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040: Dr Amantha Imber on aligning your values and time
696 Plays4 years ago
In this episode we interview productivity and innovation expert, Dr Amantha Imber, about how she manages her life admin. She gives us her top hacks on scheduling, to-do lists and outsourcing
This episode is the first in a series of interviews where we will be interviewing others to see how they tackle their life admin.
About Dr Amantha Imber
Dr Amantha Imber is an organisational psychologist and founder of behavioural science consultancy Inventium. where she helps companies such as Google, Apple, Disney, LEGO, Atlassian, Commonwealth Bank and many others innovate more successfully and reinvent the way they approach their work.
In 2019, Amantha was named as one of the Australian Financial Review’s 100 Women of Influence. Amantha is also the host of the number one ranking business podcast How I Work, and new podcast How To Date where she interviews some of the world’s leading innovators about their habits, rituals and strategies for structuring their day.
Amantha’s thoughts have appeared in Harvard Business Review, Forbes, Entrepreneur and Fast Company and she is the author of two best-selling books: “The Creativity Formula” and “The Innovation Formula”.
What we talk about
During the interview we chat with Amantha about:
- how she plans her time to reflect her values
- outsourcing cutting her weekly vegetables using Airtasker so she can spend her time doing things that are more fulfilling
- the importance of planning her social life to make sure she is getting the nourishing time that close friends provide
- using time boxing (scheduling) for exercise and any other priority things important in her life
- how she delegates things to others who are better qualified for areas such as financial matters
- her love of to-do lists and how she uses Siri and Apple Reminders
- how to get more out of your software by taking the time to earning shortcuts and other features
- teaching her daughter how to batch prepare her own school snacks
- how she will teach her daughter the importance of using her time to live her life in line with what is important to her
- how she enjoys online shopping from independent grocers
- outsourcing tasks she doesn’t enjoy like cleaning.
RESOURCES
Online grocery shopping in Melbourne - Your Grocer
Episode 22 - Outsourcing personal and household tasks
How to Date - Podcast
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Transcript
Kroger's Freshness Initiative
00:00:00
Speaker
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Introduction to Life Admin Life Hacks Podcast
00:00:30
Speaker
This is Life Admin Life Hacks, a podcast that gives you techniques, tips and tools to tackle your life admin more efficiently, to save your time, your money and improve your household harmony. I'm Diana Roberts, an operations manager who embraced scheduling and when file effects was a major investment.
00:00:49
Speaker
I'm Mia Northrop, a researcher and writer. He still has a monogrammed file of facts somewhere. We're so alike.
Writing a Life Admin Life Hacks Book
00:00:57
Speaker
In this episode, we'll interview productivity and innovation expert Dr. Amanda Imba. Hello and welcome to Life Admin Life Hacks. As we revealed on a recent podcast, Dinah and I are writing a Life Admin Life Hacks book for HarperCollins.
00:01:11
Speaker
We've shared some sample chapters with test readers for feedback. And one of the things that has really resonated with them is the glimpse we give into how Diana and I personally approach life admin in our households. It really does satisfy our curiosity to get a sneak peek into how others live their lives. And so we decided to bring that element into the podcast. But
New Interview Segment
00:01:31
Speaker
instead of focusing on how Diana and I do things, which you've heard plenty of over the years, we've decided to interview other women and men from business, media,
00:01:40
Speaker
creative industries and sport to see how they tackle life admin. And this is the first in our how they do it episodes. In this episode, we talked to Dr. Amanda Imba who reveals how you should think about living in line with your values, prioritizing your time accordingly and outsourcing tasks that you hate.
Prioritizing Tasks and Outsourcing
00:02:00
Speaker
If you hate meal prep, this app is for you. Dr. Amanda Imba is an organizational psychologist and founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium.
00:02:09
Speaker
where she helps companies such as Google, Apple, Disney, Lego, Atlassian, the Commonwealth Bank and many others innovate more successfully and reinvent the way they approach their work. In 2019, Amanda was named as one of the Australian Financial Review's 100 Women of Influence. Amanda is also the host of the number one ranking business podcast, How I Work, where she interviews some of the world's leading innovators about their habits, rituals and strategies for structuring their day.
00:02:35
Speaker
She's also the host of the new podcast, How to Date. Amanda's thoughts have appeared in Harvard Business Review, Forbes, Entrepreneur and Fast Company. And she's the author of two bestselling books, Creativity Formula and the Innovation Formula. Amanda, thanks so much for coming on the show today. It's so great to reconnect with you in a different way from when we previously connected through work. I know. I'm excited to be here.
00:02:59
Speaker
We're such big fans of your podcast, How I Work, and we've recommended a number of episodes to our listeners, particularly early on in our podcast when we discussed life admin foundations, like to-do lists. And also some of your guests actually do talk about their life admin. In particular, your interview with Carolyn Creswell was one that really resonated to us. So we're really incredibly curious about whether your life admin is as well thought out as your work life.
00:03:28
Speaker
Yes, I think it is. It's definitely changed during COVID and during lockdown, so I'm based in Melbourne. Yeah, but I do think a lot about it. I think probably the thing that I think most about is how I use my time and for the things that I don't enjoy doing, it generally makes sense to pay someone else to
Time Management Techniques
00:03:50
Speaker
do that.
00:03:50
Speaker
Even though other people might go, Oh, really? You pay someone to do that. So just to give you an example to kind of launch right in, which is something that I don't do anymore because when COVID hit, I had to stop doing this is.
00:04:05
Speaker
And this is something I started two years ago, perhaps, where a weekend ritual that I would have with my daughter, who's currently six and a half at the time of recording, is that every Saturday morning, we would go to the markets, to Peran Market or South Melbourne Market, and do a weekly grocery shop and get a big box full of fruit and vegetables. And then
00:04:32
Speaker
One of the things that I'm a big believer in is that you will eat more fruit and vegetables if they are all pre-prepared, washed, cut and in Tupperware ready to be taken out of the fridge. And I ate a ridiculous amount of vegetables, like way over the
00:04:49
Speaker
recommended serving. Yeah, I reckon I'd eat seven or eight serves of veg a day. And I think it's because I would spend hours on the weekend basically washing and cutting and preparing. Yeah, prepping all the vegetables for the week. And I really hated doing this task. And this is back when I was married. My then husband said to me, like, why don't you just pay someone to cut the vegetables? And I said, really? Like, where am I going to find that?
00:05:18
Speaker
And I said, just put it out on Air Tasker. And I thought, OK, I'll give that a go. And so I found someone who was a university student that had a part time job in hospitality doing food prep, I think. And so she would come over every Sunday morning for two hours and I would pay her 50 dollars to do all of the food prep for the week. I love that.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah, because you're right. The research shows that if you remove all the obstacles to, you know, towards healthy eating or exercise, if it's really convenient and you set up your environment so it's just easy to get to the healthy stuff, then you will eat more healthy stuff. Yeah. Recognize that.
00:06:04
Speaker
Yeah. And you know what, like the healthy eating thing, I mean, it's so habitual, I don't even think about it, but it's more that I was spending two hours every Sunday when, like I could have been playing with Frankie or doing something else. Frankie's my daughter. And instead I was at the kitchen bench doing something I really didn't like. And I thought it is worth $50 to win back two hours a week so that I can do something more
00:06:31
Speaker
fulfilling with that time. Whereas other people might go, $50, that's a lot of money. But for me, it's not because it's worth it to get those hours back in my day where I can do something more meaningful. Yeah. And it reflects exactly your values and what you value in how you spend your time. And I think that's one of the reasons we set up this podcast and went on this quest, because we're thinking these activities just take up too much of our time, too much of our headspace.
00:06:58
Speaker
And we wanted to free up time for things that were more valuable and enriching or nourishing or...
00:07:03
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more positive than cutting off vegetables or paying bills or all the other stuff that sort of the homework of normal life. So what else comes to mind for you when you think of life admin? Yeah, look, when I think of life admin, it's look, it does cross over from my work life because I'm I'm pretty organized in my work life and I'm really conscious of how I use my time.
00:07:28
Speaker
Definitely with my social life and seeing friends and family, I probably am at the extreme end in terms of planning. And again, I try to I try as much as possible to live a life that reflects my values and
00:07:45
Speaker
plan my time accordingly. So friends and my friendships are hugely valuable. They're such a big priority for me, and particularly in life, post marriage, I mean, your friends become even more important. And so I will plan my weeks in terms of my social life. I'm not someone that
00:08:05
Speaker
kind of gets to the weekend and thinks, oh, it'd be really nice to see some friends this weekend. I wonder who's available. That is not me. I will plan a week or two in advance to make sure that I'm getting enough, you know, that kind of nourishing time that close friends provide.
Planning Social Life
00:08:25
Speaker
So that's probably an example where I tend to be, I don't know, some would say over-organized, but me, it works well.
00:08:31
Speaker
You're preaching to the choir here, data on projects, data I operate the same way. Because the downtime is precious, and you want to make sure you're spending it with people that you really want to see, and you want to be doing things that you really want to do. We're not really in a season of life where you can be spontaneous. People are unavailable if you call up and go, you want to have brunch today? It's like, are you crazy? There are things to do.
00:08:59
Speaker
So yeah, that kind of planning and scheduling really does make a difference if there's certain people you want to see and certain activities that you want to be doing with them. Definitely. And look, another strategy that I use, which again, crosses over from my work life where I really, I think so much about productivity. I mean, that's the main area that I guess I specialize in, is the idea of time boxing.
Timeboxing Explained
00:09:23
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So time boxing is a strategy where
00:09:25
Speaker
You think about the big tasks or little tasks that you have to achieve. And rather than just having a to-do list where you tick things off, you actually essentially book meetings with yourself to work on those tasks. So timeboxing is something that I use for work or I will set meetings with myself in the calendar that might be write this article.
00:09:48
Speaker
between nine o'clock and 10 o'clock on Tuesday morning. And that's an example of timeboxing. So I would also use timeboxing for my personal life to a degree. So often I will timebox gym or fitness, for example. I don't do this religiously, but sometimes when I've got a busy week coming up, I will actually book appointments with myself around where I'm going to fit in
00:10:13
Speaker
gym time. So again, like, health is a big priority for me. Healthy eating is something that is very habitual, as is exercise. So I would do gym stuff at my home gym now thanks to COVID, which I'm actually loving home gym, and I don't think I will go back to a real gym five times a week, 45 minute sessions. And that time adds up, that's two to three hours a week that I need to find to make sure that I'm living my life so that it mirrors my values. And sometimes if the week is really busy,
00:10:43
Speaker
It can be hard to find that time. So I'll literally book appointments with myself in the diary. Like that might be, you know, from six to seven a.m. or something like that. But just to make sure that I'm getting that done and prioritizing that in the way that I'm running my week. Great. So what about other aspects of life admin, perhaps the more financial or utilities or those types of things? Do you also schedule those in?
Delegating Financial Decisions
00:11:05
Speaker
I outsource a lot. So I've got a brilliant financial advisor that makes like the bigger decisions for me so that I don't have to be going, Oh, do I need this insurance? Where should I get that from? So I, you know, I'm a big believer in delegating to people that can do things better than you can.
00:11:25
Speaker
In terms of paying bills, it's funny, I haven't really thought to delegate paying bills, although having said that with bills that are tax deductible, that will get paid by my accounts person at work. So in that sense, I guess there are some bills that can be tax deductible, you know, like that are to do with home office expenses, for example, that I don't pay, but the rest is pretty easy. I am a big fan of the CommBank.
00:11:52
Speaker
And that makes Bill Payne very straightforward. So I don't feel like it's something that takes up so much time in my life that I've then deliberately reflected and thought, hmm, how can I automate that or delegate that or batch that? It just hasn't come up because it doesn't take much time.
00:12:09
Speaker
Well, one of the life admin blockers for Mia and I, I guess the thing we still haven't really conquered is managing our digital photos. So I'd be super keen to know if you've got that nailed.
Digital Photo Challenges
00:12:20
Speaker
I so don't have that nailed. Please tell me if you find someone that has nailed that. I'm not.
00:12:33
Speaker
I'm just kind of like reading a book about it, a whole book on it. We are still looking for the easy solution. We'll keep you in touch. Good, good. Yeah, it's interesting what we're saying about, you know, some of these tasks. It's like you do have to dedicate a chunk of time. We talk about sort of two minute time killers, like paying bills, something might come in the mail, you open it, you just whack out your online banking app and take care of it there and then. Some of it we refer to as 10 minute time killers, where we think, OK, I've got a wedge of time between
00:13:01
Speaker
this thing and the next thing and there's a few tasks I could probably get off my list. You know, there's a lot of talk about the mental load and the number of tasks we carry around in our head or the planning we sort of do in our head. Is this something that you've come across? Did you come across that Emma cartoon about the mental load?
00:13:19
Speaker
I haven't, but I do think about mental load. And for me, the solution is really simple. It's to-do lists. It's like write everything down that comes into your head. Don't try to remember things. And I think this is where I'm an Apple user. I can't see myself changing operating systems anytime soon as I'm
00:13:39
Speaker
well into the Apple ecosystem. I'm training myself to get better and more reliant on Siri. And actually recently, so I use things as my to do list task manager. But I recently actually got this tip from a podcast guest on how I work recently is something I'm trying is actually
00:14:03
Speaker
using Apple Reminders, which has recently changed and upgraded a lot of features, which I'm liking a lot more. So I'm trying to get more reliant on using Apple Reminders for my personal to-do list, which is good because then it plays well with Siri, whereas things does not play well with Siri. And if something's in
Using Technology for Task Management
00:14:23
Speaker
my head, I try to get it out of my head as quickly as possible, and then the mental load is automatically a whole lot less.
00:14:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'm loving the reminders app functionality. So I do take advantage of some of the features where it will remind you of a task at a certain location, either when you're arriving or leaving a location or also when you're messaging someone. So you can associate a task with a person. So if I have to remind myself, you know, I talked to mum about Christmas planning and the next time I'm actually messaging mum on my phone,
00:14:56
Speaker
little reminder will come up and say don't forget to talk to your mum about Christmas planning. It's very powerful. That's so clever. And I think that with software, like because like software doesn't come with a manual that you read anymore, like things used to in the olden days, I feel like a lot of people don't get the most out of the software that they're using. So I'm a big proponent in actually
00:15:20
Speaker
learning a lot of the shortcuts and the kind of the lesser known tips with software. I don't always do this, but it is something that I keep in the back of my head. And I know when I invest that time, you know, I'll get it back tenfold because I'm getting so much more
00:15:36
Speaker
out of the software or out of the app. And I think like what you said there are great examples where I've literally just this week started using the reminders app and I'm listening to you going, okay, I need to actually sit down and optimize how I'm using the reminders because right now I'm just using it to get stuff out of my head and to get Siri to put stuff in the list. But I'm hearing you speak and I'm like, oh, I just need to learn how to use all those features. That's going to be awesome.
00:16:01
Speaker
And have you customized series voice? There are some lovely voices. I have not just going for the default. It's always a female voice giving you instructions and helping you. There's some lovely other voices out there. How do I do that? Oh, it's somewhere in settings. My series sounds like Paul Bettany, the English actor. It sounds like a butler. I love that. I'm going to do that after this recording.
00:16:30
Speaker
You talked about in both how I work and how to date that now you co-parent with your child and you obviously are managing some aspects of life administered with parenting across your households. How has this changed? What tools do you use to manage some of that?
00:16:46
Speaker
That's a good question because I've only got the one child. Life is not that complicated. I look at my closest girlfriend, Monique, who's my co-host on How to Date. She's got four kids aged between 8 and 12.
00:17:02
Speaker
like, it's crazy. Whereas I'm like, I've only got one, it doesn't even stress me out. So I was always the person that organized all the, the school and the life admin for Frankie. And I've just kind of continued in that role. So again, it doesn't feel like there's much
00:17:24
Speaker
to do. I haven't actually thought about good systems other than look, the only system that I did think about, which I don't use anymore now that Frankie is 50-50 between the two households, is that when I was married, one of the things that would become
00:17:41
Speaker
Frankie's chore is that we, after the vegetable cutter had been, one of Frankie's chores would be basically to batch pack her smart snacks for the whole week. So we have these, they're like these Tupperware bento boxes. I think they're certainly quite popular at Frankie's school. And I'd basically teach Frankie how to do the whole week in one go. So
00:18:08
Speaker
That like that saved a bit of time because we would be like a nice variety of fruit and veg and other things in her little bento box, smart snacks or recess, sorry, is the normal word for it. Like that was something that was helpful. And so I will still do that now for the half week that I do have Frankie, but
00:18:27
Speaker
Otherwise, I feel like there's just not that much with one child, to be honest. Maybe I'm just forgetting to do a bunch of things, but it's like it just doesn't cause me that much stress and it doesn't eat into my time that much.
00:18:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think that for me, that really started when the kids got extracurricular activities. And I think my kids, their social life is more active than mine these days. So getting a handle on that is something you've got to look forward to, Amanda. Excellent.
Teaching Wise Time Use
00:18:57
Speaker
So talking about Frankie, as she gets older, what do you think would be one of the most important life admin skills that you might teach her?
00:19:07
Speaker
And this is probably more of a mega thing and just gets back to using your hours in a way that aligns with your values. And I think I first became aware of this concept or more became conscious of this concept through Laura van der Kam when I had her on the podcast quite a while ago. And she talks about how in a week you've got 168 hours and people constantly complain, Oh, I'm so busy. I don't have enough time for that. I don't have time to.
00:19:34
Speaker
you know, say exercise or I don't have time to call my friends or I don't have time to, you know, insert whatever task people complain about not having time to do. But no, you've got 168 hours. And so I think the thing that I would teach to Frankie as she gets older is really thinking about how she spends her time and looking at is the way she's spending her time in line with the things that really matter to her.
00:20:01
Speaker
And so easy for people to clock up so many mindless hours scrolling through their phone or social media. Yeah, I think the average person spends four hours a day on their phone. Half of that time is
00:20:15
Speaker
looking at the top five social media apps like Facebook and Insta and so forth. And I just think, wow, that's a huge waste. And then the same people are saying, oh, I'm so busy. I don't have time to do this thing that is actually really important to me based on my values. But because I am getting sucked into the addictive nature of social media apps and other kinds of apps, I'm not prioritizing that. So I think that's a really big one. And I've been through
00:20:45
Speaker
like a time tracking process, as Laura Vanderkamp suggests, where
00:20:49
Speaker
you literally for a whole week, write down what you are doing in every 15 minute block of time, which is such an annoying process to do, but it sheds so much light on how you're using your time. And even from a work sense, people spend so much time in their inbox because it's designed to be addictive and you get a false sense of progress. And look, many people, and certainly when I started time tracking, I was shocked at how much time I was spending in my inbox.
00:21:19
Speaker
That's what I was going to ask you. What were your big surprises? What were the time sucks that you weren't really aware of?
00:21:24
Speaker
get email, email was the biggest one and going, Oh my goodness, I've spent, you know, like three hours a day doing email that is ridiculous. I like career wise, I don't want to be known for the person that hit inbox zero every day. That's not really that cool. So then you can kind of go, okay, well, I'm going to deliberately change my behavior so that it aligns more with my values and email.
00:21:51
Speaker
is not a value of life. So, Amanda, are there any other areas of life admin that actually energize you? You've talked a bit about the food prep and some of the things you've got nailed, but is there any other area that actually really gives you energy?
00:22:07
Speaker
Hmm. You see, I actually don't mind life admin because it makes me feel really organized and it gives me that progress hit.
Online Grocery Shopping Benefits
00:22:15
Speaker
Like for example, I use yourgrocer.com.au for all my grocery shopping. That was not something that I did pre-COVID. I'd always go to the markets, but now your grocer is a great way of buying from the same people and buying from independent stores and getting fresh produce.
00:22:35
Speaker
but without having to leave your house so that that suited well that worked well during lockdown and now it's become a habit so i so while that is life admin doing the grocery ordering and i would do that two or three times a week
00:22:51
Speaker
I actually enjoy the process because I'm getting that hit of progress. It's like, ah, that is something look, I could delegate that if I wanted or I could buy things in bigger batches. So I'm only doing that once a week. But I enjoy the process of going, what will I eat over the next few days? What will I cook? So and then I get a sense of progress of when I've completed that task. And I think because my work is not like that, my work is
00:23:19
Speaker
creating things, it's sitting in ambiguity, it's like most of my days are trying to spend that in deep work thinking through complex issues and creating stuff as a result. I'm actually really energized by short, sharp tasks that will give me that progress hit that genuinely are
00:23:38
Speaker
making progress in my life. I think probably if my job was a full-time administrator, I might not feel the same way, but I actually like the contrast that those life administration tasks give me because they're in contrast to my role at work. I think that's also signals, you know, a level of self-awareness about what tasks you actually enjoy doing. So, you know, the idea that
00:24:02
Speaker
you have a bit of flexibility and a certain amount of spontaneity about what you're eating in a certain week and you're happy to shop multiple times. Whereas other people, if they can think about food and what grocery shopping means to them and their menu means to them, be like, oh, I'm happy to do venue planning for a month and just eat whatever's on the menu. I don't want to think about it. It takes a bit of self-awareness to know that's going to be something that's positive for you rather than a drag.
00:24:29
Speaker
I was going to ask you what are your life admin pet peeves, but I have a feeling you might not have any.
00:24:34
Speaker
I'm just, I'm trying to think of digital photos, obviously.
Outsourcing Cleaning Tasks
00:24:40
Speaker
Yeah, digital photos, you know what, every now and then I will go, oh, digital photos. Definitely. I hate cleaning. Again, one of the things that I invest money in is getting a cleaner. And I did this when I was married, because I think that cleaning can be a source of conflict between partners. No one, like in most relationships, no one loves cleaning.
00:25:02
Speaker
It's very cheap marriage counselling, having a cleaner. Oh, it is, isn't it? That's such a good way of putting it. We had a cleaner come once a fortnight and get in the new home that I am in. That is something I invest in. But obviously, during lockdown, there was
00:25:17
Speaker
I don't know, 10 or 12 weeks or something. I don't know how many it was where we couldn't have cleaners. And so I had to remember how to clean a bathroom. God, I can't privilege. Goodness. But you know, look, and I think I am privileged. But also, even if I wasn't privileged, I would I would still apply the same
00:25:41
Speaker
principle to go, this is something that I really hate and there's so many other things that I would get so much more joy spending my non-work time doing that I think it is worth the hourly rate of a cleaner to avoid having to do that task. I'm very happy to do a superficial clean so that on a day-to-day basis, the house looks relatively tidy. But in terms of doing the big clean once a fortnight,
00:26:07
Speaker
I really didn't like doing that. And when I didn't have the cleaner, I became so aware and so grateful for the fact that I had made that decision to invest money in doing this thing that takes several hours every fortnight. And I think the first time I did do The Big Clean, there was a bit of a novelty factor and I had music playing, but the novelty quickly wears off.
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I actually have given my cleaner a pay rise because I just said to her, I appreciate you so much. Please never leave me again. We want more tips and hacks on how to outsource some of these personal and household tasks. You might want to check out episode 22 where we dive into some of the detail there.
00:26:53
Speaker
Our last question for you today is really, what's the one life admin life hack you wish someone had told you earlier in your life? Like, I mean, there's so many micro things that I use and probably more to do with work, given that, you know, we spend a third of our life doing work and probably more so when, when you love your work or when you're
00:27:18
Speaker
business owner as I am, so there's certainly a lot there, but I think I'd probably echo just some of the things that we've spoken about, like really thinking about how am I using the 168 hours that I've got in the week and am I using that in a way that aligns with my values and makes me feel good about the choices that I'm making.
00:27:40
Speaker
I just also think the general rule of get stuff out of your head and onto paper, whether that be digital paper or physical paper, as quickly as possible to reduce mental load is a really important life hack.
00:27:54
Speaker
brilliant advice, Amanda. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and ideas with us today. This has been a total pleasure. Where can our listeners find you if they want to hear more? They can search for how I work, wherever they listen to podcasts, for a podcast that's all about productivity, more so in the workplace.
00:28:13
Speaker
And they could also search for how to date wherever they listen to podcasts, if you are looking for tips on dating, and if you're not dating and want to live vicariously through myself and Monique experts that we interview, then you might enjoy that as well. And I can also be found at inventium.com.au, which is the behavioral science consultancy that I founded many years ago. Wonderful. Thank you so much. My pleasure.
00:28:42
Speaker
If you'd like to join us on our life admin journey, please head to our Facebook page, life admin life hacks to follow us and share your thoughts on what we're doing and feel free to post any comments or certainly post suggestions that we might be able to use. We hope to see you there. Thanks for listening. Show notes for this episode are available at life admin lifehacks.com. If you're a fan, please subscribe and share the love and tell a friend or review us in your podcasting app.