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You Should Listen to Divorce Lawyers I Shaved My Head by Jordaan Mason & The Horse Museum
41 Plays1 year ago
On this episode of You Should Listen to This: Bat makes Tanner listen to Divorce Lawyers I Shaved My Head by Jordaan Mason & The Horse Museum for the first time.
Bat will guide Tanner through this LGBTQ+ indie folk concept record filled with vivid imagery and quotable moments. We discuss each song and what makes this album so special to Bat, as well as millions of others. Let's hope Tanner likes it.
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Sorry about Tanner's mic in this one :( he was having some trouble.
Thank you so much for listening.
Intro and outro music by Jake Dotson
Recommended
Transcript
Opening Nerves and Jokes
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm just. I'm really nervous to start this episode because it's such a it's such an intense and important album that I'm worried I'm going to fuck it up. Well, it can all sound perfect in editing and AI and CGI. I just started that. I thought was my start. Yeah, I'm going to CGI it. It's all good. Oh, OK. Yeah, Tanner's going to CGI this so I don't miss anything.
00:00:30
Speaker
Yeah.
Podcast Introduction and Trigger Warning
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to the You Should Listen to this podcast. I'm that. I'm Tanner. This episode we are discussing, analyzing, admiring, hopefully, one of my most favoritest albums of all time, Jordan Mason and the Horse Museum's Divorce Lawyers. I shaved my head. Kind of a mouthful.
00:01:09
Speaker
It's Jordan Mason. Yeah, there's two ways. I've been saying Jordan Mason the whole time. Well, now you know. Jordan Mason. Before we get into the album, I would just like to preface with a trigger warning. In this episode, we'll be discussing some very heavy topics such as gender dysphoria, sex, and
00:01:35
Speaker
suicide so if that is not something that you are prepared to hear or if you are underage it's okay just go back and listen to the previous episodes or join us for the next one but I just wanted to to give you guys a heads up and you Tanner thank you I appreciate it yeah do you have anything that you want to add before we I'm excited that's all I want to add
00:02:04
Speaker
Okay.
Non-binary Identity Clarification
00:02:06
Speaker
I'm really excited, but like I said, I'm also nervous, but I'm going to give it my best go at it. You got this.
00:02:15
Speaker
I'm just gonna get this out of the way so that way we don't have any mess ups. Jordan Mason, that is how you say Jordan's name. They're non-binary and their pronouns are they them. So they prefer just like their name to be used rather than a specific pronoun. Obviously their pronouns are they them and there's gonna be times where we kind of
00:02:41
Speaker
have to use the pronouns, but preferably for Jordan. Jordan prefers to be just named by their name. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, I want to like introduce you to the album, but I also kind of like, do you like, are you curious about what the Horse Museum is like?
Intimidation and Representation in Queer Art
00:03:06
Speaker
Well, sure. I guess, you know, just some broad kind of things. So this album intimidates me or did intimidate me, you know, before listening to it for this episode, because I knew it was a heavy album. I knew it was. There's a lot to it. And I've heard a few songs from it. And I'm like, man, this is
00:03:30
Speaker
It's not easy listening. So I've been intimidated. I've been intimidated by it for a while. And I do feel a little strange talking about this album in a podcast, for me at least, because I am not a member of this community. And I feel like I don't have a right to give an opinion on this album because it's not for me.
00:03:58
Speaker
I am not part of this. And usually with albums like that, I try to change my viewpoint a little bit. With Olivia Rodrigo's new album, I just had to put myself in the mindset of a 19-year-old girl.
Audience Inclusion Debate
00:04:14
Speaker
OK, easy. These are experiences that I've seen for years and years. I've seen in media or around me. It's easy enough for me to see these things from that perspective.
00:04:28
Speaker
but the lack of queer art has led to me and many people not being as familiar with these ideas and themes and experiences. So I had a difficult time really immersing myself in this album because I felt it was ill-fitting for me.
00:04:46
Speaker
And this album very much so feels like it's truly someone else and does not belong to me in any way. I'm reading a very personal account of someone's love life. I feel like I'm eavesdropping. I'm not supposed to hear this. Okay. I love everything that you're saying and I want to listen to you go on forever.
00:05:08
Speaker
Okay, sorry, sorry. I have a couple things to say in response to that before I get into it. I love what you said about the album not being for you, but I completely disagree with that. I think it is like perfect for you in a way.
00:05:30
Speaker
And I don't think that it was written or I don't know if I should say constructed like put together. I don't think the album was built to exclude or I'm not saying that it was made specifically for you or made for specifically someone else. I think it was made for everyone in a way. It was made for the person writing it. It was made
00:05:56
Speaker
for the Horse Museum, it was just, it is an account for everyone. And I think, like you said, because there's a lack of amplified queer voices and their experiences, that makes this even more for you, for someone who is not trans, for someone who is straight, for somebody who is societally the norm, because, you know,
00:06:24
Speaker
to normalize it, not just for, you know, queer people and trans people and people in the community that this is kind of made for, you could say, it is for everyone, you know, everyone can, I'm not finding the words.
00:06:41
Speaker
I'm, I'm understanding you. I'm glad you are. I just want to, okay.
Jordan Mason's Artistic Exploration
00:06:45
Speaker
So this is, um, I'm relating to Jordan and that they describe themselves as being illiterate. Um, they credit themselves as being illiterate on, uh, one of their albums, maybe all of their albums. I'm not sure because I haven't seen the liner notes, but that is how I feel. And I really relate to that. I feel like I'm illiterate right now currently.
00:07:06
Speaker
but anyways i'll get into that okay let me let me open up to you the horse museum and of course the leader jordan mason i already kind of introduced jordan mason they are a
00:07:23
Speaker
I want to say completely, they're a storyteller. They studied film, so they're a filmmaker. They studied creative writing. They're a poet, songwriter, artist. So to me, just a complete storyteller. They use songwriting to express things, but they feel that sometimes language is not enough or has its limits. So that is the meaning of the word illiterate.
00:07:50
Speaker
this is like you keep talking about how this is an album for um for everyone and I and I and I hear you on that you know and it's it's a good experience for anyone to be made aware of these kinds of stories however I still don't feel I have a right to give an opinion on it I feel like I don't have a right to think or I can think critically about it but
00:08:17
Speaker
I guess my critical analysis is not necessary or wanted.
Album Inspiration and Themes
00:08:22
Speaker
And yeah. I appreciate that. I kind of agree in the sense of like if you look at Sufjan Stevens, Carrie and Lowell, I feel like I can't critique that because it is such a personal account of grief and life and love that how could I critique that?
00:08:44
Speaker
or criticize it rather in any way. I just want to ease your concern. So this is me easing your concern. Please just relax and it's okay. I'm much more nervous than you are. So I think some of my information that I have that I want to share with you
00:09:05
Speaker
It feels weird to just tell you. That's why I said, like, are you curious about Jordan Mason and the Horse Museum? Because when I first heard this album, I definitely was. I, you know, if you look at Spotify, there's Jordan Mason, Jordan Mason and the Horse Museum. Jordan Mason has other released music solo, other solo music. But as the Horse Museum
00:09:34
Speaker
This is their only album. It's kind of mysterious if you look at the page. Did you read the about section of Jordan Mason and the Horse Museum on the Spotify page? No, I avoided
Spotify Description and Darger Influence
00:09:50
Speaker
all info.
00:09:51
Speaker
Okay, that would have been okay if you had, but I wanna read it. Either way, I'm gonna read it to you and so that way the viewer, the listeners have an idea. The audience, y'all. Our lovely fans, please leave a rating.
00:10:06
Speaker
Yes. Okay, so this is the description of the album. I'll read it for you now.
00:10:27
Speaker
thought long about what is that thing between my legs, shaved my head, no identity now. Then a lot of us started singing, banging, breaking, what was once a single voice grew into many. One broken arm, one wrote a book, one kept bees, two were bashed, two finished degrees, more and more came in and out of rooms.
00:10:50
Speaker
After many more blackouts and long nights hollering until the throat stung we had divorce lawyers I shaved my head an album that amalgamates sexual histories into a story about a failed marriage between two people of confused genders and Identities taking place during a Henry Darger inspired Glandalinian war in the year 1990 That's a lot
00:11:18
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So, OK. So that's yeah. That's a lot that I was able to glean on my own. So this this album, to me, it's a very cohesive story. It is a story, but it is inspired. It was inspired by a breakup. Jordan had gone through prior to the album's creation.
00:11:44
Speaker
During the relationship, Jordan's partner realized that they were trans. It is a very personal album that deals with the idea and confusion of gender and love, but it still remains abstract and there are many ways to interpret the story. So it's not exactly true in the sense that Jordan was married and it's about a marriage, but it is
00:12:10
Speaker
It's heavily inspired by that. It's taking different parts of a life and experience of Jordan and I assume the people around them and combining it with this sort of epic from Henry Darger.
00:12:29
Speaker
that inspired Jordan and turning it into this, I want to say an epic of Jordan's own, creating their own mythos and making something bigger than just themselves. After the first listen or couple of listens maybe,
00:12:48
Speaker
you know, I was just hearing it as a story about a marriage.
Album Conceptual Depth
00:12:54
Speaker
And there's a lot of imagery that kept popping up, like, you know, soldiers and, you know, stuff like that. And, you know, there's an interlude about the Glendolinian War. I don't know what that means. I don't know what a Glendolinian War is. But I started to realize pretty soon that, you know, this is a story that takes place in like,
00:13:17
Speaker
um a post-apocalyptic war zone but yeah yeah it's a concept album and i guess i didn't realize that yeah it kind of it kind of is a concept album i think to me i think of it more closer to being a story than on purpose a concept album i think the you know many lyrics are like poetry but i truly think that
00:13:46
Speaker
I mean, Jordan is a poet and these lyrics, almost all of them to me, just are straight up poems with music in a way that other lyrics, they don't give that. You know what I mean? But as far as the Glandalinian war goes, that's kind of a shortened version of the Glandico
00:14:13
Speaker
and Angelinian war of Henry Darger's In the Realms of the Unreal, which is a work. It's like a story. There's illustrations. There's paintings. I'm not going to get too into that because that's like a whole thing. But Jordan is very much influenced by that work. And so the Glenico-Angelinian war
00:14:42
Speaker
is this whole thing, but they shortened it to Glandolinian, which I kind of think is so interesting because if you look up Glandolinian War, you can't even really find what that means.
Horse Museum Collective Insight
00:14:58
Speaker
But yeah, I wondered about that definitely a lot, and I have a much clearer image of that inspiration now, which I hope I can impart on you a little bit. Yes, please.
00:15:10
Speaker
but yeah and I will so yeah so I just think that that summary of the album and the horse museum just gives you such a clear image and of course you kind of already gleaned some of the information from the album of course but for those who are listening who may not listen to the album or want some like information about it before we start that is a pretty incredible summary of the collective that is the horse museum
00:15:40
Speaker
The Horse Museum itself, apart from Jordan Mason, is a group of musicians slash artists formed in 2007 in Toronto. Forgot to mention Jordan Mason is Canadian. They were living with a bunch of roommates who were also artists and Jordan's partner at the time was also included in the band. So this album is very much
00:16:05
Speaker
of the time that it was created which is what I love about that summary of more and more came in and out of rooms because it really is a collection of friends and artists coming together at a single moment in time and you kind of can't really recreate what this collective was and did because it was just of that brief moment and so I think it's beautiful but also it's
00:16:34
Speaker
Not sad, but kind of sad in the way that it's fleeting, but it's a beautiful way to see where all these people came together at a time in their lives and created this beautiful story, this album that is really, really important. All right, let's open it up with the first track on the album, Birds Nest. Okay.
'Birds Nest' Song Analysis
00:16:57
Speaker
The themes of this album are presented immediately in this first track, you know, gender and gender confusion and dysphoria are the first things that are mentioned. And, you know, there's a metaphor on top of a metaphor, I think, and it takes a second to wrap your head around. You know, like you said, a lot of this is poetry and
00:17:21
Speaker
I didn't want to feel too much like I was in English class trying to analyze a lot of this stuff. But it starts off my confusion on the album as well. Because I'm not sure what genders and pronouns and sex organs are corresponding to whom and who and what.
00:17:44
Speaker
I'm trying to figure out the characters of this story. And maybe that's the point, because sex and gender are such an abstract concept. Anyway, everything is a spectrum. Genitals and genders never relate to each other. Pronouns are literally just a part of speech. It could be anything you want.
00:18:08
Speaker
I don't know what they are referring to exactly in this song, but it sounds like I want to be as delicate as possible. This sounds like it's a song about semen.
00:18:20
Speaker
Okay, yeah. And, you know, it's, you know, referring to this semen as ovaries, which again, you know, is that gender dysphoria and, you know, referring to those ovaries as a bird's nest, which makes sense, ovaries, eggs. And, you know, he's talking, sorry, they're talking to a dentist to get a semen out of the mouth.
00:18:45
Speaker
But, yeah, I guess, you know, we haven't talked about the music itself a lot. And, you know, this is the first taste we get of the music. I love the instrumental here. But, you know, it's harder to focus. I think the subject matter is the focus.
00:19:00
Speaker
I think we can talk about the music after the lyrics because with this song, it really opens up the whole lyric part of the song is at the start and then you have a whole musical end or rest of the song and end. Yes.
00:19:17
Speaker
So we can just kind of talk a little bit about the the lyrics. I think I'll read the lyrics because this just of this particular song probably because it's just a short. Yeah. So the lyrics are just right away telling you.
00:19:34
Speaker
You know, the gender confusion, the gender fuckery is just immediately apparent. So the lyrics are, my mouth is filled with his ovaries. I hold them here between my teeth. Oh, get these birds nests out of me. Dentists get these birds nests out of me. How do you fertilize what cannot be? How do you fertilize what cannot be? Dentists get these birds nests out of me.
00:20:01
Speaker
So very intense imagery, very intensely intimate right away, which I really love about this opener. It's immediately striking you and letting you know that this album is not for the faint of heart, I think. No, it sets the tone and weeds out any pussies not ready to listen to it.
00:20:29
Speaker
yeah exactly kind of a funny word to use there but um so this is something that happens a lot throughout this well maybe not a lot but happens throughout this album is this using quote unquote the wrong you know words or gender signifiers uh jordan does this on purpose you know my mouth is filled with his ovaries we don't you know we don't
00:20:57
Speaker
think of ovaries as belonging to a key. And what is that? But to me, I said it's bending and twisting vocabulary not meant for queer and trans people. The album immediately contextualizes itself sort of in and out of a society, you could say.
00:21:22
Speaker
So yeah, so but this this fucking with gender signifier thing was adopted from Henry Darja, who in his epic in the realms of the unreal portrayed the female characters, the Vivian girls as having penises. And some speculate, you know, that this could be a gender confusion thing on Henry Darja's part or that maybe he just did not know what
00:21:50
Speaker
looked like. But for whatever reason he did it, that's what it is. And so that really inspired Jordan. And yeah, so that's kind of where that originates from.
00:22:03
Speaker
Gotcha, okay. So can I ask the other person in this song that isn't the narrator, I don't think I ever figured out like, you know, what their assigned at birth gender was and what gender they are now and what, you know, I was never able to, like, I don't know, I was never able to figure it out until I just thought, you know, does it really matter?
00:22:31
Speaker
Right, yeah. I read it more as ovaries are the testicles, but because this person, maybe a trans woman,
00:22:46
Speaker
they're affectionately referred to as ovaries and this is kind of a messy song in that these bird's nest obviously, bird's nest holding of eggs like you said but also in my mind when I think of a bird's nest I think of like kind of a mess in a way like it's a home but it's a mess of sticks and
00:23:12
Speaker
twigs and whatever you can find so it's kind of this uncomfortability of holding that that exchange of maybe like an intimate moment but not understanding your partner and kind of maybe not wanting to deal with all that they're bringing to the table.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's, I mean, and this album does this a lot, you know, when it talks about sex. It's, it's not, it doesn't seem glamorous, or very sexy ever. It's like, the narrator talks a lot about talks about sex in a very, like, they highlight the, the
00:23:52
Speaker
the gross parts of sex, the parts that no one ever talks about or is put into media, like humans are gross. And I feel like a lot of this, the sex that is talked about here is kind of grimy in a way, like it's uncomfortable and uneasy.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think that, I mean, obviously just like completely heterosis gendered sexes, of course, can be just gross and whatever, blah, you know. Also, I think this is going to come off as maybe like extra messy because we're just not used to so much so many like layers of confusion and mess and, you know, conflict coming with coming.
00:24:39
Speaker
you know, coming out of the sex part. But also if you think of, you know, sex within a marriage, like no one, no one wants to talk about, you know, marital sex, like the way that that sex is talked about in this album, it almost seems like the narrator hates sex.
00:24:58
Speaker
Oh, I don't see it as that. But also, there's a lot of imagery, there's a lot of kind of, I don't want to say romanticism, but when you write poetry, obviously things flourish.
00:25:14
Speaker
Anyways, but we can talk more about that in those instances that you feel that way further along in the album. But after this declaration of the lyrics, we have the musical part and I think you'll feel more comfortable talking about that. What do you have to say about that?
00:25:31
Speaker
I love the instrumental. I love the horns. The horns stay present throughout the whole album, and I love horns. I love acoustic folk music in general, but it moves very slowly on this song. It feels thick, like you're swimming through syrup. That's what the instrumental of this song sounds like. It's uncomfortable and uneasy, but it's also like
00:26:00
Speaker
warm and understanding at the same time. And there's, you know, these dissonant tones in the background that go across the whole thing. And it kind of teases where the rest of the album will go thematically and musically. Yeah, the latter half of this track is I like the instrumental.
00:26:20
Speaker
Yeah, I absolutely love the instrumental horns. The brass section really is it's kind of like a steady march and it's almost the music is almost saying like come with us, you know, and leads you to the rest of the album. But yeah, I do agree. It sounds like thick.
00:26:41
Speaker
It's very rich. And I don't think I really have heard the way that the music is arranged on this album. I don't really think I've heard much like it. It's very, yes, it's very unique, very interesting.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah, which makes sense because, you know, the collective, you know, every person in this collective of the Horse Museum, you know, they were significant in arranging and contributing. And I think you really feel that in this album, but let's march on to the next track, Organs for Oceans.
'Organs for Oceans' and Thematic Exploration
00:27:18
Speaker
More sex, let's get into it.
00:27:21
Speaker
Yes. The first thing I wrote down and then I literally put a strike through through it. I put I think another song about cum. But I, you know, I stopped trying to make every song about Jizz. Uh huh. So classic straight man.
00:27:45
Speaker
Amazingly, I actually have less to say about this song than the previous song. It's a haunting and uncomfortable song yet again, and it's that tremble in Jordan's voice, and it's recorded like they're throwing their voice at you from across the room.
00:28:04
Speaker
with so much emotion, like as much emotion as possible. It's palpable. And the recording across this whole album, but especially on this song, it sounds very open. It sounds like they're in an open room. I love the...
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. They're so haunting. They add to that kind of eeriness to it. I was trying to decipher the lyrics of the song, and there are pieces of it that I understand, but I'm having trouble with the overarching story here, I guess. Drowning, a landlord, love songs, and a bathtub are some things that I wrote down. I just want to know how it all connects.
00:28:50
Speaker
And what this poetry means because I'm having a hard time. It's amazingly written I just wish I was smart enough maybe queer enough to understand it. Okay. I love that Yeah, if you want to just throw out, you know what just just let me know what sticks out to you what? Stays with you and then we can go from there I don't you know when you said like you don't want to feel like you're an English class to me when I'm like Pouring over
00:29:17
Speaker
these lines that I've sung for many years but never really sat down and said, okay, what can I look for in here that I'm not understanding? There's many lines and lyrics in this album where I'm like, I can't make sense of this one. I still don't get what this is. But you don't always have to. It's about the feeling. But
00:29:38
Speaker
Um, I want it to be fun, you know, more of like a puzzle, but a fun puzzle in like, what can I get from this? Like what, maybe there's like a hidden meaning and it, you know, um, it should be a fun thing. But if, if it's not, then, you know, that's okay. It's not, it's not for everybody. I, for Oceans is the name of the song. I don't think we said the name of the song. I think I did. Oh. Bitch. Ignore me.
00:30:04
Speaker
There's some really straightforward lyrics in here and I'm gonna say I understand what you were saying in the previous song about sex not being sexy because the opening to this song is, he slept in my bed after I filled his body with insects and panic. And of course that doesn't- Yeah, that's not very sexy.
00:30:28
Speaker
Well, I don't think that... What's so funny about you saying that is I've never thought about the sex on this album not being sexy. I've always just thought of it as sex and that's just reality. I've never thought like, that's not very sexy. I've always just thought like, yeah, that's real.
00:30:51
Speaker
So it's funny that you're mentioning that now. I was not even thinking about that. So in this song, the narrator describes a sexual experience in which they refer to themselves as being useless due to the inability to procreate the sexual experience that the two characters are having is not going to result in a baby.
00:31:15
Speaker
And for society, that is kind of what the point of sex is in a way. You know, you get married, you have kids, you have sex to have kids. That is what happens in a cisgender hetero relationship. So the line, I was useless inside him.
00:31:34
Speaker
to me is very heartbreaking because of course there's so much more to sex but i understand that the narrator is conflicted with not understanding that because of maybe what you've been what they've been taught since you're a child all you see is families of moms and dads and kids and that is what you do you know when a
00:32:00
Speaker
you know where do babies come from when a mom and dad love you when a man and woman love each other blah blah blah you know and so they're pleading to trade organs for oceans which i still can't figure that line out like what the ocean is but the line you know is there a vaccine for this and implying that they're sick and diseased it's just a very intense and heartbreaking language but
00:32:30
Speaker
I wanted to say, so the lines are, is there a vaccine for this to clean out all the unborn kids? And followed by that, in parentheses, a whole graveyard here in this bed. There are some unspoken lyrics in this album that you can see in the lyrics, which are kind of like the narrator's inner monologue.
00:32:52
Speaker
a whole graveyard here in this bed is in parentheses um so they're just like here and there throughout the album it it's not necessary to know but if you dig more into the album you'll see it's like a little a little you know easter egg um but you you said
00:33:09
Speaker
landlord bathtub you know um i really love the the lines you know he broke me good where the landlord left scars emptied all the bedrooms to reclaim the stretch marks to me that's like to me the landlord is the person inhabiting the body like left scars like like harming yourself
'Avalanches' Metaphoric Complexity
00:33:33
Speaker
and it's just kind of that's that's what i think of i don't know if that's
00:33:37
Speaker
accurate to what Jordan was thinking but that's kind of like my little interpretation of that. I think that makes sense yeah. Yeah and then there's some religious imagery at the end which ties into the queer experience. A lot of and a lot of people just grow up with religion and a lot of self-hate because of growing up with religion and that's not unique to to queer people but I think all of us can kind of
00:34:05
Speaker
Not all of us, but a lot of people can relate to that. Even if you're not, you know, raised in any church, it bleeds. It's a sickness. Yes. Yeah, no, you're totally right.
00:34:18
Speaker
I'm preaching. Yes, amen. Preach to me. Yeah, so musically, you touched on that a little bit. Incredible powerhouse voice Jordan has. I just go crazy listening to this album and I just let it, ah, you know.
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah, vocals on this track are crazy. Very good. And I like the instrumental, too. You know, I always love an acoustic guitar. And in the last part of the song, we get some we get like almost like a breakdown kind of thing with some percussion. Right. And then we get like it's more intense. I know you like that. Yeah. Yeah. We get an increase in the tempo and it almost becomes frantic. Right. It's like a rush. And yeah, I love that.
00:35:05
Speaker
Yes, yeah, I'm glad that you do. Moving on to Avalanches, the most palatable song on this album. Okay. Do you disagree? Do you think so? Is that the general consensus? I do think so. What do you think is the most palatable song on this album? I think this track is the most- Well, it's interesting that you say that because I think it's this song as well. But
00:35:30
Speaker
okay well yes i didn't think that it was up for debate i just thought it was plainly obvious i think i think there's other options but yeah it's probably this is the most maybe it is it has the most streams on spotify this song does it yes oh i thought i thought the next one had more
00:35:50
Speaker
nope we're at 1.7 million for avalanches oh wow jeez okay um this is my first favorite on the album this is one that i think you knew that i already had saved in my music this is one that you know i've listened to a lot all the time i've put it on a lot of playlists
00:36:10
Speaker
And I love the sound of it, but I also love the lyrics and the symbolism, but I never really thought about it too much, I guess, in a lot of my listening. It was always on, and I was like, yeah, this is good, and I like listening to it, but I never really thought about it too much.
00:36:28
Speaker
And now, listening to this album a bunch of times, it feels strange to pick a favorite or to listen to songs on their own, because I really feel like this album needs to be listened to as a whole.
00:36:45
Speaker
And yes, I mean, this is a singular piece of music. And yes, it's the most streamed from this album. But I don't know, it just feels like it needs to be on the album. And it's weird to say this is my favorite. I listen to it outside of the album. It just feels weird now to me. You know, this song,
00:37:05
Speaker
is another one that's metaphors on top of metaphors. Oh, yeah, okay. I had a hard time keeping track of these metaphors that were going on. You know, snow is flesh in gardens. Okay, sure. I don't know what that means, but I can accept that. But then they say, you know, they say that they don't have mouths, and then I get lost again.
00:37:27
Speaker
And then, you know, the whole thing, I just can't grasp, you know, what story is trying to be told here. I know the feeling, right? I like I know the vibe of it. I don't have to understand every single leader to understand what this song is saying to me and to other people. Yes, preach. And it's saying what? I don't know. OK. But yeah, I love this song.
00:37:53
Speaker
So you don't really have like an interpretation. You're just kind of accepting that there is a meaning, but you don't know. You're agnostic. Yeah, I wrote down, why are their bodies avalanches? I've lost the plot. Okay, that's perfect. I love it. I'd love to hear any, if you have any thoughts or if there's confusion or understanding, whatever it is, I just love, I love to hear it. We'll work through it. Thank you. Thank you.
00:38:21
Speaker
I love this track so much. I love the simple lyrics. I think the songs that are so much shorter in the lyricism, it's like a real treat. It's just a nugget because there's so much there in just a couple of lines.
00:38:40
Speaker
Jordan is just incredible, I think. So yeah, if snow is flesh and gardens, we don't have mouths to talk about it. So if snow is our human flesh,
00:38:57
Speaker
in a garden. We don't have mouths to talk about, so for me it's like we don't have mouths to talk about it in that nature doesn't discuss itself, it just exists. But also we don't have mouths, we cannot talk, we are illiterate, all of this type of word, all these words and imagery
00:39:20
Speaker
relates to being queer, trans, gay, whatever you are, and not having the proper vocabulary to describe yourself. So I think it, you know, for me, I have this interpretation of, you know, this natural, this nature, we just are. But there's also that connection of not having
00:39:49
Speaker
words to talk about your own experiences and your own self. But between avalanches, we can find our language. So for me, this is like between the chaos and destruction, the building and rebuilding, we can find ourselves and relate to one another. And the narrator says, our bodies will be avalanches, which is just like our bodies will be avalanches. What the heck?
00:40:19
Speaker
But for me, you know, always changing, chaos, being destroyed, in conflict, torn down and built up again. That is what is in nature. Avalanches are natural and to us it might be destruction, but it is completely, you know, meant to be in a way. And aside from that, besides that, I just want to say I am in love with the
00:40:47
Speaker
If snow is like skin, it pulls away so easy, dried from the body. It kind of is, I think of it as like this violent imagery, but I don't think that it is meant to be. I just wanted to make that little note. Interesting. Okay.
00:41:06
Speaker
Yeah, like if snow is like skin, our skin pulls away so easy from the body. The snow melts away from the ground very easily. Like it's just we are one, you know, like we are one with nature. We are one with the earth. We are meant to be. I think it's like a very comforting
00:41:27
Speaker
not just to people in the LGBT community, but just to anyone who inhabits a body and feels strange and out of place and unnatural. It's like our bodies will be avalanches. We are a part of nature.
00:41:51
Speaker
See, I think the violent imagery is on purpose. I mean, I think this album is filled with violent, grisly imagery. Yes, me too. I just don't see it. I think in this as I'm going back to the song, because I've listened to the song many times and I'm like, oh, violent imagery in this song. But as I'm as I have like analyzed the rest of it, I just don't see it as anymore. So my interpretation has changed. That's all I'm making a note of.
00:42:16
Speaker
I love the melody. I love the tune of this song. It gets stuck in my head really easily. It's really nice sounding. And it's the first one on the album that doesn't sound uncomfortable and haunting. And this track almost feels optimistic, light, airy. I like it.
00:42:41
Speaker
I think it is that, you know, it's like a comforting track. There's, you know, multiple voices on the, not the chorus, but, you know, between avalanches, it's like sung together. You know, it's like we're comforting each other. And I feel that it is like a comforting type of song to sing to your community. Yes. Yeah.
00:43:07
Speaker
Are you ready for the second most popular track? Yeah. Racehorse Get Married.
'Racehorse Get Married' Emotional Impact
00:43:17
Speaker
Racehorse Get Married is the first song that I heard from this album. It was sent to me by a close friend of mine at the time. I immediately was like, whoa, OK, because that is the nature of many of the songs.
00:43:37
Speaker
on this album and i guess i don't remember much after that but i guess i was intrigued enough to you know dive into the rest of the album but this is one of the most popular or it is the second most popular song on this album very striking it immediately greets you with you fuck like a racehorse so what are your what are your thoughts on that
00:44:07
Speaker
The way that they sing this, the way that Jordan sings this, it's it's it's almost like like they're sounding strained and the accent. Where are they from? They're a Canadian, remember? OK, so what's the accent? Because I feel like I hear such an intense accent on this song, like it's really accentuating like just the the way that
00:44:32
Speaker
That is indie punk accent. OK, got it. OK, there we go. You know, indie indie folk punk. Yes. Accent of the 2000. Oh, I don't think I ever said that this album came out in 2009. Right at the end of the decade. You know that, you know, but also their their voices vary their own. But yeah, I think yes, there is that their voice has been shaped, I'm sure, by the other music.
00:45:02
Speaker
Yeah, they're singing like their vocal cords are trying to break out of their neck. Yes. It seems very, very intense, very emotion filled, aggressive.
00:45:15
Speaker
Yeah, in their previous albums, they, you know, kind of started out as more of the like Elliott Smith variety and over time kind of grew into using their voice louder, pushing it to the edge, really saying like, here I am, here is my strength and my voice kind of thing. And I love the way that they use it on this album.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, this song is very good. But for me, it's a hard listen. And I think for most people, it would be a hard listen, I think.
00:45:55
Speaker
I want to say that it was hard to get a lot of my thoughts down on this album. And I think you know how dense and how detailed this album is. And I can never say everything that I want to say. But you know, this song feels more direct than other songs on this album.
00:46:17
Speaker
Um, like this song is being directed at someone, you know, the, the lyrics across this whole thing, despite, you know, again, not understanding all of the symbolism and metaphors here, the lyrics across it are evocative. They're very evocative.
00:46:33
Speaker
And they sing with, you know, like I said, all sorts of emotion could break down into tears at any moment. And, you know, this song is where I start getting hints of Phil Elverum from the microphones and Mount Erie. The songwriting feels very similar.
00:46:52
Speaker
The instrumentation feels very similar and the emotive singing feels very similar. And a lot of Phil Overham songs are absolutely amazing, but they feel weird to listen to out of context of the album. And I think this song is like that. It's a hard listen. It's hard to listen out of context of the album. It's an objectively beautiful song, I think, but it just makes me feel heavy and it brings me down, but it's beautiful.
00:47:21
Speaker
yeah that's that's totally fair it definitely is hard to listen to you know this type of album that deals with the just you know breakdown of a marriage um there's like a lot of pain and emotion and this is one of the more wordy songs it's longer in the it's longer and it's um
00:47:45
Speaker
the whole thing that's whole the whole thing of it um and the lyrics it's longer so there's there's a lot to get into to there's a lot to sink your teeth into with this song and it does have kind of like a sadder tone i would say before i talked about some of the lyrics and the meaning are there any lines that stick out to you or anything like that
00:48:11
Speaker
Um, well, you know, obviously the the one that sticks out to anyone that hears this song is you can swallow shotguns if you want to. I think that's such a punch you in the gut lyric sitting on its own. Yeah. I mean, and the the way that they sing. It's your wedding day. Your wedding day. Say yes. There's something about it just sounds very, very nice in my brain. And so that part sticks out to me. But
00:48:41
Speaker
it sounds very devastating the way it's sung yeah it is kind of um like you're almost forced to you know there's very much an urgency in this song talking like talking to oneself into the marriage i don't really know what that means you fuck like a racehorse and then immediately followed by it's your wedding day your wedding day say yes
00:49:06
Speaker
I thought of the phrase, you know, I gotta piss like a racehorse, right? Right. So I'm like... You've heard of pissing like a racehorse. Get ready for fucking like a racehorse. Get ready for fucking like a racehorse, yeah. Did you see that video on Twitter? No. Of the dude and the horse? Oh, I know of it, but I don't think I've seen that. Okay, anyway. This album was actually inspired by that.
00:49:33
Speaker
Oh, no, no, no, no. That's not true. I hope that Jordan Mason has, you know, a sense of humor. I don't. Absolutely. I don't think that they would listen to this. But there are some darkly humorous parts on this. Yes, I know. I just I guess a sense of humor about this. I don't know. Anyways, OK, I will talk about my little tidbits about this. OK.
00:49:59
Speaker
So this this song provides a lot of imagery for me that stems from both the lyrics and the album cover. I didn't even mention the album cover. There's literally so much to mention with this album that I'm going to forget some things. And I that's probably why I'm so anxious and nervous about it, because this this album means so much to me. But the album cover is I'm pretty sure it's Jordan sitting in I think it's a rocking chair, wearing a wedding dress, wearing
00:50:27
Speaker
boots, wearing a horse mask, holding a shotgun. It's a reference to a nether albums artwork. I can't remember the name of that album. But it's one of my favorite album artworks of all time. It's beautiful. It really reminds me of like old timey farmhouse. And that's a lot of the imagery that I get off of this album. And I think of when I think of the
00:50:53
Speaker
the marriage, these two characters who are married, I imagine them on this farmhouse when they've got their shotgun and they hunt and they do all of the things that you do when you're living in the country or the woods or something, you know what I mean? One of my favorite lines is in the song,
00:51:12
Speaker
I'll say the previous line. Memorize your casket, your mother patterns, the space between your legs. I grab what's good of you. That line has always stuck out to me. The idea of your genitals as being the part that's good of you. Because I think of someone
00:51:34
Speaker
that being like really crude of like all you're good for is that but in this context i don't think that's what it means at all i don't know in a way it could be loving the way that they sing it it like doesn't sound that way but i don't know you know it's up for interpretation and it's just kind of
00:51:53
Speaker
It's always stuck out to me though, and I've always kind of related to it in a way. I hear you. Yeah. One of the main, kind of the direct center of this song is, I would like a word with you.
00:52:09
Speaker
They really, really would like a word with you, the way that it's sung is like pleading. And that is, Jordan said, the song is really about exactly that, wanting a word with someone, wanting to occupy a category together, wanting to be finite when nothing is or can or ever will be.
00:52:32
Speaker
So how do you have a marriage in a non-hetero relationship? What does marriage even mean? What do you call it? So it's another part of not having the vocabulary of the words to describe yourself as somebody who exists sort of in the fringes of society, I'd say. And just wanting to belong.
00:52:54
Speaker
So one of my other favorite lines and parts is you can swallow shotguns if you want to. The swallowing shotguns is a very strong image. This song isn't about suicide, but it's something I've related it to. I actually think this line is more
00:53:17
Speaker
sexual in nature or it could have many meanings either way i think it shows a lot of love and acceptance giving someone the freedom to be who they are and live the life they want to you know you can kill your old self the version of you that you show to the world and marry me and be gay or whatever or whatever
00:53:39
Speaker
yeah sometimes you know i think about the more like darker meaning that that could have it's it i don't think it means that in the song but i've i have listened to this album a lot when depressed and suicidal and it's just really comforted me and i've related to it in that way through that lens and
00:54:03
Speaker
I don't want to say that this album isn't about that because it's definitely not about suicide, but it is written and created by a group of people who have dealt with mental health issues. So I think it inherently is going to have a certain tilt to it. Yeah, precisely. Okay.
'Vivian Sisters' and Artistic Connection
00:54:30
Speaker
Should we get into the wrong part?
00:54:32
Speaker
Who are the Vivian sisters? So the Vivian sisters I mentioned earlier is from the Henry Darger epic. There's seven sisters. I'm pretty sure they're the protagonists of the story. And they're the ones who, in Henry Darger's illustrations, have been portrayed as having penises. Yeah, so this song. So they're singing in this song.
00:54:59
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think that's like, I mean, yeah, they are singing. So this is you're welcome. So this is a song that's about or very much influenced by that Henry Darger story.
00:55:15
Speaker
And I think it's really fun. This is such a fun track. It is not really like a fast, but it's kind of like upbeat. And the way that the guitar strumming has like, it's not really like Spanish guitar-y, but it in a way kind of it. Do you know what I mean? This album has a few moments of that. Yeah, almost almost a Spanish guitar. Yeah.
00:55:40
Speaker
Right. And and this this song kind of has that almost like all the way throughout. It does have like a little bit of a slower breakdown and then it like goes back into the the sound. The yeah, the sound of this song, it almost sounds like a like a big epic ballad, you know.
00:56:02
Speaker
Yes, yeah, I think that this is such a great accompanying song to the Henry Darger work. I think that some of the best songs are inspired by like books or stories or like
00:56:17
Speaker
written work. I think that it just inspires really cool songs. This song is much more easy to interpret because of that. I can almost tell you basically what each part of it means. There's one of my favorite lines. There's an illiteracy between our legs where parts of me are you and parts of you are me. I love the way that song, the harmony in that is really cool. Of course, it gives you that sonic
00:56:47
Speaker
kind of in not interpretation but you know it's sung together in different tones because of Jordan's voice and then the other person's voice it's like complementing and it's really cool
00:57:03
Speaker
And then there is a hidden parenthetical note in a part of the, in the song. It's after, and there is an illiteracy between our legs. The second one after that is followed with, it's followed by I've tried to ignore it. This part, that part, which part, both parts, please say wrong parts. So I just really like that in the way that it's kind of chanted. This is such a fun song and it's really cool, I think.
00:57:34
Speaker
It's interesting that you keep calling it fun. I have a hard time calling any of this album fun. I think this one's so fun with the way that it's sung, The Soldiers Are Coming. I like that a lot. And the brass section just is so much fun.
00:57:54
Speaker
To me, it almost feels ominous. Yeah. Yeah, it is like like like there's something bad coming, you know, like man, the battle stations. Right. And that's that's what's fun about it, because like if you watch a movie, the scene in the movie where everyone's getting ready, like it's it's like you're on the edge of your seat, you know, they're getting ready for war. But the the war in the story, it's like
00:58:23
Speaker
there it's a whole war about like this child there's like child slavery it's a child slave rebellion and so the seven sisters are children and the lines that say and i'm wearing the costumes of children so i can confuse become them but how do you know what's underneath what kind of creature is in me
00:58:48
Speaker
That's a reference to these creatures in the story that are able to morph into children, which is really interesting. It makes me want to read the Henry Darger epic because it just sounds really fascinating. But that is what that is about in the beginning. I'm sharing this bed with seven sisters and you.
00:59:10
Speaker
And I'm holding a baseball bat between us. That is kind of a reference to Jordan's childhood in which they would sleep with a baseball bat. And they relate to the song in that, you know, it's about like child or they relate to the story in that it's about the abuse of children. So that that is how they relate it to their life. God, I sound like I'm illiterate. Let's just let's just say that right now. Wait, what?
00:59:40
Speaker
Just my words are not coming out very clear. I think your words are. Your words are great. I love your words. You know, I guess the the first time that I, you know, heard this song, I thought this song was basically like a sex scene, you know, like with children. Well, OK, but you didn't know it's OK, even though it says children.
01:00:04
Speaker
It feels like a sex scene filled with confusion and uncomfortable moments, you know, right after their wedding. And you know, after getting married, sex can change drastically. I know after my three ex-wives.
01:00:20
Speaker
And things can definitely change. And you're just trying to show love to your partner sexually. But they're going through all of this. They just came out as trans and have realized what this body dysmorphia means, this gender dysphoria.
01:00:41
Speaker
You know, I think what the narrator is talking about here is that it almost feels like having sex with a stranger at this point. The narrator keeps asking if their partner has a safe word. They clearly do not have a safe word. They say it multiple times. They do not have a safe word, but it's repetitive. It keeps getting said over and over again. It's like they're trying to navigate each other because now all of this is new. It used to be familiar to them.
01:01:08
Speaker
But it's all new. They're just trying to figure each other out. But it's all in a completely respectful and no ill will kind of way. Yeah, it just feels like a lot of confusion around what sex is supposed to be like for them now.
01:01:26
Speaker
That's really interesting. The way that I interpret that part is like the, so this, this couple, the dissolution of this marriage is happening during the kalandalinian war. So the way that I read this song is that this, this song kind of happens outside of them.
01:01:44
Speaker
And then like different scenes in a movie and then this, do you have a safe word? I don't have a safe word refrain. The music changes and it's almost like we're cutting to a scene of these two people who are trying to be intimate or understand their intimacy while this war is going on. Does that make sense? And then we kind of like cut back to getting ready for war. Yeah, it's like a soliloquy.
01:02:13
Speaker
Yeah, so it's kind of happening somewhere else and we're cutting to that, like a little juxtaposition with the rest of the song. Thank you. That's how I rate it. That's what I think of. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's really cool.
'Prayer' Introspection and Depth
01:02:30
Speaker
I like the horns again in this song. I like the horns. And I like the whimsical instruments.
01:02:36
Speaker
I love it. The whole. I can't do it. I can't really do it. I was listening to the song. Loved it. Oh, yeah. I want to do more, but I won't. Go listen to the song if you want to know what it sounds like. It's the longest song on the album is also the longest segment in this podcast.
01:03:01
Speaker
All right, all right. Prayer, next song on the album. It's a little short and sweet one. Yeah. This is a song that intrigues me a lot, actually. And it's the song that stuck with me the first time you ever played this album around me. It's like the only song that stuck with me. There's a lot of questions being asked about cock.
01:03:27
Speaker
and a lot of confusion. And it seems like, again, they're just trying to understand how sex works in this new gender gray area that they live in. They're not a gray area. Gray area is a bad term. I know what you mean.
01:03:46
Speaker
Yeah, they're just, it's new, right? And they're trying to figure out how it all works. I feel the emotion in this song. I know the feelings that are being put forward here. It feels like an interlude of sorts. I mean, I know it's a short song, but this song feels like an internal monologue.
01:04:11
Speaker
like the narrator's internal monologue, like it's not being said out loud. And again, like most of the songs on this album, it's uncomfortable and it has delicate subject matter, but it's put right in front of your face with, you know, it's in a complete matter of fact way. It's a blunt straight up. Yes, it's very honest.
01:04:33
Speaker
Yes, the narrator isn't trying to protect anyone from any subject matter and how uncomfortable it can be in its non-sexuality. Yeah, this song feels like a Black Country New Road song. Oh, that's interesting. With the horns and the way that the singing is metered. Yeah, I very much like this song. But again, I would probably never listen to it out of context of this album.
01:04:58
Speaker
okay that's perfectly fair i think a lot of the songs on this album live within the album very well and you know maybe you don't take them out of the house very often and that's fine you brought something up that i was i think i was going to start this episode with saying that i you know one of the first times that we i don't know went out you could say i tried to show you this album
01:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, I remember it. Yeah. That's so embarrassing. That's such an embarrassing thing. While I was listening to this and I was remembering that, I was like, Jesus Christ, I was like so depressed. I was so desperately trying to relate to somebody else and show this album to somebody else and discuss it and feel it, you know? And so it's kind of funny. Here we are doing that.
01:05:55
Speaker
in a much better context, I think. So the first part of this song, I don't I said, honestly, I don't know what the heck this means. Sold my skin for all their cancer. What do you want from me? I will not clinic you easy. I was like,
01:06:14
Speaker
i don't know i'm sorry i don't know what this is but the whole part of where do you put your cock in when how it is really honest and direct um i think it's an honest and direct
01:06:30
Speaker
I guess for lack of a better word, depiction of queer trans sex or intimacy perhaps? How do you have sex when you don't understand what your parts are or what they mean or the purpose of the act itself?
01:06:49
Speaker
if it's supposed to result in a child. What is it when it doesn't do that? I love the sweetness and innocent sound of the song. I think it's very sweet, the instrumental itself and the way that Jordan sings and the way that it's metered.
01:07:10
Speaker
So though there is a struggle and there can be emotional pain when attempting to be intimate with someone while you're processing your own gender, identity, body existence, it's still a beautiful thing to share with someone, to be intimate with someone through all the chaos.
01:07:33
Speaker
Yeah, this album, I guess, I don't know, because I didn't think you were going to talk about directly the first time that you played this album for me. But like in my mind, that's like, I don't know, that night is very vivid to me.
01:07:48
Speaker
Um, and it sticks in my head very often. So this song sticks in my head very often and it kind of, uh, carries a lot of weight for me, I guess, in, in a separate way than what the song is intending. Yeah. And I mean, that's what music is and what it does. Yeah. Uh, you will.
Exploring 'You Will'
01:08:10
Speaker
Okay. This is, this is actually, uh, another one of my, it's, it's up there for me on this album, mostly because of how it sounds.
01:08:18
Speaker
up there as in one that you like.
01:08:20
Speaker
One of my favorites, yes. Wow. But mostly because how it sounds. But this is a dense track. Yes. And I don't feel equipped to dig into it. I am straight and cis and stupid, but I love the way that it sounds. I get a lot of neutral milk hotel vibes from this song and a lot of other songs too.
01:08:50
Speaker
And again, this song talks about sex in a very blunt way and it doesn't say it gently and it doesn't detail the good and fun parts of sex, just the uncomfortable dirty parts. But the narrator doesn't seem to think sex is gross. It's just like a frustration that they don't understand yet.
01:09:12
Speaker
Well, I think it's kind of problematic that you're saying the gross and dirty parts when like that's a different sector of sex that you engage in. No, I think I guess I'm not being clear enough. The narrator always talks about before or after sex.
01:09:33
Speaker
never having sex. The sex that is discussed is always, here's all this stuff I gotta clean up. It's messy. I gotta clean it up. I'm confused. What's going on here? It's never like... It's not sexy. It's...
01:09:53
Speaker
Like, are you talking about the end of the song, the end part where it's saying like, and when we pull out of each other, I ask if you can tug me off like that part.
01:10:04
Speaker
Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, that part or yeah, I guess I guess there's there's other songs that are better examples. Oh, I mean, the first part of the song I gave birth to body white, collected to my thighs, held her there between my legs and brought my knees up high. Like, am I crazy? Or is that the image of this person holding a pool of ejaculate in their lap? Like, that's not
01:10:34
Speaker
I think of that as giving birth. Oh, okay. Interesting. That's just what I think of it in the immediate. Yeah. And then, you know, and she slid out. I don't know how she slid out. I don't know how, you know, it's it's after sex. That's how I'm seeing it. And that's how I see a lot in this album is that it's it's.
01:10:56
Speaker
I think of this as different parts. It's not all one narrator. The first part could be one narrator not understanding how they're giving birth and then that part is part of the very end.
01:11:17
Speaker
from a different narrator saying it in the hospital they ask me if I know where your parts go but I tell them your body isn't made from skin they know and that is that is being sung about the person who gave birth and the person who gave birth is saying I don't want to be your wife I couldn't stand to do this my whole life but then these these other parts are maybe different characters or different the characters at different parts and of time you know what I mean
01:11:47
Speaker
Yeah, I hear you. So for me, I think of this song as bits and pieces put together like a collage of moments. See, this is why I was scared for me to talk about this album. Because I talk about this album and you're like, Tanner, that sounds pretty terrible that you think all of this is gross. And it's like, man, I'm just trying to talk about it.
01:12:17
Speaker
I'm just trying to I'm trying to be as as I don't know.
01:12:22
Speaker
That's not what I mean. I know that your interpretation isn't incorrect and saying that it's all gross, I know you don't mean that in an offensive way. I know you're not saying like, oh, gay slash transsex is gross. I know that's not what you're saying. You're interpreting it as the narrator depicting it in this way or describing it in this way. I think I'm more so trying to say for the people who may be listening,
01:12:50
Speaker
to the album or listening to our analysis of it is to to like question why you think that is or like it's more like are you reacting to the sex being the sex that's depicted as being crude or gross because that's what the narrator is describing or because your interpretation of
01:13:16
Speaker
gay, trans, queer sex is maybe not good or moral or you know what I mean? It's not so much to you. It's more so just the idea of interpreting this. And inherently, we're kind of taught to see that type of sex as being wrong. So I just want to make sure that you're not saying that because I don't think that's what you're saying. You know what I mean?
01:13:45
Speaker
No, of course that's not what I'm saying. And I know that that's not what you're saying. I just want to make it clear to the audience that that's not what you're saying. Because not everybody knows you. I feel like I've got to cut all my comments out about this album. No, you really don't. Your comments are perfect. You're perfect. You're great. You're golden. Okay.
01:14:09
Speaker
I'm just going to throw in a little quote from Jordan. Will that help? Sure, maybe, yeah.
01:14:18
Speaker
Okay, so they said there is a completely different way to read the album, which is just to sort of see all the lyrics as this kind of heightened emotional language that's trying to describe gender dysphoria. It's all this confusing metaphor because it's trying to explain that, especially when you first really begin to notice it in yourself, is a confusing state to be in. And again, if you don't have role models, you don't have versions of yourself that you can sort of look up to.
01:14:46
Speaker
See, this is how I interpreted the album. At first, I didn't know there was a story about a war or any epic thing. I thought all of it was a metaphor, simile imagery about gender dysphoria. I thought it was all relating to that. I thought it all led back to that. So I was trying to... That's how I heard every song, right?
01:15:14
Speaker
right uh well i guess i should have talked about the specific stanza because the with in the middle of the song you have these few lines that talked about a boy who built an aviary gathered all the wood he could carry
01:15:31
Speaker
You know, he had antlers that found seaweed from an ocean bed. He carried carvings of his own geography. These are very poetic lyrics. And the way that you can read that is just to see it as like trying to describe gender dysphoria. But you can also just interpret that as, you know, for me, it's like the mythos of this world, like in this world.
01:15:58
Speaker
this boy has antlers and you know he's literally carrying carvings of his own geography and then but he had he stabbed his own eyes out so he couldn't see like you can think of a literal boy who stabbed his own eyes out or you can think of it as somebody trying to
01:16:21
Speaker
figure out their own self, their own identity, build their own geography. So much, though, that it gets lost and they're blinded from their journey of self-discovery that they can't make sense of anything anymore. You can just read it how you want to read it.
01:16:41
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't know there was any lore to immerse myself into. So yeah, I was reading and listening to this like it was all about gender dysphoria and trying to illustrate that.
01:16:54
Speaker
Yeah, that is also how I interpreted it. I think because those parts stand out to us, they're from a world that we know, that's what we're able to analyze much more easily. But this other stuff, this other poetic lyricism, I think builds a whole world that of course is metaphorical for gender dysphoria, but it also builds
01:17:22
Speaker
Like a very not almost a very clear world, but it's clear that it builds its own mythos You know and that's what and that's what I love the more you listen to and the more you dig into the lyrics The more things you can see and find
01:17:37
Speaker
You're right, no, and that's what happened to me. The more I listened to it, the more I realized things and yeah, exactly. And as much as I wanna talk about this for forever, I feel like we gotta move on to the next tracks. Yeah, I'm done with this one. Let's go to him slash her. Good name, clever name. So we've arrived at our first interlude.
01:18:04
Speaker
Yep. No, no lyrics. But, you know, the themes of gender dysphoria are still there in the title. So just so you know, this track sounds exactly like the first two minutes of a 12 minute Black Country New Road song. Like a specific one? No, just like it sounds like if Black Country New Road had a 12 minute song, just any general Black Country New Road, 12 minute song, this is the first two minutes.
01:18:31
Speaker
That makes sense. I can see that. The slow horns and there's this delicate piano and there's this eerie, echoey nature mixing on it. This song, it feels like a nice little break, a reprieve from some of the pretty heavy subject matter that we've been dealing with throughout this album.
01:18:57
Speaker
a track that keeps the tone but offers a little bit of a palate cleanser. I'm pretty sure it divides the album up before we get into the second half.
01:19:09
Speaker
Yes, I love this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's very much piano on this album. Oh, it's very light. It's very subtle. Yeah. And so I love that it's more apparent in this track. I also just want to touch on there is, I mean, there's not lyrics, but in the liner notes, there's a quote, my eyes closed in the club, which is a reference to a song. And that's about like being
01:19:39
Speaker
Gay and out of place in a club and I think that it's so interesting to juxtapose that with this song and this album because you do not think of anything about a club when you listen to this album. No, if this came on in the club, I think something was wrong with DJ.
01:20:00
Speaker
Well, I mean, they just but when you also when you listen to this album, you don't think that clubs exist in this world. No, I know. No, absolutely not. But yeah, I think that's just great because obviously, you know, that's relatable being in a club and feeling like you're alone because you're gay and out of place. Good interlude.
01:20:23
Speaker
Yes, I love it.
'Blank is Water' Lyrical Complexity
01:20:25
Speaker
And that takes us to one of my favorite songs in the whole wide world underscore underscore underscore underscore is water. Can you just say blank is water?
01:20:38
Speaker
Yeah, I call it is water. Oh, okay. But it is kind of an awkward title. Um, but I just wanted to, I wanted to tell the audience, you know what I mean? Like that there, that there's a space there. And what there is is four underscores. So just wanted to be accurate.
01:20:56
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Well, since this is one of your favorite songs of all time. All time. I'll talk about it first. Perfect. This is a song I already knew of because of you. It was a song I was aware of. I didn't know how it went, though. I hadn't heard it a whole bunch besides with you. And I knew it mainly because one year this was your number one most listened to song on Spotify, on your Spotify wrapped.
01:21:25
Speaker
Sad year. Yeah, right. And so I knew this was your favorite song from the album, so I'm really excited to hear you talk about it. And listen, you're saying the sex isn't uncomfortable or grimy on this album, but the first part of this song
01:21:51
Speaker
made myself a map of folds to fuck and feel and feign as meat. That is so visceral and raw, like. Yeah, it's like it's beautiful. I adore it. It's it's it's it's so the sex is being painted as this visceral thing yet again. And do you read it as that?
01:22:18
Speaker
Yes, I do. Because for me, it could have two meanings, made myself, turned myself into folds. Oh, see, I pictured. Or made something for myself. Yes, that's what I pictured. Yeah, so I just, I don't know which one it means, but I kind of like that. Maybe it is both, you know? To me, it is both.
01:22:45
Speaker
In my attempts to interpret this song, the narrator realizes that we're all made of water, we're all just beasts, and sex is a natural thing, but it is gory and gross and uncomfortable for everyone, and maybe isn't fun for most people at all.
01:23:07
Speaker
That's what I get from this song. The repetition on this song, the lyrics, it really gets those feelings across. It's very evocative. I have no idea what most of these repeated things mean at all, but I get it. Why did he eat the rivers? Why did the narrator eat the rivers?
01:23:31
Speaker
I'll dig into this one. So made myself a map of folds to fuck and feel and feign as meat. I really love the idea that it's like turned myself into because, and I do think that you can read it that way because sometimes you just turn yourself into a thing that fucks, you know? Well, yeah, I mean,
01:24:01
Speaker
I think what the narrator is saying, we're all bag of meats. We're all bags of meat. Bag of bones and meat, yeah. And all my bronze is breathing, blind painting.
01:24:16
Speaker
bodies a disease I freaking all the like body being a disease uh lines and imagery on this album I love so much because that is something that I feel so much with my whole heart I feel like a diseased person in my like brain in my body just wholeheartedly matter-of-factly that is how I feel so I really relate and I really feel those lines
01:24:44
Speaker
And I don't exactly know exactly what all of these words mean in the first stanza, but I feel it. You know, your closet's full of dead birds. All my weight is wet. I just really feel that. And then we're going back to organs for oceans, you know, where the narrator says trade organs for oceans. And now we're continuing on with that in that we're bringing the
01:25:12
Speaker
Bring him out the whole ocean. Shout out DJ Khaled. I'm sure he's a big fan of this album. I think so. I really see the inspiration in his work. So yeah, so the narrator is full of water. And I don't really know what that means to trade your organs for oceans and then become full of water, but it is connected. The story is being connected.
01:25:37
Speaker
I think of it as like returning to the earth, right? Yeah, that's a good interpretation for sure. That's how I think how I have always felt it to be. But yeah, I love the, you know, erasing your, for me, the first line, you're saying that it's, you know, obviously, obviously it is visceral and kind of yucky, maybe. But for me, it's like a race. Yucky, that's a great word.
01:26:02
Speaker
For me, it's erasing the self identity in order to try to feel and connect, which is, I think, relatable for so many people. Even if you don't struggle with gender dysphoria or your sexuality, there are times where you might want to, you're so desperate to connect to another person that you just have sex, you just turn yourself into something that does that. You know what I mean? A bag of meat.
01:26:31
Speaker
Yeah, so I don't think that, you know, I think that's relatable to more than just a small group of people, you know what I mean? But anyways, so I said though this song is probably explicitly about gender and body dysmorphia and that experience, for me it has strong ties to depression
01:26:52
Speaker
and my mental health problems. Both are extreme and extremely internal conflicts that leave you feeling pain, shame, and broken. Not to say that the trans experience is
01:27:08
Speaker
Like, I think it's fair to say that that's a painful, a shameful, a broken feeling experience. I'm not saying that it's only that, just those parts. And same with myself and my mental health. Like, I am not only a pained, shameful, and broken person, but those are definitely parts of me. And I sing this song like a worship song for me. I've spent a lot of time with it, mostly while crying,
01:27:37
Speaker
This is a rocking back and forth, eyes closed, hands in the air type song for me. I sing pull all the whales out of me like a prayer, begging for the, begging for the mess of who I am to be bled dry from my body, a body that traps me.
01:27:55
Speaker
I just, I relate to it so much. I don't, you know, exactly. Well, for me, like pull all the whales out of me is like, just get all the shit out of me, I guess. Um, even the whales are very beautiful and everything, but the repetition, this is sung like what, 11 times? No, nine times? Some eight times? Too many.
01:28:21
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, pull all the whales out of me. Did you know, did you know, I ate all the rivers, I ate all the rivers, all of me is water and so are, you know, all of this is, it's a very simple song. And I think all of the layers of harmonies and the same lines over again, for me, it is very like prayer. It's very worship. It's very pain. Kind of the repetition is like,
01:28:50
Speaker
i really mean this thing over and over again i'm really saying this shit and i just love all of me is water and so are you because um whatever it means there's someone else there with you you know and all i want
01:29:08
Speaker
in my life and in myself is to be understood and to have somebody love me through all of my brokenness. And this song just means so much to me. It's one of the most important songs to me. So that's what it is for me. Thank you for sharing. Yes, of course.
01:29:32
Speaker
It's a good song. I really like it. I understand why this is your favorite. Yeah, it's good. Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. Time for Smother? Yes, Smother. Yes, Smother.
'Smother' Inspiration and Themes
01:29:45
Speaker
This song is actually one of the only songs that Jordan has been really direct with its meaning. Then tell me, enlighten me before I say something stupid, please.
01:29:58
Speaker
No, that's why I want you to give your response. Oh, God. OK. Just a little bit. Just a tad. OK. Here's here's what I got from it. Right. First of all, a clever title. The title itself, you can interpret a lot from. And so, you know, it's it's for me, it's like tell tell the audience our title.
01:30:23
Speaker
smother with parentheses around the S. So mother, but then parentheses S in the front. And so, you know, I think of, you know, like a partner, a romantic partner that needs to be mothered, you know, they need a mother, they need to be mothered. But that mothering, you know, often comes out as smothering.
01:30:44
Speaker
Anyway, that's the as far as my analysis of the title goes. This this song. Thank you. Thank you. This song seems to talk about these two people enjoying the last moments of a love that they still have for each other, a sweetness and a gentleness.
01:31:07
Speaker
But that sweetness and that gentleness towards each other, I think it's leaving a sour taste in their mouths. It feels ingenuine to them, or disingenuous. They know how this has to end. They know how this relationship has to end, how this marriage has to end. And they'd rather just enjoy each other and talk about it in the morning. It's a very sweet, very heartbreaking track.
01:31:35
Speaker
And yeah, that's that's yeah, I'll say I'll say more, but that's that's what I got for. I really love that interpretation so much. It kind of makes me want to cry. Oh, no, I'm sorry. Even though I think the the what it's actually about is like kind of more sad. I don't know. So this fuck me then.
01:31:58
Speaker
This song is about a person who was born with a terminal illness who was also coming to terms with their sexuality that Jordan like knew
01:32:14
Speaker
It's about that person. And you can kind of tell within the lyrics where this person is sick, the line, I held him where the sickness was. He said, it's so much easier to believe in nothing. It's so easy to wait impatiently to die.
01:32:35
Speaker
really haunting and sad lyrics this song kind of it doesn't exactly fit this the story of the album not that it doesn't fit within the album but it's just not exactly a part of the the main characters if you will see I knew my interpretation would be super wrong
01:32:58
Speaker
the doctors told him he'd be gone by now his yeah his lungs full of blankets burnt black and bound so you know describing that um i really love the well i love i love all of this song but the part i'm gonna talk about can i talk about it
01:33:18
Speaker
I'll talk about the what this parts of the song what it means for me personally. So the lines he pulled his pants around his ankles and he showed me all the places he went purple because he held too hard his own skin because no one else would touch him. I love this imagery so much this honesty and
01:33:44
Speaker
it breaks my heart and I relate to it so much and I kind of think of you when I like hear this part because it reminds me of you and and kind of the way that you describe yourself I hope that that's not too intimate for me to say on this podcast you're welcome to cut it out but I it just reminds me
01:34:07
Speaker
of you, and it reminds me of myself as well, and just that the narrator says, and I smothered him beastly, because that's just what that person needed, and that just, it just warms me up inside, and it also hurts, you know? Yes, yeah, definitely hurts.
01:34:28
Speaker
I love the lines, I held him where the sickness was and I nursed him through the night. The song really touches me in a very vulnerable place because I relate to the person, though our situations differ greatly. I want to be held where the sickness is and I want to be nursed through the night and I think all of us do. And I also see this part. I was thinking, you know, there's a lot of
01:34:58
Speaker
comparing gender identity, sexuality to sickness, or comparing the turmoil as sickness. And so I like that this fits in that. It's almost metaphorical if you don't think about what inspired the song. Yes. Yeah, I hear you. I mean, I told you what I thought it was.
01:35:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I love your interpretation so much. Well, thank you. Yes, it's a heartbreaking track, but it's also very sweet. Yeah, it's very beautiful. I love the singing song. Oh, is that what that is? Yes. Yeah, it's all throughout the album. That makes sense. See, OK, I wrote down theremin, but I was like, it doesn't sound like a theremin, but I couldn't pinpoint what it was.
01:35:51
Speaker
Yeah, no, all throughout the album. That's what it is.
Neutral Milk Hotel Comparison
01:35:56
Speaker
Okay, so that's a thing that Neutral Milk Hotel does a lot too. Yeah, we can talk about the Neutral Milk Hotel comparisons after.
01:36:07
Speaker
Oh, OK. I just want to say with this track, the part he pulled his pants around his ankles and he showed me all the places he went purple because he held his skin. You said this line earlier. You talked about it. Yes, that line. Sorry. I can't read very well. That's OK.
01:36:32
Speaker
And, you know, again, it's it reminds me, you know, as someone that was reading this album as it all being, you know, imagery for gender dysphoria, you know, this this part stuck out to me a lot. And I think this line is easy to see how it relates to that. But
01:36:53
Speaker
it again made me feel that it was it was very evocative so like i felt that that that deeply you know i mean again you're right it's it's a line that you know i can relate to in some ways but i think this album its purpose
01:37:11
Speaker
I think this is what I started getting as as around this track is that this album's goal is to make you feel a little bit uncomfortable in your own skin. You know, you hear words like that. You hear phrases like that. And I don't know, it just makes you feel a little bit like there's something crawling under your skin. You can't pinpoint it. It just makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable. And, you know, in my head, I was like,
01:37:40
Speaker
You know, oh, maybe that's to get a glimpse of that gender dysphoria that lurks over this entire album. But I don't know. That was just my head. That's a beautiful analysis, Tanner. I really love that. I think that's incredible. I find this I find this album very comforting. But, you know, art is meant to disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed. We live in a society
01:38:10
Speaker
Yeah.
'Wild Dogs Divorce' Contextual Analysis
01:38:13
Speaker
Wild Dogs Divorce. The long awaited sequel to Race Horse Get Married. Yes. Okay. So originally Wild Dogs Divorce was a part of Race Horse Get Married, but I can't remember why Jordan decided to break them up, but it's
01:38:30
Speaker
Obviously the correct and incredible choice and it makes sense with the timeline of the album to put the marriage towards the beginning of the album and the wild dog's divorce towards the end of the album.
01:38:46
Speaker
Let's get divorced here. We start with, we wed behind the old house, offered our skin, removed it from our branches, and let it be curtains. I think that this is like a good little avalanches callback.
01:39:02
Speaker
uh removed her skin from our branches and i asked him where he put the bones this is a fun track this track is more like upbeat and i really love that tone for this song it's like almost melancholic but also it's fun
01:39:20
Speaker
Oh my god, I don't want to get into this if you have some thoughts about certain lines. What stuck out to you? It's not about certain lines. Again, you know, when I was thinking about this album, I thought less about certain lines and more about overall feelings that songs would give me.
01:39:40
Speaker
No, I know. I just wonder if things stick out to you or mean something to you. And I just want to hear that before I go into my little things that stick out to me because, you know, you're the newcomer.
01:39:55
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. As someone that's been interpreting this album as a linear storyline, which, you know, I'm realizing is not at it's not that simple. But so in my, you know, the relationship has reached the breaking point. Right. The divorce is here. It's over. Marriage off, blah, blah, blah. And it almost feels triumphant in this song that the relationship is over.
01:40:25
Speaker
Thank you. That's kind of what I was trying to say with the way that the song sounds. Yes. Yeah. But also in an awful, painful, bittersweet kind of way. Yes. Yeah. I think it's very fitting.
01:40:39
Speaker
Yeah, and it's almost like the narrator has this desperation to get out of this relationship that it almost seems like they feel that they've been thrust into it unwillingly or something. They seem really upset with their ex-partner. I don't know why, but they
01:41:01
Speaker
They seem relieved. I sense some resentment. I mean, the narrator even says that this is something they never wanted. This this wasn't a thing that they wanted. I don't know if that's in hindsight thinking about that or or or what, you know. Yeah, there's there's a lot. There's a lot of lyrics. And again, there's some violent imagery here. We get a little bit of some violent imagery, which I think read it out. What's the violent imagery?
01:41:31
Speaker
Well, the one I'm looking at right now is, and now my bashed head can't sew his blood on my back. We are broke for bricks and the house is quiet. This song is definitely up there for me if I were to rank the tracks of this album. I always love the harmonies across this album that are created with the background singers.
01:41:51
Speaker
again this this track is is haunting it's raw it's real you know it it adds and amplifies the overall texture of this album yeah this this is a great track i really dig it excellent instrumental
01:42:06
Speaker
yes i agree i think it's incredible i love the collective instrumental the collective singing i think it's fun to sing along my favorite part is the wild dogs can i confess i never wanted this marriage coming home to wife and kids and failed science experiments tear down all the laundry lines get the sickness out of me
01:42:31
Speaker
again with the sickness we're not down with it we're trying to get it out yeah yeah get it get it get it out
01:42:42
Speaker
right. And you know, it makes sense. Can I confess, I never wanted this marriage. It didn't seem like the person wanted the marriage and racehorse get married. I love coming home to wife and kids and failed science experiments. Like I really think of that as being, you know, like kind of like transitioning. And when I think of, you know, trans people, I think of the people who bring up like, Oh, that's not
01:43:09
Speaker
natural that's not how biology works like science like that's kind of what i think of but i just love how that line sounds and how it fits i think it's really great and i don't even see i don't think that that's what that's even about because this was written prior to two thousand nine before all of that but that's what it makes me think of
01:43:34
Speaker
But yeah, I don't really read it as resentment. And it totally makes sense that you say that, but I just, it's not what it sounds like to me. And then the part that follows that of them dancing to Cecilia, you know, stomping loudly filled the kitchen up with each other. I just love that. You know, when you're, when you're, you know,
01:43:58
Speaker
divorcing someone, when you're in a relationship with someone, you're in it together. When you're divorcing someone, you're also kind of in it together. And I just love this imagery and this idea of them sharing that moment of dancing together amidst the chaos of the marriage that's falling apart. And, you know, again,
01:44:21
Speaker
not again, but you know, we shaved our heads clean. There's that part of shaving our heads. And then after that, I love he quit his job, pulled his teeth and moved down to the harbor. For me, that's like continuing the mythos of this world. He stole all my money to pay for the lawyers. That makes me laugh because in a divorce,
01:44:44
Speaker
it takes a lot of money and lawyers and i don't think that the person literally stole all the money but that's just what that's what happens when you get a divorce you know and and then and now he's a whale killer in the wasteland for hire which is kinda like a
01:45:02
Speaker
is water reference because the person was pleading to get all the whales out of me and in my mind I'm thinking of kind of like this animated sequence of someone with actual whales inside of them and this little animated guy who's like I'm a whale killer and the person's like okay I'll give you money and you take all the whales out of me like a whale infestation
01:45:26
Speaker
So that's kind of what I'm seeing in this song.
Biblical Narratives and Album Mythos
01:45:33
Speaker
That makes sense, yeah.
01:45:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's almost like the Bible in that there are some real interesting, there's some real interesting mythos in the Bible, you know, like Jonah and the whale, like, you know, the guy was living in a whale, like, okay, well, there's a bunch of whales living in this guy, you know? Damn, I never thought about it like that.
01:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, religion is a big place, a big part of the imagery. And you know, I've never read the Bible. Oh, no, I know. I just like, I don't know, like, like him, her and talking about. Yes, I hear you. That's what I mean. Like not. I know that you're not super familiar with specifically the Bible. But anyways, that's my that's my spiel. Thank you.
01:46:30
Speaker
You're welcome. Second interlude after the get Glandalinian war. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, OK, let me say some things. I really like this instrumental. It's a it's a nice. OK, again, these are my interpretations. Thank you very much. A nice musical break.
01:46:50
Speaker
from the intensity that has just transpired across this album. It has been heavy, it has been a slog, but this little break here, this instrumental, it marks the beginning of the end of the album. Resolution might be in sight, but this track doesn't let you take too much of a break. It keeps you contemplating
01:47:14
Speaker
The role that gender plays in the sexually active relationship it makes you think hey Maybe sex is just this gross thing that two animals do and putting labels on it and or giving it power just creates more gender dysphoria and More opportunities to be uncomfortable with yourself and more fear of your own body
01:47:35
Speaker
Yeah, so I really like the light flute and the guitar. And, you know, these two instruments, they sound, I can hear them in the studio, it sounds like they're separated by 15 feet, you know, they're across the room from each other.
01:47:52
Speaker
And it kind of adds to the disconnect, you know, maybe between the two subjects, or maybe the disconnect between the self and the body. There's a lot of texture in this instrumental, and I really, really, really like it. Again, it reminds me of Black Country New Road, especially when that little violin comes in Good Track.
Interludes and DIY Nature
01:48:14
Speaker
I'm glad you get so much out of the interludes because I really do feel so much about them and hear so much in them. I think they have a lot of personality and I kind of hear it as like the the house talking almost like the house that the the people live in like it's alive the album is alive and breathing and this is like
01:48:37
Speaker
the organs of the body of the house and i really like this one it's so sweet and simple and it's just really beautiful melancholic and kind of calm i don't know if you know or yeah but um the album like wasn't recorded in any like professional studio it was recorded in rooms
01:49:03
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, I could hear it. Yeah. And that's something that I was listening to throughout the recording. You know, I thought when we were talking about racehorse, get married, that you would talk about the the sound of the clatter sound. Yes, things falling. And yes, I I almost mentioned it, but I don't know that it was it was. Yeah, I noticed. Yeah.
01:49:26
Speaker
Yeah, I really like that, that they chose to leave that in. It wasn't, although sounds aren't really intentionally put into the recording, but it is left there on purpose. And I love that, like I said, you know, this album kind of is alive, it's living, it's breathing, you can hear the life in it.
01:49:49
Speaker
yes exactly it's this this is a very texturally rich album and yes it's it's incredible it's incredible diy i think it's like the perfect example of a diy album or like a really great one a really good one yeah yeah i hear you but yeah carpenter slash rebuild the body out of birds
01:50:14
Speaker
So we get a slash.
Metaphysical and Existential Themes
01:50:16
Speaker
I don't know if this, usually when I see a slash in a song title, I usually think that refers to this song being a double track, right? We're getting two songs here. I wasn't able to pinpoint a very clear separation between the two. However, what I do feel about this song is that it kind of wraps up all that has just transpired.
01:50:41
Speaker
A lot of violent imagery on this one as well. Talking about basically leaving your body, you know, your skin is just a prison. People always say what's on the inside that counts, right? Then why do we give a fuck what we look like or what genitals we have or what pronouns we have? We're all just bags of meat. So, you know, fuck you. I'm glad we're divorced. But it's pretty stupid that it happened the way that it did.
01:51:13
Speaker
Maybe the relationship is salvageable if we just leave these bodies. It's another haunting track. It's solemn. It's looking up at you from below. It's still uncomfortable and it's so great at achieving that feeling. It's a very good song. Yeah.
01:51:33
Speaker
This is definitely an excellent song. It's another one that I have cried to, which is interesting because I think the beginning sounds so different from the end and it really goes to this place that you wouldn't really expect, I think, in the beginning. But yeah, it is describing a partner who
01:51:55
Speaker
is dealing with their trans existence and there's like, I feel like there's so much here. Do you hear what I'm saying, where I'm talking about like, how it's like kind of like, or just all meatbags? Like that's what I get from this song.
01:52:12
Speaker
Oh, that's right. Sorry. You said things after that and then I forgot. I, I understand that. It's funny to hear your interpretations because I think I've like lived with these songs for so long and lived with my specific interpretations and how I relate to them that I'm like, what are you, what, how do you, now I have to like, I'm trying to look at it from your perspective and it's just like putting myself in a different body. You know, I, I don't know how to do that because
01:52:41
Speaker
You know for me this song is like the whole let's leave our bodies. I freaking just
01:52:49
Speaker
cry to that and again this is a song that's not about suicide but um the let's leave our bodies for me i think about like death and also i'm so comforted by it i'm just like thinking about where i've been when i've like listened to this and it's it's so comforting and painful the way that the music comes in after let's leave our bodies
01:53:14
Speaker
and pull our skin from these bones and this house, from these homes. I- Violent imagery, you can't tell me it's not there.
01:53:25
Speaker
I don't see it as being violent but I know it is visceral. I relate to this so much especially inhabiting a body. I know again this is not this line and this song is not about chronic pain but as somebody who deals with chronic pain like there have been times where I'd love to leave my body and
01:53:47
Speaker
that that's part of the point though is like it's problematic to inhabit a body and I think it's said with so much love the proposal to leave our bodies it has so many meanings like you could interpret so many meanings from it but I'm sure it's like you know let's accept like I don't know move forward I don't see I can't even put it into words
01:54:17
Speaker
No, I- I- Yeah, no, I understand you though.
01:54:21
Speaker
yeah but um you'll be happy to know that i do not understand some of the lines in this song in the beginning you slice away your arms like bread to butter with your semen i said i'm really not sure what this means and i sat there for a good few like seconds like really trying to put it together and my brain was was like i can't do it today right now
01:54:48
Speaker
And I just don't know what that is. Yeah. But it's fun. What a line. What a line. I know. They have such fun lines. I really like it. It's so funny that you call that fun. Well, yeah, because it's like, what is that?
01:55:06
Speaker
Well, to me, you slice away your arms like bread, I think of self harm. And to butter with your semen, like, I don't know, referring to semen as butter, it's, I don't know, the imagery that I get from those lines are very different from what you're getting. I'm getting an image of pain. So
01:55:28
Speaker
It's incredible. I never thought of it as self-harm. I was thinking literally bread. I was thinking too much about the bread. I think I just have like animated the imagery too much that it's like animated. It's like, I'm so sorry. I'm having trouble rendering words. Hyperbolic. It's like hyperbolic imagery, but
01:55:55
Speaker
I really love the line because in the dark we all sound the same our bodies are blistered from kneading I relate to that an animal sister boy could I have kept you is there a way of wood to protect you I just I think that's really like nurturing and I I really like those those lines a lot they stick out to me and I just relate to them they're little nuggets of gold I think little nuggets yeah I hear you
01:56:24
Speaker
More singing. Saw. Oh, and the. Yes. I don't know if that's violin in the end. Yeah. And I mean, that's what I hear. Yeah. Just beautiful. Just everybody go listen to this album. Give me your thoughts. Thank you. Yeah. But we still have one more track. I know. I just was saying like you just listen to it because obviously we can't just like we can't tell you how it sounds exactly. Yes. Yeah.
Final Track Acceptance
01:56:51
Speaker
Yes, so we've reached the end, the last track. 1990 was a long year and we are all out of heat, right? We're all out of hot water now. Hot water, thank you.
01:57:05
Speaker
1990 was a long year and we are all out of hot water now. The closer to the album, before you say anything again, I want to say my interpretation. I'm just going to kind of read my notes here because I kind of wrote a lot here, but this is a very somber track. It feels like you're down in the depths. It seems like the two of these people are still on speaking terms. They're still talking to each other and maybe it's out of necessity.
01:57:34
Speaker
uh oh they say the name of the album on this track i still don't know what divorce lawyers i shaved my head means but we can talk about that in a second um but again you know even without knowing the meaning of certain things or certain lyrics i'm still able to uh feel the emotions that are being presented here
01:57:53
Speaker
And I think that's what good poetry does in general. You don't need to be in an AP English class to get what's going on. You just have to understand human emotion and read the vibes. And that's what I did across a lot of this album.
01:58:10
Speaker
Um, even without knowing meanings for some things, I still get it. It still resonates with me and leaves me with a lot to think about. And again, on this song, you know, we get, you know, the, the, the not so pretty and blunt descriptions of sexual experiences that these two have shared. And they're still using sex as a coping mechanism to get through this difficult time. Um, despite never sounding like
01:58:39
Speaker
the sex has been enjoyable for either of them. At least across this album, it hasn't seemed enjoyable. They've only talked about the ugly parts of sex. And now they share this house, the narrators talking about how they keep warm when all the things that can warm them
01:59:00
Speaker
are gone. They're remaining together sort of out of necessity. Their future is unclear. It seems like a tense but loving arrangement between these two. They don't seem happy, but they seem to be accepting of the situation. And I think, you know, this is a great way to end a concept album. And, you know, I think it keeps you wanting more.
01:59:24
Speaker
which doesn't always happen, especially after how heavy this album feels to me and how much of a break I needed in between listens. But this closing track leaves you wanting more, which, which, yeah, it's good. That's very beautiful. See, I love all the notes. I'm glad you're not making fun of me for my interpretations. No, of course not. I really like your interpretations and they're, you know, they're personal. They're personal. Yes, yeah.
01:59:54
Speaker
Do you have any questions, any comments, any concerns about anything specifically in the song? There's a lot to the song, like a lot of the songs on this album. And going back and knowing kind of the war story that's being told across the album, a lot of these lyrics I can take more literally now going back to them. Well, like give me examples.
02:00:22
Speaker
Well, like they they they are literally running out of heat. They're in this house after a war. It's like post-apocalyptic and and they are staying in this home and they're just trying to survive like literally.
02:00:37
Speaker
right yeah i think that it is metaphorical and it is also literal in the sense of the war but of course i think all of that is metaphorical as well that's why it's really good but yeah so they need heat and they're wondering how we're gonna how they're gonna stay warm
02:00:57
Speaker
How do we get warm? How do we stay warm? Which is a very important question to ask. So, of course, we gotta talk about the very direct lines in the beginning. You are a girl with a cock. I am a boy who can't talk. Going back to the feeling of being illiterate, but also unable to decipher your own gender.
02:01:25
Speaker
you know the their partner the other character kind of knows that they're a girl and the narrator is you know questioning what they are unable to give themselves a word um which is
02:01:43
Speaker
very true to Jordan as though during their relationship they began to kind of question their own gender and not understand what it was but at that time they just did not have the word non-binary even trans I'm sure at that time transgender wasn't exactly everywhere you know
02:02:07
Speaker
I think it's interesting with that line there, how the narrator, when referring to their partner, talks about their sex organs. And when they refer to themselves, they talk about their head or their personality. It's just interesting how they see their partner and how they see themselves. There's an interesting juxtaposition there.
02:02:35
Speaker
That's a really good point. Yes. Thank you for that. I didn't really notice that in the way that you just put it into words, but yes, really great. Love it. But yeah, what you were saying with their like together, you know, we share the kitchen table and vomit the newspaper back and forth. That sounds like stuff that you do in a marriage. So it's kind of like, you know. But it seems like they're doing this out of necessity because it's the apocalypse outside. They don't want to be doing this with each other.
02:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, but I don't think that it's that they don't want to. But there's still a sweetness, right? Yeah, I think it's more amicable than you make it seem in my opinion. Like it says, I don't know, but I can talk to you. I'd like a word with you. There's that saying, you know, still wanting a word with them that fits into
02:03:26
Speaker
Not that fits into society, but just that fits them and there's a word for it. And then, of course, divorce lawyers. I shaved my head. She shaved her head. We are new. I love these lines and that the way and the way that they are sung because, oh, this is what it reminds me of. OK, you know, the meme, this is not going to make sense for my parents, but you know, the meme. What is it? I I threw up. Yes. Like when you go to your your mom.
02:03:56
Speaker
And you're like standing in the doorway. You're standing in the doorway and you're like, I threw up. Yes. And it's like, uh, like help me mom. Like I have to, you know, you help me clean this up.
02:04:09
Speaker
That kind of reminds me, these lines remind me of that, in that they're saying to the divorce lawyers who are very much, when you think of a divorce lawyer or a lawyer in general, very normal, plain, black and white type of person in society. And so here are these two freaks and they're like, we shaved our heads, the marriage is done, okay?
02:04:37
Speaker
You know, we're new. We don't got to do all that like paperwork, like, you know, uh-oh kind of thing. Like trying to explain this very like, so here's what happened. So my partner is actually a girl with a cog and I shaved my head. She shaved her head. We have no identity. We're not real people. So, you know, marriage doesn't really work out for not real people. Can you just like fix that, please? Thank you.
02:05:05
Speaker
I mean, the concept of divorce lawyers and marriage, but after what these two have gone through and realizing that their identities, their bodies, their genitals, none of it matters.
02:05:20
Speaker
Right. I love it so much. It's all just constructs. Yes, exactly. So I feel like you get it when you said, I still don't know what that means. I feel like you totally get it. Well, you helped me get there. You helped me get there. Yes. And I love these lines. She pulls her pants down a little and says, do you see where I used to be a boy?
02:05:40
Speaker
And this conversation is so interesting to me because the narrator says I've had it in my mouth, I swallowed the evidence down and the children you wanted around, they've stayed in my stomach to drown.
02:05:55
Speaker
It's so like explicit. But then she panics and says, this is all I have in my hands. I want to forget who I am. I want to fuck and forget who I am. And I think that that's like relatable to non trans people, but also
02:06:16
Speaker
going back to like the shame of trying to have intimacy when you're ashamed of your body or don't feel like you're in your body or like just that entire moment just Summarizes gender dysphoria body dysmorphia like it's all right there like this this this person is like here's my boy genitals and
02:06:41
Speaker
and um i hate it i want to forget who i am i want to forget that this is who i am you know and you know resorting to to to sex to forget that probably not the healthiest but yeah but you know it's real it is what it is it is real it's real yes you're right and so they're trying to keep warm and i think that this is kind of a resolution song and that where the boy who can't talk is kind of
02:07:10
Speaker
has reached some sort of, not conclusion, but understands that maybe they don't understand their own gender. And the girl who is trans, she's kind of at that conclusion, but it doesn't conclude, you know? You're still, you have to deal with that now.
02:07:29
Speaker
you're never done evolving you're never done figuring out what you do with yourself with your thoughts with your emotions with your life and so at the end it's this you know how do we get warm how do we stay warm how do we feel like a person how do we exist how do we be and i think that that's important and
02:07:57
Speaker
The narrator questions where did you put my autobiography where did you put all the wood for the winter and throughout the album the characters or their narrator the you know the boy who built an aviary is trying to create his own geographies on identity and
02:08:18
Speaker
keeping track writing his autobiography and at first I thought oh the autobiography is set in the same line the same vein as wood for winter as if you know like they're just as important but then I thought you know it's as if they're synonymous as in you know
02:08:36
Speaker
my autobiography, Who I Am, is the wood for the winter. It gets me through the winter. It keeps me warm. It keeps me going. It keeps me alive. So what do you think about that?
02:08:51
Speaker
What a way to what a way to close out an album. Let me tell you, it it wasn't it wasn't an easy time for me, to be honest, because just of how how much weight I felt from this album, I often had to take multiple days breaks in between listenings.
Album's Emotional Weight
02:09:11
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. This album is just very, very visceral for me. It's very. Yeah, it's a hard listen for me. It's it's it's a lot.
02:09:21
Speaker
going on but it's it's great it's beautiful it is I wanted to make a note you know that the last the closing track 1990 was a long year and we are all out of hot water an early draft of that song was for a writing assignment while Jordan was studying creative writing and they received a bad grade because their teacher thought that it was supposed to be shocking I see
02:09:50
Speaker
but it is not. And this album is not intended to be shocking or off-putting. When Jordan's friend heard some of the songs from the album in the early works of the album, they were kind of shocked and suggested that they bring other people into the album.
02:10:17
Speaker
to soften the blow of the bluntness, because not in that it's so shocking, but it's so honest and that it would be too painful, not painful, it'd be too hard to listen to if it was just Jordan. And so that is what led to the Horse Museum. And they asked some people to join in on the album. And I think it was the right decision. And I think it's so impactful
02:10:47
Speaker
and I can't imagine it being anything other than what it is but for those listening and if you listen to the album you know this is not supposed to be like shocking and it's just supposed to be real and honest and I hope that if anyone out there like listens to it and listens to this that you you keep an open mind and you keep an open heart and
02:11:12
Speaker
yeah just listen with your heart yeah this is this is something that is very important to me important to the community it's a big part of my heart and my soul and um yeah i really appreciate you sharing it with me and with everyone listening i appreciate you listening to it and giving me your thoughts um what was your what were your favorite songs
02:11:40
Speaker
Um, well, avalanches, obviously, and, um, oh, jar head, oh, wife. That's right. And wild dogs, a divorce. Good one. And organs for oceans is probably towards the top of my list.
02:11:57
Speaker
Okay, okay, cool. I know that you don't like, I don't know if you can give it like a score or like where would you put it?
Final Recommendations and Next Episode Preview
02:12:05
Speaker
For you personally though, like as your tastes. That's the thing. I feel so weird putting a number on it. Like, I don't know. It doesn't feel like that kind of thing. It's like putting a number, like reading someone's diary. Like I'm like...
02:12:20
Speaker
I don't know. It just feels weird to do. It's good. It's very good. And I enjoy listening to it. And it's a hard listen. And I think it's necessary listening. And I think everyone out there should listen to it. Well, that's like a rating in itself to me. That's kind of like classic status.
02:12:42
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. But it's it's it's one that I probably could only listen to like once a year. I mean, avalanches I listen to all the time. And I mean, I love Carrie and Lowell, but I'm not going to listen. I don't listen to that at all unless I'm really going through it.
02:13:03
Speaker
You know, Mother I Sober from the new Kendrick Lamar album, like that's that's a really, really hard track to listen to, but it's obviously great. So it's like, yeah, it's like that. Yes, it's like Kendrick Lamar. Almost exactly like Kendrick Lamar. I'd like to see Kendrick, you know, maybe maybe sample do a flip some Jordan Mason. That would be pretty cool. Yeah, that would be goaded.
02:13:30
Speaker
Coated with the sauce. Thank you guys so much for listening. What are we listening to next episode?
02:13:41
Speaker
Um, you said something when we were preparing for the mollusk episode, you said that it was an easy album and that, and that, I don't know why that stuck with me. So, um, I'm going to go a little bit less easy on you this time, I guess. Um, and we're gonna do the two set 2007 album untrue by burial.
02:14:07
Speaker
so get ready for some discussion on some burial i am so ready okay you don't sound surprised about this pic i'm not i figure that it was coming really
02:14:21
Speaker
Yeah, I. Yeah. Damn it. Well, you. You knew the divorce lawyers was coming, so it's only fair. It's true. All right. Well, I'm excited to talk about it. We'll get to it and it's going to be good. Thank you for showing me this one. You're the best outro. You're the best. You're the best. Darkness and redness and whiteness. Do you ever watch Tobuscus? No, I was like, I was like.