Impact isn’t a vibe — it’s measurable. This week I’m joined by Neil Callanan, LooseGrip founder and creator of the GRASP Impact Framework, to unpack how storytelling can stand up to scrutiny and move both culture and the bottom line.



What You’ll Learn in This Episode

 * How the GRASP Impact Framework helps brands get a real grasp on the effectiveness of their stories
 * Why consumptive metrics like time spent with content matter more than views or impressions
 * How activism and values-driven marketing can influence both culture and commercial outcomes
 * The importance of authenticity and intentionality in purpose-driven brand storytelling
 * Ways to communicate impact internally so leadership sees the value and potential risks clearly

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(00:18) Opening remarks

(00:30) Welcome and first impressions of GRASP

(01:05) Explaining the GRASP Impact Framework

(02:55) Legos and dashboards metaphor for data

(06:15) Storytelling plus analytics for brand impact

(10:02) Halo effect and connecting activism to outcomes

(24:52) Brand that made Neil smile recently

(27:03) Where to find Neil and learn more



Neil Callanan is the founder of LooseGrip and creator of the GRASP Impact Framework, a system that helps mission-driven brands translate storytelling into measurable business outcomes. With over 15 years of experience aligning activism and analytics for brands like Unilever and Ben & Jerry’s, Neil specializes in helping companies prove that purpose-driven marketing can drive sales, culture, and social impact simultaneously. He combines data, narrative, and strategy to help leaders measure and defend their impact at every level.

What Brand Has Made Neil Smile Recently? Neil shared that Rivian has impressed him with its attention to detail and customer experience. From a Halloween mode in their electric trucks to playful Easter eggs in their app, Rivian creates joyful and memorable experiences for drivers and families. Neil appreciates how their intentional brand efforts foster engagement, loyalty, and advocacy, even if the company is still ironing out the challenges of being a new brand.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Neil on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilcallanan/].
 * Learn more about LooseGrip [https://loosegrip.net/] and the GRASP Impact Framework [https://www.graspyourimpact.com/].
 * Here’s the episode of On Brand Neil and I discussed with our mutual friend Mike Hayes, formerly of Ben & Jerry's [https://www.nickwestergaard.com/living-the-brand-at-ben-jerrys-with-mike-hayes/] — from all the way back in 2015!

Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to help others find the show.
 * 

Measuring the Impact of Brand Activism

The secret to great creative work isn’t just the idea — it’s knowing how to get there. Toby Wilkinson, co-founder of Ask Us For Ideas, has spent the last decade helping brands navigate the messy world of agencies, briefs, and creative partnerships to make the process smoother, smarter, and more successful.



What You'll Learn

 * Why choosing the right agency is just as important as the creative work itself
 * How to align your team internally before starting the agency selection process
 * The “head and heart” test for evaluating agency fit
 * Common red flags and relationship pitfalls to watch for
 * How to leverage agency networks and insights to make smarter selections

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(00:30) Welcome Toby Wilkinson

(01:10) The story behind Ask Us For Ideas

(04:18) Defining the perfect agency fit

(08:40) The agency selection process step by step

(12:07) Red flags in agency relationships

(17:25) Navigating a shifting agency landscape

(21:17) Favorite success stories and brands that inspire

Toby Wilkinson is the co-founder of Ask Us For Ideas (AUFI), a company dedicated to helping brands find the right creative partners. Over the last decade, he has connected more than 2,000 brands — from startups to global companies — with agencies across branding, marketing, digital, social, and more. He is passionate about creating productive, long-term partnerships between brands and agencies and shares his insights through AUFI’s website, podcast, and Substack.

What Brand Has Made Toby Smile Recently? Toby has been enjoying the meal kit delivery company Mindful Chef. He appreciates the quality of the ingredients, the variety of meals, and the shared cooking experience it brings him and his wife, making it a meaningful part of his daily routine.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Toby on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/wilkinsontoby/].
 * As discussed, check out the AUFI website [https://www.aufi.com/], podcast [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/aufi-nick-toby/id1503903781?i=1000646745917], and Substack [https://substack.com/@emmalouisetucker].

Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to help others find the show.
 * Share this episode — email a friend or colleague [?subject=Check%20out%20this%20podcast%20episode&body=I%20thought%20you%20might%20like%20this%20podcast] this episode.
 * Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter [https://www.nickwestergaard.com/email/] for branding and storytelling tips.

On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network [https://marketingpodcasts.net/].

Until next week, I’ll see you on the In

Finding the Right Agency Partner

What does the producer of Wedding Crashers, Serendipity, and Van Wilder know about building brands? Turns out—a lot. This week on On Brand, Andrew Panay shares how Hollywood storytelling principles shape not just hit movies but also unforgettable brand stories for companies like T-Mobile, Microsoft, and Anheuser-Busch.



What You'll Learn

 * Why originality—not imitation—is still the most powerful creative strategy
 * How Hollywood storytelling principles can strengthen brand storytelling
 * The fine line between risk and reward in brand work
 * Why celebrating success starts with knowing your “why”
 * How T-Mobile’s storytelling edge became a creative advantage

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(00:30) From Hollywood to branding

(02:00) The disconnect between filmmakers and brands

(03:30) What Wedding Crashers teaches us about 30-second storytelling

(05:00) Capturing attention in seconds, not minutes

(08:00) Creativity, evolution, and staying uncomfortable

(10:40) Originality vs imitation in marketing

(20:30) Balancing elegant risk with commercial success

(25:00) The brand that made Andrew smile

(27:30) Where to learn more about Panay Films



Andrew Panay is the founder and CEO of Panay Films and a veteran Hollywood producer whose movies—including Wedding Crashers, Serendipity, and Van Wilder—have grossed more than $800 million worldwide. Beyond film and television, Panay brings his storytelling craft to branded content and advertising for companies such as T-Mobile, Microsoft, and Anheuser-Busch. His signature approach blends cinematic storytelling with strategic brand thinking, creating work that moves audiences—and the business forward.

What Brand Has Made Andrew Smile Recently? Andrew pointed to Nike for a recent campaign during the World Series. The spot used a clever mashup of sound, attitude, and nostalgia—culminating with Ken Griffey Jr.’s signature backward cap and mischievous grin. For Andrew, it was the perfect example of creative “juj”—that mix of confidence, playfulness, and truth that makes great storytelling irresistible.



Links and Resources

 * Connect with Panay Films on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/panayfilms].
 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to help others find the show.
 * Share this episode — email a friend or colleague [?subject=Check%20out%20this%20podcast%20episode&body=I%20thought%20you%20might%20like%20this%20podcast] this episode.
 * Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter [https://www.nickwestergaard.com/email/] for branding and storytelling tips.

On Brand is a part of the Marketing [https://marketingpodcasts.net/]

The Wedding Crashers Guide to Branding

What does it take to build one of the world’s top-rated social media management platforms—without a single dollar of outside funding? This week on On Brand, Emeric Ernoult, founder and CEO of Agorapulse, shares how he bootstrapped the company to over $20 million in revenue, pioneered ROI-tracking tools for social, and carved out a powerful niche in a crowded market. We talk scaling smart, making social media actually measurable, and where attribution is headed next.



What You'll Learn

 * How Agorapulse bootstrapped its way to $20M+ in revenue without outside funding
 * Why most startups chasing VC money miss what matters most for sustainable growth
 * How attribution has evolved—and why measuring ROI on social is harder than ever
 * The three ways marketers can actually track what’s working (and what’s not)
 * Why the future isn’t social media—it’s “interest media”

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(00:45) Bootstrapping Agorapulse the Hard Way

(03:40) The Realities of Going Without Funding

(07:20) Reinventing Through Growth and Churn

(08:50) From Social Media to Interest Media

(10:20) Why Attribution Is Broken

(17:50) Three Ways to Track ROI That Actually Work

(23:20) How Brands Can Win at Interest Media

(29:00) The Brand That Made Emeric Smile

About Emeric Ernoult

Emeric Ernoult is the founder and CEO of Agorapulse, one of the world’s top-rated social media management platforms. Bootstrapped from the ground up, Agorapulse has grown to more than $20 million in annual revenue—without taking a single dollar of outside funding. A pioneer in ROI-tracking for social media, Emeric has built his career around helping brands not just manage their social presence, but measure its real business impact. He’s a frequent speaker and writer on marketing measurement, leadership, and scaling companies the sustainable way.



What Brand Has Made Emeric Smile Recently?

Emeric shared that Alex Hormozi—the entrepreneur and content creator—made him smile recently. After attending Hormozi’s workshop in Las Vegas, Emeric was struck by his unfiltered mix of humor and humility. Hormozi’s perspective—that we’re all small in the grand scheme of things, so we might as well do good and enjoy the work—resonated deeply, especially after Emeric’s trip to the Grand Canyon and Zion National Park reminded him of life’s scale and simplicity.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Emeric on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ernoult/].
 * Check out the Agorapulse [https://www.agorapulse.com/] website.

Listen & Support

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to help others find the show.
 * Share this episode —

The Hard Way to Real ROI

How do the most visible leaders stay trusted and relevant in a noisy world? Danielle Sabrina has spent her career helping them do exactly that. As founder of Society22 PR, one of Inc. 5000’s fastest-growing firms, Danielle has guided CEOs, athletes, and celebrities in building credibility that scales. Named Female Entrepreneur of the Year and one of CIO’s Top 20 Female Entrepreneurs to Follow, she joins me to unpack how smart brands turn trust into momentum.



What You’ll Learn in This Episode

 * Why credibility is the new currency for brands and leaders
 * How founder-led storytelling drives growth and trust
 * What makes a story truly “media ready” in today’s crowded landscape
 * How to balance authenticity with strategy when managing your public persona
 * Lessons on scaling a creative business without losing your core

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(00:44) Credibility as the New Currency

(03:25) Why Founder Stories Matter

(05:03) PR Beyond Press Releases

(07:57) Balancing Authenticity and Strategy

(09:36) Finding the Right Story to Tell

(17:16) Turning Vulnerability into Strength

(21:25) Scaling with Integrity

(27:06) Brand That Made Danielle Smile



About Danielle Sabrina

Danielle Sabrina is an award-winning publicist and the founder of Society22 PR, one of Inc. 5000’s fastest-growing companies and ranked among the Top 10 National PR Firms. With more than 25 years of experience, she’s helped CEOs, athletes, and celebrities build credibility that drives growth. Named Female Entrepreneur of the Year and one of CIO’s Top 20 Female Entrepreneurs to Follow, Danielle’s insights on trust, storytelling, and media strategy have made her a leading voice in how brands earn attention and stay relevant.



What Brand Has Made Danielle Smile Recently?

Danielle shared that Skims has been making her smile lately — especially their creative brand collaborations with partners like The North Face. She admires how the brand’s constant stream of collabs keeps them culturally relevant and seemingly everywhere, even if she’d love to see them slow down just enough for us all to appreciate each one.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Danielle on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellesabrina/] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/daniellesabrina7].
 * Check out the Society22 PR [https://society22pr.com] website.



Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to help others find the show.
 * Share this episode — email a friend or c [?subject=Check%20out%20this%20podcast%20episode&body=I%20thought%20you%20might%20like%20this%20podcast]

Building Trust That Scales

How do brands really live in our minds? According to Ulli Applebaum, it’s all about associations — the complex web of meanings and emotions that define how people see your brand. This week on On Brand, the international strategy veteran and author of The Science of Brand Associations shares how we can use science, not guesswork, to build brands that stick.



What You'll Learn

 * Why brand associations are the “operating system” that shapes every strong brand
 * How science explains the way memories form—and how marketers can build stronger ones
 * The difference between positive and negative associations (and how to fix the latter)
 * Why distinctiveness and focus matter more than ever for new brands
 * Simple, science-backed tools to audit and strengthen your brand’s mental network

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(01:20) Why no one has written about brand associations—until now

(03:40) The brain science behind how brands live in memory

(06:20) Brand associations as your brand’s operating system

(08:00) How associations drive purchase and brand preference

(10:20) Managing negative brand associations

(14:50) What small brands can do to stand out

(23:50) The brand that’s made Ulli smile recently



Ulli Appelbaum is an internationally recognized brand strategist, consultant, and author with more than 25 years of experience shaping business-building strategies for some of the world’s top brands. Before launching his consultancy First The Trousers Then The Shoes, he held senior strategy roles at agencies including BBDO Germany, Leo Burnett Chicago, Fallon Worldwide, and SapientNitro. Ulli’s work has earned seven Effies and an ARF Ogilvy Award for Excellence in Research. His latest book, The Science of Brand Associations: Win Minds, Win Markets, is a first-of-its-kind guide to understanding and building the mental networks that make brands thrive.

What Brand Has Made Ulli Smile Recently? Ulli chose KitKat — a brand he’s admired for decades for its clever, humorous advertising and the enduring “Have a Break” positioning. He recalls a classic British TV spot where a photographer takes a break with a KitKat just as the panda he’s waiting to capture starts ice-skating behind him. It’s a moment that’s stuck in his mind for 25 years — proof, he says, of how powerful brand associations can be.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Ulli on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ulliappelbaum/].
 * Check out Ulli's new book, The Science of Brand Associations: Win Minds, Win Markets [https://www.amazon.com/Science-Brand-Associations-Minds-Markets/dp/B0FL2ZDW8Z/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.XIfw2Cby02mI958YvUM5s6R3gz31k6waWmpJoOVZSwxm6wPMrGVlU4WXlRdv9bPAH7PBRqBQeckqBaYJEYAtJEkgb6xKY_3FkEUlIrg0qWwUimn3C_2VlqEUG5rrioxR9SKaa72SDy6tJGUiDRe1ROZ1kB9i7vw19jpq39CjB_4sM33wlq200SAHicEssd24qKrtTS-lR9-FRkRwsO3_Vr0TK3_kkXAiUtThoNwMO7c.UuDQFHFKpXe3_vMQjtvvOWMOSxwcY_Acsz4IUdM10ys&dib_tag=se&keywords=brand+associations&qid=1761321862&sr=8-1].
 * You can also download the diagnostic tools we discussed on his website, First the Trousers [https://first-the-trousers.com/].
 * Want more of Ulli On Brand? Here’s his first visit [https://www.nickwestergaard.com/simple-brand-positioning-with-ulli-appelbaum/] back in 2023.
 * And, for fun, here's that KitKat ad [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGieVlmtuYE] that was such a powerful brand association for Ulli.

Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on 

The Hidden Science of Brand Associations

Geoff Cook’s career took off the night he met MoMA’s CMO—and helped create the iconic MoMA QNS brand. Since then, he’s shaped brands from MILK and NeueHouse to Times Talks, JFK Terminal 4, and the Prince Estate. Partner at Base, mentor at TechStars, and global culture expert, Geoff shares how bold branding can leave a lasting cultural impact.



What You'll Learn in This Episode

- How a single encounter can launch a career and define a creative trajectory

- Why human connection is at the heart of every successful brand experience

- The concept of “world-building” in branding and how it fosters community

- How to balance AI as a tool without losing creative originality

- Key considerations for branding early-stage companies and preserving cash



Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(00:33) Jeff Cook’s career breakthrough at MoMA

(02:10) Early lessons from DKNY and international branding

(04:07) Culture-driven branding from Milk to global institutions

(07:40) Translating cultural expertise to JFK Terminal 4

(10:09) World-building brands to foster human connection

(12:19) AI in creative work: opportunities and guardrails

(20:12) Mentoring early-stage companies and branding pitfalls

(26:27) Brands that make Jeff smile



About Geoff Cook

Geoff Cook's career catapulted on the night he met MoMA’s CMO at a Base party in Manhattan, where he discussed developing the institution’s new branding for its temporary museum in Queens. The project, MoMA QNS, was the first in a string of iconic brands he has helped to create, including MILK, NeueHouse, JFK Terminal 4, Iconiq, The New York Times' Times Talks & Food Festival, the Prince Estate, and countless others. Geoff approaches branding with a sharp understanding of business strategy and a finger on the pulse of global culture (he speaks four languages and savors local flavor everywhere he travels). As a partner at Base, Geoff asks companies big questions and helps answer them with unexpected, visionary solutions. The result is very often a profound cultural impact. Geoff also puts his branding acumen to use as a mentor at renowned tech accelerator, TechStars, and serves as a board member at Sentral.



What Brand Has Made Geoff Smile Recently?

Geoff is impressed by On, a Swiss-based athletic brand. He admires how On builds a cohesive, coherent world through product design, store experiences, and creative campaigns that surprise and delight. The combination of Swiss precision and playful, culturally relevant marketing makes On a standout in his eyes.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Geoff on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoff-cook-b587804/].
 * Check out the Base Design [https://www.basedesign.com/] website and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/base_design/].
 * Here's the Design Week article on AI [https://www.designweek.co.uk/how-is-base-design-using-ai/] we discussed.

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart</ [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/]

World-Building Brands in an AI Era

In this special bonus episode of On Brand: Taylor’s Version, now that The Life of a Showgirl is out in the world, we’re asking: what does this new era tell us about Taylor Swift? To explore, I’m joined by Joanna Weiss, editor of Harvard Magazine, journalist, and co-author of Taylor Swift: Album by Album, a deep dive into every era. Together, we’ll unpack how Showgirl fits into Taylor’s evolution and what this chapter reveals about her storytelling, strategy, and brand.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

 * How Life of a Showgirl fits into Taylor Swift’s evolution as an artist and storyteller
 * Why some fans are divided on this album — and what that says about the expectations Taylor sets with each new era
 * How Taylor balances real-life inspiration with fiction and character-driven songwriting
 * What her creative process and relentless work ethic reveal about brand storytelling and reinvention
 * Why Taylor’s storytelling genius is as much about community and connection as it is about the music

Episode Chapters

 * (00:00) Intro
 * (00:47) Welcome Joanna Weiss
 * (04:24) How the book Taylor Swift: Album by Album came together
 * (07:02) Early takes on Life of a Showgirl
 * (11:04) What makes an “era” — and how Showgirl fits in
 * (19:18) What Taylor’s saying with this album
 * (25:23) Her creative process and work ethic
 * (30:37) Money, power, and independence
 * (33:20) The Taylor song that makes Joanna smile

About Joanna Weiss

Joanna Weiss is the editor of Harvard Magazine, a contributing writer for Politico Magazine, and a former columnist for The Boston Globe. Her work has appeared in The Atlantic, Slate, The Economist, and many other outlets. After chronicling her own Eras Tour experience for Boston’s NPR affiliate WBUR, Joanna dove deeper into the Swiftiverse as co-author of Taylor Swift: Album by Album (Quarto Books), which explores each of Taylor’s eras in detail. In addition to her journalism career, Joanna fronts a rock band she formed with five fellow moms — a story captured in her Boston Magazine feature “For Those Moms About to Rock,” now optioned for film by 20th Century Studios.



What Taylor Era Has Made Joanna Smile Recently?

When asked which Taylor song or era makes her smile, Joanna picked “Love Story.” Despite everything that has come since, she still returns to that song for its sheer emotional clarity — a bedroom-written, 20-minute burst of teenage storytelling that still captures the universal thrill of hope, love, and happily-ever-after energy that defines so much of Taylor’s work.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Joanna on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/joannaweiss/] and her website [https://www.joannaweiss.com/]
 * Check out her new book, Taylor Swift: Album by Album [https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Swift-Album-Kase-Wickman/dp/076039749X]

Listen and Support

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * 

Taylor's Version, Bonus Track! Showgirl Spotlight

What makes a brand unforgettable instead of overlooked? Tom Miner knows. As Head of Global Social Media at Crocs, he helped drive one of today’s biggest brand turnarounds. Now author of Social First Brands, Tom shares how embracing productive tension, making personality your secret weapon, and riding trends that matter can turn comments into real community.



What You’ll Learn in This Episode

 * Why Crocs’ turnaround shows the power of leaning into brand polarity
 * How to know if brand tension is productive instead of problematic
 * What it really means to be a “social first” brand—and why fearlessness is key
 * Why unhinged marketing works for some brands and flops for others
 * The difference between comments, engagement, and true community

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(00:35) Welcome to Tom Miner

(01:22) Crocs as a brand turnaround case study

(04:41) Embracing polarity and productive tension

(09:08) What it means to be a social first brand

(13:21) Fearlessness and comfort levels in social strategy

(15:32) Unhinged marketing and authentic brand personality

(18:18) Comments versus true community

(22:43) Liquid Death as a social first example

(25:10) The brand that made Tom smile

(27:10) Where to learn more



About Tom Miner

Tom Miner is a social media strategist and the author of Social First Brands. As the former Head of Global Social Media at Crocs, Tom helped lead one of the most remarkable brand turnarounds in recent years, taking the shoe from internet punchline to cultural icon. Based in Denver, Tom now consults with organizations worldwide—from household consumer names to international B2B enterprises—helping brands move beyond chasing trends to creating genuine, lasting connections with their audiences.



What Brand Has Made Tom Smile Recently?

Recently, Tom found himself impressed by PopSockets. Long known for their stick-on phone grips, the brand has reinvented itself with MagSafe-compatible products and a renewed sense of fun on social media. A standout moment was a TikTok reaction video where the founder surprised a customer who lost her phone in the ocean. The mix of humor, generosity, and leadership buy-in reminded Tom why surprise-and-delight marketing still matters.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Tom on LinkedIn [https://linkedin.com/in/tomjminer].
 * Learn more about Tom Miner [http://goldminermedia.com].
 * Check out Social First Brands on Amazon [https://www.amazon.com].

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to help others find the show.
 * Share this episode —

The Power of Productive Tension in Branding

In this episode of On Brand: Taylor’s Version, we’re joined by Ann Handley — Wall Street Journal bestselling author, Chief Content Officer of MarketingProfs, and one of IBM’s ‘7 people shaping modern marketing.’ Ann brings not just her marketer’s eye but also her mom’s heart to the Swiftiverse. We’ll explore how Taylor’s storytelling fuels parasocial relationships, why The Eras Tour transformed casual fans into rabid ones, and what smart marketers can learn from the savviest hitmaker of our time.



What You’ll Learn in This Episode

 * How Taylor Swift’s storytelling makes the personal feel universal—and what marketers can borrow from that.
 * Why parasocial relationships don’t have to be clinical, and how Taylor transforms them into community.
 * The genius of anticipation, reveals, and Easter eggs in building long-term fan trust.
 * What the Eras Tour can teach marketers about creating inclusive, unforgettable experiences.
 * How Ann Handley’s own fandom grew from casual listener to full-on Swiftie devotion.

Episode Chapters

 * (00:00) Intro
 * (01:20) Swiftie Story Prompts and the Tortured Poets Era
 * (03:14) Standing Up as a Swiftie
 * (05:40) Taylor as Writer, Storyteller, and Cultural Icon
 * (08:07) Making the Personal Universal
 * (11:00) Marketing Lessons from Taylor Swift
 * (19:25) The Eras Tour as Community Experience
 * (29:41) The Taylor Songs and Albums That Make Ann Smile

About Ann Handley

Ann Handley is a Wall Street Journal bestselling author, digital marketing pioneer, and Chief Content Officer at MarketingProfs. Named by IBM as one of seven people shaping modern marketing, Ann is a trusted voice on content, storytelling, and building authentic connections with audiences. She is the author of Everybody Writes, now in its second edition, and a frequent keynote speaker at marketing and business events worldwide. Through her popular newsletter, Total Annarchy, and her leadership at MarketingProfs’ B2B Forum, she continues to inspire marketers to approach their work with clarity, creativity, and heart.



What Taylor Era Has Made Ann Smile Recently?

Ann lights up when she talks about Taylor Swift’s most recent projects—The Tortured Poets Department and Midnights. She especially loves “Fortnight,” with its Post Malone collaboration and typewriter aesthetics (a nod to her own collection of typewriters), and “Mastermind” from Midnights, which she admires for its playful storytelling. For Ann, these albums are on constant repeat, blending artistry, narrative, and joy in ways that fuel both her fandom and her creative spirit.



Links & Resources

 * Connect with Ann on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/annhandley/]
 * Check out her website [https://annhandley.com] and newsletter [https://annhandley.com/newsletter]
 * Speaking of connecting with community, don’t miss the MarketingProfs B2B Forum [https://mpb2b.marketingprofs.com/]



Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], 

Taylor's Version, Pt 4: Swifties & Storytelling

The On Brand podcast helps you tell stronger stories and build better brands. Each week host Nick Westergaard, author of Brand Now and Get Scrappy, interviews marketing and communication thought leaders or those working for innovative brands like Adobe, Ben & Jerry’s, HBO, Mastercard, Maker’s Mark, the Minnesota Vikings, Salesforce, and Whole Foods. For show notes and more, please visit http://onbrandpodcast.com.

On Brand with Nick Westergaard