Transcript
RJ Caswell: Well, welcome back to Cereal for Dinner. i'm Super excited to have a long time. friend on for this episode, Bill Cummings. And Bill, thank you for being here. with me here. um on this episode. And as I tee this up for you.
RJ Caswell: Um, You sent me your bio. And what I loved about your bio was, and everybody does this for me. You didn't mention... anything about your titles. And you've had impressive titles, executive director, founder, executive pastor, now CEO, which I think we'll touch probably towards the end of ah this podcast.
Bill Cummings: Mmm.
RJ Caswell: But I'm going to read what you wrote to me because I want other people to hear this. I just thought it was beautiful.
Bill Cummings: Okay.
RJ Caswell: when um You emailed me and said, hey, here's a short bio you can use for this. And this is what it says. Bill loves building meaningful relationships and partnerships.
RJ Caswell: with the hope that people's lives are made better in. the process. now I would say let's unpack that, because that might take a long time.
RJ Caswell: but Tell me a little bit.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: How did you land on that? I mean, that's so cool and it's beautiful to me.
Bill Cummings: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think it. I haven't thought about how I landed on it. So it's a good.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: And I think that's just. The natural outflow of how I... see Myself. Um... We all have to make a living, of course, you know.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: But. If I could do anything. That. didn't require getting paid, it would be. building relationships. It would be meeting people.
Bill Cummings: having meaningful conversations. I'm the kind of person that if if I sense openness from another person, We can be having a... Fairly. deep conversation within two minutes you know you get niceties.
Bill Cummings: And I'm just not a small talk kind of a guy like a
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: the weather and all that kind of stuff. um i'll I'll do it when it's, you know, and ah when it's appropriate or it's, you know, needed or required.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: but i just love diving deep and like tell me about your life tell me about your story i'm super curious i've always i don't know why i've always been curious since i was a little kid So, yeah, just like.
Bill Cummings: Just a desire to know and probably. a desire to be known as well, or to feel seen.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: and be heard and Um, Yes, I think.
RJ Caswell: I think some of those are those all the, some of those are those.
Bill Cummings: We're in Austin.
RJ Caswell: Common conditions for all of us, known and be known.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: And what I do know about you is that word curiosity.
Bill Cummings: Right.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: So I love. you know, including that piece in that. wolf Great job, but I'm going to use that as a springboard because you used a word in that sentence. partnerships.
Bill Cummings: m Yeah.
RJ Caswell: And I know that's something. um you've been involved in as long as I've known you. But honestly, longer than I've known you, I think partnerships has driven a lot of. who you are.
RJ Caswell: So, in in fact, I know you started an entire... international nonprofit. based on partnerships.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: And they're hard, right? Partnerships are hard. They're beautiful.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: They're difficult. They're painful. Tell me a little bit about... in In your thoughts, in your history, in your experience. For partnerships, when did they work really well?
RJ Caswell: And what are things that cause... Something to unravel.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Well... I mean, before I even get into the more detailed ah detailed response to your question, I think to me, I'm a person like words matter, like the words we use really matter. And I think the word partnership often gets kind of tossed around.
Bill Cummings: for in ways that are just not. um Not as significant. as really the word really. can should convey like oh we're partnering and we're partnering on this thing and hey they're a partner people call you know some companies call clients or customers our partners and it's like do you really mean that is this really like we're really in this together
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: So I don't I don't use that word lightly at all. Um, and and there there is kind of like a life story life you know kind of trajectory that that caused me to feel or be inclined to pursue.
Bill Cummings: partnerships and some of it comes from like going through some of life alone and feeling like you know there weren't There weren't real partnerships.
RJ Caswell: no
Bill Cummings: you know Um, I'm reminded of a time I was serving as an executive pastor at a growing church. um, in Eastern Pennsylvania. And I was probably like eight years into my career. i I became a pastor before anybody should be allowed to be a pastor. You know, in my early 20s, I'm like, I'm just figuring. myself out and you know.
Bill Cummings: Um, so but in the first like eight years just growing church just head spinning trying to just keep everything together And I remember driving down. The Highway.
Bill Cummings: and In thinking. Man, if something happened. to me or my family. in the middle of the night and I needed to call somebody. Who would I call? Like...
RJ Caswell: Wow.
Bill Cummings: Who? Who? Who could I call that would respond to me as Bill and not Pastor Bill? You know. um ton I think a lot of people out of respect for my role would have responded, oh, Pastor Bill needs help.
Bill Cummings: But who would respond if it was just Bill? you know So is this what?
RJ Caswell: And I do think, I just want to pause there. I do think there's right uniqueness because we both have a shared experience of working on a church staff.
Bill Cummings: Right.
RJ Caswell: which can be beautiful and rewarding, but it also comes with challenges that I don't think anybody explains to you before you're. on that church staff. and i think the The crux of it is you just hit it.
Bill Cummings: Hmm.
RJ Caswell: It's that known and be known. Am I known for me as a...
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: person. Or am I known for me in my position?
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: And even hearing you tell that story of I'm driving down, would anybody know me and my family? As. not as part of Connected. What a question at an early age in your career too.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. and And. yeah I can bring myself right back. I know remember what car I was driving, you know just what the weather was like. in
RJ Caswell: a
Bill Cummings: And I don't have that kind of memory like that's I'm not a person who has a really good memory or recall But that just stood out to me
RJ Caswell: ah
Bill Cummings: And I think within a few days, there was this guy named Darian. um that was a part of our church. He was a leader. but a lay leader in the church. and And I just really felt this connection with him. and i was And I went and told him that story. And I was like.
Bill Cummings: Hey man, like... it it was almost like being a kid on the playground can we be friends you know yeah
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: And would you would you be okay with just calling me Bill and not Pastor Bill, you know? And I don't know if that's exactly how the conversation went, but that's you know like kind of the the gist of it.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: And that started a friendship of... you know darian he knows the day and the hour he's like he's got a great memory like i think we're close to 30 years of friendship where
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: best friends and learning so much from each other. And then from then on, it was like. Man, like we need each other in life, you know? So I think that was the beginning of the real like a draw toward.
Bill Cummings: like man i want to work with other people and learn from them them learn from me Even in our work in Guatemala is like, you know, we're serving. we We were funding a local leader who was doing work, and and you know ah and you were you've you've been there. You've seen it you know yourself. and um The...
Bill Cummings: in an urban settlement community and in extreme poverty and
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: People living in 8x8. you know, houses with corrugated tin walls and you know dirt floors and i learned a lot from those families those individuals you know so there's this sense of like Bye.
Bill Cummings: i need you you need me you know we all really i mean it sounds like kumbaya but like we truly need each other in life you know
RJ Caswell: So. Coming back to, and not not like a specific example. But... When you look at those partnerships, whether individual friendships or...
RJ Caswell: organizational. partnerships. Um, What are the elements that you think really take... That or need to be there to... have a chance at success.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Yeah, I think. openness, listen listening. You know, just curiosity again you know you say curiosity is a great thing it can be it can be a dangerous thing too the old saying curiosity curiosity killed the cat i don't know how that's probably dating myself with that
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: yeah True. Yeah.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: With that, I haven't heard anybody say that in a long time.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: but um yeah i think curiosity listening seeking you know to understand So that there's... Like a... foundation to whatever partnership may develop.
Bill Cummings: I think it takes time. I remember the the local leader that that who led the, you know, foundation in Guatemala that we supported. and funded she had a like a wooden you know, plaque or something on her in her living room. or in her dining room.
Bill Cummings: And it said, it takes a long time to make old friends.
RJ Caswell: Oh wow.
Bill Cummings: And I was like. Oh man, you know. like you to be able to say oh this is an old friend of mine well that takes time And I think the same is true with. partnerships. It takes Quality time.
Bill Cummings: you know spending time together and even like and if it's going to be more of an organizational partnership I don't think I, in my mind, I don't separate. that too much from personal partnerships or relationships.
Bill Cummings: Because I think. Real human relationships are at the foundation of any. business partnership. you know, organizational partnership. Obviously, there's more formal things that happen in ah in an organizational partnership.
Bill Cummings: Um, and And those things are important. Um, But I think it all starts with. getting to know each other. getting you know what's what's in your heart, what's in your mind.
Bill Cummings: What got you to like, that's a big question I ask people. It's like. tell me tell me what Like what you're doing now, what? What are the dots that are that connect that got you to where you are? How can you?
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: because i have the other like in my mind i'm like there are like four or five key things that i'm like I would never be where I was if it wasn't for this one conversation of someone say, hey, do you? You should meet so -and -so.
Bill Cummings: and meeting so -and -so change the trajectory of my life. You know? Um, so yeah i think uh yeah it just takes time and quality relationships listening learning from each other And then.
Bill Cummings: You know, so there's some more formal things that, i like I said, that I think need to happen. you know, when it's more of ah on the organizational side of things.
RJ Caswell: Sure.
Bill Cummings: and I learned. I learned from not.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: having some of those formal things in place.
RJ Caswell: ah yeah
Bill Cummings: you know where it's like oh you can't just rely on the
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: Hey, I love you. You love me. we We're cool with each other. You know, there's there's some... important things that need to. you know. take shape as well.
RJ Caswell: Right. Well, in in Even hearing you say that, coming back to... known and be known, right? I know. it We use that a lot. I've heard it forever, but I think there's so much.
RJ Caswell: truth behind it.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: When you look back... Who would you say?
RJ Caswell: believed in you. Before you really believed in yourself or saw something in Bill Cummings.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: that Bill Cummings did not necessarily see in himself. Until later.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Bye. My high school basketball coach.
RJ Caswell: oh
Bill Cummings: so I mean, first I'll say I'm. um'm I don't know what to say Short average height, you know a little below average height
RJ Caswell: Yes! I was about to say, I never saw you as ah as a hooper. That's great.
Bill Cummings: Right, probably because you didn't see me as a tall guy.
RJ Caswell: No.
Bill Cummings: Um, But. Um, but I mean, funny thing. i would For some reason, I picked... In the program, on ah on the basketball program, you know, like I got handed out every game. I got listed as five, nine and a half.
Bill Cummings: and i And I'm probably barely above 5 '8".
RJ Caswell: And a half, of course.
Bill Cummings: But I just needed to be, like, I don't know why.
RJ Caswell: um
Bill Cummings: It's like, I can't really, I can't say 5 '10". People are going to know I'm not 5 '10". but they'll believe five, nine and a half, you know.
RJ Caswell: It's like with the recruiting, everybody's going to inflate it, right?
Bill Cummings: But... Yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly.
RJ Caswell: You thought you were getting recruited is all it was.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I ran a. you know, 4 ,240.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: yeah Um, So. I'm slow. I'm not tall. um But I loved basketball growing up. I would just shoot. Hoops like endlessly, you know.
Bill Cummings: Um, And was. decent enough to make the team every year. at a small you know public high school. And. Um, just like gym rat type guy just like shooting around practice was over i'd be there for another hour you know tell my dad like wait to pick me up until you know 6 30 because you know i want to shoot more with some friends My basketball coach, you know.
Bill Cummings: Just believe he just did he just believed in me And. And. always like hey cummings you can do it man you can do it like come on like You know, just encourage me. like Hey, keep your elbow in on your foul shots, you know.
Bill Cummings: And. and ah it kind of culminated in in Me, I don't know. This is going to be another old reference. There was this Boston Celtics player named ML Carr. during during their like the 80s Larry Bird run.
RJ Caswell: That was a few years ago. Yeah, yeah yeah a few years ago.
Bill Cummings: Several, several, yeah.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: And I'll never forget him on the sidelines. He was later in his career, but he was like waving the towel as a team. He's on the bench, you know. And. And. That was me. I was like, you know, on the bench, like I i got, you know.
Bill Cummings: scrap minutes you know if we're up by 25 coach put me in for the last minute and a half or something like that you know but i was like cheering my team on our captain was like uh he was a negative guy And the coach would always get on his case.
Bill Cummings: You're the best player on the team, man. You got to be more positive. Be like Cummings.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: Look at him, you know.
RJ Caswell: Ah, be like Cummings.
Bill Cummings: And. and
RJ Caswell: I like that.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. And then. um And then my senior year. We had the award ceremony and my coach called me up. and announced me as the MVP of the team.
RJ Caswell: Wow
Bill Cummings: And I was like. What the heck, man? Like, I don't like I.
RJ Caswell: That had to be total shock. Total shock.
Bill Cummings: Total shock. Total shock. Because I'm like... Hi. I get scrap mint. I get like, you know.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: Um, I don't. I don't get in the game barely. you know what is What is going on here?
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: And and then he just kind of gave a short little speech like, you know, about my positivity and teamwork and, you know. like lifting other people up and stuff and i'm Like, why? Yeah, that I think that is me. I think I am somebody who's an encourager. and cares about other people. I had friends in high school who are so different. like you know the people who are sport you know guys and then guys with like leather belts and like chain hanging up from you know their wallet in their pocket kind of like
RJ Caswell: yes
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: just different people
RJ Caswell: We were in the grunge era, so yes.
Bill Cummings: and the Right, right.
RJ Caswell: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Bill Cummings: so Yeah, I think that' that's my... Yeah, that's that's my reference.
RJ Caswell: Eh. How has that experience... shape relationships and partnerships going forward then I mean to be Shocked at that age that somebody noticed something about you that you didn't.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: truly take notice in yourself. You're just being you, is my guess, right?
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Right.
RJ Caswell: You're being a Bill.
Bill Cummings: I'm like, yeah.
RJ Caswell: Only thing you need to do.
Bill Cummings: wasn't trying to be something or Hey, let me, let me, I mean, and when you're that young, you're not thinking like what you should be.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: You're just trying to. you know just Figure yourself out, you know. um Yeah, I think it. It. Just that. you know, being. Notice they're being seen. you know, being like.
Bill Cummings: oh wow this this This guy's got something to offer. And getting recognized for that was, yeah, set set a tone, I think. One of my favorite movies. of all time. um and i wrote a i wrote something about this uh in the title of like it was either a linkedin post or a blog post or something. like that five years ago.
Bill Cummings: like the title of it was what makes you cry
RJ Caswell: oh wow
Bill Cummings: It was all about this movie that I that i saw. uh called coda c -o -d -a I can't think of the acronym, but it's something's it's something I wish I could remember it because it's related to.
Bill Cummings: People who. ah Can't hear you know people who are deaf
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: Because the story focused on a... young lady at high school. student. who had an incredible voice, and she was the only hearing person in her family. Her brother and her parents were both deaf.
Bill Cummings: So she would sign with them and like they couldn't even hear her sing.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: They didn't even understand. that she had this gift and kind of discouraged it but she was like incredible singer so she i think it was either like berkeley you know school of music or something like that but she went for some tryout All because her high school, like, you know, music teacher saw something in her.
Bill Cummings: and Like, Hey, you can do this. You can do this. But the family is like, we need your help at home. We, you can't do like, we need you to like.
RJ Caswell: mm -hmm Yeah.
Bill Cummings: communicate for us, you know? And. um and this guy who believed in her i remember sobbing you know because she's you know i don't want to ruin the story for those who who go see the movie it's a great it's a great movie yeah go see coda but it's like someone believed in her and just like
RJ Caswell: yes ah Go see Koda. Go see Koda. Yeah.
Bill Cummings: And. And... encourage her to do something that she probably wouldn't had. Done. if it wasn't for that one person saying like man you you should go for it You know you should pursue this.
Bill Cummings: You know.
RJ Caswell: So I... Hearing that, it does, even knowing you're different. career professional journeys, we'll say it that way. That makes a lot of sense for knowing.
RJ Caswell: what I know about you and even my um interactions and friendship developed over the years as somebody who is.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: really focused on... others. um And even more so, I would take it a step further. The Bill Cummings I know is really focused on... um Those that could be marginalized or who maybe don't have a voice for themselves or haven't found their voice yet because of life.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Yeah.
RJ Caswell: um which I've always really ah appreciated about you.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Yeah.
RJ Caswell: Um,
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: So if we kind of carry that. to present day. I mean... you've You've worked in a church. You started and led an international nonprofit. You've worked for another non large nonprofit um in New York.
RJ Caswell: and And now you're... I'm going to use the title CEO because you are. um deleting this. for -profit venture, but really supporting the work of...
RJ Caswell: charities and nonprofits. doing the hard work on the front lines. um Tell me what that's been like stepping into um a similar field, but it's a you know it's a business. And so you have the business aspects, but you're also... I know helping shape.
RJ Caswell: the trajectories of these other nonprofits.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, just my experience of leading a nonprofit organization, um and I wish I knew earlier on. Because when I started that. nonprofit organization in 2008 you know and we met just like a year or so after that Um,
Bill Cummings: There was so much I didn't know, you know, being in church leadership and then leading a nonprofit, you know. and raising funds all of that you know in in church you've got a captive audience and usually like an offering
RJ Caswell: Yeah. yeahp
RJ Caswell: Yep.
Bill Cummings: plate or bucket that's being passed.
RJ Caswell: Yep.
Bill Cummings: There's no. offering there's no sunday gathering where all your donors are there in the same room and can You know.
RJ Caswell: All right.
Bill Cummings: give their offerings. So that was a whole different experience. And then And then also. you know i wish i would have known earlier on that Like, you know, I said to people all the time, like nonprofits. doesn't mean that you're not running a business.
Bill Cummings: It should be run like a business. there's business principles that you need to employ.
RJ Caswell: well
Bill Cummings: And it took me a while to come around. to that and then now leading a for -profit business um I. There was a lot to learn there, too.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: You know, it's like I learned the the business aspects that were needed in the nonprofit sector. are in a nonprofit leadership role. But a lot of that still didn't quite translate. i had ah We had a fractional c our CFO that was working with us, probably.
Bill Cummings: two years in to starting liminal. So we've we've been around for five years now. And about two years in, things were going fairly well. So we're like, hey, we need somebody to help us manage our finances.
Bill Cummings: And he looked at our budget and he was like, hey, you're organizing your budget. It looks like a nonprofit budget. you know, like real.
RJ Caswell: Oh! Yeah.
Bill Cummings: simple, like just simple.
RJ Caswell: Makes sense.
Bill Cummings: And like, you're not thinking right.
RJ Caswell: Not -profit guy, yeah.
Bill Cummings: Right. Right. You're not thinking like a business.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: You got to like EBITDA. I was like, what's EBITDA? You know, EBI, TDA.
RJ Caswell: Yeah. Yeah.
Bill Cummings: What is that? in these you know learning these acronyms and different things. Um, So yeah, that that that was a learning curve there. But yeah, the connection with... having led a nonprofit.
Bill Cummings: um And the back I think the the dot that I want to connect here is. The reason we're able to do what we do as a branding agency and messaging and marketing agency and communications work that we do with nonprofits is because I had the.
Bill Cummings: honor of leading a nonprofit that supported local leaders in Guatemala City who are running all of the programs. Most nonprofit leaders. you know have to oversee the fundraising the backyard office stuff and make sure that the programs are running smoothly.
RJ Caswell: yeah
RJ Caswell: Program.
Bill Cummings: Right. Like in. And we kind of stumbled into this model that allowed me and our team in the US. to focus on storytelling and marketing and branding and making sure that we were you know,
Bill Cummings: doing our work that in a way that gave dignity to the people, not gave the dignity, but like. elevated their dignity.
RJ Caswell: Elevated it Right.
Bill Cummings: Yeah, yeah.
RJ Caswell: Right.
Bill Cummings: um in the hearts and minds of people here in the us you know and so telling stories you know thinking about dignified storytelling and how you like, hey, don't talk about people.
Bill Cummings: you know, or exploit their story or exploit their poverty. you know, talk about them like You know, if you're going to tell a story of them, tell the story as though they're sitting right next to you. Would you say what you're saying about them if they were sitting right in the room?
Bill Cummings: So like all of that stuff.
RJ Caswell: What a filter. What a filter that right there.
Bill Cummings: What? Right?
RJ Caswell: is going to... is going to set some people back and some nonprofit leaders back.
Bill Cummings: Right. Right. Yeah, that's I mean, I think that's huge.
RJ Caswell: I mean...
Bill Cummings: i And I learned that even more working in New York City with an organization called Restore NYC.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: They serve women who... four national adult women who'd been trafficked into New York City.
RJ Caswell: Oh, wow. Yeah.
Bill Cummings: And the women who the late, the, the. Social workers and people on the staff were vigilant. with us on the fundraising team like do not exploit their stories you know they had such a like guardrails around, you know, how we could talk about you know the... the women that were. were being served there. So I think that's really important.
Bill Cummings: um But yes, since we we... did that was my role was storytelling and and branding and thinking about how are we telling these stories And. And. It was like a natural thing, you know, and I started working these like side jobs. People were asking, hey, I love how what you're doing, how you present your organization, the look, the feel, the photography, the storytelling.
Bill Cummings: Your messaging is all super clear. Can you help us with our... you know, stuff along those lines because i always say you go to a non -profit website and you're like If it. Like, i'm I'm curious to know what they do. And I'm spending time on their website for like five minutes. I'm like, I have no idea what they even do.
Bill Cummings: You know. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to.
RJ Caswell: Ciao.
Bill Cummings: fine um i want to know you know not everybody has that level of you know of interest um so yeah just
RJ Caswell: Right. Yeah.
Bill Cummings: you know that so i started doing that and then Long story, a business partner, longtime friend of mine, and and and I... hey let's merge these you know consulting practices that we have into this business and You know, now we get to serve nonprofits and basically do what I was doing in the organization I led.
Bill Cummings: doing a lot of that, you know walking alongside of nonprofits and helping them. you know tell a clear story a story that's compelling. um and elevating their work you know we say why do all the tech bros have to have all the cool design and you know, the good branding and messaging nonprofits should you know, should be elevated you know, and respected just as much or if if not more.
RJ Caswell: Absolutely. Absolutely agree with that. What I love hearing about your story. is you really have taken so much of your experience. doing and now are able to multiply that to many.
RJ Caswell: which I think is just a a a great.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: piece to to learn from that. um whether it was at the church or at... the international nonprofit and telling stories. You were telling stories for the organization you ran.
RJ Caswell: But now you get to help. Many. tell stories based on your experience and and who you are.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: So you've multiplied yourself, which I think is...
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: is awesome.
Bill Cummings: Yeah, I appreciate you seeing that.
RJ Caswell: What's up?
Bill Cummings: And I love that. I love the opportunity to work with
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Bill Cummings: So many different organizations working internationally. in the u .s And, you know. Even when we're having, so you know. sales calls. And it doesn't go like, doesn't lead to business.
Bill Cummings: I'm like. Man, I'm so grateful I got to learn about your organization and that.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: Now I know you exist. And that's an honor to just know that you're doing what you're doing, serving the community that you're serving. That's, you know. And then when we do get to work together. the opportunity to help them tell their story in a way that draws people in and increases their capacity to have an impact.
Bill Cummings: you know and among the people they serve that's yeah it's
RJ Caswell: yeah
Bill Cummings: Yeah, I love it.
RJ Caswell: Well, it's... it's it's It's so awesome to see and know where you are now and the work you get to do. And in fact, of course, we'll have... All your contact information in the show notes if anybody wants to.
RJ Caswell: Reach out to you to hear more of your story or get in touch with Liminal. We'll have all that. um down in the show notes for for people to learn and hopefully connect with you. there as well, because you're doing such great work. And so I want to make sure we we highlight that as well. But...
RJ Caswell: As we come. Towards the end. Right. I promise you 30 minutes where we're closing in on that. And I want to honor everybody who's listening that we're going to try to always keep this to around 30 minutes. So maybe that's your commute or workout or a walk or whatever it might be.
RJ Caswell: But the critical question, right The critical question. is. Bill Cummings is in the grocery store. You're going down the breakfast aisle.
RJ Caswell: And you have nothing, you know you have nothing at home. you have There's nothing in the grocery. I mean, nothing in your refrigerator. And so... You've already got your milk in your cart.
RJ Caswell: Or if you're in the South, you say buggy. And. You're looking at the cereal. What cereal? Are you picking?
Bill Cummings: mi
RJ Caswell: for dinner. It's an important question because hopefully over the next year, we're going to, you know.
Bill Cummings: It is an important question.
RJ Caswell: assimilate all this data and be able to you know produce a huge.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: meaningful report to society around serial choices.
Bill Cummings: Serial Choices
RJ Caswell: Yeah. It's big. so
Bill Cummings: it's It's a huge question and so important. and relevant to our lives in this. moment that we're living in.
RJ Caswell: TRUTH Couldn't have said it better myself. It's so important we name the podcast after it.
Bill Cummings: Yeah. I mean...
Bill Cummings: I'm gonna have to go honeycomb. Honeycombs. Honeycombs?
RJ Caswell: Honeycomb. Yeah.
Bill Cummings: Honeycomb?
RJ Caswell: Yeah. What?
Bill Cummings: That's how long it's been today.
RJ Caswell: Well, we're going to have to really find check.
Bill Cummings: We'll have to check. We'll have to check that.
RJ Caswell: We're going to have to fact check.
Bill Cummings: It's pretty bad if it's my favorite cereal and I don't know if it has an S on the end or not.
RJ Caswell: Yeah. Yeah. You should. We will fact check that for everybody. But Honeycomb, all right. There you have it, everybody.
Bill Cummings: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: That is what. Bill is having... for dinner.
Bill Cummings: Honeycomb big, yeah, yeah, yeah.
RJ Caswell: Okay. Yeah.
Bill Cummings: I don't know if anybody remembers the jingle.
RJ Caswell: Oh, do.
Bill Cummings: but
RJ Caswell: Oh yeah! We will have so many throwbacks, I think, throughout this.
Bill Cummings: Uh...
RJ Caswell: So awesome. Honeycomb it is. Bill, man, I appreciate you coming on.
Bill Cummings: There you have it.
RJ Caswell: Appreciate your journey and who you are.
Bill Cummings: Yeah, I appreciate you, RJ.
RJ Caswell: but
Bill Cummings: Yeah, really appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity to have the conversation with you.
