Transcript
Speaker: What's up, everybody?
Speaker: Welcome back to another episode of the Transform Recruiting Podcast.
Speaker: You know, in my day-to-day world, I get to come across some people who are doing amazing things in the recruiting and staffing space.
Speaker: And some of those people are actually interacting with technology.
Speaker: And there are very, very different thoughts on how technology should work within recruiting organizations.
Speaker: And I was having an email thread with our guests today and they had mentioned how they're approaching their technology philosophy.
Speaker: And I thought, oh, my gosh, more people need to hear this.
Speaker: So welcome to the show, Mr. Frank Mullet.
Speaker: Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker: And of course.
Speaker: So I want everyone to know a little bit more about where you're coming from and kind of your background.
Speaker: So how in the world do you end up in this crazy recruiting staffing space?
Speaker: That's a good question.
Speaker: So I've been in staffing probably 11 years or 12 years now.
Speaker: Back in 2011, I started.
Speaker: I've primarily been in healthcare, had the better part of two years spent in IT.
Speaker: I've done recruiting and sales and training and management.
Speaker: And now I found myself in operations pretty heavy on the IT side for implementation and
Speaker: integration stuff.
Speaker: But how did I find myself here?
Speaker: It was just kind of like luck of the draw.
Speaker: Ended up, you know, moving to a new state and fresh out of college, wanting to get my feet wet in something and helping people out with finding the job that they want seemed like a pretty good idea.
Speaker: That's all she wrote.
Speaker: History isn't it great is there?
Speaker: Yeah, like us as like brand new recruiters.
Speaker: We're like, all right, our job is to find people this awesome new roles that they're going to be loving forever.
Speaker: And we fell into it because we didn't know what we wanted to do.
Speaker: Yeah, we just found our own job.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, and then help others do the same thing is great.
Speaker: So walk people through what you're currently undertaking.
Speaker: Right now, I'm just primarily focused on integrating new systems that can be interoperable.
Speaker: So meaning that data can be used in both and then updating recruitment lifecycle processes, developing a sales lifecycle process and kind of perfecting both of those.
Speaker: And all along the way, I'm doing our best to more or less take a page out of a book of Amazon, right?
Speaker: So there's a reason why their logo is that smiley face that has the A connected to the Z. And that's exactly what they handle, A through Z. And across a lot of industries, I don't know if a lot of them have that A through Z mentality or that process.
Speaker: And something that could be improved upon within the recruiting world is certainly that.
Speaker: handling everything from the beginning to the end and giving real-time updates to the people who are looking for jobs and you're actively working with them.
Speaker: really focusing in on what technologies we can leverage and how to do that while also allowing the recruiters to spend their time doing what's most important, which is working with the candidates and developing the relationships, especially because I particularly kind of in the world of travel.
Speaker: And so travel definitely requires a lot of trust because a lot of these individuals are going from one state to another.
Speaker: Having these conversations and just knowing that your recruiter isn't only a recruiter, but somebody you can be fully relied upon and they know kind of what to expect and what's in the area and what the hiring crew looks like at the particular organization that we might be staffing.
Speaker: All of that I think is really important.
Speaker: So it's good to have subject matter experts, but also to be able to utilize their time in that regard.
Speaker: So getting all of the details from them.
Speaker: And that can happen whenever you alleviate some of the administrative more tech processes that they would otherwise be spending their time doing if they didn't have something semi-automated.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So that's in a nutshell, kind of what we're working on right now.
Speaker: I think that's incredible because I've always felt for the longest time, like we've got all this crazy tech in other industries, like things that normal ATSs are normal, kind of just prepackaged what people call normally an ATS.
Speaker: All of those systems are fantastic for like tracking what has already happened, but they're really lacking in some of the ways that you can leverage technology to do what technology is best at while freeing up those recruiters to do the things that they're best at.
Speaker: Like you said, like building those relationships, building trust.
Speaker: So I like that you're approaching things that way.
Speaker: And it seems like you had to move out of the standard kind of tech stack realm and you're kind of creating your own sort of integrations among different ones.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I mean, to some degree, I think you hit the nail on the head there.
Speaker: It is kind of unfortunate that you can't as a staffing organization just go online and look at what can we get off the shelf that on the front end is configurable with already prebuilt customizations.
Speaker: That would be a huge game changer.
Speaker: I think that that's probably what the industry needs the most.
Speaker: And
Speaker: Instead, what most companies are doing, they're either building their own proprietary system from the ground up, which if you have the time and the money to do that, go for it.
Speaker: But if you don't and you need a system so that everything can be tracked and analyzed and you can have trends and all of these other things that come along with having all your data in one succinct spot.
Speaker: then you get one of these off the shelf CRMs or ATSs.
Speaker: And then from there, you're spending a year, two, three, four, five, even on customizing it specific to how your business wants to operate within the recruiting industry.
Speaker: And granted, there's a lot in recruiting.
Speaker: I mean, you're talking manufacturing and light industrial.
Speaker: You have IT, you have health care, you have name the industry, and then there's verticals within that.
Speaker: So there's a lot of nuance.
Speaker: There's a lot of play within the joints there.
Speaker: And each company is going to want to have some type of specific process kind of curated for themselves, which is, you know, their competitive advantage, arguably.
Speaker: So it just is a lot of time in R&D, research and development, and then putting those things together, um,
Speaker: And if you're doing it right, it's going to take time because you want to make sure that you're doing a tight 360 and covering all the different nuances as much as possible.
Speaker: But at the same token, you don't want to have the paralysis by analysis type of issue where you can't correct an action unless you take action.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So there's going to be some miscues.
Speaker: But even with that, as long as you're constantly keeping your finger on the pulse of the business and analyzing things and
Speaker: improving them, and then deploying those different improvements, I think overall you're going to be okay.
Speaker: But the industry as a whole, if there was a system off the shelf that came with a one-time configuration, you could spend two weeks configuring it.
Speaker: But if it had all the customizations built in, and I know that that's an insane ask, but something like that would take years to build, most likely to have all the different customizations for all the different industries, even just to start with one industry, say healthcare.
Speaker: that would be a huge game changer, something that was going to connect text messages and having sequenced, you know, trip campaigns where somebody gets submitted to a job and you have a recap live time via text with a link to an email that they also receive and just keeping them abreast of all the updates that go on because in health care and in staffing in general,
Speaker: You never know exactly how many candidates are submitted to a job unless you're told.
Speaker: And there's days where you might be submitted to three jobs and you're wondering, well, is there an update?
Speaker: Even if there isn't an update, let the candidate know.
Speaker: I mean, you have to have the open dialogue so that they're fully comfortable knowing that you are actually doing work, even though there's not an update, because we're just more or less having our hands tied to the desk waiting on a hiring manager.
Speaker: that might be out or you just don't know what the circumstances are.
Speaker: But it's important to have that communication and those consistent pings, especially if you're working on establishing trust and letting the other person on the other line know that, hey, I have your back and all these things like we didn't spend half an hour to an hour getting all of your preferences and exactly what you're looking for, for me to submit you to a job and then you never hear from me again.
Speaker: Like that's that's not the route you want to go.
Speaker: That's so funny you say that because I used to preach the importance of the no update update all the time.
Speaker: Yes, it's OK if you have nothing to go to them with.
Speaker: They need to hear from you.
Speaker: And I actually did a speaking engagement on that at one point.
Speaker: And everyone's like, yeah, but it's so hard to do this and do that.
Speaker: It's like, how do you want to be treated, though?
Speaker: You'd want to know.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: That is, again, something that can be semi automated, right?
Speaker: Like if you have a candidate that is submitted to a job and
Speaker: There's a timetable there, like every 24 hours.
Speaker: And then also too, if you really want to go the extra mile, which I would, I'm always about going the extra mile.
Speaker: I would give the candidate themselves the opportunity to determine what frequency they want the updates on.
Speaker: So if they want to get a text automated to themselves every 12 hours, we can do that.
Speaker: It's a no update update in some cases.
Speaker: Other times it's a very fast turnaround.
Speaker: So
Speaker: I think all of that is important, but letting everybody know who's being considered for a job, what is happening with that job, I think is incredibly important.
Speaker: Yeah, should be table sticks.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: So you mentioned something really interesting as you were talking about evaluating different kind of tech and tech stacks and things like that.
Speaker: You mentioned there's this mentality for folks to buy and then have the hardest time customizing that thing to be what they need.
Speaker: And then you have this other side of the build of, yeah, with endless time and money, you can probably make something pretty crazy.
Speaker: I know large firms that are doing this for like tens and tens of dozens of millions of dollars per year to keep up with that kind of thing.
Speaker: So it's only possible, but man, it's expensive.
Speaker: It sounds like you've kind of hit your sweet spot in the middle.
Speaker: Talk to me about that sweet spot and what people should kind of be looking for out of their the tech stack they're putting together to at least enable what you've been describing.
Speaker: Yeah, at the end of the day, it depends on what the particular company wants to do with whatever they find.
Speaker: If you can buy a CRM or ATS system that has a lot of the core functionality, and many of them do, but none of them are going to probably come out of the box with some of the bells and whistles where we're talking about the semi-automation of having
Speaker: text messages, of having email drip campaigns.
Speaker: It's a matter of configuration.
Speaker: So yeah, we're somewhere in the middle where we bought and are utilizing a software that
Speaker: luckily has the ability to connect to a ton of third-party apps.
Speaker: And I think that's what a lot of these off-the-shelf companies decided to do, not realizing, or maybe they have done it intentionally, realizing that there's actually a lot of money to be made if they were to take the time and invest in building a system that could be fully configured with all these customizations out of the get-go.
Speaker: But all these third-party apps that are available, that is, again, something that you could buy and add on and configure so that you do have the text messaging and so that you do have email drip campaigns.
Speaker: We're more or less in that
Speaker: spot where we have an ATS or CRM and we're building out these processes.
Speaker: And a lot of it is us drinking from a fire hose because we're not necessarily the background of IT and dev.
Speaker: But in today's world where you have large language models like ChatGPT and Copilot and
Speaker: all these other things, GitHub, all the resources that you would need, as long as you have the knack and dedication to learning and putting it in place.
Speaker: It's extremely rewarding whenever you have an entire team of recruiters that are asking for tools that you can provide and you don't know anything about how to provide it to them initially, but going through that.
Speaker: And luckily we have
Speaker: we have the time to dedicate some of those allocated resources to it.
Speaker: So I think that's pretty huge.
Speaker: If you're a smaller team and you don't have the time for dedicated resources, then that's whenever you would have to end up going out to a third party and maybe getting hired help for the dev side of it.
Speaker: If you have the ability to dive in, I'm always really big on the company knowing how to operate all pieces.
Speaker: And if in case anything goes wrong or something breaks, then you already have the people that can fix it right away.
Speaker: Yeah, that'd be crazy idea.
Speaker: The interesting thing that I've been seeing in this space, and I'd be curious to get your take on it.
Speaker: There are a lot of people that have...
Speaker: a they have the felt problem.
Speaker: They have the OK, my data is all over the place.
Speaker: None of this is good.
Speaker: It's not doing me any good.
Speaker: I can't take advantage of any of this stuff.
Speaker: And I also know that on top of this, I need to add in automation and need to have this amazing
Speaker: feature that I know I have available to me, but I can't use it.
Speaker: They're just right in that middle of the right.
Speaker: I've got no time.
Speaker: I don't want to go to the whole external do buy something that someone can customize for me kind of thing.
Speaker: They're looking for that kind of first
Speaker: step?
Speaker: Like what?
Speaker: How do I even start down this journey?
Speaker: And you've been through this selection journey here recently.
Speaker: So I'd be curious what sort of insight you can give to people for, hey, if you're truly at this point where you know there's probably better, here's that kind of first step I would take in the first places I would start looking.
Speaker: Yeah, so I think what you're touching upon is certainly something that we're going through, we've gone through and are going through again actively.
Speaker: And it's, you're sitting on all of this data, you're sitting on a ton of unused equity, essentially, it's a lot of data that is sitting there.
Speaker: And you're not confident that the data is up to date.
Speaker: And so what do you do?
Speaker: At that point, there's more or less these cleanup campaigns where you need to bubble up the individuals and your database that are job seekers and the ones that aren't and start classifying.
Speaker: And so there's ways of doing that.
Speaker: You can do it with email drip campaigns.
Speaker: And you don't necessarily, if you don't have the email software, you can get pretty good email software elsewhere for a reasonable price.
Speaker: There's a bunch of them.
Speaker: I'm not going to go ahead and name them, but setting up an email drip campaign saying, hey, we came across your information.
Speaker: You had at some point expressed interest in working with us and wanted to find out if that's still the case.
Speaker: And then right away, as you're getting responses, you're having the ability to then you could automatically trigger an update to their status, whatever status field is sitting in the ATS to say,
Speaker: verified no longer interested or verified interested.
Speaker: And then the ones that are interested, you can further filter them over to a recruiter to say, Hey, call this person and find out what's going on and what they want and see what we can work out.
Speaker: That's probably one of the easiest broad strokes on cleaning up data.
Speaker: It also depends on like just how, how messy the data has become, but there are complex, you know,
Speaker: issues around that where you have to be methodical and think through things.
Speaker: Email is usually the best bet.
Speaker: If you have the ability to do text messaging because they have opted in, then I would absolutely go that route because your open rate and response rate is going to be that much better over email.
Speaker: But if nothing else, email cleanup with a mass email and filtering them through, but then also having that update your system.
Speaker: even if it has to be manual where you're sending out the mass email and then people are giving responses to a dedicated inbox and you have people just more or less looking at the responses there and updating the statuses, that's better than nothing.
Speaker: It just depends again on the scenario and how bad it is or, you know, we could get lost in this rabbit hole for a while.
Speaker: But those are probably the two easiest ways of going through just a quick data cleansing and updating
Speaker: you know, statuses for people so that you have adequate allocated resources from your recruiters.
Speaker: So the last thing you want to do is provide a database of, say, 500,000 people and all of them are marked the same status because recruiters aren't going to know, you know, whether today is going to be a good day or a bad day.
Speaker: All they're going to know is that they have a lot of calls and, you know, touch points to commit to.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, that'd be a fun one, like trying to clean up someone's multiple thousands of people database it with a couple of email campaigns.
Speaker: But I mean, it works.
Speaker: I appreciate the logic that you put into that.
Speaker: It makes complete sense to me.
Speaker: One of the interesting points of knowledge that you may be able to share with others is I know from how we've interacted together that you hit this one point as an organization when you were like, OK,
Speaker: Our tech is definitely not helping us out at this point.
Speaker: There's got to be something better.
Speaker: Walk me through kind of that point where you all realize there was a pain and what was surfacing because what I'm seeing in the market and what I'm talking to a lot of people about is
Speaker: they don't realize how much pain they're having to live with because they don't ask questions internally of like, is this really something we have to put up with?
Speaker: So what was, at least in your case, some of the pain that you were putting up with so that others can maybe be like, oh, yeah, me too, because I know the journey that you're on and it's going to be way better than you were.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the issue that we were coming up against is basically we had our end users, which in this case are recruiters and salespeople, even some management.
Speaker: And they were saying, like, I know this data is available inside of our system, but we can't access it other than getting exports from myself.
Speaker: And I...
Speaker: Because of that, there was a lot of communication that's happening in email going back and forth to different team members of different departments.
Speaker: And so it was basically just an access to data issue.
Speaker: And so we had to migrate to a new system where data is accessible by all parties involved.
Speaker: So then we just completely kind of transformed overnight.
Speaker: this old antiquated process of having to email other people for data that they need to do their jobs effectively and to follow up on things within a reasonable timeframe.
Speaker: So for us, it was just a recognition that, okay, we're suffering just from like too much communication all because the data
Speaker: isn't available to everyone.
Speaker: And that's a huge thing I would say in any company is having data and communication.
Speaker: Those two things are kind of married together.
Speaker: And so whenever you can bring them together so that everybody has access and it's an even playing field and you're able to actually take actionable
Speaker: processes to get updates out to those who need it.
Speaker: And so for us, it was a matter of like, okay, we have data, some people can access it, somebody, some people can, and everybody needs to.
Speaker: So what do we do?
Speaker: And it was like, we need to get into a new system where there's no constraints here on this.
Speaker: And are you finding it to be like, is the juice worth the squeeze, so to speak?
Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker: Like unequivocally, it is 100% worth the squeeze.
Speaker: It can be complex initially because you do want to set up permissions, right?
Speaker: Not everybody should have added access to this data, but read as a fundamental yes.
Speaker: And so that was kind of the scenario that we were in.
Speaker: We wanted to have the recruiters and the sales team have read access to data that they should have always had access to without having to rely on some type of external process where it's taking time out of their day.
Speaker: to do things that are, again, are kind of administrative.
Speaker: Like we want them to be focusing in on their clientele, their customers, their job seekers, et cetera, especially because we're working on, you know, being obsessed with customers and client interactions.
Speaker: I feel like
Speaker: Again, taking a page out of Amazon, not that I'm like, Jeff Bezos isn't paying me royalties, everybody.
Speaker: But, you know, looking at what they have done, it just seems like that is a process that more and more people are expecting in other industries.
Speaker: And it's just not there yet.
Speaker: But I think it's coming.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: It's getting there.
Speaker: One of the interesting things that you may be able to provide to others, because
Speaker: you guys are currently going through this kind of switch and you're living it all day, every day.
Speaker: Yes, we know that people, if they're feeling this kind of data pain, that there might be other options for you.
Speaker: There might be a better solution out there, but you're currently in the midst of, I don't know, you're a couple of months in, at least at this point of this transition.
Speaker: What's something that's come up that you didn't really expect that maybe hindsight you might've approached differently.
Speaker: Anything come up that you can help people avoid?
Speaker: You know, I will say that we took deliberately a lot of time to think through all the processes that we wanted to beforehand.
Speaker: So luckily we haven't had any significant bottlenecks where it was like,
Speaker: a discovery of something that was unexpected.
Speaker: And that's rare, but I would say that one of the things that I can give an example is what we did is for SMS opting in, right?
Speaker: So when you have a database that's really large and you've had
Speaker: who knows 50 to a hundred sources where you've gotten this information for job seekers.
Speaker: It's hard to say for certain, whether or not people have opted in to being reached out via text.
Speaker: And for that reason, we only went with the sources that we were a hundred percent certain that they were fine to receive text messaging.
Speaker: But without that,
Speaker: And if we were to blanket everybody, then you could get into some serious hot water.
Speaker: And that's not something that we want to do.
Speaker: So for us, we were lucky.
Speaker: Some of the pain points that we've had is just trying to set up new things with tech and different systems.
Speaker: While we have a system that is perfectly capable of handling a lot, we don't want to bog down the computing power of all the processes that we have.
Speaker: already in the system.
Speaker: So we had to basically make a mirror database system and then connect it to our existing system so that we could use the compute power from the other system and just pull in results.
Speaker: So we have that type of technology.
Speaker: And again, that's not something that any
Speaker: one individual necessarily had on the front end, but because we had the ability to allocate some resources and there's people who are very much so passionate about researching some of the new tech, they're able to dive in and figure these things out.
Speaker: So it's rewarding in that sense to see individuals on the team grow and learn new things.
Speaker: And I think that they are, they would be the first ones to be like, yeah, this has been fantastic.
Speaker: There's been plenty of days where I'm like, what do I do?
Speaker: Uh, there's a lot of really solid resources out on the online nowadays that you can figure pretty much anything out.
Speaker: As long as you're willing to, to go through some of the more confusing nights of like, what, how do I figure this out and just keep trying and keep trying and correcting corrective action.
Speaker: And then it'll work out.
Speaker: Well, what I'm hearing and what I admire about how you're approaching things is you didn't, you purposefully didn't want to stay on a system and be like, well, this is just how things are.
Speaker: You purposely went into a lot of the tech that's out there.
Speaker: A lot of people are looking at buying that thing like, well, what features does it have?
Speaker: Like that may not be the way that you'd advocate that people go buy software.
Speaker: Instead, you'd probably look at what features can I make it have?
Speaker: Like what, how extensible truly is this thing I'm about to put my entire business on top of?
Speaker: Because if it can't do what I want to do from my standpoint, not what can it do, right?
Speaker: Like, do I have to recruit the way this software is laid out?
Speaker: Do I have to run my business the way this one software is laid out?
Speaker: But instead you approach things and how I advocate that other people start going and selecting technology is what do I want to make it do?
Speaker: What do I if I could choose my recruiting process from start to finish?
Speaker: What would it truly look like?
Speaker: And what are the platforms that will allow me to get to that point?
Speaker: And that's something that I don't think a lot of people are doing.
Speaker: So I think that's really cool about how you all are approaching things.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: And we appreciate that.
Speaker: I mean, at the end of the day for us, we were looking at things that we could scale, right?
Speaker: Because you're going to start a company as a startup, but years later, what do you want it to look like then?
Speaker: And so it's really important to kind of have the foresight of this is how we're going to start, but where's the finish line for us?
Speaker: And
Speaker: Do we want to grow?
Speaker: Because not all companies that start up want to end up growing into a multi-million, multi-billion dollar business.
Speaker: But if you have the want to provide a lot of jobs to individuals as recruiters or sales reps and have them generate money for themselves and their families and loved ones, et cetera, and you want to
Speaker: take it a step further and provide a great service to those who are seeking jobs, whether it be the healthcare field, IT field, any field for that matter, and you want that experience to be top notch, bar none, then you may want to really think
Speaker: long and hard about scalability and what systems you can take on that you might be able to customize for the better in the long run.
Speaker: All those things take time and it's just a matter of kind of being a think tank, like having individuals in your company that are your think tank for you is really beneficial, I would say, because then you can steer the company how you see fit and the long run is going to end up being so much better.
Speaker: I could not agree more.
Speaker: 100% agree with what you're saying there.
Speaker: Well, there was one quote that you gave me that led me to think, oh, my gosh, Frank, why aren't you telling this to more people?
Speaker: And I want to read it out to everyone, because I think this is all encompassing of what you've been telling us so far.
Speaker: The quote that you said was, there's nothing more rewarding than to give people the tools that they use to do their best.
Speaker: And that sounds like how you're approaching things.
Speaker: And I want to commend you on that because not a lot of people are thinking about how is this going to make my end users lives better and make our recruiters more productive and make them actually have a better experience at their job.
Speaker: So commend you on that one, man.
Speaker: That's an amazing way to think about it.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: Appreciate that.
Speaker: It is true.
Speaker: That is the most rewarding thing.
Speaker: And it's not even just necessarily tech tools.
Speaker: When I ran our training program, I was training them not only on how to be successful at the company, but also how to be successful at anything that they do.
Speaker: And it was the three C's.
Speaker: And I live by the three C's like every day of my life.
Speaker: It's basically content, context, competence.
Speaker: And so you got to learn the content of what the organization does, whether it's selling products or selling services.
Speaker: Then you have to understand the context in which you're selling those products or selling the services.
Speaker: And then from there, when you completely understand the first two, you can actually build competence.
Speaker: And from there, you can do that with anything.
Speaker: You can learn something brand new, understand the context in which it's applied, and then you can really become competent and
Speaker: I mean, you look on the back of a dollar bill and you see the pyramid with the apex of the pyramid being above.
Speaker: It's not actually connected to the base.
Speaker: And it's basically telling you the three C's right there.
Speaker: If you have the contact and the context, you can develop competence and be the apex of the pyramid.
Speaker: And then you can go on top of other bases because all of them run the same way.
Speaker: You understand the content, you understand the context.
Speaker: Building competence is just a matter of time and dedication.
Speaker: And then from there, you can really be successful.
Speaker: So those are some of the things that
Speaker: And teaching new hires and recruiters that are really looking to have a profession in the field, that was probably the most rewarding.
Speaker: And I've seen how it's helped a lot of individuals throughout their lives so far.
Speaker: I mean, I've been at my current company for about seven years and just watching some of them grow.
Speaker: organically has been a lot of fun and things that they'll point out has been a lot of fun as well.
Speaker: So it's good overall.
Speaker: I have no complaints.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm going to
Speaker: Leave the podcast on that amazing nugget.
Speaker: So thank you so much, Frank, for spending some time with us and telling people a little bit about how you're approaching this whole recruiting tech thing.
Speaker: I think it's an awesome, refreshing way.
Speaker: And I hope more people take on the same kind of path.
Speaker: I will put your LinkedIn in the show notes for everyone to be able to connect with you.
Speaker: So everyone reach out to Frank here on LinkedIn.
Speaker: It'll be in the show notes.
Speaker: If you like what you heard today and you want to hear a little bit more about how others are transforming the recruiting industry, you can find more at transformrecruiting.com.
Speaker: If you've got any questions for me, I'll happily pass them along to Frank as well.
Speaker: You can email hello at bradowens.com.
Speaker: Hello at bradowens.com.
Speaker: Happy to pass those along.
Speaker: And I will see everyone on the next episode.
Speaker: Thanks so much, Frank.
Speaker: Thank you very much, Brad.
