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The One About Bass Drumming
175 Plays3 months ago
Join our hosting panel as they talk about bass drum and, more specifically, the SoCal Bass Camp! Stephen is joined by Woody, the creator of the Bass Camp, and some of WGI’s most experienced bass drum educators as they discuss this first of its kind bass drum clinic, alongside bass drum and recent DCI percussion staff switch ups.
The hosts discuss a range of topics,
Be sure to follow the On A Water Break podcast on all social media platforms and subscribe to our YouTube channel for more exclusive content. Don't forget to leave a review and share this episode with your fellow drum corps, marching band, and marching arts enthusiasts!
Meet our Hosts
Jackie Brown - @spintronixguard
Stephen McCarrick - @stephenmccarick
Cindy Barry - @leandermomma
Nicole Younger - @o2bnpjs & @thecookoutcg
Trevor Bailey - @t_pain151
Trish O’Shea - @trishdish1002
Beth Beccone - @bether7189
Chris Rutt - @wildhornbrass1
Cynthia Bernard - @cynthiabern
Ashlee Amos - @famousamossss_
Theo Harrison - @harrisontheo07
Stephanie Click - @stephanieclick
Whitney Stone - @dancerwhit
Justin Surface - @J_dex07
Ashley Tran - @itsashleytran
Jack Goudreau - @goudreau_
Bill Woodward - @remoking100
Emily Nee - @tch.makes.art
Ricardo Robinson-Shinall - @ricardorrobinson
Austin Hall - @Austin_hall10
Jose Montes - @joeymontes57
Bobbey Biddle - @bobbeyboy107
Peyton Billhart - @peytonbrillhart
Music provided by leydamusic.com Follow him @josh.leyda
Avatars provided by @tch.makes.art
Featuring
Lexi Duda - Host for On A Water Break In Rhinestones - The Stories of the Twirlers @lexi_duda
Thank you also to @guardcloset
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey everyone, we are back for another exciting rehearsal. This week, we are finally talking about bass drum. I've got the team from the SoCal Bass Camp here to talk about their recent, first of its kind, independent bass drum clinic. We'll also figure out what made Woody say, Oh, I'm too much of a rebel. We tried. It was too much of a world change for them. And why the DC said, like if you, if you think you play like between wrist break and rotation, like you're really just not doing either.
00:00:31
Speaker
All this and more, so get out on the field and we will see you back on the sidelines for this week's episode of On a Water Break. um addolf the met and go welcome you on a water
00:00:54
Speaker
time for a water drain All right, welcome to another episode of season two of on a water break the podcast where we talk about And you and your friends are talking about at rehearsal on a water break I'm steve mccarrick and i'm really excited about this episode that we are about to record here in front of us Uh, I first came across the team that we're going to meet today and their project on instagram about a month or two ago and i've been real excited to support their project, uh And we're going to learn more about it all together here in this episode.
Introducing the SoCal Bass Camp Team
00:01:25
Speaker
So I've got the brains behind the SoCal Base Camp ah team here tonight to discuss their bass drum camp. And we're going to talk all about bass drum after. But before we meet them, let's ah see who we got on the sidelines this week. We've got Woody. How you doing, Woody? I recently I just recently started a a new gig, retired and then
00:01:51
Speaker
a A gig near the house came off tonight. They draw you right back. Yeah, I took the band director job there and it's going to happen. They're going they're going to be okay. they go Just giving out young people to believe in themselves when all looks like it's going to fail. It can be a tough job, you know?
00:02:12
Speaker
But yeah, believe me man. I was just telling you guys about ah my high school baselines It can be a tough job is exactly right ah But we're happy to have you on man. Thanks for coming along ah did you see here As usual Happy to have you, but the DC, my good friend to DC, thank you for joining the podcast. You know, you informed me you actually haven't been on the show, but I could have swore that you're on this show. no So you're going to give us a 32 count life story. That way ah our audience can meet you and they can know kind of what brought you here today. So you ready? All right. You'll get eaten in.
00:02:53
Speaker
All right, my name is Dodisi. I'm 25. I did three years of DCA with Alliance 2014 to 2016. I did two years with Phantom Regiment from 17 to 18, three years with Bluecoats, 19 to 2021, seven years with Atlantic West, 15 to 21, and raised out with RhythmX in 2022. Nice. And I still play bass drum at the Command Zone, United States Marine Drum and Bugle Corps.
00:03:21
Speaker
Sweet done one bar early too just ahead of time I think you uh, you neglected to mention that you also teach the bass drums at george mason. you Yes. I did. Yep. Yep I missed and an important other You're continuing as a bass drummer you're not carrying the lead but yo This is why I always get silver medals Just a little ahead but Awesome, dude. I'm very happy that you're on the show. the second yeah but have been here too yeah As soon as I was talking to our producer, Jeremy, about doing an episode all about bass drums, I was like, I need to get to DC and I'm glad that you were down. But, uh, sweet. Let's, uh, let's meet the ah brains of the operation here. So, uh, Matt, why don't you get us started, um, and tell us at least in 32 counts, a little bit about yourself. We're going to have plenty more time later to talk about the base camp, but you ready to get us up to speed?
00:04:19
Speaker
let's do it all right Hey, I'm Matt Walters. I go by Walt in the drum community. I'm from Southern California, born and raised. I did Mystical Drum and Bugle Corps. I was at Dig 3 back in the day. I did Black Knight's winner drum line in 06 and 07. Moved to Riverside, did the RCC fall marching band 07 and 08. I did RCC winner 08, 09, 10, and 11.
00:04:49
Speaker
And I did Blue Devils in oh, eight, nine and 10 on the downbeat. Let's go.
00:05:00
Speaker
Sweet. That's that's impressive, man. I ah some of those old RCC shows and RCC lines like set the trend of what the activity was. Yeah, those are good years. Really, really cool years. um We will come back to hear more about it in a little bit and to hear more about what you've gotten up to more recently. But before we do that, Caleb, let's also ah get to meet you. You ready to give us a 32 count life story? Bring it on, dude. Let's go. Let's go. Aiten in.
00:05:29
Speaker
I'm starting on the downbeat right here, the downbeat of the 32 crowns. I started at Mystical, I did 0607, I did Black Knights in 2007, the last year they existed just like Mount Walters did. We split apart there, I went to Bluecoats, I did Bluecoats 9 and 10, where we got our first medal. I went to RCC, did RCC from 08 to 11, another three silvers there. I got to went to Mandarins, I taught Mandarins in 13, I taught OCI for three years, ah bronze and silver. I got went to Academy in 15,
00:05:58
Speaker
dark sky from 15 to 19 blue stars from 16 to 19 and 24 and rcc 20 to 24 sounding like buster rhymes fitting that all under 32 counts you almost had dude almost had it i was so close dude i was so i wasn't keeping track i was just trying to go through and get the detail reset reset i was trying not to rush all right i know i can rush but i Oh, man, that's that's super impressive. Why don't you ah go back through the groups you were teaching a little bit? Because there's a lot of heaters in there. Oh, for sure. I did. And I actually have a list. I'm cheating. So I'm not this is not from memory. No, I got to think it's cheating that much. If you've just done so much band that you need a list to go back. No, it's a lot. It's more impressive. I appreciate you for that. No, so I did a mandarins 13. I taught mandarins 13. I taught Academy 15. I taught blue stars 16 through 19. And then last year 24. And then for winter I taught OCI 12 through 14, dark sky 15 through 19 and then RCC 20 to 24. So wow. I had this since 07.
Woody's Reflection on Drum Corps Changes
00:07:15
Speaker
I was nine.
00:07:19
Speaker
That's awesome. I auditioned for Blue Stars Baseline in 2016. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I was at the Atlanta camp. You might have been there. I wasn't at the Atlanta camp. Damn. Sorry, man. That's all good. I bet you were great. I bet you were killing. Yeah.
00:07:38
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think he figured it out. He wound up where he needed to be. Yeah. Well, it's pretty close. Pretty close. Oh, Steve, I think I'm going to have to take a Jared talk pill, man. I'm listening to you guys. Throw these dates around. I'm like, yeah, sometime we should have you do a 32 count life story again, just to refresh us on like, when are you marching, Woody? Let's say, yeah.
00:08:04
Speaker
When was I marching? When was like your early days of marching? My first year of marching was 1977. I finished in 83.
00:08:18
Speaker
ah I toured the Bridgeman. I watched Bushwackers after that, after the Bridgeman thing folded. I it's kind of guess so eight, nine years at Bush.
00:08:33
Speaker
And then, uh, they should let you run Bush. Huh? I said, they should let you run Bush. Oh, I'm too much of a rebel. We tried. It was too much of a world change for them. You know, thing then I wrote big into, they're like old people. They don't like a lot of cheese. Yeah. It's tough in DCA. Maybe now that they moved it to Lucas oil stadium, they're ready for Woody to move in.
00:09:03
Speaker
so It was good, though. ah you know it No one hated me. It just wasn't it wasn't a good fit. know They brought me in as a program coordinator. And I'm coming in. I'm all fired up from you know hanging out with you young guys. And I'm like, OK, let's set up for a third run through, a third run through.
00:09:27
Speaker
ah fun It was too much. Yeah. Our third run through. um I've got two kids and three jobs. like That's the DCA experience. but you know this is This is in the days when they they didn't have as many young people in it as they do now. So it was a different experience, much different experience. Certainly. but I enjoyed my time. Oh, I'm like, how can I forget? I watched Black Watch from a Google Core. Yeah.
00:09:55
Speaker
Oh, nice. I'm an East Coast kind of guy. Yeah, I can't. Why didn't I do? Or how long ago was that? Excuse me? How long ago was the ah last time that Blackwatch even had a drum corps? It's been a long time. eighty me too Oh, god, it's been a long time. Isn't BlackRock like a financial institution? No, BlackWatch.
00:10:19
Speaker
thoughts yeah watch watch but
00:10:32
Speaker
Black Rock will acquire. that That's why I work here at the on the water break because I'm the historian. but Very important. All right, well, speaking in the in the line of history, why don't we get into this news real quick before we get on to our our ah conversations about SoCal Base Camp.
00:11:10
Speaker
All right, sweet.
DCI Staff Changes
00:11:11
Speaker
So not a lot of news. I'm really not trying to get it outside of percussion this week, but I really want to talk about there's a couple of changes up in DCI staff that ah just came out pretty recently and they're finally confirmed. Big things changing. One thing that I see you Cali guys might have some thoughts on, John Mapes coming over to Mandarin's.
00:11:31
Speaker
What do you guys think? I'm excited to see it. I think it's pretty, uh, John Mapes has always brought such like a clean product to everything that he's been associated with. So I, for one, am at least excited to see him back on the DCI i field. Yeah, I think it's going to be cool. I'll be excited to see how like the existing staff and like the box six crew kind of integrate and make something cool. Yeah. Stoked to see it.
00:11:57
Speaker
i I have to shout out, uh, Connor Yasuda for this one, because he is moving from, I believe he's at blue coats, but he's moving from blue coats to mandarins with, with mates and everybody to do the caption head battery manager stuff. And I was like, Hey, I'm a big fan of Connor. So like.
00:12:13
Speaker
that's ah That's a cool change for me, man. I'm i'm so happy for that, dude. he's He does great work. Zach, right? Zach, the snare tech from Bluecoats is going. Yeah, he's not a coach anymore. Yeah, that would make too much sense. Mandarin's, I thought I might have inferred that from him leaving like the same time the Pulse guys get back into DCI.
00:12:33
Speaker
so That's cool though, because what something that I've been thinking is interesting with mandarins is like that they're getting so close to cracking into that like top end of the activity. So at the same time, like getting a staff that's more from like a top three drum line brought into that fold, it kind of maybe that gives you the leg up to really start to compete at that like top end level.
00:12:55
Speaker
that's you know That's what I was sitting here thinking like, wow, you know it's good it's great to see the evolution of that drum corps because they're moving along pretty pretty smoothly. you know They're not stalling out. Sometimes you get to where they are and you just stall out and you never get past that seventh place and then they die.
00:13:15
Speaker
And yeahp exactly it's it's really neat to see the evolution of their programming, the evolution of just the majority of the drum corps is definitely coming forward. I dig that, their choice in staffing. Yeah, I think it's really super cool.
00:13:34
Speaker
super cool and that's why I think they are doing so well. It's like it's hard to get out like a seven five range same and indoor ah because a lot of times students will do a group around there and then they'll try to leave to go to their dream core in the top five. But I think the reason why mandarins is so successful lately is that they do design like such cool shows like people really want to be a mandarin because they know they're going to have an awesome summer.
00:13:58
Speaker
like i wish that all the other designers in the activity would take a little note from that one and learn like the power of just making a very good show i think you're kind of hitting the nail on the head because like this story like back they have to go they have to take a gamble okay where does this one come up in history what do you let's let's go history ah Well, first off, when I used to do Jersey Surf, we used to go head to head with mandarins. They don't want to kick the slop out of us, but that's all. And they were Asian. They were all Asians. There was only one Caucasian man in the drum corps. I was like, wow, look at that. They were small though, but they were they were good then too. So they ah it was always in them. They just didn't have everything in place. So it's very exciting to see that grow.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Very cool to see the the like a group like that actually starts to really knock on the door of like meddling in something like that. Yeah, that was good last year too. Like I think they could start continuing for a Sanford within like the next five years. If Mape stays there and they get like the sort of drummers, they get a pulse and teach them like they do.
00:15:12
Speaker
I think you're right. um But dude, it kind of makes me think of the other big staff switch up, which if I'm being honest is where I would have wanted John Mapes to wind up in a way. I think that if you had John Mapes and the the kind of like pulse work ethic and like approach to excellence,
00:15:30
Speaker
at Carolina Crown. Then I think you would have found like that east coast blend that's kind of kind of west coast, but kind of is all about that like refinement that Crown achieves.
00:15:44
Speaker
I think missed opportunity. That would have been a really cool one, in my opinion. But I also like the staff that is actually in over there. We've got, I think, Joe Hobbs and Cliff Walker, who seems like some of you guys might be a little more familiar with than me. have ah Do you guys have any experience with them or or lines they've been around? I marched under Joe, Coach, and he's really like got the blue collar work ethic. You know what I mean? Like he's he's down to just grind.
00:16:12
Speaker
and I'm super happy for him. Like this is a big position for him and I think he's going to do great. That's awesome. That's what crown is about. Like my crown experience was grinding. That's, that's exactly what is perfect for that group. So I'm excited to see that one come through. Um, and then the other sad one, the flip side of this crown coin as a bass drummer, I'm very sad about it, but no more Mike Jackson at crown.
00:16:40
Speaker
which is just a bummer for me. Always been probably my favorite arranger in the last couple of years when it comes to bass drumming. Who's shocking? Yeah, it is. It was so fast. I felt like there it was a lot better, year two in my opinion, than year one. I felt like it was a lot cleaner and you know they make decisions for whatever reasons they do, but I think I felt like Crown was on a path to a Sanford too if they just let it cook in the oven a little longer.
00:17:10
Speaker
That's, I feel like, you know, if if we're going to be fair with a drum staff or like a brand new drum staff coming in, you have to do the same thing you would do at like a high school setting. Cause like, you know, we've all taken over some sort of high school drum line. We came in and we were the ones like that first year you're there, you're working with the previous staff, seniors and juniors and all of their ideas.
00:17:28
Speaker
and then you graduate them and then you're still working with those juniors that still want to you know like this is what we did this is what we should do but the sophomores and freshmen are starting to soften up and starting to become your you know more your your type and then as soon as those juniors get out there that third year that's yours that's your drum line that's your vibe that's that's your voice like they're doing what you want them to do so they didn't even get three years i was kind of surprised about that like they only got two and then Like, I don't know, it just doesn't seem fair. But again, I have no idea how the inner workings of that relationship work.
00:17:59
Speaker
Yeah, of course. you know We don't get to see the like ah logistics of how it was working out for them as a team. But um I think that like even on the designer side, you you take your first shot. like Just trying to even imagine being Mike Jackson and writing for Broken City. And then it's like, I'm here with Michael Klesch and Matt Harloff. And it's like, you need to be in the crown show now.
00:18:23
Speaker
like It might take me a year or two to figure out my voice in the ensemble, you know, like it's just not my favorite decision. That's a gear shifter. It's funny. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was going to say it's funny because, uh, that whole subject you were talking about, I'm, I'm living that experience now taking over this band program so late and running into those very same things, you know,
00:18:52
Speaker
The older people are not happy. Some of the other people who don't know. And, you know, I'm trying to explain to everyone, just got a week. It's not happening this year. Just, just go with it. And so I'm with you on that. And it's a shame that they couldn't wait it out like that. but Not everybody has that patience or they don't look that far in the future. They want it now, you know,
00:19:20
Speaker
yeah And with this name comes a package and some people are expect it to just pop out box just ready did to go. Yeah. Right. There are a lot of expectations. I'm sure put on Mike when it's like, Oh, this super interesting voice from indoor come be at crown. And if it's not, if we're not winning drum trophies right away, what are you doing? It's not the same thing, but yeah, right I will say that on the other side of that though, is that like,
00:19:48
Speaker
coming from you know Dan and Travis and the way that Crown used to play like very like mathematical just loud duper rules going to like probably like the most esoteric drumline writing you can find you know it's probably just it's Mike Jackson's design is It's the way that he's going to make it. And like, that is his style. He's so deep in it. And it's not bad, but it might not have been what Crown wanted, you know? Yeah. And I think you're right too. I think like, uh, groups in the top five are usually like focusing on.
00:20:24
Speaker
A goal, like our goal is to win brass. Our goal is to win percussion. Our goal is to whatever. So I think at a group like Crown, it's it's hard if their goal is usually to win brass. I think that's always going to be Crown's goal. Van and Travis's book and most of the Crown books over the years are really supportive of that goal. And I don't know that like Broken Cities book is as like beneficial to brass being so well aligned, but.
00:20:53
Speaker
If you take the grass out of the equation, they had the coolest percussion ensemble. If you just listen to the Perk ensemble, it's so cool. They're undeniable cool. That's what I'm saying. They had the most hand-to-hands of any bass line in DC. Yes. For better or for worse, there was so many hand-to-hands.
00:21:12
Speaker
i know i know manyu handto-hand I know there's way more nuance than this, but like like they lost brass to blue coats and what they do is like, that's it, fire the drum staff. like I know that's That's kind of what I'm saying though. I think it is a little bit kind of what goes on.
00:21:32
Speaker
But yeah, dude, they just the thing I love too about the writing, they have a part in their feature where they're just playing threes. It's just the top three playing threes. It's like that. And I thought it was so hot. Like I was like, it's just threes, but they do it so well. And it's like written into this like seven, eight kind of ah rhythmic pattern. It's hey that's good. And if you ask me, that's probably why they were attracted to him because he is a very thinner writer, you know? And so they're thinking, he's not gonna be in the way of the horns. Yes, that's our guy, you know? Yeah, okay. But look i guess that make we we dig all the the rhythmic the rhythmic exploration that it goes into. Horn players are really not into that so much. and Can you like push that a little bit closer to the downbeat?
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah. You just want to keep doing the three strokes over and over again? Yeah, that's the beauty of it all. Yeah, it's fat as hell. Be careful. yeah you you know If you need a shot on count one release, Mike might not be your guy. Yep, exactly. No, I think you're right. And I guess it really probably is nothing more at its core than just a stylistic mismatch. But I hope he does get a good voice back in a drum course sometime soon.
00:23:05
Speaker
signed bass drummers everywhere. All right on that note let's uh let's pop over into this commercial break here and when we get back we're gonna talk all about that SoCal bass
00:23:23
Speaker
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00:23:38
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:24:33
Speaker
All right, and we are back. And finally, after like what has felt to me like weeks of waiting, I've literally been like this excited to do this episode. ah We're going to hear about this SoCal-based camp.
Founding of SoCal Bass Camp
00:24:45
Speaker
So Matt, why don't you take it away? Tell us about the day and tell us kind of about what the camp's all about.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah, so SoCal Basecamp kind of got started as just an idea I had. you know I've been around bass drums forever since 2002, been playing and teaching bass drum. I've taught Pow, Pulse, RCC, Broken City now. ah So I've been to all the clinics, I've been to all the you know summer drum days, all the auditions, and everything was just always so snare focused.
00:25:20
Speaker
and you know, I hate seeing a bunch of bass drummers like standing there with their hands in their pockets while the snare drums get raps on eights. So I wanted to do our own thing that doesn't start with like, here's how you hold a stick. ah So I thought like, we have the people and so how I have all my friends are bass drummers mostly, and they all live within like 100 miles of here. So were really lucky to have that. And, you know, I didn't want to do it with like the backing of a group or like make it, you know, like Vic Firth presents base camp. I wanted it to just be base camp.
00:25:59
Speaker
And yeah really, it's so cow-based camp because that's where I live, not to be like exclusionary or you know make anyone feel left out. But that's where I live and that's where it happens. So that's what it is for now. We'll see. But um I started out just talking to Caleb. you know Caleb and I marched a bunch together. So I talked to Caleb like, hey, what do you think about this? And the first thing he said was like, yes, let's do it.
00:26:23
Speaker
Because even back in the day, we used to talk about like, man, if I hit the lotto, I would just pay for the RCC baseline to march every year. And they would be only section in the group that didn't have to pay. And I just thought like, dude, let's like do something for the community.
00:26:39
Speaker
So talk to Caleb. I met Jacob Wetzel this last year, ah Tech at Pulse. um He's super cool. Hit him up and he was super down. Just like, thank you for the opportunity. This sounds amazing. yeah You know, hit up Joey Martinez. We marched together. He's the Tech at Cavaliers. They had just won the Samford when I was thinking about this. I talked to Richie Rodriguez at Vanguard. They just won the Samford like in August at SCV. So he's an old student of mine. So that's kind of where it started was just like,
00:27:09
Speaker
If we just have like 3 or 5 texts, it's cool and then as I kept thinking about it like, oh, maybe we'll have like 20 or 30 kids and the Instagram kept growing and growing and I was like, oh, maybe we could do like 50 kids and ended up as 65 kids.
00:27:24
Speaker
So we had 11 staff, and those are the people that teach at the groups, Broken City, Pulse, RCC, Blue Devils, ah SCV, all of that. And then we had seven celebrity techs that are the people in those drum lines.
00:27:41
Speaker
Kobe that did, I think, Blue Devils and Pulse, ah Zoe that did Bluecoats and RCC and Broken City, Bethany Betancourt that did Bluecoats and Broken City. I've either like taught or kind of know. Some of them I just like straight up hit up on Instagram and said like, hey, we're doing this thing. Are you interested? And everyone, every single person said like, let's do it.
00:28:04
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it was so cool to watch the rollout in that way too, because I don't know like where exactly along the way you definitely were like already in your firestorm of announcing texts, I feel like um when I found the page. But I think even me and the DC texted about it at one point, we're like, dude, there's just like so many people involved in this thing, like,
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah, and that was so for that's kind of my idea for the draw, right? Like if it was just like me and Caleb, then like we could get some people, but it would have been a lot of like, all right, we'll have one baseline of six people and we'll just like rotate people in, but with 15, 18 texts, we can split up into as many drums as we have. So I hit up everyone. I hit a Pacific Crest. It was nice enough to give us their drums. They had two sets of drums. That's cool. a Dark Sky gave us their drums. Ayala, it was at Ayala High School. So Ayala lent us their drums.
00:29:02
Speaker
um, Cytle Entertainment, uh, that does the Chargers drumline and the LA Kings drumline. Um, they gave us their 10 drums. Uh, so I'm forgetting. Oh, Dan Wall at California Drum Shop, uh, gave us some drums. So we got drums from everywhere and I just was driving around Friday afternoon with a U-Haul with like 30 drums in it.
00:29:25
Speaker
So yeah, that's awesome. Got there, got 65 kids registered, and I think we had eight full baselines. I could be wrong about that. It was seven or eight. Wow. Full baselines going at once. Yeah. So all the texts could kind of choose like, all right, like you guys group up, go there. As long as there's like one tech, I think we have between like one and three texts at every baseline throughout the day. And it's just like, whatever the people in front of you want to play, like let's play that. Like, do you see them and see that they need to work on like full strokes, down strokes and taps? Then do that for a little bit. And we rotated texts and I think every hour or so, like every hour, hour and a half, just to get like the most texts per person yeah that we could. and So that was really, really cool. and
00:30:14
Speaker
the feedback that I've gotten from the students so far, I'm still like collecting those surveys, but everything's been pretty positive. I think the hardest part was separating everyone because you know like yeah we're like best friends that play base one and two, but there's not a baseline for us. So trying to get everyone into baselines without saying like, oh, these are the good kids, these are the bad kids, you know whatever. yeah like No one wants to be put in a group that they don't want to drum in. So we just wanted it to be like,
00:30:41
Speaker
Open choice, like if you want to be with this group, cool. If if you don't have a group, like we'll put you with a group and you'll still get to play bass drums. So any day you're playing bass drum is a good day. Agreed. That's a tricky problem to solve, though. I see what you're saying, because like on one hand you want to give the students the opportunity to work on the skills that are right for their level. So in that regard, like you do want a little bit of like a stratification between like the lines in terms of experience.
00:31:10
Speaker
ah But at the same time you definitely don't want to create that kind of like a audition Environment where there's pressure and stuff like that it ah It kind of reminds me in some ways of an audition It kind of does not remind me in a lot of ways of an audition But it like is there any sort of compare and contrast since you've done so many auditions and you've done one clinic Kind of how it feels the same and different I would say it felt like an audition in the way that just like everyone's sitting on the floor with their pads at the beginning of the day. like Everyone just showing up, drumming a little bit, that kind of like noisy cafeteria vibe. but Everyone just kind of like checking out the drums. but
00:31:53
Speaker
I don't really think it had much like audition vibe once it started drumming. It was very like open, relaxed, like a lot of information being given out, a lot of like, okay, like, hold on, we started too fast, right? We started trying to play like okay Vanguard stick control. Like let's take it back. Let's play like no eights and like figure it out first or like, let's just work on like rebound strokes. Um, so I don't know. I got to just walk around a lot.
00:32:23
Speaker
So just observing you know different texts, do what they do, and see like all the different things that people were playing. you know We didn't have any expectation that people would show up knowing the packet that we put out. I wrote a packet. We wrote a packet, honestly, just to have stuff to play if people wanted to play that. If they didn't, cool. If you, as a tech, just say, like oh, I have this exercise that I like to do for this skill set. Cool. Great. Play it.
00:32:55
Speaker
Yeah. That's ah that's such so cool because like something I've thought was valuable about my marching career was like being exposed to a lot of different instructors who had like different ways of teaching or different things that they focused on and prioritized, which like at the end of my career I felt made me very wow ah well-rounded as a bass drummer. And it's like you get to condense that into like a day for a 15-year-old who's like about to go down the path instead.
00:33:22
Speaker
and like expose them to all this different information, these like different styles of teaching, which kind of could inform and and inspire where they want to go with their marching career. That's like a very cool idea. i really I really love everything about the idea. Why don't you take us through the ah day, I guess, from like beginning to end a little bit. I know you mentioned that it started off a little bit too quick. and i I think I remember you mentioning earlier that there's a ah of a mega baseline at the end. So what's the progression from start to finish? Sure. So at the beginning, we did like introductions. Obviously, we had a million texts, so had to do like intros for everyone, got to give everyone their props and you know all of that. I definitely wanted to highlight all of those amazing bass drummers that teach. um That's my favorite part of this is like
00:34:15
Speaker
getting to say like, look at this person, look at these people and how much they've accomplished and all these great baselines they've taught. like and So that was really cool. And then you know we split up.
00:34:28
Speaker
When he says he liked to introduce everybody, I swear to you, he introduced every single person. He's thinking about 18 staff members standing there, however many there were of us. He went down the line. I didn't think he was going to do it. He did down the line. Started on me. He kept going and he just hit every single person and talked about every single person at the clinic. I was like, this is cool. Now they're getting to really know who these people are.
00:34:53
Speaker
the He did that. It was appreciated. Did he have a list? Did he have a list like you? No, no, no. He was legitimately all his friends. And if they weren't his friend, he was like, wait, what'd you do? Wait, I just met you. What else did you do? Anything else? It was really great. It was cool. Humble. Yeah, so we got everyone's full bios out there. Didn't talk about jobs or real life at all. Yeah. Just like, hey, I did a lot of things. I think there's enough fish around. Right.
00:35:24
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much base drum is everyone's life that was there anyways. So that's what we focused on. And then um after that, we just did some like health and safety stuff, you know, um water. It was so hot, man. I think it was like 102, 109 in Chino Hills that day. It was so hot. And we were super lucky to have like a cafeteria multi-purpose room as like a home base for registration. ah We had ah like two nurses there. um nice yeah We had like plenty of like health and safety stuff. We had a sunscreen table, bug spray table, um first aid kits and stuff. So that stuff was really important to me that everyone like was safe.
00:36:06
Speaker
yeah Because, you know, I don't have the backing of like a big nonprofit that can kind of like shield from that. yeah So, you know, like liability waivers and stuff like that were super, super important to me. So like, I'm not on the hook if like a base drum falls on someone.
00:36:22
Speaker
But and all of that actually sounds like the the huge undertaking that you that you don't want to think about when you have these sorts of ideas. It's like, what's the legal steps and like the logistics of getting the drums, getting the rehearsal space, doing everything it takes? I'm sure it was a huge undertaking just to like coordinate the event.
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah. um You know, we're super lucky. Darren Vanderpool, who is like the head of Ayala's percussion program, ah taught at Mandarin, did RCC with me. He runs Cytol Entertainment, does the Chargers drumline, the Kings drumline, other events. um He works at Ayala, so he I asked him like, hey, like, is that even a possibility? If not, like I'll just go down the line. like I'm just going to ask everyone I know. He was the first person I asked. He's like, yeah, let me ask the band director. I'll let you know tonight. And at 10 p.m., he texted me like, yep, good to go. So I was just like so fortunate on that end.
00:37:25
Speaker
like he was there all day like opening up bathrooms, you know hey, stay out of this area because like admin is on that side and sometimes there are demonstrators on Saturday. So he gave us all the loadout on the the zones and everything. So that was super cool.
00:37:42
Speaker
and um Yeah, as far as like legal stuff and picking up drums, I would just like shoot awake in the middle of the night like, I need to do this. Because like, I'm not, I'm not a wedding coordinator or like, I'm just a bass drummer, man. I just want to play a beat, honestly.
00:37:59
Speaker
and so I would just like think of something and like write it down and then like, okay, I'll try to go back to sleep now and wake up the next morning like, all right, I've got to like do these liability waivers. I got to figure that out. All right, I got to start asking people about drums. Just like one thing at a time was kind of my ethos is like, all right, i need a I need to sell tickets so I can have money to buy merch.
00:38:19
Speaker
So I started selling tickets, and then after I sell X amount of tickets, I can buy some merch. After I you know sell X plus one amount of tickets, i yeah, just like yeah one thing after another, I'm not a rich guy, so I wasn't like trying to put a ton of stuff on credit cards or anything. So I just sold like chunks of tickets, kind of like, I don't know, like Supreme does like Supreme drops. I did ticket drops.
00:38:46
Speaker
So it was like 20 tickets at a time, like Sunday at 10, 20 tickets are on sale, get them if you can. And people ran. We sold out every ticket drop in like less than eight hours. So that was super, super cool. Everyone was like really hungry for them. And that got the money. So I could buy merch, buy you know all the stuff that we needed, rent a U-Haul, all that kind of stuff that was needed. ah Yeah, that was a very intelligent way to do it. It's almost like you put like I feel like it sounds bad to call it like a scarcity on it at first, but like you got to fill all of the spots that you could and get everything you done you need it done um and kind of grow it along the way because it kept looking like you want to be here. These these tickets keep selling out. That's really smart. What was the time frame? Actually, yeah, go ahead, Woody.
00:39:45
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, obviously bass drumming is all about the family matter. You know what I mean? Like the guys, when you guys, when bass drum lines are together, they're together. It's a different thing than the rest of the drum line. You're right. I've like bringing so many people who have never played together before. And, you know, was that,
00:40:15
Speaker
Was that spirit there because it was just all bass drummers not having to stop for a mandatory snare sectional?
00:40:26
Speaker
Hey, so Matt, Matt, when he did his his introductions, he took care of that problem right at the front, like without having to worry about like, hey, you know, ah you got to pick your tech, you might not like them kind of thing. No, he introduced everybody literally as friends and family. Like he was like, these are my best friends. These are the people that I love and I trust these people and they're going to give good information. So like, and and it it seems like everybody was just like, OK, cool. Then it seems like no matter where I go, we're going to have a good time and we're going to drum together. pretty well, and we're going to get info. So like it was kind of like he nipped it in the bud by presenting a the the right attitude to have in this. like This is not auditions. This is for you. This is to get better. And it felt weird. Yeah. People be nervous like they're at an audition or whatever. You know you don't want that kind of vibe. You want the kids, you want the people to come in and say, hey, I'm ready to learn. Show me the goods.
00:41:21
Speaker
i I wish I could have seen this. that That's pretty cool, Steve. We've got to do something here on the east side. I know. I was going to say, you've got to bring one out here. I'll connect you with a couple of good base decks. The color guards out here in the metro Philadelphia, or New York area, they have spin clinics. So it's very similar. We just don't have this. Yeah, it's just never really been a thing. I'm looking to you, Steve.
00:41:49
Speaker
I, and Matt, just tip me up, you know how to DM me. We can figure out how to do one out here. Steve and I were talking about this and it's like, it's kind of a, it feels harder for the East coast because it's so decentralized, right?
East vs West Coast Drum Culture
00:42:05
Speaker
Like yeah yeah from New York to Florida, you've got bass drummers everywhere where like SoCal is like a really close like geographical place where there's a ton of people like all there to drum.
00:42:18
Speaker
I always admired that about the whole California setup. like There's so much more camaraderie within your drum circle than here where Steve and I live. like We are competitive. like yeah Hi, I'm your friend sometimes. Bye. That's the only reason that you even would have ever described yourself as friends even too, like until a couple of years ago. you It would not have been so pleasant in any way.
00:42:47
Speaker
ah you know i when the ah when When I used to talk to all the guys when I was deeply involved in the WGI thing, meeting all the guys from out west, that's all they ever talked about is like how they all hang, how they do this, how they all do this together and like we don't have that. no No. It's a lot like you said, we're so spread out and decentralized that it's almost impossible. like How many people do you talk to all the time from George Mason?
00:43:21
Speaker
um Who, Steven? I had one at RCC last year. It's only the diesel. I was working with the GMU. I was working with Ann Turner last year. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah, OK. I don't know if I know. That's really what it is. It's like we have one person that gets out. Yeah. What's funny is that when I go to Mason, I just talk trash about Steve the whole time.
00:43:46
Speaker
While at United, dude, we're working. So all the time we're talking trash, we're working. We're having more fun, though.
00:43:57
Speaker
That's funny. I literally describe it to people as like an East Coast bass drum arms race between me and the DC. Just like, it's at all times I'm telling them, I'm like, look, being better than Mason is a given. We need to make, we need to like,
00:44:17
Speaker
I'm always, always, always concerned that the DC is chomping at my heels, but... I'm way past your heels, bud. We'll see. We'll see, my friend. Way past your heels.
00:44:30
Speaker
YouTube base got like 30 people coming out for auditions. They're ready to go. All ah But let's keep this one. We could do another episode about how United's better than Mason. That's a different. thing Yeah, let's say that for next week. Yeah. Invite me back for them. Invite me back for them. I want to be there for that. ah But Matt, um when did you first have this idea? Like how long was the time frame from like, I'm going to do this to we're at camp?
00:44:58
Speaker
I made the Instagram, I looked it up July 15th, and the camp was September 7th. ah So like seven weeks, I probably had the idea like a week before that. So probably like around 4th of July, um Broken City had a summer clinic and you know no hate on Broken City. That's not what this is at all. Just to like preface that. But it was like one more of those clinics where like
00:45:29
Speaker
You know, I'm out there recruiting, like trying to get students to show up. And, you know, I got a couple of kids to show up super excited, like high school students that were excited about Broken City. And then like the first half of the first block was just like watching the snare sectional again. Yeah, which like it's going to happen every week, right? And they didn't get there was like, you know, snare sectional.
00:45:54
Speaker
It was like six drums set up and like 14 kids and they're, it's like, you know, you forget to say switch. And then like some of those kids don't like feel like getting up there. Cause it does feel like so like, Oh, if I don't show out right now, when I show up to auditions, they're gonna be like, Oh no, that guy's not good. He didn't do well at the clinic. it was Like some kids just like self eliminate almost and say like, Hey, come on, we're switching. Like, no, I'm good. And like, that breaks my heart, man. Uh, I want students to just like,
00:46:24
Speaker
get time on a drum. I want them to have fun. And it's just like, even though it's like summer clinic, whatever, like auditions aren't for three months, it's still felt that way. um And I don't really know what the answer is to that, but ah that was like my fire. Like, okay, it's time to do this thing that's not affiliated with a group. There is no pressure. It's just going to be fun and like as many amazing base texts as possible.
00:46:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's awesome. That's an angle of it that I didn't even consider that like, yeah, at an, in any group affiliated environment, there's pressure that you're like set, you're basically always auditioning until you're contracted.
00:47:07
Speaker
Yeah, you're trying to make a name for yourself, which is good. like If you go to those things and you like show up and you're prepared and professional, like you can you know make a name for yourself and like, oh, we need to watch out for that person next time they come. But you know that's not the most important thing about a summer clinic in my eyes, but as a student, yeah I can definitely see like how that looks.
00:47:31
Speaker
right so it's it's pretty cool especially because like it opens the door to the younger people wanting to be involved because i think there's always some aspect with an audition clinic for a drum line where it's like if you know you're not at the level to make the drum line then you probably aren't gonna go this opens that experience like gets i because i also at the same time think like it's not until you're doing it in real life and you're like standing next to drumming with someone who's independent that like a high schooler is like, oh, okay, wait, you just like do it like that and it's better. I don't know. It seems like once you're there in real life, it always helps like students get to that next level. So opening the door to where it's like more comfortable for a younger student to go be in real life with ah like really well-qualified base tech and and surrounded by other people that are really good at what they're doing is so cool, so far into what we do.
00:48:27
Speaker
um And I want to wrap this, send it to a commercial in just a sec. I was thinking of something a minute ago that I think is so cool. um You guys officially set up the largest gathering of bass drummers probably in history. I don't think that there ever would have been a moment where there would be more bass drummers occupying the same space, especially in a higher concentration.
00:48:52
Speaker
You know, so like pretty cool. What do you made me think that way when he said that bass drummers are always so like clicky and and stuck to each other? It's like, wow, this is a giant, giant gaggle of bass drummers that you put together. With the 65 students, 18 texts. I don't, I'm not good at math. I just play bass drum, dude. 80 some.
00:49:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's like more than an indoor ensemble worth of strictly bass drummers. Half a drum corps of strictly bass drummers. Awesome. So cool. as a first When we were talking about like, you know, everybody kind of being set up at the beginning or like sitting there in the room waiting for the whole thing to start, they're all drumming on their drum pads. Like we've all been to an audition before we've all, you know, worked with a group that was auditioning. And you know, that sound, you know, like that, that hollow sound, everybody's drumming on stuff. And you moved over and there was a gaggle of people all drumming. And it was like, what did me like, it was good for my heart to know, there's not, that's
00:49:55
Speaker
all bass drummers. They're all bass drummers here. Like we got some crazy looking left hands out there trying to play tradition, but like some of ugliest left hands. Like it was so funny, man. Like it was it was a trip because if I saw that many kids auditioning for bass drum, I'd be furious. I'd be like, no, half of you have to leave. There's no way you're off. But like, for a clinic, that was heartwarming, man.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's so cool. The whole story is very heartwarming as a bass drummer. I'm very happy that you guys did it. I feel like most of the sections of an entire drum corps should have an equivalent. Like honestly, but it's cool that it came out of bass drum first to the extent that I'm aware of it. And I love the the idea. So what are we doing?
00:50:48
Speaker
What are we doing? Oh, I never even. Jungle beat. Josh Lada laying down those bass drums down there. I never even thought about it much till we've been talking about them. All right. I got the water we doing to kick us off here. because This is one of the most fundamental things I've ever been asked about bass drum all the time. Risk break versus wrist rotation. In my opinion, there is no debate.
00:51:13
Speaker
I think that if you were to imagine yourself drumming on a flat surface, there is never a world where even a baby would consider drumming by like rotating their hand at the pad the way that you would a bass drum that you're playing sideways. There's nothing that's fundamentally different about drumming. It's the same physics there is a little bit of a difference in that you're you're not interacting with gravity on the upstroke and the downstroke in the same way. But why would you alter everything about the muscle groups that you play with and do everything so inefficiently? Simply just because, just cause. I can end the sentence there. It's literally just cause. There's no good reason to do it. I think I will probably
00:52:02
Speaker
not be the minority opinion in this, uh, in this podcast call here. But what do you guys think on a risk-breaking rotation? Well, go for it. I mean, okay. You were talking a little double that you were talking about, uh, you know, the fact that you don't have a, like the students aren't
Bass Drum Technique Debate
00:52:21
Speaker
practicing. They're not getting the reps in that they need to get in. You know, like they, like they say they're practicing for a half hour a day, but are they,
00:52:29
Speaker
What better way to give them free time to practice than to give them a technique that's the same as opening a door? All they got to do is just go places, and they're getting their practice in. See? You're right. That's a good enough reason right there. Real world practice. like Drumming isn't natural. Bass drumming is not natural. But if we can find something real in this world that they can attach to, like a doorknob. Check this out. I'm bad, Nancy. With my younger students, I use that technology all of the time hold your hand out grab the doorknob now here's the problem there's not many doorknobs around anymore see you gotta go to risk break because there's not as many doorknobs and you know what you can do you can knock on the door that's the risk break analogy i give all the time baby
00:53:24
Speaker
I'll say i a door I've done like a little ah like research I guess on this just like trying to form some opinions and the reason I think wrist break feels better just off the bat is because you're using like this this wrist motion right and these are this is like a quick muscle you know what I mean versus when you rotate you're using your bicep which is like a slower muscle but There is research, like real medical research that you can change you know the the ah composition of your muscle fibers just with how you train, which is why I think some people are really good ah at rotation. like There's like 10 or 11 people that can do it really well. But just like off the bat, like
00:54:15
Speaker
You use you know your bicep to like carry groceries. like That's why you're playing so hard in the drum when you rotate. And then you're using your wrists for like smaller things, you know like writing like notes.
00:54:28
Speaker
um That's just what I've learned. That's very interesting to hear you guys all talk. Well, first off, you probably don't know, but I'm a little bit of a ringer. You know, I'm a mole. I'm a snare drum mole. Oh, I see. I am in our call. I'm flat in here right now. There's a flat in this room, huh? Yeah, I don't mess with flat. You let a flat out of here. That's allowed. I just happened to be Steve's assistant. So, you know.
00:54:56
Speaker
And I was very excited about it because it's a very educational thing for me just to hear you. Believe it or not, I am pro bistro. Very pro bistro. I would hope so. you So you're like a sleeper cell. We can leave you in a room full of snare drummers and you'll get them splitting. Yeah, i I am that guy because When I write, it it starts from the bottom up. It it really does. As it should. As it should. If that's not right, then people, they try to fix it with the wrong voices. And it's usually, well, it's because you got the bass drums in the wrong voicing order going against the tenors in the wrong way. And you constantly keep trying to fix the tenors. It's not the tenors, you idiot. It's the bass drum.
00:55:48
Speaker
Well, dude, what are you being around here? There's like two or three people that can write for a baseline in our neck of the woods. It's crazy. It's really rough out here. It's very interesting to hear you talk about the risk break thing because I don't teach that at all. And like I said, I'm I teach the kids, there's nothing no different from this snare drum and that bass drum, except for the playing changes. Nothing, nothing changes. And then I use a doorknob and then when they're not quite, when they don't quite get the doorknob, just follow your thumb to the head, rotate, rotate. And it seemed to get it very quickly. So I'm very interested to hear all the, this is new information for me.
00:56:38
Speaker
you don't get this it's good information for you though good information for you and and snare drummers listening too because the the moral of the story is you teach it the same way like you should try to get your bass drummers to have chops and be able to play fundamentally the same types of stuff they don't maybe need the small finger skills in the same way but like to get your bass line playing like even just good rolls would actually get them to be so good at just playing their threes in a way that like makes no sense, but I swear is true. They just need chops. That's all they need.
00:57:14
Speaker
i don't know why he to be chopped I don't know why people do that. why they so They even do it with front ensembles. like They act as though the front ensemble stroke is some kind of new foundational stroke that's different from the initial. Yeah, right. It changes over here if you're not on the field. If you're in front of the field, physics doesn't work the same over here.
00:57:39
Speaker
i so I'm very passionate. It's almost, I feel like I'm on an island by myself preaching and they're like, he's crazy. um I'm out on that medium strip. Please give cash to God.
00:57:52
Speaker
yeah you know how not to Break your wrist, like you said. Don't stop. Doesn't matter what you play. Tambourine, sand drum, bass drum, it's the same stroke, people. Stop it. hey Fundamentally the same stroke. When I marched Coats, um like we had ah we had this Vigtech who just worked the battery, and he was ah he was a bass tech. So I don't know why he wasn't the bass tech, right? But then like for a second, the main bass tech like took a couple of weeks off, and he came in.
00:58:22
Speaker
And like he was given information that like we all hadn't talked about. right And like on one of the water breaks, I was like just you know chewing the fat with him, asking him some stuff. And i and he was like, oh yeah, like if I'm running a a group, like if I'm running a drum line, and I'm the only one teaching the entire drum line, and I'm working with the snares and quads, like For bass drums, if it's like four freshmen's who have no idea what to do with anything, I just tell them, hey, put the mallet right here, and you just tone it like this, and then everybody looks the same, and everybody sounds the same, because that's easy. But like knowing this guy, to me, it was like, you're not teaching that at all, nor did you march like that. like It's just crazy that he uses it more utilitarian than he does than as a a future focus. like This is just to get everything working, to get everybody to play on the downbeat the same way with the same approach.
00:59:05
Speaker
And then if you start looking this way, you're going to want to play on a pad, you probably want to. So like he's kind of maybe creating more problems for the down the line kind of thing with those kids. But like I can understand, you know, it being easy to see for a new set of eyes. Like when I was in high school, my bass tech did that. Like she was like, it was a little door knobby. It was like, yeah, I feel like I started breaking my wrist just because like I wanted to play a flat drum. I wanted to play snare. I wanted to play something, you know what I mean? So I started playing on ah on a pad. But like,
00:59:32
Speaker
on bass drum, it was like, Oh, yeah, I get that. That makes sense. Sure. That's easy. you know Right? Like, I also wasn't playing anything dedicated in high school. So like, rebound might still be elusive, or like how you use the back of the hand with with rotation. I'm not dead certain how that all works. You know what I'm saying? But like, I could understand why you would do it. I just don't do it.
00:59:52
Speaker
And I think the evidence kind of points to what the DC is saying. and Like you see the lines that rotate do have like that kind of a bigger muscle type of sound where it's like the unisons and the fours are just, they're just bigger from those lines that rotate. So like shout out Boston, Boston, just like whales on those drums. And when they play those fours that like cranked past vertical, like those things are loud, dude. Yeah, exactly.
01:00:19
Speaker
Mystique every year, in my opinion, Mystique has the best fours every year and they just, they just crank them the same exact way. And like they make Christian, it's just loud force. Like they, they know their technique and they make it, they pull the sound out. It's, it's crazy. So I guess different strokes for different folks, one might say, but okay.
01:00:40
Speaker
one One hill I'll definitely die on with technique is I cannot stand hybrid techniques. and like if you If you think you play like between wrist break and rotation, like you're really just not doing either. and it It makes it really hard for the student to go to a different group that plays a dedicated technique. And even if they go to a group that plays hybrid, it might be a different definition of hybrid. You know what I mean?
01:01:09
Speaker
so yeah but We need to stop doing that. I agree. Cause I also think like, especially like you're saying, if you go to a different group after it's tough, but if you, if you do like a hybrid thing for a couple of years, maybe even just cause your base sex, not paying close enough attention, like you're going to develop like some weird muscles and then you're, you're going to actually end up limited because you're not going to be using the correct like muscle groupings. You're probably going to max out on what you're even like that capable of doing.
01:01:39
Speaker
I don't know. I at least felt like for me back in my day when I was doing a bit more of a hybrid technique and I like was using more arm, for instance, like I was not able to play so fast because I never tried to play from just my wrist. And it wasn't until I had a base tech that was really strict about it late in my career that I then developed the muscles. And then I got like tremendously more chops because I had these good big muscles and I developed these other ones, but.
01:02:09
Speaker
the Hey, man. Okay, to be fair, there was a, I remember when I was auditioning the for, I was auditioning some kids at the Academy, right? And there was some kid that came out, and he was drumming fine, the like, in time wise, like, his intro was pretty solid. But his hand, like, it looked like the definition, like, that's how you rotate. That's how you do this. If you are trying not to break your wrists, you look like this guy, He put his hands in a base drum museum somewhere. I remember he was auditioning for us. I felt bad that we had to cut him because his timing was money, but I don't want to ruin those hands. Those hands aren't meant for me. They're meant for a group that does that, and he needs to make that group. You're right. You're very right. You need to go to Madison. You need to go to a group that feeds into that back then. Yeah.
01:03:17
Speaker
because i Yeah, I'll take you and you can play bottom, but you're going to feel bad and you're never going to look the same and it's and you're going to work all summer to hate the way you feel. You know what I mean? Like it's my yeah ah yeah I respect, I respect, especially if you know what you're doing. that That's the way to go about it. I mean, we all have our opinions on what we think it should be. But, you know, you always got to step back and say, well, that's the way you feel about it. But, you know,
01:03:45
Speaker
Louis Belson is Louis Belson and Buddy Rich is Buddy Rich. And neither of the two play the same. And there's going to be some things about one that you don't like about the other, you know. but Yeah, exactly. Different stylistic choices. And I do appreciate both of them. I came on a little strong in the beginning. I would never personally teach rotation to my students. But that's because I'm better at break. So there's that.
01:04:13
Speaker
Yeah, people that are good at rotation are good at it. Oh, yeah. We've hammered this one down to death for a while talking on the bass drum technique. Do we have any other water we doings? Yeah, I'll go.
Bass Breaks in WGI
01:04:28
Speaker
overwriting all these bass breaks, honestly? I'm a WGI guy. like ah I prefer that to DCI. We can have that discussion another day.
01:04:39
Speaker
but um You go around the lot at WGI, and there are some of these groups that just play so many notes. And I'm sure it is so cool, but I have no idea what you just played. And to me, there is no achievement without like execution. like how How do you give credit when you just go like, oh my god, like you just put threes on like a 220,
01:05:06
Speaker
six tuples split or something like yeah let's just like leave a little bit of space you know like it doesn't have to be the fastest crammed full of notes two bars that you've ever played in your life maybe there's like room for a knuckle shot in there maybe it just needs to be pico pico pico at the end what's wrong with some good old fours i know that like the fours don't get all the claps anymore but what's wrong with just ending on for Well, dude, no, you say the fours don't get the claps anymore, but that's just when people are thinking about it. Like, yeah the fours get the claps. Like, yeah, because they rip.
01:05:46
Speaker
whenever and Whenever, like, especially I feel like people that are marching age are talking about their music, they're like, uh, just fours, just threes. But all the people that are in front of the line watching and listening, it's like, that's the coolest, not not the coolest, but that's some of the best sounding stuff that you can do on a bass show.
01:06:08
Speaker
is just your threes and your fours and your twos. You know what? I don't know how you guys feel about this, but if you think back to when you were marching, especially outdoor, and you're walking up to the stadium and you just hear a baseline from inside the stadium, they're just rips from threes and fours. You're like, oh my God, who's that? Who's that? Yeah, dude. It's a fantastic sound.
01:06:34
Speaker
One of my favorite things is being behind a drum corps. Like if you're about to go out in India or something because everyone else is facing the front, but the bases go both ways. So the baseline is like so readable from like 50 yards behind the core. It's, it's crazy. Oh, they're having a good show. Oh my God. Yeah.
01:06:57
Speaker
one I think one of the problems with like writing is that bass drummers are so getting so deep into like theory and what you could possibly do. and Then they start getting their arrangers to write like that. But there's like when you do that, you leave out like musicality. you know i mean it's like Sure, you could possibly do this crazy split and you might hit it, but like it doesn't sound good even when you do.
01:07:25
Speaker
Yeah, like ah fourth block baseline was at base camp. They performed at the end of the night and they don't play anything crazy but they play it all so like crispy and on the grid. It's just like 16th notes and fours and some hand-to-hands here and there but it's just like so open and boomy and they just play these like sick dotted eighth note patterns and stuff like it's also clear and readable. It's just like so fun to listen to when you're like, wait, ah go back five seconds. What was that? What am I watching?
01:07:59
Speaker
The thing the SoCal Basecamp thing, especially the lead up to it, was seeing all the the different instructors and like the the questionnaire that that Walter sent to them. Like, hey, what's your favorite? WGIDCI, what's your drum to play? Blah, blah, blah. You know, all that stuff. Because like the last question was the best one. And it was like, if all the kids at the clinic looked at this these questions, they would know what we're talking about. And it was like,
01:08:21
Speaker
It said, what do you think is most important? Or what do you think is something that you really cherish and bass drumming right now in this day and age? And I swear to you. And it's it's like in a very like a few different words, everybody said the exact same thing. And that was, I just wish that like I could make sure that the the beats were readable, it felt good, and the sounds were good. you know I feel like a lot of people overwrite things. A lot of people want to cram as much in there. But like if it doesn't feel good, like I'm telling you, every tech said that. Young, old, like doesn't matter. So we all know what we want to hear. But what people are trying to play is not always delivering on what we want to hear. you know But that's that's kind of the the selfish part about being a bass drummer, is you want to play stuff. But it's not the stuff that people always want to hear. It's the stuff that you want to play. you know It's a tough call. you know
01:09:10
Speaker
I definitely think that that's ah that's really tough for baselines lately. I thought it was funny the way you were describing it earlier. I think it might have been to DC. It's almost like we spent too much time thinking about we what we could play. We never considered if we should play.
01:09:30
Speaker
I'm right there with you. I hope that there's a return to form, in a sense, for bass drumming, where we ah stop maybe... I think the hand-to-hand in the right context is very fundamental, very right, and it sounds so good that it's it shouldn't be a cast aside, but I think maybe some of the other stuff, you gotta question if it's if the juice is worth the squeeze.
01:09:50
Speaker
I want to hear cool stuff. Nobody get me wrong here. I want to hear the coolest stuff you've got. Yeah, but you should just do that in an INE. That's my other quick. I don't want to make a full what are we doing out of this, but you could just just write a lick and just play it and record it and put it out there.
01:10:05
Speaker
that was going to be my, what are we doing? Like perfect. Where are the licks? What happened to bass drum licks? You know what I mean? I'm still like writing and like I'm, I'm going to be playing another lick soon. And like, I'm like three or four years out of the activity, you know, I'm just doing it for the love of the game because nobody else. The love of the game. Yeah. But it's like, you know, if you want to play all that crazy stuff, like write it for yourself and make a lick and then just so that you can do it. Hey, but if we're going to play like meaty stuff, like I'm down with the the densest media stuff. The one thing that I always ask and this is like, this is why I walk away from a bass lot every time I'll walk away from a bass lot so fast. It's not like over the dirty unisons or or badly placed notes. If it doesn't feel like music,
01:10:55
Speaker
If it feels like five people trying to split each other and I can't like move to it, like I can't feel it. yeah I don't want to be there, man. Like, cause ultimately that's what we should be doing is playing music. You know, I tell every auditioning group, I told ah the SoCal base camp, it's like, if what you're playing, you can't dance to.
01:11:14
Speaker
What are you playing, man? like you You don't like what you're playing if you can't even move to it. you know like yeah dude I saw some really, I've seen amazing bass lines. Like I said, I haven't missed a Dayton since 07. I've seen amazing bass lines in the lot and a lot of them just don't groove. They just yep play.
01:11:31
Speaker
and it's yeah Did you see out your horn for this one? AQ's bass lines while you were there are a some of my favorite bass lines ever, but also some of my favorite writing for how it did groove while also being such a great like demonstration of bass drum like excellence. Yeah, you got it. It takes like it's like a puzzle, you know, like trying to make a groove and also play like some impressive splits that bass drummers are going to like.
01:11:59
Speaker
But once you like figure out the puzzle and get the pieces in the right place, it's same with Condado, the solo that me and Steven played. and like It grooves, but it's also really hard. and like it's It's good, I think, for active members to try to write things like that because you learn a lot about bass drum in the process of doing that. You know what I mean?
01:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. I think that for a baseline, it's actually like the opposite of a snare line where I think if you did it early enough in the season, it's actually like really useful work maybe for you to try to play an I and&E that's harder than stuff you would write in the show. Like that's generally frowned upon in most environments to like have this superfluous music that we're going to play for no reason. But I think as a baseline, if you like learned how to play something that was really hard. Now, like when you just have a hand-to-hand at the end of your base feature in the show, like you're actually going to be so well-versed from going so far beyond that, that I think it would make you ah more consistent just at your hand-to-hands even. That was my experience, I felt like, at least like doing Kendata with you Didisi, it was like my ex-show music is so easy in comparison. Like just operating at a totally different level outside of rehearsal.
01:13:15
Speaker
yeah in a lot of ways. But do we got any ah any last water we do in here or do you guys want to pop over to the gush and goes? I think. ah Yeah, I'm thirsty. I agree. Let's let's get on over to it here fashion. Go um go for you.
01:13:34
Speaker
I'll gush and go real quick for you guys that are new to the show or for you guys on the call here that don't know it too well. It's just a quick chance to talk about something important to you, something you got going on. You got a minute or two to just feel about it, whatever you'd like. I'm really excited for United Auditions. I feel like I've got a million different things going on with in my life with band right now. And I'm like kind of not excited about so much of the band because I'm doing too much of it, but not United Auditions, man. I'm so excited. We've got like probably expecting like 30 base drummers to come out something close to that uh between the world group and the two group it's just like
01:14:12
Speaker
I was there back you know that was the first indoor that I did back in 2017 and did it for three years so like being back now on the staff side where the organization is so much bigger than it ever was and the baseline is better than it ever was and it's just like really cool to be like I'm not quite in the driver's seat there's directors and people above me and all but when it comes down to the baseline like I have a very large influence over something that's super important to me. So I'm very excited for it to ah get rolling again this season. It's just around the corner. Um, but Woody, what do you want to gush and go on about? Matt, he doesn't even have to get the U-Haul truck and drive all around. of know I'm glad I don't have to do that for auditions now. He missed that part. That was the part I had to do. Oh,
01:15:05
Speaker
Thank you to the Woody's of the world that allowed me to show up at 9 a.m. with a Dunkin Donuts coffee and get to work. Yeah, my goodness. I don't miss it. i So wait I guess ah what I'm excited for is ah it's actually, like I said, my my marching band thing next week is their is their first competition.
01:15:27
Speaker
oh I have to tell you, I've been working on going national with my judging stuff. and o yeah awesome So um this weekend i I have my first US bands assignment. So this is my first weekend out. Real excited
The Joys of Judging in Music Circuits
01:15:44
Speaker
about that. you know like yeah you know I can remember being your age and saying, I would never be a judge the so much. I can't tell you. I i love doing it. um It's like a newfound excitement. And I've met some new people because I
01:16:08
Speaker
I still work in my local circuit, but I moved and I now also do some US bands also. And I'm meeting so many new people and so many new contacts. It's like just get you fired up about it again. So ah I can't wait to get out there and give a heck of a job. That's how I'm going for. Yeah, it's awesome man that's awesome.
01:16:35
Speaker
Yeah, someone told me once they're like ah the cool thing about judging is how you kind of get to like teach all the teachers in the area now as you like to adjudicate first. Yes. But then you have critique after and like, sure, some of these programs are really good, really well educated, but others of them have folks that are just like from their high school and they graduated and now they're they're teaching. So it's like they need ah someone like Woody to tell them, like, yeah, you need to go track the drum feature. You know, you get to kind of just spread it around.
01:17:05
Speaker
they they They say you that um I'm easy to talk to like that. and And I do appreciate that. And on a side note, Steve, two weeks ago, I saw the Eagle Drumline. Yeah. And no birds baby you I just want to give them a shout out. yeah It was so heartwarming. First off, there are so many. yeah That was fun. I remember now you were you saw us in the lot.
01:17:32
Speaker
Yes, there are so many people in that drum line that my fingers have been on. You don't recognize it until they're all standing there. There's like 30 kids and of the 30, I'm like, they're like, hey Woody. Of the 30 kids, one of them is 50 years old.
01:17:55
Speaker
So I just want to give a shout out to that, you know, just in case you boys watch it. It was very heartwarming. Like it may made my day. That's the kind of thing that when you guys get this stuff right here, you'll look back and say, so, cause some young guys will come up to you and say, man, I remember the baseline. So Cal camp. It was so awesome. It'll be heartwarming for you, man. It was great. Thank you, Steve.
01:18:23
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, that was super cool. I had a lot of fun when ah you came out and you saw us warming up. That was a blast, Woody. um Did EC, what do you want to gush and go on about this week?
Personal Projects and Publications
01:18:33
Speaker
Um, I've got some projects that I'm working on. Um, I'm trying to get my YouTube back up. You can find it just my name dot EC. And, um, I've got some things I'm planning on posting on Instagram as well. Uh, underscore downbeats underscore.
01:18:50
Speaker
um Mainly for me, I'm not quite quite ready to like show it to the world yet, but um some people know me from a packet that I made. It was about 26 pages called Knowing Bass Drum, like just all about bass drum. I'm almost ready to publish the next edition of that.
01:19:13
Speaker
I'm not quite sure how it's going to look. It might split into two books, but it's like a lot of content about base trim. So yeah, that should be coming in the next couple of months. And you can just keep up with me on Instagram and YouTube until that happens.
01:19:32
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, dude, that's going to be a really, really cool resource, especially for the ah base techs of the world, particularly those that haven't played a lot of bass drum themselves, or maybe just the, I'm just the battery guy at my local high school. And I don't really know a lot about bass drum. Like your book is going to be a game changer for that guy. Yeah, it's crazy. I, when I wrote it, it was for our students, but so many instructors were like, wow, this is incredible. Like I really needed this information.
01:20:00
Speaker
So just as I've been like continuing to refine it, like I've had to keep that in mind that, you know, like I was writing about like tuning and like what drum sizes you should do is and muffling. Like these are not things for the students, right? Like this is stuff for the instructor. So yeah.
01:20:16
Speaker
Yeah, definitely keep an eye out for that one. I will ah do everything I can to blast that one over social media, just like I did with the base camp. um But that'll be cool once it's ah once it's ready to go. ah Caleb, what do you ah want to gush and go on about?
01:20:34
Speaker
I'm pretty easy, man. i've've I've got a civilian job now, so like i don't I don't do the hustle anymore. I don't have like five high schools that I teach and the fall and the winter and that this and that, you know what I mean? like I just teach RCC fall, RCC winter, and then I'm going back to Blue Stars, I think, this year, which is going to be sweet. Awesome. Doing a little bit more time with them. ah But I'm um'm really okay.
01:20:58
Speaker
ah When we were talking about like going to a new group and taking over and like you know making sure that you're putting in your voice kind of thing, like I think I'm finally, at RCC now, I think I'm finally moving into that place where I'm finally getting vets that are coming back with the right motivation wanting to do stuff. I'm finally starting to get like like the the people to to buy into what I want to do and the way I want to operate as a base tech. and like I've got like staff with me that like are now backing me up on that kind of stuff. and it's like I finally feel like I'm moving into a place where I get to contribute. and I feel super honored about that at RCC. If not about me, it's about RCC always. You know what I mean? so like If I can get back and sprinkle a little bit of that like magic that I got, dude, i
01:21:42
Speaker
um'm looking I'm gushing and going on about that because um that's all I got and I'm really looking forward to it. Awesome. I know exactly what you mean. I feel the same way. It's like very, very fortunate to get to ah teach at a group like United or RCC, Mason, Broken City. like these are all it's ah It's a joy to be in front of them and for them to actually listen back. but you know For them to be invested in it and really want to be theirs is awesome.
01:22:08
Speaker
so Super cool. I'm excited to see what you guys get up to this winter. And then Matt, saving the ah the grand one for last year. Thank you for coming on our show and thank you for creating the base camp as well. yeah It's such an awesome idea, such a good thing for the Baystrom community. But what do you ah what do you want to gush and go on about?
01:22:28
Speaker
I've got a few, so I'm sorry. um We talked about like who's writing the licks anymore. like Why are there no base licks? Marching Vlogs was at SoCal Base Camp to capture some stuff. There's this lick Gonzaco from Adrian Gonzalez and Mako Williams that you have to see. This is the nastiest duet I've ever seen. No offense to Steven and WDC of seniors. It's real cool. But this is the nastiest thing I've ever seen in my life, maybe. it's No, dude, this is great news.
01:22:57
Speaker
Me and the DC used to talk and we were like, someone will one day make a lick that's harder and better and cleaner. And we were just like, how long? Who? When? Yeah, I would plan. That's when we come out of that.
01:23:10
Speaker
you they are them Yeah, no that sounds awesome. look for When Marching Vlogs drops this video, you have to watch it. I have the sheets if you want to check it out. It's in the SoCal Base Camp like Google Drive. It's called Gonzaco. Check it out. It's disgusting. Okay, ah next thing I'm excited about is Broken City, year two for me, ah getting more comfortable, kind of like Getting to know the staff, having vets and stuff is going to be super cool. So um that's always just a blast. I never marched like a Mike Jackson line when I was marching. So it's been different. And you know like like we've talked about your first year, you're just kind of like dipping your toes. Don't want to rock the boat too much. But yeah right um going into year two, I'm super excited to see what we can do. Going to have some new faces. um Had five age outs of the six.
01:24:00
Speaker
last year. or So I'm gonna have a lot of new people and just excited
Scholarships and Future Expansion of Base Camp
01:24:05
Speaker
to see that. That's coming up this weekend, same weekend as RCC Impulse this coming Saturday. What is that, but the Something? 14th.
01:24:15
Speaker
um So super excited about that. And then just wanted to shout out um people at Basecamp one more time. um One of the coolest things about it was once it started happening, I had friends that aren't in the activity anymore reach out to me saying that they wanted to ah be able to participate in some way, like how can I help? And we ended up taking in over $500 in just donations, ah which allowed us to give scholarships to
01:24:46
Speaker
10 or 11 students ah completely free. All they had to do was send a DM and say, like I would like a scholarship, please. I didn't make anyone write an essay or like jump through any hoops. All they had to do was like DM me and say, like I would like a free Basecamp ticket, please. And they still had to like be there on ticket drop day and you know get registered. But we had a promo code for scholarships. So that just meant the world to me to like open it up. Marching is so expensive. And auditions are this next weekend, like literally seven days after base camp. So I didn't want anyone to say, like I want to go, but money's an issue because I've been a broke 19-year-old, we all have, you know and it just meant the world to me to be able to open base camp.
01:25:31
Speaker
you know a little outside of financial barriers. And I think the more we can do that, the better it is for the community in total. you know The more diverse people, the more different backgrounds we have, the better it's going to be, the cooler it's going to be, the more fun people we're going to have. So that was just like so special to me. And then I i just have to...
01:25:55
Speaker
I have to just say thank you to everyone involved with Basecamp. My wife is amazing, supported me through all that, um all the techs, all the people. We had friends that just stopped by and would say, like what do you need? Do you want me to go buy a case of water that weren't even participating? So just like that stuff was so special. The performers, ah Adrian, um um Mako doing their duet, fourth block music for coming out. They were amazing. That was one of the coolest live performances I've seen with bass drums. And um who else? The RCC 2024 bass line did a performance. We're trying to make like a bass basic, a basic video. If we can get more and more like basic performances at base camp and just judge it like a slam dunk competition every year, like
01:26:45
Speaker
That's that's the future. It's just like having a lot of fun. um Someone else before. Oh, like the POW baseline was there and they just were like, oh, yeah, we could play our solo. The gold baseline was there and they're like, oh, can we like play a show chunk? So like that stuff was so cool to me, just like students saying like, hey, can you show off a little bit? And the crowd just like went nuts because it's not like WGI right didn't hit the hand to hand. Like everyone just gave it up so hard. for everyone's tries. like Everything was so cool. so ah really like positive i I want to keep saying like a once-in-a-lifetime thing. like Maybe we'll keep doing it. I hope we can keep doing it, but really like a lifetime capstone achievement for me. I just feel like so grateful. This whole week, I've been like recovering and thanking people and just like,
01:27:37
Speaker
so, so special to me that the amount of support I got. And then like from, yeah, Bass, from Benz, from Marching Vlogs, from Fourth Block, just like everyone I talked to, from Vic Firth, Vader. I had a friend just like send me a bunch of stuff that was in his garage to give out So like you know the support I got from everyone was just amazing. So I cannot gush enough. I could go on for another 30 minutes about you know all the people that helped, but i I run out of names. So I cannot gush enough about those people.
01:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, I dude, it's everyone support you so much because it's such a good idea. um And because it's like immediately the second I saw it, I was like, oh, that's awesome. This is a brilliant idea that, you know, I would love to see continue to happen. You know, I'm sure it was a massive undertaking. um Don't know. You got that right. ah But whatever you know whatever it takes, I think it's a cool thing to put out there in the world. We'll have to talk off air sometime. I'd love to try to do something like that on the East Coast. Yes, Steve. Yes, Steve. we've got our We've got our own problems to figure out. yeah and we have already We are already cooking for the future, so stay tuned.
01:28:56
Speaker
you know Check out the Discord, check out the Instagram. There's more to come. ah This is not the end. And it's not even next year. We're already cooking on this next idea, next event. So um stay tuned on Basecamp. Sweet. Well, I will stay tuned. I'll also distribute. I'll do keep preaching the good word of the SoCal Basecamp. But um thank you all for coming on. ah Thank you, Woody. Thank you to D.C. D.C., where could our listeners follow you?
01:29:24
Speaker
Follow me at underscore downbeats underscore. Awesome. Woody, do you have a social media you would want to shout out? Yes, I do. Lichtonkicks.com. Awesome.
01:29:39
Speaker
For all those who are my young writers out there. It's a website that our young writers who they want to sell this stuff, but they Never get around to it or whatever. It's almost like a ah clearinghouse for you to be able to to sell your stuff It's coming slow, but it's coming along Awesome. No, that's cool too. That's a cool thing to keep on the grind with because it sounds like a cool service Did you ah let us? What do you say?
01:30:08
Speaker
It's not just like you have to be a big name. It's anybody because people write, people write great music. Yeah. Awesome. Um, can you remind us again where they could, uh, what the website addresses? Yeah. www.lixandkicks.com. Awesome. Lixandkicks.com. Check them out. Uh, Caleb, where could they find you or, or perhaps the lines you teach, whatever you want to,
01:30:36
Speaker
I mean, the only, the only place you're going to find me is on Instagram. Like I'm on Facebook, but I don't use that. I haven't checked in it. And my, my Instagram is Caleb gas. So, so find me on there. Caleb gas. And then last but not least, Matt, where could they find you and the SoCal base camp?
01:30:52
Speaker
ah at SoCal base camp on Instagram. I am not on Facebook because that's not where the people I'm trying to reach are. And then my personal is at surfing drums. You're going to be super disappointed if you try and follow me because I post like once a year on there. but ah awesome go based I'll be reposting videos and I love like free packets. You might have noticed every time someone drops their like free packet for auditions, I'll repost that so at SoCalBaseCamp.
01:31:25
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, definitely go give everyone a follow. ah You could follow me. I don't really consider it following me, but kind of follow me at yeah underscore base on Instagram. um I will, I mostly just try to be the center. I just try to share everyone's stuff and just, it's a big, big page with lots of people. It's a blast. Go check it out. um Yeah, thanks.
01:31:50
Speaker
So yeah but one other thing here, don't forget we've got our YouTube channel now. It's got ah many of our interviews coming out ah in full video editions. You can go subscribe, that way you don't miss those interviews. And before you close out of your podcast listening app, go subscribe, write us a review. ah Maybe write a review and say that you love hearing ah drum talk and bass drums especially, and that you want more drum conversations on the show.
01:32:16
Speaker
I would love nothing more than for you to review the show and say that. So share it with a friend, review us, follow us on social media at onawaterbreak, and we will see you at the next rehearsal on a water break. Go practice!
01:32:38
Speaker
intro and outro music was produced by Josh Lida. To learn more, visit ridamusic.com. And until next time, thanks for tuning in.