Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Juventus SACK Thiago Motta? Possible Replacements: Conte, De Zerbi, Gasperini & Mancini (Clip From Ep. 498)
2 Playsin 1 day
After a humiliating Coppa Italia quarterfinal exit at the hands of Empoli, there is a real risk that Juventus sack Thiago Motta already this season.
Nima Tavallaey and Carlo Garganese detail and list all the things that have gone wrong so far before analyzing and discussing possible replacements ranging from Antonio Conte, Gian Piero Gasperini, Roberto Mancini to Roberto De Zerbi.
This is an extended clip from this week's free Monday episode of The Italian Football Podcast which is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube podcasts.
To listen to this & all other full episodes of The Italian Football Podcast (and support the show), go to Patreon.com/TIFP OR now also available on Spotify OR YouTube Memberships and sign up. Your support makes The Italian Football Podcast possible.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast.
Mota's Future at Risk
00:00:05
Speaker
If we could just move on to Juventus now, who are playing on Monday evening, so we're recording this before before the before the match.
00:00:14
Speaker
um Thiago Mota's future is very much at risk now after the Coppa Italia and defeat to Empoli in midweek, last midweek. I mean, it's humiliating exit.
00:00:26
Speaker
and They're playing against an Empoli team who... played virtually their entire reserves and not even their reserves in some cases. They played some of the kids. And Juventus has only managed a 1-1 draw and then they lose on on penalties.
00:00:40
Speaker
And the the definitely the the mood has definitely changed with regards to Thiago Motta
Potential Replacements for Mota
00:00:47
Speaker
now. um He was obviously already under a lot of pressure because of you know how bad this season has been, but more so since that the exit to PSV in the in the Champions League.
00:00:58
Speaker
But after this defeat to Empoli, an Empoli team you know that are in horrific form, bought near the bottom of Serie A, with their backups playing, that has changed the mood. And now the Italian media are pretty much unanimous in reporting that Mota really does risk the sack at the end of the season, even if Juventus finish in the top four.
00:01:23
Speaker
there is the chance that he might not be he might not be retained but for for next season. And we we're seeing... Gazzetta de la Sport been very hot on this.
00:01:34
Speaker
um And they have good contacts at Juventus now. Juventus' shortlist of potential replacements are Gianpiero Gasparini,
00:01:46
Speaker
Antonio Conte, Roberto De Zerbi, Roberto Mancini and an outsider is Igor Tudor. And Igor Tudor would only be somebody that they would bring in if things really go to shit in the next few games and they want to bring in a caretaker until the end of the season. They bring on Tudor, who obviously Juventus through and through from his playing career and he's been an assistant at Juventus as well.
00:02:12
Speaker
he'd only be considered the for the for as a caretaker, not for the long
Is Mancini the Ideal Choice?
00:02:16
Speaker
term. Whereas the other managers that I mentioned there would um would be those that are being considered for foot for next the next season. Gasparini, like you said, has said that he might might leave, even leave at the end of the season yeah at Atalanta. Conte, what's this space as always with with Antonio Conte? You never but know. Well, you don't know. If they don't win the Scudetto, he's going to blame.
00:02:37
Speaker
Well, he could leave even if they win the Scudetto. He could leave if they win the Scudetto. Yeah, I can't take this team further. If they don't win the Scudetto, we'll know. He can all say the same thing as well. he's going them for Yeah, he's blame them for January. Conte could leave. If you win, let's remember this is a man who left Inter and Juve after winning. Juve, three Scudetti, and Inter won Scudetto in first in 11 years. So Conte could leave regardless. It depends on how the wig is sitting.
00:03:02
Speaker
Yeah, and De Zerbi is somebody that fits in with, I guess, the kind of ah plan that they had with Mota in terms of younger players developing sustainable and also...
00:03:15
Speaker
hopefully entertaining, kind of more proactive football. So he fits in there. Mancini is obviously looking for a return to Serie A.
Juventus' Managerial Strategy
00:03:22
Speaker
Mancini is the obvious choice though. I mean, to me, it's it's everything else is, unless Mancini doesn't want to and they can't find an agreement.
00:03:30
Speaker
Mancini would definitely want it. I don't know whether Juventus would consider him the the top, top choice. I think he's more of a... Well, the thing with Mancini, you talk about youth. Roberto Mancini has a fantastic track record of developing young players.
00:03:45
Speaker
at club and international level. um You talk about a player, you talk about a coach who's used to being at the top, top level, who's used to winning, who knows how to handle big players, who big personalities, who knows what it takes, both as a player and as a coach, to be at the top level.
00:04:06
Speaker
He ticks every single box. um The only question I have is, You know, can he... We've seen Mancini 1.0 be very successful. We've seen Mancini 2.0 at City in Italy be very successful.
00:04:21
Speaker
Does he have it in him to rejuvenate himself for a 3.0? Because that's that's what's going to take for him to to succeed at Juve. or Or, again, at club level. But for me, if you look at man management, youth development...
00:04:38
Speaker
he being able to handle big characters, being able to build a dressing room, being able to deliver under pressure. Out of those lists, there is only one man, and that's Roberto Mancini. That but takes every single role. Well, I think, listen, I think there's a few things that that' they're looking at here.
00:04:52
Speaker
that Do they continue with the project that they they've started, the Junsley project, let's call it that, um of, you know, buying younger players, um making it sustainable, developing players, and playing a certain style of football?
00:05:09
Speaker
If that's the case, then yes, I think Mancini could fit into that, but they but there's also Gasparini fits into that and De Zerbi fits into that. So those are probably the... The difference that Gasparini cannot get along with anyone and throws hissy fits, and we saw we've seen it throughout his career. Well, the...
00:05:27
Speaker
Well, but fit yes, there's that there's ah that issue. We discussed that last week, didn't we, about kind of his drawbacks of Gasparini. But there's also something that they consider in Juventus, which is, do we want to go for someone with with that understands the Juventus environment?
00:05:43
Speaker
um And in that case, you've got Gasparini, who was um a youth coach at Juventus for a long time, for around a decade, I think. ah in the 90s and in the early 2000s. So he knows the environment.
00:05:58
Speaker
and And then, of course, there's Antonio Conte, who's Juventus through and through as a player and and then ah and and then as a coach. But if you hire Antonio Conte, um and that would obviously be reliant on him, like Gasparini leaving his current club, um you know, you're you're not going to get... The project is changes, doesn't it?
00:06:16
Speaker
You can't build a... You're going to have to change the project. Do they want to do that? you know Do they want a guarantee? if they want more of a guarantee, then you go Antonio Conte. um So there's lots of there's lots of things to to to to consider um there.
00:06:32
Speaker
um But as it stands right now, we have to say that Mota... has really two and a half months to to save his job.
00:06:42
Speaker
Number one, he needs to get Juventus in the top four to qualify for the Champions League. That's non
Internal Issues at Juventus
00:06:47
Speaker
that's non-negotiable. If he doesn't get in the top four, he's 100% sacked. If he gets in the top four, not only does he need to get into the top four, he needs to prove a couple of things.
00:06:55
Speaker
He needs to prove that the team is making progress on on how they're playing, performance levels. Because I actually think that even though Juventus, you know, again, we're recording this before the Hella-Sverona game,
00:07:07
Speaker
even though Juventus have gone on a kind of a four-game winning run in Serie which is their best run of the season, I think that we've actually seen the guarantees of Mota from the first half of season disappear, i.e.
00:07:21
Speaker
the possession. They're not dominating possession in games. um The defence is not solid anymore. So those were the two... things that we could guarantee from, from, from, uh, the identity. Let's say that's the only thing, but the only identity that we had from us. We've lost that now as well. And that's obviously shown by the fact they've lost in two cups during that, during that winning run.
00:07:42
Speaker
So we need to see some kind of identity. We need to see some kind of performance, um, uh, levels being improved. Um, that's number one. And then number two, and this is probably most concerning is, um,
00:07:56
Speaker
There's been lots of reports of problems with with with with a few players at Juventus. They don't like... He's not getting on with a few players. and They haven't named who these players are, um but there have been suggestions. Dusan Vlaovic, Tunkupminers, Kambiasso. That's been one that's been lingering for a while now.
00:08:16
Speaker
um So we don't know for sure who they are and how bad it is, but... as we've always said, and and it's the the first rule in football with a manager is if you, as soon as you lose your dressing room or you lose, it's finishing to bla that's it.
00:08:33
Speaker
That's it. So, but I don't think you love it stays past this season. And I'm not entirely certain that even can be as a stays past the season. um We'll have to wait financial reasons for completely separate reasons. Yeah, but the point is that if he hasn't got the changing room, Juventus are going to be monitoring that basically to see what... I'm looking at Juve like this. I think that if they, if they after the Atalanta game, are within six points of the top spot, they're not going sack him.
00:09:04
Speaker
After the Atalanta game? After after the Atalanta game. Well, they're not going sack him now. not going to sack him now. No, no, no. That's what I was going to say. If they are within six points of the Scudetto, of the Serie A, of the top spot, after the Atalanta game, they're not going sack him now.
00:09:21
Speaker
But if they are if they lose to Atalanta and draw against Hellas, i think he will I think they sack him already now. i I just, there's them, they're just going to cut their losses, I think.
00:09:35
Speaker
I think, I think, I think 1.6 out of when you look, Juve is a very special club in the sense that it's the only thing that matters is to win everything. And I mean that in the literal sense, not the figurative sense.
00:09:50
Speaker
Everything else is secondary. If they can find themselves after this shit season in somehow in a Scudetto race and they make a serious push, I think there's actually a chance that even at the end of the season he continues on.
00:10:04
Speaker
But if at Juve you can't capitalize on the weakness of the opponents, that's in Juventus' self-image. If you can't do that, then you have no business being at Juve.
00:10:17
Speaker
Yeah, i think listen I think there's a bigger problem um at Juventus right now that goes above Mota. um And um I've been speaking to ah to a few people um over the the last few days since then since the the the exit to Empoli.
00:10:32
Speaker
And I've been told that there are real problems higher up the club. Some of them I think we know. were quite apparent the fact that a lot of different departments, you know, we've been speaking about a lot of different departments that are underperforming, and not just on the pitch, not just the manager, but you've got the the medical department that's completely failed this season. Just look at the list of injuries, the number of ACLs,
00:10:59
Speaker
And some
Structural Problems and Fan Dissatisfaction
00:11:00
Speaker
of this predates this season, obviously, what a lot of it does. um The number of injuries, even now as we speak, look at the look at the number of defenders that Juventus have out currently right now. It's absolutely insane.
00:11:10
Speaker
and The commercial department has ah is failing. I mean, look, they didn't even get a sponsor and this season, and and which is which is just embarrassing. um The recruitment department has failed this season. just Just look at the money that was spent loss last summer.
00:11:28
Speaker
you know the the three biggest signings, €140 million euros worth of players in Cook Miners, Douglas Luiz and Nico Gonzalez that have have all been flops the this season.
00:11:40
Speaker
um and And then you go higher up to to obviously Elkan and I mean, what the hell does he even do? um So yeah that we've spoken about already, but I've been you know i've been told that there is just...
00:11:55
Speaker
no synergy at all between the the different departments, that the people that are heading up these different departments within the club um with the titles, they're not even they're not even reporting to anyone.
00:12:07
Speaker
How during the time of like Andrea Regnelli, for but all the kind of mistakes that he made at the end of his time um at Juventus, which he then paid for, that at least you had somebody who was...
00:12:21
Speaker
very passionate, the that loved Juventus, that wanted them to win, that every decision he made, good or bad, right or wrong, was in the interest of trying to make Juventus win.
00:12:33
Speaker
um And everybody reported to Agnelli. Everybody knew that they had to do a job and do it well because otherwise Agnelli would, you know, or Agnelli's people would would hold them responsible.
00:12:45
Speaker
How at the moment at Juventus, there's nothing. The people, everybody's just doing, every department is just doing what they want with no synergy and nothing is tied together, um which is the recipe for disaster in any corporate organisation. Let me tell you that as somebody that you know that's worked, and most people listen to this, would have worked in a corporation, that if the different your different departments that you have within your organisation are not working together, and it's just a mess.
00:13:13
Speaker
It's a complete mess. An example, just to give you a very minor example this week, you've got Cristiano Ronaldo who's suing Juventus basically for unpaid money. um And the the the social media team are ah posting loads of ah posting lots of... ah um ah doing social posts, picking up Ronaldo and how amazing he was at Juventus and, oh, the king and and the goat and all this kind of stuff. And, you know, that's just a minor example. It might not mean much, but, you know, it just shows how there's and there's no... That would never happen if Agnelli was in charge, but it that way.
00:13:45
Speaker
But this is just the chaos that there is at Juventus. And I think that, you know, that obviously... If you've got an organisation that's not being run well, it makes it very, very difficult to win on the pitch.
00:13:58
Speaker
um And it it kind of poisons the whole environment. um And it's the same thing that we've seen at Milan, um which has been run obviously very, very badly.
00:14:10
Speaker
ah Manchester United for the last decade or more with the Glazers, that everything is such a mess structurally within these three clubs that it becomes it becomes very, very difficult.
00:14:20
Speaker
um And you know the fans also, at all three clubs, the fans are fed up. Juventus Ultra has announced before the Verona game that they're going to boo the players, the coach, the management the management and the leadership before and during the the match against Helos Verona.
00:14:36
Speaker
um So it's just that these environments are very poisonous, very toxic. It's the same at Milan. And when that's the environment, and that's just how the club is being run up above, it becomes very, very difficult on the on the pitch.
00:14:49
Speaker
And that's something I know that you spoke about a lot during during the Allegri time. And maybe I underplayed that a little bit, um you know. um But I think it's is it's very apparent even now.
Mota's Future and Possible Replacement
00:15:00
Speaker
And there was supposed to be a change. It was supposed to be this would be the new project. Allegri goes, everything changes up above. And from what I'm hearing, the people I'm speaking to, um it's still a mess.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yes, it is still a mess. um And I think that i maybe the step up for... Fortiago Motta was a little bit too soon.
00:15:27
Speaker
I still think that he will he will have a good career. I think he's a, you know, I think, I don't think, I think some people are just basically, I think the hype was exaggerated and I think the critique is exaggerated. i think he will still, he will recover from this and he will have a good career.
00:15:44
Speaker
think he'll still have a top career. um This is a setback. But I do feel that the only way that he stays at Juve beyond this season is if Juve can mount a challenge from now for the title from now until the end.
00:15:59
Speaker
Because then you show the Juventus identity. Winning Scudetti you don't deserve to win. And I don't mean by any like illicit things. I mean capitalizing on the weakness of your opponents.
00:16:13
Speaker
When they fail, Juve historically don't. and they win stuff they don't deserve to win because others are better, because they just stumble. That's what Juve want to see. That's how you that's the uentist identity that's part of Juve's identity.
00:16:27
Speaker
And if he can mount a challenge and push Napoli and Inter to the wire, then I think he can stay. If he doesn't, if he gets one in one out of six points over the next two games, I think he walks in the international break.
00:16:45
Speaker
I think Tudor comes in as a caretaker coach, and I think the recruitment for next season begins immediately after that. Because they have nothing to lose. I mean, they they look at how it looks downwards the table.
00:16:58
Speaker
They're not too worried. They look at the games they've got left. They got look at the games the others got left. they They're in a good position. think I think they keep him um unless, you know, if the if if top four becomes a ah risk and they just need an injection. There's only one international break as far as I'm aware and now's the time to do it.
00:17:16
Speaker
Well, yeah. yeah Yeah. I think it depends like what the top four situation looks like. And if there is a risk of top four, you know, not falling away from the top four, then they might, you they might,
00:17:29
Speaker
you know they might bring in a Tudor just to give them injection. Kind of like what he did last season, and at the end of season with Lazio. and But if they they look comfortable, if they're you know they open up a lead a little lead on Lazio by the international break, i i think they I think they will keep him.
00:17:44
Speaker
Yeah, and that's what I mean. and that's And that's why I think that's what I'm saying. If he doesn't like six point if he's six points within the Scudetto when the international break starts, he finishes the season. If he can mount a challenge and push them to the wire, not necessarily win win the thing,
00:17:59
Speaker
then he stays. But if he can't do any other if he can't do any of those things, if he can't do the first thing, he's out by March. if he can't do If he does the first thing but can't do the second thing, I think he's gone in the summer.