Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to a new episode of the InSilico Terminal podcast. Today I am talking to Parker from perps.fun and you are the founder I would assume.
Speaker: Yeah, ah co-founder. ken can you can you Can you tell me a bit about the project, what it is, what it does, what what your role is? Yeah, yeah. So we're essentially building the first HIP3 launchpad.
Speaker: um the The whole goal is to make HIP3 and you know subsequent protocols on Hyperliquid accessible to third parties, to outsiders, without needing to park 30 odd million ah dollars, um having some financial engineering capabilities, and all the other things that you kind of need to get in.
Speaker: Get an order before you can launch a viable derivatives market.
Speaker: why Why do you feel like that is a necessary thing to do? like it There are already like TradeXYZ exists and it's like the biggest HIP3 thing, kind of like the biggest market share, even with crypto stuff nowadays.
Speaker: um And they have a lot of markets listed. There were other HIP3 providers. Why do you feel like you're your product should exist for people to give more optionality? Yeah, I think for the majority of markets out there, they will serve it perfectly well.
Speaker: um We are more so trying to serve the, i don't know, let's call it long tail or edge case where there somebody who might own a certain data set, some sort of IP,
Speaker: um you know such as an ETF um or maybe they're a market maker and they have these kind of fringe ah markets and strategies that that they want to bring um to the public.
Speaker: and and That's kind of where we come in. um And I think there is a world where someone like TradeXYZ is serving the bulk of the household names that you know everybody is familiar with and and used to trading.
Speaker: um And then someone like us makes it possible for an ETF or so and so someone like that to actually own their product. um Historically, just a handful of exchanges get to reap all the rewards.
Speaker: um And this will be essentially the first time that anybody can just come and actually own their product um and you know open up a new avenue ah revenue.
Speaker: You're not launched yet, right? No, imminent, like more or less a week away. Mm-hmm. So it might already be the case why by the time this podcast is released. Yeah, yeah, depending.
Speaker: what What is like, um what what made you start this product? What's like your story and why did you decide to to do this? Yeah, so we were building um a terminal called Aura um prior to PurpStopFun.
Speaker: okay um For a handful of reasons, we pivoted to Perp's fund mainly because we just saw the terminal space getting extremely busy, extremely quick. It was kind of coincided with the rise of AI.
Speaker: um So it wasn't very good timing. um And we just got kind of allured by you know one step um lower on the stack, on the on the asset creation itself.
Speaker: um Because ultimately, we were always building for this world where Onchain was going to be the venue that you know kind of all these different capital markets collide in in one place.
Speaker: um And so we felt that going one step below was was the best way to actually accelerate that outcome but and and play a direct hand in that.
Speaker: um A lot has changed in the HIB3 landscape, um but I think what inspired us to begin with is still true to this day in that um we kind of looked around and there was a but handful of teams, some know came and went, ah that were you know all struggling with a few set of problems, right? There's the capital, there's financial engineering, and there's liquidity.
Speaker: who um and so you know One team obviously did a great job of executing on all those fronts and kind of capture the bulk of the the value.
Speaker: But we always felt that um regardless of where you know the chips fell over time in terms of value, there would always be this um this you know opportunity and role to to play um to to make it possible for someone like an ETF or someone from across the pond in TradFi to you know not have to build out a whole team, ah park a bunch of capital, on and so forth, just to have maybe one, two, three products listed and have a significant you know ownership of that.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Do you have any like concrete examples if you if you can share them or if you that you like maybe think are going to be there once you release of like a concrete product or like a team or community or whatever that's going to launch their market for you?
Speaker: Yeah, so I can't give them exact names. We'll be announcing it ASAP. um But yeah, you can think of certain indices um that are out there that, you know, they're very well referenced um and tracked and followed by traders. And so they bring their official brand and recognition to that name um instead of us just going out there and posting their data.
Speaker: um Some other examples would be market makers out of niche regions. um So, you know, they're they're already trading a lot of these products. They know the microstructure of those markets really well, um connections in the region to to other, you know, firms and investment banks and so on and so forth.
Speaker: um and then And then it ventures all the way out to people just experimenting with net new things. So, you know, um new indices and indexes and stuff like that with very, very long tail um kind of focuses.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. What have been like um challenges you've encountered so far preparing for the launch, like building the product? And obviously it's not yet out, so you don't know what what it's going to be like when it's it's more battle tested or whatever. But like coming up to the launch, what sort of challenges have you encountered?
Speaker: The biggest ones have just been go to market related. So there's a lot of cats we need to herd. Right. So um since we have a sub deployer model, ah people come and apply. we have to that the teams we have to that the ideas like do they even make sense from a financial engineering standpoint? What edge, what right to win do you have in this vertical?
Speaker: um And then assuming you know those checks pass, ah there's a bit of a you know lengthy legal process. And then we have to coordinate on the Oracle program side with our partner, SEDA.
Speaker: um And then you know obviously Kinetic, um because all of our markets will be hosted on their exchange ultimately. um And then, you know, depending, it's very case by case, but sometimes it's a market maker themselves.
Speaker: Sometimes they have relationships with market makers. Sometimes we need to help foster those. ah So it's a lot of moving parts that need to come together. um It's been a like there's been a lot of growing pains in and navigating those.
Speaker: But into the future, we're we're pretty optimistic. Our throughput will be um pretty substantial. What sort of criteria do you look for in the vetting process?
Speaker: Yeah, so there's the like the quantitative and the qualitative. So on the quantitative side, um we, you know, um one of my colleagues, Justin, a former um trader at Jump, that's his full time job is just, um you know, are these markets viable?
Speaker: What are the attack factors? um what's the What's the funding methodology? Because we really We everything from, you know, maybe a vanilla equity to some very long tail stuff that, you know, it hasn't been done before. And so you have to kind of transform these data sets and concepts to a perp space and specifically to hyperliquid's perp space.
Speaker: um So there's a lot of little challenges that they'll often come with that. um And then qualitatively. Again, it's it's like TradeX, Y, Z and others have done ah you know a great job of eating up a ton of market share. So when whenever we ah consider allocating time and resources to a given um market, we we have to really ask ourselves like,
Speaker: yeah What's the probability of this succeeding here? and What kind of edge do you have in doing so? like Do you have a bunch of distribution? Do you bring a big brand equity to the table?
Speaker: ah you know market makers Are you a market maker yourself that can bring a bunch of day one liquidity? um These are the kind of questions that ah you know we ask um and determine.
Speaker: Since there's like so many different ah roles that people can fulfill that like apply for for making a market, um is there like a set model? like How does a fee sharing part work? Is it like a case-by-case basis or like a set thing for every everyone?
Speaker: Yeah, it's set. So there's three options. um ah The most common one is just a 45%. They get, they retain 45% ownership and it's exclusive um within Hyperliquid.
Speaker: So they could still, i don't know launch their market on LiDAR or, you name, you insert exchange here. But within the Hyperliquid bounds, they could only work with us.
Speaker: The second option is a 25% rev share, um but you know non-exclusive. And then lastly, there will be um opportunity for crypto ah teams to deploy ah you know their their own perps on their um underlying token, um but that will come with an upfront payment. So it'll be 2x the ticker cost.
Speaker: So give or take a thousand hype. um and they retain 45% ownership.
Speaker: Will they be able to like set the fees themselves so they can basically take ah whatever they want? It's a bit of a back and forth, yeah. um But again, as we're kind of mostly focused on slightly more long tail, slightly more esoteric stuff, we don't really plan to do any of the growth mode stuff. So we'll more or less hover around base fees.
Speaker: who Yeah, I think that makes sense. um What is in it for like um user perspective? Like what what kind of users do you hope to to attract with with these markets?
Speaker: um I mean, all sorts. ah ah We will be pushing the bounds on, you know, geographically, i think, but also ah we We really want to push the kind of the creative bounds of of the perp space.
Speaker: um Bring stuff to market that. You wouldn't normally think of. um But we're like, as of now, we've been It's been 100% inbound. We haven't done any outbound.
Speaker: um We expect that to change. um But given we were like pre-launch, we wanted to you know focus on the first few markets and do you know a good job getting them out the door.
Speaker: um But yeah, we've it's been and very interesting experience fielding the the applications we um we received 100 plus at this point.
Speaker: And you know the the diversity of them is it's crazy. So I can imagine that you are going to have more like exotic markets, I guess, because TradeXYZ is basically focusing on the biggest ones, what people most want to trade, but I think there's demand for like a lot, like or at least for a division, for Hyperliquid is kind of housing all of finance so everyone would kind of love if if you could trade like every single thing on earth on hyperliquid but um obviously it's not always easy to to get the the resources and the liquidity to make these sorts of markets but then I can imagine that you kind of fill this gap of like having a bit more
Speaker: I don't know if I have a good example whatever like Brazilian real or sort of called real or whatever but like Brazilian currency against a gun say Saudi Arabian currency or something like that uh-huh no it's funny you say that um you'll uh it's on topic of a announcement we'll have to yeah um ah But yeah, no, absolutely. Generally, I'd say broadly, the the focus is slightly more exotic.
Speaker: um That said, the incentives are in place for someone like a round hill to come and say like, yeah, we want to put our official stamp on on the DRAM ETF or something, you know, get 45% ah So it'll be a bit of both, but it'll probably be um a more longer term outcome for for those kinds of things to come to fruition.
Speaker: um But for now, it'll be ah slightly more exoticly flavored, I would say. why Why is it relevant if someone official kind of give their stamp of approval to your per product of their like ETF or whatever it is? I think there has also been a partnership with, I actually forgot what it was, but like I think Trader X, Y, Z has like.
Speaker: S&P 100. Yeah. why why Why is it important that it's like an official thing and you don't just like replicate ah the index? Yeah. what why why Why would traders like care? So it depends on who, um but I think especially on the institutional side of things, they will care because it implies the methodology is done one-to-one and you know um thoughtfully.
Speaker: um two you know They will bring um their constituents, so you know whatever network of of firms and whatnot that are that are around them to the table.
Speaker: um And yeah, I think. um I mean, even speaking um for myself, like back back then when hip three was still pretty nascent, they I believe the cues were the first thing they launched and then they they launched But it was very like, you know, that they couldn't use the name and because of trademark and this and that. And then as soon as I just you just see S&P 500 on the front end, you're like, ah, yes, no, it's it just feels like clean. and There's something about it. That actually makes sense. XYZ 100 is kind of like weird. Yeah, yeah. if yeah like What is this? You know, derivative.
Speaker: yeah we I think we talked mostly about like the professional side so far, but what I'm kind of thinking, or what is like a big topic inside of crypto all of these launchpads and whatever, and you're kind of like at least adjacent by by the name a little bit of perps.fun, which kind of implies everyone can like launch their own perp or whatever. so do do you think this is also going to be something interesting for meme coin communities or like more like bootstrapped from the ground stuff?
Speaker: Yeah. Or is it more like for a professional site only? It's a good question. It's something we've thought about a lot. I think someday we, like we have a beta app live right now actually.
Speaker: um And it's very much in line with this thought on a basically capital formation um for teams that you know don't have ah resources.
Speaker: um So I think this could be some long tail outcome, but in the immediate future, the focus is definitely more on established teams, um and institutional and so on and so forth. Again, i think with the market structure that is, you know, we've kind of arrived at on HIP3, someone really needs to have an edge um to win that vertical.
Speaker: Which um you know you can make the case for for like a meme coin team or something. if If there's genuine demand for that meme coin, then the team says, you know this is the official listing. 45% of the fees go back to buying back and burning the token or towards liquidity or something.
Speaker: i think that's a pretty compelling story. um But yeah, for now, ah it'll be more like direct b two b um Eventually, there will be an app that somewhat automates or at least reduces the friction um for the capital formation. It will it'll never be permissionless now because you know there is a lot of um you know
Speaker: aspects that are there's a lot that goes into making a viable perp market that's safe and doesn't lead to like a slashing event. um And so, you know, we have to um be careful on that um that end.
Speaker: I guess it it would sound nice in theory just for like the value of some whatever if you say like, hey, it's permissionless, but like making a perp market permissionless with all of the opportunities for manipulation is probably like a terrible idea if you really think about it. Yeah, it's ah it's a slippery slope.
Speaker: So there's there will always be some level of permission.
Speaker: So how do you make sure um when starting a new market, how do you go about sourcing liquidity and making sure that it's like viable, that like people are, that there's demand for it, people are going to trade it the the pricing is going to be fair, the Oracle system is like robust and stuff like that.
Speaker: Yeah, it's super case by case. It's always different. um Sometimes on the Oracle front, a market is super straightforward. Sometimes it takes weeks of financial engineering and um you know modeling.
Speaker: ah Is this something that you do with like the teams together? Like, for example, if they would want to list something like way more creative, maybe a market that hasn't been done in this way before. is it something where you like collaborate with the team together? Is it something where it's like your role of doing it or just their role or how would it work?
Speaker: Yeah, so we always have final say. um And sometimes the team is more collaborative, sometimes less. Sometimes the team comes with some, you know, grandiose idea and they're great on the business front, um but they don't really have anybody on the team that's great at financial engineering. So we do, you know, 99% of the work.
Speaker: Sometimes ah they do have um some financial engineering background and so it's more collaborative. ah But in every case, we always have um final say and final write-off on things.
Speaker: Then that gets handed over to um SATA. They also do some checks on their end um and then ultimately, hand it off to Kinetic. and By then, it's that's been through you know pretty rigorous um um testing and whatnot.
Speaker: listen um But on the liquidity front, again, is a similar story case by case. Sometimes the sub-deployer is a market maker and like, yep, we're just going to be trading the hell out of these markets day one. In other cases, they have existing relationships.
Speaker: um that they're just bringing over. ah Sometimes you know we have to help foster those relationships, so we open doors for them. um Or it's something that you know we expect to you know maybe not um come out the gate firing on on day one.
Speaker: um So it's something that needs to build up OI over time, and we can use something like a tread vault or something like that.
Speaker: Something just just came to my mind, but it's also probably like you can't really answer that that well or it's going to be like a case by case decision. um Recently, I think last week, two weeks ago something when the SNDK thing happened on the trade XYZ market, or I think on on many crypto markets actually, there were like some maybe allegedly ah manipulation occurred by by some some people, oracle manipulation and then had the price diverted a lot from from the mark price and then TradeXYZ actually decided to refund the people that were long because they got liquid liquidated unjustly.
Speaker: um And so like the question that popped into my mind was if that happened on one of your markets, like who would take responsibility for that? But I guess it's also a pretty case by case decision depending on how the market is set up and like,
Speaker: Yeah, all of it it's going to work exactly. Like I was just thinking through it i really quick. It's sometimes a subdeployer produces the data, right? Like it is their proprietary data.
Speaker: Sometimes it's not, you know, it's very readily available. um at the end of the day we kind of bear you know some level responsibility on the funding methodology for example um yeah there's just so many moving parts there it would just depend I suppose how do you go about funding actually like on one of the on some of the more exotic kind of thingies how is that calculated i'm I'm not too much of a
Speaker: expert on all of all of these topics but like crypto funding is more or less straightforward but if there's like not really a spot asset for which you're replicating with the perp or like I mean I guess there also isn't really on the on the other markets more or less I mean so they kind of have spot assets so they it kind of makes sense that there is funding and then like the the oil contracts and whatever work with like this rolling over mechanism which I have no idea about how it works but how how how do you go about like all of these calculations when deciding how to create funding rules for a market that makes sense
Speaker: First off, much of it is above my pay grade. That's my partner Justin's job. ah so but the only took risk That said, um there are a couple tools at our disposal. So you have things like price clamps.
Speaker: um So can't go above or below certain amount. ah You have you know so certain i smoothing um equations you can do. um ah But yeah, ultimately that's his full-time job on the quantitative side. So he vets the teams, vets the instruments, the data quality, um and then, you know, does the the the bulk of the the math and and logic there.
Speaker: Can you tell me a bit more about the Kinetic Partnership and about how that works? Yeah. Yeah, so we go way back. um We were the first team kind of confirmed um to use Kinetic Launch.
Speaker: Obviously, it's it's permissionless, but we knew about it um very early on. um And then as HIB3 kind of played out the way it did, right? Many people came many and many went.
Speaker: um We ultimately decided that it would be best for all parties, for us, for them, and their their existing backers on the staking side to basically join forces and, know,
Speaker: ah double the value instead of ah diluting it further. um So we are the exclusive code deployer on their exchange. So um all of our markets will be deployed on the MKTS um ticker.
Speaker: um And yeah, so we work very closely with them.
Speaker: what why ah What does it mean concretely? Like, why don't you deploy by yourself? Because it makes more sense already use like an existing employer kind of established. like I mean, what what happened on HIP3? Why did many of them leave? um It's because TradeXYZ got, you know, a bull the lion's share of market share.
Speaker: yeah And ah ultimately, these teams have to service a meaningful return on $30 million dollars or so, um which is a pretty like demanding um requirement.
Speaker: um So by joining forces, um we're able to you know ah combine the different value that we can create in terms of you know return um towards the existing set of stakers instead of having to dilute further. um And it's better off for basically all parties.
Speaker: for us, for them, um for the existing stakers, they they'll earn more um for that for their dollars staked. So, yeah. so yeah
Speaker: So you do do you use like ah part of their stake to have the stake for the markets? Is that it works? Yeah, yeah. So i said since we'll be deploying on their HIP3 exchange, um that's already powered by their existing stakers.
Speaker: ah ah And, you know, they get a a portion of of the revenues that Perp's Fund generates goes directly to their stakers. um Some of it straight to Kinetic.
Speaker: um and and yeah so the stakers will uh you know have a direct ownership in everything we do i think that um it's probably a better yeah that actually makes sense to like do it in that way to more easily compete with trade xyz since it has been like winner takes all market in in the way that has developed i mean the I think the the share of markets that they have is not like at 100%, but it's like... Close to it. like the the the The relevant aspect is kind of like at that at that point pretty much. or like I think it was also... a I talked a bit about that with with Omnia when I had him on. like It was a bit...
Speaker: of a debacle when they went for the USCH thing because in in theory it was like a good thing for Hyperliquid which has now thankfully resolved in ah in a more user-friendly way because of the agreement that they have with Circle which is also like about to to kick in and hopefully make the price go up again but then having this USTH thing as a like separate collateral and like all of these different markets like from a user perspective was also kind of annoying. So I think what you're doing actually makes a bit more sense that you try to like fill in these gaps that trade XYZ isn't doing so that there's like different markets that you can utilize and you don't just like split liquidity across different books of the same ticker basically.
Speaker: Yeah, 100%. um We very much view like our scope as completely you know different than theirs. um But yeah, I feel bad for the teams, including Kinetic with with that whole USTH debacle. They all kind of like made a long-term bet.
Speaker: Like the obvious thing to do day one was USCC, right? Because it had the most liquidity, but they were like, oh, you know, this will be more aligned. This will pay off in time. This is like the the out of the money call option on ourselves that was ultimately, you know, rugged for a lack of a better term.
Speaker: I mean, I think the the idea was good in theory, but it's just like from a user perspective, it's it's way too annoying. I mean, if you can like ah split the or make the mechanic in a way that it's like both the same collateral and you can just like use it seamlessly, then it's fine. But it wasn't that way at the beginning. Yeah. And then just kind of made it impossible to really like utilize this market. Yeah, exactly. Why would I swap to USTH?
Speaker: Portfolio margin was too little too late. yeah um the yeah like The future was there, it was just too little too late and um you know the the network effects of of the capital and liquidity had already taken place.
Speaker: there
Speaker: What do you think about um where Hyperliquid is right now in general? Like where where we have been going, where we have how we have been developing this year like HIP3 markets obviously i kind of a saving grace for for all of crypto in that they actually produce volume compared to crypto markets mostly.
Speaker: And um now we also have seen HIP4 as a new new development which hasn't gained that much traction yet but it's like part of the vision for the future. is there but would you maybe expand to those kinds of markets as well?
Speaker: Yeah. um We absolutely plan on doing that, basically replicating um the model to subsequent protocols. um
Speaker: Yeah, hip four has been a little more underwhelming than I expected, but maybe that'll change um when you know the Builder deployed markets really kick in.
Speaker: um And then in general, yeah, a bit conflicted. ah I'm not like i'm kind of neutral. I'm not overly bullish. I'm not overly bearish. la I think
Speaker: we're broadly and in a good spot. um There's just been some interesting... consequences, I would say, of hip three kind of playing out the way it has thus far.
Speaker: um I think people are raising some pretty valid questions on what that means ah for the overall ego. Yeah. um And yeah, kind of you know curious how it'll play out. But I think like where we are right now, I feel like it's pretty fairly valued.
Speaker: um And unless, you know, hip four um starts to um take off in a more meaningful way or, you know, hip five, hip six, whatever is whatever else is to come.
Speaker: um Then, yeah, i don't know, if if just fairly neutral at this time. hmm. It reminds me of the, I think I saw a post from Jordy Alexander recently where he was also like, it's kind of just like fairly fairly priced yeah more more more or less. And I think it's kind of a the spot that we're in. But um I also already forgot about all of these discussions that we had like last week or two weeks ago about like Tradex was he raising.
Speaker: they They will drop their own token and they will leave Hyperliquid and doom and and gloom and it's all over for us. and Do you have any any like views on that? Do you think that would ever happen? Yeah. I don't think they would leave. I don't think they would leave because they don't own the user. 90% of their flow still comes through the Hyperliquid frontend or supporting apps.
Speaker: So I don't think they would leave. I do think them launching a token might not be great for the hype price. um It just feels a bit... um Yeah, it's just it's dilution somewhere way or another.
Speaker: um i don't know, like part of me feels like this was intended. Maybe they maybe ah what ends up happening is it's ah some akin to like a USDC buyout like foundation starts ah absorb some of these third parties where that acted as, you know, some sort of like regulatory pass through.
Speaker: But I mean, also that is kind of their point, no? That there's like, they're like this separate entity, like the the core team is only focusing on the core product. That's all they do. It's only like these 11, 10 people or whatever.
Speaker: and then they leave everything else to the community and everyone else. And so they also have like some distance between them and like maybe potentially more gray area stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, but um you know there's a world where that changes as the regulatory um landscape hopefully, maybe and clears up.
Speaker: ah Then you know you you could ah imagine a world where like they're incentivized um to kind of absorb and you know maximize hype value.
Speaker: Um, but this could be very like long term outcome. Um, i I don't think that they're in a rush. I think. Yeah, that they don't seem, um,
Speaker: Like you said, like I think they're pretty content on just focusing on the core product. I don't think that they're watching a high price every day um I think they ah it's in a pretty good... but Most people are happy, couldn' put it that way.
Speaker: That's true. That is very true. Unless you bought the top, you're probably quite happy with how everything is going. um But as you work a bit more with like things that are relevant to regulation, I wanted to ask your opinion on on regulation because that's also quite a...
Speaker: huge topic or like one of the biggest bear cases I guess right now. um obviously Obviously first of all we have like the Clarity Act that is like probably not not going to pass or going to pass i don't really know I don't know US s politics but apparently it's like almost too late for it to happen before the midterms and then we also have this ah kind of spooky idea in our minds that the Democrats will take over either more now in the midterms or in 2028 and then since crypto is so associated with Trump as a whole that yeah we're all in for a bad time when they're gonna take their revenge for for all of the sins that he committed Hyperliquid is in in Washington and they have like this foundation and they like talk to regulators and all of that stuff um do you think this is like a
Speaker: this this is a valid concern? Do you think this is kind of overblown? How how do you see this developing? Yeah, I think kind of overblown. So I think the biggest unlock is it'll um make it easier for US institutions to touch the exchange.
Speaker: um And, you know, that that also has implications for us. Like I said, if if some of them want to own on these products and own their listings, um that makes, you know, that just that makes that whole process a lot easier.
Speaker: um But generally speaking, i don't think that this is going to cause a huge chunk of value to leave or something. i think like the um that The people who can um use these products are already here. um And ah I think the general framing, i can't remember who was tweeting about it, but just generally framing hyperliquid and on-chain exchanges as quote-unquote gray market is the right way of looking at things um we're not necessarily competing with cme it's it's kind of the the gray market for the rest of the world um who can't go through the you know typical channels to touch those products um so i think the upside is is just a bit different um if that makes sense
Speaker: But it is also a kind of double-edged sword if you view it that way because then when there is more regulatory clarity and for example like perps would get legalized in the US or all of that that' sort sort of stuff happening then you also have more of the competition from the traditional players like CME and like institutions, banks and all of that with Hyperliquid and um it would be nice if it's easier for US people to access it but if they have like better easier options and it's also not that easy to see why they would still use it and the rest of the world market is always only like so large compared to the US market.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, i agree. It is definitely a double-edged sword. don't know, maybe there's this world where there's these like hybrid products where you know they're at one front end uh is kyc one is not but it's the same underlying liquidity i don't know if you could get away with that um without having i've seen i've seen the speculation about this about like these uh permission hrp3 markets on on the testnet and then maybe like maybe this is for like kyc purposes and then you can like somehow make the liquidity be on both at the same time or whatever right that would work but
Speaker: I guess this is all just like speculation that at this point because if the Hyperliquid team didn't say anything about it, no one really knows. So yeah, we'll just have to see how it's going to play out. Yeah, it's kind of like people, um you know, trying to dissect their the cover photo for season ah season two um there airdrop and you guys It's a bit like ah like data mining in video games or whatever, when they're just like going through through all of this stuff to see what what else might be there. We just guess from that. but yeah um
Speaker: My last question is, what do you think about Hyperliquid versus other decentralized exchanges? Because um I think it's pretty clear at this point that TypeLiquid is going to take a lot more market share from centralized exchanges that because they aren't like doing that well and even they only... um most of a lot of their volume now is like TreadFi and stocks and all of that stuff because crypto in general is just kind of not doing that well.
Speaker: And then the European regulation came in with MIECA and whatever and some of the bigger exchanges have been kind of kicked out. and Hyperliquid is growing. do How much space do you think there is for other DEXs? Because exchanges have never really been a winner-takes-all market. They've always been kind of like competitors, except for like BitMEX in the very beginning when the market was a lot smaller. And um do you like view any of those as interesting or do you think perm.fun could also exist on any of the other DEXs in the future?
Speaker: Yeah, it could. It very much would depend on, um you know, what model they decide to go with in terms of market listings.
Speaker: um We've talked to some actually, some approached us. um But yeah, right now we're not um really seriously considering um anything else.
Speaker: um It is the most liquid venue. I think the market probably continues the trend of slow consolidation and they have a big head start on some of these RWA type listings.
Speaker: um And i think a big benefit they have is they have a very ownable asset. So yeah, um that's true I think like it's a pretty underrated ah edge that they have versus others.
Speaker: So yeah, I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. um It'll just be interesting to see how some of these possible, I'm like hesitant to use the word consequence, but nevertheless, of some of these kind of like ah game theory um you know issues that have kind of arose from the way HIP3 evolved and likely HIP5 and so forth. so and I'm curious to see how the team reacts to that, ah you know whether they lower the barrier um of hype state or what they do um for subsequent protocols. My co-founder seems to think that on the one year anniversary, some changes will come.
Speaker: We'll see. um But yeah, like what when when when is that actually? it's is its I want to say it's in September or October. it's and it kind of feels like that.
Speaker: Yeah, maybe October. I can't remember.
Speaker: I think it's in general quite interesting to think about like where we're going to be in a year from now. um Because the the question that I asked before also makes a lot more sense. I feel like if there's more market activity in general, like if there's actually more DEXs that have traction and then there's more like volume and more demand for markets and stuff like that. Because the way it is right now is obviously very
Speaker: boring at least or boring boring to say the least because ah it's summer it's a bear market there's like no real activity in crypto as a whole and um once things pick up more and like more of these developments are like like regulatory developments are clearer market interest is clearer maybe there's some interest that's leaving ai and coming back to crypto and stuff and it's just like yeah more interesting to be in crypto in general that uh all of this will be a more interesting discussion, I think, once there's more c clarity on that.
Speaker: Yes, but that's that's definitely partially true. i think one um positive aspect of all this is just that you know we can more or less support ah markets for wherever the you know the volatility goes.
Speaker: you know whatever the volatility rotation is of the quarter, you know it can most likely be traded on Hyperliquid, which is cool. um And that'll continue to get better.
Speaker: Perks aren't always the best um you know means to ah like create a market around a particular trade. um So again, that is one reason why I'm excited about hip four and so forth.
Speaker: <unk> um because you know it's just ah it's really beneficial towards moving you know in this direction of ah being able to trade absolutely everything and and just go wherever the volatility goes yeah I think that that's it for what i would like to talk about today or what to talk about today so anything else that you want to share
Speaker: um I mean, as I mentioned before, just that, you know, launch is finally right around the corner, um depending on when this goes live. um If we are not live, it'll be ah very, very imminent.
Speaker: um So, yeah, we'll be announcing the first a few markets very soon. hmm. um and if you're someone who is interested in launching a market on HIP3 you can ah apply via perp.fun and yeah that's about it all right thank you very much for coming on thanks for having me
