Transcript
Speaker: Hey guys, welcome to the Peak Pursuits podcast. I'm Jess Jason, logging in from Canberra, and today i am joined by ah familiar face and co-host James Sieber. How are you going?
Speaker: Going well. um Actually running. So I can come on here and talk about running and not just me being sad about the fact that running sucks. So this is a good start to the podcast. Oh yeah, I'm excited to talk about that Sounds good.
Speaker: um And today we're pretty lucky because we're joined by a new guest that we haven't had on before. um But he definitely has been a rising star um in the trial scene and has had some amazing results over the short um trail distances. um So the one and only Patrick Clark, how are you going? Good, good. Thanks for having me, guys. It's good to good to be here. And you're based in Canberra, aren't you?
Speaker: ah Just outside of Canberra, so I'm Braidwood, but I spend a lot of time in Canberra, so yeah. Yeah. To do a bit of back and forth, but I've got some, I'm lucky to have some really good trails around me here in Braidwood, so.
Speaker: Yeah, beautiful. And you're still at school? Yeah, I'm in year 12, so I've only got like couple of weeks to go, so. Wow, that's exciting. Looking forward to finishing it off, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. You've exam period coming up? Yeah. um It's pretty chill in the ACT though. It's not quite as bad as the HSC. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker: okay yeah Should be fun. Just a quick trip down to Brighton the weekend then, mid end of year 12? Yeah. No, um I had – it was actually – was a pretty hectic week ah leading up. There was a few things.
Speaker: few things we had to get in and submitted before I headed down. But um yeah yeah, it was good. Good to get get down for the four peaks. Yeah. Yeah. So um for the listeners, Patrick Clark has just come off the weekend at four peaks where he raced um all of the four races. So ah finished second on the overall standings just behind our very own Vlad Ixl.
Speaker: um And we'll get into those results a bit later, but yeah, um Patrick has also had a lot of other really awesome results this year. um He just placed first in the 23K roller coaster a couple of weeks ago, um which is awesome, super speedy.
Speaker: um And he is gearing up for the under-23 race um over in China for Asia Pacific Champs, which is in... um about three and a half weeks so um do you want to run us through how the prep's been pat like how has has your training been um give us yeah a quick update on how you're preparing for asia pacific champs Yeah, for sure. um It's been pretty good. Like I kind of, I've got, ah I've got Blake Hose as my coach, so I don't have to do a lot of thinking about my training, which is nice. But um yeah, we kind of, I told Blake a little while ago that I ah kind of, wanted to do rollercoaster um and four picks all four days. So we kind of just fleshed out a program around that and
Speaker: which has gone really well. Like I don't do anything too radical. I just, I got, I do like a a faster, usually flatter session on the Tuesday.
Speaker: um Another one on the Friday, it might be hills, a solid long run on the Sunday and the rest of it's just easy jogging. So I don't do too much running, just um try to, yeah, try to not,
Speaker: beat my body up too much when I'm young, I think is the idea. but yeah, Blake's really good with that. And it's, yeah, it's all been really, it's been quite smooth. i haven't I haven't had any problems with sickness or injury in the past little while. So it's it's been really good. That's awesome.
Speaker: And what's your sort of background into trail running? Like, have you come from any other sport? Yeah, so when I was younger, i was really into the soccer. So I played.
Speaker: played ah probably until was about 13 or 14 and I got to a pretty high level playing in Canberra. But um I've always been into the running. ah Like I reckon I started...
Speaker: My dad was like, we had a park run start in Braidwood probably back in 2019. And he was like, oh, we should go and do it. And I was like, all right. um So we went and did that.
Speaker: And I just loved it. Like I think I ran, the first one I did, i would have been about 10 and I did maybe 21 minutes or so there. And yeah, just enjoyed going back like every week and running a little bit quicker.
Speaker: um Enjoy, enjoy the the suffering for some reason. I don't know, I've just still was always liked, yeah, like the, the um yeah, the physical side of it where you gotta push pretty hard to beat your time. But um yeah, like ah other than that,
Speaker: ah ah really, I started doing a lot of running during the COVID lockdown just because um i was at school, i was in year six at the time and pretty much like school was couple of hours work really in the morning, like we logged on for a meeting and and that was that. So then I'd have like all day and there was there was just nothing going on. So yeah,
Speaker: um I'd end up getting out a couple of times a day in that period for a little while and just yeah really really started to enjoy it. um and yeah From there, just just got a coach after that. ah ah kind of I wasn't really doing any structured training and I ah did get injured when I was younger.
Speaker: so i realized that I probably needed to to take things a bit more seriously if I wanted to to get anywhere. So, yeah, I've been lucky to work with a couple of really good coaches in Canberra um before Blake. And, yeah, just always loved the trails as well. Like I spent a bit of time on the roads and the track when I was probably a bit younger, but recently just where I am, we've got so much access to it. And, I mean, I'm sure you know, like Canberra's so good for it.
Speaker: Just really really enjoy the really enjoy the trail over the road. I find the road quite monotonous. so Did you that's why um do much of like the school sports like cross country or track?
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. yeah um I've done that for yeah like as long as I've been at both primary school and high school. I won't have it anymore in a few weeks. yeah That's a bit a shame. but but yeah It was more races today.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true. um And now I want to move on to like just touching on a few of your race results this year because there's been some epic battles.
Speaker: um And if we go all the way back to Donna Double, think I think a lot of the listeners will remember we um had a really awesome post-race interview with you and Nath because you guys had a bit of a ding-dong battle in that race. So do you want to briefly like refresh our memories on how that race went and what the battle was like and um what you got out of it? Yeah. Oh, it was a really good one. I'd earmarked that event like I saw it um
Speaker: a little bit earlier and what they had on the line. So I was definitely keen to make the trip down just looking at what the course was like. But, um yeah, like, Nath was so strong the whole way. Like, I'd originally thought that I'd probably have a bit more than him on the climb. So i went in.
Speaker: uh and climb pretty hard once you've done that you get that first little flat bit along the river and then you're pretty much straight into a it's almost a vk i'm pretty sure you get a thousand meters vertical in about 5.4 k um yeah sorry which yeah i mean i'm i would consider myself stronger in the the vertical side of things compared to all other aspects of trial running. So I thought I could probably, if there was anywhere, i was going to be able to get a bit of time over Nathan to be on that climb. So I got out very hard, probably a bit too hard.
Speaker: I was pretty cooked by, by the top. And I probably only had 20 seconds on Nathan, um, by the summit. He was just, I couldn't get rid of him. He was super strong.
Speaker: Um, just persisted in there. And at that point I was like, Oh, it's going to be tough now because i knew how good he was all as an all rounder, but especially like going downhill, like he's got that track speed. I was like, Oh, we're probably, probably not, not a good chance now, but, um, i was able uh, tuck in behind him on the descent.
Speaker: Um, And he didn't he didn't run as quick as I thought, so i was able to just stay hot on his heels right down to the river there. um And then he pretty much, as soon as we hit that flat section along the river, um he just, like, shot off. And I went, like, completely lactic almost instantly and I could not keep up with him. So it was a bit unfortunate because I felt, yeah, like,
Speaker: We were probably, i was actually, was ahead of him. There's that little bump as he come over back onto Martyr Road there um and he dropped right back there. And I was like, oh, maybe maybe we're on here. But nah, he stayed stayed with me and just burnt me on the final straight, which he's a very strong guy, so. yeah yeah probably i think Yeah, I think this is where you really, like this race is where you really started to put your name up in like the senior ranks because we'd always seen you as like a really promising junior, but this is where you really like solidified that you had a talent that was that was competitive in like the sort of
Speaker: like seeing yeah senior age groups. So that was awesome. And then you rolled into ah Buffalo 20K, UTA 22 and 17 and then Rollercoaster 23. So which of the results this year do you think was your strongest um and the race that you were the most proud of? Yeah, look, I reckon it would be a toss-up between Donut and Rollercoaster.
Speaker: um Rollercoaster came together really well on the day. um I hadn't expected to run as well as I did there. it's um I wasn't really sure. I'd never run in the Dandenongs before, so I didn't really know what to expect, but I really, really liked the course. It was, yeah, super fun. like it it It's really well-named. It is just... Yeah.
Speaker: you know, those off and downs. um But, yeah, it felt super good that day. um And it is a thing of that. Like I find I've never been able to have a good race in the Blue Mountains. I've got a bit of ah a running joke with some of my mates that I've got to curse. Like I don't, I've never raced well there. um I'm not sure why that is. Like if it's just I've been unlucky or I think it's also the stairs. I'm not, I don't have the, yeah I should do a bit more conditioning. But,
Speaker: Yeah, like um there seems to be definitely if the race is front loaded with climbing like it is in Buffalo, Donna and not so much roller coaster, but there is that little that little climb at the start, um I seem to get on much better than when you do have to do it either in the back half or there's not as much. So, yeah. yeah So if if you feel like stairs are a bit of a weakness, how how are you approaching that challenge ahead of Asia Pacific chance? Because I think there's going to be fair bit of stairs in that race.
Speaker: Yeah, i I won't lie. i wasn't i wasn't too happy when I saw the courses full of stairs. I was like, oh, no. But um look, i've been doing a bit. We've got a good climb. I'm sure you know Tennant out the back of Canberra, which is really good for that kind of thing.
Speaker: um So I've been trying to get out there as much as I can. ah It's maybe not quite the same as is what it looks like over in China with with it being carved into the rock. But yeah,
Speaker: I think either way you get that kind of stimulus and I'm just, um yeah yeah, I've been feeling a lot better. Like I did Hounslow last year as well and I was a lot, I was fourth this year and I took about seven minutes off my time from last year. So yeah i think I think I'm getting better. I'm not sure i'm not sure how I'll go, but yeah, definitely definitely trying to work on it for sure. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker: um And um so with, like, the race in Asia-Pacific Champs, I think we recently found out that the distance was a bit longer than we originally thought.
Speaker: um So how have you tackled that news? in your Like, has it changed your training in the last few weeks? Yeah, well, yeah. I did like initially on the website I looked and it was saying it was going to be about 12k and 500 meters vertical and was like that's so short like that's that's a roadrunner's course um yeah which I also wasn't too happy about so it was yeah It was welcome news when I saw that it was up to about 20 and almost 1,000 now, I'm pretty sure. Look, it hasn't changed too much. Like, Blake's pretty consistent in his programming. Like, I ah don't i don't have a lot of...
Speaker: fluctuation in what I do. there's It's pretty standard. And I already like training for things like roller coaster and four peaks. Like they're around that same kind of distance. So I haven't changed it a lot, to be honest. um Yeah, just keep it more or less the same. But I was definitely – Before we had that news, I was thinking, oh i've got to I've got to get back on the on the track. Like, I'm going to need to put a bit of speed back in my legs if I want to keep up with with those guys on that kind of course. Like, that was so short.
Speaker: Yeah. So was four peaks always in the plan or was that something you added in after rollercoaster? Yeah, i um it was always there. i i missed out last year. I was i was going to come down, but there was a few logistical issues. I couldn't make it in the end, so I, like,
Speaker: I was probably from like this time last year, was like, I've got to come do four picks this year. So, yeah, it was, i was like, I told Black um I want to do four picks. I want to do all four days. It's non-negotiable. So, yeah. yeah And what was it about four picks that um got you excited?
Speaker: Oh, just um I love like running uphill. I love, ah love ah yeah, like VKs, anything like that. it's um It's my favourite part trail running. So ah it's, 4Pex is probably the iron only, it's well, it is the only uphill, dedicated uphill race we've got left in Australia. so So it's really special, I think, to have something like that. So was super keen to have a hit out there.
Speaker: Yeah. And um did you and Blake have a strategy going into Four Peaks, like with the mindset of wanting to win the overall?
Speaker: um Did you sort of take Buffalo, like the first race easy or what was your plan? ah we did't We didn't have much of a plan. I think he was he was happy for me to just go out there and and see how I felt and just run to feel, which is how we normally do things. But, um yeah, he'd message me each day afterwards going on. was a pretty good time. So I was like, okay. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, like I didn't get much instructions or anything from him. So just um was it I was pretty, yeah, I was pretty right with Vlad was so, he was so smart. Like there was a couple of times the,
Speaker: the some of the orienteering guys would get out pretty hard. And, like, i'm when I'm in a race, I think I can maybe win. I don't like having anyone in front of me at any time. So I, like, would have been right behind them.
Speaker: um But I was like, oh, I've just got to beat Vlad, so I'm going to stay with Vlad. And, like, sure enough, he just he gets it right every time. Like, he just would wind it up slowly and we'd, we'd yeah, be racing for the finish at the top.
Speaker: Yeah, awesome. So run us through, yeah, like each of your races at Four Peaks. um Yeah, how did you feel each day? What did you shift? Like did you change your tactics from day to day given how the race went the day before? yeah Run us through the four days.
Speaker: Yeah. um First day, yeah. I didn't roll into Bright until about midnight on Friday. had to, there was a few group members not quite pulling their weight in the chemistry presentation back at school. So I had to sort them out before I came up. So it was, it was, got in pretty late. I wasn't, I felt pretty average on Buffalo, which wasn't too surprising.
Speaker: First half was okay. Like, I led the first half um and then Ben Butler came out of nowhere and just, it was like he'd been shot out of a cannon. He just like, once we hit that um technical rocky section, he just, it was gone. Like I tried to go with him and,
Speaker: I think that made it even worse. I was battling from then on and Vlad and Kerners went past me. So that wasn't ideal. sorry ah But the next day on Feathertop felt a lot better.
Speaker: um Yeah. Yeah, we got out we got out pretty easy. I thought i felt really good um on Feathertop. So, yeah, it was about 12K from memory. um And, yeah, like just sat in behind Vlad for the first probably half. Yeah.
Speaker: There's a lot of ah the early starters on the trail we had to, we were pushing past a lot of people, which probably wasn't ideal, kind of breaking the rhythm a bit. But I felt like me and him, we kind of, we were so evenly matched. Like we were at a really good kind of intensity where I felt like we were sitting just kind of below threshold. So it was it was comfortable, but we were still working hard and still moving at a good clip.
Speaker: um And yeah, got up got up the top ah there. he put He put in a really hard surge just um just as he come to the the final climb.
Speaker: And he got he got he got away from and I thought, oh, he he has a lot he's had a lot left in the tank. He's he's gone here. But I think he burned his bickies a bit early because once we got over the top, there's a little bit of flat running. Yeah.
Speaker: And i was so I was able to get around him in a bit of a sprint finish. So I think I got him by three seconds that day. um Hotham was pretty similar in how to how it played out.
Speaker: um Again, i was I was in Vlad's slipstream for quite a while in that race. ah there It is a little bit steeper than Feather Top. But, yeah, we...
Speaker: We climbed, we climbed pretty hard again. And then more or less the same thing happened. There's one there's one steep climb before you reach a little, probably 1K downhill section on the Gotham climb.
Speaker: um and he went really hard again on that final climb um and put probably 20 seconds on me. um But he so he started coming back a little bit once we got to that flat section, and i was, yeah, I just ah ran pretty hard in that final K trying trying to get around him. I'd talked Ian Best before about about some strategies for that that race particularly, and he was like,
Speaker: You want to you want to stay stay comfortable until until you get to that final downhill section and then just give it all you've got. um And that worked really well. So, yeah, I think I got i got blood by maybe 15 seconds that day, um which is good.
Speaker: um And then the last day on Mystic didn't didn't really go how i I'd hoped. um I got out. didn't get out too hard but I had a really good climb i think I got about a minute on Vlad on the climb and then as I was coming down I I wasn't too focused and I took a wrong turn started heading back towards Mystic um which which was a bit of an unfortunate end to the the four days of racing but um It was all good. So, yeah, I should i should probably put the the GPX on my watch from now on, I guess. It's learnt the hard way, I think.
Speaker: Yeah. Was that the first race you'd bit you gotten lost in? Yeah, I've never i've never run off course before. And I tell you what, it's it's such a bad feeling when you realise you've gone off course. oh Especially after three days.
Speaker: Terrible feeling. Don't like that. ah It just takes one for you to go, no, I'm definitely downloading the GPX next time. Yeah, I don't think I'll do another race without a GPX now.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely in Asia Pacific Champs because last or two years ago, that happened to me. So... Yeah. Keep that in mind. um But, yeah, so epic four days because you ended up second overall with Vlad just coming out on top.
Speaker: um But I wanted to know, like, in between each of those races, did you have any, like, recovery strategies that you like to use to make sure the legs were feeling as fresh as possible the next day? ah a time I don't have um anything revolutionary, wouldn't say. I just try eat as much as I can, not not do anything else physical and, um yeah, rest, like drink caps of heaps of water.
Speaker: But, yeah, take take it easy. That's that's the main thing. um I found that it wasn't too bad trying to pull up from each day, especially the first three, just because when yeahre when you're running uphill, you've got to,
Speaker: the neuromuscular fatigue you get is a lot less than when you do like a classic downhill course. Like running downhill beats you up a lot more than running uphill does. So I think i think it's um it's good that they do it that way at Four Peaks having Mystic at the end because I'm definitely feeling it today.
Speaker: And um as part of your training, do you do much gym work or not really? I do nothing at all. So I should really, um i've been, I have like, I was talking to James on the weekend and he was saying how the the young runners tend to neglect the gym and the feeling. And I'd agree with that. i need to I need to improve both of those because I'm terrible at it. But yeah, I should get in the gym because I know like it's been proven to help you so much. So,
Speaker: Maybe when I do that, I'll be even better. But, yeah. Yes, a scary thought if we're just seeing the ah like version one of Pat Clark. yeah which Well, um yeah, I'm not sure how much it would. Do you reckon it would help me a lot if I was to?
Speaker: I would need to ah need to talk to someone who knows. Like, I don't – I would just – I have no idea. I've never done anything in the gym. So would need to. need to have some advice on that front. I say like i think there's enough evidence out there. the Ironically, the the yeah evidence around the injury prevention side is like very limited and lacking, but I think anecdotally, anybody that's like had issues in the past that does strength, that targets those issues, they just feel a lot more robust.
Speaker: And when we were talking on Saturday night, it's like no one does the thing until it becomes an issue, causes a problem, and then you have to do start doing the thing. And i think that's where where it comes from, of like, if you can create create a more robust frame that can handle more load, improves your running economy, improves your efficiency, improves power like it can address weaknesses that you might struggle to get on the running side because you're a limited in time location volume whatever it is i think that's where it can really help and work the example that comes to mind recently is ben demon talking about including strength between utmb 25 and 26 and how
Speaker: visually you look at him and he even commented on this is like his form just broke down so much less under that level of fatigue and so posturally you just become more resilient as well and so you can be more efficient when you're running with high power outputs there's like all these things that come from it um that I like it's a hard one to put on like if you start doing strength you're not going to say that you're going to suddenly get 5% 10% better or something like that but if anything it can help you stay a bit more consistent and that would cause that 5% 10% better over a number of years if that was like the only benefit but there are obviously more benefits and as you've said before like if there's the entire like neuromuscular side of it as well like if you can become more efficient and firing up and using your muscles and there's less fatigue there there's more resiliency again
Speaker: it's yeah I think it's pretty beneficial, but then I have an entire business based on running and strength coaching, so i'm I'm going to say that. Maybe I might need to hit you up, I reckon, for some some strength plans maybe.
Speaker: um Yeah, could probably use it, I think. Even like, yeah, I mean, uphill running is all about all about generating power. So, I mean, maybe maybe i maybe I'm a 30-minute VK guy and I just don't know it.
Speaker: Yeah. That way better watch out. yeah um Cool. And um I guess the only other question around your training I had was um what do your typical sessions look like? So for the next couple of weeks leading into Asia Pacific Champs, you said you're doing Tuesday, Friday.
Speaker: Like what does a typical speed session look like and then what does your Friday session look like? Yeah, um ah there's like there's a few sessions that are like classic Black O's sessions that I reckon anyone who's been coached by Black would have done. And I get a lot of those. It's like like just threshold, like three by eight minutes at threshold. that' would be That'd be a standard kind of Tuesday session. um And I probably would do that.
Speaker: ah Maybe 320s on the flat. um i'm not I'm not fast and that's something else I need to improve going forward, I think, is my my mechanical efficiency on the on the flat. um Sorry, Pat. another one Interrupt me for one second. When we were having dinner, you were saying that you thought you might struggle to break 16 minutes in a 5K and you're talking about doing 1640 pace for threshold. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, well, I reckon, i still reckon, yeah. Like, I mean, maybe I'm a bit solid in that. Everyone's doing like 325s, 330s. But, um and I probably run my threshold a bit too quick.
Speaker: But, yeah um yeah, I do need to get quicker. That's one thing we've identified. um And I've been feeling a lot better lately. So maybe maybe if I did do a 5K time trial now, I'd... I'd go closer to 15 minutes. thought i was good i quickly looked up your local park run and I assumed you'd have this the course record, but you don't.
Speaker: and No. michael but like Unofficial course record. ah Michael Daly's 1540. It looks like it's yeah ah up there to be taken. Yeah, maybe i I need to get out there. Although <unk>s um it's a bit of a cow paddock that the Braidwood Park run. Like ah it goes around the showground and they have like horse events there every second weekend. So it's ripped to shreds. So it might it might not be the spot to do it. But yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. That's that's um that's one one thing I'm trying to work on. But also, other than that, we'd be doing – we do a lot of hills. Another good one that he likes to put on is is an up-down session, which I think is really good. So we might do – you might find like a five-minute hill and you might do – five five by five five minutes up and then you just pretty much have 60 seconds at the top turn around and bomb it back down as fast as you can um and you just repeat that five times um and I think something like that's super beneficial because by the end you're pretty you're getting a really good stimulus in your legs for what it feels like at the end of a of a race how long do you feel like it takes you to recover from a session like that
Speaker: Oh, it's a good question. um It obviously depends how hard you go. Like I've been noticing like just getting a bit more invested in the science side of it lately. Like if I can hold back a bit, it's all about like that acidosis that happens in your in your legs. Like,
Speaker: I find that something like that I'll get doms as well. But if I can hold back just a little bit, especially on the climb and not have as much acid ah build up, I'll be heaps better off the next day. Like if I run that as hard as I can, the next day I'll be i'll be pretty beat up and I'll be like I'll be able to jog, but I wouldn't be able to reproduce a session like that the next day.
Speaker: Yeah. But you feel like if you were to do ah an uphill session where you were doing five minutes equally as high with a jog down, do you feel like it's like an an extra day you take to recover? Is it like, yeah, or you or you don't feel too I'd say, yeah, I mean, probably i have a few days between each session and I do notice it, like I'd say at least at least a day. I need at least a day. do and do get do get better now for maybe a little bit quicker to recover because I'm younger. i mean, a lot of people say that. i don't know if it's actually true, but, um yeah.
Speaker: just Just believe that it is. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. um ah still I still get fatigue. I'm not superhuman or anything. A lot of people talk about it like, oh, you're young so you just recover, like,
Speaker: like Like it's magic, but, yeah, i don't know. I don't think it's true. I don't know. Wait till you're 30 and you're rolling out of bed with sore knees. Maybe, married yeah Yeah, well, I haven't have an experienced it yet, so I've got nothing to compare to.
Speaker: Yeah, when you get to 30 and you have to go walk the dog for half an hour before you can run to wake your body up, that's that's the good a good feeling. Yeah. And I think is it was Marius Backen that said sort of under 25, you basically, like male under 25, you think basically can't overtrain.
Speaker: um which I think his point being like the body is just very robust your hormones are very pro growth at that age and then for a book for a boy a man um but I wouldn't try and test that theory too far no don't I don't ah don't think like let that fly so no no random hundred K's just thrown into yeah sadly not When you were doing four peaks, Pat, did you notice that there was a particular area where, especially compared to flat to Vlad, where you were stronger on the climbs, like the steeper, more runnable, bit more technical, more smooth, anything that you noticed you didn't previously know? um
Speaker: It really surprised me how strong he was on the climbs because I would have – Going in, I would have expected to be stronger on the climb and something like those flatter sections, like have him run away from me there, um just because I know he has been pretty quick in the past. But he was really, like, really strong and across the board. um I mean, even, you know, you've got some really steep 25% climbing on on Hotham um and he was running away from me there.
Speaker: ah So, yeah, like i'd i'd I'd expected him to be um stronger than he was on the uphills.
Speaker: No, stronger than he was on the on the downhills but weaker than he was on the uphills. And it was the other way around. Yeah. um yeah, it was just it was surprising.
Speaker: um But yeah, it's just so strong overall. Like, yeah, I wouldn't have run as quick as I did without him. That's for sure. It's definitely the awesome thing about that level of competition, helping you realize what you've got.
Speaker: in you and like obviously we'll get to it in the results but you guys both broke the course record on day two which as you said you probably wouldn't have done because it was by a matter of like 10 20 seconds or so if you hadn't had each other pushing yourselves up there yeah absolutely not like he was just motoring the whole way yeah so cool pretty cool um signs ahead of asia pacific chance too good confidence boost Yeah, no, um I'm not sure how the stats would go, but I'm feeling pretty good. Like, ah probably probably the fittest I've ever been right now. So, yeah, look look forward to rolling into it.
Speaker: as so but That was one question I had when you guys talking about four peaks. I'm assuming obviously you've looked at the the profile for the course and how it's essentially an an undulating, runnable start, big climb, bit of running, big climb, and then bar like one bump, it looks like it could be very fast to finish and potentially could be very nice terrain underfoot, especially for the final, I don't know, what, 5K or so.
Speaker: ah you Have you and Blake discussed anything about how you're trained for the the fact that you're going to have to get moving after having two quite significant, most likely stair downhills in the course? um We haven't spoken specifically about the course just yet, but a big focus like lately, probably the past six to 12 months has just been speed and and having a lot of speed.
Speaker: trying to be stronger in the in the back half when you might be feeling a bit bit fatigued. So um i will speak with him about a strategy for it specifically. But, yeah, like a lot of a lot of the stuff we've been doing lately has been aimed towards building that strength to have a bit more go in the back half of the race. Yeah, and I think we're all pretty excited to see how you're going to go over there. Absolutely no pressure, of course, but also do well. it'd be fun to watch. Definitely, it's going to be awesome. It's such a, yeah, like two years ago in the inaugural event, it was really cool to see um how the Aussies did and especially in the under 23, like we were really strong. So it's super exciting. Yeah. can
Speaker: Yeah, I think, um not sure, not sure. There's ah some Chinese runners in there with some very, very high it interest scores. so i Like incredibly high. So I'm not sure if those are a true reflection of what they're capable of. But ah yeah, I look forward to to testing that out.
Speaker: I did see you had a few cheeky comments about the interest scores of the Chinese athletes. So yeah, well, i't see yeah. one and say yeah yeah yeah it quitemash me if you If you're not a fan of having people in front of you is the approach for age specifics, just go and see what happens. Yeah, well, this is something I should talk to Blake about because, i mean, on the weekend was probably the first time I've actually raced sensibly because i knew I just had to beat Vlad. And Vlad is a very experienced racer, so he would he would approach the races very easily.
Speaker: in a very um organized manner and wouldn't go out like a kamikaze like I have in the past. So I don't know. I'll have to have a think. But i'm I'm kind of concerned some of some of those guys might get out really quick and um won't see them again. so yeah i'd rather think ah the the completely correct place to talk about your race strategy is with two podcasts hosts that's like we're the optimal people to discuss this with yeah yeah don't know the the chinese guys might have a listening i can't give too much away yeah yeah good point
Speaker: Oh, the only other thing that I wanted to bring up was I've also heard that you like to be like, um make your own shoes with like, Oh yeah. it's incredible Well, yeah, I'm not quite making shoes, but I do. So I do the, ah do the re-souling with Vibram. So I've been doing that.
Speaker: Oh, A little while, I had a had a problem probably for the past six months um getting getting stock. like it was It's incredibly hard to get Vibram in Australia. um They just like, yeah, unless there's like an authorized distributor for Vibram in each region and the one in Australia were just stocking boot sales and that was it. and i And I kept nagging them and they were just like, oh, we're not interested, i guess.
Speaker: I was just small fry, but um I've got um just recently we've got, they've started getting them in, which is really, really lucky. So, yeah, like um oh I'll have to, um you might be able to link my maya page in the show notes or something, but, yeah, I've been doing all sorts of different,
Speaker: different re-soles like we do oh you can go from i've got nine mil lugs down to about two um and yeah like we put them on anything so you can put them on like a road uh super shoe like the say like the vapor fly or something um and that way you can take it off road and you can just punch trails in the vapor fly and not not worry about shredding the the outer sock um Which is, yeah, I just, I saw, i've so I'd seen it. A few like European cobblers had been um doing it. Like I'd seen that and I was like, oh yeah, I'd like to get that done. And i was like, you know what? I could probably just do it myself.
Speaker: So yeah, I just, I had ah ah had most of the equipment we we needed already. Like we had a few sanders and things, but other than that, yeah, just got all the stuff and yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I've i've been been doing a bit of that ever since. Hopefully do a bit more now that i I can actually get the souls in because it was so incredibly hard recently, like just impossible. But, yeah, so anyone listening that wants like,
Speaker: Once something done, like i've done I've done like five pairs of like a VK shoe for Ian Best he's been using in Europe. um And I think he's been fairly happy with them. So, yeah, like and like anybody, whatever your ideas might be, like please just reach out. um I'm all ears and I'm always curious. Like we can probably make anything work. Yeah.
Speaker: And, yeah, just like look up Vibram Light Base if you're interested and message me. But, yeah, we can sort something out for sure. Cool. And what shoes will you be rocking for Asia Pacific, champs?
Speaker: Oh, good question. um I won't decide until I've been over there and had a look at the course because it's, um we're just not really sure. Like we've had a few meetings um and it looks almost like it might be kind of paved in like a stone kind of course the most of the way. So a road shoe might even be the guy with something like the two mil lugs on it or something like that. sigh yeah So, yeah.
Speaker: Awesome. um was there any other news around brands that we wanted to reveal yeah yeah um yeah for sure like that will be so i'll be in a i'll be in a hoker shoe because i have uh i have someone with hoker now um there was a bit of I couldn't, I wasn't sure if I could announce it publicly or not until recently. um They've said that they're going to put something out and once they do that, I think I'm good to go. But yeah, I'm good to say now that I have ah have signed a deal with Hoka, which is really exciting.
Speaker: Like I'm super stoked, like ah that they've they've been happy to invest in me at this stage in in my running. it some It's pretty crazy.
Speaker: Oh, they'd be crazy not to invest in you. Yeah, agreed. I think it's it's crazy that no one snapped you up before this or you didn't have every brand knocking on your doorstep. ah I don't know. I mean, you never know what could happen with with young young athletes like me. Like, you might just lose lose interest or something. So I understand why it's risky.
Speaker: So, yeah, I'm really really grateful to them. the There's an awesome team behind the – poker australia so they've been really kind to me and i'm really thankful for that have you asked them if you're allowed to re-sol any of the shoes if you want to like can you take what their their road super shoe and then put a vroom outsole on it yeah i haven't i haven't raised this with them i haven't haven't raced in um in a customized shoe yet um I probably as should. it before If I was going to do it, I would have to ask and I'm not sure what the answer will be. But um I mean, they already Vibram cells on them anyway, so I don't know. yes It is an aftermarket modification though, so they might not be too happy with that.
Speaker: a I'm sure you can swindle something. what um Well, thank you so much for, yeah, like the race recap and I'm really, yeah we're really excited for Asia Pacific Champs and what's to come.
Speaker: A quick break in the show to thank Bix. Bix has just come out with their 30 gram gel in two brand new flavors. This is a new gel, new flavors. You've got the choice of the salted strawberry or the berry. The salted strawberry is also packing 300 milligrams of sodium as an increase, whereas the berry has 200 milligrams. Both make them perfect for the conditions we have in Australia, yeah whereas most gels on the market do not have sodium within them. What Bix has done here is take the recipe for the gels that work so well, that 1.8 ratio that is very, very friendly on the stomach and added a soft, subtle, but very tasty twist that you can dial in your race day and your training nutrition to that extra fine detail.
Speaker: As you know, bix has been supporting the show from the start and it literally helps keep the podcast coming to you every week. So if you want to support the show, level up your own nutrition game, head over to the Bix website, use our brand new code PEAK, P-E-A-K for 20% off at checkout. And with that, let's get back to the show.
Speaker: But moving on now to a recap from James, got some exciting news about being back into a bit more running. Yeah. so last time i was on couple of weeks ago, i said that I'd spoken to Luke, my sports car, and he, I was having this issue where like I'd have had the cortisone injections, they initially worked and then it just didn't seem to be really getting anywhere.
Speaker: Every step, get nerve pain in both quads. And I was just kind of getting really over it again. Anyway, Luke has said that because, yes, I run in the morning, but then I just sit or stand at my desk the entire day. I'm fit, but inactive, and that we needed to just get more movement through me. So we started off, as I said before, with about a 30-minute walk in the morning before I run, and then at lunchtime, and then at dinner, I go for more walks to try and get 8,000 steps on top of whatever I run for the day.
Speaker: And literally every run since that was two weeks ago on Tuesday, I think that we had that conversation. So basically two weeks today, it's just gone like better and better and better. And to the point where I, last week we felt it was a good time to bring back in some surges. So just did eight by 30 seconds at,
Speaker: well I guess roughly like 10k kind of effort um very humbling very hard for a 30 second effort that really shouldn't have been um and then today I did 10 by a minute on two minutes off so still being very generous with the rest just sort of easing it in seeing how I respond but basically have no nerve pain at all now except when I run downhill So that's still there, which is a bit annoying, but I'm able to do in like a 15K run, I can get maybe 150 meters of rolling terrain and that's okay. Like it's it's there, but it's like a one out of 10, whereas on the flats, I can't feel it now. um So
Speaker: Yeah, it's been nice. Like the last last two weeks have been back to six days of running, kind of getting closer to that seven hour mark or so. And I was talking to Ben Burgess, actually messaged me yesterday, just seeing how I was was going. And I said to him yeah that on my run two days ago, where i was just running up the footpath and back, really uneventful, really uninteresting,
Speaker: I could kind of get bored because I wasn't running in pain every single step. Like I actually can switch off. And it was, i know that sounds like a really weird thing to say, but it was like a real kind of big tick of like, Oh, I'm not, every step is not hurting. And it's, yeah. So it's been good. And it was really interesting as well. The, just by doing those surges, which really were not hard. My two, two days later for the same heart rate on the same loop, my pace dropped by about 20, 25 seconds. Okay. Okay.
Speaker: And all I can put that down to is it's just the neuromuscular adaptation of if you just run easy and you never run any faster, you just get really compressed and that like signaling gets weak. Yeah. And I'm sure there's other adaptations in there, but I just, like I just felt like I could run again. Um, and I kind of, I don't,
Speaker: I haven't been looking at my pace because it would get really sad to do that. And I was just just running along exactly the same effort. And then looked at the end of the run. all fact, now i i got i got closer to my house and I looked at the time and I was like, hang on, I'm like five minutes ahead of where I should be here. um And yeah, got back to the house. I still stopped it. I was like, I've done my loop. I'm not going to go into an hour and back just to get my time up. But it was, yeah, it was good.
Speaker: I'll probably hear my voice. and just it's just it's It's very nice to get back to a point where I can enjoy the runs and feel little bit forward progression. and Just looking at the plan and the plan is not now just easy run, exactly the same, and we know that we're probably going to have to reduce it. It's like, oh, there's a little bit of progression in there um and a little little bit of intensity coming back in. so yeah It'll be awesome when I can get back onto the trails, but...
Speaker: Right now i'm I'm super happy with my flat runs and my slightly rolling runs and getting a little bit of intensity back. I think I said maybe four six weeks ago, like I just want to work hard. And yeah when i was when I was in the middle of my one minute on, two minute off today, which again should not feel particularly hard, but did, i was just like, I'm not sure if I still stand by that statement, but afterwards I felt i felt good. Yeah.
Speaker: So you're doing two like more intense interval sessions or runs a week that are like shorter intervals? Just one. yes so okay, one. So last week was the 30-second surges. This week was the minutes minute efforts. Next week, I'll probably do like 90-90s, just 90 seconds on, 90 seconds off around sort of threshold 10K again. So we're not... We're not trying to push it fast as in like a hard effort. It's still meant to be kind of very controlled, but um just sort of seeing how my body feels when it does it. The fact that today felt really good is a good sign. we probably um We'll probably bring in some strides at the back end of next week.
Speaker: like with the session on a Wednesday, probably on a Friday or a Saturday. But again, it will the strides will be at a very half-assed effort, like five k effort, see how that feels, and then just gradually build them up closer to what you would typically do strides at.
Speaker: um yeah So yeah, and then... doing that across six days and i think we're basically holding at the moment i'm running three days that are 60 minutes three days at 75 minutes and that's like so there's there's no like long run as such but they're all kind of 65. once we know that the body's okay with the session coming back in then we'll start to build the long run to 90 and then yeah kind of go from there we won't try and do anything more with the with the other days um so until yeah the new year but it's there's been enough setbacks of me getting a little bit excited and pushing a little bit too quickly so it's just like jo yeah yeah it has been um the good the good news is that there's absolutely no issues about my leg which is nice and i think this december yeah this december marks the fourth prolio injection which is the thing i have to take to
Speaker: improved my bone density and slowed the bone turnover for life. But after four is when the endocrinologist said that I should be back to a typical 30-year-old male's bone density that doesn't have anything else wrong with him, i.e. normal. So she was like, once once I see her in March, as long as I keep doing what i meant to be doing, it's kind of like...
Speaker: you can treat yourself like normal again, which will be cool. so hopefully it all kind of comes together where i start to get a bit of fitness. My back lets me go on trails and I don't have to kind of really be careful of, well, not be careful, I guess just be worried about the bone density stuff as much and maybe look at training for something.
Speaker: But I say that very hesitantly. So is heavy loading in the gym still a part of your program? Yeah, very much so. Yeah. So, um, from a, from a bone density perspective, doing a lot of heavy lifting, lot unilateral lifting, plyometrics, like quite high amplitude plyometrics as well.
Speaker: Um, take taking calcium and vitamin d every day the prolia like so and it's it's been good like i feel was actually this is how really weird i was feeling the my hips like where my glute med is the other day and i was like oh like the muscles are there like like there's actually there's not just like a cavernous spot where my glutes should be there's actually stuff there um And yeah, which is, which is good. Like I've always, and because of the powerlifting background, I've always just had in my head that like I'm strong, but being powerlifting strong is not running strong. And I don't particularly like, I like deadlift, bench, squat and doing that on repeat. yeah And so it was always hard to motivate myself. And this is like Pat, when I was saying before, like,
Speaker: I've had to learn, even though I know all the reasons why, I've still had to learn the lesson the hard way. So like, hence why I'm like, just if I can, yeah not if if I could go back and avoid that, I would, obviously. um But it was hard to motivate myself to go and do a bunch of Bulgarians and Copenhagans and single leg RDLs and do all my little intricate stuff I have to do. But it's worked. And for once, I actually feel like I have a core that does something, which is also quite fun.
Speaker: Yeah, that's awesome. No, it sounds like you're in a good spot. And I feel like, yeah, there's a it's a bit more exciting when you're like feeling like you can move well. And yeah, like, because pain during runs is just not enjoyable. So I'm really glad to hear that you've had a bit of improvement there.
Speaker: Yeah. And it was, there was like, obviously the compensating is an issue and that's, that was before the cortisones when I was about to pull the pin anyway. And then after them, the pain was never enough to compensate. It's just like, it's just that annoying two to three out 10 every step, but it would just occasionally get really sharp. Um,
Speaker: So, but that being gone has really changed it up and did a couple of things just to lower stress levels in general um that have really helped. So yeah I think it's combination of things, but really ironically, just going for a walk has really helped. And it's been quite nice as well to break up the day and not be behind a desk the whole do day, which I enjoy doing, but it's probably good probably good for me to have a little break in there.
Speaker: and actually yeah it's it's really bad Alfie our dog has got way too used to this now so at about 12 31 p.m he just starts howling and then the same at about sort of 7 30 8 p.m if I haven't taken him out for his evening walk he's just like standing at the door looking at me like dad come on take me out so I've created a monster but it's it's a good problem yeah oh that's awesome so happy to hear ah thank you and how about how about you jess you feeling how's it yeah how's it been off roller coaster really good yeah i um had a very chill week after roller coaster um three days of no running and i was staying with the goat kate avery for two days of that so i think
Speaker: just learning to do absolutely nothing helped a lot. We literally, um like after the race, we i was like, ah let's like go to the grocery store, which is like a K away, like just get some snacks. And she was like, no, we're getting it on Uber Eats. Like so for Kate Avery-style recovery where just, yeah, we literally sat at home and like,
Speaker: babysat Margot for two days, which is so nice. um And then, yeah just easy run for the rest of the week, um nothing crazy. And then back into sessions last week. um And, yeah, I've been feeling good. Like I moved house, so i was pretty tired from that, but I've just been – really surprised with like how the body feels. Like I just feel really strong. um
Speaker: And, yeah, even when I'm tired, I feel like I can just bang out a good session, um which is awesome. Like I think the recovery has gone well and as long as, yeah, I don't do anything silly now, um should be all good for Asia Pacific Champs and I should carry in the fitness from Roller Coaster as well.
Speaker: Yeah. And i saw you were up running on some stairs. Was that today you were getting up? Yeah, I just, um so Wednesday is like a kind of medium long run.
Speaker: And now that I'm, a bit closer to Mount Ainsley, I was like, I might as well go and just practice. It's mostly the downhill downstairs that I wanted to just like get as much kind of brain practice as I can with that. Cause I feel like, um, I think I'm getting better, like just at doing the double, like skipping a stair, but sometimes like my brain gets so like muddled with steps. Cause I feel like,
Speaker: you kind of get into a routine and then all of a sudden you just get a bit like tripped out. um So I just want to like make sure I'm practicing that a bit before Asia Pacific Champs. um So I went to Tenant as well, which is what Pat mentioned before on the weekend, which is probably the only other stair kind of option that we have today.
Speaker: here, um which is not it's not man-made stair kind of vibes. It's like a bit more rocky and uneven, um but it does give I think it works the same muscles um yeah and it's a much longer climb than anything we'd get in the race. um So I think if you're strong over a long climb, like you're always going to be strong in the shorter climbs. So it's not a bad option for us. Canberians.
Speaker: No, no. at So, Pat, have you found the same thing, that it's kind of that mix of skill and a bit of conditioning for the the downhill the stairs is almost more important? Yeah, I think um our stairs are so tricky. Like, it's it's almost...
Speaker: Yeah, like you almost just don't want to think about it, I've found, like, and just go for it, you know, especially going downhill. But, yeah, like I've – when I've done like Hounslow in the past, like I've been more beat up after that than any other race, I think, just because you're going up and down so many stairs and you're just not used to it. So, yeah, I think you definitely need the conditioning. But, yeah, there is a mental side to it where you just got to kind of go for it, I think.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. think this is the, ah the joy of being 17 of just like a little little bit less self-preservation and just a little bit more confidence. Yeah. maybe yeah Yeah. No, I think there is an element of like switching off when you're doing downhills for sure.
Speaker: Like, um, cause I think if you're trying to think about every step, it, it gets too much cause you're moving too fast for your brain to like process that. So yeah I don't know. It's tricky to explain.
Speaker: Is there anything between now and China that you guys are trying to work on or it's you really found the rhythm with training and just keep doing what you're doing? Um, for me, I want to get a few more like longer tempos on, um, like undulating terrain. So that'll be like my Friday session two by five K. um and then, yeah, just like one more run, um, prioritizing stairs around Canberra and then I'm off to China next week. so I'll get to go on the course next weekend.
Speaker: oh wow is that a week and a half before your race ah yeah like two weeks i fly out two weeks weeks before yeah yeah cool it's great you're going to spend that that much time out there yeah i'm pretty lucky um yes because it's a australian team i get a bit of extra leave with work which is oh perfect yeah yeah brilliant i'm making the most of it yeah it's cool does it feel different getting ready for this year's one compared to two years ago for you Definitely. i think I've had like a bit like a lot more experience now. um And
Speaker: I feel like, yeah, I'm really excited. i think because two years ago, just like having the experience at this event, it was just like, It wasn't what I expected in terms of like we did a lot better than what I expected and I think that makes me really excited because there's just a lot of possibilities with how the race can go and um I think like looking at the courses as well, I think that's going to suit a lot of Australians because we don't have typically we don't have long climbs so I think the shorter climbs are going to suit us and then the fact that it looks very Blue Mountains-esque is is very promising for us Aussies so yeah. Yeah, it's going to be it's going to be great to see how the team goes. Like we're sending some pretty pretty top runners over there. And obviously with with the exception of some of the Chinese ITRA scores, like we're pretty, bit very much up there in the competitive field. So yeah, it was i remember I remember following 2024,
Speaker: Oh, it was messaging my coach at the the time and we were just like, oh geez, like this is going well, this is impressive. And it was a great live stream as well. I think that was watching Mikey racing. Um, and I think he was running with Stingray, John and Aoife. And, uh, it was, yeah, it was just such a cool experience to see Australians at the front of a international race at that caliber. So yeah.
Speaker: Hopefully it goes well for you guys and we get to see that again, which I'm sure we will. Yeah, for sure. um Cool. Well, let's roll into our news topics for this week. um So we have um GPT 100 miler coming up this week. So I think that kicks off on the tomorrow.
Speaker: um Yeah. yeah Yeah, which is Thursday our time. An interesting one there. I i put i put this one in um because in the preview that Brodie and I did on Monday, we completely forgot about the fact that GPT was the 100 mile national champs.
Speaker: And given that KMR being the national champs for the short and long trail is something that we're paying a lot of attention to, i i was kind of like, oh, how do we miss this? And i had a look and as of before midday today, neither GPT nor ORTRA had posted anything recently about this event.
Speaker: GPT has now posted something to say it, but it just kind of let left me apologizing for the people that have gone to this because they wanted to be the national champs and not giving you the credit. And we probably should have put a bit more focus on the Australian fields that are maybe not going to be racing for the win against the likes of Chris Myers, but will be racing for the national champs. But also that it's just a shame that it seemed to me like the national champs got lost in the World Trail Majors chat and from the GPT side and that the
Speaker: and and they have like said they have now posted but ultra has not done a single post about this which again it's just a shame when we're seeing so much forward trajectory in the sport and growth and attention and awareness and then we just drop the ball again which yeah yeah yeah definitely so yeah a few questions that need answers there um yeah um But nothing more ready to say just other than apologize ah we apologize for missing the fact that it was because we are excited about that element of it as well. Yes, definitely.
Speaker: um Cool. And then we also had King of the Hill. as um as of this morning, Piotr Babis and Prairie Lou Connan were the final two runners. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah They're up to, sorry, I haven't updated that. They're up 104 laps now. They're still going. Wow. So that's pretty impressive. So they've already surpassed the winning performance, um which was 90 laps from last year that Piotr ran.
Speaker: um So let's see how far they can go. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's kind of mad, just the fact, like the idea of being out there for 104 hours is, yeah, Pat's just there shaking his head. Could you ever see yourself doing this?
Speaker: No, no, oh, it's just like, that's gotta be so taxing. Like I can't ah can't imagine how they feel after finishing that. It's crazy, like the the sleep deprivation and everything would just be, yeah.
Speaker: yeah definitely maybe one day i don't know ah don't know yeah yeah it was interesting i interviewed piota after he won it last year and i think he did 92 ish laps then and he was fine like it really hadn't affected him that much and i was just like you are he's clearly born for it yeah he's built different he is built different he's definitely built different But we also had, in terms of the women, we had Judith Arndt as the last woman standing at 49 laps and it looked like she just tapped out ahead of Simone who unfortunately had to call it at 48 laps, which from the looks of it was due to injury. um unfortunately but i feel like yeah like this is a brutal event and to make it 201 k's with 14 000 meters of vert is pretty impressive for your first go at it so well done to our very own simone
Speaker: Yeah, it was it was was cool to see two women pushing it that far as well, getting up to that 48-hour mark. I can't remember exactly what the winner did last year, but i don't think it was quite that far.
Speaker: um And yeah, Judith, um by the fact that she finished that 49th lap in 40 minutes, I think, yeah, she was looking for that female assist from Sim and then take the the female prize money and head off.
Speaker: Yeah, actually a bit of juicy goss on this is apparently There is kind of unequal prize money at King of the Hill which sort of needs to be called out because um their prize structure is the overall winner gets $20,000 and then like the male and female winner gets $5,000.
Speaker: So don't know. I think. So it means the male winner i will get $25,000. Yeah. yeah Yeah, no there there is that that that inequity. And I think because it's but yeah the the likelihood, yeah, you have to be the best backyard ultra, best ultra runner in the world and probably still struggle to do that.
Speaker: Yeah, which I guess there's probably like an argument where people, there is like a bit of a um trend where women start to get, like the gap between men and women gets a bit closer as the longer um distances go But I don't think we see that commonly enough for us to be able to assume that it's possible that a woman has as is much chance to win the race as a man.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah yeah And Sophie Broome just put up on her story. She was looking at some past articles. Guillaume, his name's escaping me, but he's a really well-known trail running researcher. And his research showed that, yes, the gap closes.
Speaker: But it doesn't close. The point point being that there should be separate. like It should be equal, male, male female. the If you win the female, you win the male, you get the same amount. Not an overall.
Speaker: I think it so should be a separate race, like seen as a separate race. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, um the last bit of news that we have for today was on Skyrunning because they're proposing some changes in the under-23 pathway. for next year. um So the World Sky Running Series Business Development Manager has signalled more accessible and inclusive youth series 2027 where um they're preparing a youth series that is more dynamic, inclusive and more accessible, um opening wider pathways for emerging runners worldwide to test themselves against the best.
Speaker: um So what are your thoughts on this, Pat? Yeah, I mean, it it sounds good. Like, it's definitely um when I was over there last year, it was very much a thing of like there was Europe and then there was a few other countries. But, yeah, it's I think it's quite hard to get over there. Yeah.
Speaker: So anything they can do like that to help, like, I mean, that statement's pretty ambiguous. I don't really know what they're actually doing, but, um, yeah, anything that could help. Like I, I didn't even know about it until, until Blake had mentioned it to me. Um, and it is so awesome. Like I can't recommend sky running enough. It's like such good fun. So, um,
Speaker: Yeah, I think anything they can do to make it easier. I'm not sure what that looks like, but um it'd be really beneficial. Yeah, so I guess we don't know too many more details at the moment, but hopefully it looks like a bit more support in terms of travel to get to the different races.
Speaker: Yeah, it's it's a very, again, trail running-esque comment in the sense that we see this from the UTMB group all the time. And they put out some information that's just enough to be interesting, but with no actual substance to it and no information that that we can actually use. But hopefully it means that they're really seeing that investing into the youth participation across the world as well. Like the Skyrunning World Series, aside from Australia and New Zealand, they're pretty much everywhere or in every continent.
Speaker: And so it would be great to see that local support going to get under 23s into that and show show them because like Pat, as you know, ah you found out like the trails are so fun.
Speaker: ah But I feel like one of the one of the hardest things is access at that age and and and just understanding that it's an option. And so that, that yeah, it would be great to see. Definitely. Yeah. um Do you want to just cover one of these questions that we have? so we've got a listener question um from Dave Vernon, which is around um the national champs that are going to be held in Kunani. next year. um
Speaker: And it was ah topic of discussion when we had um the race organizer on um this year and he was trying to decide how to divide up um the money for support versus prize money. um And what they've gone with is a structure where they're going to offer support for runners to get to the race, um but they're not going to offer any prize money. um And Dave is saying from his perspective, support for a national chance is
Speaker: not equal um because the money potentially goes to someone who has an off day versus a wild card who doesn't have to travel due to cost but may have been capable of meddling or performing really well. So, um yeah, I had similar thoughts um when this was raised. i yeah personally I think um support for a national champs is a bit of a tricky one because how do you make sure that everyone has had, everyone in the race has had equal opportunity to be there? um Because, yeah like there can always be someone that um just knocks it out of the park and has a really good day um versus,
Speaker: another elite runner that's that's probably showing that they deserve the support to get there um but yeah what's your thought pat on this yeah i i listened to your podcast when they were he was tossing up between this um don't know i'm i'm a fan of of the prize money approach like it's yeah i just yeah i don't see like there is a bit of inequity maybe in the in the support, like ah I did apply and I and i got ah got a bit of support, I think, for the accommodation and the entry fees, but I don't know what it looks like for everyone and how they how they determine, like, who gets what, you know. I'm not sure how that works.
Speaker: What did the application process look like for you? ah It was basically you had to put in – you know, what what kind of, I guess, level you were as ah as a runner, um what what your ambitions were, so what you were hoping to get to maybe next year in terms of the ah World Trail Champs. um And, like, do you do you receive already receive support from sponsors or anything else like that? um And just, yeah, why why do you want to come to KMR was the de gist of it.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a tricky one, isn't it? Because it's obviously, it's expensive to fly down to Tassie and that could be a real barrier for somebody that could be winning the race but just doesn't have the finances or the free finances to do that. But then, yeah, how do you decide who's worthy of what level of support and the others? Like, is being a better runner, does that actually mean you're more worthy of the support if you're still competing for the national champs? Like, you could have your breakout day but not have to prove it does so and yeah like pat obviously don't don't say but did it ask when you put in like do you have support from sponsors did it ask you what the support looked like or did it just say like do you have do you have sponsor yeah it was pretty like direct in that like it was asking if if so what what is it yeah yeah yeah okay cool no so that's so that's good so it is it is noticing that but i i think it's it's it's going to be divisive because there's probably no right answer to this one and kmr and uh has done like and like lincoln and his team have done a lot i know to try and source the money to do this
Speaker: Whether they we go through this whole process and the answer is like, nah, we should have just put that money to prize money and incentivize people to come and raise their hardest that way rather than try to offset some of the costs of the accommodation or the travel or the race entries another way. We'll find out. but it's yeah it's it's it is It is a tricky one and and like I appreciate Dave's comment because it it does help with the conversation. like He's one of the top guys in the country as well and and hopefully is in the process of becoming Australian. So it's an important conversation to have.
Speaker: Yeah, and he's sort of suggesting that like if support was offered retrospective um for anyone who makes the Australian team or world champs as another idea. So incentives for those at the Australian champs level offsets cost to travel.
Speaker: um to south africa is just another thought um that's an interesting idea yeah yeah like if you perform then you'll get reimbursed essentially for yeah a portion of your your costs that's kind of the same as prize money though in a way yeah it is i wonder if there's a tax difference somewhere there isn Probably. Yeah. um Cool.
Speaker: So now we just want to jump into results. So we did have um one of our adopted Aussies, Juliette Sewell, who um has relocated over to the US and she ran the Javelina 100 mile.
Speaker: so I think that was ah definitely her first 100 miler. um And she placed six in the women's field in 14 hours 55. um which is amazing.
Speaker: I think that's an epic result for Juliet and yeah, really exciting for her. No, she, i was was following the race as best we could with the time zone and I think Juliet, when I first checked maybe around the 80k mark, she was in 9th or 10th and just kind of made her way through but Historically, I think until last year, the course record on this was about four or there was there was Camille had gone to 13 mid or so. And then I think the next fastest time is in the the low or mid 14s. And so she's run an exceptionally good time. The sports is just getting very, very fast. And ah Heather Jackson was not too far away from what Tara Dow ran last year, maybe 10, 15 minutes or so. And that was a like, oh my God, level of performance.
Speaker: so yeah that's that that's huge for juliet um and i think just looking at her strada and a couple of conversations she's had a coaching change as well which seems to have suited her um in the in this result so interesting juliet if you listen and that's incorrect please do fact check me but i'm yeah pretty sure that's that's a change so yeah huge from her Might need to get her on for an update. Yeah. um no um Cool. And then domestically, so we had four peaks, which we were able to talk about.
Speaker: some of the battles on the men's side, um but just to run through the overall results. um So we had Vlad Ixel in first place in the overall standings, um and then Patrick Clark in second, um and Nathan Lawson took out third in the overall standings.
Speaker: um And then in the ladies, we had Lucy Bartholomew in first um and then Tori Thomas in second and Courtney Ellis in third for the overall standings.
Speaker: Do we want to go through day by day? um No, I reckon that's that's probably okay unless you think we should. no No. Pat, how did it work with the penalty for you?
Speaker: um Yeah, they were like they weren't really sure. I'm not sure what they've done in the past because I think this has happened a few times. But um see yeah, dawa they were look,
Speaker: They looked at what my gap was at the top up there um and what I ended up doing as as my alter alternate course um and kind of went, well, we won't disqualify you because you've still done most of it and you're still in the in the lead. But um they ended up deciding that we just haven't,
Speaker: equal like equal time for that day, which meant Vlad won on aggregate. So I don't think Vlad, they were talking for a little while at the start about not changing it and Vlad wasn't too happy about that. So I think... um it was It was good we could we could come to a decision everyone was happy with, but it was tricky because like an event like this, they don't have like a a rule that says you run off course and you get a certain time penalty. Like I know in other events, Vlad said he's had an hour like time penalty when he's gone off course or missed a turn, um which maybe is something they could think about in the future. don't know. But yeah, that's what ended up happening. Yeah.
Speaker: Cool. um so we've already run through sort of the King of the Hill results, um but another race that we had on the weekend was the Illawarra Escarpment Traverse. um So that's a 19K race.
Speaker: um And for the men, ah Jaden Simpson took it out in one hour 37. thirty seven And then in the ladies, Michaela McLean took the win in 1 hour 59.14. So those runners.
Speaker: And then we also had a Kunani Trail Series on on the weekend, which Cascade Slide, so down in Tassie. um And Andrew Gaskell took out the win in the men um and in a time of 54 minutes and 12 seconds.
Speaker: Oh, no, sorry. One hour 22 was his time. um And then in the ladies, ah we had Martha Mellor take out the win um in one hour 40. And then we also had the Sri Chinmoy Sydney Series on, so Royal National Park, um which had a half marathon and a marathon. So in the marathon, Darren Moyle took out the win in 3 hours 10 and Lucy Clark took out the win for the ladies in 3 hours 52. then in the half marathon...
Speaker: um We had Peter Richardson take out the win for the men in one hour 25 and Sarah Brewster take out the win for the ladies in one hour 35. you So that was all of our results across the country for the weekend. um and coming up this week, we've got another pretty busy weekend of trail running. Grampians Peaks Trail is on and as we spoke about before, which starts on Thursday, um which also has a 50K a 30K as well, um which is a new distance. So that'll be super exciting.
Speaker: um We've also got the Marysville Marathon Festival in Victoria, the Booty Coastal Run in New South Wales, um Sydney Trail Huff Marathon, Sydney Trail Spring Series, Bear Creek Trail Run, Coonawarra Running Festival in South Australia, Feral Pig Ultra in Western Australia,
Speaker: ah We've got the Mount Glorious Mountain Trails in Queensland, um one of the Southeast Queensland Trail Series. um And to finish all of that off, we've got the Triple Top Mountain Run in Tasmania. So a busy weekend ahead.
Speaker: Yeah, very busy. So I've just remembered that Jeff Russell, who is current but stepping down, President of Travelling Association of Queensland, sent me through the list for the Mount Glorious because it's their state champs and specifically... he's focusing on the under 20. So what they're doing in Queensland is the winner of the under 20 male and female, I think the winner of the Open as well, they're going to get fully supported to go down to KMR for the national championships. So this is a really cool example of a state body stepping up and kind of plugging that hole and supporting them. So I won't go through all the names, but Jeff has highlighted probably about 10 male and six females are are all ones to watch up there but yeah i just wanted to shout out that track uh as an association in Queensland do some pretty epic things and I'm sure they're going to miss Jeff and hopefully they they keep that all going but yeah I would love to see if this was something that more states could operate but yeah this is this is what this is what we need in the sport
Speaker: Definitely. That's awesome. Love to hear it. um Cool. Thanks, guys. That brings us to the end of the show. And it's been an awesome one packed, filled with very exciting um things on the horizon for our guest, which has been awesome to talk about. And um it's just so cool to have someone like so young in the sport but like so mature. And I love that you're coached by Blake. I think it's such a good um pairing. So, yeah.
Speaker: Thank you so much for jumping on with us, um Pat. And what's coming up for you this week? ah or Not too much. so I'm just trying training.
Speaker: try to stay Try to stay healthy between now and ah China will be the main goal and just cram a few more stairs between between the study maybe. Awesome.
Speaker: And what about you, James? What's coming up this week? heading across to marimbula for a wedding it's one of uh she's best friends she's the maid i want to force that'll be very exciting so i head across there on friday and then yeah come back sunday so i'll be be be yeah a busy but a very good busy weekend yeah awesome and yourself jess yeah i'm just continuing the unpacking i've got to build a desk which is challenging and um getting ready for heading to china next week so lots happening but um having fun with the process and cool all right thanks guys that brings us to the end of the show yeah thanks pat appreciate you coming on everyone listening nothing's about me thank you
