Transcript
Speaker: Are you ready? Si. Okay. My lord. My lady.
Speaker: my lord my lady Welcome to the Jeff and Sam show. I'm Jeff. And I'm Sam. Hi, Sam. Hi, Jeff. It's been so long. It has been. oh What's you been up to? um You know, kimpishly traveling the world and keeping myself wildly entertained.
Speaker: Just spent two weeks while you guys were listening to me on pre-recorded shows. I was um in Amsterdam and that and then in Switzerland.
Speaker: Okay. um How was Amsterdam for Pride? like what just Like, how was it? I can imagine. Um, it was fantastic. It was world pride. world pride First time that Amsterdam has hosted world pride, uh, which is a huge deal because Amsterdam is one of the most LGBTQ friendly. And this is the first time first time they've hosted it. It is the 25th anniversary. it was the 25th anniversary of a legalization of gay marriage too. So it was even bigger.
Speaker: um and it was super cool. It was, um,
Speaker: It was amazing. Yeah. It was amazing. I mean, just the population that was there and the way that the whole city was just like, oh, yeah, you know, it's its pride.
Speaker: So everything was all... And everybody's probably on board with it there. Like, oh yeah. Gay, straight, doesn't matter. yeah i mean, the KLM, um, Instagram thing that you shared with me. oh my God.
Speaker: There was, uh, Icelandair just did the same thing. saw that. I saw that. Yeah. Just, just extraordinary. And, uh, It was a blast. It looked amazing. Yeah. um And yeah, you know, I mean, similar to Norway, I still have to go through and like actually make a post about it because being there and in the moment, like...
Speaker: wanting to live in it um and not be on social media. I mean by the by the end of the day, just every day, it was just doing things all day, every day. So by the end of the day, it was like, oh, time to crash. And so when I should have been putting posts on there whatever, I wasn't. So um I will eventually take the time to go through all of our Norway album and finally make a post that,
Speaker: does its best to do justice to that trip and then also put some more on there about Amsterdam and or the Netherlands and Switzerland um because There was just so much.
Speaker: And, you know, I'll talk about it more in depth on a later episode where I kind of just word vomit all of it. That sounds so good to me. Also, then you went to Switzerland. Yeah, Switzerland, where you ate at, I think it is now our favorite little restaurant. Hands down. I think every time we go to Switzerland, what's the name of the restaurant? The Pump Station. Oh, my God. Talk about not fancy, right?
Speaker: It is... Just such a cool little, it's a shack. It's a shack. The grill is outdoors. It's like under umbrellas. um and it's so funny because this time, every time I've been there, um I've had the same waiter. um Seriously? Yeah. And this year he recognized me. um And I was like, hey. That's amazing. Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. So cool. And it it is. It's the oldest ah sausage restaurant in Zurich. Okay. Like, tell me, what did you have to eat? um I had the pork sausage. Okay. Bratwurst. Yeah. And honestly... and it came with the little piece of bread on it? With the bread, with the mustard. Boom. um And I got the truffle fries and a very big, very perfectly timed beer. um Because that was... We flew in from Amsterdam.
Speaker: And we landed, I think, around 11. the...
Speaker: took the the cab to the hotel in Zurich, um, which was also perfectly located. Everything was great about it. Um,
Speaker: And then the room wasn't quite ready yet. And the lady at the front was like, if you come back in an hour, say like you know, and I said, perfect. So we went right over to the water, right to the pump station and got some food. And then by the time we were done, room was ready.
Speaker: And, uh, that's when you sent me the picture. you sent yeah Yeah. We had just gotten in like, like an hour before then. um Did you go to any other city besides Zurich?
Speaker: Yeah. um So when I go on these trips, you know, I have like a central hub or like a home base. And then um I take day trips out to other places in those countries. um So in um the Netherlands from Amsterdam...
Speaker: um
Speaker: there was a day trip to a place called Geithorn, which is spelled Geithorn, which is literally translated to Goathorn. And they call it the the Venice of um the Netherlands because it's all canals, there's no cars. um Like you have to take a boat to get to your house and it it was adorable. It was so just peaceful and it's,
Speaker: Um, no motorized boats or anything on there. So it's very quiet and it was just lovely. um and then o we also did,
Speaker: oh
Speaker: sorry, my brain is like, the one I'm really wondering about is, um, Geneva. So we didn't go to Geneva this year. okay um Cause I did not get my picture of the house that Lord Byron rented. know. I know. I was Googling that. Like, I don't even think you can see it from the street.
Speaker: Yeah. No. yeah Um, yeah. So I didn't do Geneva this year. um Oh, i we did a day trip to Bruges um from Amsterdam as well, which was stunning and gorgeous and magnificent. And it just, like, the history and, oh, so wonderful.
Speaker: um And then from Zurich, did a trip to Mount Riggi, which is called the Queen of the Mountains, and Lucerne, um which...
Speaker: We took a cable car up to almost, ah would say halfway up the mountain, Mount Riggi. And then after that, we hopped on a train and took it all the way to the top. um And that was such an extraordinary experience. It was beautiful. um Was it warm?
Speaker: It was, it was at the first stop because we were in the clouds at that point, it was chilly. And then once we got above the clouds up to the peak, um, or the summit, it was nice nice and warm, like tank tops and shorts. Um, but it's the views from the top of there. That's why they call it the queen. It's not the tallest peak obviously, but, um, 360 views and there's like four or five lakes that you can see from the top. wow Um,
Speaker: And so that was just majestic. And then we went down the train, um took a steamboat from Witznau to Lucerne. Look at you with all these names. I know. What? um And that was also majestic. um And then on another day from Zurich, we went to...
Speaker: um all over. We took a tour of like all of Switzerland. We did Grindelwald, Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen,
Speaker: Seltwald, Brienz. It was just It was amazing. And yeah the weather was fantastic. My favorite text from you was, um i don't know, there were some good ones, right? But then my favorite one was the one where you were exhausted. You had been there. You were in Zurich for a couple of days at this point, or Switzerland, and you texted me and you like you said, don't know.
Speaker: have been doing my no sleep Sam thing or something like that. But then you said, where what day and what time is it at home?
Speaker: That cracked me up. What, excuse me, what day and time is it at home? Yeah, man. Honestly, that's, I do, I do, I do go hard on vacation. i knew that, and my response to you was, it is Thursday, August, whatever, 1 p.m. Eastern time. Yeah, no, I would never guess that. Because I knew, i knew, I was like, she really has no idea. yeah um But yeah, i'll I'll dive more into details on a short, kind of later episode, but made some really, really astonishing friends. um And it just kind of makes you realize how small the world is because...
Speaker: um i mean, the fact that you have the same waiter at the pump station in Zurich, right on the lake there, yeah every time is pretty phenomenal, you know?
Speaker: Yeah, so it's a... um The only time it closes is if it rains, Um, open air seating right on the water.
Speaker: um
Speaker: It just, I mean, like if you're going to Zurich for something fancy, this is not your place. No. Not your place at all. The tables kind of wiggle a little bit on the concrete.
Speaker: ah You get the Wiener schnitzel and the piece of bread and your beer. You just chill the fuck out right on the water in Zurich. Yeah. And, it yeah, it it just... It's such a cool vibe. And I'm trying... i know there's something historical... The opera house? Yeah, but no, the about the pump station, how it's like the the oldest something something.
Speaker: i found it last year and I just am drawing a blank right now. um But yeah, it is it is my kind of vibe and it is the absolute perfect, perfect thing.
Speaker: Perfect. Well, while you were gone, I was mastering... Pilates, I mean, not that I was mastering Pilates, Pilates was kind of mastering me.
Speaker: But I've been doing it a lot. I'm so impressed with you and I'm proud of you. It's so much, not fun, i don't know if that's the right word, but like you get a lot out of it. I feel like I'm two inches taller when I walk out of that studio. oh But I don't know how to do it that well, and so there's a lady that sits right beside me.
Speaker: A couple of the times that I've been, and i think she's like 75, beautiful, gray hair, long hair. She's a pro, and so I just follow her.
Speaker: She doesn't know I'm kind of looking to see what she's doing to make sure I'm doing it right. She's so good at it. She probably totally knows. Oh, she totally does. And she loves it. Yeah. ah So that's what I've been doing. Also some good TV, Sam. Somebody has to stay here and work and watch TV and stuff like that, you know? Okay. So that was my thing.
Speaker: ah The show Lioness. Oh, yes. Have you seen it? Yes. You've seen that? Yes. You didn't tell me about it. oh my God. Really? Oh, Have you seen all three seasons? No.
Speaker: Don't ruin anything. Okay. I'm only on season two. Okay. Don't anything. That woman who, okay, there's Chloe Saldana. Zoe. Zoe so zoe Saldana. Nicole Kipman is in everything these days. God. She's also producer. Yeah. So is Zoe Saldana.
Speaker: But um in the first season, The Lioness, she's so beautiful, and I don't know her name. Yeah, I don't either. and I knew it at one point, but I don't know. Oh, what a good show. Yeah. um
Speaker: On the note of shows, um too. I don't know. Did I tell you about Department Q yet? I've seen a little bit of it. Okay. Yeah. I love it. I think it's so like funky, goofy. And I mean, it's a British.
Speaker: So there's a woman locked in a. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, and then also bodies on Netflix. have you seen that one yet? No, I have not seen that one. Okay. But somebody else recommended that. So that one, um like reading the about this or whatever you're like okay i think i can guess you can't guess is it time travel so yeah it's the perfect mix though of like sci-fi ishness and then um you can kind of semi sort of predict where some things are going um but the the
Speaker: ending was really, really, everything was really well done. Um, and it's obviously British. Love it. Uh, it's a crime series. It's great. Um, but it's a, it's a good, like quick, it's one of those limited series things. Six episodes and you're done. Yeah. Favorite.
Speaker: Yeah. So, um, yeah, suggest it. Um, and did you, so you tried watching department Q or you finished it? I don't know, it didn't, like, I wasn't really paying that much attention to it. I wanna go back and rewatch it because I kinda liked what I was seeing, but something else was happening, so.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. Cheers, Queers. We should cheers, Queers. Let's Twerish. Let's Twerish, Queers.
Speaker: Cheers. Cheers, Queers. So I'm drinking a Harris Teeter. I do love the hairy teat. The hairy teat limoncello. Oh, fancy. I'm drinking my high noon pineapple.
Speaker: You're welcome. Thank you, boo. You worked today. I thought, you know what? You know what? Sam needs yes a little high noon in her life. Sam needs it. Yeah. um What else? Anything else?
Speaker: Um... Anything I was going to tell you? i don't even know. It's been so long, Sam. I'm literally seeing you for the first time in two weeks. Yeah. um We have to give a shout out for Claire's birthday. um Tall, beautiful, magnificent nurse Claire. It was on the 8th.
Speaker: Oh, my God. Right? did not know. Happy birthday, Claire. I don't know if she listens, but I'll text her. going to make her listen. Okay. um So, yeah, happy birthday to her. i don't think...
Speaker: Anybody else is coming up in the next two days? Anyone that you can think of? What's today's date? She has no idea. August 11th. You did that to me before we recorded. it did. What is today's date? I'm like, I don't know. Come on.
Speaker: Don't do that to me. That's trickery. It is. It's bollocks. Bollocks. It's bollocks I tell you. Yeah. um You want a story? I do. And so just for those who are new listeners or old listeners who haven't heard for a while, normally we do. We each tell a story. um But today, because i did not write a story while I was traveling, um I am not telling a story. So Jeff will be filling your ears and brains. Somebody had to stay here and write a story. Work hard. Work hard. Also, you can find us on Instagram at the Jeff and Sam Show. Email us jeffandsamshow at gmail.com.
Speaker: Please give us some stars, some reviews, thumbs up, whatever it is on the app that you're listening. Like us, subscribe. It really helps us with the algorithm, right, Sam? It does indeed, because we're pretty fantastic. we're kind of are. At least we think so. So listen to us, rate us, share us. um We're not the most family friendly, so if you got little ones, maybe. Although occasionally a kid will sneak in here and listen to the show. Yeah.
Speaker: Occasionally. yeah um Everett, that's you. Yeah. Uh-huh. All right, so I was telling Dad about this story last night, right? Okay. And he started telling me it like about moonshiners and bootleggers down in Alabama, right?
Speaker: And in Cherokee County, where I'm from, there was this legendary Alabama moonshiner called Bill Tree Smith. And he ran like an open air blind tiger liquor operation for over 20 years.
Speaker: Blind, open air blind tiger? I guess blind tiger was the name of the operation, but it was like out in the open, right? Okay. Okay. He ran that thing for 20 years by chaining a bell to a large oak tree on the state line creek and letting customers drop off money and ring the bell to get the whiskey.
Speaker: So customers would put money and an order in the box at the tree and ring the bell. And either bill or tree, whatever he was called, or his sister would leave the whiskey and change without directly ever facing the buyers to protect their identities.
Speaker: He also, like, his property was right on the Alabama-Georgia state line. So when Alabama law came after him, he would move across the creek to Georgia. There you go.
Speaker: To avoid, you know, and vice versa. ah He was liked by all the people. He helped families in need. Okay, that's what you do. Listen. And he paid the local Baptist preacher's salary. I learned this all last night, and this is from where I'm from. There was also another guy named Willie McDaniel.
Speaker: He is from Cherokee County, who lived in Leesburg. Okay. Now, Willie was a county commissioner, but he was also a bootlegger. and That's the way to do it. That is the way to do it. And... ah Everybody knew that he was a bootlegger, but they still voted him in as county commissioner.
Speaker: Well, you might as well have someone that's illegal on the board because... what Yep. Absolutely. and So in a county that's dry, because my county that I'm from is still dry to this day. You cannot... So it's funny because that there are two towns in that county, the town that I'm from and the town across the bridge,
Speaker: that are wet, have this yeah the cities that are wet. So there's two cities in that county that are wet so they can sell liquor, but the county as a whole is still a dry county. Oh, man. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker: I mean, and I remember that was not the case until when I was an adult because when I was younger, we would have to drive to Georgia to get the liquor or to another town in another county to get our alcohol of any kind, beer, liquor, whatever.
Speaker: But then they made my town and the town across the bridge wet. But still, it is a dry county. There are such things as dry counties still. Well, yeah, I think I knew that. And it's either some place that I lived or maybe state, I don't know. But it was a dry county. And let me tell you,
Speaker: no No. We thought sin had moved in when they made these two towns wet. We were like, shit. Clutch my pearls.
Speaker: yeah But, yeah, so that's a little history for you from where I'm from. Okay? So what anyway, he told me this, and I was like, I have to share this shit. Also, my grandmother was friends with a bootlegger from Georgia. Hell yeah. Or had a crush on him or something. i don't know. She was kind of fabulous. Yeah.
Speaker: ah Okay, Samantha, so there are local heroes, there are local villains, and then there's just people who are a combination of both, local legends. So the man I'm going to tell you about today is one such local legend that some call a hero and others call a criminal.
Speaker: Which side you fall on will probably depend on how you view about are how you view alcohol, state and federal powers, and individuality. The man I'm going to tell you about today is the legendary bootlegger Popcorn Sutton.
Speaker: Have you heard of him? No. That's not his name. and Well, we'll talk. Okay. so my sources, and I want to read these sources now for sure. i heard this story on My Favorite Murder.
Speaker: oh Karen told this story, and it was fucking amazing. She's great anyway. we do love that show. We do love that show. we went to see them in Denver. we did. um the The Assembly NC, the title of that article is called The Lonesome Death of Marvin Popcorn Sutton by Neil Hutchison, and an article on Maxim named The Last Hillbilly Hero by David Kushner.
Speaker: Maxim. Isn't that the ah the like dude magazine? I think so. Oh, okay. And then Low Country, Style and Living. An article called The History of Moonshine by Blair Witkowski.
Speaker: All right. And then ah a book by Marvin Popcorn Sutton called Me and My Liquor. L-I-K-K-E-R. Yep. Yep.
Speaker: yep ye That sounds like a bad Joe joke. Right? Liquor cabinets. Yeah. So a little about moonshine.
Speaker: Moonshine, White Lightning, Mountain Dew, Branch Water. These are just some of the names for distilled spirits made from grain, sugar, and a dash of illegal history.
Speaker: Just the mention of any name may bring to mind illicit whiskey making in the dead of night. However, moonshine production and selling are very different than they once were. Throughout the country, micro distilleries have popped up thanks to a 2009 law allowing allowing the licensing of small spirit producers. The making of an unaged white whiskey has become part and parcel of a national movement centered on creating artisanal spirits.
Speaker: Yeah, all smoky. Yep. In the South, drinking moonshine has always been a rite of passage. I remember my uncle coming home with moonshine. Often. They talk about putting hair on your chest. It's not the same as it once was. No, absolutely not. I think the stuff they make today is like around 80 proof. Yeah. The stuff back then was like 180 proof. Yeah. Hair on your chest. You just wanted a shot to take the pain out of your back from working in the field or whatever you were doing, you know? Yeah.
Speaker: So it was a rite of passage. Whether it's the spirit's turbulent history or its risky notoriety, moonshine has secured a place in Southern culture. Moonshine, as we know it, hasn't been moonshine for that long. It started in England as a word used to describe any work done at night by the light of the moon. Oh, that's sweet. Isn't it?
Speaker: The term wouldn't describe illegal liquor until the late 1700s. It's interesting to note that producing moonshine in other spirits wasn't illegal until prohibition.
Speaker: Up until that time, it was perfectly legal to produce alcoholic beverages. The issue, though, was the U.S. taxes. They wanted their tax money. You could make and drink as much as you wanted, but you as soon as you tried to sell it, that's when things got a little risky. yeah Unwelcomed nearly everywhere, Scotch-Irish settlers were forced to move into remote, mostly mountainous areas where they found the privacy to continue to practice turning corn, grain, and sugar into alcohol.
Speaker: For many citizens, the making and selling of alcohol wasn't a hobby or a way to make extra cash. It was how they survived. It was how they took care of their families. And to these people paying the tax could mean their demise, right? Because it's money that's going to feed their kids. yeah Federal agents were even attacked when they came to collect the taxes. In fact, several were even tarred and feathered. ah Oh. Oh.
Speaker: In 1920, a nationwide prohibition took effect. However, that was the absolute greatest thing that could ever happen for the moonshiners. Suddenly, there was no legal alcohol available, and the demand for illegal spirits skyrocketed. and they don't have to pay taxes. Right. Because they're not supposed to be making it. They're not making it.
Speaker: Wink, wink. The price they could ask for their product doubled and even tripled. Enterprising Americans ventured into the criminal role world and produced, transported, and sold illicit liquor. liquor In the South, the number of stills quadrupled, and operations grew in size as a result of higher profits.
Speaker: Moonshiners could not keep up with the demand. This, in turn, led to cheaper and more sugar-based moonshine, which was of a lower quality and more watered down. To, quote, extend the amount of liquor, some moonshiners would mix their alcohol with gasoline, with rubbing alcohol, or with nail polish remover. That's how you go blind. oosh Anything that could extend the product. This added to the moonshiners' bad boy reputation.
Speaker: So organized crime soon cornered the market, creating elaborate moonshining networks and forcing farmers to run stills for them. Moonshiners played a dangerous game of cat and mouse with federal agents.
Speaker: And the end of prohibition in 1933 did not see the end of moonshining. The South was still a major producer of moonshine. Liquor production was now legal, but there was still that nasty business of taxes. Yeah.
Speaker: So the federal government was once again concerned about collecting taxes and moonshiners and mechanics designed high-performance automobiles to become faster and more maneuverable and modified them to conceal the illegal alcohol they were transporting. They would like take out all the seats except for the driver's seat.
Speaker: They would add more suspension to the vehicle so it wouldn't bounce so much. They would put a metal plate in front of the radiator. so that when the cops were shooting, it wouldn't hit the radiator.
Speaker: They weren't playing. Listen, the things that we get motivated by. Yep. These, quote, tanker cars, mostly nineteen forty s Fords, with experienced drivers, could navigate tight turns, treacherous terrain, though chases sadly often ended in the death of the revenuer or the moonshiner.
Speaker: So out of these powerful cars and high-speed chases grew the sport known today as stock car racing. Many of these same young drivers became early legendary drivers that built NASCAR. That's so cool. An estimated 90% of moonshine was distilled in the South. In fact, George Washington had a whiskey still built near his home on Mount Vernon with the Scottish distillery to make it for him. We know it. We pass it on the way to work.
Speaker: So today I'm going to tell you about one of those moonshiners. Okay. Popcorn Sutton's story is a story about rebellion. It's a story of a culture shaped by difficult times, independence, and resistance. It's a story about freedom from government and freedom to live by our own rules.
Speaker: But in the eyes of the law, Popcorn Sutton was a criminal, and Popcorn was not going to let the government write the final chapter of his life. Hell yeah. So he was born in 1946 as Marvin Sutton in Maggie Valley, North Carolina.
Speaker: Although that's not where he spent most of his days. Most of his life, including his youth, was spent in Cott County, Tennessee. Additionally, for the majority of his life, fairly few outside of Cott County, Tennessee knew who he was. But his home was full of love and music.
Speaker: His mom played the fiddle and his dad played the spoons. I can hear it. Oh my god, me too. This Tennessee man was descended from Scott's Irish-American family that had privated prided themselves on doing their own thing, including making their own moonshine.
Speaker: Popcorn Sutton simply grew up doing what he and his family had always done for like hundreds of years. Unfortunately, just because your family thinks you're right, or you're in the right, doesn't mean the law does.
Speaker: So Popcorn's legacy began when he beat up a popcorn machine with a pool stick. What did the popcorn machine do to him? I'll tell you. scrawny teen with big ears and droopy eyes, he had just watched the machine eat his quarters without dispensing the popcorn. Son of a bitch. So he beat the fuck out of the popcorn machine repeatedly with a pool stick, and he broke the popcorn machine.
Speaker: From that moment on, the locals called him popcorn. Did he get to eat his popcorn? I don't know. hope he did. i bet he did. ah i bet he broke the glass out of it, you know? i hope so. A reminder that this was one moonshiner you did not want to cross. And he once said, ah don't bother nobody, and nobody damn sure better not mess with me.
Speaker: He's got like attitude. I love that. way to go, Popcorn. Popcorn be began, you're going to love this story. Popcorn began making whiskey in his youth near what he called the bend of the river.
Speaker: a leafy spot, decades later, his empty grave would sit in. It was Popcorn's dad, Vader, who taught him how to make and to run the moonshine as deftly as the Suttons before him and the Suttons before him.
Speaker: Just for clarification, his name is Vader. His name is Vader. name is Father. And he played the spoons. And he played the spoons. Mm-hmm. The family descended from a wave of immigrants who bought the whiskey brought the whiskey recipes to the area when they arrived in the 1700s.
Speaker: Whiskey production became ingrained in early Appalachian culture, thanks in part to the region's perfect climate for growing sweet corn. When the federal government tried to tax the stuff in the 1700s, the mountainside distillers violently fought back in what would become known as the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794.
Speaker: That the spirits soared during probation when demand for the moonshine exploded and bootlegging families like NASCAR racer Junior Johnson became revered. No bootlegger, however, would become as enigmatic as popcorn. Though he looked like Snuffy Smith.
Speaker: Do you know who Snuffy Smith is? a cartoon character? you should look that up so you have a little image. Snuffy. He had the mind of a mountain Edison yeah and...
Speaker: evolved his family still into an ingenious underground moonshine machine. Whimsical contraptions of barrels and metal tubing, popcorn stills, could be set up and dismantled quickly at the riverside just in case the cops came up.
Speaker: To distinguish himself from the competition, he took pride in the quality of his moonshine. He used the freshest white corn for his mash and the coldest, cleanest stream water.
Speaker: While unscrupulous moonshiners distilled their booze through antifreeze-caked radiator pipes capable of killing a drinker, popcorn used only new copper tubing.
Speaker: Wow. Wow.
Speaker: locals still treasure to this day mason jars of it they still have some of it wow while his standard moonshine tasted like sweet buttery corn and infusions of pears peaches figs and black cherries cemented his greatness and distilling moonshine is very dangerous. yeah It can blow up, it can poison you, it can make you go blind temporarily.
Speaker: And on top of that, it is illegal. So as industrious about marketing his booze as he was and making it, Popcorn spent decades traveling in the South, stealthily pawning jars from the back of his vintage rides. He was always dressed in old overalls and a long sleeved flannel shirt, a floppy hat and a long beard.
Speaker: And he looks dated. Like when you look at him, you kind of think you're looking at somebody from the 40s, right? But he was born in 46. So all of this happened in the 70s and 80s.
Speaker: I mean, this picture though, like the fact that he looked like this dude. said That paints a picture. It paints a picture, doesn't it? To elude the cops, he switched up the cars that he used. Sometimes it was the 46 Willis Jeep on one trip, and the other trip would be a 53 Ford convertible.
Speaker: In Maggie Valley, he opened an antique shop as a front. Nice. Soon, a destination for eagers eager buyers from across the region. If the strangers seemed trustworthy, popcorn would take their cash. At about $40 per gallon at its peak, and tell them to pick up their moonshine from one of his secret drop boxes hidden in the woods.
Speaker: A baby casket or an old toilet. That was the two things that he would hide the whiskey in. A baby casket or an old toilet. That's a thing.
Speaker: Yikes. Popcorn's daughter, set Sky Sutton, said he was running from the law one time when he crashed. She said it crushed his car and it crushed his face. o Popcorn laughed that it took him an entire week to pass those front teeth.
Speaker: Oh my God. You're welcome for that. Just... One Christmas at the Cott County Police Department, Deputy Armando Fontes got a gift from a mysterious man with a long white beard. Because that's what they do. They become friends with the cops. yeah But this wasn't Santa Claus. It was the town's most notorious outlaw, Popcorn Sutton.
Speaker: And he was passing out his annual Christmas present, a shiny silver dollar for each cop on the force. Oh, you fancy. Living in this area, he made friends with all the sheriffs and the local leaders, said Fontes.
Speaker: Fontes also, when he was interviewed from this article, had just like returned from raiding a local pot farm, and he was being interviewed with a two-foot-long marijuana stalk in his hand, like a billy club.
Speaker: And he said, lawlessness around here still persists with poverty, crystal meth, and alcoholism rampant. But even for the seasoned veteran of the force, popcorn stood out. Quote, he was just a skinny little farmer looking guy who would come around and talk and cut up.
Speaker: He's cutting up. is Right. As Deputy Fontes learned, Popcorn had a long history of cozying up to the police and avoiding prosecution for making untaxed whiskey. One of Popcorn's closest and oldest friends was the county's most legendary sheriff, Tooney Moore, who shared his conviction that moonshine was an important part of the local heritage.
Speaker: Quote, my deputies wouldn't bother him, said Moore, a clean-cut retiree. I don't care if he came in drunk or anything like that. But Moore kept their friendship kind of on the down low as to not anger the more conservative people of the town.
Speaker: He said people in the community didn't know how close we was, and I wouldn't tell them. Smart. Right. While the cops may have not pursued his bootlegging aggressively, Popcorn got himself into some hot water nonetheless.
Speaker: From back rooms to bar rooms, locals tell sordid tales of Popcorn's violent temper. Regina Sutton, his eldest daughter, recalls a time in her youth when her mom opened up the cabin door cabin door to find a man with a butcher knife sticking out of his neck. Oh,
Speaker: She said, quote, I remember the blood gushing everywhere. But he was okay, right? No. She suspected that then that it was her dad that possibly did this. No.
Speaker: a calm guy. right And then there was the alleged attack on Willie Ferguson, a local musician who reportedly made the mistake of crossing popcorn. As the story goes, Ferguson's body was found on the side of the road, left for dad after having his throat slit. Okay.
Speaker: Word soon spread that Popcorn and another man cut him after a fight and then took his fiddle. Not the fiddle. took the fiddle. Not the fiddle.
Speaker: In the 1970s and 80s, Popcorn Sutton started getting in trouble with the law law enforcement. His first arrest and conviction in connection with his illegal alcohol brewing was in 1974 on charges of selling untaxed liquor.
Speaker: Popcorn was again taken back in 1981 and 1985 on charges of possessing controlled substances and assault, the latter of which caused him to do some time in Asheville's Craggy Correctional Center.
Speaker: By the 1990s, Popcorn had written the book Me and My Liquor. Me and my liquor. It's like really hard to find now, and the copies that you can find are kind of expensive. But our co-worker, Jason, kindly let me borrow his copy, and it is signed by Popcorn Sutton.
Speaker: That surprises me not at all. Not at all, Jason. Not at all. This book has been described as, quote, a rambling, obscene, and often hilarious account of Popcorn's life in the trade.
Speaker: It's hard to read. And it's like spiral-bound notebook style. Yeah. kind of hard to read. So Popcorn is well known and respected by this time, so well known and profitable that he agreed to build a moonshine still for the opening of the Moonshine Museum of Appalachia. It's outside of Knoxville.
Speaker: For this event, thousands of people will be there. And Popcorn agrees that he'll be there operating his still in person. Okay. To keep things legal, though, popcorn's explicitly told to run water through that still. Ah, definitely. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: He does, right? oh Well, on the night of the event, popcorn being popcorn, he never liked to go buy popcorn, by the way, that was his shtick, you know what i mean? His whole shtick. Yeah, popcorn being popcorn said, fuck it.
Speaker: So popcorn made actual moonshine at the event in the museum. He hands it out to everybody in the crowd in these little bitty cups. He even gives a cup of moonshine to the then governor.
Speaker: He got everybody a little drunk, including the children that were there, oh according to one article. He's told to get rid of the moonshine, so he's offended and he left.
Speaker: But he gave it to everybody. Good for him. I bet most people liked it. They probably did. Until now, Popcorn was locally known, but then there was a filmmaker by the name of Neil Hutchison who hears about Popcorn and makes a documentary about him called, quote, This is the last damn run of liquor I'm ever going to make. It follows Popcorn as he makes moonshine for the, quote, last time.
Speaker: And this documentary becomes a cult classic. He has like this crazy personality. He's your typical funny southern redneck hillbilly. You know what i mean? Yeah. like You don't dislike him, but he's very... Brash? Crude. mean It could be offensive to a lot of people. What?
Speaker: And in this documentary, he says... let me get the microphone for this. Oh, wait. Let me... um He said...
Speaker: I've made all kinds of liquor in my time. I've made the fighting kind. I've made the loving kind. made the crying kind. I even made someone time sold it to this couple that was happily married. Next damn week, there's divorced.
Speaker: This documentary wins a regional Emmy award. So Deputy Fontes hadn't anticipated adding to Popcorn's criminal record until April 24th, 2007.
Speaker: two thousand and seven When he spotted smoke billowing up from the woods. Deputy Fontes arrived to find Popcorn Sutton fanning the flames of a still which had exploded from a gas leak. Popcorn ran up to him and he was saying, don't tell nobody what you're seeing here, don't tell nobody. That's what he said.
Speaker: Popcorn did get probation for this, But he didn't give a fuck. He defiantly refused to give up his trade. On February 7th, 2008, a biker arrived at Popcorn's house saying he wanted to buy more than 50 gallons of moonshine. Holy fuck.
Speaker: Popcorn told him that he sold that much all the time, and after bragging about his whiskey and his guns, he sent the man away with 80 gallons of moonshine. man. the next few weeks, Popcorn sold more than 100 additional gallons of moonshine, each to two different men, and showed another guy the barn with the three working stills and 500 gallons of moonshine sat ready to roll.
Speaker: But as Popcorn discovered, the buyers were federal agents from the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. No. And America's most notorious moonshiner was under arrest.
Speaker: Popcorn had sold them over 200 gallons of moonshine. This time, the local cops would be of no help. They could not help at all this time. It's beyond them. Yeah, I mean, he just put his foot in it. He did. He said, let me show you where I'm making this illegal moonshine. Tooney, that sheriff like, can't help you there, bud.
Speaker: Ain't no way. Damn it, popcorn. The man behind this raid was one of the country's most infamous ATF agents, James Cavanaugh, a fellow Tennessean who had became known for leading Waco and the Unabomber raids.
Speaker: I just, that that's crazy to me that they used him to do this, to catch popcorn. i don't know. it's like I know. Nothing was working up to that point. Waco Unabomber, going to get the same man for popcorn?
Speaker: I don't know. That's crazy. seems Seems aggressive. Right. And he vowed to take popcorn down. Kavanaugh said, quote, moonshine is romanticized in folklore and in the movies. But the truth is moonshine is a dangerous health issue and breeds other crime.
Speaker: bla by dad but I'm just kidding. While Popcorn was under house arrest, Motocross star Jamie Grosser showed up unannounced at the cabin one day. Do you know him? I do. Okay. So Grosser was like any other fanboy who had come to meet the living legend and buy some hooch.
Speaker: But Popcorn had fallen on hard times and had ended up drinking and talking with Grosser for two days. Hmm. Now 62 and fighting kidney failure and a mental health crisis with a new diagnosis of cancer, Popcorn faced 18 years, likely his last year's too behind bars.
Speaker: His money was running out. Many of his friends, he lamented, had stopped coming around. Quote, I don't want moonshine to die with me, he told Grocer as they stood near the casket that Popcorn kept in his house for his final day.
Speaker: Inspired by the story, Grocer suggested that they partner on a distillery and sell popcorns Moonshine legally. The two made a deal to open Popcorn Sutton Distilling and sell his whiskey on the open market, taxes and all.
Speaker: To Grocer, it seemed less like a sellout than the last swift move of a sharp entrepreneur. Quote, he was methodical about his brand and making living, Grocer recalls.
Speaker: He was a whole lot smarter than people give him credit for. And you can tell that when you watch the documentary. He looks like something out of Mayberry, right?
Speaker: But also he's smart. He's very fucking smart. I mean, he's made it this far. Grocer returned on March 16, 2009 to finalize the deal with Popcorn, who was scheduled to go to prison just days later.
Speaker: Popcorn sold Grocer the recipe to his moonshine. Grocer also noticed that day that Popcorn was not his usual sort of outrageous, flamboyant self that he usually is.
Speaker: Later on that day, March 16, 2009, 62-year-old Marvin Popcorn Sutton was found dead at his home in Parrotsville, Tennessee of an apparent suicide.
Speaker: Though Popcorn left no suicide note, his dramatic exit has transformed him into a martyr for his cause and has solidified his legacy as the little guy had rather fucking die than let the feds beat him.
Speaker: After his daughter, Regina, fulfilled his lifelong wish by burying him next to his parents at the bend of the river, his wife, Pam Sutton, exhumed his remains and had him buried back in her own front yard at an elaborate ceremony attended by many people, including Hank Williams Jr. Sounds about right. That's some shit, isn't it? Sounds about right.
Speaker: Regina and her supporters, including Popcorn's former girlfriend, Ernestine Upchurch, are fighting, Ernestine, that's a good name. That's a name. Are fighting to get his remains back to his empty grave at the bend of the river and reclaim his brand name.
Speaker: Regina has plans to release her own moonshine based on her dad's secret recipe with a local micro distillery near her home in Anchorage, Alaska, where she now works as a trauma surgeon, a job that was inspired by the day that she saw the guy at her dad's house with a knife in his neck. There you go.
Speaker: In an ironic twist, Regina can now make her dad's booze in Tennessee legally if she wants. The state passed a law shortly after his death authorizing moonshine production.
Speaker: The new law wasn't enacted to honor popcorn's legend, though. It was done so the state could finally get the tax money. Popcorn's recipe is now sold in stores across the country with the name on the bottle simply being Popcorn Sutton.
Speaker: A lot of people argue that it isn't legal to sell moonshine because to make real moonshine, it has to be illegally made. You can't really argue with that. No.
Speaker: Popcorn... And this had to be saved for the last. Popcorn may no longer be around to weigh in, but his final words appear in his new resting place near his cabin in the woods. It's a phrase that he cut into the headstone himself.
Speaker: Interesting. The four-word epitaph sums up how he felt about his life, his death, and his legacy. His headstone simply reads, Popcorn Said, Fuck you And that is the story of the legendary bootlegger, Marvin Popcorn Sutton.
Speaker: That is legendary. Fucking legendary, right?
Speaker: Popcorn said, fuck you. And you know what? He did until the day he died. Cheers to popcorn. That one deserves a cheers to popcorn. um That being said, I will not be drinking his moonshine.
Speaker: His moonshine, though, is like the what you can buy today. The age now, yeah. Yeah, his moonshine seems pretty good, honestly. like So you looked at the picture of popcorn, right?
Speaker: This is popcorn. Oh my gosh. And snuffy. Yes. Yes. Why do his eyebrows look like that?
Speaker: I don't know. But he's in his 50s at this time. um And then this is his moonshine. It's classy looking, right? That is very classy.
Speaker: Liquor. Liquor. L-I-K-K-E-R. Liquor. l i k k e r liquor um
Speaker: That man lived a life based on that picture. He did. And he did it the way he wanted to. And like I said in that documentary, it's so well done. And he's like so many people I've met, right?
Speaker: On the surface, they don't look...
Speaker: he's he's a lot smarter than people give him credit for. it And he leaned into that persona that people really liked. Even though he didn't like being called popcorn, ah he knew what he was doing with that public image. Oh, yeah. He he leaned into it. Well, and that's part of the the the wits, the smart, the intelligence that he... Because that was that was the brand. That's what they wanted to see. That's what they wanted to pigeonhole him into that based on where he came from, where he lived, what he did. um And that does, it shows a level of intelligence kind of beyond. And again, it's it's easy...
Speaker: Unfortunately, it's easy to stereotype someone, again, with that background appearing the way he does. um And, you know, that's that's their win and our loss. Our loss being us, those who judge someone simply based on But there's so many stories too. Like just the fact that dad told me about three of them last night. Dude, that was like ah so interesting. What an interesting, I'm becoming fascinated with Southern crime and the folklore and stuff like that and legends like this. I'm gonna probably do a lot more well of these kinds of stories. is your roots. It's my people.
Speaker: Cherokee County. Cherokee County. Cherokee County. Still a dry county today. Wild. Yeah. I have to remember where i lived that was a dry county. I also remember in the eighty s because I'm old, but I remember in the eighty s if you bought alcohol, liquor, booze, whatever, in the neighboring county or in Rome, Georgia, and you came back to your home with it, I remember you had to have it in the trunk. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I think. I think that was a thing. Yeah, that sounds sounds... Because, you know, if they caught you, they would take the booze themselves. Yep, it sounds about right.
Speaker: Man. What a character, though, huh? Popcorn Sutton. Popcorn said, fuck you You know, I feel like um if I were to ever have a headstone, which I don't intend to, um that would be a pretty accurate...
Speaker: That would be good. Actually, it would be Sam says, fuck off. Sam says, fuck off. Fuck right off. Oh, that was good. That was good. Okay. Maybe we all have a little bit of the spirit of popcorn with us, right?
Speaker: Yeah. little bit. little bit. little little bit. little bit far. i hope that I think that was a good show. I think that was a great show. ah Is that all? I think that is all for now. Perfect.
Speaker: Yeah. Okay. On to the next one. On to the next. They never end. They don't. And remember, we are here for a good time. Not a long time. Goodbye.
