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1.13 The Prophecies Begin: Graphic Novels Vol. 1—3
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The graphic novel adaptations came out over twenty years after the release of the first novel! We're digging into how the story was updated, and all the major changes it went through to turn into this beautiful art.
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Twitch: GlitterfoxMedia
Email us: contact@glitterfoxmedia.com
Find us online at glitterfoxmedia.com
Laura posts about Warriors and other books on TikTok as glomdii
Laura is glomdi on Twitch, Bluesky, and TikTok
Jerrica is on Bluesky as CosmicSparkleheart.
"Cloud Dancer " Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Never Grow Up' Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
is Never Grow Up, a show where two grown-ass adults discuss their love of middle-grade fiction. one of your hosts, Laura. And I'm the other one, Jerrica, host. She hosts it with me.
00:00:21
Speaker
And we do it together, and we love it.
Overview of 'Warriors' Series and Graphic Novels
00:00:23
Speaker
And we have finished the first arc of the Warriors series, which is oh which i didn't originally have a name, by the way, because this was not going to turn into a fucking 60-plus book franchise. But they renamed it after when they need one, to The the Prophecies Begin.
00:00:46
Speaker
Wait, there's more prophecies? Of course there are more prophecies, Jericho. Oh my gosh. Every arc has its own prophecy.
00:00:58
Speaker
I'm still, I'm, there's so much happened in that last book. So yeah, we are going to spoil pretty much the entire yeah the entire first arc because we are going to be talking about the graphic novels and the differences between the graphic novels and the main arc.
00:01:24
Speaker
Or that the novels. And I was not allowed to buy the graphic novels because... I need to be fresh for this. I specifically told you that you could read the Prophecies Begin ones. You just couldn't buy the ones that were marketed as the manga.
00:01:45
Speaker
Wait, wait. There's... What? There's graphic novels and manga? Yeah. okay so Okay. first they they start they came out as saying it was like manga, even though we all know technically it's not manga. But the first story is a spoiler, so I'm not going to tell you what it is. And we're going to go over it later. But yeah, they have like unique stories that are manga slash graphic novels. But then they also have like the prophecies begin volume one to three. Oh, shit. That is a retelling of the first arc of the novels.
00:02:25
Speaker
Well, I am very interested to to learn how... similar and different they are because well guess I don't really have a reason I'm just interested
00:02:42
Speaker
okay so we are going to be covering all three of the prophecies begin which covers the first arc each graphic novel is two books essentially of the series okay and how big are these graphic novels um i think ah about 200 pages, i want to say. I'll look it up to make sure.
00:03:06
Speaker
I feel like I should know how thick that is, seeing as though I have many many graphic novels behind me.
00:03:19
Speaker
272 pages. so it's a good amount okay
00:03:28
Speaker
Volume 1 covers Into the Wild and Fire and Ice.
Art and Authorship in 'Warriors' Graphic Novels
00:03:32
Speaker
And we're not going to go over all of the differences. Because like some of them are super mundane. Just like, oh, this event yeah yeah like this event happened at this time instead this time, but doesn't actually have any weight in the story. The main...
00:03:50
Speaker
the the main The most obvious like difference with the art is that sometimes the side characters, like you don't really know which cat is who because obviously they're not like saying their names all the time. So I feel like for someone who just started reading these and like didn't read the novels, i feel like you would care about some of the characters a lot less, you know?
00:04:21
Speaker
Well, I mean... There's not even text boxes that identify them? No.
00:04:30
Speaker
Damn. Yeah. which How are you supposed to know what fucking cat that is? So there, I believe there is a page of allegiances, but like just while you're reading through it, it's not like to have their names.
00:04:44
Speaker
um Laura. Yeah. Who wrote the graphic novel? Both of them co-wrote and co-illustrated Natalie Rice and Sarah Getter.
00:04:59
Speaker
And they have ah cute illustrations of them as cats on the back flap. Oh, nice. Yeah, where the author bio goes. It's adorable.
00:05:10
Speaker
So i guess big difference is not written by the errands.
00:05:18
Speaker
Right, so I think that essentially what they did is they have just included these people in the Aaron group because they're already, because there are already so many authors working on this book. So like yeah officially, officially the author of this book is just Aaron Hunter.
00:05:38
Speaker
And then i really like that. It has more about the artists on the backflap because the regular books don't say anything about like Kate Carey and Vicki Holmes and Jareth Baldry. It just says like,
00:05:53
Speaker
Aaron Hunter is inspired by the love of the wild. Like, who I guess not to confuse kids maybe, or just like simplicity and marketing. I mean, they're theyre they're keeping them keeping up the the artifice there, the fiction. It's just weird to me because like, even as a child, I knew this. that its Like, they weren't like, it's not like this was hidden information. Everyone online, everyone in the online fandom knew this. It was like the first thing they learned about the series.
00:06:25
Speaker
And how
00:06:29
Speaker
how much later was this published from the first two books? Oh, Jerrica. This, the first volume, was published in July 2024. Whoa! So these are new. These are brand new. where we are.
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah, the first volume of the second arc is coming out this year.
00:07:02
Speaker
Oh, shit. Yeah, so this is all there is so far. And at some point, we I wonder if we will catch up to them or if it will take us long enough that we'll be able to do this for every series.
00:07:20
Speaker
Wouldn't that be cool? Yeah, it would. I don't think it's going to happen though. Um...
00:07:28
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, we are instead of going through these with a fine-tooth comb like we do the novels, since they are just adaptations of the novels, we're going to just be talking about the differences in them, and I think it'll be very interesting to analyze, like, how this changed
Changes and Adaptations in Graphic Novels
00:07:44
Speaker
the story. Was it good? Was a bad? Because obviously, like, adapting a novel to a movie or TV show, like, there are changes that you make that It's not because it was bad in the book. It just works better in a different medium. yeah to You have to adjust for the medium. Yeah.
00:08:01
Speaker
So ah the first change that we can talk about, which I don't think this is very huge, but instead of ah Fireheart just like randomly finding Princess, he ah he like goes to seek her out.
00:08:24
Speaker
Did he know that she was around? like he like has memories of his sister and he's like, going go find her. Okay. Seems kind of random.
00:08:37
Speaker
but um I kind of like it Okay. I mean... I kind of like that... I think that... Since... The whole series, Fireheart knows that he's a ThunderClan cat. And it's only everyone else that's doubting that.
00:08:54
Speaker
And there's like... Just a... Okay, there is like a teeny tiny moment when he doubts it. But that's pretty much just because everyone is telling him that he's not yeah belonging there.
00:09:06
Speaker
I like it because it like solidifies that he's like... He's not even questioning being a kittypet. He's just like, yeah, this is who I am, a ThunderClan cat.
00:09:18
Speaker
ThunderClan through and through. And like, i think the only reason he questions it in the book is because like, everyone is like, are you sure you're not visiting her because you are disloyal or whatever? And they're like alienating him so much that he's like, well, maybe, maybe I should be with princess. I'm not sure. But I don't think it was ever like, I want to be a kitty pet. It was, I want...
00:09:46
Speaker
fat i want someone to care about me because at that point gray stripe was like fucking going off with silver stream all the time and like not caring about him and he wasn't close to any other cat in the clan right because no one liked him yeah except blue star
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, but she's not going to like hang out with him and play fucking checkers or whatever. Yeah. So I don't know. I kind of like that.
00:10:21
Speaker
Okay. Well, I mean, i don't think that's that big of a deal as far as it being different. I think it's... um I like that it shows that they weren't just like directly translating from the book. Like, this happened in the book, so let's put it in the graphic novel. like They were thoughtful about like what improvements could be made.
00:10:46
Speaker
That's fair. I mean... I don't know. I'm not. I haven't read a lot of graphic novel adaptations of things, um but I know the Adventure Zone graphic novels, they do change things up a bit.
00:11:00
Speaker
um
00:11:03
Speaker
But it's usually.
00:11:08
Speaker
you know, to better suit the medium or to. Copyright issues. Well, yeah, there's that, but also like, you know, you get You have time to process the the the material, right?
00:11:24
Speaker
So you can look back on it and be like, well, maybe this flows better if we did it this way or this makes a more cohesive story, you know, that sort of thing.
00:11:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:42
Speaker
um Something pretty major that they change is that you remember ah when Fireheart and Graystripe brought WindClan home Whiteclaw died because of leopard fur?
00:11:59
Speaker
Because she started the battle? Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen.
00:12:09
Speaker
oh so Whiteclaw doesn't die? Yeah, so they mention that a river clan patrol spotted them and that Graystripe fell in the river, but they don't say anything about White Claw.
00:12:23
Speaker
Like, no cat died in that scene.
00:12:30
Speaker
Okay. i I feel like that's going to change the first like the the view of leopard fur That was my thought because that since that was really the first time we got a solid representation of leopard fur or like just a moment that she actually did things other than stand at a gathering.
00:12:56
Speaker
I felt like that formed a lot of opinions on her because she starts this battle a warrior dies and then she hates Graystripe for it and it also is really important to Graystripe because it sends him into depression and that's a lot of the reason that he goes to Silverstream because he's so depressed and he's like finding that a little a little spark of happiness he needs to cling to it you know
00:13:27
Speaker
Right. And Silverstream like helps him get over it. It definitely like it definitely colored my view of leopard fur. Right. Yeah.
00:13:40
Speaker
I was like, well, this bitch just likes to start shit. Right. And then like yes, she does. Yeah. And then like later when she's talking to Tiger Claw, you're like, oh, this isn't good because we know what type of cat leopard fur is. hmm.
00:13:57
Speaker
And she gets made deputy.
00:14:01
Speaker
And I think that is a fair... wri I go back and forth on if I like leopard fur. I feel like that's a fair reading even for the diehard leopard fur fans. They gotta know that she makes bad decisions sometimes.
00:14:17
Speaker
Because there are diehard leopard fur fans.
00:14:23
Speaker
Well, there's diehard fans of all the cats, I imagine. Yeah, that's true. Even the horrible ones.
00:14:35
Speaker
You know, i don't think I dislike any of the cats other than the ones I'm supposed to. There is a cat that I promise you will fucking hate it.
00:14:47
Speaker
in the next season we do you're probably supposed to dislike her though actually but uh yeah i oh that book is gonna be rough like
00:15:07
Speaker
yeah i fucking hate tiger star so much But he's the villain. He's an asshole. So.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um I don't think there's any cats. I'm just like, oh, this fucking guy again. Right. Oh, wait. Actually.
00:15:30
Speaker
There is a cat who is almost universally hated in the fandom that I don't think we're supposed to hate.
00:15:41
Speaker
It's hard to tell because they're so awful, but I don't think, I think we're supposed to be able to see why they do things and no one, had just ah no, just no one agrees with that. And I'm,
00:15:58
Speaker
I'm mad because I want to talk to you about that too. is I mean,
00:16:07
Speaker
closest one for me would be, is it? Cloud Fur? Is that what they named him? Cloud Tail. A lot of people do hate Cloud Tail. I feel like a lot people either love or hate Cloud Tail.
00:16:21
Speaker
like i don't I don't hate him, but it's just like this fucking guy. Yeah, he doesn't give fuck. like he He just causes so much trouble for no real reason. He's like, so what I'm eating kitty pet food.
00:16:35
Speaker
No bad will come of this. No, not at all. When you get...
00:16:43
Speaker
ah He deserved what you got. I maintain that.
00:16:48
Speaker
Fight me. Come into the Discord and and and fight me on it. I will not defend you. You'll have to defend yourself. defend yourself I'll defend myself.
00:17:03
Speaker
One change that is minor but important is that Swiftpaw is apprenticed with Cinderpaw and Brackenpaw, which makes sense because he's an apprentice for so goddamn long. That the timing side that was just a correction on the timing, I think.
00:17:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
Although, i mean, it does.
00:17:33
Speaker
You kind of wonder in the books, like, all right, what why look what what the fuck is wrong with this cat? that they're not getting made ah Right, because Swiftpaw has made an apprentice in book who Yeah, book two.
00:17:50
Speaker
but is still an apprentice in book five when Brackenfur at that point is looking to have an apprentice of his own, but he was apprenticed after Swiftpaw. The timing just doesn't make sense at all. They definitely just overlooked it.
00:18:12
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:16
Speaker
um That is pretty much all of the changes for this one. The other ones have a lot more significant changes. these This one wasn't too bad. Other than Cloud Kit is not in this volume at all. he is in He debuts in volume two, even though he was in Fire and Ice. But I think they just rearranged things because they wanted to focus more like... i think they just wanted to contain the stories better.
00:18:47
Speaker
Sure. Oh, they wanted it to be less like all over the place.
00:18:53
Speaker
Which, I mean, I don't really see a downside in just having him in volume three instead of volume two, uh, one. Okay. So volume two, same authors and illustrators. Oh, also worth noting is that each arc for the graphic novels are going to have different illustrators. so there's going to be like that. yeah Yeah, so obviously it's a similar art style, but it's like different enough that each of them will be very distinct from each other, which is really nice.
00:19:27
Speaker
Yeah, as someone who's really into comics, like
00:19:34
Speaker
you appreciate getting different people's views. Yeah. like Interpretations, what they these characters as. see these these characters as You're not and.
00:19:48
Speaker
You're not always going to love it, but. It still makes it interesting. Yeah.
00:19:58
Speaker
In volume two. They essentially just clean up a little bit of the messiness surrounding Redtail's death. Remember when we were talking about that and it was like, oh, I thought Oakheart died from the rock fall. were Like, oh, but Ravenpaw said Redtail killed Oakheart. And there was just like... it They pretty much just cleaned that up because I think when they wrote Into the Wild, I think they didn't realize how much this was going to like pop off. So they werent they weren't very particular about it and then they had to go and essentially fix it in book two. They had to send Fireheart and Graystripe to talk to Ravenpaw to be like, hey, your story doesn't make sense. And then Ravenpaw gave them a new story.
00:20:44
Speaker
ah They just fixed that the first time and had Ravenpaw tell it correctly. So they didn't have to have them go visit Ravenpaw. So yeah, thats that's a good change.
00:20:57
Speaker
Also on the cover of the second book, it's Yellowfang. How do we feel about that?
Character Portrayals and Cultural Sensitivity
00:21:02
Speaker
Should it have been a different cat? um So that the the volume two covers... Forest of Secrets and Rising Storm.
00:21:12
Speaker
yeah yeah forest secrets and rising storm So when Tiger Claw is revealed and when the ThunderClan camp is destroyed by the fire.
00:21:29
Speaker
Is it three in which? um
00:21:38
Speaker
Broken Star?
00:21:42
Speaker
dies crooked star what the fuck is no yeah it is broken star i i believe he died in book two let me look it up because i i believe he died after there was a battle over him oh my god his pixel artwork on the wiki fucking amazing i'm about to send it to you what the fuck What the fuck?
00:22:17
Speaker
That's scary. oh no, no. It was in book three. Okay, yeah, he did die at the end of book three because he had plotted with Tiger Claw to bring the rogues in to try to overthrow Bluestar.
00:22:31
Speaker
I mean, I i like Yellowtail. Yellowfang. Yellowfang. Jesus Christ. don't know Yellowtail, so I don't know if i like them or not.
00:22:44
Speaker
um I'm just assuming there's one named Yellowtail somewhere. bet there is. Yeah. um Oh, there's not a canon one. Interesting. Not yet.
00:22:57
Speaker
um So I'm fine with that. Okay. So judging by the fact that you asked me about that, are you not fine with that? I don't know. i just, I didn't.
00:23:10
Speaker
just I guess I just never saw Yellowfang as like a main, main character for this. like She's one of the supporting cast, but it would be like it feels like it would be like putting Graystripe on the cover just because he's a main character. I don't feel like Yellowfang drove the story in these ones.
00:23:32
Speaker
Like, I feel like, okay, now I know what you're going to say, that I'm just biased, but I feel like putting Bluestar on the cover of a book in which her mind gets crippled by betrayal and she is one of the main plot points would make sense.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, but you can make that same argument for putting her on every book. But this book, this one is the one where she finds out about the betrayal.
00:24:09
Speaker
no She finds out in book one. She just doesn't listen. ah ah Yeah. Yeah. To be fair, she finds out in book two because that's when he tells her.
00:24:25
Speaker
Was it book two? who Okay, well. Either way, ah i well i think Silverstream should have been on the cover.
00:24:40
Speaker
Okay. Because that's a big plot point. Yeah, honestly, that also crossed my mind.
00:24:52
Speaker
Because...
00:24:56
Speaker
that their kits are some of the main characters in the second arc so like without that whole plot line around Graystripe and Silverstream things would have been very different right I mean because you know you have her dying you you have Graystripe sneaking off all the time um which I guess happens starts happening in book two um
00:25:27
Speaker
But like I think it gets really bad in book three, right? Yeah. Where he's like actively neglecting his apprentices. Yeah. Well, and I think that it, it,
00:25:43
Speaker
gives a lot of opportunity for bluestar and fireheart to have a lot of character development because bluestar we can see how conflicted she is about the kits because of her own kits that she lost so it kind of it kind of just like drives home that like
00:26:05
Speaker
i mean essentially i feel like she's just kind of jealous of graystripe for getting to go off and be with his kits and and Fireheart has to be making decisions like, okay, I think he shouldn't be doing this, but I'm going to stay loyal to him. So I'm going to break my moral code to, you know, keep him safe.
00:26:33
Speaker
Graystripe is a very selfish cat. I'm going to be honest. Great. I don't hate Graystripe, but he, is worthless.
00:26:47
Speaker
he He fire her.
00:26:52
Speaker
Kids ah goes through so much shit on on his account. i cannot
00:27:05
Speaker
think of a reason that that is incorrect.
00:27:11
Speaker
I love Graystripe because i think that he does a lot of interesting things. But yeah, yeah he's kind of worthless to the clans. He really only cares about like his family and Fireheart because like he switches clans willy-nilly. Yeah, he's flip-flopper. He's like...
00:27:35
Speaker
he's He has this like poor me attitude because Leopardfur doesn't trust him in RiverClan when he is constantly doing things to make her not trust him. And then Fireheart is like, oh, I'm going to choose Whitestorm as my deputy to not show favoritism towards Graystripe. And it's like, no, Graystripe, it just makes no sense to make him deputy. He just got back into the clan like a moon ago.
00:28:01
Speaker
After breaking the warrior code to see Silverstream and leaving ThunderClan. and also, she didn't train his apprentices. so Yeah.
00:28:16
Speaker
And he shows no leadership qualities. Like, Fireheart is constantly... like thinking for himself, taking initiative in things, and trying to get Graystripe involved, and Graystripe is always just like, eh, whatever, I'm gonna go eat.
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, Fireheart is like out there putting out fires. Oh! Ayo.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, I... Now, mind you, mind you, Fireheart...
00:28:59
Speaker
Ain't perfect by any means. ah But...
00:29:05
Speaker
He does a decent job keeping shit together. Well, hi bar I feel like someone pointed this out on Reddit and I really agree with it. I feel like for all the cats outside of Firestar's POV, it makes sense to just see him as some like intelligent, uh, uh, oh, what's the word I'm looking for?
00:29:29
Speaker
Like confident leader because All his doubts are in his head and he figures it out and he decides what to do and he does it.
00:29:40
Speaker
And the other cats aren't seeing that internal conflict. They're just like, oh, a hard thing happened and Fireheart knows what to do. So it really i really do think that.
00:29:53
Speaker
this These books don't have a lot of complicated the character i'd like development slash just character building, but I do think that Fireheart, they do a really good job of showing a realistic leader because like he does have all those doubts. From the outside, a good leader is going to look like they didn't have all the answers.
00:30:18
Speaker
And a occasionally freaking sandstorm needs to smack him upside the head yeah exactly he um okay so when cinder paw gets her in her accident and there's like the iconic scene of yellow fang saying she's never going to be a warrior they change that in the graphic novel Instead, Yellowfang just says that her paw is never going to be the same.
00:30:54
Speaker
And she's going to have she's going to have to live with this disability for the rest of her life. Which means Cinderpaw didn't just become a medicine cat because she couldn't be a warrior. She actually wanted to be a medicine cat. And I think that's an amazing change.
00:31:13
Speaker
Yes. Because these books have always been obsessed with like, oh, you have this disability, you can't be a warrior then. You're useless. You're a burden to your clan.
00:31:25
Speaker
So I think it shows a lot of growth that they're like, no, ah that was a mistake. We shouldn't have done that. Let's change it for this one. So did they also fix the other books?
00:31:40
Speaker
giant problematic thing with snow kit mm-hmm they sure do yeah they just ah take that scene out entirely yeah well okay I'm gonna say they don't fix it all the way they progress was made they just take snow kit out of the story
00:32:09
Speaker
So it's still not great, but it's better than let's have a really graphic scene of this death kit being taken away by an eagle.
00:32:26
Speaker
And I think they, I think they could have very easily had snow kit.
00:32:34
Speaker
I guess not very easily. I think they could have had snow kit, just be a warrior.
00:32:43
Speaker
It wasn't Snow Kid I was thinking of. It was... um
00:32:51
Speaker
The one who they gave her a new name. oh Yeah, they changed that too. Okay. Brightheart. Yeah. um Yeah, so... Actually... Do any of these graphic novels give give us some gay cats?
00:33:08
Speaker
Yes.
00:33:12
Speaker
Yes.
00:33:16
Speaker
Gosh, yes. Thank you.
00:33:21
Speaker
ah We will get to both of those things. A really ah a kind of small thing to go over really quickly before we wrap up volume two. um When Cloud Paw is taken in the novels,
00:33:39
Speaker
Ravenpaw goes with them to save Cloudpaw. In the graphic novel, Princess goes with them. And she is the one who frees him from the two leg trap, which I really like because they treat Princess like this fragile, stupid cat in the books.
00:33:58
Speaker
So I like that for the graphic novel. They were like, no, like she's a mama cat. She's going to go save her kit. She's not just some fragile little thing. Yeah, I like that.
00:34:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:13
Speaker
Okay, let's get to volume three. Volume three has Tiger Star on the cover, which I'm going to give them that one. That one makes sense.
00:34:29
Speaker
Although they have tiger lilies in the background, which doesn't really make sense. like I guess just the name Tiger, but whatever. It's not big deal.
00:34:44
Speaker
um Okay, so yeah, on the subject of Brightheart. um So they do still have her mauled by the dogs. They still have her called ah Lost Face. They have Bluestar. Yeah, they they do that thing with Bluestar. But...
00:35:06
Speaker
Here's a thing that I like. Here's a change that I like. First of all, they...
00:35:15
Speaker
they met they They put a lot more emphasis on her mental tragedy and mental trauma of the event rather than her like physical loss. So it's it's a lot of like...
00:35:32
Speaker
Her... um
00:35:37
Speaker
I mean, I guess it's subtle. It's a subtle change because she still is like shy and scared. but it I mean, yeah, it's just more of like I went through a hard thing than my face is fucked up, you know?
00:35:50
Speaker
Mm hmm. um the part that I really like is that when they bring her to meet princess uh in the book princess like shies away and like essentially is like oh this horrible creature that was so scary and Brightheart goes off and is like I want to see my face and she looks in a puddle and
00:36:16
Speaker
is all down on herself and cloud paw is like comforting to her and everything in the graphic novel uh instead of princess being like uh god i can't think of words tonight instead of her like being shocked at it she's just like really concerned for bright heart like she's like oh my god you poor thing like are you okay and instead of being like that face and the the whole like scene ends with her bright heart is just like oh that was like nice meeting your mom and i just it grows their relationship with cloud tail instead of her ending being like ew my face
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah, like.
00:37:18
Speaker
Like.
00:37:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:26
Speaker
Another change is that the scene where they sneak into the RiverClan camp and save Graystripe's kits and Mistyfoot, that is essentially skipped over. And Graystripe goes and does that by himself and just tells Fireheart what happened. Okay. Yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker
yeah i
00:37:59
Speaker
I don't like that, but I can... See you why they did it. Yeah, ah like, I'm guessing the reason they did it was because they just had too much to put in the books.
00:38:13
Speaker
So it was a scene that wasn't, like, crucial to the story. That's just, I mean, that's just my assumption. i don't know why else they would have taken it out, but...
00:38:25
Speaker
So I'm not like mad about it, but it is a bummer because I really, i really like that scene. I really like that it stone first stands up to them and it just shows his integrity. and it has like the cute little scene with Featherpaw and Stormpaw where he's like, I'm going to protect you.
00:38:45
Speaker
um yeah. Plus like Graystripe doing it by himself. Okay, man. Right? ok
00:38:57
Speaker
You have not shown any aptitude that would convince me that you would be able to pull that off. Yeah. The ah last change that we can talk about is that... um this is This is so strange because it's like there's a lot of controversy around it and yet also there's the controversies based on nothing. There's a cat named Blackfoot who is the deputy of ShadowClan and instead in the graphic novel they call him Blackstep because apparently there is a Native American trolley
00:39:38
Speaker
tribe yeah there's there yeah yeah yeah yeah i couldn't remember if it was a tribe or person uh there's a native american tribe and it's it's so strange because no one from harper collins or the aaron hunter team has said why they changed it but like the assumption is because of the tribe it
00:40:03
Speaker
people are very split on if this is an instance of actual sensitivity of fixing a ah you know offensive thing that they did or if it's one of those white people trying to be woke type things I so I I'm a person who firmly believes in being respectful to peoples right um all peoples well well i could think of one group that i've not yeah yeah okay but um i don't know as if they would have a big they would have a problem with it because it's like we're not naming the whole clan and also
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah, they named him Blackfoot because he has a black foot. m Like, it's just kind of obvious. Yeah. So... I mean, that you you just put two different words together.
00:41:16
Speaker
you put an an adjective and a noun together. I... i Like, I definitely, my opinion on it is that, like, okay, i've this doesn't affect me, so I'm not going to say one way or the other if, like, they should have done it or not. But in situations like this, my first thought is, like, okay, I'm going to go find someone that actually does affect and see what their opinion on is on it.
00:41:41
Speaker
I couldn't find anything. i I looked it up. I did several different searches. I could not find anyone upset with this name. I couldn't find... The only thing that I could find was people saying, I'm not outside this group and here's my opinion on it. So I'm like, I guess I don't really mind one way or the other. It's not hurtful to change his name. like it's not It's not like we're canceling someone to change his name. Okay, it, i guess.
00:42:11
Speaker
and
00:42:15
Speaker
we're just covering our bases of not being offensive black step
00:42:24
Speaker
is a little bit more original yeah it is kind of sounds better but they couldn't call him shadow step because of dnd yeah i don't know okay don't know if that's true or not i couldn't call him shadow step because people aren't named the first what the what the clans are named except randomly there's a wind flight in blue stars prophecy but whatever that's wait there's there's also
00:42:57
Speaker
isn't there running wind isn't that a cat yeah yeah but that's the second name
00:43:04
Speaker
okay ah Which, you know what, I said this was the last change, but I'm also going to mention, Running Win isn't killed by Tigerstar in this book. He's killed by a monster on a thunder path.
00:43:16
Speaker
And I think that's annoying, because Running Win, I loved as a fucking character, and I don't want him to be just some, oh yeah, he just died by a monster. No, I want him to further the plot and show how evil Tigerstar is if he has to die.
00:43:35
Speaker
Running Wind is the first cat that Tigerstar kills in ThunderClan. And he specifically is like, yeah, I just fucking hate ThunderClan. So I'm going to kill their cats. But why? Why does he hate ThunderClan so much?
00:43:48
Speaker
Because none of them sided with him over Bluestar.
00:43:54
Speaker
Which actually is fucking buck wild. Because really, when you think about it, Tigerstar... it was his impatience that destroyed him in the end like he was literally deputy he would have been leader after blue star he just didn't want to wait for her to die and she was on her last life yeah kill her well that's what he tried to do i yes but he could have planned it a little bit better No, I'm saying all literally all he had to do was wait for her to die and then he wouldn't have had to had have any of these convoluted plans because who would be able to challenge him as leader?
00:44:36
Speaker
Like, he was rightfully put in there that position.
00:44:43
Speaker
yeah i get Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, he have had more patience. Yeah, and then if he did that, he wouldn't have had to bring BloodClan into the forest at all because he could have had the support of all of ThunderClan and still did what he did. he could have gotten ShadowClan on his side. He could have gotten RiverClan on his side.
00:45:06
Speaker
honestly blue star was the only one who was in defense of wind clan he probably could have easily convinced river clan and shadow clan to drive wind clan out what did wooden clan ever do nothing to him they get shit on yeah they do For no good reason. In fact, it is the plot of an upcoming arc. Oh my gosh. That Wind Clan is the weak clan.
00:45:38
Speaker
Not the whole plot. It's just ah a factor in a lot of things that happen.
00:45:48
Speaker
So yeah, that's all the major changes. Oh, you know what? Actually, another thing that I noticed when I was reading is that when Firestar got his lives, they don't make a point of how much the lives hurt. And I kind of i kind of don't like that. Because I think that...
00:46:06
Speaker
I really liked the moment when he got Brindleface's life and he was expecting warm fuzzies because she's a mother. But that one like hurt the most because she was like, i will fucking murder for these kids. Because reading that as like a fucking 13-year-old, that was like crazy to me you know Obviously, if you read it as an adult, like an adult is more...
00:46:29
Speaker
ah aware of how fierce the mother is for her children but reading as a kid it like really drove home to me you know was like oh wow that's true like that's such a good thing that they included in there like mothers do do whatever they need to for their kids so I think that was I'm kind of bummed that well yeah generally mother but yeah i was kind of bummed that they took that out because i feel like it would have been pretty easy to include it just have like you know shock on his face and like an outline of like the jagged outline with like his hair poofing out
00:47:11
Speaker
right it would have looked funny too yeah so but me ask you this The decline of Bluestar's mental faculties.
00:47:24
Speaker
How well is that depicted?
Dramatic Elements and Artistic Choices
00:47:27
Speaker
Amazingly. Okay. The artists do such a good job of making her look fucking insane. and it like gradually happens over time. Like she starts out with the like far away look in her eye. And like you can tell she's like.
00:47:47
Speaker
kind of not taking care of herself and by the end of it it's like overblown dramatic graphic novel style of like when she snaps at people it's like takes up a whole page and there's like all of the like you know exclamation bullshit and all the other cats their faces are just like complete shock and uh yeah it's really good
00:48:11
Speaker
I think that graphic novel adaptations can be hit or miss because sometimes it's like, I like this because I'm a fan of it already. um But I think this one is like actually really good. And i think I would not be surprised if kids picked this up who like just were into graphic novels and then thought like, oh I really like this. I'm going to read the books too.
00:48:33
Speaker
So there's one more, right? Nope. It's just three.
00:48:39
Speaker
Because it's two books each. I'm not going to lie. i somehow missed that we were in volume three. Because that's the one with the tiger star on the cover.
00:48:53
Speaker
Yeah, I somehow missed that transition. ah
00:49:03
Speaker
wow Okay. So i have a question for you, Laura. Wait, hang on right now. I think I might have found an answer for something.
00:49:20
Speaker
yeah Okay, okay. I have just found, sorry, ah on the wiki here under a reference, I have found confirmation. Someone asked the artist Tumblr...
00:49:33
Speaker
why black foot was changed to black step and yeah she did she did say it was because of the tribe uh the illustrator asked if it would be okay to change it and they were just like oh yeah that's fine so yeah i guess ah it uh confirmed which i mean it was probably pretty obvious that that's why but it's nice to have the confirmation okay sorry what is your question
00:50:01
Speaker
Reading the six books and reading the three graphic novels. Yes.
00:50:11
Speaker
Which one do you think
00:50:17
Speaker
gives the better story?
00:50:28
Speaker
In what way? Because i can think of positives and negatives. Okay. In several different ways. um if you had If you could only have one or the other, which version would you prefer having?
00:50:48
Speaker
Oh, I mean, for me, that's it has to be the books because I grew up with them. So that's like, i it's impossible to not be biased in that. Okay. Okay.
00:51:01
Speaker
I think, okay, I feel like I, I think I get what you're trying to ask. And the answer that is that it depends on person to person, like who, if someone wanted to read these for the first time, which one would I say to start with? And it depends, like, if I think that you are ready for 1 million characters in a novel, i'm going to say to read the novels. But if it's someone who just reads Not just read, regretp but like their favorite is graphic novels. Like i'm going to say the graphic novels, you know, or if they don't have a lot of time or if they don't have a lot of attention span, like I think it depends. And like the artwork is really good.
00:51:42
Speaker
I was really scared because I really liked the old artwork. They changed it for these graphic novels from what they were using. And I didn't like it at first because like I liked the old stuff. But reading the graphic novel, I'm like, I can really see how it helps add like expression and tone and all of that to ah like what they needed to be doing.
00:52:06
Speaker
So would you say that the graphic novels do a good job of... telling the story. Yeah.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I think i think they do a really good um of taking advantage of the graphic novel aspect of it because there will be times when they like drop dialogue or like just massively condense scenes because they can like express something in just one panel instead of having like a paragraph about it. I think they were like really smartly put together.
00:52:46
Speaker
Okay, cool. I, myself, am kind of excited. yeah i should see if the library has them.
00:52:59
Speaker
They're super popular. I would be surprised if they don't have them. Actually, I'm going to look that up right rat and now. now Tell me more about this this manga situation. Okay, so...
00:53:16
Speaker
Pretty early on, I think around the third arc, ah they started doing, they started publishing manga that would like be in between the main plot lines. So like,
00:53:34
Speaker
I cannot give details about the first one because it's a spoiler of what happens in arc two, but essentially something happens with one of the cats where they are away from the clans and it wouldn't really make sense for the books to cover it, but they still wanted to explore that story. So they were like, Oh, what if we made like the manga for it?
00:53:57
Speaker
And I don't know if it, I, I'm guessing probably they wanted to do a manga and came up with a story. i made it seem like it was the other way around. But um yeah, they essentially just, when there are side stories that wouldn't make sense to be in the books, they kind of put them in the manga. And it started out where there would be like a trilogy of them. And then they started just doing like novel lengths.
00:54:28
Speaker
novel-like publications okay so is the manga more like the art style more manga like or yeah yeah okay yeah you can definitely see that like they were trying to make it look more manga versus the graphic novels there are just graphic novel yeah yeah
00:54:53
Speaker
So yeah, that's the first arc in graphic novel style.
Listener Engagement and Additional Content
00:54:58
Speaker
Well, i have put a hold on it at my local library. um And so I am excited for when it comes in so I can check it out.
00:55:15
Speaker
And you will get but it and added to my stack of other Graphic novels and trade paper bags that are sitting there waiting to be read.
00:55:27
Speaker
You can get on the Discord and come talk to us. and You can find the link in the episode description or at our website, GlitterFoxMedia.com, where you can also find our other podcasts somewhere elsewhere. And we Fix Games, which are about other nerdy things that you'll love. Just trust me.
00:55:48
Speaker
I mean, if you like us, then there's you will like the other stuff. I promise you. Yeah. And everyone loves Janelle, so like... Yeah.
00:56:04
Speaker
And if you don't, I'll fucking fucking beat you up. I'll find you. As always, I have Sparkleheart. And I have been Snowstorm.
00:56:14
Speaker
And guys... Just because you get older doesn't mean you have to grow up. Bye!