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Inspiration & Road Bocks with Tyler Pate
25 Plays2 months ago
Inspiration isn’t always easy to find—but sometimes, all it takes is a conversation with the right creative mind to spark your motivation.
In this episode of The Creative Milestone, we sit down with Tyler Pate, an Art Director at Nickelodeon Consumer Products and freelance illustrator. Tyler shares his journey as a designer, offering insights on how he built a strong portfolio by mastering vector illustration and embracing creative roadblocks.
Whether you're feeling stuck in your creative process or looking for new ways to reignite your motivation, Tyler’s advice is sure to leave you inspired.
Follow @creativemilestone and our guest @thecreativepain for more insights into the world of illustration and design!
Follow along through Tyler's Dribble: https://dribbble.com/thecreativepain
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Transcript
Introduction to The Creative Milestone Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome to The Creative Milestone, the podcast where graphic designers, illustrators, and artists share their experience and advice for new creatives to reach new milestones. I'm Matthew Chakrow.
Matthew Chakrow's Background and Motivation
00:00:14
Speaker
I've been practicing graphic design for seven years now, but only recently joined the creative industry two years ago. For a few years there, I struggled to enter the industry. But the kindness and advice of others helped to start my career.
00:00:27
Speaker
Now, as the creative job market has changed and gotten it harder and harder to enter, I wanted to use this platform to help new creatives that are looking for guidance in these trying times. In these first four episodes, I'll be sitting down with the mentors that helped me find my footing.
00:00:41
Speaker
They'll be sharing with you the advice they gave me that changed my life. Today's guest is a pillar to the Vector Illustration community and is a creative eye aspire to be like one day. He's as fantastic an illustrator as he is a friend.
00:00:53
Speaker
I'll let my guests introduce themselves.
Introducing Tyler Pate and His Career Journey
00:00:56
Speaker
Oh, thanks, man. My name is Tyler Pate. I'm a graphic designer, art director, illustrator. It's kind of one of many hats.
00:01:04
Speaker
ah But for the, I guess now for the past 10 years, I've been really designing and illustrating creating ah my own brand, which has really spawned across agency worlds, studios, freelance.
00:01:18
Speaker
And then today I'm an art director at Nickelodeon for consumer products. We kind of both mentioned the creative
What is 'Creative Pain'?
00:01:25
Speaker
pain. Can you explain to the audience what that is and how you maybe came up with it?
00:01:29
Speaker
It's one of those projects that definitely found me in some weird way. it sounds like a cliche, but i I started out early on just creating work and series and illustrations for fun. And upon doing that, the problem solving part of it,
00:01:44
Speaker
i I realized that there was something about starting a project, fleshing out midways through and having all these insecurities and fears of what am I doing, giving up plenty of projects I did give up.
00:01:57
Speaker
And then communicating that with my peers to realize that I wasn't the only one going through these mental blocks or fear of judgment or or whatever it is, putting yourself out there as an artist or designer, it really brings.
00:02:11
Speaker
And from those kinds of conversations, I realized that this is a feeling and and a thing that's not that uncommon and came to to be what is called a creative pain.
00:02:24
Speaker
So, you know, looking at that and and pursuing it more as a brand of my own, it really opened a lot of doors of, you know being more vocal about the the creative process.
00:02:35
Speaker
And it's given me plenty of ways of talking about it, but also illustrating it in a sense of always growing and always creating to to better your your craft.
Education and Influence on Tyler's Career
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:46
Speaker
So Creative Pain, how did you get started in your creative journey? i did go to school early on. So I went small university out of South Carolina.
00:02:59
Speaker
It's Francis Marion University, more known for ah nursing or business than anything art. But I did get a visual communications degree there, which really gave me the idea of, okay, this is, this is a career if you want to pursue it in a way like that. And I always wanted to do art. I knew that fairly, fairly right out of school or high school that is. And, um that showed me that fairly quickly that everything you do outside of a classroom or outside of nine to five is really where you are going to make a mark. And,
00:03:35
Speaker
It set me up for that. So jumping from there to working in a small design agency for about five years really honed my skills in a professional setting, which um you know led to eventually freelancing.
00:03:50
Speaker
So it's it's really interesting thinking back on it because there's a lot to it. It's a lot of time. It flies by.
Resilience and Inspiration from Family
00:03:58
Speaker
As you kind of mentioned, you didn't really go to a specific design school. You went to a school to get a degree in design. Yeah.
00:04:05
Speaker
Yeah. Did you feel like you were prepared for the industry when you graduated? and i felt like it gave me enough to pursue a direction, but I don't know if I ever felt like I've checked all of the boxes and I've got everything ready. It was just always a work in progress. was for sure I was doing above and beyond everything.
00:04:24
Speaker
most of my peers, but it was just as, oh, I hear it's so hard to get a job. So I got to really do this even more than the person next to me or, you know, I got to really, you know, make sure I'm i'm ready.
00:04:35
Speaker
So that, I think that's just how I'm wired. So I don't know if that was school that did that because even in school, i'm my biggest critique. I think I am today still my biggest critique.
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah, I just pursued a school that was affordable. That was kind of my whole initiative. yeah yeah I'm the first in my family to go to college. So it was more of a bigger deal of making that happen for my own well-being. so And correct me if I'm wrong, you're also the first creative in your family, correct?
00:05:02
Speaker
Professionally, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where do you think that resiliency in design came from? It's interesting. I don't know... if it was... design, but i can't I can't pin it to where I think focus and persistence comes from from me. I think my dad was was very much that with what he does. He's in the car repair business and fixes a car that is completely total and all of a sudden it's brand new in a couple of weeks. it takes a lot to do that. I didn't pick up that craft, so to speak, but I saw what time and effort and just honing over years and years a craft can do. And I think I see that as
00:05:42
Speaker
okay, I got to take this serious. I got to really find what I love most about this and try to make the most out of it. Because you know early age, I realized that time flies by and I was always super paranoid about that. It's like, got to make the most of what I'm doing. It's just putting everything into the craft, which now it's fun to look back on because it's like, all right, haveve time I've put some some hours in.
00:06:04
Speaker
Now, where do I go with
Agency Experience and Skill Development
00:06:05
Speaker
it? Yeah. Speaking of those hours, after you graduated college, you went straight into an advertising agency, correct? Yeah. And then you spent your your time there really honing your skills. What was that experience like?
00:06:16
Speaker
Man, it was you know prior to that, had minimum job experience in general. So to ride out of school, go to negotiating what your career could be and then what your salary is and then what do you do when you're not given a curriculum or you're not giving these milestones, you know, like you would in school. I didn't get a lot of that from from where I was, but what I got was the flexibility of if you're interested in something, you know, oh, Tyler, come in here and do this piece for us or oh, you're eager to do more illustrations.
00:06:49
Speaker
So I would just proactively do that. at this job. So I was, I was very vocal on that. I think it taught me to be that at the same time, because I felt like it was what I had to do. The job really got me across the board because it was mostly website design. That's one thing that I don't care too much to touch again is is website design.
00:07:08
Speaker
really taught me what I didn't, want to pursue a long career for. But I did it for five years. And from that five years, it was websites to branding to a little bit of illustration. and then that's where I honed it the most. I was like, I really like the illustrating more than I do any of this other design aesthetic. It gave me the time and freedom.
00:07:25
Speaker
It took you a few years to find the niche that you're most well known for today. Yeah, yeah, for sure. yeah it's It's funny, man. Here's a little tangent about it is I remember moments where I was obviously clocking in nine to five for the day job. But after five or six or when I'm done with my day work, I would immediately roll into these little personal projects, whether that's an idea, a sketch. it's like It'd be cool if I can figure out how to illustrate that.
00:07:53
Speaker
Our or here's a logo idea, but I'll never have that client come to me to ask for that very specific logo idea. So I'll just make it. and So that yeah that started the the whole chain reaction of, all right, well, just what do you do with the rest of your time? and this has always been my dream job. I would illustrate if I wasn't getting paid.
00:08:11
Speaker
So I slowly merged a gap of what is a hobby and then what is your career? And I think that was pretty huge for me early on. How did kind of melding those two together maybe change your outlook on or more specifically confidence in yourself and your body of
Advice on Building Confidence in Design
00:08:26
Speaker
work?
00:08:26
Speaker
Well, you definitely start to output a lot more. And then when you see repetition work in your favor, it builds confidence no matter what. I've noticed for sure I'm i'm a completely different designer than I was 10 years ago. And that's mostly mentally. and I had all the same tools. That's the funny part.
00:08:46
Speaker
I had all the same tools I do today. I got my first Wacom Cintiq, which is the one I draw on today. back in 2015. So to think about that is is pretty wild.
00:08:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Just to put it to words, what is some advice you could give to new designers that are lacking confidence in their work and skill? let's Let's slim it down. Let's say focus on the ideas. I think that's where you're going to get the most bang for your buck.
00:09:13
Speaker
Because creating the things, that comes with time. I used to freak out whenever I sat at the desk early on because I would sit at and look at my sketch or idea book and well, how do I make that?
00:09:24
Speaker
And then I would lose track of focus because of that and then derails me rather than just doing it. But the more you do it, the more you'll feel comfortable with the tools that that comes and changes. But the ideas and thinking about mood boards and thinking about peer revisions and and really showing your network in those ways is probably key.
00:09:44
Speaker
Practice, practice, practice, yeah practice. Practice, repetition, repetition, repetition. Make a rap out of that one. And as we're talking about your old works, I figured this would be a great time to actually take a look back and see where you were and what your skill was like during those days in that design agency. Do you mind?
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think that'd be really fun. Especially with with when I started out, that was 2014. So... so Quite a while ago. I've curated the bottom of your portfolio as opposed to the top. Everybody, if you want to look at Tyler's work now, his most recent work, you can just go to his Instagram. Yeah. Which we will link below and at the end of this podcast.
00:10:26
Speaker
So can you talk me through what are the first thoughts that you have and what you're reacting to here? Man, I definitely used a lot of stroked line weights. Yeah. I think all of my illustrations and icons look very similar. And and I could just tell the complexity is a lot more simple than what I do today.
00:10:46
Speaker
But it's interesting because I'm playing with series and and again, repetition. I think there's a lot of... Having one idea and how far can I flesh that out? Can I do 10 of those or can I do 15, 20 of those?
00:10:59
Speaker
And i did that with, there's at least three series that you pointed out on these. And I mean, just to talk through if you want, it's having simple ideas, thinking of famous hats.
00:11:10
Speaker
That was one of these projects that I did on on my own time. So I started thinking about what are some iconic hats that could be recognizable without the character in them.
00:11:21
Speaker
So that was the... the root of this series. And I wanted to illustrate them all in a similar style in Adobe Illustrator, which I was trying to get better at.
00:11:32
Speaker
So I, I did that and I think I got maybe 25 to 30 before I, I slowed down, but it's, it's one of those where It was keeping me inspired and I was having so much fun with it. It's like, oh, what's the next one?
00:11:47
Speaker
And then my peers were saying, oh, have you done this hat? What about Mickey Mouse's hat? What about SpongeBob? And I'm like, oh, that's a great one. And then now I've got more ideas that I'm eager to get to. So I had a full tank of of inspiration, which I think is is definitely key to so any progression that I've had. It's just finding the fun in it and the joy
Early Projects and Peer Feedback
00:12:06
Speaker
and and really honing into it.
00:12:08
Speaker
which I've done it a couple times. You know, what's funny is for these that we're looking at, it's like a life preserver and lead bound parachute. Funny enough, that series, i only did about three or four illustrations where I'm creating these puns of like useless objects or products that make no sense to have.
00:12:24
Speaker
But what would that look like as an illustration? So I did those right outside of my senior year in college. And that's probably the first time where I'm taking serious illustrations to a point where it's a poster or it's a graphic. It's not just ah an icon series or something.
00:12:43
Speaker
It's rendered. Yeah. And it's it's like, that's the focal point. It is the the final piece. I printed those on postcards, which funny enough. And around that time, I was volunteering at a design conference in South Carolina that was called Converge. By the way, any up and coming designer, volunteer at conferences because you can typically get free tickets. And that's totally what I was doing. And and you don't have to to pay the crazy price tags.
00:13:08
Speaker
So I was volunteering. And then while i was volunteering, i was just essentially peddling my work out to all the speakers and keynote speakers saying, hey, what do you think about this? Could you critique it? And I actually showed those to one of my favorite illustrators today, James White, which he's an incredible illustrator.
00:13:27
Speaker
And I met him for the first time there and showed him that. And it was one of those humbling moments that I told him this story last year when I saw him again for the first time since then. And he doesn't remember the story, but I remembered every single minute of it. And that shows you how impactful it was.
00:13:44
Speaker
And essentially I was like, could you critique this? And he's like, dude, this is so rad. Like, what are you doing? What is this for? And I was like, it was just for me, like just for a promotion. And I was like, what should I do different? He's like, just keep doing this, like keep doing more of these. Like this is the stuff that is going to catch the eye, not, not the client work.
00:14:01
Speaker
If you continue to do the personal stuff. yeah And I mean, I would say that advice today. It's true. Looking at our limited selection here. Are there any specific skills or techniques that you struggled with early on that you can maybe point out in any of these? You mentioned stroke weights in your early work, but is there anything else?
00:14:19
Speaker
I think I had a hard time with color, to be honest. My color palettes feels a bit muted and there's just not enough contrast in some of these. I feel like if I was to redo it, I would definitely adjust the color a bit and probably just add some more dimension. Everything's just so flat, which I think there's a there's a time and space for it, but I obviously wasn't exploring it.
00:14:43
Speaker
I probably should have dove into it sooner. Tyler, your work coming out of college is... Amazing. it's It's so strange to kind of look back and see where you used to be and where you are now, because not everybody can illustrate in, funnily enough, Adobe Illustrator.
00:15:00
Speaker
So this is a very sought after skill. And to to think that you had this skill, what feels like locked and loaded out of college, it's really cool to see. Thanks. You know, funny enough, I'd never felt that even then. I've vividly remember those those times.
00:15:15
Speaker
I didn't have the confidence for sure. Looking back, that's what makes us green. That's the thing that you don't notice about yourself and your work that give it some time and you can look back on it and you're like, oh, if I had maybe this little piece of advice to hear, i would have said this to myself because it was never enough. And I think that ironically enough is what kept pushing me because it's like, oh, it's not what I'm looking at is what I think is mastery or like really creating great illustration or design.
00:15:43
Speaker
and that's constantly what I was doing. I was just seeing what's in the world and just consuming it as much as I can as living and breathing every bit of it. It doesn't have to be from necessarily this block of your early works, but it can just kind of be more broad. If you were to redo any of your old projects now to fit what you are trying to accomplish within the world of creativity, design, and illustration, is there an old project you'd revisit?
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, ironically enough, I've been kicking around the idea of redoing a lot of the original creative pain illustrations because I started taking that very serious as a brand 2017.
00:16:23
Speaker
twenty seventeen and then that's when i got on this regimen of every week I was doing one illustration. And I typically only had about three days like my weekends to do those.
00:16:35
Speaker
It was just all day, just usually about nine hours of illustrating. But I'd love to go back to some of those ideas because I think there's a lot of fun ideas I still look back on. i'm like oh, that's a really good idea. And I think it just needs to have the new filter of the brand on it and definitely approach my perspectives.
00:16:53
Speaker
And I mean, literal perspectives of my dimensions a bit differently. You know your dimensions, I think, in Illustrator better than anybody else. Yeah. So did you feel back then when you were posting these and letting these sit on the internet, did you feel them to be good enough at that time?
00:17:11
Speaker
ah Yes or no. I mean, there's for sure things where I would create it and I didn't really have much meaning behind it. I think that's where it falls flat.
00:17:22
Speaker
But I was still putting it out there. It's like oh, look at this cool little thing I just made. like right. You know it's like two hours or I'm illustrating a pencil, but I'll put a whole bunch of vector shading in there. And it's like, all right, it's a post as a thing.
00:17:34
Speaker
And I got on that regimen of the more people that see this, the more potential opportunities to see what I can do. And that started growing my social media as more of a portfolio. That's kind of how that snowballed.
00:17:45
Speaker
Is there anything you can say to the new designer that is trying to get over that hurdle of the quote unquote, not good enough?
Ambition and Acceptance of Ambiguity in Design
00:17:52
Speaker
You're never good enough. I mean, if you're really progressing, i mean, just get over that. You're never, you're never there. I'm not there.
00:18:02
Speaker
i'm I'll never be there too. I mean, i yeah I think that's where ambition comes in. You want to get there eventually, yeah but part of what makes this great is that we're on our way there.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah. And to add to that, the one thing is it's okay if it's ambiguous. I think that's where I'm okay with this idea of what is perfection. It's ambiguous to me. and there There's some days where it feels like, oh, there it is.
00:18:26
Speaker
And then there's other days where it's like, can't figure it out. I don't know. But that still drives me in a weird conundrum, I guess. There's plenty of things that I want to explore. It's just like traveling for me. It's oh, there's so many places. Where would you want to go? It's like, well, I've already been here. I don't need to go back there. I want to go over here somewhere new. And I'm like that with my work and styles and ideas. And there's a lot out there. There's a lot of really cool, inspiring designers.
00:18:49
Speaker
You kind of mentioned wanting to take on different projects and wanting to take on different styles and essentially traveling in design in different places. How do you do that but still retain your specific creative pain style?
00:19:02
Speaker
I think recently i try to get the narrative to be the same. Because the narrative from my viewpoint on the creative paint, it's usually the language could be that connecting point, whether that's talking about breaking through a problem or a hurdle, or maybe it's some sort of encouragement of what we all kind of feel as a creative. But visually, I think it's a color palette. Getting back to color, focusing on color, and it's funny because there was ah i guess there was a moment where I was like I need to focus and get better at color. Because I've done that with typography a few times where it's like, oh, I need to get better at type.
00:19:35
Speaker
I need to do more type. How do I make that creative pain focused? And then that's kind of how those gears turn for me. Yeah, exactly. Like, let's create cool type. Yeah, i'm i'm I'm holding up his cool popsicle design you can see on his Instagram and on Adobe promotional material.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's exactly that's exactly one of those. i think I did that maybe two years ago. Well, I did it on a live stream with Adobe, but it started with that year. its like I need to get better at utilizing custom type and focusing on that rather than the things that I'm constantly doing, like the illustration styles of the creative fans. Like, oh, let's...
00:20:12
Speaker
Let's focus it more on typography. And then we turn that into an illustration with the same narrative. Kind of, again, wrapping up, talking about your earlier career, you're trying to see Illustrator or Sketchbook every day to make sure that you're improving. What does that look like now for you? You have a full-time job. You are always doing freelance and you are always still making artwork for the creative pain.
00:20:33
Speaker
what is What does that regiment look like now? It comes in waves. I think it's worth emphasizing that it's not... constant. It's not every single day. It sometimes looks like that. And there's usually things where it's lower lifts and then there's higher lifts of creating the illustration. The lower lift is maybe making a ah process video of it or some sort of form of content for social media. It's waves of that. But whenever I get on a low where things are definitely too busy at work or freelance freelancer wherever that time is going, there's a shift.
00:21:08
Speaker
um I'm not generating more illustrations. I'm not generating more creative pain stuff. So I'll usually dive back into older stuff and see if there's something I can pull from it that is still enough detail to emphasize on.
00:21:24
Speaker
reimagine, throw it in a different color palette, throw it in a mock-up, throw it in a enamel pen mock-up, but yet it came from a little icon that was on an illustration. It's like thinking like that is where I've been really Honing it takes a lot of time and mental, I guess, capacity sometimes, you know, burnout happens.
00:21:43
Speaker
I'm going through it right now, which that right there is a beacon of, oh, I've been here. um know what this is like. I go through it a couple of times a year and it's just, all right, we got to get, we got to get the things that we have to get done. We got, we've got a job where people are relying on me to get things done.
00:21:59
Speaker
I'm only going to think about that. All the other stuff has to get secondary or get shelved for a while while we we get the things that we need to get done. and But after that, when I get the little bit of energy of, oh, here's a sketch that I've been noodling on for couple weeks,
00:22:13
Speaker
I think I've been visualizing it for a few days now. Let's go jump in Illustrator and we'll we'll knock it out in 30 minutes or an hour if it if it's a smaller one, but it's weighing it back and forth.
00:22:24
Speaker
Wow, that's thats please and really, truly an amazing answer. So kind of talking about those creative blocks and ideating and waiting them out, is there anything in your regiment that you maybe practice in order to get over those creative blocks?
00:22:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah. there's There's two waves of that. I'm horrible at short answers, by the way, if you if you could tell. I'm totally okay with that, Tyler. Please. The one answer I would say is if I'm on a timeline, so usually if it's actual project or it's something that I'm doing on on the job, You have, to or at least I have to flip a switch and realize if I'm struggling with creating something and figuring out what the problem is, getting back to a mood board or getting back to inspiration as quick as possible. And usually that's something that you can build. For me, I've gotten to where it's almost autopilot, like finding explorations and pulling them into boards and usually honing those where you could see a ah through line.
00:23:21
Speaker
And that's our direction. So if I remember struggling, um I'll just jump back to that and I've got to figure out all right, what? What do I need to actually create? Not everything at once, but what is the one thing today ah need to create?
00:23:35
Speaker
Well, that's an icon or a patch or an illustration. And I'll only try to think about that. And then that's one step in the right direction. um So the second part of that, if it's just for fun, I'm not going to touch the screen. I'm going to jump off and easily go play a video game or or watch a TV show or a cartoon that I seem to constantly get back to for inspiration. I'll just jump to that and get off the screen or try to get back to my sketchbook because that's always a fun one.
00:24:04
Speaker
Can you point out maybe some of those shows you're watching? um You know, honestly, I've been... rewatching The Simpsons. And realized that I used to watch it when I was a kid in the 90s.
00:24:16
Speaker
And I fell off once I found out about South Park. And i never touched any Simpson episodes really since then. So I was like, you know what, there's so much the like gems that are in that and impressive like writers, especially on the first couple of seasons. I i need to go back and just pay attention as an adult. i I actually haven't watched, I haven't watched any specific season. I've watched Simpsons episodes, but I'm a big pop culture. When you started talking about the writers, my brain lit up. So I see what you mean. and you're You're getting inspiration, not necessarily just from visual design, but from creativity as a whole.
Inspiration from Narrative Storytelling
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, the storytelling. i find that I've always found that fascinating. I've always been the kid that is eager to watch the behind the scenes of a film just as much as the actual film.
00:25:11
Speaker
I want to know how it's made. I want to understand what does that mean? And shows like that, for sure, it's it goes over a kid's head ah probably nine times out of ten. But looking back on it, and these are so old.
00:25:25
Speaker
It's funny because it's still very good. Old SpongeBob episodes are like that where I'm like, oh, that's actually that's an adult joke. I never got that as a kid, but I do remember it.
00:25:36
Speaker
I just probably laughed and understand it. But it's cool to look back on it. And now it's yeah it's a whole different perspective. Have you listened to Inside Conan at all? Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:47
Speaker
yeah There's a good story that he has about when Johnny Carson, the first Tonight Show host, came. I'm now seeing that you know that story. Yeah, yeah well, he he talks so fondly about Johnny Carson and saying that was one reason he wanted to pursue show business.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah, well, you can check that off the list of another thing we have. Something that is really standing out to me about what we're discussing about how you get over your creative roadblocks and your philosophy behind creating as a whole. But I i wrote down encircled travel because it sounds like what you really look for is movement, is seeing what's next.
00:26:29
Speaker
You want to see the bigger picture. You want to understand it And then you want to interpret it in your own way. that's That's really, yeah, that that really puts it to to a point.
00:26:40
Speaker
And, you know, I don't even notice it, to be honest, most of the time. It's just we're wired a certain way to, okay, what's next? Okay, but how do we push it this other time? And then that just becomes the norm.
00:26:52
Speaker
But yeah, that is true. it it's It's something that, you know, we're chasing something, right? yeah And I think for me, it's, we've talked about it, perfection, perfectionism and And I don't think that's and think that's everything for me, but I think it's something to do with ideas that I haven't seen exist or ideas that it's in my head. And it could be just a silly little icon, but it's like, oh, I haven't seen that.
00:27:16
Speaker
And I can visualize it and it's like, I'm so excited to to make it real. And I think that sometimes is what I'm pursuing. It's like, I just want to make it real so it's it can exist. Mm-hmm. We're feeding two beasts, curiosity and perfectionism. yeah And those two go hand in hand, but they make us better creatives.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah. So kind of jumping back onto this Simpson talk that we kind of just had. yeah How important to you is history in art and design and maybe talking kind of about you mentioned meeting your idol when you were volunteering at this design convention.
00:27:54
Speaker
How important is that for you? it's It's big. You know how they say that you don't meet your idols and things like that. But it's like, you know, you should go say hi. See, like know them fully as a person and then appreciate them as an artist.
00:28:11
Speaker
And I think those can typically remain separate. But it's like, I still appreciate your work and I still admire it from afar. and And that's enough to really keep it going forward. But um yeah, yeah.
00:28:22
Speaker
It's definitely important to to know why things are what they are. it kind of gets back to what we were saying earlier. To understand why they come about is to understand how they they repeat themselves. And then that gives me confidence in not overthinking things.
00:28:36
Speaker
Some of my favorite artists, you can blatantly see their inspiration. It's like, it's these four things and they'll say it. And then when you look back at those four things, you're like, oh, that's literally the same type that you use everywhere.
00:28:49
Speaker
That's literally the same colorway that you use everywhere. But you've put these things together and and it is your own. You're now original in some way. But You know, you don't know that until you do your research.
00:29:01
Speaker
And I think that's the key important part. I actually have a ah funny story here that completely ties into what you're talking about. So I got into graphic design because of ah a streetwear artist, graphic designer named Benny Gold.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah. ah He does a lot of design and ran his own clothing brand for a long time, for roughly 16 years before moving in agency. He was so inspired by San Francisco go and I was too.
00:29:24
Speaker
So I made a lot of all my first graphic design illustrations were based on that and we're were based on those ideas and the values and the storytelling that he was using in his designs. And that really informed how I thought as a designer.
00:29:37
Speaker
That changed my practice as time went on. And it obviously variated as we are exposed to different things. But that early work is so derivative of it. So much so is that when i met him in person and he gave me a portfolio review, I had to just blatantly say, hey, I am so sorry, by the way. I'm so sorry that this is super derivative, but you really did inspire me and The way that you did this composition, the way you did this design, wow that that taught me, regardless of whether or not we were using words yeah for visual communicators.
00:30:09
Speaker
that's ah That's a great story. So what was his, did he have a reaction or I imagine someone like him gets it a lot. He gets it a lot, right? He laughed it off, but he was actually super kind. He gave me just, I don't know if the word the kindest crit is correct, but But he was really kind.
00:30:28
Speaker
Yeah. We were just kind of talking about art and design. And honestly, I had more questions for him. i was not that interested in talking about my work. I was so much more curious about what he had to say. so mainly those conversations were about his philosophy and design and his upbringing and what he believes in now.
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah. Because i I really do look up to him as a designer and people still do because he's got to got a great head on his shoulders. What can you say? Yeah, and he' he's got a body of work that speaks volumes to that, right? Because that's always been my impression. I've never met him, but he seems to be one of the same when it comes to like his message and his his style and his, like you said, capturing San Francisco and in a lot of his work.
00:31:07
Speaker
Seems to be him in his interviews. Yeah, he's... He's just a guy. But it's it's unbelievable from afar. Yeah, I feel like that about some some artists too its It's a strange thing. It's never where we are when we're in those moments. It's about what what insight, what jewel do I need to like to hear, to like to get on the right path? And and then you realize like it there really is no...
00:31:31
Speaker
Right path. It's just, it's all personal. Yeah. And again we're kind of just talking about, we need to be inspired when we are going past these roadblocks. What are we going to look to? And oftentimes sounds for like, for you, for me, it's other creatives to look up to, to hear about their process and be inspired again to create.
00:31:51
Speaker
You talk about those this creative slumps. i mean, there's no getting out of that without being inspired from what I've witnessed or seen are something that I've heard that someone said and is like, okay,
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah, I just need to get back in there. You know, i need to get out of my head. And that's usually the worst, worst case is it's whenever you're you're burnt out and you're in your head, you're just not going to get anything done. We're fortunate to be surrounded by good people.
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah. Again, we I feel like we keep coming back to this convention thing, but me and Tyler met at a convention. I saw one of his presentations in January at an Adobe Crate Now, but we really started talking in August.
00:32:28
Speaker
And then we saw each other, I think once a month after that until the end of the year. Coincidentally, yeah, we ended up being at the same events. And it was so funny because I vaguely remember it because the ah the Create Now thing was such a ah blur because it was, I was in my head because I had to do ah ah talk and I was all nervous and doing that. And then afterwards, it's just like, oh, the weight of everything's off. It's like, oh, why am I so stressed out about doing this stuff? I should do it more.
00:32:54
Speaker
And then like meeting everyone, there's usually so many people coming up. And like you said, but seeing your face again, and then you're really good at being proactive and and making a point to say hi, and remembering conversations. And it's like, oh, oh, dude, what's up? And then it's now we're friends, you know?
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, well, I appreciate that shout out. But to that point about conventions or summits or meetups, whenever I'm feeling down and in my own work and my own designs, I don't feel that way after a convention. I'm ready to start going again.
00:33:29
Speaker
Even if I didn't have a good experience at that convention, i am ready to quote unquote, prove that feeling wrong. m it it all of a sudden becomes a problem I have to write.
00:33:42
Speaker
yeah Even coming out after Adobe Max, that was four straight days of convention. I think that that was the most I had witnessed um consecutively. and i And I felt so burnt out, but I had to i had to put all my my thoughts together to writing and then to the art board and it just keeps going. And that's how I'm here now with this podcast. it the The biggest thing is just doing it, right? It's just like pressing record or or play or was it pen to paper?
00:34:12
Speaker
It's the simple thing. It's the hardest, you know, because we can stew on it forever, but are you doing it? And, you know, if you're doing it and... You know, we we just have to remind ourself because it happens. I constantly go through that. Like I said, the the whole burnout phase, it's like it happens.
00:34:30
Speaker
I think everyone goes through it. But knowing that everyone goes through it is also kind of a kind of helpful thing. I'm not alone. I'm like, so it's normal to have a career and then also have burnout.
00:34:43
Speaker
How do you have that? And it's like, well, everyone goes through it. We're all human. It's that simple. I think there's also something so special about graphic designers, believe it or not, guys, let me let me explain.
00:34:56
Speaker
I think we as a group of as a group of honestly creative people, a lot of us view this artwork, this illustration, this design very objectively.
00:35:08
Speaker
Because we want to make the best piece of art or sorry, best piece of design or art that we possibly can. But a lot of it is also commercial. And there's something about that word commercial that alleviates and lifts some weight off my shoulders.
00:35:23
Speaker
Because then all of a sudden, because there's this goal that we have to hit, everyone wants to pitch everyone wants to help make something better. And it's that community that I come back to every time.
00:35:34
Speaker
It's when you find people that do that make me want to hit the ground running all the more. it It feels almost seismic in ways or cosmic, honestly, if you want to go that direction. But it's it's like ah there's a wavelength of understanding that when you're creative and you realize that everything around us is is made by someone.
00:35:53
Speaker
are a team. For me, it just pulled the veil down. And then I'm looking at everything through that lens of, oh, this billboard, and that could have been done better. Or this mouse, that charge port could have been done better.
00:36:06
Speaker
And we're thinking through that the progression of what we're doing is constantly looking at it and questioning it. And that's, ah I think, a healthy dialogue, you know, people who are creative.
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah. Especially for me. And fortunately about the Mac mouse Tyler just showed, it's great for Adobe Illustrator. I love using that mouse. But man, when when you're out of charge, oh my God, you're out of charge. I know.
00:36:30
Speaker
it's ah It's a little dead bug when you have to flip it upside down to have a cord plug into the bottom. it's It's not very robust. That's a creative pain illustration I want to see.
00:36:43
Speaker
That's actual pain. no Yeah, it is. Yeah, and honestly speaking to value, you and I have kind of brushed upon finding personal satisfaction out of what we're producing.
Social Media's Impact on Creative Validation
00:36:55
Speaker
But nowadays, graphic designers and illustrators are looking for validation strangely enough on social media through these numbers. Do you get validation out of it? How, what, what is your relationship like with social media and your artwork?
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's a, that's a tricky one. It's changed over the years for sure. you know, I've mentioned earlier about, My whole pursuit for these little illustration series and things like that became a means of the fastest portfolio in between the portfolio pieces, which is like I'm working on projects, but I can make these little icons for fun, share it.
00:37:32
Speaker
And it it became more dialogue and it became a ah faster way to hone my craft by kind of giving it ah a way to be seen. and then acknowledged individually. And I did a lot of that early on and for sure I got caught up in it. And and you know sometimes it still affects vs me today and in moments where you you spend a lot of time on ah video or content and it's like, oh,
00:37:55
Speaker
No one saw it or you know it didn't react that as as much as I thought it would. But I think of all the moments when I do create content, if it is on social media, whenever I feel good about it, even if it doesn't perform well, I'm just like, well, I did it.
00:38:11
Speaker
It's cool. I like it. No one sees it. Fine. I don't care. But it's still a portfolio piece. It's still something that says what I can do. And I think that message has been pretty consistent from day one. It's like, oh, this is what I can do. And I'm hoping other people want to pay me to do it.
00:38:28
Speaker
That's really the goal yeah with a portfolio. I will say, Tyler, whenever you describe your illustration work and then you say another portfolio piece, it feels like you're at the top of this wall and you go, oh, another brick.
00:38:42
Speaker
And then everyone's looking up like, what? Another one? and
00:38:50
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's like you said, ah we've got our eye probably somewhere we don't know exactly where, but it's it's a destination for me. It's like, oh, exploring in this style and exploring in that. And those are pieces. It's like, I just wanted to be the best designer, illustrator I can be. And I have to go through you these ringers of, all right, if if I'm not going to be known for a style or or an artist,
00:39:18
Speaker
well, I'm going to create a lot. i can i can i can't ah can't be afraid of putting in the work. I think that's what it gets down to. like If you're not afraid of that, then just create it. And I'm not afraid of the work. It's just, you know, I want to make sure it's meaningful at this point. And I think that's what's changed in the more recent few years for me. It's like, I want more meaning. It's not just about posting and forgetting. it's It's like, well, what is the bigger message? And I think the creative pain helped me with that because that's the focus point.
00:39:46
Speaker
I can build all these things and you can see the bite-sized pieces on social. But behind the scenes, all these things are going to a bigger picture for an art book. going bigger picture for a website, going to bigger picture of products are things that I want to just create and make on my own terms.
00:40:04
Speaker
um So that's kind of the big change. So it's it's tough because i deal I deal with the whole social media kickback and I see it. I see a lot of people getting consumed with the numbers and, well, you can't be a great designer unless you have a following or you you're not famous, then you're irrelevant. You know, it's BS.
00:40:23
Speaker
It doesn't matter. Speaking to that misconceptions, what are some other misconceptions that you've noticed maybe new designers have about what quote unquote success is?
00:40:35
Speaker
Oh, uh, landing a ah job you thought you could never get as being the achievement of the end goal. yeah Oh, once I get that job, ah I'm going to, I've made it.
00:40:45
Speaker
The job is going to only be exciting for so long. Hopefully it's forever, but for me, it's never been. It's, It's like, all right, what can I learn here? And I think that's the big change. And I hear a lot of people say, oh, if I just had that job or if felt oh I just had that one collaboration, this is my dream project thing. And then you you see that those are going to come and go. if it comes once in your life, I would be happy for that. But I hope it comes multiple times for all of us. Yeah.
00:41:11
Speaker
you know, because we change. We're constantly changing. like What is a dream job today is um probably not tomorrow because that's that's the growth side that I constantly have to to grapple with, especially with working at the bigger studios or or companies.
00:41:24
Speaker
It's NDAs. There's lots of projects that don't make it across the finish line because of things out of our our hands, budgets or whatever. But to have something that I can constantly create and on the side to have fun with, I'm becoming a better designer from that no matter what.
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah. And... I actually want to speak to from my own experience as well with something Tyler and i um the first thing we checked off on the list of things that we have have or had in common.
00:41:49
Speaker
I used to be in consumer products as well. I interned for a consumer products team. They were fantastic. The team was amazing, but I found the work to not necessarily be for me and,
00:42:01
Speaker
I, for a while, I was like, this was the job that I wanted for so long. Why, why am I feeling this way? I thought I wanted this. But that's when it took me a little bit to get on my feet, say, design is for work, but art is for me. Yeah, that's a big move.
00:42:20
Speaker
And that's, that's, That's really cool that you know you found that at the point in your career, you know because it's um some creatives don't ever find that. Some don't ever pursue wanting that.
00:42:32
Speaker
But when you do have it, you start to to to kind of blur the line of what is a career and what is you know living the dream. To that point of pivoting, as what Tyler just is describing what I am describing, Tyler was...
00:42:48
Speaker
in an advertising agency for roughly five years. He loves design, but didn't like doing website design. He found different solutions to his problems. And as those answers and as his creativity started flourishing, that's what he started to lean into.
00:43:04
Speaker
And very similarly for me, even though consumer products wasn't necessarily for me, I found avenues elsewhere. I started doing art again. And having taken what I actually learned from consumer products, working with amazing character artists that have such a fantastic eye for detail, I started seeing that detail being reflected in my work.
00:43:25
Speaker
And I started saying, hey, maybe it's time to pivot. maybe it's time to pursue something else on either the side or full time. So this leads me to one of my last questions.
00:43:37
Speaker
You've worked on so many different projects, whether they be personal for clients or for your day job. what What makes you feel the most alive?
00:43:48
Speaker
it's It's for sure the creative pain. That's that That's why I started it. The creative pain is my it's my little playground. And i get to play however I want with the tools of illustrating or design. and And I get to use everything that I've picked up on my career and journey, which I emphasized before. I did website design for many years. But I know my way around a grid because of that.
00:44:17
Speaker
I know my way around seeing things in pixels and on phones and on screens and what user experiences are because of that. So now it's bringing that into it the creative pain. It's just I can now do that for my my own stuff. And that's fun because I get to pick and choose.
00:44:35
Speaker
I don't want to do certain things. I don't have to. Yeah. Yeah. So this this can be the last question to to kind of wrap things up because this theme has come back in most of our discussion today.
00:44:47
Speaker
What is some advice that you can give to students before we end off today? Don't put yourself in a box. Don't just be a website designer. Don't just be an illustrator. Don't just be a logo designer. Don't just be a social media creative.
00:45:00
Speaker
I think what happens sometimes when that narrative goes forward, it's It's considered failure when you change. i've I've noticed that. I've felt that way before. It's like, oh, if I'm not doing website designs anymore, is it because I couldn't do it? Do I feel like I wasn't good enough to continue?
00:45:16
Speaker
And then it was just me putting myself in a box because that's where I started. But if you don't put yourself in a box and realize that we change creatively and we're picking up little chapters that we can use down the road, you'll be a lot better.
00:45:29
Speaker
I'm gonna add on to that. The person that I know to be the most amazing specialist is saying, students, new designers, be a generalist.
00:45:40
Speaker
Be able to pivot, be able to move, but find that one thing or maybe multiple things that you really enjoy. And that's when those specialties come in. yeah Yeah, that's when you focus it.
00:45:52
Speaker
What's next for the creative pain? I have been really putting off the website launch. The website. There's a lot of components that I keep getting hung up on because I'm just a victim of details.
00:46:07
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, I want this to be in there and it needs to all be fleshed out. But there's a lot of storytelling that I want to implement in that, which transitions to...
00:46:19
Speaker
Delivering more presentations and workshops. That's the big one. ah want to get to that. There's a lot to help other creatives either get through those hurdles or feel the ease of, you know, one step at a time. And I'd i'd love to be able to inspire or or really just educate people who are in that rut.
00:46:36
Speaker
I've been there. I as well, which is why I am here with you today. Well, Tyler, before we say goodbye, where can everybody find you? ah You can easily find me on all the social medias at The Creative Pain.
00:46:50
Speaker
So Instagram's a predominant one I use. There's TikTok, YouTube, website. It's all the creative pain. So find me there. Dribble's there. Yeah. We were digging through the old stuff on Dribble.
00:47:01
Speaker
Yes. So please, everybody, if you want to take a look at Tyler's old work that he has consented to me saying that you can you can look at, please...
00:47:13
Speaker
new designers take a look at where one of the most prolific vector illustrators once was and see where he is today on Instagram.
00:47:26
Speaker
Inspiration and motivation go hand in hand against roadblocks. But sometimes roadblocks just need time. In other cases, you can't wait forever. And at some point, you need to go searching for it.
00:47:39
Speaker
You need to find inspiration that will spark your motivation. For everybody, it's different. Is it a behind-the-scenes look at a show, a movie? Or is it just a conversation with a fellow creative?
00:47:52
Speaker
I'm more than lucky to have crossed paths with Tyler as much as I have in the last year. When I struggle with creativity, talking to Tyler it always gets me inspired to open up my illustrations again for a round two.
00:48:04
Speaker
Tyler, the advice you share is something I always take to heart, and hopefully you, the audience, can as well. To close out our portfolio sessions is a Mr. Andrew Hawkrattle.
00:48:18
Speaker
Andrew gave me one of the first portfolio reviews I ever received, and that review session changed my life. This next episode is a crazy one, and you're not going to want to miss it.
00:48:30
Speaker
If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to subscribe. But most importantly, share this with someone who needs it. This isn't just a craft and this isn't just a job, but it's a community of creatives and designers trying to make a name for ourselves.
00:48:44
Speaker
We shouldn't let the competitive job market affect the longevity of this community. So share what you've learned here with a friend, a student, whoever. And thank you for listening.