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Marguerite Orane
15 Plays1 month ago
Welcome to the first full episode in season 4 of the Joy Anyhow podcast! How many of us have worked in joyful places? Have you given thought to what it means and what it takes to lead joyfully? Take some time to listen to coach, facilitator, leader and author Marguerite Orane, as she talks with me about her journey to leading and living with joy. If you want to learn more about Marguerite's work or connect with her, check her out at margueriteorane.com
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Transcript
00:00:26
Speaker
Welcome to season four, episode one of the Joy Anyhow podcast, where my guests and I explore how we find and how we hold on to joy in the midst of any storm. I'm your host, Krista Robinson Lyles. And I'm eager, so eager today because I get to talk to someone who I've actually never met in person.
00:00:49
Speaker
But um our work intersects. but We work together at the intersection of joy, if you will. And so I'm so so interested in in finding out more about Marguerite's experiences. And Marguerite, thank you so much for agreeing to be here today. Welcome. Thank you so much, Krista. Whenever I see someone who has joy in their LinkedIn profile, I'm like, yeah, I got a grant.
00:01:13
Speaker
And that is how we connected audience. We connected because Marguerite reached out. It was just awesome to say when I see joy and I see it more often now, but when I see it, I just, I'm joyful and I want to connect. So with that, Marguerite, would you please start by telling the audience who you are and how you are in the world right now? So my name is Marguerite Doreen. I am originally from a place that more many people associate with joy because they vacation there. They get fabulous music from there, wonderful food from there, the most amazing athletes from there, Jamaica. So, Jamaica and joy. So that's my name. I currently live in Toronto. And, you know, how do I turn up in the world? I see myself as a catalyst.
00:02:09
Speaker
for helping people to live, work, and lead with joy. I believe that joy is our birthright. You look at a baby and and you just see joy. And you feel joy when you look at the little baby, which means it's something, Krista, that we're born with. And unfortunately, as we go through life,
00:02:33
Speaker
We are less and ah less and we just forget who what our innate being is, being some joy. So I want to help people to rediscover their joy and in particular to discover it at work. witness When hear about joy, we hardly ever hear about it at work. But obviously,
00:03:00
Speaker
I just think that if leaders can turn up joyfully and if they can consciously create joyful workplaces, oh, it'll be a much, much, much, much better world. So that's basically who I am and what I'm about in this life. I love it. Oh, I love that you said that. and Not just who I am and what I'm about in this life, right? Just that.
00:03:27
Speaker
It's so funny that you say that because when you were talking about people not associating joy with work, when I first saw your website and saw the way that you work with leaders and all the work that you do, I thought, have I ever worked in a place that I would say was joyful? Now, some of the people I've worked with have felt joyful to be around, but in terms of the environment and the organizations themselves, never.
00:03:53
Speaker
never. And so that is in part why I'm so excited about hearing what you have to say and how you do that. And yeah, so there's so much to dig into. And I think we'll start if you would, what do you mean when you say joy? How do you define joy? So this is something that I have been grappling with, if you will, over many, many years, what is joy? um And And what's the difference between joy and happiness? Because innately, I know there's a difference. I know that happiness is something that happens outside of you, great feeling, or that's what I believe anyway, something happens and you feel good. But joy, and this is why I love, you know, the title of this podcast, joy is anyhow. In the midst of,
00:04:48
Speaker
whatever you're going through, the most horrible situations, you can be joy in that moment and that has nothing to do with them what's happening. And so what is it? For me, joy is a quiet knowing that everything is okay.
00:05:12
Speaker
That's the closest I've come to it. And I've also, you know, over the last few months, I'm writing a book on leading joyfully. And so I i need to, I'm like, yeah, I need to define joy. And then I'm like, well, maybe joy is indefinable. Maybe if we define it, we limit it. And maybe the invitation is just to help people to get to a place where when they feel something, they recognize it, they say, oh,
00:05:41
Speaker
but I feel so joyful. And and so that's my roundable way of saying, I don't know what my definition of joy is. Well, I think that's so important though, because you know when we first started, I was saying when I have the same struggle, in other words, I'll say, I think I can know, I definitely know what the antithesis of joy is.
00:06:05
Speaker
Yes, I'm really clear about that. That's easy. Yeah, exactly. And I was laughing because I think you posted today your summer reading list in the book about Joy, right? And one of them was the book of Joy, right? Right. See? That's it for me too. And I think that's Joy, like that you said, that indefinable indefinable and undeniable, I think. Yeah.
00:06:34
Speaker
I think it is easy to forget that we know what joy is or to embody it or to recognize it, but when we do, like you can't deny that that's what's happening no matter what the microscopic catalyst for it was.
00:06:48
Speaker
I remember reading the book of joy maybe five, seven years ago when it first came out, I think, or something like that, and just being blown away because I wasn't sure yet where I was going in my work, but I knew I was stuck. e And I knew I wasn't feeling joy. I was feeling very heavy and very frustrated most of the time.
00:07:10
Speaker
And that book was a game changer for me. yeah And then there were other books that we can share later. But I just, that one I loved. And so trying to find a definition in there, though, was a pain. It's not it. I was like, I I'm like, OK, well, let me go to Book Up Joy. They must have a definition. Not really. But, you know, you just look at the Dalai Lama and you look at Archbishop Tutu and you're like,
00:07:32
Speaker
But they they just are joy. They are beings of joy. And when you think about what they've both gone through, yeah their lives, I mean, their lives have not were not easy. Well, it's Archbishop Tutu wasn't easy. And the Dalai Lama, I mean, he hasn't been home for set decades. you know yeah so And yet they come and they appear and you just feel like Just looking at them, you feel joy. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, so yeah.
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's what amazed me in looking at their work was just their conversation and interactions. As you said, they exuded joy. Yes. And um despite or in in spite of and at the same time as having been through and going through really huge you know things in life and a lot of them beyond unpleasant. note and And to do that, so I was thinking about that. I was thinking that If we were to define joy, maybe it it's an experience of wholeness. But I don't know that we need to get stuck there either. So I like this. I like what you said, not limiting it. I just let it go and say, OK, let me just help people do the practices that will open them up to joy. And they will find an experience, their own joy. So yeah, that's where I am now. I don't love it.
00:08:58
Speaker
That's where you are now. How did you get there, Marguerite? How did you get to the place that this is your work and what you embrace? Oh my gosh. You know, it's a long journey. It started when I was three months old. I like to tell people I was born this way. So my my parents had a business in Jamaica. And um at the time that I was born, the business was on the verge of bankruptcy.
00:09:25
Speaker
And it was tough, right? And bankruptcy in Jamaica at the time was horrible. um You can literally end up in prison there. And they thought they were going to lose the business and a along came cream a second most of the feed, right? Me. And my mom would always tell me that I brought so much joy to her. And this is where they the thing about looking at a baby and feeling joy. She said, she it just caring for me and got her through the tough times. And she said, you know, she, bit I probably cry because I cry every time I hear. And she said, you know, I would, I'd be feeling so bad about what's happening in the business. And I would just look at you and I'd say,
00:10:13
Speaker
Yuri can take everything away from me, but I can't take you. And I would just giggle and laugh and just see you too. It's okay. And so, i honestly, i that's where it must have come from, you know, somehow started. I had a very happy, carefree tre childhood in Jamaica, are running up and down.
00:10:38
Speaker
in a yard full of mango trees and dogs and all sorts of things. And so I've always just been on this path where there was happiness. Now I know my parents went through hell, right? Right.
00:10:52
Speaker
And there were tough times. But, you know, I was looking back at a ah high school picture, picture of my class. And I think I posted it on LinkedIn. I'm like, can you figure out which one is me? And people are like, yeah, the one in the middle who has had a big grin on her face. So.
00:11:12
Speaker
So yeah, through childhood and so on. And then at 23, my brother went to Harvard Business School. He was running the family business and he said, you know, I think you'd be the best person to run the business. So, you know, you don't tell your big brother, no, right? Sure. So I'm 23, five feet tall, round face, looking like I'm 16 and I'm left around this business. I was like barely a year out of university. I was left around this business that employed 70 men.
00:11:42
Speaker
and my father and my mother and it was hell. I think there have been two dark periods of my life. That was one. The other was when my marriage was falling apart. Really dark periods in my life. But I weathered it. And there were moments of joy there, but overall the experience was enjoyable.
00:12:09
Speaker
And I left, we sold the business and I went to HBS and that, there are not many people who will say that HBS was a breath of fresh air. But it was just, you know, it was gave me time to think, to feel and just to figure out what work meant to me, what a workplace should be like. And so when I came back to Jamaica, I was i had a whole new outlook.
00:12:35
Speaker
on leadership and organizations and so on. And so my next job, when I came back to Jamaica, I um was running a food processing and distribution company. And man, Krista, that was joy. Really? Really? I was a different leader.
00:12:57
Speaker
I led differently. i yeah it was And so that was the the beginning of really seeing the impact that just turning up every day joyfully and helping others. And there were tough times with in that business as well. But I just saw the impact that one could have when you kept joy at the forefront.
00:13:23
Speaker
So I then went into consulting, coaching, my own business. And then I i started to be a little to broach the subject of joy with my clients. And they're like, I figured.
00:13:39
Speaker
But then what i don't I want to say one day I decided, I'm sure there's one day I decided, but don't ask me what it was. But I said, you know, I'm just going to step out in joy and I'm going to be bold about joy.
00:13:52
Speaker
So I started to talk about joy and people were like, what is this? But then slowly, I just noticed that people said, oh, Marguerite, you know, I really like this joy thing. That's interesting. And then, you know, I go to a client's office and I remember this one. I went to the client's office and I said, what's your Wi-Fi guest password? And she said, Marguerite, you will not be believe what it is. It's ease, grace and joy.
00:14:22
Speaker
because Ease, Grace, and Joy is my little mantra that I want to share with them. Got it. And I'm like, oh, got it. I have another client who has Ease, Grace, and Joy in their mission statement. Wow. And they're like, OK, this thing is possible, but I have to be bold about it. So I think the boldness probably started maybe about 10 years ago before I was like a little timid around it.
00:14:52
Speaker
as you can imagine. And then, like you said, there's a lot of talk now usually about happiness at work, not joy. right Interesting. Yes. And so, you know, you had Harvard Business Review starting to write about it, people starting to talk about happiness at work. And so I'm like, okay,
00:15:15
Speaker
this is happening, I need to step in this place because there's a place for me in this world. So that's been the joy journey so far. yes Yeah, it that it's really astounding to me. And I mean that because when I read that you do the work, your work in the business world, and I thought,
00:15:35
Speaker
Is that an oxymoron? To have joyful, but I mean, I know there are some places that are that way, but when I think, let me say my own bias, when I think about the larger business world, I don't think about joyful places. women my second My second thought was,
00:15:53
Speaker
I was was and am really curious about how places receive you when you're talking about joy. It's often considered a soft skill to talk about emotions and feelings, which are you know obviously have heavy, heavy emphasis on how we show up and make decisions.
00:16:09
Speaker
But i just I was so curious about that. So I love hearing you say that you took charge of that, you recognized it, and you really stepped into it confidently and courageously. yeah And I want to go back to one thing you said, if we can, about how after business school, you showed up differently and joyfully. yeah do you Can you pinpoint what that meant? Are there examples of how you lived into that differently?
00:16:34
Speaker
I think I was much more caring about the people that were that I was working with. um i was I was more confident um because you know when before, when I was 23, I was confident. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I'm like, what am I doing here?
00:16:57
Speaker
But when I came back, you know, okay, having a Harvard MBA, woo, muscle in one hand and you're confident and you know everything and you're going to change the world and so on. But I honestly think I was much more caring. I was less judgmental. I was more compassionate. And and i and I think that those just just played into the connections that I was making with my my team members. So I just You know what sounds weird? I came from a place of love. Yeah, it's not just that. I didn't do that before. Yes. and And which is another word that we don't use. Yes. yeah word Yeah. So I think that was it. I came from a different place and that that that experience really validated that. Oh, yeah. Joy is great. Now, one of the things with all of this absurd joy happiness is at is in.
00:17:53
Speaker
is that there's research. Yes. So that's good because people are doing the research that shows there's a clear business profit value proposition yes about happy employees are more engaged and more engaged employees means your profitability is 30% higher and your product productivity is 32% higher. So there are so I can be armed with these these yeah um information.
00:18:22
Speaker
But even nobody really asks for it. Really? No. Really? Because but again, here's my bias. When you were saying that, I was thinking, yes, that's probably the way you lead. that Do you want to increase engagement by this much? And this' oh here's how we do it. And it's not what you might expect. It's actually love and joy. So that's so interesting. I'll throw out the numbers. I'll throw out the numbers. But they're like, because they know they have a problem. They know they have a problem.
00:18:50
Speaker
that overt in terms, I mean, I coach CEOs and and they're C-suite. And I run over it in terms of, oh, you must be joyful. I just work with them and like, okay. First thing I ask them is, how happy are you? Questions, how happy are you and how stressed are you? I'm like, okay, we have work to do here. And that opens up a conversation around, okay,
00:19:17
Speaker
Is this how you're turning up at work? Unhappy and stressed? And so how do you expect your team to perform if you're leading this team in this way? And so we work on that. I don't see it in that way. That's almost very prescriptive. I'm very kind with my clients. I really, really am. We have some great fun times. We laugh.
00:19:42
Speaker
but I also hold it more comfortable. Yes. That balance, that, that, I don't even see if it's a balance, but that harmony yeah of, leading from a place of love and accountability, not just this is yours to do, figure it out, but I'm here to support you. And let's be really honest about what's happening about you show up, how you show up, how that affects other people. And um something you said about, oh, you said um that when you came back from business school, you led with love.
00:20:13
Speaker
And you also came back more confident. And it's, again, interesting to me that you didn't have to be that way. you know To come back from Harvard Business School and to have this you know degree and to know these skills, you didn't have to infuse that with love and compassion. You could have very much been confident in leaning toward arrogant and demanding. you know And so you chose, you actively chose, which I am admiring, and you actively chose love and compassion and what a difference it made. And then that launched, you know, just to where you are. So I think that, and and so I'm assuming that that is also true about how you walk into C-suites and work with the leaders is that they can sense
00:21:00
Speaker
that you know what you're talking about, yeah and that you're coming very genuinely. So I just, and it makes sense to me, because that was a puzzle. I'm like, how is she getting these people to listen to Joy, even love? Yeah, we don't talk about love. Well, you know, it's not listening. First of all, when I walk into the room, they see Joy. yeah well they do You know, I am like glowing and hi, how are you? And wonderful to meet you. and but but I was referred to a client about two years ago, and we met on Zoom. And our very first call, we turn on the Zoom, and we just look at each other and start laughing. I love it. I mean, like, immediate connection, Krista. We just started to laugh with each other. And eating when we come on, we laugh. He's ah a CEO of a very successful business sit in Jamaica. So ah ah so yeah. yeah
00:21:57
Speaker
You have to be it. Yes. So the work has to be done before you even get to the office or the Zoom meeting or wherever. That's why, i'm you know, all my clients know, no, you got to do your morning ritual. Do your mind, body, spirit. You get yourself grounded. By the time you get to work, you are like, hmm, just ready for whatever. Because you and I know stuff is going to cover it. Oh, yes.
00:22:25
Speaker
So you've got to ground yourself. And unfortunately, many people don't and many executives don't, you know, wake up, reach for the phone, start looking at the bad news. and This is always bad. Yes. I mean, I don't touch my phone for two hours.
00:22:47
Speaker
i' look at so I don't know what has happened. yeah Anything can happen. right That is my time. yes Ground, meditate, do yoga, whatever, my journaling and that kind of thing. And ah then I'm ready to turn off the best version of me for that day, for my times and anyone else that I happen to eat.
00:23:09
Speaker
Hmm, yeah, I mean, those practical, very pragmatic and very necessary grounding techniques. i know I know that there are some of those people who may have heard, but to hear you say that you practice it and the difference it makes, and about not touching your phone, you know, there is this like, I also don't do that unless I need to check the weather really quickly and I'm like, I'm not looking at anything else. I just want to i need to know real quickly if I can take a walk and I don't look at anything else.
00:23:37
Speaker
but For me, that is a game changer because I've had to learn there are there's always something going on. Always. I can control very little of it. What's represented in larger media and social media included is not more than likely going to be something joyful.
00:23:55
Speaker
or you know Yeah, and so do I want to ground myself in that? Is that how I want to start my day? I don't. No, I don't. um But it took a long time. But I also I will get up as early as I need to to make sure I have at least an hour, maybe an hour and a half. And then sometimes I it's time is up and I'm like, Oh, man.
00:24:12
Speaker
but Now I need to transition. you know but But it does for me, it does make a difference that I take that with me. Whatever's coming my way, it's like, okay. This is true, but this is also true. There's also joy. yeah And I can i can find and an anchor in that. So so one of the things I share with my clients in this morning ritual, I call it, it it doesn't have to be an Awa like you or two Awas like me.
00:24:45
Speaker
Six minutes. and Exactly. Six minutes. Do some deep breathing. Read whatever your spiritual reading might be. Sit silently for two minutes. Just sit with your eyes closer to just six minutes. And it makes a big difference. It's like a nice inhale.
00:25:06
Speaker
exhale and then you can go out the door, pick up your phone or whatever. So it doesn't have to be long. No. Start off with five or six minutes, better than nothing. Exactly. Yeah. And I think I so appreciate you saying that because I think that people can much more easily glean that, you know, from that, like, okay, if you say two hours, people are like, yeah, I don't have time for that. and and understandably but But really that five minutes, and even um I encourage people to set timers throughout the day. You know, yeah not can you, when can you set time throughout the day? And it can be three minutes, it can be five minutes, but just whatever's there is not going to go away. It'll be there when you get back. And so, but just encouraging people to do that also, because it I find
00:25:49
Speaker
the day can just wind out of control and I'm just, you know, so tightly wound by midday or whatever. One little thing happens. Yeah. Yeah. And especially, we you know, with Zoom and the pandemic and so on, where we just went back to back meetings, you know, people say, oh, well, I have a hard stop. I'm like, why do you have a hard stop? Put 15 minutes space. You do know that a meeting can start at 1007. Yes. The only meeting to start at 1009 or 10, 15 or whatever. It doesn't have to start on the hour. Okay. So you can do that, but put some space, and drink a glass of water, get up and walk, you know, do whatever you need to do. But this going from one Zoom meeting to the other, I've had people who are on two Zoom meetings at the same time.
00:26:43
Speaker
And you tell me joyful and happiness. Oh, no. Joy couldn't hit you. And you wouldn't even know what happened. No, you'll completely miss it. and you know And that's the thing I think I noticed, I have noticed, is that the more I am grounded in what how I am embodying joyfulness and not it's not about bypassing. I didn't hear you say this at all. It's not about bypassing the difficult things, the hard things, the sorrow, the suffering.
00:27:11
Speaker
It's just remembering that that's not all there is, even when things are exceptionally overwhelming, you know, yeah personally at work. there's always something else, even if it's a tiny, tiny thing. yeah And I think that has been so, it has been the lifeline that I have needed at work, at home, out in the world, and it makes such a huge difference. And so I can hear, I hear the love and the the reminder that you're offering and, you know, can we be more mindful about that, which is something you also do. You do mindfulness coaching, is that right? I do, yes, mindfulness meditation. In the pandemic, i
00:27:49
Speaker
I literally, Krista, I got a vision that Sunday. I literally, I was out on a walk with my dog. Thank God I have the dog because she kept me sane during the pandemic. And I literally just had this vision of myself teaching meditation when I'm 70, which is not that far off, right? And so I came right back to my desk and I, and found meditation training. And I did it. And that's also been ah helpful. Yes, I've always had it not always, but for many years, I've had a meditation practice, along with yoga and stuff, but but to be able to help others to guide them through to, to teach them to coach them through meditation has been a wonderful and and many times I don't even say, let's meditate, I'll just
00:28:49
Speaker
I was in a workshop the other day, the team came back, they were all very, they were loud and noisy. And I'm like, okay, okay, can everybody just sit down? Okay, can you just close your eyes? And we just went like this. And we just sat there, okay, just breathe. Because that's meditation. Yes, it is. It's not this big thing, you know, it's sometimes we make it into this big thing. We just, as you said,
00:29:15
Speaker
sitting mindfully, just a few minutes seconds or minutes. It's all you need to just regrown and recenter yourself. That's what leadership is about. If you're not centered, how are you going to lead people? You cannot, not in any effective way.
00:29:32
Speaker
No. That's when it becomes stressful, not just for them, but for you. For you, exactly. yeah yeah I think I love that you're talking about, you know, destigmatizing meditation so that people art can understand what it does. Like some people want to hear the science behind it. Okay. There's clearly science behind it. I'll send you the links. Yes, exactly.
00:29:54
Speaker
And in my experience, there are some people who really want to know that. And other people are like, I'm good. Just leave me through it. I'll i'll know it when I feel it. But it does help to have that. And it it there is you know it explains why. But I love what you said about just be still for a minute. Let your body regulate, self-regulate. It's not necessarily a religious practice. It doesn't have to be tied to any person. It is your body's nervous system re-centering, resetting, realigning. That's right. The difference is palpable. I mean, you don't have to be a meditation expert. Your breath changes, right? That's all. It all, yes. So I love that. Yeah. mut So that's a very important um practice. when When the pandemic started, I'm sure you probably read this book, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind.
00:30:49
Speaker
her i um You know, like all of us in the early days of COVID, we're like trying to grasp at things to make sense of this thing and figure out what was happening. And I i was guided to that book. I'd read it at least once before, cover to cover. And that book just really helped. I mean, even just the steps that he um takes you through, we wing aligning your spine,
00:31:21
Speaker
the breathing, focusing on the breath, you know, it just made all the difference. And then, you know, in the, in the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities in the expert's mind. There are few. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's such liberation because now I don't have to be an expert on anything because nobody can be an expert on anything. So that's why I felt comfortable telling you,
00:31:49
Speaker
You know, I really haven't defined joy.
00:31:54
Speaker
You know, I have to open to the possibilities of the different ways to experience joy. And if I start with finding it and feeling this is a definition, I'm cutting it off. So that, yeah, it's just opening up to the possibilities. And I think for what is leadership all about? It's leading our team.
00:32:18
Speaker
to a bigger, brighter future. Possibilities. When there are uncertainties, crises, and so on, you can't be going down the same street and narrow. What are you looking for? Possibilities. So you really want to approach everything with a beginner's mind. And to me, that starts with that that stillness. I want to call it meditation.
00:32:40
Speaker
and this cool this yeah And you know, I think you made this point. It's so important when you, it's always important. And it's also important when you're talking about teams. If you're a leader who is isolating people and you want to place blame when things go wrong and you, you know, how you make people feel or how people feel in response to what you do or don't do or say can shut off those possibilities. And that's the beauty about joy, right? It's this opening to the possibility of wholeness.
00:33:08
Speaker
What does it mean to be a whole team? yeah Here's a possibility we might not have considered individually and or. If the leader had shown up differently, I might've held back on my idea because I didn't feel it was a space I could do that, right? So it's like, we're all in this together. This is going to affect all of us differently. What are the possibilities? And to me, that's different from, you didn't do your job, you missed this email, right? It's a very different approach. And you have this quote that I love and it speaks to this, I think, but I saw this on your website.
00:33:40
Speaker
Oh. When people are tuned into their true selves, they act from a place of presence, grace, joy, and authenticity, enriching the life of others. And and that's really where you started saying, I'm not quite sure that I want to box joy in this way, right, that authenticity. But to me, all of that speaks to how your work is transformational. And it sounds like that's the way that you try to lead.
00:34:08
Speaker
I hope so, um because I really would would like to... Not that I'm hung up on legacy, because it's not for me to determine my legacy. Others will say what my legacy was, but I really want to leave the world a better place than having been here. That even one person just says, gosh, you know that Marguerite Orange, she merely made a difference in my life. Just one person, one, and that's three children.
00:34:38
Speaker
Hopefully they will. They better say yes. We'll see. We'll see. Yeah. I do think, again, I think whether it's up to, I never thought about that, that maybe it's not up to us to define our legacy, but I do think I do think my role here is to be the most authentic, beautiful version of myself that invites other people to do the same. yeah Not easy when I disagree with somebody like a major, not not just a disagreement, but like a harm to other people kind of disagreement yeah and potentially.
00:35:16
Speaker
But if I can show up that way and I can't do that when I am so so heavily weighed down by stress or anger or fear or isolation, right? And so all of those things just, it makes such a difference to open up. And so I love that you do that with people, for people, and you have three books that do that, right? I have two. Let me show off my books.
00:35:41
Speaker
So this is the first one, free and laughing, spiritual insights and everyday moments. And this came from a blog that I had done. And the story of this, and this was a journey of joy in and of itself. So the story was that in 2008 December, my mom, 2007 December, my mom was going to celebrate her 90th birthday.
00:36:05
Speaker
and We planned this party for her and I was thinking, what am I going to give Mommy? What am I going to give Mommy? What am I going to give Mommy? Because, you know, she didn't need it. You get to know me. All you want is health and your loved ones are on you and you and some good food and. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, you're happy, right? And they hit me one day. Well, do a book. So I sat down one day in September. We actually had a tropical storm in Jamaica and I just went for all my blogs. It was such a
00:36:37
Speaker
journey. I went through all the blogs, pull them together, printed them all, pull them together. They fell out into six chapters. And her birthday was in December, so I had to get it printed. I didn't know about print on demand, so I had to get a thousand copies printed. Oh my gosh. And then we I launched the book in December in Jamaica, fabulous launch, gave it to her. She was over the move.
00:37:07
Speaker
Well, let me tell you, Crystal, I always reflect on this experience about what motivates you. Because when, like my motivation was pure, on a day adulterated love for my mother. Let me tell you how the whole process of this book flowed with his grace and joy. The right people came out, the right people just emerged at the right time to edit, to design it. It was uncanny and I reflect on it. I'm like, yeah.
00:37:49
Speaker
when your intentions are pure love, the universe just opens up and just said, here my dear, here, accept. And of course, if you have a place of pure love, you are open to accepting. So that was done in 2008. And then when I moved to Canada, I decided to learn how to write. So I think to do things backwards.
00:38:16
Speaker
So I did a creative writing certificate at the University of Toronto and we had a final project. So I pull, I said, well, I'm not writing 25,000 words and it's not a book. So I did my second book. Forget it. What's the point? huh Letting go and claiming joy and more stories. And the joy in this, and I'm going to send you a copy, is that guess who wrote the foreword?
00:38:45
Speaker
Archbishop Tutu. Really? Oh, wow. yeah My coach said to me, who's going to write the forward? I said, Archbishop Tutu. And he said, well, suppose Archbishop can't do it. I said, well, then there will be no forward. Oh, no, that's right.
00:39:03
Speaker
I need some manifesting work with you because you are doing it. You've got to tell the universe some very clear messages. This is what's happening. You know, I'm embarked on my third book, which is about joyful leadership. And my commitment is to publish it by having launched and by november in November. OK, OK. Yes. Oh, I'll keep that. but I'll keep those good vibes going up.
00:39:31
Speaker
Oh, that, you know, I mean, when you said that, it gave me chills. I wrote, what happens when love is our motivation, oh which you've spoken to more than once. You've almost started with that and you keep coming back to that. And the fact that you, I think you're so right. Whatever we do, let it be in love. And yeah no, leadership is not separate from that.
00:39:52
Speaker
That's right. But the fact that you've been able to crack that business. I don't know if I've cracked it. I'm just trying. Well, look, if you have a few leaders listening, because they obviously talk, you know, and but to I find this in the spaces where I do racial equity work and training, we start talking about love. And people are like, what are you talking about? Why are you bringing up love? You know, it's joy with joy. And it took me a while to get there. I'm not saying I started off in that.
00:40:20
Speaker
it does Yeah, but but to recognize it, I mean, I think that's the thing about joy. The more you ponder it, the more you um live in it, the more questions you have about how it can show up and the more spaciousness you offer, and the more or I should say I offer, yeah it offers to me. And the more possibilities I see about where else joy might be possible in places I did not think it could.
00:40:45
Speaker
you know, in ways I didn't think it could exist. And yeah, I see it, you know, coming from a third world country, you will find joy in the most unlikely places. I bet you will. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you see abject poverty. I've been into um the prison. And I saw joy in there.
00:41:06
Speaker
yeah So never know you really don't. Oh, wow. I love that. And, you know, I think i I have a couple more things I'd love to hear you talk about briefly. One of them is.
00:41:19
Speaker
given that you are this, what I'm perceiving as this ball of light and joy, truly in the best sense of being a light worker and sharing all of your light with people, when is it hard for you to harness joy or to really connect with joy? And what what do you do with that? How do you work your way back to it? So typically,
00:41:43
Speaker
It's when my body is not working the way that I want it to. So I've been through the last two years, I'm through that process now of um having a slip disk, currently a slip disk. And then while I was going through the slip disk, didn't know what it was, I fractured my foot.
00:42:06
Speaker
I could say you like this, I had a meditation retreat, but that's a long story. And there were times when I was really challenged to walk. yeah I've always been very active. Grew up my dad, my old parents always had us being active. But we played sports, we did ballet, we did everything. So to at this stage just have my body, you know, just challenging me. yeah And what I've learned through that process is that, you know, your body is always present.
00:42:42
Speaker
your mind is in the past or in the future. and So we're in this moment where your body is president. If something, if I prick my finger, my my body is going to react to that prick. that's right You know, okay, she's pricked her finger. We need to get those white blood cells to get that ward off infection. The mind is, oh, it's nothing and I can't stop to look after it. And so,
00:43:08
Speaker
So the times recently when I really realized is when my body's just not ah operating team at what I call a hundred percent. And of course with the aging process, and we're always aging, geez. It seems. And you realize, and then they're always, oh, you know, you're going to slow down. And I'm like, no, I don't want to slow down. I want to do everything that I always do.
00:43:36
Speaker
And so that was a real, there were times during that process of healing the back and the foot. I had to be in a boot for three months and that kind of thing. I had fun. I mean, I had fun going in a wheelchair when I traveled. I'm like, yeah, this is great. Faster. But there were times, I would say I was depressed, but I was dumb. I wondered, you know, would I ever be able to walk 10,000 steps again because I could barely walk around the block. I had to stop when I was, you know, walking my dog and that kind of thing. And that really stole my joy. hey That was challenging. And what got me through that was, you know, just faith. I mean, there I couldn't do yoga. It was that bad. it couldnt I couldn't even sit in a cross legged position. Yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
And so that kind of went through. So I had to just sit um and stillness as best as I could, lots and lots of affirmations. And also I'm a very action oriented person. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to find a solution to this. There must be a solution in opening up to the possibilities.
00:44:56
Speaker
And so I'm better now, but but that was a real that has been a real challenge, though the body, the physical. um The mind, it's okay, I know how to... um you know, come back from that. I'm feeling negative thoughts. I'm like, journal, write my affirmations, vent, put, I'm back to work. I'm ready, yes. Why the body? Yes. You know, it it's so, yeah, I mean, I'm thinking, I'm feeling the sensations as you're talking and just thinking about limitations, which is one way to think about it. Also, we could think about it as a ah time for contemplation and transformation. But wow, that physical,
00:45:40
Speaker
stop, right? That's something different. At least for me, it would be not just the physical, it would be the mind also going way ahead of me, like, you'll never do this again. And, you know, just like I used to do, past or present or future, as you said. And it's it's such a, yeah I'm not sure if you know this work, I'm assuming you do, but Van Der Kolk's work on the body keeps the score.
00:46:01
Speaker
How do I go? but That sounds really good. Powerful book. Powerful book, because he's talking about, I think he did his research with veterans, but he's talking about trauma and how it lives in the body, yeah whether we acknowledge it or not. So even if we're not having this extreme, a slipped disc and ah a fractured foot, we're there's always ways that our body is absorbing shock and trauma, right? And a lot of times we don't get those overt messages that strongly.
00:46:30
Speaker
but we're still getting clues that we need to slow down or pay attention. And so something that outrageous is hard to ignore, but he just talks about how even when it's not that extreme, we're always getting clues and the body keeps a record of everything that happens so we can either Pay attention to the record. We can offer it other possibilities. and Or we can we end up sick and ill and it takes its toll and it accumulates. Right. So it's never a benign experience. Right. It's a powerful book and it it's probably I'm going to check it out. Thank you. Yeah, I doubt it's new to you in terms of the content. But go ahead. Yeah. Well, you know, it's sometimes it's not even that you're sick. It's just that you're not well. Yes, true. True. Yeah, and I just you just not.
00:47:16
Speaker
my mom always used to say, just stop feeling myself. Yeah, yes not feeling myself. So, but but yeah, so that was a long journey. And that was a real, real challenge. Yes. Well, I mean, you said that and you mentioned having a couple of really dark times in your life. And I think when I think about those things, like my mother just recently passed away. And so that is one of the worst times I can imagine. yeah And I'm just thinking about how things like learning patterns and paying attention to behaviors and beliefs and all of that work that even though it was a tumultuous, very painful time,
00:47:59
Speaker
there were some possibilities in that for joy, right? There were possibilities of saying, oh my gosh, I get to be with my mom and he'll take care of her, right? yes I get to witness things about my behavior that I may not have otherwise in a time of crisis. And and i again, I'm not wishing it. I'm not saying it was wanted, but just I guess I learned there are always possibilities for how we can be joyfully present, even when things are horrible around us. And it was such an important reminder. yeah And I would just say some of the anchors for me, because I'm curious about your joy anchors or things that really anchor you in joy. And some of those for me were
00:48:43
Speaker
journaling and reflecting and curiosity and gratitude. Yeah. and you Digging, what are some of those things for you? Joy Anchors, I call them. Yeah. So journaling. I've been journaling, oh my gosh, decades, right? I first started journaling. I mean, other than the dear diary thing when you're on TV, which is journaling.
00:49:06
Speaker
But I went to Tony Robbins' seminar and he said, I never forget, he said, that life we got these big journals. And he said, a life worth living is a life worth recording. ah yeah And I'm like, wow, yeah. So I've been a journaler. And my mom was a journaler. She used to journal, gratitude journaling. And my gratitude journal regularly. And if I need to vent, I mean, my my journal is just blank pages and I just sit there and I just write and all sorts of things come out. So if I'm feeling in any way unhinged and not joyful, I go to my journal and inevitably I just write it out. So that's one.
00:49:52
Speaker
I live in a condo, ninth floor, I have a little dog. So you know what that means, gotta walk her three times a day, right? And this is Toronto, so even in the snow, gotta to walk her. yeah um But just to see you how present this little dog is, and how joyful she is, and just so just to observe yes um experiences of joy. And typically, I hate to say that, it's not human. much well You know, flowers and bees and ladybugs and swans and oh birds and my dog just spinning her own in joy. When you get present to the bigger world around you and you realize, you know, I am so insignificant in this world. What am I?
00:50:48
Speaker
getting myself all, as we say in Jamaica, head up or out. I am like just a little blip in the infinitesimal period of time and space. So, you know, just hungry, just chill, will you? So I think, so the walks, I walk every, walk three times a day with her, sometimes more gratitude journaling for, for sure. And I just have stuff all around me. You don't have these little stones. Yes, me too. Buddhas.
00:51:25
Speaker
hey yeah A fresh flow of my physical environment is one of the things I i talk to my clients about, like, what's your office list like? ahhuh um You know, what does it feel like to walk into your office?
00:51:41
Speaker
her memo once, oh, I guess I coached her. she I just had to have had a call with her. She worked in the US and she said, you know, they weren't allowed to have things on their desk. Oh, wow. Personal things on their desk. I'm like, okay, just go and get a little, little thing, just a little picture or a little something and just have it it on a corner of the corner. Yes, and draw somewhere. Yes. Yeah. you know So why?
00:52:11
Speaker
But even though, why would you tell people in your office to bring personal stuff? Not joyful. Not very joyful at all.
00:52:22
Speaker
And I'm not sure if you saw, but I'm ah i um a laughter yoga leader, so I was trained in laughter yoga. I missed that one. I don't do it much anymore, but I do laugh. yes And that is the whole the whole idea behind and that is that you laugh. for all So you just laugh. So like that client who's not a client. We just looked at each other and we just started to laugh.
00:52:50
Speaker
i Oh, ah you know, all emotions are contagious. They are yeah um and laugh because you feel if you you know, anger, frustration, fear, that energy. Yes. Transmittable. And so if you can transmit laughter, yeah, why not? You know, in our laughter yoga leader training, they said that when you're laughing, you're so present, it's impossible to pull the trigger. wago and Oh, wow. Ooh. So we just need you to clone yourself, Margie. We can go around the whole world laughing hysterically so we can avoid the violence. Oh, that would be awesome. Awesome. i so I saw this. In fact, it reminds me because another thing I saw on your page that I laughed about and I'm dating myself, I'm in Chicago. Yeah. And I grew up in Kansas City. But I remember this tagline kind of from
00:53:45
Speaker
commercial years ago, it was don't leave home without it. Yes. And you have don't leave home, don't lead home without your joy. right right ah That's a great pun. There's so much in there. Joy. That's the whole thing about, you know, centering yourself in the morning before you get to work. If you leave joy until you get to work, believe me, yeah you're because you'll be unsteady. You'll be unstable. It just doesn't work. No, it doesn't. youre And when people talk about self-care, which I think is an overused term now, you know, self-care, what do you really mean? Yes. It's grounding yourself and centering yourself.
00:54:25
Speaker
means just coming into your own being, connecting with the earth. Yes. This is with the earth and just knowing that you're part of this huge, huge universe and you're just here for a little in time and the rest of it.
00:54:40
Speaker
That's humbling. It really is to me, you know the the thought about being interconnected and like you said, a little blip in the vastness of you know humans behaving badly a lot of the times, but but animals behaving just as they do instinctively and nature being instinctive unless we disrupt it. And just to just be present to that, i just I think I'm so grateful for all the things that you have, you've given this,
00:55:08
Speaker
really wide range of ways to think about joy in a very short time, very short time. I'd love to see you lead this laughter yoga or something. Cause I mean, just thinking about it makes me laugh. So it must be good for me. Are there other things as we wrap up, I want to be conscious of your time. Are there other things you'd like for listeners to know about you or your work or joy or anything?
00:55:33
Speaker
So I coach leaders on being the best leader they can be. And I coach them and I, and my little joy journey of joy, which is journey of you. me oh why And what it is, is a about not helping you to be a leader like soands so-and-so or like so-and-so, but who are you that were authentic?
00:55:56
Speaker
Yeah. Who are you and who do you authentically want to be? and And because when you figure that out and when you're clear on that, then what you do will align and you will turn up that way more often than not. Of course, they're going to be bad days. And so, you know, people can reach me on LinkedIn, Marguerite Doreen. I'm Marguerite Doreen everywhere. Instagram, Facebook.
00:56:24
Speaker
and my website margaritorian.com. I have a blog that I do every two weeks and you know, you can check that out as well and just reach out to me. I just love to, you know, I don't know about you, Crystal, but you know, any work from home type of thing, or this is my world headquarters. Ditto, welcome to mine. You know, I'm happy when somebody calls me or reaches out to me because it can get a little lonely sometimes. I agree. I agree. Many of your listeners, you know, want to reach out to me and say, hey, Margaret, you know, can you help me? Or, you know, I have a question. I'm always just
00:57:07
Speaker
wanting to connect with people because we humans, we're social beings, we are pack animals, we need each other and that works best when we do it joyfully in harmony and that does not mean there won't be conflicts and arguments, we get through them, that's right.
00:57:33
Speaker
I love what you said too, as we close, just, you know, this journey of you as joy joy. I think, I mean, again, I know we're not limiting joy to a definition, but that is one of the best I've heard in terms of how we think about joy journey of you, because that's really what it is. It's like in this journey of your experience, how are you authentically connected to yourself and other people? And how is that joyful? So, oh, I love that. I love just still close that.
00:58:03
Speaker
thought of. um I add to that when I'm, you know, in talking with my clients around that in one on one coaching or workshops, leadership development or even strategy. I'd also do joyful strategy. I love strategy. I didn't talk about that part. I love strategic planning. wo Yeah, because that's when you get to take the joy out into the world and hold you delight customers and help them to have joyful experiences. That's another story. But what else is you realize that in the entirety of human existence, there has never been
00:58:46
Speaker
a margarita ring like this, and there never will be. This is it. hey Whoa. i hate Yeah, that's either uplifting or pressure. Well, I don't know what I'm like, okay. Yeah, it could be pressure. It's uplifting. it's uplifting. Well, and I think it you know it too it also just says that you get to be the author of that, and you get to choose that, and you get to decide. And so, yeah, we could talk about that all day. But yeah, you're the author, and you options are wide open. They are. you know indefinate In the beginning of Spain, there are.
00:59:22
Speaker
any possibilities of the expert mind, there are a few. That's a live quote that a great way for us to close, Marguerite. I mean, I really feel like we could talk for hours because we could do that another time. But I just want to say how grateful I am because I'm always amazed when people say yes to come on. And especially because we didn't have a connection before.
00:59:45
Speaker
And I mean, beyond the work, of course, but just laughing with you, hearing your voice, hearing your, the way you truly do approach your work from a place of love, which is different and that you name that explicitly. Oh gosh, it just makes my whole day. So I'm i'm a really. Thank you, Krista. It's been a joy. Agreed. Agreed. Thank you so much. Thank you. know Thank you so much for joining me on this podcast, Marguerite. It was such a pleasure and I just felt joyful the entire time, listening to you, watching the way you light up when you talk about your work and hearing you talk about practices that really support you in grounding and centering every day.
01:00:33
Speaker
even when things are not easy. Listeners, if you don't have Marguerite's books, I encourage you to pick them up. She kindly shared them with me and they are lovely reminders and practices about how we really anchor, enjoy. Her first book, Forget It, What's the Point? and her additional book, Free and Laughing. And as she said, she's also working on a third book,
01:01:00
Speaker
So if you don't have them, I think you'll really enjoy them. I'm looking forward to the rest of this season. Marguerite helped us kick it off. And I have so many wonderful, wonderful women who have agreed to come on and talk with us about what joy is like for them and how they practice it and struggles they've had.
01:01:23
Speaker
We will have at least one author joining us. We will have some other practitioners come on and talk about their spiritual work. Just a range of people who really are eager to share with you and I'm eager to present them to you.
01:01:38
Speaker
Thank you so much again for joining. I am not a therapist. I am a woman on a joy journey and I invite you to come along. I'm Krista Robinson Lyles, your host for the Joy Anyhow podcast. May we all be well and may joy be our anchor in liberation.