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Sustainable Finance Kx "Inside Out" Podcast Episode 21
18 Plays7 months ago
Sustainable Finance Knowledge eXchange
We strive to bring you the critical news, events, major breakthroughs and key concepts covering the happenings in this super fast, evolving area of global finance – how the world funds the transition to Net Zero.
Think of us as a curator or sorts (much like a gallery that curates the finest paintings and sculptures) as we source only the best educational knowledge around Sustainable Finance worth sharing.
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:15
SFKx DJ
Hello and welcome to Would You Believe It? the 21st edition of the SFKX Sustainable Finance Insight Out podcast. Sustainable Finance KX or Knowledge Exchange is a media and trading initiative.
00:00:31
SFKx DJ
We strive to bring you the critical news stories, events, major breakthroughs and key concepts covering in the fast happenings and super quick developments within sustainable finance. We hope you like the podcast. Please check us out at Twitter, at SustFinanceKX, one word, or LinkedIn's the main place where we do things at the moment, Sustainable Finance KX.
00:00:54
SFKx DJ
And this is hosted by, ah thought it was someone else, but it's actually myself. And I am SF Guru. So let's dive straight into it. Some of you will remember SF Guru.
00:01:09
SFKx DJ
SF DJ, he's still ironing his underpants from Christmas and Chinese New Year or sunning himself on a beach in Bali. So hopefully he eventually will but return. So you're stuck with SF Guru.
00:01:21
SFKx DJ
Let's dive straight in.
Market Outlook for 2025
00:01:24
SFKx DJ
So if we look at the market over the last sort of few weeks, the start of 2025, there's quite a lot of wrap-up articles from last year and a few predictions. So we just wanted to start on that note and highlight a few things. Moody's predicts another $1 trillion dollar sustainable bond market in 2025.
00:01:43
SFKx DJ
The loans data is a little bit difficult to ah pin down. So I think the... the expectation around bonds is a good overall sentiment for the whole whole market. um AXA IM says green bonds to break new records in 2025, given net zero demand remains massive despite all the, let's say, headwinds of geopolitical issues and things coming out of the US at the moment. So let's see how that goes.
00:02:12
SFKx DJ
um A really good report from um environmental finance summing up um last year. I'll just highlight a few things from that report. um Emerging markets to drive Greenmont issuance in 2025.
00:02:25
SFKx DJ
Growth in sustainable bonds expected from emerging economies as they tackle the $4 billion dollar climate finance gap. um As US pulls back huge opportunity for Asia to lead in the global transition. I think all of that's true.
00:02:39
SFKx DJ
um Forecasting a little bit for the market is still all around that 1 trillion level from AXA, from Credit Agricole, from Moody's. um And I think you're going to see sort of 60% of the market dominated by green.
00:02:53
SFKx DJ
Maybe we'll see 20 billion of transition bonds this year, probably out of Japan in the main. um Sustainability bonds continue to gain market share as there's a bit of a shift back to use of proceeds.
00:03:04
SFKx DJ
And sovereigns um had another strong year last year and are expected to do so over um over the following year. In terms of a bit of outlook, um yeah again, green bonds um to remain the most favoured instrument. Social bonds.
00:03:19
SFKx DJ
issued in isolation, probably less so. um Just chucked into sustainability bonds overall, linked bonds. um Let's see how that goes. Been under pressure for the last two or three years. So that will probably continue.
00:03:32
SFKx DJ
And transition labelling, when the APLMA come out with their transition loan principles, that should heat up the market. But on the bond side, you're probably going to see dominated issuance out of um out of Japan and selective use of that label. But we're starting to see a little little bit across Asia and other parts of the world, very much in small numbers at the moment.
Challenges and Opportunities in Sustainable Finance
00:03:54
SFKx DJ
Headwinds, Trump or Trump trump quake, EUGBS or Green Bond Standard is is, I guess, a double-edged sword, probably will bifurcate the market.
00:04:05
SFKx DJ
Some really strong issuers with, I'd say, probably pretty limited specific user proceeds will dip into that market and dip into that certification, but others ah might just sort of work around it. Geopolitical and economic uncertainty around the world, trade wars, all that stuff's going to cloud sentiment. And as we know, and as we've said before, sustainable finance and all the labelled instruments within don't happen and don't get driven in isolation. They're always coloured by the large factors of of macro, geopolitical and other things that impacts the whole world.
00:04:36
SFKx DJ
um the whole market in terms of what is expected to support the market going forward, at least according to environmental finance. um Continued top-down approach in terms of sovereigns really pushing their agendas and updating NDCs and all that other good stuff. Net zero goals still going on.
00:04:54
SFKx DJ
ah Matured, well-defined principles, particularly around green. um Central bank interest rates. Let's see what
Key Themes for 2025: Transparency and Innovation
00:05:00
SFKx DJ
happens for them if if if they drop. Again, that's more macro and we're not really a macroeconomic um podcast.
00:05:06
SFKx DJ
Innovative financial solutions and niche products. So i think we'll see some niche progress. um exactly what I just said, um to continue to drive agendas and and highlight deals across across the market.
00:05:18
SFKx DJ
couple of points from um from ah RBS. Again, we've sort of sprinkled in points from different market outlooks last podcast, and we continue to do so as those come out at staggered times.
00:05:29
SFKx DJ
um A little bit of a recap in terms of, yes, the market grew two thousand and over 2024. um Key themes continue to be transparency, credibility, ah more sustainable, sorry, more precise language to describe sustainability initiatives, pragmatic solutions to accelerate real-world decarbonisation, jurisdictional adoption of sustainability-related disclosure requirements, we believe,
00:05:57
SFKx DJ
These themes, and I'm quoting this from RBS, we believe these themes will remain a focus for 2025. And then the five things have really highlighted the complex and evolving landscape of corporate climate action, artificial intelligence, innovative financing, amplified physical risks um and supply chain. So probably echoing some of the other thoughts that have come out or we remain in that echo chamber, which means that at least the market's driving a similar set of issues which is good most of the time.
00:06:28
SFKx DJ
Okay, um to label or not to label, um more going on into that. And I think we're in a much more nuanced world this year of hushing and really driving results and not talking about processes and disclosures and that as much, just just getting on with ah um with the work. So I don't know how that's going to translate into labels this year.
00:06:51
SFKx DJ
EU Green Bond Market, we talked about a little bit of issuance there. A2A has, Italian Utility has been the first um one to um to do that and some other things happening there. um Trump quake, ESG's wake-up call to change. Yeah, maybe, maybe not.
00:07:09
SFKx DJ
um what else have we got to here as i mentioned before um you know with the disruption to dei policies what's going to happen with the s and that s um going uh going forward rather than the e or the environmental side we're going to see a lot more um hushing but you know maybe there's an opportunity in in crisis and in all the things happening in the u.s of the market to really have a look and and you know prove its value around sustainability as it's attacked more and more. And you know maybe that's a good thing over the over the longer um over the longer term. um We're going to see more announcements and more things, USAID and clean energy offices and all that sort of stuff from the US.
00:07:52
SFKx DJ
But I think the market's just going to get on with the work of decarbonisation, at least in other parts of the world, and keep on continuing to reassess what's economic, what isn't, why, what's happening, and really that continue to focus on results.
00:08:06
SFKx DJ
Speaking of transition, um gas continues to be debated here, there, and everywhere. um And just on that, Duke Energy removes climate. I saw an article, removes climate language as it builds more gas plants.
00:08:19
SFKx DJ
Yeah, interesting one. We'll probably see more of this sort of thing going going forward. India's natural gas demand set for a 60% rise at 2030. um So that look, there's going to be a huge wave of natural true gas supplied and I think it's very much um market specific as to whether that's a good bridge to transition rather than just broad based.
00:08:40
SFKx DJ
um it It works as a transition fuel everywhere. If you look at it look at it for shipping, it'll help shipping companies meet their overall decarbonisation targets to the early 30s, mid 30s and then what do you do after that? So again, gas is a bridge but very locally specific and i personally think case by case.
Biodiversity Financing Gap by 2030
00:09:00
SFKx DJ
Okay, McKinsey came out with a pretty interesting report on nature, biodiversity to credits, private sector, roadmaps, and all these type of things. There's an approximate, according to them, 700 billion annual nature financing gap, um halting and reversing biodiversity loss by 2030.
00:09:18
SFKx DJ
Lots to be done by private sector government. What is nature positive? How do you do it? Very localized. um Businesses can make meaningful progress in advancing their nature, policy, with agendas and transitions. um it's ah It's a similar side of the coin or other side of the coin to decarbonisation.
00:09:35
SFKx DJ
um What have we got here? Suggesting in that report, defining actions and values, identifying metrics, procuring credits or other instruments. If there is biodiversity credits, when and if they're launched last year around COP, the yeah UK and France push some...
00:09:52
SFKx DJ
um push some proposals around that so let's see what happens very much driven by local legislation in local markets for very localized issue in terms of nature and the overall broader market about offsetting and repairing damages let's just say it to be to be developed uh okay davos didn't see too much come out of that as far as sustainability is concerned um Mongolia remains a pretty interesting market. It's just jumping around a little bit here.
00:10:22
SFKx DJ
A couple of banks have done interesting things in the last few months, dirt to bonds and and others. um Back to biodiversity. National capital went mainstream in 22. What's next for 2025? Probably what I just...
00:10:35
SFKx DJ
ah Probably what I just mentioned. Pakistan's talking about a green taxonomy. That's good. More and more markets is good for good for us all. NZAM or Net Zero Asset Managers Alliance. I think we've seen BlackRock leave that. And these alliances, I think everyone's reviewing.
00:10:52
SFKx DJ
in terms of um what sort of risks that represents and how much progress can be in that main made under them in a very fast evolving and litigious or increasingly litigious world, particularly out of the out of the US. So let's see how that goes.
00:11:08
SFKx DJ
Blended finance, I think, like what we've talked about before, will continue to come on the agenda. Credit rating agencies key to unlocking blended finance, says Elliance, interesting one. ah Use the bond market to industrialise blended finance and BNP, unlocking growth through catalytic technical assistance.
00:11:23
SFKx DJ
So blended finance, a thousand ways to skin a cat. And hopefully over time, excuse me, we will see more activity and more scaling of that because mixing philanthropic, public, private monies together, capital together has to be a way for us to accelerate the move to net zero for something. It's not all.
00:11:45
SFKx DJ
um japan what do we got here uh creates a transition advisory body updating the transition guidelines i think pretty minor changes to what they've done a few years ago ah carbon credits still uh remain to be let's say topical debatable let's see how that goes sbti are updating their standards at the moment so the the ongoing use of some of that to neutralize um more offen like offsets against some of the scope three yeah um supply chain emissions, I think is, will be debated more and more going forward, but let's see what comes out out of that consultation.
00:12:22
SFKx DJ
Green bond investors call for improvements and in-bank reporting. Same old, same old. NDC is getting updated as we go. Although I think only five or 10% of countries have lodged them before the the deadline, sort of in the start of 2021.
00:12:36
SFKx DJ
ah Five, the ETC or Energy Transition Commission, energytransitions.org, very, very good publications that come out of that. um Talking about supply side, sorry, demand side flexibility. And I'll just read a couple of things from that. I thought this was a cool report.
00:12:52
SFKx DJ
Demand side flexibility means being able to shift consumption of electricity at peak times, helping being offset new grid and generation capacity needed across the system. Pretty smart. In many cases, demand side flexibility options are low cost and already available.
00:13:06
SFKx DJ
Overall, demand side flexibility can play significant role in buildings industry and the transport sectors. I say bring it it on. Transmission, very expensive and all those other types of things and maximising what we've got, being more sensible about what we've got.
00:13:20
SFKx DJ
Very smart. ESG ratings, oblivious to missed climate targets, research finds. There's always going to be debates about how good or or not good ESG ratings are, how regulated they are or are not.
00:13:33
SFKx DJ
Similar to credit rating agencies took a long time to stabilise and get criticised from time to time. Same thing on ESG ratings, I think. um Energy benefits, leveraging local capacity for concentrated solar power. I think that was a report I saw from Irina.
00:13:50
SFKx DJ
um Interesting, concentrated solar power as a more heat-based sort of solution hasn't really taken off anywhere. um Anyway, let's see what happens there.
00:14:00
SFKx DJ
um AI, people will not spend time on reporting anymore, given AI. Not sure. AI is still a bit of a problem for energy demand, hence decarbonisation, but it's a part of the solution and part of the problem, I think.
00:14:12
SFKx DJ
Bit like Agri. Saw an interesting article. Sustainability linked loans, a lot of practical, not a practical solution for agriculture. I don't know about that. I think SLLs.
00:14:23
SFKx DJ
Sustainability linked loans are a good solution for many companies, many markets and many industries, as long as they're ah material KPIs and they're ambitious targets.
00:14:34
SFKx DJ
That's all in the eye of the of the beholder. In some markets, would be more difficult to get teeth into the really, really difficult issues. But I think it's a key product that should stay and should grow over time.
00:14:47
SFKx DJ
but not as a silver bullet in isolation to solve the sustainability problems of the world. None of the products we we talk about here can do that, but they can go a long way to moving capital to where it needs to go and highlighting things and making sure companies get access to capital that they might not have otherwise get over our time.
00:15:07
SFKx DJ
SLBs, SLB market reinvigoration awaits. CSRD struggles feeding exceptionally high sleeping SLLs. Sleeping SLLs we know convert to real SLLs once certain triggers are met.
00:15:19
SFKx DJ
I think that's okay as long as it's not too far in alone and you get an opportunity to attack those KPIs and targets as long as it's documented well and there's ah an ample period to get to those targets. I think that's okay.
00:15:35
SFKx DJ
Capco drops sustainable one label from US deletions. We're going to see a bit of this, I think. Again, more tiptoeing, more hushing, much more careful um folks um operating in the market now. I don't have all the background to that, but I thought it was interesting.
00:15:54
SFKx DJ
Can geological hydrogen or white hydrogen, I think it's called, transform the energy investment landscape? Let's see where it is and hopefully people can find it more. um I mentioned before about the SBTI, Science-Based Target Initiative Market Consultation, and then looking at things.
00:16:09
SFKx DJ
Categorisation to ensure inclusivity and relevance, and progress and transparency, value chain emissions, neutralisations, intraoperability. Let's see what happens for that because, as I say, it's actually a key driver of...
00:16:23
SFKx DJ
benchmarking to something really robust often for SLBs and SLLs. And it's also... a key driver depending on how you can and can't use things such as offsets.
00:16:34
SFKx DJ
It's actually a bit of a driver to the carbon market as well. So a lot of things look back to that and stem from that. So um let's all collectively keep an eye out on that as that as that happens.
00:16:45
SFKx DJ
Ocean's heating, still um a very, very, very important part of the overall carbon cycle and taking in a lot of carbon from the atmosphere and doing all the good things that ocean's heating.
Cross-Border Renewable Energy Integration
00:16:56
SFKx DJ
Oceans do. Ocean heat, very much an ongoing problem. Cross-border transmission, something that's um interesting in our neck of the woods here in in Asia with monopolised utilities having and struggling with transmission and integrating renewables and things like that, I think um cross-border will become more common.
00:17:17
SFKx DJ
to ensure that those who have renewable electricity resources can can spread that spread that love and and hopefully have us all on a collective basis move to even quicker to net zero.
00:17:29
SFKx DJ
um What have we got here? Nature positive I talked about before. Insurance, we need more insurance in blended finance. We need more assurance around technology risks to ensure that financing can be done for innovative things.
00:17:44
SFKx DJ
you know Let's see how that goes. Nuclear continues to be a topic. and Agriculture continues to be a topic. What China is and isn't doing continues to be a topic.
00:17:55
SFKx DJ
and Let's see how that ah that goes. um If you want a really good example of a transition plan and how that's been dissected, IEEFA, I've actually forgot what that stands for. i think it's International Energy Something. Something have come out with a report on...
00:18:14
SFKx DJ
labeled um debt um and Sanam's net zero transition. a couple of things I'll just quote from that. Sanam's continued to focus on gas network and storage activities without adequately addressing End user emissions undermines the credibility of the transition plan.
00:18:30
SFKx DJ
Sanam's transition plan fails to assess the carbon lock-in of its assets. The company has actively issued debt under various sustainability labels, but few have clear commitments to align with the EU. Excuse me. So I think overall,
00:18:46
SFKx DJ
not necessarily to pick on Sanam because they're in that topical sector around gas and gas infra anyway, but how that's being dissected, lock in, commitments, focused timelines is a good um it a good way. And I like to see these things critiqued more and more because then that stimulates debate.
00:19:06
SFKx DJ
And I think collectively, we're not all very good at assessing transition plans and then pointing out what could be done better. Again, not a certain app specific issue, but in that case, a pretty interesting report, how the critique was dissected there.
00:19:20
SFKx DJ
Climate bonds or our friends at climate bonds have been pretty busy on a couple of things. Transaction net zero reports for banks can do better. Do check that out. They talk about standardization of net zero disclosures, and more appropriate metrics rather than just financial finance emissions maybe coming out.
00:19:37
SFKx DJ
um A clear connection between net zero alignment claims and officially recognized sector pathways could be done better. um There's a whole lot of information in that critiquing the banks. Check it out.
00:19:48
SFKx DJ
Banks got a long way to go. So do corporates.
Global Sustainability-Linked Bond Activities
00:19:52
SFKx DJ
Let's get on with it and take whatever feedback there is from that that we can use. The CBI, our climate bond industry, if were also busy.
00:19:59
SFKx DJ
Looking at guidelines for issuance thematic label financial instruments, check that out. And transparency reporting, impact reporting, um how that can be done better. Again, that's just a common ah perennial issues, perennial issue, I should say.
00:20:15
SFKx DJ
All right, link transactions. um Let's dive into just dissecting or list listing out a few of those rather than dissecting. Kenya targets to issue first, um SLB sometime in the near future.
00:20:26
SFKx DJ
HKBN um issued a SG link loan, a broadband provider, I think in Hong Kong. Mexico, um EDP did something there in the energy side. Terra Moretti did pretty small, think it's 15 million SLB for growth in the wine and hospital hospitality um sectors.
00:20:45
SFKx DJ
Probably was the SLL, actually. I think I've misread my notes there. Glencore, Indonesian i JV, ISA, 1 billion sustainability linked loan for commodities. Let's see what happens there.
00:20:57
SFKx DJ
little bit on the retail side with Coles Co., ah Kei Henshin building, I think that's probably Korean or Japanese on the property side, Spark Finance on the energy side and BBVA in Mexico.
00:21:11
SFKx DJ
um and Looking at a few things there. So that's on the link side. If we jump to the use of proceeds, let's have a yeah let's have a look. Austrian Swiss franc green bond issued to kick off their activities this year. South Korea readies and sovereign bond for market return in 2026. France launches something for 2025.
00:21:34
SFKx DJ
Stockholm, I think municipal entity. I can't remember. I can't read my notes actually on the municipal side, looking at some things there. Hubei United development as well on the municipal side in in China.
00:21:50
SFKx DJ
we look at the banks again, the banks are really driving insurance and continuing to be a major player in these markets. ACBC in the Philippines, D&B over in the Nordics, SpareBank in Europe, ABN in Europe.
00:22:05
SFKx DJ
What else have we got here? yeah and Business Development Bank, and Vietnam's Techcom, Car Bay, Swedish Export Bank, BDOs, Bandiri in Indonesia, all sorts of banks um active active there. On the property side, Baxe, VACSE, Mitsui Fudo Samar over in Japan, Guokot Tower in Singapore.
00:22:28
SFKx DJ
Then to the utility side, what have we got here? Oglethorpe, Power, um Europe, EDF in Europe, Reykjavik Energy in Europe, ah Turkish renewables, Iraday Orsel, Dominica, I've completely messed that up, ah Viva Cura, Contour Global, and a host of others. So, you know, look at the power coming out of the sovereigns, municipal banks, property, utilities, and then your other sort of mixture of sectors, Skatek on, on,
00:23:00
SFKx DJ
Renewable Energy Services, never Netherlands Gas Uini on the gas infrastructure site, Atlantic Salmon, couple of fishing companies around, mainly from the Nordics, pretty good shape there.
00:23:12
SFKx DJ
ah Shipping Hapak Lloyd, Airports Japan Airport Terminal Co. On the subject of ports ITS, and what have we got here? Aluminium. and There was a Hydro Green, or Hydro was the company's um They're doing some interesting stuff on product recycling.
00:23:30
SFKx DJ
Maybe a little bit on the transition side, but um a little bit debatable there. But I think anything that the aluminium sector can do is a key contributed global GHGs I think is good. um Data centers, we talked about AI before and the ongoing huge expansion of energy demands for those Equinax, Singtel, Switch, all looking at different bonds and loans to to power, pardon the pun, data centers going going forward. So it's been a pretty active event.
00:23:59
SFKx DJ
um It's been a pretty active active time, as you can see, in the in the market. couple of other things. Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transport Association, ah Alexia on the chemical side, Artglass on the glass side, um materials companies, um Echo Material Co., Ambipar, Environmental Management, some telcos.
00:24:25
SFKx DJ
Ildi to France, a couple of social bonds, as I say, they're generally lumped with other things now. ah Rhode Island Housing, Nuffin, and Hamburger, Spaxen, I must have met messed up that that name on the social site.
00:24:42
SFKx DJ
All right, let's jump to our question bot, Murray. And Murray is a good friend and a robot, and he's just got back from getting charged. So he's asked, and what's the significance of US investors warming to OPEX and green bonds?
00:24:56
SFKx DJ
Look, I think OPEX and CAPEX is generally all about, I'd say a few things, permanence. and impact and additionality.
00:25:07
SFKx DJ
And traditionally the market said, look, capex is real assets. It sits there, you spend the dollar, but then you're getting benefit and impact from that over time. If it's more opex, it's just you know one off one time rather than the dollar you spend generating impact over many years.
00:25:23
SFKx DJ
But you need a bit of opex to maintain your capex. Over a few years, look back periods again, which is about additionality. People didn't really like, you OPEX for one, but if you're going to put it in, have a stricter, you know, look back period, maybe after two or three years and and less strict around ah look back periods going sort of beyond that, at least for CAPEX.
00:25:47
SFKx DJ
um The EU GBS has some pretty strict requirements and much more formulaic requirements about that. But I think it's just a good thing. As long as you're explaining what's in a framework, what's being funded, it's really then in the eye of the beholder of the investor to say we like that or we don't.
00:26:04
SFKx DJ
And one of the lenses, whether we like it or not, is just additionality and impact. If something's really just refinancing some expenditures that have been done three years ago on their OPEX, impact is probably more debatable than CAPEX that's been done over a more recent period. So,
00:26:20
SFKx DJ
Yeah, I think it's a good maturing in the market. And once people's ideas and a firm and there is disclosure, that's when you can make up your own mind of the menu of different things.
00:26:34
SFKx DJ
The issues are understood and sometimes it's a spectrum. And some investors are like that somewhat. So I think that's... um That's what we can talk about there. um The enabling and green bo green principles that came out under guidance, I should say, from ICMA last year, the International Capital Market Association. We've seen a couple of things um being issued under that. not so Not so much. I think it'll start to take off because it sort of feeds. There's still no real common bond.
00:27:06
SFKx DJ
That's not a good use of word. Common principles for transition financing. And I think, you know, some of the things that could be parked under transition when you're getting into some of the mining aspects of key commodities for things like batteries, you know, you can put that under a bit of this enabling, um enabling
Currency Hedging for Green Growth
00:27:25
SFKx DJ
label. So, yeah, I think we're going to see a bit more of that this year.
00:27:27
SFKx DJ
Okay, last segment, um products and programs I'd say look more of the same. Hedging currency risk to aid green growth. MDB is talking about that really for subsidization to help cross currency swaps and those sorts of things. I think that's good.
00:27:46
SFKx DJ
um and Solar loans be um being looked at, agri loans being looked at for barley farmers. B-A-R-L-E-Y, that is rather than in Bali. um Sustainability Link Loans launched for Tilly Farmers. So I think programs for SLLs, programs for Anchory, programs for solar and more FX options, particularly for those that require cross-currency swaps and how NDBs can come in and help that because it is pretty prohibitive sometimes in terms of the overall.
00:28:15
SFKx DJ
financing or costing out costing mix there. OCBC Bank in Singapore, Enterprise Singapore offers SME sustainability assessments. Super cool, that's good good to see. And really, that has come to the end of the podcast. I think we're just under half an hour. So hopefully everyone that enjoyed our 21st episode.
00:28:33
SFKx DJ
As we said at the start, look, that's all we got time for. We hope you like our podcast. We try and bring you an array of things that we think are important to spark some thinking. It's not meant to be a 10-hour podcast giving you too many details of everything, but trying to keep it and relevant to what are the issues impacting sustainable finance and then what are some of the transactions we see and what's you know, where's the action? who's ah Who's tapping on the dance floor and where?
00:29:03
SFKx DJ
So as I said at the start, check us out on Twitter or X at SustFinanceKX, one word, or LinkedIn is the big one on the website where we're are' giving a bit of touch up and a makeover at the moment. LinkedIn Sustainable Finance KX, you'll be able to find links to our podcasts and various other podcasts.
00:29:20
SFKx DJ
Various other things. So look, um this is SFDJ signing off on our 21st episode. We hope you enjoyed it and we'll see you pretty darn soon. Thank you. Goodbye. And I haven't done a yeehaw for a while, so yeehaw.
00:29:34
SFKx DJ
See you next time.
00:29:37
SFKx DJ
Yeehaw.
00:29:41
SFKx DJ
Yeehaw.