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From Homeless to Health Tech CEO: Len May’s Doomer-to-Bloomer Transformation in Precision Wellness
3 Plays2 months ago
Today’s guest is Len May, a true Doomer-to-Bloomer success story. From being homeless to leading three successful corporate exits, Len is now the CEO of a global precision health and wellness company specializing in DNA-based solutions. He’s not only been published in PubMed but is also a bestselling author and international keynote speaker—sharing stages with some of the world's biggest names.
🔹 Rock Bottom to Resilience:
Len’s journey wasn’t easy—he’s faced homelessness and a brutal divorce—but these challenges became the fuel for his transformation. Through relentless personal development and a refusal to accept limitations, Len carved out a powerful life path rooted in purpose.
🔹 Mindset & Mission:
A champion of freedom over conformity, Len doesn’t believe in being boxed in by "the system." His daily routines, designed to support his ADD, help him stay focused, while his daughter remains his proudest accomplishment.
His message? “This storm will pass, but action is required.”
🔹 Legacy & Vision:
Looking ahead, Len envisions himself as a visionary leader in personalized health and wellness, helping millions take back control of their biology and well-being. His favorite book? Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl—a fitting choice for someone who’s turned pain into purpose.
🔹 Find Len Here:
YouTube: Len’s Interview
Website & DNA Solutions: endodna.com
Email: len@endodna.com
Phone: 267-977-5769
Address: 4116 W Magnolia Blvd, Suite 100
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Transcript
Introduction and Len's Journey
00:00:00
All Trews ONLY
And we're live. Welcome back to the Doomer Bloomer podcast with Will Nemo. We are talking about the hero's journey, people's Doomer to Bloomer cycles, people who have been through the ringer of life, come back the other side, changed person with new perspectives and stories to share.
00:00:28
All Trews ONLY
Today on the podcast, I have a gentleman named Len May, and he went from being homeless to starting his own cannabis health industry business, true success story.
Early Life and Discovery of Cannabis
00:00:47
All Trews ONLY
On that note, I'm just going to let Len introduce himself. How are you doing today, Len?
00:00:52
Len May
I'm great, Will. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.
00:00:56
All Trews ONLY
You're welcome. I noticed a lot of the albums in your studio there, The Eagles. I see some books, Amy Winehouse.
00:01:09
All Trews ONLY
Just take it pretty much from the beginning. read on your profile that you were were homeless and and then tell me tell me how that like I've never been homeless so it's it's kind of hard for me to relate but like how how did that come about?
00:01:35
Len May
I'll take you back a little further so give you some context. I was the kind of kid that was sitting in class. I'm an immigrant. I was born in a country called Lithuania, and I came to US my parents when I was like six years old.
00:01:48
Len May
I grew up in Philadelphia. And when I was a kid, would sit in class and a teacher would call me and my mind would be elsewhere. I really was floating.
00:01:59
Len May
And I became disruptive after a while because I was sort of bored. And I was diagnosed with ADD, I guess, without being hyperactive when I was in my teens, maybe around 14 or so.
00:02:15
Len May
And I was put on prescription medication. And I can't say didn't work for me. depends how you define work. I mean, I think I could focus, but it took away my sense of self, my connection to my emotional self.
00:02:31
Len May
So... I was going to school and I was hanging out with some older kids. And they asked me if I want to smoke a cigarette. I said, yeah, sure. I mean, it's cool. I'll smoke a cigarette with the older kids. That's the cool thing to do.
00:02:45
Len May
I never questioned why they had one cigarette. They had one cigarette. They passed around. was four of us, I think. It got to me. took a drag. It didn't taste like a cigarette that I tasted before. And so I took another drag, maybe coughed.
00:02:58
Len May
They were laughing at me. Like, what's up? And they put cannabis in the cigarette. So when I went back to class, the windows that were all over open, like, you know, like your browser windows, they sort of narrowed and I could focus.
00:03:15
Len May
And that sort of became my go-to medicine. I got rid of all the other medication. I started consuming cannabis. I never told anybody it was medicine because first all, was illegal. never thought about it medicine at that time.
00:03:28
Len May
And my parents would catch me over the years when I was my late teens. I think like senior high school, I was sleeping and my parents, I had these conversations. My dad was like, don't bring in the house. Don't bring in the house.
00:03:41
Len May
Okay. So I would leave it. I like a little pouch underneath my seat, my car. And I had like a little bit of cannabis and maybe some pipe, whatever, rolling papers. So I come downstairs and my parents are sitting there with my pouch on the kitchen table.
Struggles and Music as a Lifeline
00:03:56
Len May
And they're like, oh, and I said, you went through my car. And so I told you not to bring in the house. I said, it wasn't the house.
00:04:02
Len May
It was in the car, but it's still my property, back and forth, back and forth. So what we going to do with you? And I said, what do you mean? There's nothing wrong with me. So my parents were like, what if we call the cops?
00:04:13
Len May
What's going to happen? So nothing's going to happen. It's not big deal. They called cops and two female officers came over. They threw out my cannabis. oh, we'll take you in. I'm like, all right, we'll take me in.
00:04:27
Len May
So they ended up not because, you know, was a misdemeanor. was nothing major there. But the one woman said, if it was my kid, I'd kick him the curb. And when they left, my dad said, you have five minutes to get your shit.
00:04:39
Len May
So I went to grab suitcase, piled some clothes in there, had a car, a little bit of money, uh, maybe a few hundred dollars.
00:04:50
Len May
And I, uh, went to, uh, so I'm just going to define homeless. What that really means in my, I didn't have a tent. I didn't sleep on the street. I slept in motel rooms for a while.
00:05:02
Len May
So that was my, uh, that was being homeless. Uh, like it, Hourly motel rooms, I would sleep on with my clothes on on top of the, you know, the top of the covers, then I was dating this girl, she let me crash her house for a while.
00:05:17
Len May
And then our parents said have to go. I would couch serve for different friends. And, you know, over time, the parents would say, have to So my grandmother allowed me to stay on her couch after I went through all the friends.
00:05:32
Len May
And then I was, you were speaking about my records and my music. So I was a big music person and I finished high school and started, you know, wanted to go to college and I started university, Temple University.
00:05:47
Len May
And I would go to this record store called Tower Records for, you know, old heads, they probably remember Tower Records, and they had opening for a cashier. So I got a job as a cashier, my grandmother gave me the security deposit money that I needed for an apartment. So I got my own apartment.
00:06:04
Len May
And it was a just really big shithole in the basement of this building. And every time there were rain, my apartment would flood. So they come to the office, they would shop back the water, but still smelled like mold because all underneath the carpet, we're all rotting out.
00:06:20
Len May
Every single kind of roach you could possibly imagine. And yeah, so that was sort of my homeless kind of experience. So that's why wanted kind of frame it and define it correctly for your audience.
00:06:34
All Trews ONLY
No, yeah, and I guess those are fairly formative memories for you. Myself, growing up in Canada, relatively conservative background as well, I probably wasn't as privy to what legalized and decriminalized marijuana would look like.
00:06:41
Len May
Mm-hmm.
00:06:57
All Trews ONLY
To me, it wasn't really a part of my life. I kind of do
00:07:03
All Trews ONLY
recognize the ADD portion of it. it's I guess it's something that afflicted you early on. And I also recognize being put on medication that disassociates you from who you are as a person.
00:07:20
All Trews ONLY
So do those early formative... experiences and then ultimately moving in with your grandmother going to university.
00:07:30
All Trews ONLY
Did that start steering you towards being an entrepreneur and like not not being part of the regular normal crowd of people, I guess I would put it on it.
ADD as a Superpower
00:07:41
Len May
Well, so there's a couple of things you said there.
00:07:41
All Trews ONLY
Like.
00:07:44
Len May
First of all, you know, I want to talk about ADD in general. So
00:07:49
All Trews ONLY
hmm.
00:07:49
Len May
we label people with disorders. You have a disorder.
00:07:53
All Trews ONLY
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:07:54
Len May
When you have a disorder, that means that the perception that there's something wrong with you. And ADD should not be a disorder. It can be a superpower for some people. What it really means is that I'm born with depletion of dopamine.
00:08:11
Len May
So because I'm not producing enough of my own dopamine, I'm looking for that stimulation of dopamine hits from exogenous external stimuli.
00:08:21
Len May
So if I'm actually getting hit of dopamine, that's why, you know, people with ADD or ADHD, they have these squirrel moments where, you know, you can't focus, you'll go to the next one, next one, because my brain is always looking for the next hit of dopamine.
00:08:36
Len May
When I'm sitting in class, and I'm not paying attention, that means that I'm not stimulated. The subject is not interesting. So not producing enough dopamine. So I'm constantly, you know, trying to, I'm tuning out, because I'm looking for that dopamine, or we're really, so there's a dependence of dopamine, you know, lot of drugs, exogenous drugs are produced, they bind to our dopamine receptors and squirt dopamine, like cocaine, for instance.
00:08:54
All Trews ONLY
Mm-hmm.
00:09:02
Len May
So When I had these scroll moments, I'm always looking for the next hit of dopamine. Now, if you know how to utilize that as a superpower, you have the unique ability to multitask effectively, which most people focus on one thing. And the other thing that I have a unique ability of doing is hyper-focusing.
00:09:22
Len May
So hyper focusing on the right thing is also superpower. So I'll give you an example. Video games are designed for a lot of stimulation of dopamine. So kids that have ADD or ADHD, they sit there for eight hours a day playing video games because it's constantly feeding that stimulation of dopamine.
00:09:42
Len May
But if you can channel that into something that's more, I'm not saying negative positive, but something a bigger contribution to the greater good, now you can utilize that same hyper focus and do something else. So for me, as an example, I would paint.
00:09:58
Len May
So an oil paint, I can sit in the studio for six, seven hours, it doesn't feel like I'm there all day because I'm so hyper-focused because I have this exchange.
00:10:09
Len May
As I'm doing something, I'm getting dopamine. As I'm doing something, reinforces that. And when that happens is the time goes by, but I can hyper-focus. So that's sort of the superpower of and ADD.
00:10:21
Len May
It doesn't have to be labeled as a disorder. There's a lot of things that people kind of label with these diseases, and it really is not the case. So you got to frame it correctly.
00:10:32
Len May
So the whole entrepreneurial thing, once you know that you have this sort of framework of when I was growing up, I wanted to be So music was my thing. And it was sort my solace. I grew up in a very abusive household.
00:10:46
Len May
My dad was abusive to me. So my room was my sanctuary. I couldn't sleep at night. So it just, I'm old. So I had this little bootstrap. And I had this cassette recorder and I would put up to the speaker and I would start making mixtapes and I would cut the cassettes and make them with tape. And I would write down the songs and it was my thing. It was my hobby. So I didn't know what that led to. And I really wanted to do something music. So I discovered like these music producers, like people like Rick Rubin, for instance, who wasn't a musician per se, but he was an influence in music. And I wanted to do that for my career.
00:11:24
Len May
And my parents actually called in a psychiatrist and had an intervention for me. And they said, if you are going to go to school, you need a steady job. And they convinced me at that time when I was going through my figuring out what I want to do, they convinced me to be a physical therapist. It's going steady job. So when I went to school, I went to physical therapy
Entrepreneurial Beginnings
00:11:44
Len May
school. That was my goal.
00:11:46
Len May
Now, the one thing that my dad told me when the internet first started, this is before like, you you know, any of the like Yahoo's or anything else. We had this Mozilla browser that way back in the day, I would say late eighties, maybe 88, 87, something that, but my dad's like, if you can ever get into this internet thing, I think it's going be huge.
00:12:11
Len May
So while I was going to physical therapy school, I, I was friends with this guy and he's like, Hey, my brother has this company. He doesn't know what to do with it. He's really, all he does is sit in his attic, order pizza, drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, but he programs on this thing called X windows.
00:12:28
Len May
Talk to him. I don't know. So I met with the, his brother and, uh, He was making sort of these websites, but they were really, really early.
00:12:38
Len May
And said, this is kind of cool. What are you trying to do with this? He's like, well, I want to build this and maybe have people build this virtual mall for people. I said, well, how are you selling it? said, I have no idea.
00:12:50
Len May
So long story, a little bit longer, we became partners. And while I was going to physical therapy school, I opened up a company that did a these websites and it was called future world and i would go after school i would go to meet like small businesses with a with a black and white 96 broadband modem laptop and would explain to people this is what your website can look like it's just a page in a virtual mall this is your email So I got the entrepreneurial bug at that time and ended up at some point exiting that company, then doing something in music.
00:13:26
Len May
Also, ah that was an interesting time. wasn't really... a fruitful venture with music at the time because there transition to music industry.
00:13:36
Len May
And my girlfriend at the time, who's now my ex-wife, she said, you have to get a real job. So I went to work for, got a job at Price Waterhouse, which was at the time the big six consulting company. It was management consulting side.
00:13:50
Len May
Then they merged with Cooper. So it was a PwC. Then I went to work for a venture capital company. The point of this whole thing is I'm a seeker. So I'm always on this journey to try to figure out what I'm here for, what my purpose is.
00:14:00
All Trews ONLY
Mm-hmm.
00:14:05
Len May
But also, tend to not sit in a place that's not fulfilling for a long period of time, even if it's financially lucrative to me, because I'm always trying to find that fit.
00:14:16
Len May
What is my purpose? What am I contributing? What am I receiving? So, you know, went to work for a venture capital company, then I decided that I want to do real
Cannabis Industry and Genetic Exploration
00:14:24
Len May
estate. So I became real estate agent, left my job, was making really good money. Real estate, wasn't at first, but then I did really well. was the managing director of a company called Keller Williams, Keller Williams Commercial.
00:14:39
Len May
So I was very... financially successful, if you can define it that way in real estate, my ex wife was an actress. So real estate is an entrepreneurial venture. Also, you have to do a lot of different things that a big team that was working with me.
00:14:55
Len May
But we were in Philly, we were going back and forth to LA. And then I remember she had this meeting with his director and she came out crying. And he's like, He told her that if she really is serious about acting, she has to be in L.A.
00:15:11
Len May
It's pretty obvious. But at that time, there was a lot of New York actors. And that's what she was trying to do. So said, OK, we'll move. And a year later, basically, we ended up moving to L.A.
00:15:22
Len May
Well, I moved them out here, my daughter, my ex-wife. And for year, I was going back and forth. wrapped up my business. Didn't know what I was going to do. California is not a reciprocal state for real estate with Pennsylvania, but I was known for real estate. So I was sitting in a real estate office in LA and just sort of consulting.
00:15:40
Len May
And these guys walked in, they want to open up an alternative pharmacy. And the person was helping them. He's like, don't really understand what these guys want. They're being really cryptic. Talk to them. So I asked them what they want to do, alternative pharmacy.
00:15:58
Len May
You have to be compliant with Prop 215, SB 420. They didn't have any of that stuff. So I helped them. And once I did, we got a place and they offered me a partnership.
00:16:07
Len May
So we ended up opening four more dispensaries under the same brand. And the entrepreneurial story continues, but also this curiosity. And it could be ADD, could be just my curious mind where – I started noticing two people will consume the same exact chemical variety of cannabis and a completely different experience.
00:16:30
Len May
And in that, I was just like, okay, I'm going to try to see what I can find. Why is this happening? And my AD kicked in. I hyper-focused and I started trying to find out why this is happening. So I came across a video by guy named Kevin McKernan, who was one of first people to genetically sequence the plant, the plant itself.
00:16:51
Len May
And I started reaching out to him. So I was told that, know, Kevin has 30 minutes. I'm in L.A. He's in San Francisco to meet with me. So I got plane, flew to San Francisco, met him for three hours.
00:17:04
Len May
And he was like, we have to do something together, come on board. which I did eventually as a consultant at this company. was called Medicinal Genomics. And my job basically was to go around the US, a little bit of Canada as well, meet with the top cultivators, get plant material from them, bring it to my lab, extract the DNA, and sequence it.
00:17:26
Len May
So we created the first genetic library of chemical varieties, chemovirus and cultivars of cannabis, and it's called Canapedia with a K, and we put it on the blockchain so there's a chain of custody for each one.
00:17:39
Len May
So I learned a lot about extraction of DNA and genetics on that side, but the parent company of medicinal genomics was called Cortigen Life Sciences. And they did pharmacogenomics, which is the study of how drugs affect individual bodies and also drug interactions between each other, which is really some of them are inducers, some them are inhibitors.
00:18:02
Len May
So that's your pharmacist probably knows that as well. So I got really into the human genetics side. And my light bulb moment was one day said, well, we have plant genetics here. We have human genetics here. Let's bring those two together and guide people to a personalized experience they can avoid an adverse event.
00:18:20
Len May
They really didn't have any interest in it. They closed down the human side. So in 2017, I formed EndoDNA and was able to bring some scientists with me.
00:18:31
Len May
And that was my first foray into that business of precision health and wellness. And when we met with the FDA, they asked us, what is the purpose of your test?
00:18:42
Len May
And we said to help people either avoid mitigate a possible adverse event. So that was the overall concept of the company initially when we started. And we got patents on our first patent.
00:18:54
Len May
The review seed was on the use of DNA to make recommendations associated with the endocannabinoid system. And then we expanded from there to do more to help healthcare professionals use our platform for precision health wellness for things like patients,
00:19:10
Len May
perimenopause, menopause, female hormone health, male hormone health. We have a nutrigenomic report for personalized supplements, vitamins, nutrients, skin. So you have personalized healthcare, but the overall goal is to build the world's largest database on efficacy.
00:19:25
Len May
And we use machine learning. We have a patent on that too, to help guide healthcare professionals so they can make informed decisions and more personalized decisions to help treat their patients.
00:19:36
Len May
And that's sort of the trajectory. with skipping a lot of ups and downs, but that's where we are today.
00:19:44
All Trews ONLY
Sounds like you're a polymath. It doesn't sound like you're just content to live in one discipline, which is
00:19:54
Len May
Dude, it's so mind-blowing that you just said that. I was doing a talk yesterday to a big training with a very large company. The guy that introduced me said, I'm a polymath.
00:20:06
Len May
And reading that book, by the way. And he also said, he's a polymath autodidactic. I've never heard that before either. It's so funny that you brought that up.
00:20:17
All Trews ONLY
Autodidactic is near photographic memory, right?
00:20:21
Len May
Well, this is what was explained to me and there's different definitions of it. If you're a polymath, you're basically sponging up different things and learning different things from different people or books, et cetera.
00:20:35
Len May
But autodidactic polymath masters those things to a certain level, like a Leonardo da Vinci, for instance. I have no idea. I've never even heard that term before.
00:20:48
Len May
So I'm not sure if I'm a master, but I'll tell you what I really found as my superpower. If I'm really interested in something, it becomes almost obsessive. And I think one of things that I have a tendency to do really well is take really complex...
00:21:05
Len May
scientific information, for instance, and be able to regurgitate that and explain it in the way that I would understand it to like, you know, a 10 year old or 12 year old. So I don't know what that means.
00:21:17
Len May
Because this new terminology for me, but I've always been able to do that.
00:21:22
All Trews ONLY
Well, I find the way you talk is extremely relatable because I'm also a polymath or I consider myself one. You know, there's for me, there's never there's never an end to learning anything. Learning is always just been a part of my life.
00:21:39
All Trews ONLY
But I was also the same person like you that I I didn't learn very well sitting in a classroom, having someone else feed me the information. If I want to learn something, I just do a quick search, find the resources, and then within 48 72 hours, I'm a relative expert or a relative expert on topic.
00:22:03
Len May
that.
00:22:03
All Trews ONLY
And for me, that's led me from mastering languages to computer programming to being a self-taught engineer.
00:22:13
All Trews ONLY
So You know, and if I don't know somebody, I'm like you, I'm going to seek out somebody with the information that I don't have. I'm going to get their knowledge downloaded into me.
00:22:24
All Trews ONLY
And then I'm going to least have a cursory understanding of what they're talking about. And that's just been me my entire life. So.
00:22:33
Len May
Yeah, I've always sort of said I hate to study, but love to learn.
00:22:38
All Trews ONLY
hmm.
00:22:39
Len May
Even like my daughter makes fun me. like, you watch these weird shows on TV. I'm like, I love to watch experts. Somebody that takes a piece of leather and makes something out of it that I don't know how to make.
00:22:51
Len May
I'm just infatuated by that. I'm like, holy shit. I'm learning this stuff. I'm not sure I want I'm going to actually do it. But now I understand how to how that's done. And that's the thing that like is really attractive to me.
00:23:03
Len May
That's how I learn very similar to what you're saying.
00:23:07
All Trews ONLY
Yeah. And then to, to also, know, to become a consultant and have multiple exits from different fields.
00:23:18
All Trews ONLY
And, you know, I'm, I'm sure, you know, being divorced probably isn't, or hasn't been that easy. And can't relate in that regard, but it sounds like you've, you've merged, especially with endocannabinoid,
00:23:35
All Trews ONLY
a lot of these inter disparate disciplines into something that is kind of your own creation. If that does that does that kind of make sense?
00:23:44
Len May
Yeah, so you're absolutely right. And it's this notion of trying to figure out still where can make the most contribution.
00:23:55
Len May
And I fool myself sometimes. I'll tell you about divorce since you brought it up. I fooled myself and I fooled myself many times with believing that this is what I'm supposed to be doing. So just because you're really good at something and you're mastering something, that doesn't mean that it's fulfilling to you and that's what you need to do.
00:24:13
Len May
So the belief, and I've had this conversation with many people, you're an expert. This is what you're supposed to be doing because you're an expert. You're great at real estate. Well, I get fulfilled.
00:24:25
Len May
It's like a hit of heroin, right? So when you do the transaction, the transaction feels good. You got that hit of heroin. Then after the fact, you're like, now I have to do it all over again. And I've heard elite athletes talk about this. So a Philadelphia Eagles fan for American football.
00:24:42
Len May
And I heard some of the elite athletes on the team say after they just won the Super Bowl, The journey of getting there, they felt relief. They weren't even happy. They were happy for like a minute, but now they're like, let's go out and do this again. wasn't like a fulfilling thing.
00:24:58
Len May
The journey of it was fulfilling. So for me, when I get that transaction, after a while, I started thinking, well, it's all money. So my connection to that was a transactionary connection. But what am I actually contributing?
00:25:13
Len May
So I'm making wealthy people more wealthy. because I'm providing them commercial real estate or I'm helping a business owner. You know, maybe, maybe I didn't look at it in the same way that I can look at it in hindsight, but after a while it became tiring.
00:25:29
Len May
Like it was just, I don't know what I'm contributing to the world. And I'm always looking for things to do to make a greater contribution outside of myself. So, you know, when I'm, when I came to this country,
00:25:44
Len May
In the first year of us being here, think in the first year, my grandfather, because I came my parents and my mom's parents, my grandfather had a stroke. And he proceeded to have multiple strokes. He was very, he was tall and very large gentleman. My grandmother was a really small lady and she to like sort of drag him around. He sort of lost his ability to speak.
00:26:06
Len May
And I'll never forget this image of my grandmother, my mom, sitting with bags of pharmaceuticals. And they would the doctors trying to adjust his medications and the interaction between the medications causing to have this condition.
00:26:20
Len May
And now he's got to get side effects of this. And it was just ongoing. So I was always kind of scared of that stuff. And I was always scared of medication because I always saw the, you know, what happened to my grandfather. was like, you know, I never understood this notion. You go to the doctor.
00:26:35
Len May
and I'm kind of being a little facetious when I say this, but they say, take two of these and call me in the morning. Why is it two? Why are they telling me to take two?
00:26:45
Len May
Why is not four? Why is not one? Why is it two? Well, when they do clinical trials, it's sort of find the average, but the average is not me, plus 25% at least of clinical trials are placebo.
00:26:58
Len May
So I wanted to figure out a way. How can we give... people, the tools to help themselves. And then during COVID, was like, well, maybe it's more than just helping themselves. Maybe it's collaborating with a healthcare professional.
00:27:14
Len May
Maybe it's like being in partnership with your doctor for your own health and wellness. And what can we do help a healthcare professional be more informed about the individual?
00:27:26
Len May
So let's collaborate. The doctor has many patients, but I'm my most important patient. So what can we do? So transparently, we can do whole genome. So now that I know my DNA, my genetics, and the doctor knows my genetics, now we know where my own personal potholes are in my own road.
00:27:46
Len May
So I look as a GPS of life. But just because you know your genetic predispositions, now what do you do about that? So the dune about that is the ability to turn on and off epigenetic expression based on lifestyle choices and changes.
00:28:02
Len May
And I can go into some of that if you would like. I just don't want to get too science-y, so you let me know where you want me to kind of cut off. But the idea is...
00:28:12
Len May
that once you have your genome, now you can personalize treatment protocol specific to the individual, and then you can measure how well that protocol, how well that treatment plan works for the individual by utilizing other tests for epigenetic, what's been turned on and what's been turned off. So think of it as Think of your genetics that you got 50% for your mother and father as a circuit breaker box.
00:28:39
Len May
Bunch of circuit breakers with on-off switches. Some of them are already in the on position. So born early. Our skin color, our hair color, our eye color, things that nature. Some of those we're predisposed to. The programming is there, but our action lifestyle can turn those switches on or off.
00:28:57
Len May
So things like... nutrition. So what we put in our bodies, the food that we eat, it can turn or off our genetic predispositions to make it epigenetic expression.
00:29:10
Len May
What else? Exposure to heavy metals, exposure to pesticides, exposure to other things like that, that can affect it. and our own neurochemistry.
00:29:20
Len May
And what I mean by that is if we're prone to a lot of stress reactivity, that cortisol can actually turn on epigenetic expression, dopamine, other neurochemicals that we produce ourselves.
00:29:32
Len May
So being able to bookend that experience, and now with AI and machine learning, we can get that feedback back to the cloud. The AI can tell, hey, Dr. Smith, you know, will...
00:29:45
Len May
is similar to 100 other people with similar genetics that took this protocol and showed efficacious. So this would be a suggestion that's more personalized. It's not individualized because going learn from you, but it's personalized based on previous information that we feed into the algorithm that can say this is more efficacious based on that information.
00:30:06
Len May
And that's sort of the approach to precision health and wellness we're taking.
Critique of Medical Practices
00:30:11
All Trews ONLY
Well, you're sounding like we're getting away from the Rockefeller model of medicine and moving towards a more enlightened feedback system.
00:30:23
All Trews ONLY
I mean, treating the, well, we've proven treating symptoms don't work and pharmacologically doping people up based upon so-called experts results don't work. You're talking more of getting back to of
00:30:48
All Trews ONLY
a personalized. So like was going to ask is like, so I live in Canada and you said this, this, this endo Canada, if, if I sent you just like like, I don't know, a 23 knee sample, how, how does the process work with your company?
00:31:02
Len May
Yeah. So we're a global company. We are, we used to be a direct-to-consumer company. So we would, you know, so the company, uh,
00:31:16
Len May
We're endo DNA, the endocanna is the cannabinoid test that we have, but that's, we started a corporation with the endocannabinoid system test.
00:31:18
All Trews ONLY
Mm-hmm.
00:31:26
Len May
So Endocanna Health Inc, DBA, endo DNA, so we're under endo DNA, our website is endo DNA because endocanna health, what that did, pigeonholed us in the cannabis space. And what happened was we would get shadow banned everywhere, even though we're not a cannabis company. And it's, but it's hard to explain to the algorithm that we all have an endocannabinoid system. And I can go into that if you want as well. So we went under endodna is sort of our brand, our name, and we shifted over to a, from a direct consumer model to a business to business model where we empower healthcare professionals.
00:32:05
Len May
like I said, we're global company, but we do still under the endocannabinoid health brand, we do still sell an endocannabinoid system test. So you can go on the website, buy a test, it'll get mailed to Canada, or you'll swab the inside your cheek, we're HIPAA, we're GDPR compliant. So the data is de-identified.
00:32:24
Len May
You would then send the sample back to our lab. You log into your portal where you register and you will have your results. And it takes you to product suggestions and gives your sort of secret sauce of your cannabinoid and terpene profiles, shows you drug to drug interactions, gives you your metabolic function for dosing, how you should dose based on how you metabolize.
00:32:46
Len May
So all that exists. And as you said, if you have a 23me or you have an Ancestry.com or Family, My Family DNA, any of those, you can take the raw data from that test. You can upload it to, you can buy the upload, upload it to our site. And within 24 hours, you can log in and get your results as well.
00:33:05
Len May
We're only as good as the genes or what's called the SNPs, single nucleotide polymorphisms that they use, but we have 50 or so percent coverage, but there's a difference in price.
00:33:09
All Trews ONLY
Thank you.
00:33:16
Len May
So like the endocannabinoid system testing on the Canada Health Test, it retails for $199, but the upload, the raw data upload is $49.95.
00:33:28
Len May
So there's a pretty big difference between uploading raw data. But our goal as endo DNA is to provide these to healthcare professionals around the world. that's what we do now. So the idea is it would be clinic.
00:33:42
Len May
So we have this menopause biotype test that looks at predispositions to female hormone health. So I got a call from... Dr. Jennifer Berman, who's one of the top female hormone health doctors in the US, maybe even the world. She was an Oprah, Dr. Phil, all these others. She was in the show called The Doctors.
00:34:01
Len May
But she said, there's two things that started seeing with my patients. Number one is I see young women, like, you know, late 20s, early they're starting to experience perimenopause symptoms.
00:34:13
Len May
I'm sure that has a lot to do with the hormones that's in our foods and our water, et cetera. And also women are expressing a lot of side effects from menopause symptoms like hot flash severity, sleep challenges, all these different things.
00:34:30
Len May
So is there a way that we may be able to get in front or ahead of these things before they express themselves? So we create this menopause biotype test that we empower healthcare professionals by having this you know, in-house in their clinics, they can swab women. And we have an andropause test from a male hormone health as well.
00:34:48
Len May
They can swab women and know in advance that they may have a predisposition to some of these things. And it looks at their openness and possibility to get a benefit or hormone optimization.
00:35:02
Len May
So now they can be prescribed automatically. There are specific bioidentical hormones that are specific to them. Also, there are also things like specific nutrients and supplements and other things that are specific to the individual to mitigate the expression of those epigenetic predispositions or if they're already experiencing, remember I said, on-off switches. So some them we may be able to turn off.
00:35:28
Len May
So that's what we're doing now, you know, approaching health care professionals and empowering them to have their test white label under their brand inside.
00:35:30
All Trews ONLY
Mm-hmm.
00:35:37
Len May
And one the things you brought in since you're in Canada, it's a little bit different. But you mentioned this and I want to kind of emphasize because you're right on on this. It's sick care versus healthcare.
00:35:51
Len May
We've been part of the system that's associated with sick care. We're very, very good at identifying what hurts and being able to address what hurts.
00:36:02
Len May
Now, what hurts to me is a symptom. If you have pain, if I have pain my elbow, I have the opportunity to take an analgesic to block the pain or to get a shot that blocked the pain.
00:36:16
Len May
However, what's causing this pain to begin with? What if I said maybe this is not anything you did to your elbow Maybe it has to do that you have a predisposition of stress reactivity and you are secreting tremendous amount of cortisol, not producing enough of what's called anandamide, which is an endogenous endocannabinoid to be able to get you back to homeostasis.
00:36:41
Len May
So you're always in fight or flight. That cortisol level lowered your pH level, made you more acidic. Your immune system is creating a cytokine, an overactive immune response that's creating inflammation in your joints.
00:36:53
Len May
Now that you have inflammation your joints, your ankles, knees, neck, back, elbow hurts, that is a symptom of something else that's going on. And your doctor is giving you a shot in that.
00:37:06
Len May
It's blocking the pain of the symptom without actually treating the root cause of that. And that's the system, and in Canada it's different because you have different type of medical system, but in the United States,
00:37:20
Len May
It's an insurance-based system. So the insurance-based system is not incentivized to cure. It's not incentivized to look to address a symptom before, you know, to address the root cause of a symptom.
00:37:37
Len May
It's incentivized to get you in and out really quickly, to put you prescription medications that may create side effects that they have other prescription medication for. So they're treating the symptom without curing the root cause.
00:37:51
Len May
And that's the system that needs to be changed. And You know, that's that's the uphill battle. The combination of, you know, Eastern and Western medicine, because we do a fantastic job at diagnostics.
00:38:04
Len May
But the combination of Eastern medicine to actually look at the root cause. I used to have my doctor, Dr. Chen, who's a DO and a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine.
00:38:15
Len May
When I would come to her, the approach is completely different. There's two pulses in her wrist that she would check. She would check my tongue, always yell at me for brushing my tongue because it tells her a lot.
00:38:27
Len May
But something's happening. She goes, oh, well, that's happening from your kidneys. And we have to address your kidneys. Well, yeah, but think it's bronchitis. She's like,
00:38:37
Len May
It's that's the symptom that it's expressing because something's going on. You're kidding. So that is the combination that we want to start looking at to start preventing some these symptoms and change the mindset of this, you know, Western sick care into health span longevity.
00:38:55
Len May
mean, we talk about longevity. This is the new hot topic, right?
00:38:59
Len May
But who the hell wants to live the last 20 years our life when they're sick? So you don't want to just live longer. You want to live longer in a healthy way. So you want to talk about health span versus lifespan and start addressing and addressing things that may be problems later on in our life if we're going to live longer because going happen. We're already living longer, but we don't want to, you know, quality of life is extremely important.
00:38:59
All Trews ONLY
Mm-hmm.
00:39:23
Len May
And those are the things that we're trying to address.
00:39:26
All Trews ONLY
Well, and I just want to bring it back to what you said little bit earlier is that you've been on this path, the hero's journey, the doomer to bloomer cycle, whatever you want call it.
Vision for Healthcare and EndoDNA
00:39:39
All Trews ONLY
You sound extremely passionate and it sounds like you're coming from a place of service rather than a place of, you know, and that, and I feel like in this economy, in this world, that's a rarity nowadays.
00:39:53
All Trews ONLY
I think, I think people, or from my perception of things, are doing things because they have to, not because they want to. This is you actually solving real problems for people in the world, flipping the script
00:40:07
Len May
Thank you.
00:40:11
All Trews ONLY
the way healthcare has been done for 100 years, realistically. And my question to you is,
00:40:21
All Trews ONLY
Where do you see yourself in three years, five years, 10 years? Like you talk about health, wellness, you know, where does, where does endocan or where does endo DNA, like it's 2025, but you want to project this legacy farther, I'm assuming. So what does that look like for you?
00:40:44
Len May
Well, I appreciate you saying this whole thing with passion. And I want to go back to divorce. So I want to get people to understand one thing.
00:40:50
All Trews ONLY
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:40:54
Len May
That growth is on the other side of pain. So... You have to experience something. And this is what I struggle with.
00:41:07
Len May
And I struggle with this notion of I can do something for money. I can do something because when I went through my divorce, it was an extremely painful experience all the way. I've never experienced anything that made me feel depressed.
00:41:24
Len May
And I'm not a person that's depressed. I made bad decisions during that time. I was numb. I was trying to figure things out. And I was doing like odd jobs here and there. And that was the moment when you're darkest, when the light starts coming up for you.
00:41:41
Len May
And I just want people to understand that sometimes You have to go through the struggle and the pain to come out the other side and figure out your purpose.
00:41:51
All Trews ONLY
Thank you.
00:41:52
Len May
And being a polymath as you are, I can do a lot of different things. I can be great a lot of different things. And this isn't an ego thing. It's just because I'm so interested Like I get fed by learning.
00:42:08
Len May
Like this is what people need to understand. It's just part of my diet, right? what I eat. And I have to learn. I have to do this all the time. So I can good at different things. But the fulfillment part doesn't produce the passion.
00:42:21
Len May
And when you don't have the passion, you don't have the neurochemistry to anchor that passion into the hard times because being an entrepreneur is hard as shit. I don't know if you curse on your podcast. I'm not sure. But
00:42:33
All Trews ONLY
100% curse.
00:42:33
Len May
Yeah, ah it's fucking hard.
00:42:34
All Trews ONLY
Go Go redhead.
00:42:35
Len May
So you're and you're alone on an island. And especially when you are doing something that's innovative. When I first started doing this and explaining to people are like personalized weed.
00:42:48
Len May
I'm like, no, you have an endocannabinoid system. What is that? had to explain to people and it's difficult. But I remember you're a Canadian, so I'll do a Gretzky quote. They asked him, how do you score all these goals?
00:43:00
Len May
And he said, I skate where the puck is going to be.
Reflection and Advice on Personal Growth
00:43:03
Len May
So that's been my mentality. I'm not, yes, success leaves clues and there's a breadcrumb trail. However,
00:43:11
Len May
If somebody has been on an island before, it's possible. You can be on an island. It's lonely on an island, but eventually, you know, the tide's going to catch up with you. So to go back and answer your question about where I see myself or where I see the company, my vision is very, very broad and large. So the vision is to have the world's largest database on efficacy or for efficacy.
00:43:44
Len May
That's it. So the more data that we collect all over the world, the more the AI is gonna be able to help healthcare professionals make those personalized decisions for you, for me, for everybody's health span.
00:43:59
Len May
What that leads to, don't know. never went into this. People, investors have been asking, what's your exit? Are you going public? I don't know what the exit per se is, but I may be at some point say, no longer want to do this.
00:44:14
Len May
I've served enough. I can hand the reins over to somebody else and have somebody else do this. Maybe I'll go paint or maybe I'll start something else. But as long as I'm in service and I...
00:44:26
Len May
contribute positively in the world for the greater good that connects to me. I'm going to connect to your heart and it anchors in emotion. It helps you get over those, those tough areas, you know, like experiencing that pain,
00:44:44
Len May
And, you know, across different things in life, you know, being kicked out of my house. By the way, have an incredible relation my parents. I just want to say I speak to my dad every day.
00:44:54
Len May
All that changed, you know, holding on to anger and all that stuff. That's just like a slow poison in me. So I let that shit go long time ago. And it really helped a lot.
00:45:06
Len May
I'm still working through it with my ex-wife. I mean, we're okay. But, you know, well, I'm still working through When you're writing that check every month, there is an anchoring to a feeling that you want to sort of overcome.
00:45:19
Len May
But the point I'm trying to make is Always, if you can figure out how you can make a contribution that's greater than yourself, it'll carry you past those things. Even though you may not be making the money that you feel that you should, you're not making the money that you feel you should in the moment.
00:45:42
Len May
It's only a moment. It'll change over time if you keep following that path and still checking with yourself.
00:45:44
All Trews ONLY
Mm-hmm.
00:45:50
Len May
Am I still making a contribution? Am I still helping people? And I'll tell you one story. I don't get a chance to speak to quote-unquote patients, you know, customers, patients as much as I used to. But I got invited to speak at this conference in Brazil. And there was a line of people They were staying there and there was a girl in a wheelchair and her mom in Portuguese, through a translator, she said, she's so on the spectrum, she's got a bunch of conditions.
00:46:19
Len May
If you look at her in the eyes, her eyes wouldn't be able to focus. She would not be verbal. She couldn't speak, just make some noises. There is just an absentee, you know, child.
00:46:30
Len May
And she said by doing the DNA test and getting the personalized protocol, she was able to communicate with her child. And. they were thanking me and then there was other people that were standing there. And that reminder of why I'm doing this is that when you have the interaction with people that you're saying you've helped these people, it sort of helps you, instead of pushing through things, it helps to pull you over those humps that have come up in the entrepreneurial journey.
00:47:03
All Trews ONLY
And I mean, one last question before I wrap this podcast up. Because you're a super inspiring guy. Like I learned so much in the last 40 minutes.
00:47:17
All Trews ONLY
But if you were to give one piece of advice to somebody who is in the doomer bloomer spiral cycle or is an entrepreneur or wants to be an entrepreneur any the above,
00:47:31
All Trews ONLY
Right, because like you said, the one thing that just brought me back is like a moment is just a moment things aren't forever. But like soundbite advice, what would you tell that person that's on the verge doesn't want to be here still in a doomer mindset, but but really needs the help out?
00:47:54
All Trews ONLY
What would you tell that person?
00:47:55
Len May
I mean, it's the whole, know, I'm not a religious kind of person, but this too shall pass kind of thing is always resonating in my every single thing.
00:48:02
All Trews ONLY
Hmm. Hmm.
00:48:06
Len May
try not to get too high and too low. Your highs Your wins are going to come, but on the other side, you may have a loss. And if you allow your external environment to control your internal sense of self, then you're going allow other people and other factors to control how you are.
00:48:27
Len May
Always work on yourself. Personal development is life's journey. And it doesn't matter what's going on on the outside. It's what's going on on the inside that matters most. And if you have these dark moments, you know, reach out.
00:48:40
Len May
Don't sit there yourself. Talk to people and understand that the dark is going to pass just like the light is going to pass. You, if, like, I use an analogy of sports and football.
00:48:52
Len May
You have to forget the last play. You either caught the ball and scored a touchdown. Wonderful. You have to get out there and do it again. Or you drop the ball and you lost the game. You still have to shake it off and go out there and do it again.
00:49:08
Len May
So don't get too high on the touchdowns. Don't get too low on the drop passes because there's always next play coming up. So be ready for it.
00:49:19
All Trews ONLY
Right on. If our listeners want to connect with you, EndoDNA or any other projects that you're working on, where would be the best place to find you online or in the world wherever your socials hang out?
00:49:35
Len May
Yeah. So endodna.com is the company. My social is Len May on, I think on Instagram, I'm Len May DNA, L E N M A Y. So I'm, I'm very accessible LinkedIn, Instagram X, uh, uh, all that stuff. I TikTok, the only thing I do on TikTok is I do a daily record of the day.
00:49:56
Len May
uh, I, I have a ton of vinyl when I, and I, I have this, I make myself lunch every day.
00:49:57
All Trews ONLY
Thank you.
00:50:03
Len May
When I work from home, grab record, I put in a record player and share that with the audience. So you can get involved in that if you want. I have a podcast as well. It's called everything is personal.
00:50:14
Len May
You can get YouTube anywhere you get podcasts from, It's one of my passion projects. I love talking to interesting people. And then I have a book.
00:50:24
Len May
It's called Making Cannabis Personal. You can get that on Amazon wherever you get books. The thing that I got from this book that I got feedback on people told me it's one of the best definitions that they read of the endocannabinoid system explaining how that works in non scientific terms as much as like my own terminology. So if anybody's interested in digging into that and pick up the book.
00:50:50
Len May
So that's pretty much it.
00:50:52
All Trews ONLY
Awesome. I think I'll pick up that book myself and figure out more about the endocanninoid system in 48 hours or less.
00:51:00
Len May
There you
00:51:02
All Trews ONLY
As always, this has been Will Nemo, your host of the Doomer Bloomers All Truths Only podcast. We are everywhere you get your podcasts, Google, Spotify, YouTube.
00:51:17
All Trews ONLY
You can find me on X, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Instagram, Facebook, and I do have a TikTok. Not as active there as I probably should be, but, you know, not as life.
00:51:29
All Trews ONLY
Once again, Len, thank you for your time.
00:51:31
Len May
Thank you.
00:51:32
All Trews ONLY
Thank you for your energy. Thank you for your service. You've been super inspiring to me and loved having you on my show. Peace for now, and namaste.
00:51:46
All Trews ONLY
Cheers.