We like to think our buying decisions are completely rational and deliberate. The truth is that most consumer behavior is driven by subconscious perception and invisible mindstates that leaders completely miss. When we design brand strategies for the logical mind, we miss the actual human experience. Our next guest spent years inside PepsiCo unlocking how consumers really think. Now he is helping brands blend behavioral science with artificial intelligence to fundamentally change how we communicate. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why all brand decisions start emotionally before the rational mind attempts to justify the consequence How to elevate traditional consumer research by mapping functional goals to higher aspirational identity The critical difference between efficiency artificial intelligence and effectiveness technology in modern brand strategy Why customer segmentations fail when they evaluate static attitudes instead of dynamic situational mindstates How iconic organizations earn creative liberty by helping their audience achieve their very best day Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:31) The Reality of Thirty-Five Thousand Daily Decisions (03:47) Moving From Squishy Emotional Marketing to Goal Theory (06:42) The Car GPS Analogy for Consumer Behavior (08:41) Defining the Temporary Mindstate Overlay (12:01) The Complexity of Shifting Consumer Roles (15:57) Lessons Learned From the True North Campaign Failure (19:11) Priming and the Five Guys Friday Night Phenomenon (21:36) Balancing Efficiency Versus Effectiveness in Artificial Intelligence (25:16) The Spotify Disco Ball Logo Tension (27:58) Show Wrap Up and Connect Points About Will Leach Will Leach is a behavioral scientist, marketing strategist, and the founder of Mindstate Group. A former PepsiCo executive, he has spent decades helping organizations understand how subconscious perception shapes customer decisions. Will specializes in the intersection of behavioral science, branding, and artificial intelligence, teaching brands how to look past traditional demographics to uncover the hidden motivations of their audience. He is also the author of Marketing to Mindstates, a definitive guide exploring the psychological reasons behind why customers choose what they choose. What Brand Has Made Will Smile Recently? A brand that has made Will smile recently is Spotify. He observed the massive marketplace tension and public opinion surrounding their recent temporary icon shift to a disco ball. Will noted that brands are stored in minds as emotional predictions rather than visual assets, and he smiled because Spotify has earned the creative liberty to experiment after twenty years of helping users reach their music aspirations. Resources & Links

 * Connect with Will on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-leach/].
 * Check out the Mindstate Group website [https://www.mindstategroup.com/].

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and

The Invisible Engine Behind Every Brand Decision

When Addison Rae headlined Coachella this year and the crowd lost it to “Fame Is a Gun,” the cultural momentum felt instant. But the social infrastructure behind that track was built months in advance, one creator at a time, by Griffin Haddrill and his team at LV8. By moving past the standard 48-hour launch spike and focusing on an always-on creator strategy, they drove over 80 million views and a staggering 9% engagement rate. What You’ll Learn in This Episode How to move past the standard 48-hour launch spike and build true cultural momentum What a deep, hyper-specific audience mapping approach looks like compared to standard demographic targeting How to build and organize a massive global framework of editors for real-time clipping strategies Why organic marketing and performance marketing must live in separate, equal buckets to scale effectively The real data behind human-led vs. AI-driven creative performance and how it impacts consumer retention Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (04:00) Moving Beyond the 48-Hour Launch Spike (05:29) The Power of Depth in Audience Targeting (07:22) Setting a 9% Engagement Rate Standard (08:31) Capturing Lightning in a Bottle with Speed to Market (09:59) The Underbelly of Social Strategy: Clipping and Global Editors (11:39) Splitting the Buckets: Organic Brand Building vs. Performance Marketing (14:12) The Hidden Impact of AI on Consumer Attention and Retention (18:48) Human-Led Creative vs. AI Performance Data (21:48) The Brand That Made Griffin Smile (22:30) Outro About Griffin Haddrill Griffin Haddrill is the founder of LV8, a Gen Z-founded and led digital-first agency based out of Las Vegas. LV8 specializes in creator-led strategies that drive massive digital culture momentum for music labels and global legacy brands alike. Known for pushing past traditional marketing frameworks, Griffin and his team have orchestrated high-profile lifecycle campaigns for artists like Addison Rae and major entertainment partnerships with Columbia Records. What Brand Has Made Griffin Smile Recently? e.l.f. Cosmetics recently put a massive smile on Griffin’s face with their unexpected Liquid Death collaboration. He loved how two highly unique, disruptive brands came together to create something incredibly fun, cool, and beautifully chaotic for their shared communities. Resources & Links

 * Connect with Griffin on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/griffin-haddrill-a2a3a6101/].
 * Check out the LV8 website [https://lv8.co/].

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to help others find the show.
 * Share this episode — email a friend or colleague [?subject=Check%20out%20this%20podcast%20episode&body=I%20thought%20you%20might%20like%20this%20podcast] this episode.
 * Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter [https://www.nickwestergaard.com/email/] for branding and storyte

Capturing Coachella Lightning in a Bottle

The perk trap is costing organizations thousands while leaving teams burned out. Yolanda Fraction, author of the book Joyful Workplaces, joins us to share how leaders can move past surface-level culture and design systems that deliver both joy and results. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why multi-billion dollar corporate perks like unlimited PTO and cold brew fail to fix the root causes of team burnout The critical operational shift from viewing talent development as a cost center to treating it as a core business driver What it means to lead as a steward of people rather than a controller, and how that impacts daily management decisions How to utilize tactical self-leadership tools like the Johari Window and 360-degree feedback to expose your own leadership blind spots Why corporate culture is never a kickoff project and how to accurately diagnose your workplace using the culture iceberg Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (00:33) The Reality of the Perk Trap (03:15) Designing Systems for Joy and Performance (05:48) Shifting From Controller to Steward of People (08:53) The True Human Cost of Broken Systems (13:51) Using Self Leadership to Drive Team Clarity (19:01) Uncovering Blind Spots and Reflective Leadership (21:20) Diagnosing Culture Beyond the Surface (25:31) A Brand That Makes Yolanda Smile (27:38) Where to Connect with Yolanda Fraction About Yolanda Fraction Yolanda Fraction, M.Ed., is an organizational development consultant, leadership advisor, and corporate trainer with more than two decades of experience helping executives build healthier, high performing workplaces. Currently pursuing her PhD in industrial organizational psychology, Yolanda holds a graduate degree in adult and organizational learning, bringing a deeply practical and human centered approach to talent management across corporate, nonprofit, academic, and government sectors. She is the author of Joyful Workplaces: How People and Systems Create Energy, Resilience, and Results, and she hosts the Teamwork Sandbox podcast, where she explores the direct ways leaders influence and shape modern organizational culture. What Brand Has Made Yolanda Smile Recently? Yolanda shared a powerful story about Marriott that perfectly illustrated care beyond measure. While managing a hectic work travel schedule and undergoing IVF treatments, she arrived well before check-in at a Marriott property needing a safe place to store her temperature-sensitive medications. Instead of sticking strictly to standard front desk policy, an empathetic employee stepped up, securely stored the medication in a staff refrigerator, and personally ensured it safely reached her room later. For Yolanda, this moment of going above and beyond proved that a culture of genuine care is truly embedded within the Marriott brand. Resources & Links

 * Connect with Yolanda on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/yolanda-fraction/].
 * Learn more about Yolanda Fraction and her work at her website [https://yolandafraction.com/].

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on 

Creating a Workplace System That Delivers Joy 

Branding is losing its personality. In the race for digital efficiency, the world has succumbed to “blanding”—clean, neutral, and entirely safe design built for algorithms instead of people. Mark Nichols, Creative Director and Co-Owner of WMH&I, joins the show to challenge this rise of system-friendly simplicity. He shares why the brands that truly matter must push against global scalability, embrace their unique quirks, and design for humans—even if that means not being for everyone. What You’ll Learn in This Episode - Why brands are paying millions of pounds to strip away the exact quirks that drive human connection The strategic power of distinctiveness and why only fifteen percent of brand assets are actually memorable - How a sector agnostic approach allows creatives to cross pollinate ideas from fashion into electric vehicles - The shift from designing for machine efficiency to using live data sets and creative code for living brandscapes - Why Nike should have doubled down instead of backing out when a bold running campaign polarized audiences Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:08) The Rise of Blanding (03:34) The Value of Distinctiveness (04:48) Sensory Storytelling with Red Breast Whiskey (07:31) The Case for Being Sector Agnostic (12:04) Overcoming Client Fear of Polarization (16:30) Idea Driven Branding vs Style Points (19:42) Embracing Irreverence and Creative Code About Mark Nichols Mark Nichols is the Creative Director and Co-Owner of WMH&I, a sector-agnostic creative agency specializing in bold rebrands that push against global scalability and machine efficiency. Trained as a multi-disciplined designer, Mark began his career at WMH&I as a graduate, refined his craft at leading agencies like Taxi Studio and Jack Renwick, and ultimately returned home to lead the agency’s creative output. His exceptional, award-winning work for global giants and boutique brands alike has earned recognition from the New York Festivals, Art Directors Club, Pentawards, and Brand Impact. Beyond the agency, Mark is a dedicated champion of design education, lecturing internationally at institutions ranging from his alma mater, the Norwich University of the Arts, to IDEP Barcelona and the University of Delaware. What Brand Has Made Mark Smile Recently? Mark smiled recently at the daring and irreverence of brands that lean entirely into their distinct personalities. He highlighted Liquid Death’s punk-media approach to the water category, alongside Nike’s willingness to reflect the gritty reality of their consumers—such as their London campaign noting that running in the city is awful, but loved. Mark prefers brands that choose a clear voice and stand their ground rather than homogenizing their message for safe, forgettable neutrality. Resources & Links Connect with Mark on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-nichols-29791a72/].

Learn more about WMH&I [https://wmh-i.com/]. Listen & Support the Show Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].

Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and

Designing for Humans Instead of the Machine

What if the secret to a high-performing team isn’t found in a pep talk or a personality test but in the cold, hard data of behavioral science? Today we are joined by Dr. Ron Friedman, an award-winning psychologist and author of the new book Superteams. We dive into the science-backed strategies that transform a group of individuals into a cohesive powerhouse, challenging the myths of traditional management along the way. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why confusing collaboration with constant togetherness is driving your team toward burnout - The specific calendar strategies super teams use to play offense and protect deep work time - How to implement a simple rule for meeting guidelines that ensures you only meet when a decision is required - The shocking data behind why most feedback fails to improve performance and how to pivot to a future-focused approach - Why the reasons your team chooses to work on vacation matter more than the act of working itself Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (00:39) Welcome Ron Friedman (01:09) The Hidden Costs of Constant Communication (02:21) How Super Teams Were Studied and Defined (03:40) Calendar Offense and Focus Amplification (05:19) Creating Better Team Meeting Guidelines (08:09) Establishing Specific Modes of Communication (10:21) The Truth About Remote and Hybrid Teams (13:07) Creative Lessons From ABBA and Broadway (15:48) The Sunday Night Litmus Test (19:19) Why Most Feedback Fails and How to Fix It (24:27) Modeling Culture and Vacation Realities (27:02) A Brand That Makes Ron Smile (28:13) Where to Learn More and Show Wrap Up About Ron Friedman Dr. Ron Friedman is an award-winning psychologist and the founder of Ignite80, a learning and development company that teaches leaders science-based strategies for building high-performing teams. His extensive research into human behavior and organizational success has been featured on major platforms, including NPR, Bloomberg, The New York Times, and Harvard Business Review. He is the author of The Best Place to Work, Decoding Greatness, and his latest book, SuperTeams: The Science and Secrets of High-Performing Teams, which delivers a data-driven playbook on how the world's most effective teams manage their time, energy, and attention. What Brand Has Made Ron Smile Recently? Ron shared his enthusiasm for Hyperice, a high-performance wellness and recovery brand specializing in advanced massage and compression technology. After experiencing their vibrating rollers at his gym, he tried their innovative, inflatable compression pants designed to relieve leg tension and muscle soreness. As a fitness enthusiast, Ron is now an evangelist for the brand because the product completely eliminates post-workout soreness, making him ready to perform again the very next day. Resources & Links

 * Connect with Ron on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronfriedmanphd/].
 * Check out his new book Superteams [https://www.amazon.com/Superteams-Science-Secrets-High-Performing-Teams/dp/198218633X].
 * Learn more about Ron Friedman’s research and access free tools on his website [http://superteamsmasterclass.com].

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and

The Science (and Secrets) of Building Super Teams

Building a brand that lasts requires a bundle of promises, an uncompromising dedication to craft, and a healthy dose of grit. Monica Nassif, the force behind Mrs. Meyer’s Clean Day, didn’t just disrupt a tired $30 billion category—she bottled a legacy. From raising capital to fueling creative muscle, she knows exactly what it takes to turn an authentic story into a market-shifting powerhouse. What You’ll Learn in This Episode - How training your eyes to notice beauty helps you identify distracting retail clutter and build an uncompromising premium brand - Why a former Target speechwriter decided to intentionally knock off her own high-end business with a thrifty Midwestern alternative - How capturing real words and designing a detailed stylist guide can create a consistent domestic mentor persona for a real-life mother - What two belly-flop startups taught a product geek about the dangers of running two businesses at once without a dedicated sales structure - Why stepping away from digital focus groups and walking the aisles of a competitive landscape provides the ultimate customer insight Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (02:42) Balancing Startup Grit with Premium Detail (04:26) Turning a Real Person Into a Beloved Household Brand (05:56) Creating a Brand Bible Around a Legacy Persona (12:47) Learning from Startup Flops and Learning to Sell (15:37) The Framework of Why You Should Start a Business (19:56) The Retail Rat Approach to Market Research (26:13) A Brand That Makes Monica Smile About Monica Nassif Monica Nassif is an author, founder, entrepreneur, and motivational speaker who revolutionized the consumer household product market by launching the premium cleaning lines Caldrea and Mrs. Meyer’s Clean Day. After beginning her career in marketing communications at Target Corporation as a speechwriter, editor, and publicist, she founded Kilter Incorporated, a Minneapolis-based agency serving major retail companies. Nassif’s fearless approach to business has led her through four startups, resulting in major market-shifting successes and instructive flops alike. Since selling her company to SC Johnson in 2008, she continues to inspire founders with her insights on perseverance, retail savvy, and craftsmanship, which she shares in her book, I Bottled My Mother. What Brand Has Made Monica Smile Recently? A recent collaborative launch by Swatch and a high-end partner brought a smile to Monica’s face. As a self-described product and branding geek, she loved seeing two old Swiss heritage names join forces to release a bold, colorful pocket watch format. For an entrepreneur who appreciates nostalgic craftsmanship, tracking the enduring success of mechanical watchmakers in a digital world served as a delightful reminder that consumers are always hungry for quality and tactile details. Resources & Links

 * Connect with Monica on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/monica-nassif-686876335/]
 * Check out her website [https://www.monicanassif.com/].

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on

The Story Behind Mrs. Meyer's Clean Day

How does a brand move from being a commodity to being a community? Scott Woodward joins the show to discuss why kindness is no longer a "soft" marketing line but a high-leverage strategic advantage that drives everything from customer acquisition to 76% higher employee engagement.



What You’ll Learn in This Episode

- The secret history of Ray-Ban's cultural dominance through product integration

- Why 61% of consumers refuse to buy from brands they consider unkind

- Lessons from the genesis of Lady Gaga’s Born This Way Foundation

- The data behind how internal kindness boosts team creativity by 60%

- How to transition from managing legacy icons to building an impact-driven consultancy



Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(00:37) The Core Story of Heritage Icons

(03:19) The Secret History of Ray-Ban and Product Placement

(08:23) Evolution of Brand Partnerships and Integration

(11:24) Pivoting from Corporate Powerhouses to Entrepreneurship

(14:27) Connecting the Dots Between Kindness and Strategy

(18:26) Why Kindness is a High-Leverage Strategic Advantage

(23:22) Kindness as a Core Strength for Leaders

(27:10) Brand Smile: Burberry’s Digital Heritage



About Scott Woodward

Scott Woodward is an award-winning brand architect and the founder of SEW Branded. His career began in the in-house marketing trenches of global powerhouses, including Ray-Ban, Calvin Klein, and The Coca-Cola Company, where he helped shape some of the world’s most recognizable identities. A pioneer in the “kindness space,” Scott has collaborated with Lady Gaga’s Born This Way Foundation and One Direction to launch massive social impact campaigns that challenge bullying and promote empowerment. In addition to his consultancy work, he serves as an advisor to startups and is an adjunct faculty member at the Parsons School of Design, where he teaches the next generation about the intersection of strategic design, humanized marketing, and brand management.



What Brand Has Made Scott Smile Recently?

Scott is smiling at the heritage brand Burberry for their recent campaign featuring actor Tom Blythe. He appreciates how they are celebrating their iconic trench coat through a 360-degree digital approach that feels savvy in the modern fashion landscape. Scott notes that while the NFL’s recent work with Tim Ellis and Dhar Mann shows that kindness makes teams unstoppable, Burberry’s ability to modernize a classic British icon is what has caught his eye lately.



Resources & Links

 * Connect with Scott on LinkedI [https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-woodward-3bb1998a/]n.
 * Check out Scott’s personal website [https://www.scottwoodward.com/] and the SEW Branded [https://sewbranded.com/] site.

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and

Kindness as a Competitive Edge

Personal branding isn't about the perfect headshot or a polished LinkedIn bio anymore. In an AI-saturated world, the leaders who stand out are the ones brave enough to lead with intuition rather than just data. Elizabeth Rosenberg is helping the C-suite find their unfiltered voice and reclaim their spiritual health before they hit a wall. What You’ll Learn in This Episode How to harness intuitive intelligence as a human skill that AI cannot replicate Why the future of the C-suite may include a Chief Spiritual Officer to drive purpose and impact The three essential human skills needed to thrive in an AI-driven world Why personal branding requires a human story rather than an AI-generated script The connection between spiritual health and overcoming executive burnout Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:18) Gaming the LinkedIn Algorithm (03:36) Defining Intuitive Intelligence (05:41) Critical Thinking and Emotional Intelligence (08:08) The Role of the Chief Spiritual Officer (10:42) Addressing Burnout Through Spiritual Health (13:47) Building a Healthy Relationship with AI (21:22) Recovering Your Childhood Brand (24:15) A Brand That Makes You Smile About Elizabeth Rosenberg Elizabeth Rosenberg is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of The Good Advice Company, a marketing and communications consultancy that provides unfiltered guidance to C-suite leaders on personal branding and PR strategy. With over 25 years of experience in corporate PR working for Fortune 500 brands, she also founded Chief Spiritual Officer, a platform dedicated to helping executives integrate intuitive intelligence and spiritual health into their leadership. An intuitive medium based in Los Angeles, Elizabeth specializes in helping leaders move past corporate norms to find a more human and purposeful connection with their audience. What Brand Has Made Elizabeth Smile Recently? Elizabeth is currently a fan of Alloy, a health brand focused on the perimenopausal and menopausal industry. She appreciates the brand’s innovation in addressing the shortage of essential prescriptions like estrogen patches while providing products that support women’s health during this stage of life. Resources & Links

 * Connect with Elizabeth on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethrosenberg/].
 * Check out Elizabeth’s company, The Good Advice Company. [https://www.thegoodadvicecompany.com/]

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to help others find the show.
 * Share this episode — email a friend or colleague [?subject=Check%20out%20this%20podcast%20episode&body=I%20thought%20you%20might%20like%20this%20podcast] this episode.
 * Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter [https://www.nickwestergaard.com/email/] for branding and storytelling tips.

On Brand is a part of the

The Intuitive Intelligence Advantage in an AI World

We all claim to have values, but do we actually know how to use them when the stakes are high? Paul Ingram, the Kravis Professor of Business at Columbia Business School and author of What Do You Really Stand For?, joins us to dismantle the “corporate poster” approach to values. He shares a research-backed framework for identifying your true North Star and, more importantly, how to turn those abstract ideals into a practical tool for better leadership and more authentic brand storytelling. What You’ll Learn in This Episode - The critical difference between your espoused values and the actual values-in-use that drive your behavior - Why limiting your organizational values to five or fewer is the key to making them operative and memorable - How to navigate the inherent conflict of values without damaging your team's culture or relationships - The specific role of “value stories” as the most credible way to express and build trust around your principles - Practical implementation techniques from Slack emojis to using personification and archetypes like Miles Davis Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:31) The disconnect between posters and practice (03:15) The power of simplicity and the five-value limit (05:33) Addressing skepticism with empirical evidence (07:41) Creating an inclusive process for cultural ownership (11:39) Using values as a tool for productive conflict resolution (14:39) Storytelling as a bridge to credibility and trust (17:16) Practical techniques for daily implementation (22:54) Sharpening your labels and the importance of vocabulary (25:54) A brand that makes Paul smile About Paul Ingram Paul Ingram is the Kravis Professor of Business at the Columbia Business School and a renowned expert on leadership and organizational culture. He has received Columbia's highest recognition for teaching, the Presidential Award for Excellence in Teaching, as well as the Dean's Award for Teaching Excellence, and thirteen teaching awards voted by graduating students at Columbia and Cornell Universities. An empirical social scientist by trade, Paul has spent two decades researching how values influence performance at both the individual and organizational levels, resulting in more than one hundred published articles and books. What Brand Has Made Paul Smile Recently? Paul finds joy and a boost of creative energy in the Italian clothing brand Etro. He appreciates the brand's aesthetic—often featuring paisley prints and plaid foundations—noting that it has become a core part of his professional identity and a personal reminder of his own value of creativity. Resources & Links

 * Connect with Paul on the Columbia Business School website [https://business.columbia.edu/faculty/people/paul-ingram].
 * Check out his book, What Do You Really Stand For? [https://www.amazon.com/What-You-Really-Stand-Transform/dp/1647827655]
 * We also discussed my work around values stories. Here’s a link to a Harvard Business Review article [https://hbr.org/2023/09/5-types-of-stories-leaders-need-to-tell] I wrote on this.

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 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].

The Values Gap: What Do You Really Stand For?

Most of us believe we make rational choices, but our brains are actually wired to say no before we ever get to the logic. Paul Larche, a Hall of Fame broadcaster and author of The Divided Brain, spent four decades in media before turning to neuroscience to find out why customers actually buy. He joins the show to break down the Old Brain versus New Brain metaphor and explain how leaders can stop accidentally triggering the wrong response in their brand storytelling. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why your customer’s brain is biologically wired to say no before you ever finish your pitch How a small engine mechanic turned a twenty-year radio campaign into a local empire by ditching technical specs The two-gear metaphor for understanding how the old brain drives the bus while the new brain just rationalizes the ride Why leading with facts and figures is actually a roadblock to opening the mind of your audience How to engage critical thinking and skepticism to avoid being manipulated by AI and modern algorithms Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:36) From Radio Pioneer to Neuroscience Strategist (03:45) The Toronto Blue Jays and the Power of Emotional Advertising (04:45) The Story of Ted and the 20 Year Mechanic Campaign (07:53) The Divided Brain: The Two Gear Metaphor Explained (11:34) Using the Brand Value Canvas to Identify Emotional Drivers (15:10) Meeting the Moment: Patternicity and the Information Firehose (18:22) AI Awareness and the Need for Critical Thinking (21:24) The First Principle: How Not to Fool Yourself (22:35) A Brand That Makes Paul Smile (24:26) Closing and Where to Find Paul Larche About Paul Larche Paul Larche is a Hall of Fame broadcaster and media pioneer who spent nearly fifty years building a radio empire from the ground up. After starting as a teenage announcer and eventually owning multiple stations, he became obsessed with why some advertising failed while other campaigns lasted decades. This led him deep into the study of behavioral psychology and neuroscience, culminating in his award-winning book, The Divided Brain. Today, Paul translates complex brain science into actionable business strategies, helping leaders bridge the gap between technical expertise and the emotional drivers that actually compel people to take action. What Brand Has Made Paul Smile Recently? Paul finds himself smiling at legacy brands like McDonald’s that have successfully weathered decades of change by continuing to speak to the heart rather than the head. He admires how these organizations prioritize universal human feelings and lifestyle over technical product features, proving that compelling storytelling remains the most effective way to maintain brand gravity over the long term. Resources & Links

 * Connect with Paul on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-larche/].
 * Check out his book, The Divided Brain [https://paullarche.com/].

Listen & Support the Show

 * Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk], YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/onbrandpodcast], Amazon/Audible [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7f4fb055-1584-4037-a637-305c9b82ac3c/on-brand-with-nick-westergaard?refMarker=dm_wcp_af_r&ref=dmm_acq_mrn_d_ds_rh_z_-c_c_539036640611_g_127821134784&], TuneIn [https://tunein.com/radio/On-Brand-p967623/], and iHeart [https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-on-brand-with-nick-westerg-90019102/].
 * Rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-brand-podcast-about-branding/id1113563080?mt=2] and Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Hq9fjctcpm3YKlJFuXmRk] to

The Myth of the Rational Customer

The On Brand podcast helps you tell stronger stories and build better brands. Each week host Nick Westergaard, author of Brand Now and Get Scrappy, interviews marketing and communication thought leaders or those working for innovative brands like Adobe, Ben & Jerry’s, HBO, Mastercard, Maker’s Mark, the Minnesota Vikings, Salesforce, and Whole Foods. For show notes and more, please visit http://onbrandpodcast.com.

On Brand with Nick Westergaard