Podcast Notes: Alice Dreger General: The Index Case by Molly Macallen, the first novel in the Maddy Shanks series. Published on Lulu. Visit Alice’s website: https://alicedreger.com/ Follow: Follow Alice on Twitter https://twitter.com/AliceDreger?s=20&t=CDzQ-0LkFfFGhqph0trBOQ Articles and books: Alice’s non-fiction books: https://alicedreger.com/books/ Alice’s writing https://alicedreger.com/writing/ References: Visiting Your Leg Alice’s essay on the politics of anatomy. One of Us Alice’s book on anatomy and political and social identity. Dr Oz can't afford me Alice’s essay on exploitation by the entertainment industry. Lavish Dwarf Entertainment Alice’s essay on the entertainment agency. The New England Journal of Medicine. Altered Carbon the novel by Richard Morgan. The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca Skloot Alice's paper on the J Michael Bailey controversy. Alice and Colin Wright take part in a discussion about biological sex. Alice in Genderland by Richard Novic. Iona's essay on age gaps and relationships. Timestamps: 00.00 Opening and introductions. 4.17 Why a pseudonym for novel writing? 7.56 The themes of the book. 9.17 Alice reads the blurb from the novel. 11.26 Iona reads an excerpt from the novel. 16.46 Alice discusses how she and her protagonist’s areas of study echo each other; the politics of anatomy, how the body interacts with the world, the history of science and of medicine. How science has dealt with “interesting” bodies over the course of modern history. 21.57 How power works in relationships between doctors and people with “interesting” bodies. Alice discusses how her non-fiction book One of Us addresses this, with reference to Eng and Chang Bunker, the original “Siamese twins”. 26.58 Alice talks about the historical and contemporary exhibition of bodies; how some individuals are exhibited and exploited and how some with “unusual” bodies make money from their own bodies. 30.13 Iona reads more. Alice discusses the shift of science away from storytelling to depersonalised, anonymised specimens. 35.09 The New England Journal of Medicine as an outlier to this phenomenon. 36.55 Iona refers to Altered Carbon, the novel, and the ethical and philosophical questions about what it means to be a person and about bodily intergration. 40.00 Iona and Alice talk about eugenics, disabilities and autism research and about anatomy and identity and what personhood is. How identity has changed over time away from the body and towards external signifiers. How this is explored in the novel. 43.16 Who has the right to use dead bodies? How the government may control bodies, eg: dying people isolated during the covid pandemic. 47.00 How the order of the books in the series came about. The Difficult Subject, book two, will be coming out soon. Themes around sexuality. 48.35 Alice’s enjoyment of fiction writing vs. enjoyment of non-fiction writing. 51.13 Michael Bailey and his writing on autogynephilia and transgender identities. Do we have an innate sense of gender? Alice’s recent debate with Colin Wright. How The Difficult Subject relates to these themes. 58.41 The unethical relationship in the novel. How power works in this relationship. Sex scenes and sexuality in the novels. 1.01.45 The abusive relationship in the series and Alice’s own experience. Controversy around the framing of trauma. 1.08.45 More on the development of the series. The Worst Thing will be book three. Reception of the first novel. 1.15.00 Why self-publish? Published via Lulu. 1.19.55 Summing up and outro.

139 - Alice Dreger: Unusual Bodies

137 - Akiva Cohen: The Great Chess Cheating Scandal by Iona Italia

137 - Akiva Cohen: The Great Chess Cheating Scandal

138 - Rio Veradonir - Nowt as Queer as Folk by Iona Italia

138 - Rio Veradonir - Nowt as Queer as Folk

General Visit John’s academic webpage for more information on his publications: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/english/people/john-mullan John’s book ‘What Matters in Jane Austen: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved’: https://www.amazon.com/What-Matters-Jane-Austen-Crucial/dp/B00BNI1Z8Y Jane Austen’s books: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/68 References Iona’s Areo article ‘Writing Wrongs: Why Academics Write So Badly and How That Hurts Them’: https://areomagazine.com/2020/07/06/writing-wrongs-why-academics-write-so-badly-and-how-that-hurts-them/ Timestamps 0:00 Opening and introduction, with some remarks on obscurity and lucidity in academic writing. 3:30 Austen as revolutionary literary stylist: Iona reads from John’s book on her. 8:15 Iona reads a passage from Austen’s ‘Persuasion’. 12:11 John discusses Austen’s techniques in this passage, particularly her innovation in creating free indirect style. 21:03 Iona reads the next couple of paragraphs of ‘Persuasion’; further discussion of Austen’s subtle techniques and themes follows. 30:20 The importance of male sexuality in Austen (“in want of a wife”). 38:46 Austen’s underrated comic genius. 47:00 More on Austen’s men: rakes, celibates, and premarital sex. 54:25 Marriage, sex, and finality in Austen (and marriage as permanent fate in literature more generally). 1:05:00 Idiolects and character in Austen (and the controversy over Austen on the ten pound note). 1:14:20 Austen’s writing is both very simple and richly complex. 1:18:31 The importance of “impossible!” in Austen. 1:19:21 John’s advice for re-reading Austen and some final reflections on her work. 1:23:11 Last words and outro.

136 - John Mullan

General Visit Brett’s website, where you can find his blog and much more: https://www.bretthall.org/ Follow Brett on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tokteacher Subscribe to Brett’s YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCmP5H2rF-ER33a58ZD5jCig?sub_confirmation=1 References Iona’s Substack essay, in which she previously described Brett as a philosopher—a description with which Brett disagreed: https://drionaitalia.substack.com/p/knots-gather-at-the-comb Karl Popper’s philosophy: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/popper/ Massimo Pigliucci’s Two for Tea appearance: https://m.soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/55-massimo-pigliucci David Deutsch’s ‘The Beginning of Infinity’: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0143121359/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1658005291&sr=8-1 Daniel James Sharp’s Areo review of Ord’s ‘The Precipice’: https://areomagazine.com/2020/05/11/we-contain-multitudes-a-review-of-the-precipice-existential-risk-and-the-future-of-humanity-by-toby-ord/ David Hume and the problem of induction: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/ Natural selection and the Neo-Darwinian synthesis: https://www.britannica.com/science/neo-Darwinism Richard Dawkins’s ‘The Extended Selfish Gene’: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01MYDYR6N/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1658008393&sr=8-3 Theory-ladenness: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory-ladenness Ursula K. Le Guin’s ‘The Left Hand of Darkness’: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1473221625/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1658010065&sr=8-1 The Popperian ‘paradox of tolerance’ cartoon: https://images.app.goo.gl/MEbujAKv2VSp1m4B8 For the Steven Pinker Two for Tea interview on ‘Rationality’, stay tuned to the Two for Tea podcast feed as it’s coming soon for public listening: https://m.soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast Brett’s critique of Bayesianism: https://www.bretthall.org/bayesian-epistemology.html Brett on morality: https://www.bretthall.org/morality Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0525561994/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1658012700&sr=8-1 Timestamps 00:00 Opening and introduction. What, exactly, is Brett? What does he do? 4:58 Free speech and Popperian thought (and what is Popperian thought, anyway?). 12:24 Brett’s view on existential risk and the future; how he differs from the likes of Martin Rees and Toby Ord. 22:38 How can we overcome ‘acts of God’? (With reference to Iona’s syphilitic friend.) The dangers of the unknown and the necessity of progress. 26:50 The unpredictability of the nature of problems, with reference to fear of nuclear war and nuclear energy. The nature and history of problem solving, particularly as regards energy. 37:02 The Popperian/Deutschian theory of knowledge—guesswork, creativity, and the reduction of error. 46:50 William Paley’s watch, Darwinism, selfish genes, and the embedding of knowledge into reality. 54:15 On theory-ladenness, the necessity of error correction, the power of science, and the impossibility of a final theory—all is approximation and continual improvement. 1:01:10 The nature of good explanations, with reference to the invocation of gods vs scientific accounts and the nature of the atom. 1:07:24 How the principle of the difficulty of variability is important in art as well as science, with reference to Ursula K. Le Guin’s ‘The Left Hand of Darkness.’ ‘Aha’ vs ‘what the fuck?’ surprise. 1:15:30 The nature of critical thinking and Brett on education: the misconceptions inherent in the current fashion for teaching critical thinking. 1:26:10 A question for Brett from Twitter: what did Popper really think about tolerance and intolerance (see the famous cartoon on the paradox of tolerance)? 1:36:24 Is there anything else Brett would like to add?

135 - Brett Hall

General Visit Richard’s website to find out more about him and how to buy his books, including the main subject of this conversation, Richard’s award-winning 2002 novel ‘Altered Carbon’: https://www.richardkmorgan.com/ References About Richard: https://www.richardkmorgan.com/about-the-author/ Ewan Morrison’s Areo article ‘Why We Must Walk Away from Omelas: The Problem with Utopias’: https://areomagazine.com/2020/08/27/why-we-must-walk-away-from-omelas-the-problem-with-utopias/ Timestamps 0:00 Opening and introduction (and a confession from Iona): the great weight of ‘Altered Carbon’ in Richard’s career. 6:01 Iona reads a passage from ‘Altered Carbon’. 12:30 Richard and Iona discuss the passage, the underlying premises of the novel, and Richard’s visual imagination and writing style over the years. 27:30 ‘Re-sleeving’ and ‘download central’ in ‘Altered Carbon’ and the themes and inspirations behind them. 30:29 Iona’s ambiguity towards the Netflix adaptation of ‘Altered Carbon’: comparisons with the novel. 37:23 More on the ‘sleeves’ in ‘Altered Carbon’: how the rich and powerful get the best from the system and what this tells us about the nature of wealth and capitalism and the trajectory we’re on. “The endless co-option of life and all its pleasures” by the wealthy. 47:18 The theme of identity in ‘Altered Carbons’ (compared to Iain M. Banks’ treatment of it in his ‘Culture’ novels). Richard’s dystopian vision vs. Banks’s utopian vision. Can technology take us to the sunlit uplands or, as Richard says, does the fact that we will always ultimately be “violent apes” constrain the possibilities of progress? The need for eternal Enlightenment vigilance. 1:03:13 Arguing with a Buddhist about karmic balance: the origins of ‘Altered Carbon’. 1:06:31 Sci fi traditions: is ‘Altered Carbon’ genre fiction or literary fiction? 1:08:36 Which authors have most influenced Richard? Who are his favourites? Plus: Iona on what influences she saw in ‘Altered Carbon’ and some reflections on Ursula K. Le Guin. 1:25:02 Some more debate on optimism, the future, and human nature. 1:31:25 Is there anything Richard would have liked to discuss but didn’t get the chance to? The noir tradition, Richard’s argument with trans rights activists over ‘Altered Carbon’ and J.K. Rowling, the misunderstanding of his novel as championing essentialism/the existence of souls, and the death of the author. 1:37:25 Iona reads another passage from ‘Altered Carbon’. 1:40:42 Last words and outro.

134 - Richard Morgan - Altered Carbon

General Visit Louise’s website: https://www.louisemperry.co.uk/ Buy Louise’s book ‘The Case Against the Sexual Revolution: A New Guide to Sex in the 21st Century’: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Sexual-Revolution/dp/1509549994 Follow Louise on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Louise_m_perry References ‘Lady Windermere’s Fan’ by Oscar Wilde: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/790/790-h/790-h.htm Rachel Moran’s ‘Paid For: My Journey Through Prostitution’: https://www.amazon.com/Paid-My-Journey-Through-Prostitution/dp/0393351971 ‘Aella - Sex Work in the Digital Age’ Two for Tea episode: https://soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/82-aella-sex-work-in-the-digital-age Timestamps 0:00 Opening and introduction. 4:11 Iona reads a passage from Louise’s book ‘The Case Against the Sexual Revolution’. 9:33 Iona argues against the view that conservative mores protect women from harassment and rape better than liberal ones; discussion ensues on this, the promiscuity double standard, the Madonna/Whore complex, and more. 17:22 Does the sacralisation of sex protect women? Does desacralisation improve things for women? Is sex special? Plus: why women are choosier and the perils of prostitution. 27:40 The trouble with universalising, Gen Z’s (lack of?) sex lives, porn, and the rise of OnlyFans. How does this all tie into/effect Louise’s thesis? 34:32 Does a more public sexual culture help or hinder women? Does sexually violent porn make for sexually violent men? 42:17 Are some desires wrong? Why would anyone agree to or seek out, for example, sexual relationships involving subservient BDSM? Is liberalism enough to understand and resolve such issues? 53:00 Last words and outro.

133 - Louise Perry - The Case Against the Sexual Revolution

General Visit Andrew’s website: https://www.andrewscurran.com/ Find out more about Andrew’s books, including ‘The Anatomy of Blackness: Science and Slavery in an Age of Enlightenment’ and his co-edited, with Henry Louis Gates, Jr., volume ‘Who’s Black and Why? A Hidden Chapter from the Eighteenth-Century Invention of Race’, which are the focus of this podcast: https://www.andrewscurran.com/books-gallerypage Follow Andrew on Twitter: https://twitter.com/andrewscurran References Andrew’s previous appearance on Two for Tea discussing Diderot: https://soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/42-andy-curren-diderot-intellectual-libertine Olaf Stapledon’s novel ‘Sirius’: https://www.amazon.com/Sirius-Olaf-Stapledon/dp/0575099429/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1656949127&sr=8-2 Theory-ladenness: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory-ladenness David Deutsch’s ‘The Beginning of Infinity’, in which he discusses theory-ladenness: https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Infinity-Explanations-Transform-World/dp/0143121359 Coleman Hughes’s conversation with Charles Murray on race, science, and IQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE5QcD_12fQ David Deutsch’s Edge essay on the link between the factual understanding of reality and morality: https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Infinity-Explanations-Transform-World/dp/0143121359 Sunil Khilnani’s book ‘Incarnations: A History of India in Fifty Lives’: https://www.amazon.com/Incarnations-History-India-Fifty-Lives/dp/0374175497 Timestamps 00:00 Opening and introduction. 3:24 Andrew reads from the introduction to ‘Who’s Black and Why?’ on the Bordeaux Academy’s interest in African anatomy and ‘scientific’ race theorising. 9:08 Why did a focus on racial physiognomy arise in the middle of the 18th century? Plus background on the Enlightenment and the radical shift in ways of thinking about the world. 14:19 The Biblical narrative of the origins of race - Noah’s sons and the ‘snowflake’ Old Testament God - and 18th-century theories of degeneration. Monogenesis vs. polygenesis. Implications of these views and their place in the Enlightenment paradigm - the world is not fixed, but has a history of development and change. 23:38 ‘Theory-laden observations’ as related to 18th-century thinking about race and humanity. 26:30 Iona reads an excerpt about Diderot and Voltaire’s views on race and slavery from ‘Who’s Black and Why?’. 33:45 Continued discussion of the link between racial theorising and racism. 46:27 Iona on the instability of being anti-slavery while being racist, with reference to Olaf Stapledon’s novel ‘Sirius’. Ensuing discussion of this theme by Andrew as related to the 18th-century - the legal and then scientific reality of categorising people. 54:54 Iona’s relief that her Enlightenment hero Samuel Johnson is, as far as she knows, untainted by racial theorising. 1:03:02 The contemporary debate on race and IQ. Can we really divorce the is from the ought? Iona’s changing view on this after reading ‘Who’s Black and Why?’. Nature vs nurture and Charles Murray. 1:09:59 The Deutschian idea that a better understanding of reality is linked to better morality. 18th-century thinkers on race and their blindspots - many of their assertions could easily have been disproved just by looking - black blood, black semen, black brains. 1:15:35 The literal obsession with colour - skin colour must be reflected in interior anatomy. The disturbing and telling 18th-century view of albinism - ‘white negroes’ - and vitiligo and racial voyeurism. 1:23:30 Racial essentialism vs the many mixed-race people. Again - how close so many 18th-century thinkers got to the truth, yet how far. 1:26:52 Is there anything Andrew would like to say that hasn’t been covered in this conversation? 1:27:27 Andrew’s upcoming book - a biographical history of race. 1:33:11 Last words and outro.

132 - Andrew Curran - Who's Black and Why?

General Visit Steven’s website, which includes information about all his books,
including his latest, ‘Rationality’, and how to purchase them:
https://stevenpinker.com/ Follow Steven on Twitter: https://twitter.com/sapinker
Timestamps 00:00 Opening and introduction. 2:17 The conventional wisdom that
humans are irredeemably irrational is wrong: rationality is actually prevalent
and innate. Iona reads passages from Steven’s newest book ‘Rationality: What It
Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters’ about the “scientific mindset” of
hunter-gatherers. 8:09 The evolution of human rationality - our
“environmental/ecological rationality.” The “premature consensus” that humans
are fundamentally irrational. But why are we so bad at dealing with logical
problems in the modern world? How to reconcile this apparent paradox - a new
conceptualisation of human rationality: we become expert logicians when logical
problems are presented in concrete, human-relevant ways and when we are pursuing
goals. 18:32 William James’s example of Romeo and Juliet as rational actors
pursuing a goal (as opposed to iron filings attracting each other). 20:07 An
analogy with quantum theory’s unintuitiveness. The mismatch between our
ancestral environment(s) and our modern environment(s): we didn’t evolve to
apply the tools of science. The roots and varieties of irrationality. 24:18 How
does ‘Rationality’ relate to Steven’s other work? What is the common thread
throughout all of his work? 34:30 On lightly held irrational beliefs - distal
vs. testable beliefs, the “willing suspension of disbelief”, and indulging in
irrationality. Why do we hold such beliefs? Why does fiction appeal to us? The
Enlightenment paradigm of verifying one’s beliefs - revolutionary and almost
unique in history, a mindset that we are not adapted to. 45:47 The real meaning
of David Hume’s famous statement that “Reason is, and ought only to be the slave
of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and
obey them.” 47:57 How do we get an ought from an is? How can morality be derived
from rationality? Iona reads a passage from ‘Rationality’ dealing with these
questions. Steven explains his view of how reason relates to ethics. 53:55 How
can reason be justified in the first place? Isn’t it circular to justify reason
using reason? 58:19 Base rates and group differences - does a contradiction
between rationality and morality lie here? 1:06:29 Difficulties in defining
categories and the family resemblances solution. Iona reads a passage about
pattern-finding, stereotypes, and fairness from ‘Rationality.’ Using abstract
rules to set aside stereotypes for purposes of law, morality, etc. Logic vs.
rationality. 1:12:48 Rationality’s relationship to progress. Many social justice
movements have begun with appeals to rationality and logical coherence: how can
a society claim, for example, to be against absolute monarchy yet allow men to
have total power over their wives? How rationality is a good guide to which
movements for change deserve support. 1:19:01 How highfalutin methods of logic
and reasoning are in fact at the centre of our everyday lives - we just
formalise them and we need to apply them more at all levels. 1:24:07 The current
“pandemic of poppycock” - is Steven optimistic about the future of rationality?
1:27:18 Iona reads a passage from the end of ‘Rationality.’ 1:28:55 Last words
and outro.

131 - Steven Pinker - Rationality

General Follow Matt on Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattjj89 Some of Matt’s
previous writing and speaking about Ukraine:
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-forget-nato-ukraine-s-problem-is-russian-imperialism-1.10576686
https://areomagazine.com/2022/02/25/putins-pointless-war/
https://www.callin.com/episode/matt-johnson-how-to-view-the-war-in-ukraine-MVpYFsdASZ
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/why-tucker-carlson-hates-ukraine-so-much-1.10746934
References Two for Tea episode featuring Matt, Daniel, and Ben Burgis on
Christopher Hitchens:
https://soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/113-about-chris-hitchens Some of Taras
Bilous’s writings from the frontlines of the war:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/a-letter-to-the-western-left-from-kyiv/
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/self-determination-and-the-war-in-ukraine
https://twitter.com/ahatanhel/status/1517440088879284224?s=20&t=yZ9bkeaWalWYIKSClWy3Eg
Timestamps 00:00 Opening and introduction. 2:05 Iona reads a passage from Matt’s
Areo essay ‘Putin’s Pointless War’ on the origins and causes of the Ukraine war.
5:00 Matt discusses the history and ideology behind the invasion of Ukraine.
7:10 Matt discusses the more immediate background to the Ukraine war, from 2013
on: Ukraine’s desire for closer relations with the EU, the Revolution of
Dignity, the annexation of Crimea, and more. Why Putin is a 19th-century leader.
10:38 The religious aspect of the war and Putin’s warped view of history. Why so
many fail to understand that Putin is just an imperialist and miss the mark by
talking about Russian security interests and NATO expansion. 15:22 Wouldn’t the
US be angry if Mexico joined a Chinese version of the Warsaw Pact? Why blaming
NATO expansion for the war is wrong. 20:00 What the Glenn Greenwald-style
anti-imperialist left and the Tucker Carlson-style isolationist right get wrong
about Ukraine and why (and how they overlap). 25:44 Isn’t Ukraine corrupt and
authoritarian? Aren’t Russia and Ukraine just as bad as each other? Isn’t
Zelensky illiberal? 28:58 What about the Azov Battalion? Isn’t Ukraine riddled
with fascism and neo-Nazism? 31:40 How the usual suspects on the
anti-imperialist left deny agency to Ukrainians, who want arms. Plus: The
Ukrainian socialist Taras Bilous, on the frontlines and for western arming of
Ukraine. Could Ukraine be a turning point for the left? 38:01 The war and the
news cycle. What’s actually happening on the ground now? What does the future of
the war look like? 42:24 Has Putin lost his edge? Has the invasion backfired on
him? Has he united the west again? And if so, how long will that unity last? Has
the western reaction to Russian expansionism come too late? Should the west’s
aim be to degrade Russia’s capability to wage such wars? Is a Ukrainian victory
possible? 51:23 What should the west be doing about Ukraine? Will Europe put up
with skyrocketing energy costs to help Ukraine? Will this lead to an upsurge in
support for politicians like Le Pen? 53:31 Could Putin use nukes? Might he
escalate the war? 58:18 A strange question about elites from Twitter for Matt.
1:03:08 The effects of the war on energy in Europe and attitudes to nuclear
power. The war as an advertisement for nuclear power. Plus: the intransigence
and greed of the oil companies and OPEC countries. 1:06:16 An aside: the
grotesque mystery of America selling its soul to Saudi Arabia. 1:08:00 Is there
anything Matt didn’t get the chance to say but wanted to? Yes! Matt on the flaws
of realism in the study of international relations: why political culture
matters. 1:12:10 Last words and outro.

130 - Mark Schatzker - The Lost Wisdom of Eating Well

Areo Magazine's Two for Tea podcast is hosted by Iona Italia. For early access
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Two for Tea with Iona Italia and Helen Pluckrose