Transcript
Speaker: All right, I'm Steve Brown. And I'm Mark McBride. And I'm Greg Cohen. Yeah! and behind The behind yo-yo craze, or at least killing yo-yo crazes.
Speaker: In today's episode, Jason and Nick.
Speaker: And so that's when Greg said, okay, this is what it's going to take. And Then what we had to do was ah basically find the companies to sign on for a piece of it.
Speaker: And that's that that became gregs you know like that became Greg's responsibility. So we were in we were in it as partners and I brought the first half, he brought the second half.
Speaker: And so we would just start reaching out to companies. Obviously, you know he was doing this legwork.
Speaker: I know a couple of things about businesses like this. Number one, I knew they didn't want to make a mistake. The craze was happening. They wanted not to be the one that didn't do something. Politicians have the same problem. They have to buy all these ads like everyone else for fear if they don't, they're going to lose. And I wrote a program for them and I made it a specific length. It was 28 pages because nobody reads more than six or seven pages. They get bored. Their eyes glaze over.
Speaker: I had explicit instructions on how to do anything. I went through everything. I made it sound important. It was all accurate, but I made it too long for them to absorb. So ah they perceived me as an expert. And every single company I sent a packet to signed on.
Speaker: And the whole object was to get them to sign on because I needed to use their money to promote Fiend Magazine.
Speaker: And we started like getting them on board. So I think that I can't remember who was first, but I'm to say it's probably like BC. I think BC to Tom Kuhn might've been first been like, if you get it together, there you go. And then, which is fucking hilarious.
Speaker: Yeah. And, um, I think that pro pro yo and Henry's were on pretty early e and Duncan was on and then Duncan signed on.
Speaker: But surely like at that point, there was at that point they signed on before they had a demonstrator. But yeah, I mean, they had all they had was Hank at that point. And Hank was like fucking 13. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah No, it was definitely one of those like, we'll work it out. And so at this point now we're starting, but we're starting to go into like the spring. So by this point, I had left. I don't know the chronology.
Speaker: I left Omega to just do Fiend full time, which opened me up to being Duncan's guy. So I think that that was probably. They probably signed on with the idea that they could get me.
Speaker: So they so they were covered. So hang on. As we're rattling these off. So B.C., what's next? That was Jason Tracy. Yeah. Okay. That was, that was their demonstrator. He was their demonstrator for the entire tour.
Speaker: What can you tell us about Jason Tracy? Jason Tracy, the the well the magical otter or something like that, the unicorn otter or something. and the the the The flying magical otter from space or something, thing I believe. He the cosmic otter. Cosmic otter.
Speaker: He had the signature yo-yos from BC with an otter wearing like an astronaut helmet. I still got one. Super old school woodies, you know, like know what you do with those things. Jason Tracy was the youngest on the tour. I think I was 21. Yeah.
Speaker: Pretty sure was 21. And Jason Tracy was the youngest. And he was pretty young. you know He's a little younger than all of us and a little little green. he had just graduated from high school, right? I think so. Yeah, he was a little green. you know he he music He was very sweet, very innocent. He was young and green.
Speaker: It's life. And I feel like he learned a lot on that tour. Yes. Yes, he did.
Speaker: Oh, Jason. Jason was, oh my God. So we' he's probably the youngest out of everybody that we have known.
Speaker: um So him and Chuck Short, you know, they was doing the BC thing. um Didn't Jason turn 18 on tour? I think he did. Yeah, I think we did. so And then we saw him.
Speaker: What was our tour after? That might have been L.A. But yeah, whatever it was. So yeah, Jason, was he was a youngster. So his signature series, Yo-Yo, the ah ah ah Otter.
Speaker: Cosmic Otter. Cosmic Otter, yes. That's it. Yeah, so it was a signature series. Yeah, because I just pulled one out the problem not even two weeks ago out of my collection. They had a yellow and white yo-yo. That's funny. So... color way Yeah, so... And I remember seeing him with Chuck on Fiend Magazine cover and stuff like that.
Speaker: The Cosmic Otter? Yeah, I mean... ah yeah i mean like Look, like it was kind of surreal because somebody kind of growing up in the Midwest, it felt like a lot of the yo-yo activity was happening in Honolulu or on the West Coast or in Florida. And so like a lot of the personalities are like names you would just hear about on the on the message boards or from kind of what you what you gathered on the internet. And so it was it was awesome. I think, you know, outside of um some of the competitions and I don't think
Speaker: I don't think at that time Jason had been to the world. yeah Maybe he was at Prim, but I don't know if he was in Pittsburgh. But, you know, so it was it was just cool to be able to spend time with these guys that, you know, for for five years leading up to it, you were just kind of reading about them online and how they're they're shaping the yo-yo culture across the country. um Specifically, what I remember about Jason is that, you know, similar to Steve, he kind of started out as like ah like an old schooler in the sense that he he loved using wood He loved using wood axle yo-yos. His favorite trick, like the one that he would just do all the time was a hydrogen bomb.
Speaker: And he would, he would barely get to the finish. You know, he would like, yeah, be like one roll and pop it. And that's all, that's all he could get on his BC yo-yos. um But I i think i remember correctly. um He got like his first shipment of the cosmic otters while we were on tour, it was like ah black and orange and white yo-yo. And so, Um, so he had distributed those. Um, yeah, it was two colorways. There was an orange and white one that looked like a creamsicle. And then there was a black and silver.
Speaker: Okay. I had the, or I had the creamsicle Steve. Nice.
Speaker: Yeah. He's been, a Jason's been a teacher for like 10 years.
Speaker: award an award-winning teacher what yeah what yeah yeah he got like some teacher of the year like outstanding educator something award wow yeah mean i think he was like freshman or in college or something was young so yeah he was very young you guys you guys you guys gave him a uh Yeah. ah yeah really yeah we gave him a he education Yeah. Yeah. Ruined his life forever.
Speaker: So Tracy, what is how did you give it? Give us the, the, the quick version of how you ended up just yo-yoing with BC. Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, the fastest version i can muster would be i was, you know, doing the yo-yo stuff in the mid or early mid-90s. And then around 95, went to my first contest, which was the West Coast regionals that John Stengel put on.
Speaker: And that's where I met, like, you know, the the, like, Mount Rushmore folks, right? Like the Dale and Dale and Bill Du Bois Blanc and,
Speaker: Tommy Smothers was there. But yeah, I really got into it then. And it was like all about yo-yos and then um competed at some of John's contests. And then like the second year or so, got a California state championship title.
Speaker: Um, and then at the same time was making a website, HTML, uh, and made a yo-yo website. And there was like six websites, you know, there's Bob's land of yo was like a list of links.
Speaker: And then there's a couple of other ones. And then, so I was really just kind of there. I happened to be around and I've gotten like a few gigs off of just having my website. Um, people contact me, do some pro stuff, demonstrate Like, a I don't remember that. What was your website?
Speaker: Uh, Jason, I think it was like, ah Jason's yo-yo land or, ah something, something yo-yo land. And then later I had a yo-yo champ.com website too.
Speaker: Um, but, uh, so was getting a little bit of work doing yo-yo stuff there. And then I just had, you know, when you're young and dumb and, and have gumption and stuff and like, don't really understand,
Speaker: the barriers that we impose on, you know, you don't have any of those barriers you impose on yourself when you're older. I just like picked up the phone and like called, you know, and I had learned playing on like the hummingbird yo-yos and stuff and BC was like a new thing.
Speaker: And so I like called BC ended up like talking on the phone to Brad countryman. it was like, Hey, I'm a kid. That's a yo-yo champion. And I been doing work as a yo-yo pro. Do you need a yo-yo pro?
Speaker: And then Brad was like, well, You know, we've got a couple of trade shows here and there. Got this thing in Pomona coming up soon. Like we could use somebody. Sure. And so it was really just a matter of me like going and calling Brad. And at this point, this point in the story, you're in high school.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. At the beginning of high school, probably a freshman, sophomore. The Warped Tour that we're talking about, right? That happened right after I had graduated from high school.
Speaker: the summer after high school graduation. So the timing was perfect there. you turned Didn't you turn 18 on the tour? ah No. i had turned i i was like 18 and a half. you know My birthday is December 30th.
Speaker: now Okay. So then another kind of slightly non sequitur, but on that note, Cosmic Otter. Yeah. but but what What's that? So it I think it like it actually was something that was like a vision and a dream at one point. But I had been um wanting to have a logo or some sort of like totem animal that was in keeping with the Tom Kuhn flying camel.
Speaker: Right. So it was like. Got it. Animal from nature. doing something in moving through air. I think it was kind of i think that was the corollary piece.
Speaker: But yeah, I do remember like having some vivid image like dream image of like an otter with a space pack on it. And that and that was I was like describing that to Eric Barrington, the graphic design guy BC.
Speaker: And he came up with that logo and made that logo. which was cool. And yeah, and that was it. Little did I know that like the otter, I think is the official, like, uh, is it the otter? Like, uh, like a totem of, of the LGBTQ community worldwide or something, which I'm cool with. Like, um, I think somebody, somebody said that to me at some point. I was like, whatever.
Speaker: ah i don't think I've heard that. No, it is. There's like bears and otters. I don't know what an otter is, but it's it's kind of like a bear. there's so it's It's somehow related. It's like a junior bear or something like that. Something like that. it's a time There's a subtype.
Speaker: I thought that was a cub. thought you had bears and cubs. No? Well, that's just some research. You know, I think there's a lot. I think there's bears, cubs, otters, and then other things, too. Well, wait. Then what's a twink?
Speaker: Well, how did you get from being Brad's working with Brad, you being on the tour? Great question. And I wish I could tell you more. um I, you know, I think I was just kind of like the de facto, you know, Chuck and i both were doing work and working for Brad. And I think that was just like, oh, Jason's the person to do that job. You know, I think Brad called and asked.
Speaker: Chuck was instrumental in kind of coordinating a lot of that stuff too. So I think maybe part of it was Chuck was older and I was younger and seemingly more hip.
Speaker: Maybe it's because Chuck like had, a you know, a job and a life and couldn't take off for the summer for six weeks and just be gone the whole time too. So, but for whatever, it was like not even really something I know that was discussed at length. It was just like, oh yeah, Jason, you you want to do the Warped Tour thing, right?
Speaker: It's like, yeah, of course. That's awesome. uh, like, how was it pitched to you? Like, did they, you know, did they kind of lay it all out or they're like, Oh, there's just going to be this thing and it's going be six weeks. Do you want to do it?
Speaker: Yeah, I think it was, you know, i think I want to say it wasn't like a brand new news to me. Like I kind of had knowledge, right? Like whether it was from you, Mark or Steve, you know, and Greg, um,
Speaker: you know I think it was kind of cooking and brewing for a while, right? Like, because working I was writing some articles for Fiend Magazine and everything. And so, like, Greg Cohen would, you know, how Greg would love to talk about all the stuff that he was doing and everything, right? So, oh, yeah. the So I think I just kind of knew it and saw it on the horizon. And it was just, so there was no real, like, shock value. It was like, oh, hopefully this will happen.
Speaker: All right. So that was Jason. Nick Vandersky. Do you remember anything of Nick? Nick. Yeah. Well, Nick, Nick was straight edge, you know, he was young and slick and stra very straight edge and seemed, you know, compared to the rest of us, little sheltered maybe, but real nice kid.
Speaker: um i remember Nick, Nick and I were both kind of on that same wavelength cause he was younger too. Right. And, And then we ended up hanging out a lot together. We were younger and I think Nick was like straight edge or something too, right? You know, and so me being the young, fresh out of high school Mormon kid, who you know.
Speaker: After the tour in 1999, when we were writing the articles for Fiend, ahha you and i ah interviewed each other much like we're doing now.
Speaker: for that tour oh shit we did yeah guess what i fucking found no i fucking got the tapes i found the tapes and transferred them to mp3 of those interviews oh man i don't know what's going to be worse on that the audio quality or just how dumb and pretentious we were you know funny you should mention that because you nailed it on both accounts um
Speaker: Oh, shit. That was such a good age to be a fucking moron. We are not as funny as we thought we were. Where
Speaker: was our cast of characters? We had you, me, I was there for Team Losey, were there Duncan, Nick, for Henry's Yo-Yo Systems. And you just went on like the last second.
Speaker: That's what's really funny, if you look at all the press, he's not on it. Yeah, he's not on all the press. In fact, if you can look at the stickers that we had, it says six Yario pros. Yeah. He was added like at the last second.
Speaker: Yep. and But somehow we ended up with a Henry sticker. Well, no, we knew Henry was coming on, we didn't know there were some indicators.
Speaker: Like what's the Nick, the Nick Vansky origin story? Yeah, it's a good question. And I really have to go back to remember all the details. It's been so long, but you know, in the, um in the mid nineties, I started working at a a toy shop, which was kind of a quasi kite shop in Western Michigan called the Mackinac kite company.
Speaker: And so this is a kind of a, you know, a, a high performance kite store that's, um, conveniently located right on Lake Michigan in, in Grand Haven, Michigan, just, just west of Grand Rapids, but on the lake.
Speaker: And so in the summer, you know, there was tourists there, you know, we sold a lot of beach toys and, uh, learning toys and games and, and yo-yos. And so, you know, it was, it was really kind of a, a, a busy environment in the summer. We were catering to a tourist crowd, but then, you know, in the winter and I i would, I maintained the job kind of while I was in high school.
Speaker: Um, in the winter it was dead. Right. And there was only so much inventory you could do or so much, you I mean, I mean how many like, like a winter in Michigan. you So as soon as you be, as soon as you sell off all your dog sledding supplies, i mean, what's left.
Speaker: There's nothing left Mark, you know? And it so it was, it was incredibly boring. And they were one of the early, early distributors in Michigan anyway of Omega Yo-Yos. And so they had you know the brain and the fireball and the Raider. And I had picked up a fireball um with ah the traditional plastic axle. And, you know, I started playing with that just because I was bored out of my mind, ah you know, going to this shop after school. most weekdays and and closing it down, you know, at the end of the day, there was not a lot to do.
Speaker: And so, you know, I played with it and I, i got better and, you know, there, there, that was probably like a year or two before the big craze. mean, you guys know the timelines better than I do, but I think like, like yo-yoing really blew up in Michigan, probably 1995, 1996. And I already had kind of a couple years in and was, you know, one of the, one of the better, um, yo-yours in the, in the area. And so, you know, the, the company would, would have me do demonstrations and we sold kind of a a ton of, of Yo Mega yo-yos over that time. But there was an opportunity, ah to go to Honolulu and, um, be a part of kind of the, the team, uh, HPK or high performance kites. Um, I think the guy's name is Alan Nagao. Is that right?
Speaker: yeah So there was a there was a group of kind of demonstrators from across the the country who flew to to Honolulu to kind of get trained in the in the HPK ways. And so at the time, I was still kind of working for Mackinac Kite Company, but but highly affiliated with with Yomega and ensuring that you know their products were ah you know on the shelves across the Midwest and that kids were playing with them.
Speaker: ah You know, it's kind of amazing. I'm starting to believe that Mark and I are literally the only two yo-yo demonstrators from that time period who fucking didn't get flown out to Hawaii to get trained by HBK. was just us. We were the two holdouts.
Speaker: And Mark, you actually work for Yomegas. So what happened there? At some point while working at the the kite shop and and touring, um Henry's came out with a line of yo-yos that i i just really and I just really thought it was a better yo-yo than what was coming out um from Yomega. I liked, you know, the the Yomega yo-yos at the time, you know, they had, um they had what was the what was the name of the Raider without the side caps?
Speaker: Oh, the RB2. yeah Yeah, they had the RB2, which I played with a little and liked, um but they didn't really have, you know, like they didn't have a super popular butterfly yo-yo. Um, at least we didn't, we didn't have them at the the shops in Michigan or Midwest. And so, um, when Henry's came out and had like the kind of the oversized butterfly design, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was better, better than anything in the Uomega lineup. And despite kind of the fact that I had been trained by HPK and, um, had been aligned with kind Uomega for several years, I just started using Henry's cause I liked it. I thought it was a better product, frankly. So you're crushing it at Worlds. You come back a victorious, you know, champion of yo-yos to Grand Rapids.
Speaker: Yeah. So, um so that was 97. And then like, you know, throughout, throughout the summer, that summer, and then 1998, you know, I actually, Mackinac Kite Company and and in HPK specifically, they were like, hey, They're like, we want you guys, we want you to to tour full time. You know, you had a big impact at Worlds. Like there's a lot of money here. And I, you know, they really tried to prevent me from going to college. And I was like, you know what, I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to go to college. And if you want to use me in the summer, I'm happy to consider that.
Speaker: and um And that's what I did. i went to college. I studied economics in undergrad. And then in the summers, you know, i would i i would kind of apply for these internships with like wealth management firms and banks. And I i remember kind of fast forward to 99, I had an alumni offer me this really great opportunity at what at the time it was National City Bank, who was acquired by by PNC and of of kind of PNC Park status in Pittsburgh.
Speaker: And by then kind of the Omega kind of craze had had fizzled a little, um depending on what part of the country you're in. And, you know, I was, I was kind of more of a, of an independent operator and kind of, um, could do what I want and use the products that I want at that time. And, and I had, I had, you know, i again, I still used Henry's because I thought it was a superior product it's just, it's just what I liked to use. You talked about Greg and kind of how he set up the warp tour. Um, but, uh, my sense is he had reached out to Jim Henry,
Speaker: So he had reached out, Jim reached out and was like, Hey, you know, they're doing this, um, Fiend Magazine, North American yo-yo tour. It's being held kind of in conjunction with the 1999 Vans Warped Tour.
Speaker: Um, you know, we're considering sponsoring, uh, Henry's is considering sponsoring, not, not, uh, air traffic. And, uh, you know, we're, we're looking for demonstrators and, you know, i was like, well what does that mean? You know, is it just, is it just the, you know, the Chicago spot or the Minneapolis spot? He's no, no, it's the, it's the entire North American tour. you know And i think he might have name dropped some of you guys that were on it.
Speaker: And um yeah i think I think I actually already had this internship lined up. And so I i was like, you know what, let me me call you back. um So I thought about it, talked it over and called him back and said, you know, let's let's do it. i i called I called my contact at the bank and was like, you know what, I had another opportunity come up and it's just not going to work out this summer. That was kind of the start of it.
Speaker: Oh, that's fantastic. I mean, because the rest of us, we were all just like we were in it for like yo-yo long haul. And I love that you're like, yeah, i'm going to blow off this bank gig and do this for you guys just one time. Just this one.
Speaker: don't know if he did any damage to that reputation. After six weeks on tour with us, the generates, you know, but ah he's like an investment anchor now. So I don't think we did too much damage. i did All right. Well, you know, you know it's funny that you say that because one of the, one of the memories I have with him is,
Speaker: um and playing poker with us a little bit. We used to play blackjack a little bit on the bus. remember there was some question whether gambling was like against straight edge philosophy or something. You know, like and that now that he's an investment banker, I'm like, do we set him off on that path? I don't know. Maybe we have some maybe we share some responsibility. I don't know.
Speaker: I want to cut of his i want to cut of his portfolio then. i don't know. I don't think i's say anything to get him into trouble here. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, just just from, ah like, I'll need to keep it PG in terms of what gets released only because, like, my my corporate communication team, anything that gets released in my name, they'll get an instant Google alert.
Speaker: So, I
Speaker: don't know how it affected the world. Well, I mean, this was largely pre, I mean, this was pre-social media and, you know, pre-superfunctional internet.
Speaker: So realistically, like this was this was like the most that people got to hang out with other yo-yo players. Like we do like this little gang of us doing this tour. We interacted with more actual yo-yo players than any other yo-yo player.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Oh, that's something that I have to admit that there were demonstrators who would like go out and, you know, and do shows and stuff. And they were interacting with like the general public and stuff. But as far as like yo-yo players getting to hang out with other yo-yo players without it being like at, you know, like world yo-yo contest, like this was the most socializing that, you know, anybody had done.
Speaker: no it was like, i have to say that I was, you and I, like all the the, those of us on that tour were the most interesting viable players at that moment because we were the only people that got to interact with so many different players.
Speaker: Yeah. Like that I was, I was relevant for that minute of history and is because like we were uniquely able to like learn stuff and see things from so many different groups before the internet let you see everything before There were established contests to go to. Like nobody got to go and and hang out and learn tricks from every yo-yo club in the country.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I remember telling people tales of like, dude, I was in Japan. And I saw this guy do this trick. And I would like try to describe the trick and I couldn't physically do the trick and like regaling people with stories of these mysterious Japanese yo-yo tricks that no one had ever seen. Yeah. You know, and doing the same thing in Japan, trying to explain to them trick. you know, I saw Sage do this trick with this and it was fucking crazy and it was kind of like this, but it wasn't. And I don't know how to recreate it. And, oh, I saw Paul Escalade and they're like, oh, Paul Escalade.
Speaker: You know, and it's it's like, you know, I i felt like, um you know, I felt like some kind of like traveling like salesman and like the old west or something like going from town to town and spreading the news of what's happening back in Deadwood. You know, like it was it was this weird like I mean, it was like a live oral history of yo-yos happening at that moment because there was almost no other fucking way for us to connect at the time.
Speaker: And I'm Greg Cohen. Yeah! and behind The behind yo-yo craze, or at least killing yo-yo crazes.
Speaker: Greg, out of everyone we've interviewed so far, you were the only person who jumped on that without hesitation. Everybody else just stared at us. but I do have my own podcast, you know. yeah Yeah. I probably have both of you on it sometimes, which, by the way, is called Lofty Pursuits. If anyone out there want listen wants to listen to it, we're on episode 170 something right now.
Speaker: Definitely beating us. Well, I started first. I see you.
