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Episode 446: A disappointing but hardly disastrous result
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Much to our chagrin, the Seattle Sounders will be playing a Game 3 of their best-of-3 series after falling to FC Dallas 3-1 on Saturday. The match started off pretty much disastrously, with Dallas getting two goals inside 20 minutes.
To their credit the Sounders played much better over the next 70ish minutes until a Jackson Ragen giveaway allowed Dallas to score an ultimately meaningless insurance goal. During those 70 minutes, though, Jordan Morris looked about as good as he’s ever looked, scoring one goal, having another waved off for a questionable offside and just giving the Dallas defense all sorts of fits.
There was also a penalty not given despite VAR’s recommendation and a few other good chances for the Sounders to equalize. All in all, a disappointing but hardly disastrous result. We discuss.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsors
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to NOS Arietes. This episode of NOS Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of NOS Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounders supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:28
Speaker
A.O. Shen! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win! Here come three years through the middle to crown it the vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations. It's the Sounders' MLS Cup! Niko Liddo leaves out!
00:01:12
Speaker
Is that what you young people call twerking?
00:01:26
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Full Pull Wines, Watson's Counter, and the Sounder at Heart subscribers.
Sounders vs FC Dallas Analysis
00:01:32
Speaker
This is episode 446 and we're recording on Tuesday, November 7th, 2023. I am your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me today is my co-host, Aaron Campo, and our producer, Lickett.
00:01:43
Speaker
Well, much to our chagrin, the Seattle Sounders will be playing a Game 3 in their Best of 3 series after falling to FC Dallas 3-1 on Saturday. The match started off pretty much disastrously, with Dallas getting two goals inside 20 minutes. To their credit, the Sounders played much better over the next 70 minutes until a Jackson-Reagan giveaway allowed Dallas to score an ultimately meaningless insurance goal.
00:02:06
Speaker
During those 70 minutes though, Jordan Morris looked about as good as he's ever looked, scoring one goal, having another waved off for a questionable offside and just giving the Dallas defense all sorts of fits. There was also a penalty not given despite VAR's recommendation and a few other good chances for the Sounders to equalize.
00:02:22
Speaker
So a disappointing result, but not an entirely disastrous performance. I thought there were some encouraging elements in that loss. Am I being too naive? I don't think so. I think we kind of talked before the game about, you know, the realities of Dallas is not a bad team, even though I think the Sounders are a better team. It wouldn't be shocking for Dallas to come out with a win.
00:02:44
Speaker
I thought we were going to really get our opinion about we'd rather lose in regulation than in penalties. We're really going to get that put to the test there for a while because I really thought the Sounders were going to get that second goal. I really thought that if they got that second goal and there was enough time, I just felt like they were going to get the third goal. The momentum was definitely on their side of the pitch.
00:03:08
Speaker
I think that after that last one, the one that was cleared off the line, the last like real big chance that the Sounders had. I kind of felt like that was that like they had just they were just sort of spent. And I think that, you know, really kind of explains that last goal that was just, I think, a pretty bad mental error that an exhausted player that's kind of been under a lot of pressure all game, you know, is going to be. Yeah. And I think even beyond that, it was a situation where
00:03:37
Speaker
There wasn't really a lot of value in Reagan just kind of clearing the lines there. And so he's playing in a way that is more like, look, if we don't score here, it doesn't really matter what happens. Right. There's no aggregate coming into play.
Player Performance Highlights
00:03:53
Speaker
Right. Exactly. And the things that led to the Sounders being in that kind of a hole, I don't think are going to be repeating themselves. I don't think they're likely to spend the first 20 to 30 minutes of the game completely under siege.
00:04:06
Speaker
I don't think that Dallas is likely to get out to a big lead again. And I think the Sounders have to bolster themselves. Hey, we were in this hole and we almost came back and got a result, at least got the second goal. I think we looked like the better team. I also don't expect Newhoo to repeat
00:04:27
Speaker
that performance that he had, you know, especially for the first 20 minutes. And God, I hope not, because I think it's an oversimplification to say I knew who was the reason the Sounders lost this game. That's, you know, that's that's not fair to knew who. It's also not accurate, but sort of, you know, contradictory to that, I don't know if the Sounders lose that game if he doesn't have the 20 minutes that he had.
00:04:52
Speaker
And he was, he was pretty bad. Uh, you know, it wasn't just the, the penalty that was probably the most glaring mistake that he made that, you know, for a moment there, it looked like he might get away with, but he also had, he didn't close down Kamongo on the, on the cross that led to Ariola's goal. He really is not anywhere near him. And then he also had a foul at the top of the penalty area, kind of a bad foul that he gets the yellow card for. And then he kicks the ball away.
00:05:23
Speaker
very lucky not to get a second yellow there. And there was a time when he could have gotten a yellow on the penalty too. Yeah, I mean, I think that three or four years ago before they sort of changed the rules around Double Jeopardy, he probably does get a second yellow there. I think there's a good chance in a regular season game he does get a second yellow for taking the ball away. I think that it was so egregious that the broadcast crew who
00:05:49
Speaker
I mean, I'll take pretty much anything those guys say with a grain of salt, but the broadcast crew basically was just working under the assumption that the yellow was for kicking the ball away. Right. Because that's supposed to be an automatic yellow. Right. And it's not like he just sort of like, I mean, he booted the thing. He did. Yeah, extremely, extremely lucky. While Jess also giving all the gesticulations. Right. For a very, very obvious foul. I mean,
00:06:17
Speaker
That's the thing is when I saw that, I said, well, he can't react that way, but this has to have been a bad call. Then they show the replay and it's like, no, that's as much of a foul as it gets. Yeah. It was very bad. I guess if there's positives to be taken from this is that for as bad as the Sounders looked and they did not look good at all for those first 20 minutes.
00:06:43
Speaker
the the
00:07:02
Speaker
I want to believe there was a better angle of the call than what we got on the broadcast. But from what we saw on the broadcast, it's a board line. It's like one of those things where if the flag had stayed down, I don't know that VAR would have overturned it.
00:07:21
Speaker
I don't know. It should be said, it was a great pass by Jau Paulo. It was a really nice finish. But Morris was all over the place. He was using his speed in ways that we haven't really seen him use it this year. Even when he's looked good, he hasn't been running behind defenses as much as he was running behind in this one. I thought that was really encouraging.
00:07:46
Speaker
And I think just in general, the play was better on my rewatch than it was in the initial watch. Because at the initial watch, especially the first half, it felt really flat. But it wasn't, again, it just wasn't as bad as I thought it was. And I think there's, you know, Grant, I would definitely rather have won. But if there was, there's one game that they could afford to lose, this was it. I can live with that.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think that there was a lot to see in that game that you can feel really positive about going into the second leg. I think Jordan, for me, down the stretch has really... I don't think that this is a popular opinion and I'm not sure that this is the way the sounders are going to go with it. But what he brings to the center forward position
00:08:39
Speaker
I think in the system with the way the Sounders are playing now was really on display in this game. And it makes me wonder, is that really the best place to spend resources? Can you just go out there with him as your nine? That goal that he scored, the one that actually stood up, which
00:08:56
Speaker
was initially flagged offside and called back, which was a really shocking call because it was very obviously a back pass. And honestly, I'm not even sure he was offside, even if it wasn't a back pass. I don't think he was, which does make me a little more skeptical that the outside call. Right. But I digress. I don't want to sound like, you know, I see Dallas's coach after the first game.
00:09:19
Speaker
That goal that he scored, that stood, is a goal that there aren't that many strikers in MLS that can score. There are strikers that can do things that he can't, but that is something that very few people besides Jordan can do because he has the speed, he has the ability to read the game, he has the work rate, and he has the strength to hold off guys. And that was a nice tidy finish in a difficult angle. Yeah, it was.
00:09:44
Speaker
He totally fooled Paws on that too. Paws is clearly not expecting a near post finish and he's completely caught off. He actually covered the near post reasonably well. I just don't think he expected it to come in as hard and as tight to the post as it did. It was a really impressive play.
00:10:06
Speaker
You know, it'd be August is not a small guy. He's not a slow guy and Morris just sort of manhandle them throughout that game. And so that I think just Jordan Morris in general, but
00:10:19
Speaker
the
00:10:39
Speaker
which was against New York. He had that goal against New York where he got hurt ever since then. I think he has six goals in his last like 14 games. It's like six goals in 825 minutes or something like that.
00:10:51
Speaker
That's a goals per 90 of like 0.55 goals per 90. You put that up for a season and you're among the league leaders. He's on 14 goals across all competitions right now that ties his career high. And it ties his career high in a thousand less minutes than he needed to score that many in 2016, which was his rookie year.
00:11:14
Speaker
I mean Morris, you know, it's funny. I still keep getting kind of messages from people saying like, Oh, the senators really need to move on for Morris. It's crazy, man. It's crazy. Yeah. And I would also say that Jordan Morris is hot start. What position was he playing? He was playing center forward. Yeah. Jordan Morris down the stretch when he's turned it back on. What position was he playing? He was playing center forward. His best years before Raul got here, spent a lot of time a striker.
00:11:39
Speaker
Raul gets here. He moves out to the wing. He's a different player. He's still a very valuable player, but.
00:11:46
Speaker
He hasn't been playing, like his sort of career downturn, if you want to call it that, corresponded with him having to move out to the wing to make space for Raul. I don't think that any of this is an accident. And I understand why the Sounders did that,
Playoff Strategy Debate
00:12:00
Speaker
why they played him on the wing. And I think he contributed really well at that position. It was the right thing to do. But when you have the 2023 Raul, and not the 2018, 2019 Raul,
00:12:12
Speaker
You got to put Jordan in that spot because I just think he's, he's at his very best there, especially at this phase in his career. Well, I would, and not to get too. Look for it. Like, you know, not to get too beyond where we are, you know, we have a big game coming up on Friday and I don't want to lose out of that, but we're on that subject. I, you know, we, I don't think the Sounders have not started a season. I don't think since 2017 when Jordan was sort of the.
00:12:37
Speaker
number one choice as the number nine. In 2017, it should be said, he, you know, he struggled with injuries a lot that year. He played through a lot of injuries and he had a really bad season. He showed, I thought, if you remember, he showed a lot of positive stuff in that season, but not scoring. He had his worst scoring season. But I, at this point where we sit right now, I'm inclined to bring him back next year as the default number nine, especially if you have Leo Chu back next year as well.
00:13:06
Speaker
And maybe you sign a young number nine and sort of groom him to be the successor of that position, but I don't think you go out and get a veteran nine. I kind of want to see what Morris will do.
00:13:24
Speaker
Like, the reality is that he might not be in the national team picture too much anymore. Like, we might not be losing, you know, part of the reason his stat line is so, is not as more impressive is that he missed like six games for the gold cup.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, his rate stats this year are quite good. He's been a very good player. He's been the sounder's best attacking player. I think it's pretty reasonable to say, depending on what you consider Christian to be. And I don't think I would consider him to be an attacking player.
00:13:56
Speaker
Anyway, it doesn't matter. He's out of a very good year. And I think if you look at the rate stats, the per 90 stats versus his all up numbers, but even his all up numbers have been pretty good considering how much time he spent playing on the wing in a deeply dysfunctional attack. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Other than that, I think, you know, at first I thought that the Sounders were probably going to maybe make one or two changes to the lineup.
00:14:25
Speaker
But after rewatching the game, I'm less inclined to think that, like, I could maybe see them bringing in Lidero for Chu. But, uh, based on what Schmeister said at training today, it sounded like they're going to go with the same lineup and I, and I can't really blame them. Chu has been relatively ineffective in this series, I think, in part because Tumasi, the right back for Dallas really is able to match Chu's speed, which
00:14:52
Speaker
Once you, you match choose speed, you know, that's really his, you know, it's really his differentiating factor. But, uh, and I don't mind rolling it out there again. And if it's not working, you can bring Lidero on at halftime really, if you needed to, but yeah.
00:15:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think that there's an argument to be made that Nico is... I understand the argument for Nico, and he was quite good, I thought, against F.C. Dallas, even though in the second leg, even though I did feel like the sounders were less dominant after he came on, but I don't think that was anything to do with him. I think that was just kind of the way it shook out.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, he had he came pretty close to contributing to three goals. Yeah. You know, he had a really nice sort of flick to do who to put him in. He had a that really nice nutmeg to put Obed in on the ball that Obed slid across a roll. And then he had that free kick that led to the to the scramble in front of the goal where the ball into getting clear off the line, which was a good free kick.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah, he did. He played really well. I don't think it had that sort of at least perceived by me drop off. I don't think that had anything to do with him. I think that running out of gas. But I do think that my concern remains that can the sounders play the way they've been most effective down the stretch with him starting.
00:16:17
Speaker
And I'm just not sure that they can. I would love to be proven wrong. I would love to have Nico be the change and have that be sort of the X factor that gets them over the hump. But I don't know. I just even though Leo is not great in the first game. I. I don't see any reason to change what worked so well in that first game, I guess. Yeah, I was a little worried, frankly, that maybe he was going to overreact and pull out a tenseo because he had some he thought it was too high up the pitch and
00:16:47
Speaker
I have to admit, as someone who was not doing the game planning, when I rewatched the game, I thought Atencio actually looked pretty good. He was high up the pitch, but it felt like it was more by design. It didn't seem to me that he was getting pulled out of position, although there were maybe a couple times where he was. I like what Atencio brings still, even when he's not at his most effective.
00:17:10
Speaker
And I'm kind of glad that Schmetzer is going to stick with this lineup that has really been pretty good over the last six to 10 games. And so I don't know, I just don't think anything that happened in Dallas is grounds for overreacting, I guess is what I would say.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like the Sounders are still clearly the better team. I think they showed that in this game that they outplayed Dallas. And I don't think this was a game where the game state dictated that Dallas just kind of set back. And like the Sounders were threatening in a major way against the Dallas team who was not happy to absorb pressure. Right. And they got that goal early enough in the second half where it was like the 47th minute or something where at that point, Dallas just couldn't afford to sit on a lead. Absolutely. So.
00:18:00
Speaker
Yeah, that said, anything Dallas doing is doing like, it's funny, there's been a lot of chatter, I feel like about the Dallas press and the sounders have sort of given some of that credence. But man, yes, they've had a couple turnovers that led to chances.
00:18:18
Speaker
But I just have not seen them struggling to handle the press as much as they've had some bad turnovers against the press. Teams that press as much as Dallas does will create turnovers. It's inevitable. It's going to happen unless you completely take the air out of the ball.
00:18:36
Speaker
Or put the air back in the ball, I guess, actually. They want the sounders to do things that they're not comfortable doing. They want them to play direct and go long instead of building the way that they they're more comfortable doing. And the sounders aren't going to do that because they and they shouldn't do that. They should.
00:18:54
Speaker
Play the way that they are most effective plane. And so yeah, there's going to be some turnovers and bad spots. You have to minimize the damage from those turnovers. They did a good job of that in the first game. They didn't do as good a job of that in the second game, but if you're.
00:19:10
Speaker
Playing into what Dallas wants you to do with that press, you don't score, I think, either goal that they got in the first game. You don't score the goal Jordan scored. You don't score the goal Jordan scored that got called back. You don't create the kind of situation where Raul is getting dragged down in the box.
00:19:29
Speaker
It's just, you've got to take the good with the bad. They just need to tidy things up a little bit in the back. And I don't expect Jackson Reagan to make a pass as bad as the one he made for the third goal. I don't expect, I mean, I don't think the press had anything to do with new who.
00:19:46
Speaker
giving away that penalty. I think that, you know, that first goal new who just needs to close down and Reagan needs to not be three yards deeper than the rest of the defensive line and that's probably not a goal.
00:20:00
Speaker
So I do think, yeah, there are points in time when the Sounders have been under pressure because of Dallas' press, but I think the extent to which that was directly the contributing factor to Dallas scoring those three goals, I think is pretty wildly overstated. Yeah. So the other part of this game that I feel like we need to at least talk about a little bit is the
00:20:24
Speaker
is the penalty that was not ultimately called, but VAR had recommended for it to be a penalty. I have mixed feelings on it, but what was your take on that whole situation? I think it's a foul in the box and it's a clear penalty.
00:20:43
Speaker
I know that the argument is there's no way he's getting to that ball. I don't care. I do not care. It's a foul on the box. Maybe he's getting to that ball if he's not being held outside the box.
00:20:56
Speaker
Or maybe he's causing the goalkeeper to drop it or he's putting pressure on whatever you keeper does drop it. Right? Like, yeah, they're there. It's irrelevant. Like you can't. It is not the referee's job to say, well, if X, then Y potentially Z. So therefore it's on a penalty. It's the referee's job to say, hmm, that's a foul. It's in the box.
00:21:19
Speaker
Right. My assumption is that it's a combination. I didn't see if there was a the question was asked in the in the post game. So I don't I don't know if the referee gave an explanation. But my assumption is it's a combination of he wasn't going to get to the ball and he embellished. Yeah, I mean, they.
00:21:35
Speaker
All we know is what Brian told us, the referees told him and that they told him that that it was just a matter of they didn't feel like he was going to get to the ball or the referee didn't feel like he was going to get to the ball. And I guess just on some level, that's fair. And I guess where my mixed emotions come is I agree with you. It should be a penalty.
00:21:54
Speaker
And I don't really understand, like, I don't feel like the logic is sound for not calling it a penalty. No, it's not. Yet. I also there's part of me that isn't feeling too aggrieved because it wasn't a situation where the Sounders did a lot to earn that penalty. Right. Right. And and so it was, you know, it would have been kind of a cheap penalty. Of course, I would have taken it and I wish they had gotten it. But.
00:22:24
Speaker
I don't know. I guess. I mean, I told I know what you mean. I know what you mean. It's like it's not satisfying to think about because it's like, well, it's not like they really put themselves in a great position to earn that penalty. But right. FC valid. I mean, the new penalty was not a terrible foul in a spot where there's not a lot of danger. And I mean, I don't you know, so it's just like a foul is a foul. If it's in the box, it's a it's a penalty. And
00:22:51
Speaker
Yeah, I get the perspective of it's not something I'm going to dwell too much on because it's not like they it was this grave miscarriage of justice that undid good play like totally get that and I think it's why I'm not as pissed off about it as I probably the egregiousness of how bad the call is was because ultimately
00:23:13
Speaker
I mean, yeah, that probably wasn't that great of a chance. At the same time, a lot of penalties get called that aren't great chances. Yes. In fact, probably more that aren't great chances than that are. Yes. Yeah, it should have been penalty. I really don't understand that. I really am kind of bothered by the logical exercise they had to do, which was effectively create a standard in real time. It's not pass interference.
00:23:42
Speaker
the
00:24:04
Speaker
For me, I know that defenders a lot of the time feel like, well, it's better to give away a penalty than, you know, and hope that they miss the penalty and then give away a clear goal. But it's not like even if he doesn't have a great read and doesn't know for sure that Earl is not going to get there, it's not close enough to me that the penalty is the clear play. Like he's at full sprint at the far post. Like that's still going to be a really difficult finish, even if there's a good chance he gets there.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, just really really poor defending and I agree like I think that it's letting the defender off the hook for for a really poor Challenge and I just I feel like if you can get a penalty for Clipping somebody's heels as they are dribbling away out of the box to recycle play Mm-hmm, which we have seen given again many many times, you know Then that's a that then there's no reason that can't be a penalty as well because if the standard is
00:24:59
Speaker
Is this a goal dangerous play? The number of penalties is going to go down by like 50%. Right. Which honestly, I would be okay with that being the standard if that's what they want to universally change it to. Yeah. And somehow create some other, like an indirect free kick or something for non, of course, that's just adding more judgment calls, but whatever. Right.
00:25:23
Speaker
Anyway, it was a frustrating, it was a frustrating night and that was, you know, I think it was sort of indicative of the way that Dallas felt like they were on their heels because they were doing kind of panicky things like grabbing players in the box. Yeah, absolutely. So I don't know, I guess that all gives me hope. And honestly, if they advance out of three games,
00:25:45
Speaker
And that's a big if, you know, like they have a big task ahead of them to win this game. But there is definitely part of me that's looking at this a couple of different ways. One is if you told me the Sounders would have a chance to advance from any round of the playoffs with a home game just by winning a home game. I take those chances, right? Like I like that's that's what you sign up for. And if they can't win this one, then. You know, I guess they maybe they weren't going to do anything.
00:26:16
Speaker
But the other part of me is, is honestly saying like, if they advanced from this, they get, they have two weeks off. I'd rather have two weeks off, frankly, than three weeks off. Yeah. Yeah. It's fair. Uh, like, I don't know that it's that much of anyone's benefit. It's a benefit to not have to play a third game in the sense that you've already advanced, but I don't know that the extra week is actually good in terms of the rest.
00:26:41
Speaker
Yeah, I I don't feel like the Sounders are in a position where you've got guys that are super banged up and need, you know, read Baker Whiting, I think is the only guy that's still sort of questionable that right. But he isn't. But the extra week, I don't think is going to make it. Yeah, it's especially because I think the the hope is that he'll be ready for this for this game. Right. Exactly. Like he should be available for this game. Yeah. So I'm kind of with you. And I just the Sounders this this last game aside, the Sounders have been playing so well.
00:27:11
Speaker
Um, that I, I feel like you do definitely want to sort of try to strike where the iron is hot. I'm just looking at the numbers for this game and I did not know how significant the sounder's possession advantage. Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty significant. Yeah. And anyway, not like that matters that much, but, um, wait, that's frustrating in hindsight. Um, yeah, I am with you though. I, uh,
00:27:37
Speaker
I'd rather win at home anyway. If I felt like the sounders were going to steamroll their way through the playoffs, this game probably would have bothered me a lot more. But I just never expected that. The sounders are good but flawed in a lot of ways, team.
00:27:57
Speaker
you know, it's probably not going to be a walk in the park, but that doesn't mean that they're not capable of still getting to a final. Right, right. Again, and none of this means that losing this game was preferable, but it just speaks to I think the idea that, you know, this is kind of the way it was going. And I'm not totally blown away by the fact that the centers have to win. But, hey, again, you have a winnable home game against the seventh best team in the West. Just take care of business.
00:28:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Just take care of it. All right. Well, I think we're going to take a break. We're going to come back. I want to talk about this Phil Neville thing. I realize it's gauche to talk about the timbers on this podcast, but
Phil Neville's Controversial Hiring
00:28:40
Speaker
I was laughing about the whole situation all day today. Yeah. And I just want to talk about a little bit more. We'll probably talk about a few other things you're listening to. No audio.
00:28:54
Speaker
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00:29:23
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Arigatas. So a few things going on in the soccer world of MLS, the MLS world.
00:29:32
Speaker
The one that's nearest and dearest I think to our hearts, Phil Neville was hired as the new head coach of the Timbers and the news leaked over the weekend and Timbers army basically released a statement before it was even before it was even official basically saying this is a horrible hire and they looked at a bunch of his tweets from 2011 where he said some really frankly horrible things I think
00:30:02
Speaker
They were so horrible that I have to believe they were like ingest, but these horrible things about women in the workplace and all these kinds of things. And he's apologized for it, but... Kinda. Yeah, I mean, he's acknowledged they were really bad statements, I guess. Apologize, maybe apologize is the wrong word. But yeah, you're right. He is acknowledged they were really bad taste.
00:30:29
Speaker
And in any way, he gets hired. They announced it hiring on Monday. And the thing that just brought it home for me is they put out all this social media content around it. The one that I just could not let go of was this. They did this video that I guess is based on like a TikTok trend where it's like they
00:30:50
Speaker
play around with the foreground and the background and they make it look like you're jumping over a building kind of thing, but they did it in the most awkward way possible where
00:31:02
Speaker
They catch him talking to the cameraman saying, ready? And then he's awkwardly stepping over this thing, and then they're holding the camera, and so it's not lining up properly. And it's just a complete mess of a video that is totally nonsensical. Everything about it is poorly executed on every way. It's nonsensical. It doesn't have any relation to what's going on, the announcement itself.
00:31:30
Speaker
And people are already bad. That's the like, underscoring all this people already are mad. And it's not just that he had these questionable, he's these very bad tweets in 2011. It's that his coaching record is absolutely not impressive at all. No, it's when you look at his career record, I think he's he's got something like 48%, one percentage 44%.
00:31:56
Speaker
Yeah, and worse and a lot like the bulk of that is with England women where he won. Oh, okay. Maybe you're including England. Yeah. Yeah. So you want a little over half of his games with England women. He talks about how he turned the program around. He takes all this credit the same group of players.
00:32:17
Speaker
are now under their new coach, she's won like 75% of her games. They're one of the best teams in the world. So it's like- And by the way, he got fired from that job. Right, he did. And it's like, you're taking credit for by all appearances based on what's happened since you left, dramatically underachieving with that number of players. And like, you know, the Miami situation,
00:32:46
Speaker
The cards were a little bit stacked against him. That team was in pretty rough shape, but nothing he did was like, sometimes you see a coach who doesn't have a great group of players, but you can see what they're trying to do. And you feel like, man, you know, if this guy had the horses or when this team matures a little, like you can see what's going on. You can see the direction.
00:33:10
Speaker
I never saw that within our Miami. It's just like, yeah, we're just going to go out there and like you can just tell some coaches just are out of their depth no matter where they are because they don't have any real ideas other than, well, I was good at this. So when I was playing, right? So if they just listen to me, they'll be fine. And that just really does kind of seem like his whole thing.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just it. I thought what was funny about the whole situation is that, you know, it would be one thing if he had done like if the timbers were just a random organization and they hired a guy that, you know, some people dug up some questionable things that he said. And. Ultimately, though, you look at his resume and you go, yeah,
00:34:01
Speaker
But we want this guy's worth. It's about what he's going to bring on the field, right? Right. You're willing to overlook some of this other stuff. But the Timbers have already like lost all the trust of their fans. Yeah. Over the course of several years of mishandling all sorts of situations. And then they just kind of go into this as if they are dealing from a
00:34:28
Speaker
a place of respect with their fans. And it's just a total mess. I mean, who knows? It's entirely possible that Phil Neville could end up being a decent coach for them. I do think it's very funny, though, that they brought on this guy with all his baggage who has a worse winning percentage than John Spencer.
00:34:50
Speaker
the guy they fired in here too. Even if this hire ends up working out somehow, and I'm just really skeptical that that's going to be the case, it's a crazy decision. They will be so lucky if it ends up working out. And it just really does feel like merit just stopped
00:35:12
Speaker
really giving a shit. He just does not seem invested at all. It's just like, oh, this is a famous guy. I used to watch him. Let's give him the job. I don't know, man, which is great for me, but also a little bit depressing. I hope it's a total disaster and everyone involved loses their jobs. It would be great.
00:35:34
Speaker
So elsewhere in MLS, there were a couple of situations with referees that got kind
Matt Miazga's Suspension Incident
00:35:40
Speaker
of dicey, I think is maybe a good way of putting it. So if you were watching the
00:35:47
Speaker
FC Cincinnati New York Red Bulls game, you may have noticed that Matt Miyazaga got a second yellow card during the shootout when he did the like the heart hands and kisses to the Red Bull supporters. And he claims, you know, he grew up playing for Red Bulls Academy. And these are maybe people that
00:36:10
Speaker
theoretically, he feels some kinship with. But knowing Matt Miyazaga, that does not seem to be what the motivation most likely was. This is a guy who... There's no way. Right. This is a guy who has 11 yellow cards this year, only three of which are for soccer stuff. Yeah. He is a troll. And I don't think... Maybe it was an overreaction for the referee to show him that yellow card.
00:36:37
Speaker
But it is funny that that yellow card now means that he's suspended because it was his third yellow card of the round. He's now suspended for the conference semifinals. But then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he apparently went to the referee's locker room and insisted on having a conversation with the referees. Now, the way that it was told through the PSRA, which is the referee union, he barged in and had to be pulled out by security.
00:37:06
Speaker
There's another version of events where he kind of did not necessarily barge in and he was walked away by a member of the comm staff.
00:37:15
Speaker
Either way, what are you doing? You do not go to the referee's locker room under no circumstances. Should you go to the referee's locker room? What good can possibly come of that? It's some unhinged stuff, man. The explanation, it's like, oh, you know, I used to play for Red Bulls and that was a genuine expression of my... Do not insult my intelligence kind of... Come on, man. If he were...
00:37:42
Speaker
Honestly, I don't know if there's a single player in the world who if they did that in that specific situation, like that is not the time you salute the fans of your boyhood club after you eliminated them. Yeah, that's just not I don't believe you for a second, right? But especially with his track record, right? And.
00:38:02
Speaker
I can't believe that I'm siding with the referees over a player, but I, I think that their version of events is probably a lot closer to the truth. I just. Yeah. And it's like, you can, I think there's the thing is, is that you can take issue with the yellow card and whatever else, but there's just no, there's no excuse. And it doesn't even matter what hat, like he should not be in locker room. I honestly think that it would be perfectly reasonable to suspend him for the rest of the postseason.
00:38:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. They're just, whatever you think about the standards for your behavior, like the standards of behavior for interacting with referees. And there are some FC Cincinnati fans online who have some really extremely normal opinions about what those standards should be that we're out in full force today.
00:38:54
Speaker
Uh, it's pretty well established that you can do something like that. Yeah. And, uh, it's just, uh, I mean, I remember Pat Noonan and his, his post-game press conference was like, Oh, you know, Matt knows better. Are you sure, bro? Are you sure that he knows better? Cause there's like every appearance that he does not know better at all. And then he also kind of casually mentioned that they, they might appeal. And I, and I'm just like, what grounds are you going to appeal on? Right. Yeah. Because that's, that's not a like.
00:39:23
Speaker
like what what like he like he shouldn't have been like I don't know it just yeah I don't even know what the appeal like what on what grounds are you appealing this like that you don't appeal like you can't appeal yellow cards yeah yeah yeah and I think especially after he tried to fight the referees that maybe
00:39:41
Speaker
You're just not going to go too well. Like maybe just shut up. Just take your punishment. Yeah. It's funny too. Cause it's like, he's a really important player for them. Yeah. I mean, he might win defender of the year, not that he deserves it, but no, but I mean, that's, you know, that's a team whose defenses is good, not like elite.
00:40:01
Speaker
Um, but missing, I mean, he's a big piece of that defense. Oh yeah. They're pretty ordinary without them. So it could really end up biting them. It would be very funny. It would be funny. So the other referee situation was another one where on some level you can understand why
Sartini's Reaction to Referee Decisions
00:40:20
Speaker
everyone was mad. Uh, so Tim Ford was the referee in Vancouver on the Vancouver LAFC game. He called a very questionable penalty that
00:40:30
Speaker
that was the only goal in the game that ultimately got Vancouver eliminated. And then on the, like, basically the last play of the game, he essentially screened a Whitecaps player that allowed LAFC to go on a break. They score. VAR points out that
00:40:52
Speaker
it was offside, it gets overturned, whatever. But Vani Sartini just absolutely loses his mind and yelling and screaming. He's walking off the field and kicking the ad board, doing all this kind of stuff. And everyone's loving it. And then the postgame, in the postgame press conference, he gives what I fully trust was a completely ingest, trying to make light of himself comment about
00:41:21
Speaker
you know, it would be something what he's do you remember exactly what he said? I don't remember exactly. But it was basically along the lines of like, man, I really hope Tim Ford isn't found floating face down in a creek tonight, because I'll be the prime suspect something. Right? Yeah, it was exactly something like that. And it's like, I get it. You're, you're trying to make fun of yourself.
00:41:43
Speaker
you're trying to say how mad you were, but this is such an inappropriate way to joke about a referee. And again, PSRA came out and saying like, what the fuck are you doing? So it's such a funny thing to say that I, I think that
00:42:00
Speaker
I think there's a really good chance that this is a cultural, like, lost in translation kind of thing. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, I believe that. And I like Vanny a lot. So I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But you can't say that. It's a really funny thing to say. Like, it's almost like there are politicians that I think are abhorrent, but they say really funny things. And it's like, look, you can't say that, but you did. And it's really funny that you said that. And this is kind of a similar thing where it's like,
00:42:30
Speaker
There's you should probably be suspended. You should definitely be fined, you know, but it's very funny. It's a very funny thing to say. So I appreciate it, even though I can't endorse it. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess this is all just sort of a reminder that referees make mistakes. Yeah. They are sometimes not particularly good at their job.
00:42:57
Speaker
But I think we have to sort of let go of this idea that referees are purposefully making mistakes or calling things against your team. There was also a lot of people in the Sounders game really worked up about the AR who called Morris offside both times on the goal that he did score and the one that got waved off.
00:43:24
Speaker
And yes, that he she did it twice in the span of like seven minutes does imply like, she really didn't just feel like she really didn't want Jordan to score goals in this game. Right. But I don't think that's what's going on here. I don't think so. I think you've got to be smart enough as a sports fan to recognize. I think that in the moment, pretty much whatever you want to say is right. Like, whatever. It's just consciousness. I do it too.
00:43:49
Speaker
But people who hold these weird grudges afterwards, that's where it gets weird because it's just like, what about Jordan Morris do you think this AR is so pissed off about? What about Matt Miasga do you think Pro got together and decided? Because there are people who straight up think there is a conspiracy against Matt Miasga specifically
00:44:13
Speaker
What, what is it about him? Is it all of the stuff he does that's against the rules? And what's the thing is, is it's like, well, people will be like, well, you know, the referees don't like this player because, you know, he gets under their skin and it's like, Oh, you mean cause he breaks cause he does things that are like against the rules. So they're more, maybe he should stop doing those things. Right. Uh, it's very, it's a very funny way. It's a very like middle school way of thinking about things. Cause it's just like, you're not, you're not that special. And no.
00:44:43
Speaker
MLS refs are, I think of all the leagues in the world, the standard between refereeing and play on field is like most in line in MLS. Like Premier League level play is super good. Refs are awful. The gap is easily the biggest in England. Yeah. And, you know, like.
00:45:08
Speaker
unless it's pretty good refs, pretty good standard of play. Yeah. We don't have the best refs, but I would say we probably have refs that are relatively speaking closer to the top 10 in the world than our league is. I think anybody who watched
00:45:28
Speaker
MLS in 2011, 2012, you know, the back end them days and still has the opinion that the referees are atrociously bad. Just probably hates referees as a concept, which is, you know, fair enough, but.
00:45:45
Speaker
We have to encourage more referees. That's the only way we get better. People have to want to be referees. I have definitely come around on the belief. It's one that I used to resist pretty strongly, but I think it's right because we've seen what VAR actually looks like. I think MLS does a much better job with VAR than most leagues.
00:46:11
Speaker
I have come around to the idea that it's just like, look, the referees aren't going to get every call. If it's close enough, 98% of even of bad calls are not that big a deal because it's close enough. Yeah, I get super pissed about those. Get super pissed when Rova gets pulled down in the box and doesn't get the penalty call.
00:46:38
Speaker
Ultimately, most calls that go the wrong way have just such a marginal effect on the game, realistically, and it's part of the fabric of the game. Because when you do something like Var, where the whole goal of it is to remove the human element,
00:46:55
Speaker
In a lot of ways, it can make it even worse because then you have these things that are inherently judgment calls that you're trying to quantify and it leads to all sorts of big messes. Just like that human error or human standard of judgment of interpretation is just kind of part of the game. It's much easier for me to deal with like, well, that's just a judgment call. That's a 50-50 call. Then something like that var call or var no call in this case, where that seems like a very clear penalty,
00:47:24
Speaker
the ref gets another look at it on the, you know, on the recommendation of the bar official and says, nah, that's more difficult for me. Yeah. I mean, I can, I can definitely appreciate it. I still feel like I rest easier with bar. I do too. And especially no loss. Yeah.
00:47:42
Speaker
Yeah, like a good example of that was the RSL Houston game where Zack McMath was originally called off his line in the shootout when he stopped to attempted Penenka, where he just held his ground and made the save. And they called him off his line and then VAR or whatever we're going to call it, said he was still on his line. Yeah. Which, you know, like for every
00:48:12
Speaker
call that we don't get the satisfaction of it going the way we want. There are certain calls like that that are really cut and dry, where I'm like, no, this is exactly the reason we need this technology. Yeah. And I think that that is like, that's the use case for it. That's the selling point. And what I appreciate about MLS is that they tend to keep it to those calls. They don't tend to do all of this weird
00:48:41
Speaker
like relitigating the entire like nitpicking things to a degree that you know, it's like similar to how
00:48:51
Speaker
We're talking about milliseconds, or milliseconds, millimeters for the difference between a first down and not a first down in football. And that's just measured with some guys with a chain who have all the potential in the world to lose track of where they're at, or it's all spotted by the eye. But then it's like, wherever that chain is, now we've got to get 800 cameras out. It's just this false precision. And I think MLS generally does a pretty good job of avoiding it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would agree with you there.
00:49:21
Speaker
Well, that's probably a good place to call this a show. Thank you to all the Sounder at Heart subscribers that are making this possible. Thank you to Fullpool Wines. Thank you to Watson's Counter. Also, Watson's Counter for hosting that watch party. It was a lot of fun. Sorry you couldn't make it earn, but we had a good turnout. 45-ish or so people came. It was a good time, so we couldn't have a better result, but, you know, can't control those things. Also, congratulations to OL Rain
00:49:51
Speaker
We're qualifying for the NWSL championship game. Hopefully we can convince our friends over at Coffee and Valkyries to throw together a podcast and they can dig into that one. But that's pretty cool. This is their first championship game since 2015. They're going to be attempting to win the NWSL championship for the first time.
00:50:13
Speaker
which would be a very fitting end to Megan Rapinoe's time. Yep. Or her career. But with all that said, I'm Jeremiah Shan, signing off for Aaron Campo and Lick It. This is No Study Yetis. Remember, you will never yacht alone.
00:51:24
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!