Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
E042: George Smith IV
1.5k Plays5 years ago
A night of fun turns this fairytale honeymoon into a horror story when one newlywed ends up lost at sea. Was it an accident? Or do the clues point to something more sinister?
Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/CoffeeAndCases)Recommended
Transcript
Summer Reflections: Vacations and Weddings
00:00:00
Speaker
As the end of summer slowly approaches, I think we all feel a bitter sweetness in the air as we reflect on summer's past. Beaches visited, sleepovers had, the works. For some, the best part about summer is vacation. A week to just get away and relax. To unplug from the rest of the world and to just be in the moment with friends or family.
00:00:21
Speaker
But for quite a few people, summer is wedding season. According to WeddingWire, 10% of weddings in the U.S. take place in August. So while others are relaxing on the beach, many are planning their trip down the aisle.
00:00:34
Speaker
My husband and I got married in March, but I can see the appeal of a summer wedding.
Tragedy on the Mediterranean: The Disappearance of George Smith IV
00:00:39
Speaker
Besides rain, there really isn't a threat of weather ruining your day. No one can get snowed in and miss a summer wedding. It can be challenging to find honeymoon spot for winter weddings, but not for those who decide to get married in summer. Like the couple in our story today, there are a plethora of options for a honeymoon.
00:00:57
Speaker
Like many others, our couple found appeal in cruising the Mediterranean Sea. According to maritime executives, some 28 million people around the world went on cruises in 2018, which is significantly higher than 2005 when our story takes place. With great food, lots of entertainment, and decent prices, there's ample appeal in taking to the Seven Seas. For our newlyweds, as summer was in full swing, their lives were being turned upside down.
00:01:26
Speaker
That July, as kids were eating popsicles and playing baseball, our family was searching for clues. At the height of promising futures, lives were changed forever. No one expected something bad to happen on a contained cruise ship, but something did happen. Something that ripped a family apart. Something that to this day remains unsolved. Will the answers to today's story remain lost at sea? This is the story of George Smith IV.
00:02:09
Speaker
So.
Podcast Introduction and Listener Challenge
00:02:29
Speaker
Welcome to coffee and cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Alison Williams. And my name is Maggie Damron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:02:48
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:03:06
Speaker
Before we begin our show today, we wanted to remind you about our challenge. You guys were so awesome for getting us to our 15 written comment goals so quickly that I know that was several months ago, but we decided to up the ante. This one is a lofty goal, but we know that we need to set our sights high. Maggie and I want to get to 150 ratings on Apple podcasts.
00:03:28
Speaker
We currently have 111, so we continue to inch up each week, but it does only take a split second if you're listening to us on Apple Podcast to click for that five-star rating. We have listeners from all over the world, so while this is a big ask, we know that you can do it.
00:03:45
Speaker
It has taken us a little bit longer to get to our goal this time of 150, but when we do, Maggie and I will do another bonus episode. Just make sure that you follow us on social media, Coffee and Cases podcast on Facebook, or at Coffee Cases podcast on Instagram, or as always, listen in each week to know when that bonus episode will
The Ideal Couple: George Smith IV and Jennifer Hagel
00:04:05
Speaker
air. Now, Maggie, let's get into our show.
00:04:08
Speaker
George Smith IV and Jennifer Hagel seemed from the outside the ideal couple. George was said to take over the family business. According to Mystery at Sea by Timothy Dumas, George graduated with a business degree in 2000. While working as a computer search engine analyst in Boston, he began to tire of the solidarity hours behind the desk.
00:04:31
Speaker
He was a social creature after all, happiest among the hustle and bustle of people. In 2003, he went to work for his father, who owned a liquor store. One day, as the plan went, George would take over the business and allow his parents to go into retirement. Jennifer was an aspiring teacher.
00:04:50
Speaker
Both were described as lovely and vivacious. In an interview with 48 Hours, George's mother and father talked in detail about how happy they were
A Dark Turn: George's Disappearance on the Cruise
00:04:59
Speaker
to have Jennifer in the family, and both were described as stunningly beautiful and ambitious. Well, I'd like to be described that way.
00:05:06
Speaker
Me too. I mean you just wait until they describe this lady's engagement ring. Oh no. Okay. George seems like a happy-go-lucky guy. Many of the stories I read about him described a man who was alive for the party. Someone who kept you laughing into the wee hours of the morning.
00:05:26
Speaker
George Smith at 26 years old was described as tall and deep chested with broad shoulders, a handsome face and twinkling blue eyes that reflected his kind and witty nature. So he was like, I mean, he was good looking. Yeah.
00:05:43
Speaker
I'll definitely post a picture for you guys. And from all accounts, that same happy George was who disappeared from his cruise ship in the early morning hours of July 5th. So when Jennifer and George boarded all was well, they instantly hit it off with another married couple, Paul and Galena.
00:06:00
Speaker
You say it, Allison, say it. I'm so bad with names. You all should see this. I even left her a note that said, tell me how to pronounce this. The two couples hit it off immediately. And as a result, we're seen by several guests hanging out and doing things together. According to a 48 hours episode, Galena says they were great. They were just normal, down to earth, happy people.
00:06:28
Speaker
Jennifer and George left all the sites they were able to see on their cruise ship when it docked at different ports. And I literally can only imagine that like in the Mediterranean Sea. Oh, I bet it was beautiful. Yeah. And they were on it for two weeks. Oh, must be nice. Yes.
00:06:43
Speaker
So there are dozens of photos that show the adventures they went on during their time at sea. Being social butterflies on dry land didn't change once these two hit the open water. Most nights they spent closing down the disco and the casino, which is totally opposite for me because I need to be in bed at a decent hour. You're right. You're like you have fun. I'd say you have fun. I'm going to go get an ice cream cone and then go to bed.
00:07:08
Speaker
In an interview with George's father, he talks in depth about what a party animal George could be. He described him as a life of the party, and it was that love of partying that began the events that would ultimately lead to the death of George Smith IV. Okay, so I think we can establish, don't go camping and don't go out partying. I mean, I feel like if you can... Right.
00:07:34
Speaker
Yeah, or that or well, gosh, I guess we could have lots of lessons if you looked at all of our different cases. But yeah, I feel like this is like a horror movie. It's like, don't go upstairs. Right. Don't go in the closet. Right. Don't go anywhere. Yeah.
00:07:50
Speaker
So around midnight on July 5th, 2005, the newlyweds headed to the casino. So from all the articles I read, this was apparently like where everybody who was like the age you could be admitted into the casino, that's where they hung out. So it was like a happening place. Okay.
00:08:08
Speaker
Jennifer, who was seen several times on security footage, spent most of the night at the blackjack table. Her husband spent most of his time at the craps table and I had no idea what craps were. Is that with dice? That's what Anthony said. So I guess. Is that where you do like snake eyes or like you want to get a certain, I don't know. I've never played it. I know, I know what blackjack is, but yeah.
00:08:35
Speaker
but yeah I had no idea but Anthony said it was that's what you said okay so we'll go with that yeah so right off the bat like this is just weird to me and like when I was watching some of the different videos and reading stuff it just kind of came off weird to me
00:08:51
Speaker
Like maybe I'm just too chicken, but like I could never see myself or you just being like, peace out Rodney, I'm gonna go play blackjack and you're gonna go here on this cruise ship by myself. Like I would never do that. No, we would be together everywhere.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah, especially if you're on your honeymoon. When you want to be together everywhere? Because when Anthony and I went to Mexico one summer, even when I had to pee, he walked me to wherever the bathroom
Unfolding Events and Suspicious Companions
00:09:18
Speaker
was. Right, just to make sure you're safe. I'm not going by myself. No. Now, almost every person that described George and Jennifer talked about how nicely they dressed and how they look like they like to have nice things. That's just a nice way to say they sounded stuck up. I mean, that's what it sounds like to me.
00:09:38
Speaker
Well, I didn't want to say that, but yeah, kind of. That is like, okay. Very used to creature comforts. I'll just say it that that's a much nicer way. Yeah. Cause even like when their parent or his parents talk about them, like you can tell that he liked to have nice things, which that's, there's not any like, I feel like you get a certain persona or like image sometimes when you're like that. And I think that followed him.
00:10:07
Speaker
like into the cruise ship. So like, the way that they dressed and the things that they had made people think that they were wealthy. That's kind of like, I mean, I carry a Michael Forest purse, but my mother-in-law bought it for me. So like, you know, I'm four. So maybe it's like the same thing. But George was overheard by several guests bragging about a large sum of money that he had in the room. Why would he do that?
00:10:36
Speaker
I think that is very stupid. I think maybe it was kind of like being a little bit pompous, but I'm sure they did have a lot of money because people give me money at your wedding, so I'm sure they really did. Oh, that's true. Yeah, all their wedding gifts.
00:10:50
Speaker
Yeah, and so he was like a really sharp-dressed man, and he wore a super expensive watch. And like I said, so many people, if you know like, hey, that watch is expensive, you would probably think that they're rich. His sister even says like, quote, I think George looked prosperous. Additionally, he wore a really nice watch that was worth a bit of money. People may have made the assumption he was a millionaire, even though he wasn't. Like I can't even say the name of this watch company.
00:11:18
Speaker
Like, which isn't surprising because it's me we're talking about. I guess they liked for people to believe that they were wealthy, even if they weren't.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, and that actually, his parents say that in the interview, like that he liked to put off that image, even though he wasn't. His mom even
Theories and Speculations
00:11:42
Speaker
said that he bought her the biggest diamond you could ever see for their engagement from a South African jeweler. And the wedding ring was even bigger. Wow.
00:11:53
Speaker
You don't need all that. I mean, sure. It's nice, you know, and I can look and I can admire but Yeah, I would have made me he gave me a ring out of like a cracker jack box. Right. I know. And like I'm one of those people to with spending money. I mean, don't get me wrong. Again, I like to have nice stuff. But like
00:12:11
Speaker
I don't know, I can get a steak from a steakhouse where, and maybe somebody who's listening will think I'm crazy to say this, but like, I can go to Kroger and buy the same filet and make it at my house. And it's $20 for a pound filet that I bought from Kroger. And to me, it tastes just as good as if I go to a steakhouse and I spend, you know, $80 for a six ounce filet.
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree. I definitely agree. But I looked up, so speaking of money, I looked up those watches, like the cheapest one I saw on their website was like $4,000. Oh my God. So, I mean, if you had an eye for those type of things, you would assume that, you know, you would assume he had money. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:05
Speaker
So obviously I've never been on a cruise, but I'm assuming that if you're a social person that you make friends on cruises and that you hang out with like a certain group of people, especially if you're on like a two week cruise, like the Smithsberg. Yeah. I mean, I've been on several cruises and where you really meet people though is at your dining sessions. So like when you book a cruise, you pick like you want the early dinner or the late dinner and they put you at a big table with other couples.
00:13:35
Speaker
And so you actually, like you talk to them at all of the meals that you go to. Oh, well, maybe that kind of explains this, but Jennifer and George actually had a really large circle of friends on the cruise ship. So it included the couple whose last name I can't say. Yes.
00:13:55
Speaker
And it also included a boy named Josh Askin and a group of Russian American students, two of which were cousins. Their name was Zach and Greg Rosenberg and their friend Rusty Kaufman. And so like throughout the story and then like I'm gonna probably just refer to them as Russian Americans because it's a lot of words to say all their names. Okay.
00:14:19
Speaker
So, according to the Mystery SE article, the Russian Americans had quite the reputation on board.
00:14:29
Speaker
And it's not a very good reputation. So before dawn on July 4th, they were found smoking by the main pool on deck 11 by a security guard. Gregory, who they also refer to as Greg, was super arrogant and loud and kept saying, nobody can stop me. And they kept shouting the F word. Oh, well, no call for that. Yes, which I would never do. I'd be like, sorry, sir.
00:14:58
Speaker
So they also had a reputation of abusing room service operators, which comes into play like as the story goes on. But on July 2nd, someone in state room 3004, which is where Greg and Jeff stayed, placed a gigantic, like lavish order to room service, like so much so that they got a visit from security. Oh, so thinking like somebody's messing with them. They're just wondering. OK.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah, and on July 5th, they do that again. So it actually is reported that the room service operator was jotting down an order from 3004, so that room where they were at, when a voice in the background said, quote, hurry up and bring your mother anything food. Well, I mean, that sounds like Gregory.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yes. And so then somebody grabbed the phone out of whoever's hand was placing the order. And I guess that their luggage, some of their luggage have been misplaced. And they said, quote, make sure to get our mother effing luggage tomorrow. And if you don't, I'll throw your mother effing a SS overboard. Oh my gosh. Talks to people like that.
00:16:17
Speaker
Like, I wouldn't like, I mean, I never say that, but no, I guess this was just normal for them. So again, they get a visit from security and then the security supervisor tells them not to take any more food service calls from that room.
00:16:34
Speaker
Well good for the security supervisor. Yeah and that does come up again like later on. So like fast forward and the casino is closing down. So remember they've been playing blackjack and craps. Right. Which is so weird but whatever.
00:16:51
Speaker
And Paul, their friend, the married friend, notes that George and Jennifer are very drunk. And so he urges them to call it a night, but they don't want to end the, like, festivities. So they head to the disco, and this fate, or this decision, would still the fate of George. Oh no.
00:17:10
Speaker
So as the cruise ship was pulling into dock at a city in Turkey, 16-year-old Emily was on her balcony snacking pictures of the beautiful sunrise. So first off, kudos to you, Emily, for being up early enough to take pictures of sunrise. Yeah, absolutely. The photo she ends up capturing has since flooded the internet. A massive blood stain on a lifeboat canopy. Oh, wasn't expecting that. Yeah, and actually, Allison, I'm going to show it to you.
00:17:40
Speaker
So we will be sure to post this picture. So you guys can see it as well. And I'm actually going to ask Allison to describe to you like what the picture looks like. Okay, it is very disturbing. There is a large blood stain in one spot. It looks like it's pulled actually like there's a lot of blood. It's darker and it's kind of like streaked like I would imagine it's big enough where like if someone
00:18:10
Speaker
We're laying down that it's it's almost like a torso, maybe a torso head and like a limb. I know. I mean, it's the way it looks. It's not just like a straight street like it's going on and different.
00:18:26
Speaker
Yeah, some people say that the blood stain patterns suggest that it's like hand prints and footprints as though somebody's like trying to stand so they fell and they're like trying to stand up and I can kind of see the footprint kind of. And then a lot of people say like at the end, like where it's kind of starts to fade, that is like his heartbreaking attempt to hold on as the ship cuts through the water.
00:18:55
Speaker
Oh no, that's sad. Which I think is horrific. I'm totally scared of drowning, so I can't even imagine. Well, like, I don't know what else other than a person would have landed on the top of a lifeboat. Right. Create this blood pattern. Yeah.
00:19:14
Speaker
So security officials are notified and the search begins for the person who fell overboard. So at this point they don't know like who it is. So they just know like right now they have a guess that's missing. Right. At the same time, Jennifer is making her way from her empty cabin to the ship's spa for a massage. Wait, wait. From her empty, so she knows George is not there. Yes, and I was hoping that you would catch it. She's going to get a massage.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yes. So she wakes up. She goes, she, which I think I mentioned this later on, so it might be repetitive, but oh well. So she wakes up and she sees that her husband isn't there. And she just assumes he spent a night with Paul and his wife. I mean, who would make that assumption? That's ridiculous. You're on your honeymoon. Yeah. Why would, why would you stay with your friend on your honeymoon? Did they separate at the disco? Because if they went to go together, then you would think that they would have gone back to the room together.
00:20:10
Speaker
So a lot happens at the disco. Oh okay. Jumping ahead. So she is getting massaged and she actually gets summoned to guest relations and once she gets there she's kind of stunned to see that Paul and Galena are also there because they've been interviewed by the people on the ship to see if they've seen George that day. And that is when the horrific news that George is presumed lost at sea it goes through the room. So up to this point she has no idea.
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, she has no idea why she's being called. She still thinks he's like sleeping in Paul's room. So everyone was shocked. Nobody knew what was happening. Nobody could really understand anything. And Galena actually told 48 hours that Jennifer just kept repeating she didn't understand and that she couldn't remember anything. So like she says that over and over again in the interview with guest relations and that she just wanted to call her dad. So it won't surprise you that she doesn't remember when I tell you the state that she was found in.
00:21:09
Speaker
Oh, Lord. Okay. So, Jennifer has zero memory of leaving the disco, like none. And like I said, she had assumed that she awoke to an empty cabin because George was staying with Paul and Galena.
The Morning After: Discovering George's Absence
00:21:24
Speaker
So, you know, weird, but I'm not going to judge you, whatever. So, she thought nothing of his absence when she made her way to the spa.
00:21:34
Speaker
And Jennifer, kudos to her for being able to get up at like seven o'clock in the morning because she didn't make it to her bedroom until like 4.50 a.m. So you go crawl. So Jennifer was actually found by a hotel staff, and I'll kind of go into detail about that a little later, passed out in the hallway that morning. Oh no. So she's a mess. Yes, she's a hot mess. Yeah. So, I mean, again, like, I would never,
00:22:02
Speaker
put myself into that situation. But I know I'm just like a worrier and a lot of people don't worry about that kind of stuff. But like, that would be my thought the entire time if I was to drink on a cruise ship is that I would be like
00:22:15
Speaker
kidnapped or someone would like drug me or something. So by this time Turkish police had boarded the ship because remember they're docked in Turkey so the Turkish police would be over any type of investigation. Right. And I know things are done differently in other entries and obviously the United States doesn't have a perfect judicial system as you know we see in the news every day.
00:22:37
Speaker
But I just feel like the way that some of this case was handled like kind of makes me want to scratch my head. So when police board the ship, they called Josh, Rusty, Zach, and Greg. So the four friends that the couple made to the ship lobby. So none of the women are called.
00:22:57
Speaker
Okay. Right. And so while they're in the lobby, they interview them all together at the same time.
Investigations and Family Disagreements
00:23:03
Speaker
That's totally not what you do either. Which I think is weird. Yeah. You want to get it separately because if different people don't know what another person's saying and they report the same thing, then it's a way to like corroborate evidence. Right. And I'm wondering if that's just like a United States thing.
00:23:21
Speaker
Or like, like, I don't know what other country's policies are. Right. But Josh's father is there too. And he actually secretly records parts of the interview, which is probably illegal, but you know. But he did it. But he did it. So in one scene, Rusty actually puts his hand like out to his mouth, like he's in complete shock and like his jaw kind of drops open, which
00:23:48
Speaker
I'll leave my comments about these people to the end, but you'll see why. I just find this hard to believe. And they're all like, oh my God, this is crazy. Like super shocked. But videos that are later released throw their shock and concern into question. Yeah, this would be when it would go like, dun, dun, dun.
00:24:11
Speaker
So, the four men that I mentioned above don't really come into the picture until around 2.30 when the casino's closing down. Okay. So, like, I mean, you see security footage of them playing games or whatever with the married couple, but, like, they don't really play any significance until around 2.30.
00:24:32
Speaker
So it's then, according to 48 hours, that Josh notices an awkward moment between newlywed Jennifer. So George is Jennifer. Yeah, George is Jennifer and casino manager Lloyd. Hmm. I wonder awkward how.
00:24:52
Speaker
So he goes on to say that it's awkward because Lloyd puts his arm around Jennifer in what appeared to be an embrace while husband George was on the elevator. He said it was briefly, but it was like awkward enough that it drew his attention to them. So could Jennifer have played a role in the death of her husband? Gosh, I don't, I mean, hmm.
00:25:20
Speaker
I'm torn on this one right now. Mostly because, I mean, there are a lot of creepy people out in this world, men and women. And I've known people who can be touchy and they don't realize that you have personal boundaries and you don't want to be touched. Yeah. And I also feel like a casino manager would need to be like,
00:25:40
Speaker
like really like peppy and peopley and so maybe it's just like hey like as a you know a friend or whatever. Right like that doesn't make me automatically jump into this like oh yep she did it she yeah you know with somebody else or something like that.
00:25:56
Speaker
I agree. So when everybody arrives at the disco, the guys start taking shots of absinthe, which is super strong. Yeah, I didn't know what it was so I had to ask anything. He said that it was like a super strong like liquor and that sometimes it can cause hallucinations, I guess. Yeah.
00:26:18
Speaker
So according to the Mystery at Seas article, on July 1st, the Smiths caught a taxi into Florence with the Askin family. So like Josh's parents and their kids and the Smiths all share a taxi into Florence. And so while they're there, Josh, who at the time is 20. Oh, so he's pretty young. Okay. Yeah.
00:26:46
Speaker
Um, which I know drinking age is different in Europe than it is in America. So he buys a bottle of accent and as, as Americans know, that is like banned in the United States and he convinces George to smuggle it aboard the ship. Okay. Again, I, I'm not, I don't break rules. Like no, nothing about this story is am I thinking like, Oh yeah, I could see that. Nope. I wouldn't do that either.
00:27:15
Speaker
No, I'd be like, damn, Josh, we're not allowed to do that. Sorry. Shouldn't be like that. If you want to take the risk, you go right ahead, but not me. So, um, George is just like, okay, sure. And text the bottle of alcohol into his waistband and just like strolls right on up to the ship.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah. Nope. Again, I'd be like, oh my gosh, who has noticed this? They're going to see this under my shirt. Somebody's going to stop me. Yeah. I'm the person that I don't even sneak candy into the movie theater because I'm like, it's illegal. Right.
More Questions Than Answers: Drugging and Suspicion
00:27:48
Speaker
They're gonna arrest you. I will pay five dollars for that little box of Sour Patch Kids because you told me I had to. So fast forward a few days later and everybody in their group is shmammered. They are highly intoxicated. So a lot of people that saw this group of friends described Jennifer as flirty and drunk around like 3 30 that morning.
00:28:16
Speaker
So that Askin's attorney actually paints a super cozy picture of Jennifer and Lloyd. So the casino guy? Nestling up together on a couch. Okay, now that's weird. But part of me is like, I think this is fabricated because nobody except Josh reports that. Like nobody else said anything about that.
00:28:40
Speaker
if they're all there you'd think somebody else would see it. Right. So Rusty's attorney, one of the Russian-American friends, told 48 Hours that he didn't hear the conversation but saw the repercussions of said conversation when Jennifer kicks George in the no-no area and storms off. Like this does not seem to me like
00:29:07
Speaker
I don't know. I could see how, I know you said you start to question this group. And I could see how, like, if you were responsible, but you wanted to lay the blame on Jennifer, then you would kind of fabricate a story like this. Like she was getting cozy with another guy. But then you think George would be the one who's upset, not Jennifer kicking George, you know, between his legs, storming off.
00:29:37
Speaker
But people actually add to the story and say that George called Jennifer a hussy, and then she kicked him between the legs. Oh, so that's why she kicked him. So, you know, either way, Jennifer is mad, and she leaves the casino, or I'm sorry, the disco, in care of Lloyd. So again, with that's okay.
00:30:01
Speaker
So to clear up any misconceptions that could be floating around in our listeners' heads, both Lloyd and Jennifer pass FBI polygraph tests, and key scans show that once Lloyd gets Jennifer on the elevator, he actually goes to his room with his girlfriend. Oh, well that seems to say to me that there wasn't anything, because if there was something, why wouldn't he have stayed?
00:30:27
Speaker
in her room with her, especially because George isn't there. Right, exactly. So nobody realizes actually how disoriented Jennifer is. So when she gets off the elevator, she goes right instead of left toward their room.
00:30:45
Speaker
She actually just keeps wandering until she comes to a day and the ships bow and there she slaps to the floor and conscious. Oh, that explains why she was found passed out on the floor. Yeah, like she couldn't find her room. Yeah, so that's where she is found. Several hours later by hotel staff and they actually take her back to her room and I'll talk about that here in just a second as well. OK.
00:31:08
Speaker
So George stays in the disco just 15 minutes, like longer than when Jennifer lit. So it's not like an extraordinarily long amount of time he's in there without her. So about 345 he's apparently so drunk on vodka and absent that his four friends, so the Russian Americans and Josh somehow who are, you know, completely totally sober or in enough. How's that happen?
00:31:34
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. I mean, they might not be sober, but they are sober enough that they take him back to his room and that they put him to bed. Now, Paul did state that he thought George was kind of a lightweight and that he would show signs of being intoxicated after only three or four beers. So maybe that could have something to do with it. You know, maybe like alcohol just had a more profound effect on him. I'm not really sure.
00:32:03
Speaker
But when they come back to the room, George is concerned because his wife isn't there. And so he enlisted the help of his four friends to search for her. But the search literally lasts nine minutes and then they come back empty handed. So not really a search.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah they go to the pool and the like deck 13 and then they come back. I would hope that if I were missing that Rodney wouldn't be like oh well it's been five minutes I've looked long enough so I'll
Seeking Public Assistance: A Call for Tips
00:32:35
Speaker
just. She's obviously gone forever. Right now I'm super confused though because at this point and I'm sure you'll get to it
00:32:44
Speaker
First, Jennifer is passed out somewhere, but George is in the room. But in the morning, Jennifer is in the room, but George is not. Yes.
00:32:56
Speaker
OK, I'm ready. OK, so Jennifer is found in the hallway by a plumber around this same time, so for like 4 o'clock ish for 15 ish. So he calls supervisors and security officers and they arrive on the scene and they get her back to room 9062 at 450 AM. So again, kudos to Jennifer for waking up for her massage at 7 o'clock that next morning. Oh, true. Didn't even she? She needed that massage. Yeah.
00:33:26
Speaker
So when they get her in her room, they all notice that the balcony curtains are closed and motionless. So meaning that the sliding glass door had to be closed because even if it was a windless night,
00:33:41
Speaker
if the doors were open. Yeah, it's still blowing the breeze. Yeah. And nobody else is in the room. So at this point, this is seeming to me like Jennifer has nothing to do with George because she's passed out, I'm sure it was on cameras likely anyway, in the hallway. And then somebody has to escort her to the room and now George isn't there. But we know that he returned to the room 49 minutes earlier.
00:34:12
Speaker
correct. So it goes down in that 49 minutes. Okay. So in their original statements, the boys say that Josh went to the bathroom and that the other three put George to bed. Like they removed his shoes, covered him up and they leave. You know, I don't believe this. They do not seem the type who would be that caring.
00:34:33
Speaker
Yeah, I don't believe it's full crap. Yeah. And I know I don't know these people and I'm making judgments on them, but I'm judging right now. The people who are going to look at, you know, those who work on the cruise ship who are trying to help them and say like F you and start cursing at them do not seem to type to me who would be concerned enough for taking, you know, somebody who they just met taking his shoes off of his feet. Yeah. Nope.
00:35:01
Speaker
So shortly after they like air quotes, put George to bed. Okay. Cleet Hyman, who was staying in the cabin next door to the Smiths, overheard yelling like, and it was so loud that he just assumed they were drunk and playing some type of drinking game. So not putting him to bed again. So he's clearly not asleep. Right.
00:35:26
Speaker
So he told 48 hours quote, suddenly there was an argument out on the Smith balcony. This argument appeared to be between three, maybe four individuals. So that would explain why Josh is in the potty right now. Yep.
00:35:40
Speaker
After about two minutes of the argument, we heard one lone male voice repeatedly saying, good night, good night, good night. Like they were ushering someone out of the room. I looked out and saw three male individuals walking away from the room. Wait, there's four though. Right. There are four plus George and he sees three leaves. So somebody's still there. Mm-hmm.
00:36:08
Speaker
So my guess obviously is number four is still in the cabin. One of their lawyers tried to say that one of them is a larger set man and that the fourth was walking in front of him and you couldn't see him. Oh no. No. I'm just doubting everything right now. Like no. So the hymens go back to bed only to be jolted awake by sound they will never forget a horrific thud.
00:36:36
Speaker
So we know now that this was likely George hitting the lifeboat canopy. But at the time, they just chalk it up to rowdy drunk men and they go back to bed. This is approximately 4.30, so just 20 minutes before his wife comes back into the room. And the balcony door is closed and nobody else is in there. Right, so somebody had to close the balcony door. Mm-hmm.
00:37:00
Speaker
So at the same time, Jennifer is found drunk and they're bringing her back up to the ring. So George, his death is ultimately ruled by the captain to be an accident. He says he thinks that George was intoxicated, went outside to smoke a cigar, tried to sit on the rail and fell over backwards.
00:37:21
Speaker
then why weren't one of the other three to four men who were overheard by the guy in the neighboring cabin calling someone saying, hey, our friend just fell off of the balcony onto a lifeboat? Well, they think that that's after the man left. He goes out there. But only three left. That's what I'm saying. Also, if you're just popping outside to smoke a cigar, you're not going to close the curtains and the glass door. No, you'd leave them all open. Yeah, you're not going to do that.
00:37:51
Speaker
So George's family and the FBI disagree with what the captain says. And new evidence would soon emerge that would blow the roof off the quote accidental death claim. Oh, what evidence.
00:38:08
Speaker
So one small piece of evidence was there were two small lines of blood, and I'm going to show those to you, Allison, if I can get that pulled up. But there's two small lines of blood showed or found on the sheets in their cabin, and they belong to George. Okay, so Sleuthhouse couldn't get the picture pulled up because
00:38:32
Speaker
technology's not my friend today, but I will try to get it and post it for you guys. So basically they are two like streaks of blood, maybe like maybe an inch or two long, and they're like parallel to each other, like perfectly parallel to each other. So it's weird. And many people think this could be from George's watch being pulled off his hand or perhaps like a pinch that it would make if it were removed. Gotcha.
00:39:02
Speaker
So if he were super drunk, it wouldn't have been hard to get his watch off. So remember, they told police they put George to bed. So maybe they're super nice and took his watch off and accidentally pinched him in the process. Now that I believe. So Josh continues to draw attention to himself. So this is the younger 20 year old. So he keeps repeating the story of Jennifer and Lloyd to the officials. He does super weird things in the following days, like asking the like ship staff
00:39:31
Speaker
if the hallways on the ship have surveillance cameras where they are located. Okay, that's a red flag. Yeah, and bing, bing, bing. So a few days later, he's actually on the elevator with Joan Cox, who's the head cleaner on the ship, and he is overheard telling his like shipboard girlfriend, which I didn't know that was a thing, that he said those eight holes got me in trouble, almost got me arrested in Turkey, and I know more than they think I know.
00:40:01
Speaker
Oh. So even more disturbing than that, which I feel like is very, very disturbing, is a video that the Smith's lawyer would later get access to. So it was a lunch meeting that the Russian Americans recorded and Josh wasn't present. So the two cousins and their friend. So in the video, they're passing around the camera and they're talking about George's death. Okay. That's bizarre to me.
00:40:29
Speaker
That's completely insensitive. Yeah. And it's not like they're like, like rest in peace. We love you George. You'll be missed. It's like they're laughing and making fun of his death. Oh wow. And one of them even says in the video, and this was like according to 48 hours that George took a parachute ride off his balcony. Oh my gosh.
00:40:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's clearly not concerned. No. So remember, these are also the individuals that have threatened to push room service attendants overboard too. That's right. So this behavior isn't surprising and it's especially not surprising when you, when you learn that this group also had rape charge allegations circling about them during this cruise. Oh my goodness.
00:41:20
Speaker
So in several places I read that the Russian Americans raped a woman on staff with the cruise ship and recorded it. I bet they recorded whatever they did to George too then if they did it.
00:41:32
Speaker
Oh, good point. Because if they're going to record crimes, why wouldn't they have recorded something else too? Yeah. And like, um, this might've been on 48 hours. It might've been on something else I read, but they said that, um, like one cousin was, or one Russian American was like narrating what was happening.
00:41:54
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that is so disturbing. And their lawyer says that it was consensual, but the girl is like crying in the video apparently. Oh my goodness. And so this happens like off the coast of Italy and the police, the Italian police investigate it, but they basically say like, we have no jurisdiction and we're not doing anything with it. Oh, cause are they at a different port now? And that's why I think this was before George's death.
00:42:23
Speaker
Okay so one theory suggests and I kind of like can see where this would come from that Jennifer and George were roofied so they were you know slipped and apparently that happens a lot on cruise ships and like if you're given roofies you black out and you have amnesia so like if you've seen the hangover that's what happens you don't remember anything that you do. That could explain her passing out in the hallway
00:42:50
Speaker
Yeah, so this is the only time that night is the only time that Jennifer got so drunk that she doesn't remember anything. That's right because she kept saying I'm confused. I don't remember. I'm confused. I don't remember.
00:43:06
Speaker
And there was no other night on their cruise ship when she got that intoxicated that she forgot. So this is the only night that that happened. And it also makes sense now why all of the guys drank the absence, but George is the only one to act this completely intoxicated fool where all the others were fine.
00:43:25
Speaker
Right, and that's what the next thing said that I was going to mention. So it says that he deteriorated rapidly the morning of July 5th. There were several people that saw them just a couple hours before that and said that George wasn't drunk and this was at 2.30 in the morning. So only like two hours before all this happened and that Jennifer was very coherent was how they were described. Yeah, you don't go downhill that fast.
00:43:55
Speaker
Yeah. And it's really only an hour later that she's kicking him in the groin and he's calling her a hussy because they're both so drunk. So, um, Jennifer's attorney says it's a reasonable possibility that she was roofied and that he might have been as well. And he says, quote, I find it strange that all these young men had to carry George back to his room, might have been excessive drinking, but it sounds like more than that to me. I agree. I agree with that.
00:44:23
Speaker
Me too. Like when I first read this before I even got to the theory about being Ruthie'd, I was like, she was drugged. So were they drugged? And was it an attempted robbery? As I mentioned earlier, the Smith family seemed to think that could be a possibility.
00:44:43
Speaker
Jennifer since has moved on she's remarried and from what I read online Jennifer and the Smiths actually fill out not long after the death of George like they don't speak period now. Well I mean I wonder if because she's alive and her son isn't if there's some sort of like guilt or blame placed on her like for not
00:45:07
Speaker
you know, staying right next to a side. I'm I'm sure that would be hard. Yeah, and also read side also read somewhere too that she wanted to move on and they just wouldn't ever let her move on. So that's kind of why she cut ties to them. But the Smiths are offering a $100,000 reward for information concerning the case. That would be like influential with the case.
00:45:35
Speaker
But what's sad is, so remember this happened in 2005, and I think I read somewhere the FBI investigated it for like nine years, but they have pulled out from the investigation. Oh, that is sad. So they actually determined there's not enough evidence to carry on with investigation. I disagree with that. Me too! And so does his family. I think that is cockamamie. I'm telling you, somebody, if, okay.
00:46:01
Speaker
And again, I don't want to get myself killed by blaming people who are innocent, but I don't, it worries me if these stories are true that this group of people would knowingly be
00:46:18
Speaker
so mean to people who've done nothing to them, that they would commit crimes and video it, that they could be so insensitive as to mock someone who they claim as their friend who has just died. They seem to me in all of these stories, if these stories are true, to be cocky enough
00:46:45
Speaker
about being safe or above the law, that they would have told someone. They would have mentioned it. They would have recorded it. They would have, somebody knows. Right. And I will say that first off, so after they heard like initial interviews, they, anytime they're interviewed after that, they plead the fifth to every question. Like even like, can you state your name? And they say, I vote my fifth amendment right.
00:47:16
Speaker
like every questions are. But the lawyer says that that is him telling them to do that because they were basically told like, if your story differs at all, you will be arrested. So I mean, I could get that, especially just several years later, you're going to forget some things. Right. Or remember it differently. Yeah. And I will say like 48 hours in the show, they did call it like,
00:47:42
Speaker
and basically kind of stopped one up on which I thought was like really rude but I guess people do that and caught him like coming out of work and he looked like a very professional person like out on a suit and was like he wasn't rude he was just like
00:47:56
Speaker
you can speak to my attorney, which I feel like any person would say. So like, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say all of this stuff was made up about them and that, you know, they were maybe young and drunk and that's why they were rude to the room service attendant and the security guard and stuff, you know, but if they did rape somebody, there's no excuse for that. But, you know, I mean, I want to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. This, I just don't know.
00:48:24
Speaker
I don't know either. When a life is cut short, it leaves us wondering why. We're left with unanswered questions and an empty spot we struggle to fill. I think it's even more the case when someone dies with no explanation. When a death is senseless, we get angry. We want justice to prevail. When a case has so many clues, so many leads, but no answers, what happens next?
00:48:50
Speaker
That's where you come in, Sloophounds. 2005 wasn't that long ago. Millions of people take cruises each year. The Smith's cruise ship was likely packed. Maybe you were on it. Maybe you overheard a conversation, saw something that you considered insignificant. But to the people working each day to crack this case, that siding or conversation might just be the piece they're looking for. Help bring it in to the Ministry at Sea. Help us solve the case of George Smith IV.
00:49:21
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
00:49:50
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.