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Nate Carbonaro "Failure Rings the Doorbell. Success Picks the Lock."

Technically Alive
Technically Alive

115 plays · Aug 8, 2026

This one's with Nate. My sink and AC decided to give out in the same week, so we start there with me venting a little while Nate compares notes from his own home remodel, including a crawlspace he's not exactly thrilled about. From there it goes into his union laborer work and the bathroom he's been rebuilding by hand, including a corner vanity he wasn't about to pay $500 for. Stick around, because things really pick up around the 15 minute mark. We get into presence, what our dads did differently than their dads, and some research Nate ran into on boundaries and compassion that's been sitting with me since. He opens up about his own path through recovery and a mentor named Terry who shaped him more than he can fully put into words. Somewhere in there he drops the line that gives this episode its name, that success can be sneakier than failure because nobody warns you when things are actually going well. We close it out with him doing ninja-ups on his back porch while his granddaughter cheers him on in the background. Good one.

Transcript

Josh Zello: All right. So after some troubleshooting, we're finally on here.

Nate: okay

Josh Zello: and

Nate: Oh, hey, good morning.

Josh Zello: And thanks to Kim for letting you jack her iPad in the middle of her Saturday morning shows. Yeah, dude. um

Nate: Yeah, he's saying I'm going to get one just for, like, access to, like, you know, eye stuff. You know, like video. Because everybody's got that video.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: Video of all picture calls. I like to call it picture calls.

Josh Zello: Picture calls, FaceTimes, picture calls. Cool, dude. Well, a little while ago, you asked me what's been going on before we hit all the troubleshooting stuff. And i was in the middle of telling you that basically, ah so basically everything is broken in my house in like the last two weeks, air conditions, whatnot. But then also last night, the Freaking sink went out and i was just like, nah, I'm not dealing with this So I'm going to deal with it some point in time today. Kitchen sink and the ah

Nate: Would it stop working or just...

Josh Zello: yes sink. So so ah there was a leak in it. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't was it three months ago? So I replaced the whole faucet and my kids are my my oldest. He's stronger than he realizes. And so, you know, when he goes to like crank on that thing, you know, oh the whole thing moves now in a way that it's not supposed to move. So I got to figure out how to share that underneath the sink.

Josh Zello: oh

Nate: Wearing tear.

Josh Zello: But yeah, yeah, dude. um

Nate: This is you this week. This is you this week.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That was it. That was it, bro. Oh, man.

Nate: This is my Monday shirt at work.

Josh Zello: Yeah, that sounds about right. Sounds about right. Dude, um it's also wild first first week of school for us.

Josh Zello: I don't know if y'all's kids start right around this time up north, but we start early. And my oldest,

Nate: Yeah, this seems pretty early.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah. They start early, they get out earlier. And my oldest,

Josh Zello: my oldest started high school two days ago. So he's, I dropped him off for his first day of high school and get this. So we're sitting there. Him and I, we like colognes, like fragrances, you know, men's fragrances. We're into that stuff. And he, I pull up into the parking lot.

Josh Zello: And he pulls out this plastic bag full of the little tiny spray bottles, the little decants that he had like pulled from all those different fragrances and was going to hustle at school. was like, dude, it's like if you like it's your first day of school, if you get caught with those things, you're going to.

Josh Zello: wind up in detention. That's not a great first impression. And he's like, nah, I'll be fine. I'll be fine. was like, all right, I got to live and let learn. And ah dude, when I got back home, he um the first thing he said to me was like, dad, you're not going to believe it.

Josh Zello: All my colognes got taken. i was like, what? Yeah. And he said, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I made 26 bucks. ah So anyway, he's he's adjusting good. And Emma started eighth grade and Nate started third grade. And and it's been it's been a wild wow wild run of a week. But glad we get to talk, man.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: So what's been up? What's been up in life?

Nate: For me, I've

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: just been chilling, man. i haven't i been I'm still off since the week of the hike.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah.

Nate: So probably got to go back to work eventually soon here.

Josh Zello: yes

Nate: But I've just been enjoying summer.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: And finishing up working on a house. I got a bathroom I'm putting in. pretty much Pretty much almost done. But um I get to build a vanity and put a toilet in there.

Nate: I'm not going to build my own vanity because I want to put a corner of vanity in.

Josh Zello: Nice, man.

Nate: So I want to customize it. And they want like $500 for a corner vanity. So oh my god, let's build that. Yeah, let's go.

Josh Zello: Yeah, for sure. You got the tools and stuff at the house for that? Like you got some woodwork and stuff there?

Nate: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, um i um

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: did a lot of remodeling, and that's what I used to do before I got into the union.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: So, you know, as a laborer in the union, I don't really use all those carpenter tools, but I got all that stuff from before.

Josh Zello: Yeah, that's cool, man.

Nate: Yeah, nice, it's nice doing your own, i don't know, I like, i like walking away and

Josh Zello: Nice.

Nate: looking at something I built like, you know.

Nate: Like I have another shower now. I wanted two showers.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: I want you know wanted and i day one full and one half. Now i got two fulls. Probably get rid of the half bathroom.

Josh Zello: Hmm.

Nate: She wants a pantry. ah yeah

Nate: pantry I was going to put the bathroom, the half bathroom back into this room that I'm in because it was the office is where I stole that room from.

Josh Zello: Got you.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Put that half bathroom in when we moved in.

Josh Zello: here ah

Nate: So I was like, yeah, I'm going to make my office is bigger again. Nah, it's going to be a pain.

Josh Zello: That's the way it is, dude.

Nate: Yeah, you got to know which battles to fight and which ones to walk away from.

Josh Zello: That's the way it is.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah, that's that's one to walk away from. Get the pantry. ah Cool. Cool, dude. Well, I said is it is that mainly remodel stuff then on with your time off and for for the dudes that are listening with.

Nate: But yeah, that's, I've just been doing that.

Nate: That and.

Josh Zello: So explain your work a little bit like it's it's seasonal slash not seasonal. Like what what do everybody up on that?

Nate: Okay. So I'm a, I am a building trades laborer for like a union. I'm in a union and.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: how our work works is we just, we sign a list and then as you come up on a list, you get sent out to work. So, you know, I could sign, I could sign go sign the list and go, but go to work right now.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: know what I mean? Um, or I could take off a few weeks. It's just what I did. Cause if you, you know, if you if you have If you do the right thing with your money, you know you can steal a little time off.

Nate: But also, um the way our benefits work is you got to hit 1,000 hours and you lock in your benefits for next year.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Hmm.

Josh Zello: yeah

Nate: So you get a little play there. like I already hit my benefit hours for this year because I worked so much in the first like four or five months of this year. We were working like seven days a week on the job I was on. So...

Nate: And I was driving up to New York. I'm like, it was like an hour and a half.

Nate: You know, was like, I think there's 75 miles one way. so I was doing that every day. So I was like, yeah, I'm ready for some time. So get usually, it's usually pretty busy. Like right now, work is busy. Summertime.

Nate: So you getting time off in the summer is not like always. Like having your hours in the summer and then having and being able to Sneal steal some time off that it's usually not work.

Nate: It doesn't work out like that. So I jumped on it Plus I had to I wanted to get that bathroom down because I started that last winter I did It was like the room that was in when I moved in it was a converted garage and it was just an open room like that was like the TV, you know rec room type thing

Josh Zello: Nice.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: So I took room from that and made that extra space was where I put, I'm going to put like a new laundry room in and then the bathroom and then redid that area where the TV is, you know? So that part was like phase one, that was all done.

Nate: And I had that other room, like, you know, plastic off. So that's what I was able, and that's what I, I waited till I was going to be off again.

Josh Zello: Got you.

Nate: i was able to be off again and then I was going to finish that. Because it was, you know, I was able to like, we had a living room we were able to use.

Josh Zello: Nice.

Nate: And that would just like place, you know, a different area. I like working like that, especially when you're working on a house. Like i ah I don't like having like a remodel disruption.

Nate: You know what I mean?

Josh Zello: Yeah, I do know what you mean. We, whenever, um also just FYI, that, ah there's like a, your mic is like really sensitive. So whatever you were clicking on the desk was like popping through the, I don't know.

Josh Zello: Were you fidgeting with something or like click like, I don't i don't know.

Nate: Really? Maybe.

Nate: maybe

Josh Zello: Anyway, it was like picking something up, some sort of clicking, but um dude, whenever, okay. So we had Ava, he was like one year old. ah Yeah. He was one, he was either one or like one and a half.

Josh Zello: And when we, I mean, when I first started off in the field, i was pretty broke. Um, like entry level salary stuff in men's in community mental health is pretty like, it's pretty low. I think I was making, was either twenty seven or thirty one a year it was ah but we were like married and Oh, no, I was at Lee at that point. No, I was at Lee. I started off there. I didn't get bumped up much by the time I hit Lee, though, as ah as a university.

Josh Zello: But we lived in this little 850 square foot house that I got. We had been renting and then the renter was in a terrible car. The the guy who was renting the house was in a terrible car accident.

Josh Zello: and offered to us to like buy the house for what he bought it for five years earlier. So we got this house for like a hundred thousand or I think it was 90,000 or something like that when we first started off.

Nate: Yeah. and know

Josh Zello: So yeah, it was like eight 50. So we put an addition on the back of it when Avid was like a year and a half because Emma, um Emma was coming and we didn't have enough room for the second baby. So we put this addition on the back and so Julia was at home taking care of Avid.

Josh Zello: pregnant and our backyard and the back of our house is basically torn off while they were sticking a sticking a whole addition on the back of it but i mean super grateful for the addition but i get it it can be yeah it gets real rough yeah

Nate: It gets rough.

Nate: Well, I just, like the experience of like, like I said, that's what I did most of my life was remodeling, like residential, and the experiences of going into people's houses and tearing their kitchens out.

Nate: And then like, you could feel like, as the week went, like each week, you could feel the tension rise in like,

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: We need to, you know, we're living out of the bathroom sink. And you know what i mean? So just knowing that pressure, it's like, man, I like to try to, which is why I wanted to add another shower because I want to redo that other bathroom.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude

Nate: So I'm like, I'm not going to do that without a shower. You know what I mean?

Josh Zello: dude.

Nate: I like to, I need to have, cause I can just shut that down now when I'm ready to do that.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: And it won't affect the daily, you know, travel. I'll just put plastic up and it'll just be the work area.

Josh Zello: dude that that tension that tension is no joke that's accurate and literally each week that went by it felt like the tension in our house just rose up what's really cool this guy this guy was uh his name was val it was not his real name by the way there's like a whole slavic community in cleveland tennessee and um

Nate: Right. Mm-hmm.

Nate: right

Nate: me

Josh Zello: You know, he says, Josh, I do your audition for this much money. like he's ah Yeah. But I need you to come to the yeah to the county clerk. i you know, I don't have permit. You need poor permit. permit like That kind of thing. So we had it. Oh.

Josh Zello: Oh, you're sideways, bro. Oh, there we go.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah.

Nate: justin

Josh Zello: Yeah. um But anyway, so we got a backdoor permit and the dude was super cool, though. was him and his And his father-in-law and his brother, that's who did all the work on this addition.

Josh Zello: And they would bring Avett stuff like toys and different things like that to kind of like, to kind of ease the tension, I think. Cause they, I mean, I guess when you're in remodel, like, you know, like the longer you're there, the longer that goes on.

Nate: yeah

Josh Zello: The homeowner is just inconvenience basically but by choice.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Right. Like they know, they know that's going to happen, but still.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: I'll do.

Nate: Yeah, it's w rough.

Josh Zello: Yeah. I bet you Kim's happy to have most of it squared away then. Yeah.

Nate: Yeah, well, like I said, I set it up to where it's not even like, you know, it's not even really affecting your... I ah rolled it whenever I was working. I would just roll the...

Nate: the yom Drop gloves out cross the across the living room and then roll them up at the end of the day and it's done. But it's nice to not have that plastic up in that doorway anymore.

Josh Zello: Oh, heck yeah, man. Nice.

Nate: Because the only thing I really have left now is, i got you know like I said, I build a vanity and put a toilet in. But I'm waiting. I'm going to put a fancy toilet in. um

Josh Zello: Like one of those Japanese ones that speaks to you and stuff.

Nate: yeah

Josh Zello: ah

Nate: Almost. Not like...

Josh Zello: think

Nate: Not like the South Park one. You ever seen that South Park episode?

Josh Zello: yeah I haven't seen it.

Nate: yeah

Josh Zello: but Yeah.

Nate: He gets like a $10,000 bidet toilet and he never leaves the bathroom. It's hilarious. His wife's yelling at him and he's like she's he's like, try it!

Josh Zello: Oh, that's it, man.

Nate: And then she never comes out. thank

Nate: Well, i was I wasn't planning on putting one of them in, but now that I'm looking at it, they're like power. So I got to add it, add a electric somewhere as they were there.

Josh Zello: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Nate: Um, so I've been doing crawl.

Josh Zello: Yeah. We...

Nate: I've been, i've been laughing at the crawl space post on the, um, on the group because I'm like, I've been doing a crawl space too.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Dude, I hate, I hate working in a crawl space, man.

Josh Zello: Yeah, it's nasty.

Nate: When we were, when we, when me and Kim were shopping for a house, my requirement might some of my My two requirements were... Or no, I had three. it was I didn't want neighbors behind us.

Nate: like I wanted woods behind us. Because that's how I grew up. It's nice.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: I wanted a garage. And I wanted a basement.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: None of them.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: An absolute deal breaker was no crawl space.

Josh Zello: yeah

Nate: got cross-based.

Josh Zello: Yeah, you got a cross face.

Nate: So...

Josh Zello: Ah, geez, dude. ge Yeah, so you'll have to run some power. There's nothing worse than a cold bidet because i didn't run power to ours. Like we put an aftermarket bidet on our toilet, you know?

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: I got that.

Nate: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh Zello: We got like a F from Amazon.

Nate: Yeah, like the $50 one or whatever if you just toilet seat one.

Josh Zello: And yeah.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Yep, yep. But um

Nate: I got... We got that in the other toilet.

Josh Zello: oh, yeah.

Nate: And my sister, she, she, before I put it in, cause i was asking her about it and she was using one and she was like, I recommend she, she put me onto that. She was like, you gotta to hook it to hot water. I mean, the only advice I'll give you hook it to hot water.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: So we did, I did that, but I figured if I got to put a new toilet in, maybe I'll just put a whole, you plug them in and then it's like heated seats and everything.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: And, and well,

Josh Zello: Oh yeah, dude. Talks to you in the morning.

Nate: Yeah, like a blow dryer.

Josh Zello: Gives you, gives you morning, gives you morning affirmations.

Nate: but

Josh Zello: Race, rate your dump. It's like, just a so good morning, Nate. That was a six out of 10. Shoot for a nine tomorrow.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Crushed it. Crushed it.

Josh Zello: crushed it oh dude that's awesome well have you gotten into anything else this summer i mean with the time off like you've been reflecting you've been you've been i mean that's a lot of time to think too like what what uh what all you been getting into personally yeah

Nate: Um...

Nate: I'm pretty good at just chilling, man. um Yeah. ah

Nate: So, the one thing we did, so I do have a pool, which is nice, and I was just talking talking about that yesterday, that because when when we moved in, Kim was big on and she was like, she liked the pool, and all that, and I'm like, I never had a pool.

Josh Zello: Yeah, that is nice.

Josh Zello: Right.

Nate: I grew up poor, we didn't have a pool. Like,

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: I don't know anything about a pool, but I'm glad that we have that now because it is, it's nice. You and know you don't have to go anywhere. You just go outside and jump in the pool and it's a draw for like the kids and the grandkids and stuff. So, which like, that's pretty much what I've been doing, you know, just hanging out.

Nate: Um, This past week was pretty was pretty busy for me as well, but just in a different way. Like, we went crabbing Saturday.

Josh Zello: Oh, nice, dude.

Nate: So my grandson slept over, him and his mom. And then um granddaughter and her mother came the Saturday morning. So me, um them four, and Kim, we went and we I rented a boat down you ah like a little 16 foot skiff down in Strathmere and just went out in the bay and we just did some crabbing for the day.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: So that was pretty fun Saturday.

Josh Zello: Nice.

Nate: And, uh, you know, we caught crabs, but a lot of them were small.

Josh Zello: You get on some. You scoop some up.

Nate: Wind up throwing them back.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: And, um, I don't really like the spot. Because it's a real busy area for like a lot of boats. like You're sitting there trying to crab.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: And there's like...

Josh Zello: It's rocking. Yeah.

Nate: Yeah, they're like tubing and stuff by you. But place I used to like to go closed. And I'm trying to find a better place.

Nate: Because this place was back in the creek. I need to just get get my own freaking little skiff. So I can just drop back there.

Josh Zello: yeah. yeah

Nate: But they closed. So every other, you know, I've just been trying different boat rental places. ah i was just going to take them, go find a spot and let's fish like off the shore or off a bridge.

Nate: But then i I started thinking about i'm like, I'm focused on catching crabs. And that's like not even the point. Like half the fun for everyone is like driving around the bay in the boat.

Josh Zello: Yeah, man.

Nate: So I was like, I'm just going, who cares about the crabs? If I catch crabs, I'll go get some crab legs from the grocery store, you know, or better eating anyway.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: what So we went out and did that, and that was fun. We caught a few, but not enough really to keep them, so I just threw them back. We caught a bunch, but most of them were small.

Josh Zello: Dude, good on you. Good on you for pivoting, though. I mean, like, I, a lot of dads, a lot of dudes get, like, bullheaded on stuff like that, you know?

Josh Zello: Like, well, now we're here to catch crabs, you know?

Nate: Yeah, I'm like...

Josh Zello: And, like, ignore everybody else's misery, and you're out there trying to force something to happen, and you're yelling, and you're cussing, and then nobody wants to be in the boat with you.

Josh Zello: So that's cool that you realize like, hey, it's not really about the crabs. It's about the people in the boat and scoot around the bay a little bit.

Nate: Yeah, it was the if the experience of the day. You know, of just like riding around in the boat and just doing something different that... you don't do all the time. And my granddaughter, the older granddaughter, she was, that was a there.

Nate: She was, they never, they didn't go last year. Like we went for the first time last year, i but I took Ben, that's my oldest grandson.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: And then um we had a great time. So that's what I was like, remember like, man, we just, we didn't catch a lot of crabs last year. You know, plus we didn't go out early or nothing.

Nate: Like we wound up getting in the water till like fruits maybe 11 o'clock.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Josh Zello: he

Nate: So,

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: which Which is also ah the the other thing.

Josh Zello: Yeah. yeah

Nate: That's on me because I'm like, I'm not going up early, dude.

Josh Zello: yeah That's family time, right?

Nate: but Yeah, I'm not running around.

Josh Zello: You're on family time.

Nate: Like, I got up in the morning and cooked breakfast.

Josh Zello: Making coffee.

Nate: You know what I mean? Like, I'm not.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Yeah, um I cooked a big breakfast. So I'm like, I'm not running to the frigging. they Like, trying to focus on the point. You know i mean

Josh Zello: Yeah, man. Absolutely. i So do y'all, um when you're crabbing, do you, are you, do you toss in like chicken lines out or are you going from post to post and scooping? Like, are you got traps out? What do you what do y'all do?

Nate: Um, so I think you need permits for traps, like to the drop-in traps that you go back and pick up.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: Um, so you can, you don't put it, you don't, if you're just hand lining or you're just like using it, like the pull-up traps, like that net, you know, the cage.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah, they're like foldable traps.

Nate: Yeah, like no those are like the basket.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nate: So we just used that and hand-line. it i like the hand-line, personally.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: Because it's like you're fishing and you're busy. You're doing stuff.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah.

Nate: I mean, really, really on unless the water's really still, that the basket traps, it's hard to do that from the boat.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: but they're like And like like, that Saturday, day the tide was going in or out.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: or Anyway, it was there was the water was too rough. So...

Josh Zello: I got you.

Nate: But we were catching them on the hand line and just put you know put the chicken on there, reel them in, grab them with the net.

Josh Zello: I got you.

Josh Zello: is

Nate: Which is fun.

Josh Zello: That reminds me. Every once in a while, my grandpa Zello, so my dad's dad, he would put his ski boat out in the Chesapeake Bay and ah we'd get an invite to go crab him.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: or fishing, but there was a time in the Chesapeake Bay ah yeah when I was young. I mean, I couldn't have been more than eight years old.

Josh Zello: The Bay was so healthy that the amount of crabs you could catch was insane.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: So we were in this boat and my grandfather always kind of pushed pushed the, you know, pushed the legality of the crab, you know, the the size, the amount, how many crabs were in the boat.

Josh Zello: And I just remember being in the front of this boat and whatever basket we had for crabs was overflowing. And so they were just taught my dad and, do you know, my, you know, my dad can get in the same mode where he's just like, ah, let's get this new crabs in the boat.

Nate: Yeah.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Right. So they're just tossing crabs in the boat. And I'm surrounded by, there's just crabs everywhere in the boat. They're like scurrying all over this like ski boat.

Josh Zello: And I'm in the middle of them trying not to get bit and tossing them all around. And they're scooping them all. I mean, it dude it was, that ah it's a fun, that's actually a really fun memory personally for me.

Josh Zello: But it's cool you guys got out there and did that, dude. You said it was a busy week though. You said you guys did that and you do some other stuff.

Nate: yeah and then so so ben stayed so he slept So I got my grandson for like four or five days. He used to sleep over. So we just hung out.

Nate: You know, just hanging out, doing stuff and swimming. You know, he yeah ah it rained. What was it, Monday, I think?

Nate: Up here? i don't know what they're out there. But here, it was raining Monday all day. Pouring. Like it was, it was so, we poured so hard I had to go let water out of the pool because it was filling up.

Josh Zello: that's torrential.

Nate: Yeah. Yeah, I didn't, yeah, I was like, I was actually, the day before that, I was putting water in the pool because was worried it was evaporating, getting down a little low, pass that circuit past that skimmer um mark.

Nate: And after I went out Tuesday, dude, it it was like to the top of the pool. I was like, oh, I can't believe it rained that much. So that's how much it rained.

Nate: And that day he was i'm like, what do you want to do? He's like, go can you take me and get me a, um, Minecraft for his switch. So we did that, which was funny.

Josh Zello: Oh, nice.

Nate: I had like a, uh, something I was thinking about, um, with that experience. Cause you know, i just took him to Walmart, got Minecraft, bought him some, uh,

Nate: What, in Mine Queens or something? I don't know. Something in-game thing.

Josh Zello: Yep. he

Nate: But, you know, so he was like, had a blast with that, you know.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: It's like, show me. Oh, look at this. I got mods.

Josh Zello: Dude, Nate, Nate is like knee deep in Minecraft right now. dude He's all about some Minecraft.

Nate: well Well, I get it because, you know, I i mean, I get it.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: I mean, and get I like in video games. I mean, it's that's I mean i can i mean understand. But it was just like, it was funny because I was thinking about it, like how, like the differences and of from generation to generation.

Nate: Because like, how we want to do more for our kids than we're done for us, or like we want to change or do different things, or we how behave how we behave differently.

Nate: Like, because I can't imagine asking my grandpa to buy me video game.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: I would never, he would have never did it.

Josh Zello: Right.

Nate: I'm like, not buying a video game.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Zello: ah

Nate: and what It wouldn't even occur to me to ask for that. You know what I mean?

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: And it's just like being able to do that is is is nice.

Josh Zello: as Yeah, man.

Nate: You know, and being able to be able to bring that experience and that just kind of, I

Nate: don't relationship access. I'm not sure a word i'm looking for, but it just was, it was cool.

Josh Zello: Yeah, man. Well, that's interesting. I mean, it's interesting you say that. One, because I think generationally, you know our parents and our grandparents were just raised so differently.

Josh Zello: But I've been, I've had this thought before. I've bounced it off a few people that I think, I think the boomer generation was like not very present, like men particularly, not very present in the home.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Like they, they did a lot of work, kind of saw presence as provision, you know? And then our family, and ah and there was like a lot of corporal punishment in that too.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: There was some like, some significant, like you, nobody was really talking to anybody about change.

Nate: No.

Josh Zello: Like it was, you had, you had the option to change or, you got punished severely for it. And our parents, I feel like maybe, you know, anybody between the, between like the older boomers and what is that? Gen X, I think like my dad is in Gen X. I think they tried to hold back that whole corporate, but they tried to hold back what was handed down to them in that sense and tried to be a little bit more present. But um I think honestly, like dudes our age right now and younger, maybe down into like the 25 range too, um if they have kids or if they have families, I think they're our generation is the first male generation to actually try to be present in ways other than provision. Like,

Josh Zello: In general, you know, i think there's more of us trying to do that than more of us that aren't, you know, I don't know. What do you think about that? Yeah.

Nate: um I agree. I agree totally. Because there's like... um

Nate: Like my my dad always worked. So I always respect...

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: I always respect that part of him. just so He worked all the time. Six days a week. you know he he He made sure we had what we needed.

Nate: But he really wasn't there emotionally. Present emotionally. So... That's something that always stuck out to me. Like, man, it's you know, providing, yeah, that's important. That's a given. You need to do that.

Nate: But you also have to provide, like like, with the presence. You have to be there.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: so that So that's always it been something that's important to me. To, like, man, you could buy this, that, and everything. that's If you're not there, spending time, being a friend, hanging out.

Nate: you know, being interested in that person, you know, if they can do a lot of damage, really, kind that people carry the rest of their lives.

Josh Zello: Yeah, man. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nate: So that's something that's always, the presence, that that that, that, that, just being present is a huge thing.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Josh Zello: and

Nate: And yeah, it's just like, even in the moments, like,

Josh Zello: Yeah, man. Absence is an action. You know, it has consequences. It does. Yeah.

Nate: you the stuff you miss when you get distracted by things, like phone call or you know whatever. And it's like, this is what's more important? Like this little moment here.

Nate: So that's something that I'm just big on because, you know, like that, so like all week, the rest of the week, he was here a couple of days and then at my granddaughter, she we were watching her like the past two days. So we just kind of really busy with that kind of stuff.

Nate: Like, on Thursdays, my wife works from home. And she babysits the youngest granddaughter. It's like Grandmom Day or whatever.

Nate: But now that we're so put it's nice when I'm off because I can kind of help her with that. Like, she doesn't have to be so distracted with the grandchild because she's, you know, she's working. She's actually actually supposed to be working.

Nate: But, um... and

Josh Zello: work or The work from home.

Nate: Yeah, yeah, Mike. But it's funny because she's like, it was easier when she was a baby, obviously. Like, she would just sleep. She wouldn't as much attention. And now she's running around talking like a little human and doing things.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: It's just like, it needs attention. Like, grandmama, I need you. Like, let's hang out. Let's play. So when I'm home, that's nice. but um But it's just fun. And just thinking about being present for that all that. So it's so cool. Like,

Nate: you know, hanging out in the pool. So last night she said, um or the the night before, it was the end of the night, she didn't ready home. She's like, read this real descriptive, Grandma, can you make cupcakes with vanilla icing and sprinkles and a jelly bean on top?

Josh Zello: It's perfect, man.

Nate: He's like, me and Mom will get the stuff and then you make it. So its like, obviously yesterday we had to make cupcakes. So,

Josh Zello: Oh, heck yeah.

Nate: Yes, you're doing that. you know Just little things like that, man. It's just so fun.

Josh Zello: It is, man.

Nate: Oh,

Josh Zello: It is. And I don't know. So, ah'd like, let me bounce this off of you. Because... And being the first generation to really, and and I'm not saying there weren't other men that are older than us that tried to be present and caught that, but I think there were few and far between, honestly.

Nate: oh for sure.

Josh Zello: um But I, so being in a generation where maybe some of us had some modeling for it, but most of us didn't, um, it feels like, and and I talked to other guys our age, it feels like we're kind of winging it a little bit, you know, like trying to figure out what it means to be present, but still be responsible for everything that we have to be responsible for.

Nate: Mm-hmm.

Josh Zello: And when I find like what's what's hard for me, man, is when the two clash, um, so when we have like multiple businesses and yeah I'm, I'm like turning out sessions and, um, going to soccer games and that,

Josh Zello: trying to be at all these things and give my energy and time to all these things and to still have like a an internal spiritual life at the same time, you know, still trying to stay online with myself.

Josh Zello: And what it's like, it's so easy sometimes to get lost in my phone or get lost in my thoughts when my family's like right there and then I'll like realize it and I'll snap to it.

Josh Zello: But then also if I'm low on energy, and I don't know if you experienced this or know anybody that does, but like if I'm low on energy, i find like I want to be present, but then I'm like irritated almost. And I'm having to like regulate, kind of regulate that irritation in the background. Yeah.

Nate: Thank you.

Josh Zello: Like I don't, of just feeling drained sometimes, you know, and and not knowing, not knowing as a man, like how much of that to express or not to express or does that ruin presence or is presence being honest to and letting your kids see that like, yeah, like it's all right to be irritated sometimes. I don't know. I'm just rambling at this point. But I think the clash sometimes of wanting to be present, but then also basically the world expecting me to perform in a certain way as a male, but also as a caregiver, also as a provider.

Josh Zello: so it's just a weird balance sometimes to like hold all the responsibility that I hold and try to like press in and be present with my kids and even with my wife, easier with my wife, sometimes more difficult with my kids. So i don't know, dude, what do you think about that?

Josh Zello: Where's that land? Yeah.

Nate: It makes me think of like this group that you started and how much I like the idea of it because of the things that you're talking about.

Nate: Because it feels like as you get older, especially, well, like that in general, as ah as a man are hard things, you know, that we don't like we deal with. Cause it's always been like that.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Like, especially emotionally, you know means like ily what like, what are you gay? know what I mean?

Josh Zello: Yeah, exactly.

Nate: You get in that kind of stuff. And it's like, as you get older, it's almost like all that kind of group friendship stuff kind of disappears in a way for, you know, you just get too busy.

Josh Zello: Yep, yep.

Nate: You know what I mean?

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah,

Nate: So like i've I've had the experience so far with this group has been kind of bringing some of that kind of kind of tapping into some of that.

Nate: So that's what I like about it. Because I think like you kind of need kind of need that um outlet, you know,

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: Especially as a dude. And especially, and sometimes it's, it needs to be outside of those family connections, you know?

Josh Zello: yeah dude yeah yeah that and

Nate: Like, I had, um I,

Nate: I lost a lot of friends, like, close friends. Um,

Nate: which is kind of weird, but

Nate: I don't know. It's just, it's like, sometimes it's like, you just need somebody to, to, to kind of kick stuff off of, even if it's like, you're not looking for an answer. You're just, you know what mean?

Nate: Someone that's outside your, your kids or your wife.

Josh Zello: I do.

Nate: You know what I mean?

Josh Zello: Dude, I do know what you mean.

Nate: Cause there's some things, there's some things, there's some things i don't know that you should be confiding in your wife for. know what I mean?

Josh Zello: yes

Nate: Cause it's like, how does that affect, um, that relationship.

Josh Zello: Yeah, man.

Nate: Does that make any sense?

Josh Zello: Nah, I mean, you're, yeah, it makes so much sense. it And, and, and, you know, it's, it's, it you mentioned the group and I'm definitely resonating with what you're saying because ah the way this happened, it was like a Friday night and I had said this in the previous podcast, but like I was listening to, i've been listening to this voice in my head for the better part of a year that was just kinda, I don't know, leading me a little astray as far as finding life interesting, enjoying like leaning into things and enjoying things.

Nate: Thank you.

Josh Zello: And I think I kinda isolated a little, nah, no I did. i think I isolated over the course of the last year. And some other circumstances were peppered in there too, which we could talk about.

Josh Zello: But I think I isolated a bit. And I was like it's a Friday night. i realized if I keep listening to this voice, man, this is this this is like the die early voice, right?

Josh Zello: It disconnects you from your family.

Nate: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Zello: It disconnects you from your friends. And so then literally the next morning is when i yeah I know about the school platform. I'm just going to invite some of some of my people into this.

Josh Zello: group we'll just we'll just post stuff stay connected because I'm really bad about texting I'm I get so many emails and so many texts in a day from all the things and the people I want to talk to most are typically the people I wind up talking to least because everything else is pulling from me and so exactly so it's like this this group

Nate: Yeah. Everything yeah gets in the way.

Josh Zello: It has been cool because it's connect. I've connected with you more between hikes. Cause we see each other, you know, for these big hikes up in Virginia, but we don't get to connect a ton.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: The group is like connected me to people, to you, to others that we might connect like every two to three months, but it's been more connection in two months than there has been in like a year, which is amazing.

Nate: Right, right, right.

Josh Zello: And, and to that point of presence, If you're just trying to do it all on your own and you're not bouncing stuff off of the people and your like your friends, if you don't have outlets to actually try things, experience things outside of your family, if all you're experiencing is your family and work and your family and work and it's no there's no like friend or support group in there,

Josh Zello: and there's no like hobby or interest or something you're doing that's interesting to you, then I think, man, I think you're onto to something. That's probably where my irritation winds up coming from is like, it's just the sort of monotony of this this circle, though.

Josh Zello: I love my kids and I love my wife and I love my life. It just, if if it, the landscape is the same over and over and over again, it's just, it's hard to show up for sometimes, you know?

Nate: It's different because those relationships are different.

Josh Zello: Yeah,

Nate: It's not there, you know, yeah, there's a, yeah, with there there's friendship. There's a part of those relationships that are friendship, but it's not like the same is like that peer to peer type thing.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: And it has there has to be there has to be a certain level of the structure of what those relationships are that remain you know apart from the direct friendship side.

Josh Zello: yeah

Nate: But that peer-to-peer guy friendship is just something that's different. in That it' we we kind of like deck gets put on the back burner easily, and especially as you

Josh Zello: e

Nate: get busy and older, you know?

Josh Zello: Yeah, I do.

Nate: it

Josh Zello: Mm

Nate: Getting busy, man, that's a a killer, man.

Josh Zello: hmm. Mm hmm.

Nate: Busy is killer, you know?

Josh Zello: Mm hmm.

Nate: I've... Because I've actually been... That's something that is got, like, it's learning how to, like, just kind of, like, relax and spend time doing nothing is something I've had to um place a higher value on because of the things, because of the life that I've lived and went through.

Nate: You know what I mean? Which I probably, I mean, we could probably get into a little detail of that if you want. Okay.

Josh Zello: it's up to you, dude. Whatever is relevant.

Nate: We pause for a second.

Josh Zello: yeah

Nate: We're under the bathroom.

Josh Zello: ye Cool. All right, back from the bathroom break.

Nate: right. All good.

Josh Zello: yes Yeah, dude.

Nate: Yeah. so I was saying about learning how to be able to, um, not, you know, be careful of how busy you get and how, how it can kind of overwhelm you and in your life.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: You know, I mean, I've had to learn that to just from being through, you know, going through recovery.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: Um,

Josh Zello: yeah

Nate: Which, it's kind of, it just, I don't know, it gets sidetracked, I guess. But I guess it will kind of be um

Nate: interesting or valuable or just, in like, talking about how we can come to know each other, really.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude, riff on it for a bit.

Nate: How do I, yeah, how do how do our connection?

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: So, I'm connected to you through your parents. which is just the whole, we i mean this is ah I mean, that's a whole another topic in itself.

Josh Zello: Yeah, whole other topic.

Nate: because

Nate: Like, and don't know, and I don't know if I've ever really talked about this side of like where I'm at with that with you. Like, your parents are like, kind of like another set of parents to me, where you understand, which is,

Josh Zello: Oh yeah. Yeah, I do.

Nate: um

Nate: so like, I'm, i'm um one of many successful products of their life's work, which is going through their recovery program and, you know, working for them and just, you know, I mean, I probably knew them, what, for maybe probably a decade before I even met you.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: You know, like I always heard it.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: I mean, I obviously knew who you were, but I know i don't think we ever met. You were off in Tennessee.

Josh Zello: No, I don't think we met until the hike, Nate. I think, I think we met, we might've crossed paths at some point when I was home, but I don't know, you know, when you were around, but I don't, I don't think so.

Nate: Yeah. To the hike.

Nate: Yeah. I don't think we ever did.

Josh Zello: I think it's really on the hike that we connected and bonded. Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: here

Nate: Because I went to. that When they had the men's home. In Fredericksburg.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nate: In. ah uh, what was it? February of 2011, I believe.

Nate: And I went through that program and then went to the next program. and And then when I graduated that whole team challenge program, cause this back when they used to do, they were like an induction phase.

Nate: And then you would go to like the second phase up in Rears, broke up in Pennsylvania.

Josh Zello: Rearsburg, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nate: So I still, I did all that. And then after the Raresburg, which was a 14 month program, after that, I went back to Fredericksburg and did like a year internship and then went home for a couple months.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: I started going to school online. um Cause that was like, I had this, I wanted to keep doing the counseling that I was doing in Teen Challenge.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah

Nate: And I like, um but I kind of felt limited in my education, if that makes sense.

Josh Zello: yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nate: Like I had like all this life experience and like that, that like no, like going through it experience, but it's like, ah it's almost like I ran into these spots where it's like, man, I feel like I don't have enough, you know, enough equipment.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: So I started going back to school, but then i wound up coming back down after I started school.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: i was home for like maybe six months. And then I went back there and I worked probably another Probably did a whole nother six months as like the full time, you know, live counselor staff thing.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: And, um but then wound up coming back to new Jersey cause it just was, it was time.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah.

Nate: I think with those, with those programs, there's also, there's times to you where you have to like actually go back into and like, you know, you know, you might, I don't know, you know,

Nate: some of the most important stages for me was when you actually like had to operate outside of the program. Like it's time to like, yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah, you got to re it's like a reintegration, you know, you got to figure out.

Nate: Like, is this me? is this change?

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Am I changed? Is this real? Is it, and walk it out and live it.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: But,

Josh Zello: Well, to your point, too, I mean, recovery, whether it's in Teen Challenge or in another program, I'm that. that seems to be pretty thematic is the, Hey, like slow down, you know, so slow down.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Like there's gotta be some time for boredom. There's gotta be some idle time.

Nate: Right.

Josh Zello: You, you have to, like slow down enough to reflect, to to think. um And I guess, you know, substance use just tosses you from one thing to the next, right?

Josh Zello: just just Just chaos.

Nate: Chaos.

Josh Zello: So yeah, I mean, that skill of learning to slow down, to do less and then figuring out, because you can do that in a controlled environment a little bit better, like a recovery center.

Nate: Right.

Josh Zello: And then I see what you're saying though. You have to take, you have to take that skill and then put it into the the real world.

Nate: Right, when you, right, so when you, that was like, when you go into a program, right, that's, but you're coming off the streets of like crazy you drug use and just chaos and whatever, you know, trauma, all this stuff.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: And one of the hardest things to do is to just sit there and do nothing. You're like,

Josh Zello: Right.

Nate: What am I doing? What do I do with myself?

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: And it's like it's like, you just have to do nothing. You got to learn how to do that. Just sit there.

Josh Zello: yeah

Nate: Peace.

Josh Zello: who

Nate: So, learn so it was which was great to do on that farm in Fredericksburg. That, it was just, for me, that was exactly what I needed coming from just the chaos of New Jersey.

Nate: And being out there in the middle of nowhere. Nah.

Josh Zello: You mean it's chaos in Jersey?

Nate: Nah.

Josh Zello: I'm just kidding.

Nate: okay

Josh Zello: No, I can see that, man. That farm is is perfect for it. it's It's perfect for it.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: um So learning how to do that was so important. And and i've I've kind of had to take that with me the rest of my life. Because it's like, which was, which was um

Nate: you know, if you you have to manage the stress as ah in recovery, it's like, you've to manage your stress. You know what I mean? Because that's what puts you in those...

Josh Zello: Yeah,

Nate: dangerous spots. You know what I mean? So learning that early on, it's like, yeah you know, I'm like where I'm at now in my life, obviously I, you can handle more stress, obviously, you I work seven days a week, it's no problem.

Josh Zello: yeah, yeah. yeah

Nate: You know what mean? But those things, it's like, like, like you were saying, you get to these places where you're so frustrated and then it's like, it comes out, you know?

Nate: So it's like managing that. and having an outlet for it. What is the outlet? You know i mean? who Who can you turn to?

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: You know that's what mean? that's what's nice about having that good, solid... that That's a key, too. i mean, I meet people all the time, but are they actually good people to be confiding in?

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: and you know You know what I mean?

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nate: So it's like i most of the people I meet in the construction industry, industry it's more of a... It's more of a mission field or like a ah counseling field than it is, you know, finding good people to, you know, link up with in that sense.

Josh Zello: Yeah, I hear you, dude. I hear you. and i Yeah, finding the right folks to to confide in and also the people that aren't going to bring more chaos into your life, right?

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Because if you worked to be able to like minimize the chaos in your life and And also learn how to do less or do nothing in a moment, which is the first step to presence, by the way. It's like, you know, when you're in chaos, you can be present with chaos, but the chaos pulls you away from presence.

Josh Zello: You know, so it's, it's, uh, to, to slow down, to to learn that skill of, of slowing down and doing nothing allows you to be allows you to be present, but it's amazing what it takes.

Josh Zello: Like whether it's a recovery program or whether you bottom out in life in a different sense, or there's some, there's some sort of like,

Josh Zello: There's these wake up moments. And I feel like I had one when I started the group. There are these wake up moments of like, man, aye I haven't been attuned. I haven't been plugged in with the people I need to be plugged in with. i haven't been doing the things that are actually good and healthy for me. And then I also haven't slowed down enough to realize that in a year.

Josh Zello: That was the scary part for me. na That's probably been the scariest thing for me in the last year is I wasn't aware enough, ah like for about a year, like my awareness wasn't around this.

Josh Zello: And so i' I'm really thankful for the realization. I'm thankful for the community. And it's woke me up, you know, it's woke me up. And it's not woke me up in the sense of like, oh, go do a bunch of, just go do a bunch of stuff.

Josh Zello: I think doing interesting things is pivotal and doing them with people that you care about and love is pivotal. But then there are times where, you know, you got to slow down. You got to bring the chaos to a, to a quiet, like bring it to some sort of quiet space.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: Yeah, well, especially if you're being successful. Like, if you're being, like, successful in the things that you're doing, it's going to make you, you know, even more busy.

Nate: And you just keep piling on, piling on, piling on.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: Sometimes,

Nate: sometimes the learning how to stay focused and on track in success is actually harder than like when you fail, you know, like failure is obvious. It's, it's right in your face. So it's like, Oh man, I got change something.

Nate: Whereas when you're, when you're functional and you're successful, it's sometimes harder to see, you know, it's hard.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Josh Zello: That's interesting. Yeah.

Nate: I learned that in, in recovery because going to a program and failing,

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: It's like like you you fail when you succeed. and You know you see people relapse, right? And they get all good and everything's great. And so they like let their guard down.

Nate: So it's like, how do you deal with success? You know what I mean?

Josh Zello: Mm.

Nate: Because that can throw you off too. Because you get distracted from what how you got there almost. Those little things.

Josh Zello: That is a really, that's a really great point. ah I don't know that I really thought about it that way, but that the, almost like the comfort, the comfort of success doesn't, it takes you off your toes, you know, it, it takes you off your guard.

Nate: Yes.

Nate: It does. It it it kind of lulls you it lulls you to sleep in those, you know, it could be a lot of different things. It could just be just distraction or it could be like um even pride.

Nate: were just it just It just takes you, you take your eyes off the focus.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: You know, and I learned that myself, but then I remember having that conversation with guys that would come into program and it would always be older guys. You're younger, you know, like you're just still running half the time, but like it'd be older guys. It's like, man, i I keep getting to this certain point, but then it's like ah I'm succeeding, but then it's like I fall off because it's just like what happened?

Nate: Cause you just get, you know, it's almost like the success takes the focus off the basics. In a way, you know?

Josh Zello: Yeah, man. That, I mean, that really resonates. That really resonates. I mean, that, that.

Nate: they're like the So whatever you were doing this past year, and you probably were crushing it.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: Then it's like, what were you... What were the things that you were neglecting? And it's those little so little things.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: Like... It

Nate: it felt really good the other day. when I did that jump off my back thing.

Josh Zello: Heck yeah, dude. The ninja app. That was sick.

Nate: Yeah, you it felt it felt great, but, like, that's something, like, I, it's not, like, something huge or something important, but it's something that I, like, didn't even think of.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: So, like, just being in the group and trying to think of things and do, try things and try to, you know, forcing me to focus on the certain things that are important to me, like health and movement and strength and those kinds of things. It's like, oh, and then like, there's that added like, show and tell aspect of it.

Nate: That pushes me to like, that had that has pushed me in this past few weeks of like, yeah, let me try to do something and talk about it. And bring other people in on it so that it's like,

Nate: Like, even this. I'm going to get up today and come talk to you.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: know what I mean? It's like, I probably...

Josh Zello: yeah

Nate: What time is it? I'd probably still be sleeping right now.

Josh Zello: It's not nine o'clock.

Nate: Well, no, I'd probably be getting up. I might be...

Josh Zello: It might be getting up.

Nate: I might be getting up.

Josh Zello: Yeah. I appreciate the early rise too.

Nate: I'm going to...

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Well, um um on my I'm on my my layoff mode right now.

Josh Zello: Yeah. I hear you, man.

Nate: Staying up and... and eating, eating late, and got my layoff gut up, but, no, it's just, it's just that, like, the like we're talking about, man, that, that group thing, that, it's, it's nice, it's been nice, I, I'm enjoying it.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude. Love it.

Josh Zello: Yeah, me too. Me too. I think there's something, it you know, some people are different phases of life and might not specifically struggle with sort of making making things like the ninja up a place.

Josh Zello: a priority. You know, there's like so many other things that could be a priority ah that could pull your time and energy, but taking a time to just do something small like that.

Nate: Oh yeah, dude.

Josh Zello: I, or like, you know, I got, Or taking time to do something like this too. I mean, I'm building this whole right now.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: i mentioned it when we were on the hike and it's almost done. i'm building this whole education platform for counselors, for up and coming counselors.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: And it'll launch. It's like a subscription-based thing. um And I've been putting a ton of time and energy into it. And I could think of, you know, 20 things that I could do for that.

Josh Zello: Oh, and I could go choose to do that. But what felt important this morning is, like yeah you sit down and have a conversation with Nate, man, you know, and, and having some accountability in that of to do things that are not just work, you know, not just work for my family, not just work for my businesses, not just work for my clients, but it was something enjoyable outside of that.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: And, oh I just really, I think you said, the more successful you are, the bigger your life gets, the more you're the more you're pulled.

Nate: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Zello: And if things are going well, generally, i mean, I know I had air conditioned units go out and kids started school and all of that, but my life is quite stable.

Josh Zello: And that stability doesn't lend itself to me evaluating it. right there's no there's no fires you know in there's there's not a fire where i'm like oh i gotta to go attend to this thing and yeah the bigger than the bigger that world gets the less likely i am to try and do a ninja up or go on a ruck you know or sit down with some ziploc bags and

Josh Zello: look like I'm moving some cocaine somewhere, you know, like it just, ah oh

Nate: Well, you got to play some, though.

Josh Zello: yeah, dude, that's it.

Nate: You know?

Josh Zello: That's what we're getting at is like actually play.

Nate: You got to.

Josh Zello: Yep. Yep.

Nate: You know? it it's there's There's just something to it, man. That's just what you need to do.

Josh Zello: Well, do you,

Nate: i mean, I'm lucky right now. Not because of... my unique setup with work.

Josh Zello: right. Yeah.

Nate: I'm off now. I got plenty of time to do whatever I want.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: I mean, I could to be working, but I'll go back to work in September and then I'll be, I'll be like fighting. I'll be fighting to find time to do stuff.

Josh Zello: z Yeah, man.

Nate: You know, yeahre how doing you're doing construction all day and then like you get home and it's like, I don't want to do anything.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: You know what mean? So it's like you struggle with, there ah there is that struggle, man, where you you know you put your energy into something all day and then it's like, I don't got nothing left.

Josh Zello: Mm hmm.

Josh Zello: Do you think you, okay, so you might have a unique perspective on this.

Nate: You know?

Josh Zello: and I just had the thought, right? we all We all are pulled in the direction of certain vices, right? I think everybody has like something that they know they probably shouldn't engage in, but they do when they're stressed or overwhelmed or just like a go-to, right?

Josh Zello: Just is like something that they they pull on.

Nate: Mm-hmm.

Josh Zello: And I think until, I don't know that I had drawn this Until you said what you said. If we're not making time for fun, then I wonder if our like brains, our bodies, our spirits get pulled towards our vices because that is like perceived fun.

Josh Zello: You know what I mean? It's not actual fun. Maybe maybe be temporary like dopamine hit or whatnot. But if we're not having fun, either with people or by ourselves,

Josh Zello: i I just wonder if we get like caught in the sort of orbit of our vices easier, you know, if we're not having fun, weird just a thought. i don't know.

Nate: I have to think about it.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: I mean, I just, you know, coming from that, i mean, obviously going through like recovery, there's like so much there. a debt that's so i'm just so conscious of all that stuff.

Nate: You know, I don't drink and smoke and

Josh Zello: nice Right.

Nate: There's all kinds of... But it's like it's it's funny because even thinking about vices, it's like there's always something.

Josh Zello: Well, yeah, there's phones, there's TV shows, there's, there's ice cream, you know, like, yeah, yeah.

Nate: Yeah. deep Right, yeah. Eating and like... i's see i Like I said, I can i could still have one Xbox. I probably couldn't do that too long.

Nate: can get into that area.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: know what I mean? So there's like all kinds of things you have to be conscious of.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: But...

Nate: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it just drains you.

Nate: i don't know. I have to think about that.

Josh Zello: Yeah, think about it, man. Something about it resonates for me where

Josh Zello: if because it is like, you know, doing the rucking thing, putting together the sandbags and doing the research because I'm a nerd, dude. When I get on to something, I get on to it.

Josh Zello: Like i'm I'm like down rabbit holes and you we're taking all the left and right turns.

Nate: Yeah, I see that.

Josh Zello: You know I am Alice in Wonderland.

Nate: Research. Yeah. Research.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's intense and that's fun. Like that's fun for me. I can get dot the work ethic and yeah.

Nate: And you, you going through that rock and you reminded me of that comfort crisis book. It was like a chapter in there.

Josh Zello: e

Nate: It's like breaking down.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: I was like, Oh man, going in on it.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude. Well, and that same thing can get locked on to responsibility and work though.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: So that, that, that, that thing that I can do that is like life giving and fun for me, it it can like morph, take the shape of a work ethic and I can put in a 12 hour work day and not even think about it.

Nate: Right.

Josh Zello: Right. So i can go down that, down that hole and work. And then I come out and that's not exactly that. Now I've taken a superpower of mine and it's been used for responsibility and not necessarily fun, not necessarily time with my family, you know?

Nate: Oh, yeah. I can definitely, I definitely, okay. i When you phrase it like that, I definitely absolutely relate to that. Because when I'm working, I'm just locked in on that.

Josh Zello: Yeah,

Nate: And it's even I get to these points where it's like, I just need ah need to do something. i need like i'll go i um I'll go walk in the woods or something. i need to go just go sit in the woods and like kind of like recharge.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah, dude.

Nate: Go for a run. I need to get out. Or I need a day where like ah I need to just read all day.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: Because it's just like I'm not. I'm so focused on this one thing and it's not. something that I need to do, but it's not filling me. It's not filling certain parts of me.

Josh Zello: Right.

Nate: So...

Josh Zello: Right. it And this is where I worry. and This is where I worry for myself and for others with some of the hustle culture stuff and some of the push through it stuff where people, i think, and I'm definitely guilty of it, is, you I'll have a flag go up.

Josh Zello: some sort of warning sign of like, hey, you just pushed too hard. And instead of paying attention to that and like taking care of myself or asking for some needs to be met from my family or from my friends, ah like there's this part of me that'll kick in and just say, keep going you need to just keep going. Like there's no time for you to...

Josh Zello: you there's not, there's not space for you to ask for these needs to be met, or you should just be able to, you should be able to just push through this, you know, like you're like, get it together.

Nate: Man

Josh Zello: There's like a coat.

Nate: man

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah. There's like a man up coach voice in there that pushes me. And I think I've gotten better over the years of like, of catching that and softening it and being graceful, kind and merciful to myself.

Josh Zello: And also, it's still there and it's still caught. I'll listen to it. We'll like blow through things. Now I'll get to the end of a day. I'll realize I haven't done really anything enjoyable. I skipped over time. I thought, I thought like, it's kind of like frustrated, maybe a tad bit irritated in my family life that afternoon. I'll lay my head down and think, man, like, I don't even know what today was I don't even know what today was.

Nate: Yeah. hmm.

Josh Zello: And that's a bad day, right? Like that's, that's not every day. That's on a, that's a rough day for me. You know, if that, if I'm going to bed thinking that, and it just, I worry about that for our, for guys our age, for the younger generations too, because there is this message out there still, even with the, even with us trying to be more present and slow down and enjoy life more.

Josh Zello: there's still a cultural expectation that you just push, you keep going. And like in a workout, you push, you keep going until you fail, you're right.

Josh Zello: You just you keep going. And i don't I don't know, it's a skill to learn to to stop and have fun. I think that's a skill.

Nate: It is.

Josh Zello: he

Nate: And, then you know, there's balance because you can do too too much of nothing and too much of play.

Josh Zello: since Right. Yeah.

Nate: but There is balance, you know. But I do think that it is it is something that gets more more often forgot or ignored, as you know, especially our age.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: But there is that.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: like, oh, I got time for that. I got responsibilities.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Yeah, but ah are you your best self without also, like, tapping into those things?

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude. Yeah. hu kids And I think having kids forces you a little bit. You know like you have some you have grandkids, which at some point...

Josh Zello: ah Yeah, like how did you come about having grandkids, by the way? I think maybe people are probably hearing because we're the same age.

Nate: Trying to do the math.

Josh Zello: Yeah, wait, you're...

Nate: So I don't have, a so I don't,

Josh Zello: Are you older than me? Are you like a year older than me, Nate? I'm 41. Okay, yeah, you're a year older me.

Nate: I'm 42. I turned 42 this year in February.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah. Got it.

Nate: So I don't have biological children. i have four stepchildren and four grandkids.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nate: So um Kim's a little older than me and we're married.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: And her kids, I think her youngest was like 13 when we got together. But they're all older now. And the older three have children. But since we've been together, which is it's very... what from like Since we've been together, they've had all their kids. so

Josh Zello: Oh, okay.

Nate: So...

Josh Zello: I didn't realize that.

Nate: So... all the Yes, yes.

Josh Zello: So all that so they know you as Pop-Pop then. Yeah, yeah.

Nate: So so it's... a So there is none of that with them.

Josh Zello: Oh, that's cool.

Nate: Like, they were all born and I've always been Papa.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: So, which for me has been such a blessing, you know, not not actually having my own biological children. You what I mean?

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: So there's always that weird kind of step thing, but I've actually been pretty blessed. God's blessed me with a good step pop who's been a good, aunt Terry, you know, Terry, he he's been a good

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah.

Nate: Huge influence in my life. if ain't Next to your parents. God bless me with your parents. bless me with Terry. Just been, you know, huge, huge ah role model and influence in my life.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: Terry is like, I don't, I mean, how do you explain that guy? He's, he's like a jack of all trades.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: He's, you know, he's like, he was like a, uh, uh,

Josh Zello: yeah

Nate: but mechanical engineer or something and he was like a blacksmith he was like a blacksmith at the Navy Yard when it was open years ago and then he like started going to school taking classes from medical school and then became a doctor and he like yeah like does all you know fixing you know does his all his own car work and remodel and all that you know what i mean so it's just like he's just a cool dude good friend he's been he's been a huge influence on on me in my life so having that

Josh Zello: is

Josh Zello: yeah

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: example as a as a father has been good as me being, you know, for me being a step-pop, you know, so.

Josh Zello: Yeah. It's good stuff, man. It's good stuff. And I i didn't realize that.

Nate: Yeah, was like messing with people with that.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Like, yeah, i got my grandkids.

Josh Zello: ah

Nate: They're like, how old are you? um Oh, you started early.

Josh Zello: It's cool.

Nate: Yeah, yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: I'm happy for you in that sense. I didn't realize that all the grandkids have been born since you and Kim had been together. So they, they really just, that's, that's really cool. That's really cool. So they, they just, they know you as pop pop.

Josh Zello: That's awesome, man. And I think with that, you know, Maybe at some point in time. Well, I mean, I hope to do like multiple different podcast episodes with all you dudes. um I'd love to talk about fatherhood more at some point in time or grandfatherhood or just like the impact of kids because, you know, maybe a good wrap up point for this is I don't.

Josh Zello: I don't know that um I would have come to half the realizations I have as an adult if I hadn't had kids. Like kids push you to figure this stuff out.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: You know, I mean, at least they push me to figure it out.

Nate: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Zello: I think that may not be for everyone, but if I want my kids to have a good life, a present father, you know, you got to sort, you got sort some stuff out and,

Josh Zello: Before I had kids, yeah, I was trying to sort things out. I was mindful. But once you have kids and you realize, man, these people are, these little ones are, reliant on me like your grandkids look to you you know they're like looking to you and if there's some stuff you got to sort out you got to sort it out and I think too I in that sense my kids have helped me even in this process in the last couple months of just getting back on the horse in some ways that I had gotten off you know they've been a they've noticed that they're feel like oh that's cool dad can I do this with you dad me me and me and

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: me and Ava after this, we're going to go on a ruck in our neighborhood, right? He joined, he joined JROTC in high school and he's trying to train because he wants to compete with them.

Josh Zello: um But he's got to get under a 10 minute mile. So we're going to, and shout out to Mitch too. I think he just, he just went sub 10 on his or sub eight maybe you on his mile time. But the,

Josh Zello: Yeah, Ava's trying to drop his mile time. So we're going to go on a ruck and try and get him in whipped into shape in the next three three weeks.

Nate: Yeah, the mile time thing is interesting because that's something that think I'm going go out in time. I haven't done that in years. I want to go time my mile.

Josh Zello: like Yeah, yeah dude, do it.

Nate: I'll let you guys know what I I follow this YouTube channel.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: I don't know what his name is. I forget his name, but he's he's always talking about the different markers for longevity and stuff.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Nate: And that's one of them. What's your mile time?

Josh Zello: Yeah, I dig it. Is it maybe Atiyah, Peter Atiyah? He's a big one in and that whole thing.

Nate: Oh, that is nice.

Josh Zello: He got some hot water, though. He was in the Epstein files. Peter Atiyah was.

Nate: Oh.

Josh Zello: Yeah, he got...

Nate: No, not that guy.

Josh Zello: No, probably not.

Nate: Not that guy.

Josh Zello: ah Yeah. Well, cool, man. so i Well, I guess we could wrap it up.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: but Man, that was...

Nate: I definitely, I'm, nah, I just, um, it's, um, it's Dan Goh.

Josh Zello: Anything you want to...

Josh Zello: Dango.

Nate: He's got some good stuff. um Now, I mean, I'm interested. I mean, I'll be i mean down for more talks in the future. I always like talking to to and ah definitely interested more about growing up.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: You're growing up in Teen Challenge, that whole atmosphere.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: Because I think there's more there's more to talk about there, and especially with, like, going back to what we talked about with, like,

Josh Zello: That's a

Nate: how we operate, like, as opposed to our parents and their parents and, like, how, what are the changes? What did we learn? And what are what are we trying to do different?

Nate: Those kinds of things. I, like, I want to get more into that.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Because, like, um

Josh Zello: Heck yeah, dude.

Nate: because you've got some cool parents, first of all.

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Nate: I mean, I was talking to your dad the other day. He was telling me about he took your grandfather for his birthday during the race car thing.

Josh Zello: Yeah, they did the NASCAR experience.

Nate: yeah

Josh Zello: It's cool.

Nate: That's great, dude.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: So, yeah, so that, could that you know, that'll be interesting topics to get into.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: that goes along with that fatherhood stuff, so.

Josh Zello: Yeah, let's do it, man.

Nate: But I definitely ah i definitely ah definitely can relate to, you know, even not having children technically myself, but that whole having to get your stuff together, you know, that's definitely, so I can definitely relate to that because I had to get my stuff together to just be, to live, you know?

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah yeah, dude, I get it.

Nate: And that's something that's been, you know, um...

Nate: on the forefront of just life now, you know, like the agreements mean my wife made, you know, coming together and building a life, you know, what what are, what are we going to, how are we going structure this?

Josh Zello: Yep.

Nate: You know, like I have a no drinking rule at my house.

Josh Zello: Yep.

Josh Zello: Yeah,

Nate: You know what i mean? That kind of stuff. mean, I'm not, not, you know, not judging people that drink. I'm just saying like, that's the atmosphere. i create here, you know what i mean?

Josh Zello: yeah yeah, man.

Nate: Like when I have a family party, my dad wants to go over, and you know what I mean? Oh, it would do we don't drink here.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah,

Nate: From people, you know what I mean? Because just that's like a safe zone atmosphere I like to create here, you know what mean?

Josh Zello: dude. yeah dude

Nate: And those things, I think those things are important for keeping stuff together, you know, and not, you know, always say, um, i can make and I can mess up on my own. i don't need any help.

Nate: You know what mean? don't need any help.

Josh Zello: Well, yeah, maybe ah so And ah in the it would be good to, yeah, we should pick this conversation back up right here in the in the near future, honestly, because what you're getting at is boundaries, like boundaries protect as well.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Like they protect your time, they protect your energy. they protect the people that you're responsible for, right? They protect a lot of things. And so, know, getting at boundaries there and everybody's going to have their own boundaries in different spots, but I'd love to hear more about yours and even mine, like how, how mine have shaped and shifted over time. Like I'm done to, I'm down to talk about that too. So.

Nate: I read an interesting study when I was in school. They studied, they were trying to figure out to what makes people compassionate. And what I remembered from it was um with it all all from, or everything I looked at the common thread was boundaries.

Josh Zello: Interesting.

Nate: Because if you don't, it was like, basically what they concluded was like, when you have ben when you set boundaries,

Nate: like and you maintain them, and people respect your boundaries, you're able to be that you're able to be compassionate with them. As opposed to like when you people violate your boundaries or you don't have them, then there's that, it creates this like negative atmosphere where like you know bitterness, what whatever you want to go to.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Josh Zello: hmm.

Josh Zello: Yeah, yeah.

Nate: But was like that was like, they they were kind of blown away with what they found. like Man, it was like people that had strong boundaries were the people that were more compassionate. And it really resonated.

Josh Zello: Interesting.

Nate: It really resonated with me because I'm like going through recovery, boundaries are important and learning them and learning how to set them. And, you know, it it's it I could I relate it to it.

Nate: I'm like, man, it does. It really does. Because it's like when you live in that chaos of like. having to do things or put up with things that you don't want to deal with and not like having those boundaries, it doesn't create that kind of like misery, you know, where you, where do like ah this person, I don't want nothing to do it.

Josh Zello: Oh, yeah.

Nate: They don't respect this and they're all up in, you know, it's like, no, it's okay.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: but So yeah, there's some, put a pin in that.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude. Yeah. I mean, you got right at it, which is... Boundaries that also help you take ownership, right? And not blame other people all the time, right?

Josh Zello: It's like you you have to be able to set boundaries for yourself that retrain the people in your environment, especially with something like recovery, right?

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: You got to retrain everybody in your life.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Well, boy you just said it right there.

Josh Zello: Yep.

Nate: Taking responsibility.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nate: I mean, that's like the number one thing that you have to do first in recovery. But like, what I learned about recovery was, bro, most people in life could use all that.

Josh Zello: Oh, yeah.

Nate: Like, I used to say, like, man, you you people, you you might not, you you might not fall into addiction, but like, bro, you could use a couple months in Teen Challenge.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Trust me.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude. Yeah, yeah.

Nate: you dig it's It's pretty great just being able to just, you know, dive into some of these things.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: and It's almost like people that don't, I always said, I thank God.

Nate: heroin and crack were the best thing that ever happened to me.

Josh Zello: o

Nate: it Because it's what God used to like break me and open my eyes to my knee for him.

Josh Zello: yeah he

Nate: And it just is where the change is where the change happened. Because everything before that was, yeah I'm not that, you know, I'm you, I'm do this, but I'm not that, I'm not that.

Josh Zello: yeah yeah forces forces it

Nate: And then finally, when you get down to that bottom, it was like, oh yeah, I'm that. That's on. Yeah. Something's got to give. Yeah. So like, It allowed me to see like people who were successful in life, but also it's like, yeah, but what about this, this, and this? sleep There's still that... like um It's almost like, yeah, well, I related to that in the sense of me before that hitting that bottom was like, yeah, I'm good. Yeah, I do this, but I do that by choice. You know what I mean? So it's like I don't know what I'm getting at, but...

Nate: um

Josh Zello: Dude, there's a lot there. There's a lot for us to dig into there. Yeah. Cause it's, it's like, it gets right back around to what you said, which you know there are some things you, you can't do them and be successful.

Josh Zello: And then you're forced to address them like heroin, right? You, you, there's a, there's a, you, but you know, you could, you could have issues with food and still be functional and still be somewhat successful and feel like you never have to address it.

Nate: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah

Josh Zello: It's like what you were getting at even on the front end of the conversation.

Nate: What...

Josh Zello: Right. Yeah.

Nate: Well, like, yeah, yeah, yeah like those things destroyed my life to such an obvious point.

Josh Zello: And,

Nate: But like, I can look back on, on years where it's like, dude, the most destructive thing for my life was drinking.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Even if I was able to function as a person and work and do all these things, I was not a good person. And and I fought more, fought more with people that I loved.

Josh Zello: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nate: Cause you know, you want to, you know, it's you get drunk and you say things and you do things.

Josh Zello: Yep.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: And it's like, So you could be a functional person, but it's like, I'm not, I wasn't my, you know, I wasn't who I was supposed to be.

Josh Zello: Exactly.

Nate: you know what I mean?

Josh Zello: Exactly. And that's where that that's where all that recovery stuff would be helpful for anybody.

Nate: So it steals from you.

Josh Zello: It's just like becoming become more yourself.

Nate: For anybody.

Josh Zello: Find the things that keep you from from actually being authentic.

Nate: I want you to have life and live into the full through the fullest i want to live like to the fullness of life.

Josh Zello: Full man.

Nate: like yeah I've always thought about that scripture.

Josh Zello: That's it.

Nate: It's like, well, what is that?

Josh Zello: Yeah. here

Nate: And I feel like I'm living that now.

Josh Zello: That's what's up.

Nate: You know what mean?

Josh Zello: Love it.

Nate: So.

Josh Zello: Love it. And doing ninja ups at the same time, baby.

Nate: Oh, dude. I felt amazing.

Josh Zello: ah Heck yeah.

Nate: I felt amazing when I did that.

Josh Zello: oh Well, it's good.

Nate: You missed the first couple you missed the first couple of

Josh Zello: Yeah.

Nate: Recordings, yeah.

Josh Zello: ah Oh, dude.

Nate: we First times i hit it, I was like, ah, but those are some outtakes because they came out of feet in a picture.

Josh Zello: yeah okay

Nate: I'm like, what are you doing with my video?

Josh Zello: ah

Nate: Get your feet out of my video.

Josh Zello: i love it

Nate: if

Josh Zello: Oh, dude. Well, thanks for the time, Nate.

Nate: Did you hear the one? Did you hear my granddaughter in the one?

Josh Zello: Oh. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Nate: He's like, you can do it. That was great, dude.

Josh Zello: You can do it, dude.

Nate: I was like, ah.

Josh Zello: Yeah. If that doesn't motivate you, I don't know what it does.

Nate: For sure. Between that and... camera You know, not that man when I do it. I was like, oh yeah, say it again. Say it again!

Josh Zello: Good stuff, dude. Good stuff. Well... We'll get out our Saturdays then, dude.

Nate: well.

Josh Zello: Thanks for hopping on with me.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: Appreciate it.

Nate: Yeah, man, I love you and I'll talk to you.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude. Love you too. And we'll get we'll get back on this.

Nate: Yeah.

Josh Zello: All right.

Nate: I can't wait to listen to, uh, listen to some other ones.

Josh Zello: Yeah, dude.

Nate: Find out about some other fellas.

Josh Zello: And I'll get this one. i think this one should be for sure.

Nate: There's some interesting people.

Josh Zello: I think you'll find that for sure. Some interesting dudes in the group. And hopefully I'll get this uploaded by the day.

Nate: Like, I don't find myself that, I've lived a pretty crazy life, but I don't find myself that interesting.

Josh Zello: Oh, dude, you are a really interesting guy.

Nate: But, but,

Josh Zello: You're an interesting dude. So we'll unpack it even more.

Nate: you know, it takes me a little while to warm up, but, um,

Josh Zello: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it a good time today. All right, dude.

Nate: All right, man. Take it easy.

Josh Zello: I'll catch you. See you.

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