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Episode 4: Talking Cybersecurity, AI and B Corps / Corporate Trust with Jonathan Liebert of the Better Business Bureau
19 Plays4 months ago
Welcome to BetterWorld Technologyโs In the Chat Room. In The Chat Room is a dynamic interview series where industry leaders, innovators, and experts gather to share their insights on the ever-evolving landscape of technology and business.
Each episode dives into compelling conversations with thought leaders across cybersecurity, compliance, sustainability, and IT management, offering executives and business professionals an inside look at trends, challenges, and actionable strategies that drive success in todayโs digital-first world.
Episode 4 host, Matt Bauer, Co-Founder and Director at BetterWorld Technology, is excited to have In The Chat Room, Jonathan Liebert, who is CEO & Executive Director at the Better Business Bureau of Southern Colorado and is also an adjunct professor at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs.
๐๐ฝ๐ถ๐๐ผ๐ฑ๐ฒ ๐๐ถ๐ด๐ต๐น๐ถ๐ด๐ต๐๐
00:00 Welcome
00:04 The rise of the purpose-driven economy and the growing trust crisis
01:14 Why people are looking for businesses that align with their values
02:55 Is the movement toward social responsibility growing or fading in the AI era?
05:13 How the Better Business Bureau helps consumers find reputable, purpose-driven businesses
10:32 The difference between BBB for Good and B Corp certification
11:59 The hidden cybersecurity risks that most small businesses overlook
16:42 How AI is fueling more sophisticated online scams and fraud schemes
19:20 AI education, fraud prevention, and supporting ethical businesses
20:14 Closing remarks and how to connect with Better World Technology
๐๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ป ๐๐ถ๐ฒ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ฟ๐โ๐ ๐๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐
- Website: https://www.bbb.org/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-liebert-96918112/
๐๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ป ๐บ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ฎ๐ฏ๐ผ๐๐ ๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ธ:
- Visit our website: www.betterworldtechnology.com
- Stay connected by subscribing to our YouTube channel for exclusive content, behind-the-scenes insights, and more. And if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow us on Spotify and tell a colleague.
๐ Keep innovating, keep connecting!
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The Chat Room'
00:00:09
Speaker
better world technologies in the chat room. And the chat room is a dynamic interview series where industry leaders, innovators, and experts gather to share their insights on the ever-evolving landscape of technology and business.
00:00:22
Speaker
Each episode dives into compelling conversations with thought leaders across cybersecurity, compliance, sustainability, and IT management, offering executives and business professionals an inside look at the trends, challenges, and actionable strategies that drive success in today's digital first world.
Guest Introduction: Jonathan Lieber
00:00:41
Speaker
I'm your host, Matt Bauer, co-founder and director of Better World Technology, and we're excited to have in the chat room with us today, Jonathan Lieber, who is CEO and executive director at the Better Business Bureau of Southern Colorado, and is also an adjunct professor at the University of Colorado in Colorado Springs.
00:01:00
Speaker
Welcome, Jonathan. Thanks for having me. All right, well, let's, ah you kind of sit at the nexus of a lot of things we're passionate about and and the conversations we've had have been just great.
Jonathan's Roles and Contributions
00:01:13
Speaker
We're gonna talk about sustainability in business and cybersecurity and just wanted to start though first with a you know a short of your background and maybe kind of skip a stone at all the initiatives that you're involved with or just have been and then we can dive into some topics that I know are near and dear to both of us.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So as you mentioned already, the CEO of the Better Business Bureau, um do a lot of things there around fraud, cybersecurity, trust, etc. um Adjunct professor UCCS and I teach social entrepreneurship. So I'm at this business nexus with social entrepreneurship, business and nonprofits. Past chair of the Colorado on Nonprofit Association.
00:01:56
Speaker
And I'm the current board chair for the Colorado Workforce Development Council. So I'm also doing some things within the workforce space and currently doing some training and education for small businesses on proper generative AI use. So a lot of different things that that I'm working on. Do you sitting pretty sleep? You know, it keeps out of trouble. that's that Let's be honest here. So it keeps me out of trouble.
00:02:22
Speaker
Um, that's great. and And it's very inspiring. And, you know, a lot of your work, as we've discussed, is towards the purpose driven
Exploring the Trust Deficit in Business
00:02:31
Speaker
economy. And, you know, so I guess our first question is, why is why is this important, I guess, in this era of, you know,
00:02:39
Speaker
Trust is down in in terms of business and government. and and can you so Can you speak to this in the state of things you know in the areas of B Corps and your work with the Southern Colorado Impact Group you know maybe is is part of that too, but just kind of asking that that quick question of why is the purpose-driven economy important at this time?
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. and Great question. I think let's let's start with that trust piece. and Just to give everybody and an example of what we're talking about here is that trust is down. We're actually in what we're researchers are calling a trust crisis or a trust deficit. um Prior to COVID, just on average, you would see that from the standpoint of where consumers would be, they would be four out of 10 Americans wouldn't trust what they would hear.
00:03:24
Speaker
So they wouldn't trust what they would hear from a politician, from social media, from media in general, a business. They just wouldn't believe it. And ah now currently kind where we sit is about seven eight out of 10 Americans don't trust what they hear. So that's the majority of Americans. So if we're at 70 to 80% of Americans don't trust things, that's a huge problem from an economic perspective.
00:03:48
Speaker
So people aren't going to spend money when they don't trust businesses. They're not going to do things when leaders tell them to do certain things. And so it's actually a a major problem. And so I think trust, number one is more important than ever we got to think of Trust is a new form of currency.
Importance of a Purpose-Driven Economy
00:04:03
Speaker
I think the second part to that, as it relates to these purpose-driven businesses, people want to do business with organizations that align with their values. And so I think people want to buy from, but they also want to work for these businesses that are not only making money but and are trustworthy, but they're also doing good things for the community.
00:04:21
Speaker
So I think that's a really important piece of this purpose-driven aspect is that typically those businesses are more ah connected in the community. They might be more respected in the community. um Usually they're more trusted as well. And that goes a long, long way. and So people want to buy from a business that's going to do a good job, thus BBB in our accreditation.
00:04:41
Speaker
But it's also more than that. People want to buy from a company that's doing good work and that's giving back to the community. So now they want both. So we've seen this change since COVID and we're trying to kind of keep track of this at BBB and offer some solutions for consumers as well.
00:04:54
Speaker
Well, do you see that the ah the movement, I guess I'll call it for lack of better term, is is it is it waning? Is it growing? um You know, maybe this is you can kind of dovetail that into the work you're doing with Better Business Bureau.
00:05:10
Speaker
in this area and all the other things you're doing, you know, with UCCS and National Institute for Social Impact and the PRISM Awards. I mean, pick pick from that what what you what you want. But, ah you know, these are all things you're involved with. And so, you know, is it is it going like this? is it going like this or just kind of a steady state? What's what's your opinion?
00:05:31
Speaker
So that's another really good question i'll and I'll reference some some data points here.
Trends in Corporate Social Responsibility
00:05:35
Speaker
So what we're seeing in in this in this for this topic is really um corporate trust and corporate social responsibility. So businesses that kind of engage in CSR, trust is down. It's it's's it's kind of been cut in half by 50% in the last couple of years as consumers have seen that businesses aren't doing what they feel has been promised to them.
00:05:57
Speaker
So trust in CSR has gone down. In that same timeframe, the desirability for sustainably made products or products from a company that have you know a higher purpose kind of attached to it has also doubled.
00:06:11
Speaker
So we've seen a decrease in trust, a doubling effect of I still want that. And so I would say that overall, people are still very, very interested in these types of products and services.
00:06:23
Speaker
They don't really trust some of the people that say they're doing it, so they want more information. And then there's this other component that I've seen now too, is that I think based on what I'm hearing in the community, but you have to ask, and then based on the data, people are still interested.
00:06:37
Speaker
But I feel like all the oxygen in the room is being taken up now with the conversation around AI. So everybody's talking about ai They like it. They don't like it. They trust it. They don't trust it. How are you using it? How are you not using it? What does this mean for the future?
00:06:50
Speaker
And in the meantime, we still have to focus on building great cultures and having some other type of North Star beyond simple, just kind of profitability. So it's about purpose and profit still. I think the research backs that up, but ah kind of like you, I'm not hearing about it as much because everybody's talking about AI.
00:07:08
Speaker
So I don't think it's gone away. and And who knows in a year that could change. but But in the research I'm looking at here in last month or so, consumers, younger consumers especially, still want to buy from and work for a company that has a higher purpose.
00:07:23
Speaker
They're looking for it. But I'm just not hearing it as much as I used to, mostly because AI, hopefully it kind of evens out and we talk about both and how to integrate those. But I think it's a great question. I think we need to keep watching this one.
BBB's 'BBB for Good' Program
00:07:35
Speaker
Okay. and And then inside your work, if you can point to, ah you know, your work as a adjunct professor or as head of the Southern Colorado but Better Business Bureau, you know, what are some things you're doing inside of that space or just some examples of the work you're doing in in the area of, you know, purpose-driven businesses and the economy?
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah, no, thank you for that question. i I would say for us, the biggest thing is that during COVID, we had a lot of consumers that came to BBB and and really kind of asked these questions of, I understand this business has an A-plus rating, they're accredited, and that tells me if they'll do a good job.
00:08:16
Speaker
But I want to know which businesses I can trust that say they're doing things that are sustainable, or say that they're doing something that has some type of social impact. I want to know how I know if they're real or not. And so we got a lot of these questions.
00:08:30
Speaker
And so during COVID, we we kind of took advantage of that and used it to do some focus groups. And we developed a program here in Colorado Springs. It's now going throughout the nation. It's going throughout the U.S. and Canada called BBB for Good.
00:08:44
Speaker
And so one of the things that we saw was that, you know, we love the folks at B-Labs are doing great things with their B Corp certification. um You have to be an established business. It takes a long time. it it does take some money.
00:08:56
Speaker
And that is that's perfect for a certain type of business. where we saw some of the things that were difficult specifically for our businesses at BBB that are small businesses or micro businesses, that certification just wasn't attainable for them.
00:09:10
Speaker
So we designed a program called BBB for Good that really allows small businesses, and you can be a nonprofit as well, that you can apply for this. It's of verification through BBB, and it will help them, one, walk them through steps of making sure they're doing things the right way, but two, it's another trust mark that BBB's created.
00:09:30
Speaker
So what's cool about this is this is the first new trust mark we've had in over 25 years. and it's related to the sustainability and and social impact kind of movement. And so what we want to do is give businesses the tools to get better and be more specific around their initiatives.
00:09:46
Speaker
And we also want to get tools in front of the hands of consumers so that when they see our little round trust mark seal, then they know that we've vetted them and that whatever claims they're making about their social or environmental initiatives,
00:09:59
Speaker
They're justified. They're verified. We've checked. So that consumer doesn't have to do that extra work. Or a lot of times people don't know where to go. If somebody says they're doing something good, they don't know how to double check that. So we're trying to kind of take that out of the hands of consumers, have ah us do it. This is what we do. This is our subject matter of expertise.
00:10:15
Speaker
And also promote businesses that are thinking different about capitalism, because that's really kind of what this is. And so we do see this as a nice initiative. We do see this as part of the future of business.
00:10:26
Speaker
um It is changing. And we want to make sure that we're, we're as you know as business evolves, so must the Better Business Bureau. And this is one of those ways that we're trying to capture that through our B2B for Good Initiative. That's huge. And I can give you sort of real world backing there. You know, we were, Better World was part of the the first group of companies to be certified as B Corps back in 2007. And, you know, i'd say that that ah the initial certification, you know, paperwork it took about a month. And now I think it's up to, you know, we just redid our certification. And
00:11:00
Speaker
It's up to probably eight or nine months now. And so, you know, it's a much, like you said, you know, a lot of folks don't have that kind of resource. So you're really filling a gap with that. And that's, that's really great. The other thing is now there's thousands of, of B Corps out there. You know, we, yeah I think there was 15 in the first class, ah you know, when we, when we started. and so You know, it's becoming, you're it's you know, you pick up a ah box of cereal, you look at a billboard, you know, it's and especially where we are here in Colorado. There's a lot of B Corps and a lot of, you know, awareness around that. And it's just it's not uncommon, I guess, to pick up a package and see that on the back of the label. It's it's great to.
00:11:43
Speaker
Great to see that
Cybersecurity and AI's Role
00:11:44
Speaker
evolution. um But ah you know if we could take a i think what it will seem a fairly hard right turn here into a different topic, but you know it's all related because obviously these things are connected.
00:11:57
Speaker
um But if we could shift to cybersecurity and awareness, and I think drafting off what you were saying with AI, that's part of the equation now. um And I know you're doing a ton of work in this area.
00:12:09
Speaker
And ah you know so if you could just, You know, skip a stone there and then we can dive ah into a couple of the bits, you know, what you're doing with the Better Business Bureau and other initiatives you're part of Yeah, we're doing with several things in there. i mean, obviously, as the Better Business Bureau, we're also seen as like a consumer protection agency.
00:12:27
Speaker
And so we have a lot of things that we do around education and awareness for a business as well as for consumers. So on the business side of the house, you know, this is really plugged into our eight standards of trust, i.e. the standard of safeguard, you know, um privacy and really making sure that as you're taking on information from consumers that you're protecting their data.
00:12:50
Speaker
and so thats that's kind of embedded in the very nature of what B2B stands for and what it means to be a good business. So i one, you're not selling it. Two, you're making sure that people can get to it. And there's a lot of education we have to do. I mean, I still talk to small businesses and small businesses will say, well, you know, Jonathan, I don't have any money.
00:13:08
Speaker
They're welcome to my bank account. There's nothing in there. And I don't have the things that they want. And I'll say, excuse me, they have a lot of things that you want. And they'll say, what are you talking about? Like, do you take credit card information from your customers? Well, yeah.
00:13:23
Speaker
Well, that's valuable information. And cyber criminals, they want that. And then I tell them that you know about 70% of these cyber attacks are with small businesses because they don't have the proper you know channels, are not using the right kind of technology, they don't have policies, and they're very surprised and kind of shocked. So they usually think that it just means I'm gonna go and have my bank account drained.
00:13:44
Speaker
That could happen too, but it really has to do with, you know, you gotta safeguard your data, you gotta safeguard the the data of your customers because you you have a breach one That's bad. It'll put you out of business. um But two, you're going to have a lot of upset people coming after you because you didn't you didn't protect the credit card information or something like that. um So we're having conversations and education about that. We're also telling consumers about the different ways and the different scams that are out there.
00:14:08
Speaker
um We have a ah recent partnership that we formed in Southern Colorado with a lot of financial institutions around fraud. Fraud is at an all-time high in these banking institutions. And it's just some of the stories that I've heard and the things that I'm learning will just kind of blow you away.
00:14:23
Speaker
but fraud is at an all time high. So we're trying to kind of organize here in our community. And if this works well, I want to just kind of give it away to other BBBs and other organizations to kind of replicate this in their communities.
00:14:36
Speaker
But we're meeting quarterly or more depending on the issues that are out there so that one, we can analyze what's happening in your neck of the woods. Two, how do we educate people on this? And three, how do we pull our resources together to get the word out? So if it's just Jonathan saying it,
00:14:52
Speaker
That's great. But if I can have some large banking institutions that are saying the same thing and we're all saying the the same thing together and we're getting in front of the camera or in front of social media or whatever and educating consumers on this, that's going to have a larger impact because I think a lot of consumers just don't understand how bad fraud is and how they're getting ripped off. And so banks are seeing something very different.
00:15:15
Speaker
It's usually romance scams where people will drain their entire bank account, 30, 40, million dollars worth of of money just gone. um If you're talking about online scams, that's something very different. So there's very sophisticated and specific ways people are doing this.
00:15:32
Speaker
And it's only going to get worse because of AI, because of the social engineering that already goes into this and now having AI to help even more or to mimic your voice or mimic a video where it can say and do anything that you want it to to get money from people.
00:15:48
Speaker
there's this This stuff's going to get worse before it gets better, if it gets better. And quite honestly, we've got a lot of work to do. And so by no means do I have all the answers, nor am I doing all the work. But we're trying to do a lot right now, and we are really kind of gearing up for some pretty spooky stuff coming around, fraud and scams with JNR AI.
00:16:08
Speaker
Yeah. what What is it now? the um It would be the fourth or fifth largest country in the world. You know, the the total of how much money is scammed every year from companies and individuals ah in terms of GDP. So, you know, definitely we're, you know, we as the public and and business and government are behind, ah you know, where the threat actors have have gotten out of ahead of this with technology is really helping them too.
00:16:39
Speaker
um Looking forward then, what what are your you know your crystal ball for 2025? What are you going to be? What's your focus? I mean, continuing some of these initiatives and growing them, obviously. Do you have anything new on the horizon or not that you need anything else to do?
00:16:56
Speaker
yeah Yeah, that that puts me in a pretty full plate, but I mean, I really would say um we're trying to do a lot more around one, educating businesses and small businesses on generative
Future Initiatives and Collaborations
00:17:08
Speaker
AI.
00:17:08
Speaker
Two, I'm working with the state of Colorado and also with Google. I'm trying to pull together like a it would be like an upskilling certificate. i' know what it'll be called eventually, but from a state perspective at the workforce center level, how can it employers and with their employees get this upskilling certificate around generative AI that they can put on their resume and get trained and educated?
00:17:31
Speaker
um So we're working on something like that that'll be helpful i'm also working with google what i'd like to do is is put into the hands of every accredited business. It's free AI training that's online. You're welcome to come down to the class that I'm teaching on a monthly basis, but that's not everybody's thing. or They may not have the time. and so um Google knows a lot more than I do about this. And so to get some free education from Google would be awesome. So we're working on that. So I think education around AI, the ethics of the pros and cons, how there's a whole lot of stuff there.
00:18:02
Speaker
But we're also really focusing on making sure that people are, fraud's going to be worse. So we're we're trying to really kind of double down on those initiatives and really making sure that we're keeping people safe and up to speed on the new types of um fraud-related incidents that are going on, the scams that are going on.
00:18:18
Speaker
And then for for good news, it's buy from a purpose-driven business. Here's why they're important. Here's why they're doing really good things. Here's how they're positively impacting your community.
00:18:29
Speaker
And so that BB for Good initiative is going to be another focal point for us in this next year. ah really making sure that we're providing education and awareness on what that is and why it's important and also adding more businesses to that list.
00:18:41
Speaker
So again, it's another class that we offer every single month at Better Business Bureau is what it is how can you do it? Here's the standards of trust that we have around this, which people can look at online on the www.vvforgood.org.
00:18:53
Speaker
But really making sure that we're we're we're keeping track of how business is evolving and changing. I've never seen it move this fast since I've been a VVV CEO. There's just so many things that are out there. and And that was before AI started.
00:19:06
Speaker
Now with AI, you throw that into the mix and we're moving at like warp speed here. And people are going to get behind really fast if they're not paying attention to this stuff. and And again, cyber criminals are out there.
00:19:18
Speaker
They're going to steal your information. You got to make sure you're paying attention to cybersecurity items. I'm telling small business owners, make sure you have cybersecurity insurance. It's not a question of of if, but when you're going to get hit.
00:19:30
Speaker
So you got to be prepared. so if you don't have insurance and you get hit, that could knock a small business out. So people got to be smart. They got to be educated, really making sure I'm doing the best I can and then plugging them into good resources like Better World Technology and others out there.
00:19:43
Speaker
to make sure that they're getting and staying up to date on all of this stuff that's happening right now it's really important that people pay attention to this.
Closing Remarks and Gratitude
00:19:51
Speaker
Excellent. Really well said. Thank you, Jonathan. you know, what a great conversation. and And there's so many points of of intersection between the work we're doing. and And so we we look forward to collaborating together in 2025 and beyond. And appreciate you being being in the chat room with us today.
00:20:12
Speaker
Yeah, I agree as well. Thanks for the work you're doing. And I appreciate you having me. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you for watching in the chat room with Better World Technology and to dive deeper into our episodes and learn more about our work, visit betterworldtechnology.com.
00:20:28
Speaker
Stay connected by subscribing to our YouTube channel for exclusive content, behind the scenes insights and more. And if you've enjoyed the episode, be sure to follow us on Spotify and tell Kali, keep innovating, keep connecting.
00:20:41
Speaker
We'll see you next time. Take care.