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Thiago Motta, The Players Or Injuries? What Is To Blame For Juventus Goal Woes? (Ep. 475)
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After their 5th goalless draw in all competitions, this time against Aston Villa in the Champions League, Nima Tavallaey and Carlo Garganese debate, discuss and analyze who or what is to blame for Juventus goal scoring woes.
This is a clip from the weekly Thursday episode of the Italian Football Podcast.
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Transcript
Juventus' Predictable Game Outcomes
00:00:04
Speaker
ah augustine did they' start with you ed says the the wednesday evening game at villa park and so the game finishes niil ni again which is probably not not that surprising and it says sparse becoming the most predictable result with Juventus this season. It was a bit quite similar really to the Milan match at the weekend. More quality in this video game than the Milan match where there was no quality at all, Welcome to the Italian football podcast. but still a game of very, few chances, very barely anything really. One big chance each in the game, Conse Sal's header off a corner which was miraculously saved by Emi Martinez behind the line and then a great chance from McGinn which Loca Teddy cleared off the line but apart from that nothing can till
00:00:51
Speaker
the last moment of the game, the last action of the game where ah Morgan Rogers had a goal disallowed for a foul by Diego Carlos on Diego Gordio. But apart from that, you know not much, nothing really to talk about in terms of the actual
Impact of Injuries on Juventus
00:01:08
Speaker
action. action So what there is to talk about, um I think a few things from Juventus' point of view that I wanted to kind of dig deep into. Now, first of all, I think if we're looking at this purely from a pragmatic point of view of, you know, getting Juventus through to the next round, given the circumstances, and and I think as Marta said it in the game, I think it's, a you know, based just on this game, it's a good result. I mean, you know, Juventus, the number of players they've got out is is insane. um They only could only name four outfield players.
00:01:39
Speaker
on the bench in this game. Eight players out in total. They lost another player through injury during the game as well, Savona. So it's becoming ridiculous now. Something needs to be looked into this NIMA about the the number of injuries that Juventus are getting because this isn't just something that's happened this season. This is something that's been going on for a few years now. I mean, remember with Allegri when they were completely decimated.
00:02:01
Speaker
um As well ah was it last season with a season before but this has been going on for a while So I don't think it's related to the manager or or anything in particular that this is something This is a club problem for sure. It is a it's a J medical problem. It's ah how they prepare The players problem is it the pitch they need to look at everything because it's getting see it's really silly I mean 14 out players going into this game I, it's like, it's like when you're 15, 15. Um, when two of them, but two of them are next-gen players. Yeah. Well, know congrats. I mean, it's, it's just, uh, it's like when you play football manager and like, you've got so many injuries and like, you you just like, what, what, what the, some of those are a virus in the game. Like what, this isn't normal. This isn't realistic, but it's, that that's how it felt like. I mean, 14, 15 outfield players, everyone else.
00:02:52
Speaker
injured. um i mean I'd like to talk about this from two
Young Squad and Defensive Strength
00:02:56
Speaker
angles. The first, of course, is is the I want to talk about the positives of this and you can't go past one positive ah that really stands out or two positives that for me stand out and the first one of course being that Juventus starting lineup in the champion yesterday against Aston Villa was the youngest starting 11 fielded by any its Serie A team ever in in the Champions League 24 years and 142 days on average
00:03:32
Speaker
um that's that That suggests that there is actually, you know this is this is you know what we've said, this is year zero, it's a new project, they're really rebuilding and they're doing it with young players. That's very positive for you. And they're doing it with young players who also you know get results. i mean They didn't win, but they didn't lose and that's important at this level.
00:03:52
Speaker
And the second positive thing ah is 11 clean sheets in all competitions, which together with Inter and Bayern Munich makes Juver the side in the top five leagues that have conceded or they have had the most clean sheets. All competitions, that is, right? Yeah, all competitions, yeah.
00:04:13
Speaker
That's very positive. 11 clean sheets in 18 games in all comps, together with Bayern Munich getting the most clean sheets. um that's That's very, very good. And they're back to being solid as well, like after that like that shaky period, you know, with the 4-4 and the Palmer game and and these games, they've now had three clean sheets in a row and one goal conceded in the last five. So they do have they have sorted out that they have sorted out the again, despite being, you know,
00:04:39
Speaker
having virtually no options in defense, having to basically play the same players every single day. Even Danilo came on and did quite well actually in this game at right back. yeah actually He actually played quite well when he when he came on. so Yeah, anden defense is good. that They were very compact, very solid. They were compact, they were solid. They found their identity again. Avogati and Kalulu together were a really good.
00:04:58
Speaker
um no They found their defensive structure again. And and again, overall, over these 18 games, 11 clean sheets, that's very good. Again, best together with Bayern and Inter in all top five leagues of all the clubs and all the top five leagues across all comps this season. That's very, very good.
Tactical Struggles in Attack
00:05:18
Speaker
But the negative.
00:05:20
Speaker
I'm sorry, you can't blame you can blame and there's you know explanations, but Yaventas do not, in these 18 games, bar in Cormor and like they don't create enough. It's just not good enough.
00:05:35
Speaker
Um, and against Villa. Okay. Debo Martinez makes one of the saves of the season. I mean, 95% of the ball is behind the line. You know, that's, that's a crazy say. Right. But they don't create enough. They don't need that's their ready charts of the game. And it's from a quarter. So, you know, if you, we you, you can, we can talk, we have to talk about this now. He has to.
00:05:59
Speaker
you know, Tiago Mota has to improve. But then again, he say that. And then I'm, but then I also was talking to one of our patrons is also Juventus fan. um He was saying it's so weird because on the one hand,
00:06:15
Speaker
you the way they build and it looks okay it actually looks pretty good in the build up phase but as soon as they reach the final third it's like it all just dies and it's and and and it's not just that they don't have the players up there it's like They know how to get to the opposition's box, but there the it's like they haven't received, they haven't like downloaded the the final three pages of the PDF of Tiago Mota's manual. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I don't know, the connection went to something. It's weird. They don't know what the hell they're doing. It just becomes, you know, prayers.
00:06:54
Speaker
Um, and, and that's, that's not, that's a worrying, that's a really, really worrying sign for them. And it's not just this game against Villa. It's not just the, you know, the, the, the decimated squad. It's the season. That's how it's been. And that's just not good enough. Um, and I, you know, Tiago Motta has to start taking some blame for this because you can't. Again, no one's expecting him to win the Champions League or no one's demanding a scoretto from him. and We know that it's going to take two or three windows for this to be addressed. And of course, even longer, perhaps now with all two ACLs in the in defense, but it's still not good enough. There's not enough goals coming from midfield. There's not enough goals coming from anywhere. And even if you sell Vlaovic and bring in a new striker,
00:07:41
Speaker
but midfield isn't ah some isn't offering enough threat. um i think it's That's a structural issue and that's something that Thiago Motta has to address. yeah no i think yeah i mean This is something that I spoke about even last season. you know I've said that this is something that this is the weakness in Thiago Motta's game. I was even saying it last season. um so you know This doesn't come as a surprise. Maybe it's ah it's a surprise just how kind of impotent Juventus have looked in attack um this season.
00:08:12
Speaker
ah you know they they motter needs to find out i mean motta is You know, I've said it so many times, so I'm repeating myself, but, you know, Juventus, when they're in possession of the ball, they do have fantastic patterns of play. They can break out through the press. um As they showed against Villa, you know, they can make it up the pitch. They can make it through the midfield. They can make it up into the final third. Once it gets into the final third, they they they're they're just not, they're just completely sterile once they get into the final third. And part of that is down to the fact that they don't push enough men forward.
00:08:45
Speaker
and because Motta is so obsessed with not leaving his team ah open for a transition or a counter attack.
Squad Rotation and Fatigue Issues
00:08:51
Speaker
So they're not putting enough men in the box. I mean, if you look at the heat maps of the Juventus players, I mean, there's there's that there's not enough players in the central attacking areas, um but getting into the box, basically. um Like Conseil and Yield is, the wingers, which is another facet of Motta's games. they're They're so out wide, very kind of Barcelona,
00:09:14
Speaker
kind of Barcelona school of Barcelona with the wingers so they have to basically hug the touch line and stretch the pitch as much as as much as possible which is fine but you also then need to have that threat in the in the in the middle and there is no threat ah in the middle and so I think that Moza needs to look at away maybe it's a case of he needs to get plays more into central areas he also needs to maybe take the the shackles off a little bit and take a few more risks you know if it might maybe leaves you a little bit open on a transition then so be it you have to take calculated risks sometimes in football as in life really have to gamble sometimes if you don't then you know i think maybe he's overdoing that um so i do think that motto motto needs to look at that there's no sure i do think though there are other reasons obviously the number of injuries we can't ignore that i mean you know eight injuries
00:10:07
Speaker
throughout the team you know against Milan they had to play Weston McKenney up front who's a midfielder against against Aston Miller they had to play Timothy Weyer who's not a striker you know at best he's an outside forward at best if not something a little bit deeper a deeper wide midfielder you know he's not a striker he's not a senseor central number nine striker so you know you're going into games with these players and you've really got nothing ah And you've got no ah No one in the center. I haven't said that though, you know, which they struggled with Vlovich as well But we know that the issues with Vlovich they predate motto, you know, is he good enough? Can he help the ball up well enough? So I think there is a personally personnel issue with the strikers um There's also there's also an issue of options, you know Yield is and constantly sell basically having to play every single game at the moment Which is I thought concept I was really good. It was the only threat actually against Villa but so
00:11:00
Speaker
you know, they've got no options other than yielders and console sales to play right and left. And that means that, you know, they're they're tired. There's no there's no depth. I mean, they've got no one to bring on in attack to change the game. And if you play the same place gaming two games a week, eventually they're going to tire as well. So I think there's that as well. um And and then, you know,
00:11:22
Speaker
um Listen, the floor thats up it all adds up. Yeah, but the reason why Konsai Sal is the only threat is because he's the only one who can do something on his own. And that, to me, is that's what we've gone from lauan inshallah to Konsai Salwa inshallah. That's what it is. And I expect more from from Mota.
00:11:43
Speaker
and And especially after the market he's had, it's simply not good enough after 18 matches. It's just not good enough to create this little, to basically be, all right, I'll create a ah ah defensive structure, then you guys, I'll bring you to the final just i outside the box, then I've got no ideas, go at it. but That's just not good enough. That is simply not good enough. And he has to do better. And he has to be able to to to create something, some sort of identity when you get to the opposition's box, because this Juventus side have nothing when they get to the opposition's box. You know, you can say Vlawic, Gunico Gonzalez, all these players, but even when they were there, they created not not much more than this. So this is a Mota problem and he needs to improve on that. And and and it has something has to happen because this is, you know, it's it's beyond dreary and
00:12:34
Speaker
it's it's it's just he's not getting a were he He's not getting enough and we're not seeing enough of certain players in going offensively as well. like Yield is, we've not had enough. I know he's 19 years old and and you know you get at that age, you get inconsistency. and he is Like I said, as well he's being overplayed.
00:12:53
Speaker
ah But we're not we're not seeing enough room from you know, it's how many goals as he scored this season He had the inter game, but apart from not even that's he's not scoring. He's not creating enough yield is we're not getting off him coop miners We need to see more he was he was the big sign in 60 million He hasn't scored a goal for you fences and he's been playing as the kind of the attacking midfield the attacking midfield role Yeah, the the kind of the one four two. Well, there's several aspects He's not scoring enough either. So we're not getting enough from him. Again, it's not, I'm not just picking on the players. Again, this is Mota as well, but I'm saying we're not, he's not, we're not seeing enough from these players. We expected a lot more. We expected, you know, at least five goals, five or six goals from yield is now we' expected a few goals at least from, from, from Koopman. He's got zero for a 60 million player. I mean, you know, that's an issue as well. I think there's, of course it's an issue and and I'm going to get to Koopman is cause I got some notes on him as well. Um, but
00:13:45
Speaker
Look, it's, again, when when you get to the just outside the box and it dies, it flatlines. Juventus' creativity and attacking identity flatlines as soon as they get to the opposition's box. And it's not just a Villa game. It's 18 games of this. That's on Mota. It's as simple
Koopmeiners and System Concerns
00:14:05
Speaker
as that. And he has to improve that. Now, of course, when you buy as many new players as you do, as they have this summer, it's going to take time for them to come together.
00:14:15
Speaker
Luis has been an unmitigated disaster. um You know, there's no doubt about that. And corp miners, which leads me nicely to the to to that, I'm not saying this is the case, but I am beginning to entertain the idea that we have another case of Atalanta syndrome.
00:14:37
Speaker
This is a player who, again, works fantastically in Atalanta and Gasperini's system, but when he tries to be used in another system, he Christantes.
00:14:50
Speaker
very overly exaggeratedly put. I'm not saying I'm there yet, but I'm meant starting to entertain the idea that this is another case of Atalanta syndrome. Player looks fantastic in the system, take him out of it somewhere else, he flat he just ah can't deliver. and because he's there's not It's not just the goals that he hasn't scored, it's not looking good. He's not offering anything really in the final third.
00:15:13
Speaker
and Juntoli, listen, if you buy that many players and two of your biggest signings, Luis and Koopmeiners, after 18 matches, Luis has been an unmitigated disaster. Koopmeiners been alright, okay, but not even good.
00:15:30
Speaker
there There are questions that need to be asked about you how you how you've constructed this team He put minus has been it's been unacceptable his performances in the last two games against Milan, especially he was horrendous in this game against Villa as well Not not good enough, especially the first half you barely even touch the ball um in the in the first something He had like eight touches or nine touches in the first half. He's not getting on the ball There are some some some special circumstances, you know if you're playing as an attacking midfielder and you have nothing in front of you it's virtually impossible for you to to have any kind of positive impact on the game. You can't do anything. So I do think that there's there's that that's not helping him. I do also personally think he's better in a deeper role anyway. ah But you know, it's not enough. We're not seeing enough from Kukman. He's supposed to raise the level of the team. And so far, he hasn't, he hasn't, you know, lifted the level
00:16:25
Speaker
of the of the team as well. But I do think that there are special circumstances with Coop Miners as there is with Mota. The weaknesses with Mota are there. They're
Midfield's Lack of Goal Contributions
00:16:33
Speaker
clear. I've been talking about them for a year. ah But there are other circumstances that are making it far, far more difficult for Mota's game ah to to to come through. And I would say the same with Coop Miners. I mean, if we're looking at talking about the lack of goals, we can't ignore also the fact that if you look through the, certainly if you look at the midfield and any good team,
00:16:54
Speaker
provides goals from the midfield. I think Inter are a great example of that. you know There's so many goals in Inter's midfield. Everybody can contribute goals in that Inter midfield, even from the bench players. And that is a huge issue. If you look at Juventus' midfield, there's no goals in there. It's apart from Cook miners, who hasn't scored any, there's no goals. I mean, Taram will score one or two goals a season. Locatelli, one or two goals a season. ah Douglas and Louise, when you take away penalties, he hasn't he's not someone that's got goals in his game.
00:17:23
Speaker
Fagioli's got no goals in this game. um you know ah yeah butke The problem isn't just that, but if you look at Inter, I'm sorry, but that's actually a really good example. If you look at how Simone Inzagi plays, from the back all the way to the goal line of the opposition, there is a clear identity. It's very versatile, they can play in very many ways, and that's why even technically limited players like Davide Fratesi get so many goals. Yes, he's he's got that kind of natural intelligence high,
00:18:12
Speaker
You put these Juventus midfielders into the inter-team apart from Cook miners and maybe McKinney. Those other midfielders are not going to score many goals. They're not. They haven't got goals. They can't shoot. They don't know how to get into the positions to get in because that's just not their natural game.