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Forspoken is a flop & Avengers is over - Add to Party 1.24.2023
7 Plays1 year ago
This week we discuss inflation in gatcha games, WOTC trying to monetize DnD, Avengers closing up, Microsoft layoffs, state secrets getting shared on reddit, and forspoken reviews
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome to a tea party, a friendship, a friendship simulator masquerading as a new show. I'm your host, James Hartwell, and I'm joined by Charles Yamat and I'm joined by Andy Kane.
00:00:29
Speaker
Andy made me laugh right before we started. It's not fair. Because you tried to silence me. He chided him. As I was expressing my joy. And you're a monster. You're a monster. Aw, thanks. Listen, I am not a monster, okay?
Emotional Impact of Korean Dramas
00:00:49
Speaker
I should tell you all that I begin this podcast with tears in my eyes.
00:00:56
Speaker
You guys, have you ever watched Korean dramas? Yep. Is this OK? I'm aware of them. I haven't really ever found one that like clicked with me. Well, we all know I'm a sucker for lawyers, right? You finally watch Extraordinary Attorney Wu. What? Yes, I did.
00:01:16
Speaker
I've heard good things about that one. I enjoyed it a lot. And then that led me into Vincenzo, which is what I'm watching right now. Anyways, all I mean to say is I just watched this very melodramatic scene and it was so beautiful that tears were flowing through my eyes. I don't know what's happened to me, guys.
00:01:37
Speaker
And Andy, do you want to know who else is into Korean dramas? Tell me my father. Oh, yeah. Wait, what is he watching? I don't know. Whatever is on Netflix and Hulu. He's like, James, have you seen this? I was like, no, dad. Oh, my God. Well, tell him about Vincenzo. I'm sure he's watched it already. He watched it. Yeah.
00:01:58
Speaker
The ordinary Tory Wooz on Netflix, Vincenzo's on Netflix. Yeah. Yeah. I would have preferred it. Spend a little bit more time in the courtroom, but that's okay. That's okay. Um, there's just a seam between his mother, the mother and the son and just who boy. I don't know. It's, it's, it was just very funny when the man was like anime, huh? All right. And now I talked to him on the phone. He's like, Oh, this is great. Oh, it's the same damn thing. Dad. He's like, ah, it's different.
00:02:27
Speaker
Well, can you ask your father something, though? Is it just me or is like 10 percent of all these shows just in slow motion?
Tropes and Preferences in Korean Dramas
00:02:38
Speaker
Like just random times, it'll just go into slow motion. If someone opens a door, if they have a thought, if they're going somewhere, if they answer their phone, it's insane. And I'm wondering if this is a Korean drama thing. I've never seen such a high ratio. You see, have you watched Korean dramas, right? Yeah.
00:02:57
Speaker
Do they all use slow motion constantly? I mean, it's it's definitely common. It's wild. It depends on the show, though. I've literally been yelling at my TV to speed it up. It's so frustrating. There is a funny show called Drama World on Netflix. I think it was a Netflix original where it's about a girl who loves kdramas and then gets sucked into the world of kdramas.
00:03:25
Speaker
That sounds incredible. Yeah, it's it's very funny. I think very short, too. You said it's called Drama World. Yeah. And she's just like and she's this white girl that's just like, wait a minute, blah, blah, blah. Isn't supposed to go out with, you know, blah, blah, you know, with her. She should end up with, you know, ex other person. It's pretty funny. But it's old. And I'm actually not sure if it's still on Netflix anymore. I watched it a couple of years ago.
00:03:53
Speaker
Um, this sounds incredible. Well, I've only seen two. It started with the extraordinary attorney one and then this one. So I'm still a baby when it comes to K dramas. Um, but I also just like law ones. There's another one that is like an attorney one, but it's about like judges, like punishing delinquent children. It, it had a real weird vibe. So I didn't, I didn't watch that one. Oh, you know what? I'm lucking out drama world season two will come out. Oh.
00:04:24
Speaker
It should have come out already. It's not Netflix now. Anyways, Drama World's pretty fun. Andy, you'd like it. Now I'm going to have to watch it. You've got love of K-dramas. I'm all about those K-dramas. Well, I tried- I'm thinking about aging white men in K-dramas. I don't know.
00:04:44
Speaker
Maybe it is. Well, I'll say this. The thing that is, the thing that's appealed to me is number one, at least in the ones I've seen, they're like a longer format. Like they're normally like an hour, 10, hour, 20. So it like gives you enough time to sit in the story and enjoy it. And then also they're all about
00:05:04
Speaker
God, I don't know what it is. It's the twists and the turns. And it's just so it's just it's it's like it passed a story through like a machine and it knew exactly how to capture you over and over and over again. They're wonderful. They're wonderful. Thrilling even. I love it. I love it. Although I don't know if I'm going to watch more after Vincenzo. They they take up a lot of time. That's all I'm going to say. Well, you enjoyed every minute.
00:05:31
Speaker
I did. Well, no, not the slow motion parts. I genuinely did yell at my TV. I'm so frustrated with those slow motion parts. It's so annoying. Yeah, but that might be your saving grace. But Andy might have that problem. It doesn't have that problem. Last of us on HBO Max.
Adapting Video Games to TV
00:05:50
Speaker
I was just about to say, yeah, you're telling me there's no slow motion.
00:05:56
Speaker
No, no, I don't think so. I can't think of slow motion. It's only been two episodes so far. So I can't watch another thing of slow motion. How long are the episodes an hour, 10 hour and 20? They think they're meant to vary. But yeah, like the next episode is going to be an hour 20. Yeah, this is sounding like a K drama improved. Oh, yeah. With my two criteria.
00:06:19
Speaker
or at least I don't know who that is. I have no attachment to him. Yeah, that's OK. That's it. That actor does just play Ron from Parks and Right.
00:06:38
Speaker
I wonder who he's going to play. Well, hey, are you guys are really enjoying the show? Yeah. Oh, the show. The show is really good. And, you know, to be fair, right, people who have played The Last of Us can I think we could all agree this the last of a story is probably the best story to adapt to a show or film.
00:07:02
Speaker
Oh, sure. Yeah, I think it's an interesting point. I can't I'm trying to think of a video game that had a better story.
00:07:10
Speaker
Well, and like, plus they have good people. They they have Neil Druckmann, the original director of the. Yeah. And the guy who did Chernobyl, Craig Mason. And so good. Yeah. So and Craig was just like, yeah, you know, we thought it was very important for this and this and this. And it feels correct for the from the game without saying make it gamey. It is very good. You will. And everyone.
00:07:40
Speaker
You could just not you could not watch Last of Us and still find it great. I and I literally had a PowerPoint like presentation to my girlfriend as I watch it to be like, and this is where they took from this scene from the game. And this is how they did it. And it's still really good. I did that for like 20 minutes. The cool thing, too, is because like, and I've seen people talk about this in the game, you're literally playing as Joel and or Ellie at some points.
00:08:07
Speaker
Um, but this, because it's television, they can actually just completely switch away and tell a completely different story without it being weird. So you're getting all these little vignettes about things that are happening outside of like the Joel and Ellie sphere. And it's so good. Um, Charles, uh, Neil Druckmann said, um, later this season, there's going to be an adaptation of the story he wrote about Ellie's mother.
00:08:34
Speaker
Oh, that's exciting. Yeah. And it's it was supposed to be like a DLC or like a comic book, but it never got made. But they're like, oh, we could fit this perfectly into the television show. Oh, cool. Hmm.
00:08:45
Speaker
Listen, is there a scene where they're fighting with people and then he uses a shotgun and blows off someone's face and everyone stands up and applauds? Andy, let me tell you, without spoiling anything else, there was a comment I saw on Twitter that I really liked from another gaming person, personality, that was like,
00:09:08
Speaker
The TV show Last of Us proves that the canon way to play the game is to start out sneaking, getting caught, and then firing wildly at everything once you've been found. That's right. I remember throwing a lot of bricks and bottles.
00:09:25
Speaker
But, you know, yes, the last of us on HBO Max definitely recommend everybody watch it.
Gaming Glitches and Economic Impact
00:09:32
Speaker
Let me tell you guys about some really strange niche incident on the mobile gaming space. I need to hear this Charles. So, you know, gacha games, games where you roll for a chance to obtain rare characters or items and anything else.
00:09:48
Speaker
require a game currency in order to roll, basically, you know, to to have a chance to obtain the item. So like in a certain game, it's gems, you know, your candy crushes or whatever else or, you know, like you need 20 gems to pull and you have a chance to continue or whatever.
00:10:12
Speaker
Well, there's a couple ways that Gacha Games have you earn that currency. One of the various ways is, hey, press this, watch an ad for 30 seconds, and we'll give you a small amount of currency. Sure. Normally like 1, 200th or 1, 100th of a full pull to get items. And how much in like dollars would that be?
00:10:42
Speaker
So in this example that I have, Final Fantasy Brave Exvius War of the Visions or War of the Visions Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, which is just like a tactics game, right? Yep. After they have this system called the offer wall and working with a third party group,
00:11:06
Speaker
You basically can do tasks like a Fiverr job board. Sure. And in exchange, you will get game currency. Okay. For some reason, and like here's like, for instance, the size of reward would be...
00:11:23
Speaker
Um, go download AFK Arena and play a game. You will get 10 or 20, 30 gems. How interesting. Right. To do a 10 pull, it is 2000 gems. Okay. All right. To do one pull, it is 200 gems. Okay. There was seemingly a glitch that's been up for three days. Mm-hmm.
00:11:47
Speaker
that doing one task can give you up to 4,000 to 150,000 gems. Oh, no. And because the offer wall is ran by a third party and the task can involve real money transactions like go buy this thing. Like it's like the task are very varied and wild.
00:12:17
Speaker
It complicates what's happened with this issue with this current issue for the game because people Have heard about it and then have been getting Millions upon millions of game gems. Oh my god For the past couple days the game makers have only recently cut off the cut the link to that job wall offer wall and so
00:12:44
Speaker
The problem is this game relies on PVP.
00:12:49
Speaker
And with with suddenly millions of in game currency, players now have a chance to just throw money at all their problems in the game. If they don't have enough units, they could spend, you know, a fraction of what they just got to get all these strong, powerful units, get duplicates to power them up, do everything. They could throw money at the at their problems for the next like years.
00:13:16
Speaker
Wow, it like it is how they fix that. It's a very unique like issue that is and everyone. It was so for so long. Like how do you not catch that immediately? Well, I think because this offer wall is a third party that
00:13:37
Speaker
They didn't see the influx right away. Gotcha. And it's just like because these people don't get the gems instantly after they do a task. It has to get verified by the third party and then sends it over and likes because, you know, some of these tasks require you to have, you know, buy something.
00:13:55
Speaker
And maybe you send a receipt or do whatever, right? There's all these verification that's delayed and so it was up for a few days and then people got this windfall. And so now the question is, what do you do? Do you roll it back? Do you just ban everyone that tried to exploit it?
00:14:16
Speaker
Like how do you know and you know anybody exploited it like really? Because you know some people just do these every day without looking right if they did just the row they could make millions
00:14:29
Speaker
You introduce a new currency with a one-time transfer that has diminishing returns is probably the best way I can say to solve it. Well, my thought would be to actually follow inflation, which is flood the market with even more and then increase the cost of pulls to hundreds of thousands. Just make it like you had.
00:14:52
Speaker
Didn't this happen with like, oh, there was a couple like Neopets this happened with, right? And there was a there was another one. It was like an anime kind of game. I think it happened with MapleStory and like some other stuff where their economies go wild, but is flooding it with more money the answer?
00:15:12
Speaker
I mean, because the thing is, I don't know what's a good answer. I feel like because this third party is there, it's not very simple to just be like, take it back because people have put in real money for some of those tasks. Right. Like, who do you.
00:15:27
Speaker
Like I, I'm sure there's a way you could also just brute force it, right? And roll it back. But like, how do you, I was thinking just roll it back and then have like a forgiveness event. Like where, I don't know, you know, you, you level the playing field, but I don't know how any of this stuff works. But like you said, if real money was involved on this third party board, how do you take care of that? Yeah.
00:15:52
Speaker
Now, it's a very interesting problem. I just thought I've not seen a mobile gaming crisis in such a way because now anybody that was into PvP and spent money over a year is playing this game or just like, well, we're going to lose. We can't play anymore.
00:16:09
Speaker
Yeah, you just invalidated everything. Yeah, everything. Yeah, it's like any long term player is suddenly just can't win. They're just gone because they won't be able to make any units or have anything. That's so disheartening. Now, I think in Neopets, when they ran into stuff, they were able to target accounts that exploited it and they did various things.
00:16:35
Speaker
I mean, that depends on their internal tracking rate. Right, right, right. You'd have to have the metric. But I'm assuming they have the metric or at least they plug into report on, you know, the average user is getting X amount of crystals from third party actions like there's. Yeah, but you don't want to you don't want to piss off your whales, Andy. That's where you make your money.
00:16:56
Speaker
No, the whales are mad. No, but I'm saying right. But if you can't do anything by average because average, you want the way. Oh, oh, oh, oh, sorry. Oh, I yeah, I don't know what like data points they have. So Charles, with all of this, I'm assuming the the community is talking. Has Square said anything? So.
00:17:18
Speaker
Technically, Square is not the main developer for this game. It's another company called Goomy. So Goomy, and then is Goomy using a third party for the board as well, the Fiverr board? Yeah, it's called the offer wall. So not only is Goomy developing, but then Goomy is using someone else for the offer wall.
00:17:40
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So a third party of a third party. Oh my god. Yeah, it's uh, yeah, it's it's a it's pretty messy so It's an interesting problem. I just thought it was a Fun topic just because I I'm not sure like the
00:18:00
Speaker
I've not seen a mobile gacha game get into this type of crisis. This is wild. This is wild. This is terrible. Are there any other games that do this offer wall thing? Because this seems very new to me. I've seen a couple other games, but I don't think it's common. I think of all the times I play mobile games, I've seen only two others do an offer wall setup.
00:18:27
Speaker
Hmm. And I in for my part, I tend not to do them because I'm just like, I don't want to fill out a survey for. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's why. What's the consensus been on in the community, like on Reddit and stuff? I mean, or has there been any? I mean, there's been a large group of like PVP players that have been mad just trying to be like, you know, saying people with a lot of money
00:18:56
Speaker
a lot of this currency won't necessarily affect the immediate game over the next couple days. Sure. But as new characters get introduced, all those people with large amounts of currency will get all the new characters. And they will be able to get all the duplicates to power them up and do everything day one, because they'll have all the currency to spend it on it.
00:19:20
Speaker
Now, another question is there are people? Well, number one, have people come forward and said, yes, I exploited it and I have millions of crystals. Oh, people on the subway are just posting pictures of their stashes now. So then are people then defending that they keep it? Uh, that's it. I think they've been smart and not trying to say necessarily, Hey, keep it. They just say, look what I got. Sure.
00:19:49
Speaker
Because I would be I'd imagine, especially for the whales and everyone else, you would just be pissed if all these people got it for nothing. And then it turns into that thing is like, well, you gave it to me. You have to honor it. You know, like I'm curious. I'm curious if the community is supporting the people who exploited it or if there's like in fighting. I don't know. Yeah.
00:20:13
Speaker
I mean, yeah, in either case, it can't stand something has to happen. I don't know what the I feel like the developer for this game is going to have to come up with some agreement with the third party offer wall and be like, give us the data about the people who spent money. Yes. And, you know, and then come up with an answer from there. Yeah. There's people who spent, you know, actual money from that offer wall and then to them, whatever legal things they have to sign up for it. I don't know.
00:20:42
Speaker
Are people leaving the game because of it? There's I mean, there's there's people saying they're going to leave the game, but, you know, they always say that. Yeah. Hey, that worked with. Well, I think that's a topic we'll have later to transition into. But that worked with OGL. Enough people leave. Yeah. But, you know, I'll let you know, everybody, I'll keep an eye on it. I'll tell you about what happens when a mobile game suddenly no longer has a premium currency to hold over their users.
00:21:14
Speaker
I think this is fascinating. Another delightful excursion into Charles's casino corner. Casino corner. I think that's the perfect description. Charles knows how to play behind. A predictable life is boring, everybody. Sometimes, listen, the field bet is not a safe bet, but it's a fun bet.
00:21:40
Speaker
Wait, Charles, do you feel comfortable enough to say if you exploited it? Uh, I will tell you if I, if I had known about it, I would have exploited the hell out of it. Charles is no shame. Andy, what are you talking about? I don't know. What if you have cloud? I don't know. Uh, like, well, the thing is everybody, I need you to understand.
00:22:01
Speaker
I have an immigrant mentality. You have to use every advantage you get. I get it. I hear it. Take everything you can because no one will give it to you. Truth. Well, thank you. Thank you. Charles from Casino Corner keeping plugged in.
00:22:24
Speaker
Keep us up to date. Well, I think. Well, yeah. So let's talk.
Controversy Over Open Game License Changes
00:22:29
Speaker
Let's let's transition then from one game completely screwing itself to another game completely screwing. Yes. And well, I mean, maybe we'll see. Probably still.
00:22:43
Speaker
We talked a little about this last week, the end of the draft with the coast. Was it the coast? I has bro. Really just kind of stepped in it. Yeah. They're like the first story in the year. Good for them. So if you may or may not have heard about this, Wizards of the Coast are the purveyor of Dungeons and Dragons, the official tabletop. Was it T.T. RPG game? Yeah. This is it's the one everyone thinks of when you play Dungeons and Dragons. Right.
00:23:13
Speaker
So what goes on with this is that they created an open game license way back when, like 20 years ago, 20 years ago. That's right. And that open game light, the open game license allows third parties to create written projects such as adventures rule or rule books using the D&D system owned by Wizards of the Coast.
00:23:41
Speaker
and basically profit off them. So more or less like you can't take the book rules they have and just reprint them and get money. But if you want to create like an errata where you have like a bunch of like custom character classes or custom setting and all that, you can print that and be like this works with D&D 5e because
00:24:00
Speaker
Or not fight I mean anyone because this originally started in like 2000 so that would have been 3.5 I think right I think it was 3.5 they built out and actually as I understand it caused a lot of problems when it came out because a lot of people released stuff and Then like the market kind of crashed and then it equalized and ended up being a very good thing. Yeah, I
00:24:20
Speaker
It's an end of being able to license, uh, fan fiction and just be like, I'll sell it. It's just actually like doujins. Uh, yeah. The, uh, doujins being Japanese comic fan fiction. Mm-hmm.
00:24:36
Speaker
Mm hmm. Which is huge in Japan if you're not familiar with it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And this also made for things with like video games and things like that to use Dungeons and Dragons systems and stuff like that. So it kind of helped propel Dungeons and Dragons further into the zeitgeist rate. And one of the things, too, is that this will never be here. Revoked was written in the open game license basically saying we're doing this and we will never take it back. Mm hmm.
00:25:06
Speaker
Except, uh, this January, uh, at the beginning of January 23, a revised version of the OGL was apparently leaked to, uh, Linda Cadega at IO nine. Um, the time of the leak, basically the new OGL went invalidated the original OGL, meaning it could no longer be used. Um, stopped any D and D related NFTs and POC chains, which honestly, that's not a bad thing. Uh,
00:25:33
Speaker
allowed termination of license for content that is blatantly racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic business, otherwise discriminatory, also not evil, but still, stated that D&D publisher Wizards of the Coast must be notified about and receive any report on earnings of all monetized content, basically going, hey, we made this much money off it, and D&D goes, that's not enough.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah, you can be fine. You made how much? Oh, well, all right. And this is to the next point, which is projects using the OGL, which earn over seven hundred fifty thousand dollars per year must pay wizard royalty fee of twenty five percent, which is a ridiculous surface fee.
00:26:17
Speaker
Uh, or 20% if funded through Kickstarter for all income beyond that point. So you get your first, uh, three quarters of a mil free. But after that wizard wants it to cut. Um, and then wizard also gets a right to use all the content you write in any way they want in perpetuity. Um, that's a little more restrictive than the original OGL.
00:26:44
Speaker
Um, this led I'm reading this article from games radar, by the way. Um, this led to widespread controversy, which industry figures to cry at the change in over six, 60,000 people have signed an open letter condemning these alterations. A major dev then decided to break away from D and D creates own tabletop RPG pathfinder.
00:27:02
Speaker
publisher Paizo announced a new open game license that they will try to get going to to help do this. Pathfinder is kind of like a I don't want to say a companion system to Dungeons and Dragons. It's basically kind of like a fork, right? There are a bunch of people took the idea of Dungeons and Dragons. They're original members of the Wizards of Coast team and went, hey, we're going to implement this system with all the things we want to do. And that's how we got Pathfinder.
00:27:30
Speaker
which is good or bad, depending on how you feel about Pathfinder. Um, and a lot of people were so mad about this, they canceled their, uh, D and D beyond subscriptions. So many so that it crashed the page. Oops.
00:27:48
Speaker
This also came earlier from earnings reports where Hasbro said that the Dungeons and Dragons sector of Wizards of the Coast was under monetized. Yeah. There haven't been any statements from, well, there was a statement from Critical Role.
00:28:09
Speaker
Yeah, very, yeah, very, very vague. Also dimension. Yeah. Dimension 20. But to be fair, to both dimension 20 and critical role, they probably have contract and license deals, the Wizards of the coast. And it's kind of hard to just suddenly go out and start shitting on them when you have large contracts with them that probably validate many people's livelihoods. But I understand now here. The one thing I thought was interesting about that was
00:28:38
Speaker
with Acquisitions Incorporated, which also was able to get a book published through Wizards with their own change. One of the co-founders, Tyco, which is Jerry Hawkins, was talking about how for their games that they do at PAX, which is one of the more like what do you call it, like big tent events during the convention?
00:29:05
Speaker
is like one of the most popular events that happens and Wizards doesn't pay them for it. Like there's no like things about it. And so they are very publicly decrying the whole decision and saying it is very stupid and bad. So I am interested in to know what type of contracts like groups like guys from Dimension 20 or Critical Role have on like what they can and cannot say.
00:29:35
Speaker
Yeah, that could be. Is D&D like an official sponsor of Critical Role? I feel like they work very closely together. I mean, like they critical roles campaign got published with D&D. I don't know what else they do. Sure. I guess I wouldn't. Yeah, I'm sure that statement went through a couple attorneys just to make sure they don't burn bridges. I remember reading something that like people were like, if you read between the lines,
00:30:04
Speaker
They are super brave. I'm like, I'd whatever. You could read between the lines. I would not. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, no, no, now you're just looking for stuff. They didn't they didn't stand up to or to wizard. So whatever.
00:30:22
Speaker
But like you said, James, so many people canceled that it brought down the cancellation whatever page. As I understand, they actually removed the link to navigate to it on the site. I was reading a little bit into that. And then Wizards retracted. Well, the
00:30:46
Speaker
They kind of retracted. Sure. To be fair, they never released the OGL. This was a link or this was a leak. Excuse me. But but the the draft that they sent out to all these different third parties, they included something for them to sign to agree to it. That's true, too. So it wasn't that it was necessarily a draft. They were asking people to agree to it. Yeah, not their input.
00:31:13
Speaker
Um, yeah, in wizards recanted version of the OGL soon followed the new OGL saying, uh, will not contain any royalty structure or royalty fees. Does not include financial reporting or registration requirements. Clarifies the creators own their content. States that anything already released in the original OGL is unaffected. Says that live stream virtual table tops and actual place aren't affected. That was also another thing we glossed over things like roll 20 and a virtual tabletop forge.
00:31:41
Speaker
also are dependent on that OGL to work as well. And I'm sure that's the reason they did this, was to make money. So they literally lost the reason they did this. Yeah. I can't remember. I don't have it in front of me. They had a very halfhearted kind of statement basically saying where it's like, you know, I'm glad that we could both come to this agreement and we get both what we wanted out of it. Hold on, Jane. No, I got it. It seared into my soul.
00:32:13
Speaker
Yeah, find it for the end of this response from from Wizards. Yeah, they came back and said That's it a couple of last thoughts first We won't be able to release the new OGL today because we need to make sure we get it right but it is coming Second you're going to hear people say that they went They won and we lost because making your voices heard or forced us to change our plans Those people will only be half right they won and so did we
00:32:46
Speaker
Like, what are you trying to say? And that was the end of their fucking response. Like, why would you even add that stupid line to be like, Oh, by the way, guys, it's not that you were right. Okay. We were right. All of us together. I say, I say you guys that tick tock, which was the, uh, the after credit scene from, uh, Ragnarok Jeff Goldblum's character is like, Hey, I'm glad I could be a part of this revolution. You can't have a revolution without somebody to overthrow.
00:32:58
Speaker
All right.
00:33:18
Speaker
I literally can't imagine the tone deafness to produce that. Did they think they were doing something? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But they had to release another statement because that one was so bad.
00:33:39
Speaker
And the next one actually I think is a little bit better. Not that it saves anything, but it's just like why didn't you send this one to begin with? Did they gag the person over the writer's shoulder finally? I don't.
00:33:54
Speaker
People away from the writers. Yeah, maybe, maybe. But they basically just they did the whole thing is like, we care about the game as much as you do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was just a draft. It was just a draft. But we're going to put the OGL into play testing. So now they're going to be revising it and asking people to review it and submit feedback. And I think in their original one, they're like, that was our plan all along, which was a
00:34:23
Speaker
thousand percent lie. So but now they're doing it. So we'll see where it goes. I do not know if it's enough to win people back.
00:34:33
Speaker
I don't know. I would say to that. Yeah, Hasbro. This is not the only vertical that Hasbro has been cracking down on.
Hasbro's Monetization Strategies
00:34:43
Speaker
I follow several people who are Transformers fans and specifically collect like Transformers, which McCall not models. They're not action figures either. I mean, really, that you want to call them action figures? Yeah, I don't. Right. And figurines might be the best way to.
00:35:03
Speaker
I don't know what you'd necessarily call them. Either way, they collect transformers and the quality of the transformers and the prices for the transformers have been steadily going up over the past couple of years, irrespective of all the supply side issues and things like that. Hasbro is really clamping down on squeezing money from all their nerd properties.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's pretty bad. And a friend that I have it because Hasbro does Star Wars, too, right? Correct. They've been really messing with the collector's market in terms of like, I don't know, they're just releasing so much so frequently and so many variants. And now they're also releasing their products and they are in packaging with like no windows on it. So you can't see what the quality is of it.
00:35:52
Speaker
And so quality control has gone down, so you're having things released with, like, poorly printed faces and, like, damage and stuff. And you're just flooding the market so much that just, like, everybody's falling behind and it's completely blowing everything up. They got really greedy. They're doing, like, the rock band thing or whatever it was where you just keep releasing more and more and more and more and more and now everybody's getting sick of it.
00:36:18
Speaker
So you two would know this better than I am. But I feel like I've heard some rubblings, too, that the pricing for magic has been going poorly lately. The past couple of years, James, let me tell you, I quit magic. Like, oh, I don't think I knew that that you actually quit magic. I thought you just were like, I am. That's it. Exploring others. Couple of years. Yeah, that's it. Quit magic.
00:36:46
Speaker
The problems are still the same. They have increased the number of sets that release every time. They create a lot of collectible specialty sets and product releases.
00:36:59
Speaker
And then their secret layer where they do like limited edition alternate art types of releases on cards that are still playable that have already been printed before. They come out, they cost hundreds of dollars for four cards or three cards or one card.
00:37:18
Speaker
because that's how they want to make money. The current controversy with Magic right now or from this year was the Magic 30 collection where they charge an exorbitant amount of money for cards with a different Magda gathering back, which essentially makes it not tournament legal and they still charge hundreds of dollars for. No, it's been pretty bad and a lot of people are mad all over.
00:37:49
Speaker
Yeah, so I don't know. And I mean, I decided this back to D&D too. People are like, oh, this OGL, the new OGL is better, right?
00:37:57
Speaker
They've basically expressed that, yeah, we can release this one, but then in five years, we can just release another one and change all these things. And maybe we won't listen to you next time. Mm hmm. So you want to know what's in the magic 30th anniversary collection? Thirteen illuminate me. Thirteen modern frame cards, one rare, three uncommon, seven common, two basic lands, two retro frame cards, one card of any rarity with a 30 percent chance of rare, one basic land.
00:38:25
Speaker
And then one token with the limited edition alpha art with the non-legal card back. How much James do you think that would cost? 120.
00:38:37
Speaker
$1,000. Holy shit. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Why? It's not even it's not even tournament legal. Yeah, you can't even play them and it's randomized. It's it's a booster pack. It's a booster pack. I was I was comparing it to like elite trainer boxes and Pokemon cards and those usually run like 120 to 200 dollars. Yeah.
00:39:04
Speaker
one booster pack, random cards, $1,000. Jesus fucking Christ.
00:39:10
Speaker
And then I read some, yeah, it's a whole mess. It's a whole mess. I read something that, so it's obviously such an enormously bad deal, like in a slap in the face, but they sold out very, very quickly. And I was reading a thing about how it does, it might not even be fans that actually bought it, but scalpers who bought it, relisted it and no one's buying it.
00:39:40
Speaker
And so just like they've completely screwed themselves over. But Wizards doesn't care. They got their money. But nobody wants to. This is the same thing as the graphic card crypto mining pipeline, which is the.
00:39:59
Speaker
the car, you know, the cars are specifically for one thing, like, you know, playing games or for fans. Right. But there's the secondary market that will pay in exorbitant amounts for it. So the company just slowly starts going, you know what? Maybe we can just kind of leverage that market a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the funny joke about the entire thing with magic is that Wizards of the Coast was has still never fully acknowledged the secondary market.
00:40:29
Speaker
Like. Anyways, I could I could come up with an entirely new podcast just to talk about. Well, how much I hate Hasbro, who owns Wizards and has been squeezing their golden gooses. Yeah, you got to get that bag. Well, let's move on from one dying game to a dead game. Oh.
Marvel's Avengers Game Ends
00:40:59
Speaker
That's right, baby. Marvel's adventures is disassembling as everyone was running to type as soon as they heard the news. The second they heard that news, it's like, I got a headline. I got it. They probably had that headline for about a year. Oh, yeah.
00:41:21
Speaker
and a statement posted January 20th to our amazing community after two and a half years and introducing 12 of Earth's Mightiest Heroes following update 2.8 on March 31st. We will no longer add new content or features to Marvel's Avenger. All official support for the game will end on September 30th, 2023. Even after official support ceases on September 30th, both single and multiplayer gameplay will continue to be available. See below for more information.
00:41:50
Speaker
update 2.7 which added the winter soldier hero and cloning lab omega level threat is the last new content to be added to the game no new cosmetics are coming to the market cosmetics are coming to the marketplace and all final balance updates will occur in the mark update 2.8 patch in March
00:42:06
Speaker
Along with the end of development, we'll also be turning off the Cosmetics Marketplace. When Update 2.8 launches on March 31, credits will no longer be purchasable, and all remaining credit balances will be converted to in-game resources to aid ongoing adventures.
00:42:22
Speaker
Uh, as a show of our appreciation to the community starting March 31st, we will make all the games marketplace challenge card and shipment cosmetic content available to all players for free. Every single outfit, take down a moat and nameplate for the marketplace. Challenge cards and shipments will be free to all players from this date onwards. If you own a copy of the game.
00:42:41
Speaker
We know this disappointing news to everyone in our community. It has such a connection to these characters and their stories. We're so, so grateful that you came with us on this adventure. Your excitement for Marvel's Avengers, from your epic photo mode shots to your threads for you, theorizing who the next heroes would be to your Twitch streams has played a large part in bringing this game to life. We hope you continue to play and enjoy Marvel's Avengers. We can't thank you enough for your support and for being part of our super team. Yeah.
00:43:10
Speaker
I famously convinced Charles to buy Marvel's Avengers. I still hold that is a really good single player story, and it just got bogged down by trying to become a games as a service.
00:43:30
Speaker
I'm very curious what the game's going to be like when they I didn't see it in here, but I saw something where like time gating and all that shit's going to be removed as well. So I'm really curious what the experience is going to be like for this game when it's just like just to have everything. I wonder if it'll be like Marvel's Midnight Suns, which Charles and I have been playing and really feels like it was designed to be a games as a service game. And then they saw the writing on the wall from Avengers and went, why don't we just release this and not get the backlash?
00:44:01
Speaker
Yeah. Good idea. Don't fuck around. Yeah. So another games service died. It didn't go as quickly as Babylon's fall, which I think is our current champion for fast. Hold a record. Yeah.
00:44:17
Speaker
But yeah, it's I mean, I don't know. It was definitely they never really kind of recovered from that launch with all the bugs. And then it just couldn't get content out fast enough, which I think is really the curse of like a lot of these games as a service. Like we're going to make games as a service. OK. And when's your second content patch is going to be after release? Maybe six to eight months. It's like, no, that doesn't work. That doesn't work.
00:44:45
Speaker
See, that's the interesting part, right? I don't think companies fully understand what it really means to be a games as a service. And surprisingly, despite what we talked about earlier, mobile gacha games know how to do games as a service with their content drops and how they put things out.
00:45:10
Speaker
They're damn near weekly for some games, aren't they, Charles? Yep. It's on a timer. Genshin Impact, every three weeks, there's a new update. And there's all these events that give you free currency and do all this stuff. In Fire Emblem Heroes, there is two to three events that happen every month. And then four new drops of heroes that come in in a month, so one every week-ish.
00:45:40
Speaker
timeframe. That's it. It's fairly frequent, like, because they want you in there and spending money and doing stuff while playing. Yeah. And yes, I understand the platform console games, they are harder to develop for you can't just do something. But that's why you don't release until you know you have this stable backlog of content coming. Because like you said, James, right?
00:46:08
Speaker
Marvel Avengers came out and then like, was it like two to three months, four months? Oh, it was more. It was more. It was because they had to spend the first three to four months fixing the game, right? Because it was buggy. Yep. That's wild. Just wild. It's these games are so ambitious and yet like so like have like unearned confidence. It's just weird.
00:46:34
Speaker
Just weird. I mean, if all the games have unearned confidence, a Marvel game probably is the most reasonable one. Will Suicide Squad be the next failure? We'll see. Oh.
00:46:49
Speaker
Um, I don't know. Did we talk about that? Um, a leaked image of Suicide Squad killed the Justice League came out and it, it really seemed games as a service. Um, which would be new for Rocksteady. I don't know. Um, I ha I trust Rocksteady, but then I also trusted crystal dynamics. So we'll see. Uh, where are we on time?
00:47:12
Speaker
We're pretty long in the tooth, actually, I think. Yeah, we're at 48 minutes. So much important. Yeah. Well, I think so. Let's maybe kind of just gloss over these last three or maybe the last two. We'll see if we get to the last one. As you may or may not be aware,
00:47:33
Speaker
The tech industry is just cutting jobs, left and right. And Microsoft was no exclusion to that.
Challenges Facing the Halo Franchise
00:47:42
Speaker
And they cut a large amount of their gaming staff, specifically from 343 Industries and from Bethesda too, actually. I didn't hear too much about where it came from, Bethesda. I have to imagine it was from the Fallout 76 team.
00:47:59
Speaker
Yeah, they need to take those guys out back. Yeah. Holy cannoli. And I wonder, too, that mass effect one, maybe they cut people from that. That would be a mass effect is, you know, the not what it was a star or something. Stars to our field. Yeah. Starfield. Oh, yeah. Starfield. Wasn't that Bethesda? Yes, but that's not out yet. They're not going to cut people from an unreleased project. Oh, they're going to.
00:48:27
Speaker
Well, who knows? They had 10,000 jobs, I guess all over all of Microsoft. This led to a lot of interesting conversation of like, wait, so what's going on? If you cut like a large part of 343, are you just gutting 343? Is it not going to be creating Halo anymore? Because Infinite did not land well. Again, games as a service failure.
00:48:48
Speaker
did not have the content to really like, it did not have the content needed when it came out. It's a great game. It's a lot of fun. There was nothing to do one month after the game was out. And it didn't have co-op, which they kept promising. Still don't have co-op. What? Yeah. Yeah. And again, too, right? That's that weird thing, right? Last year, Halo Infinite, right? Or like end early of late last, late two years ago, I guess. Right. Halo Infinite.
00:49:17
Speaker
And it didn't make any less. People did not talk about that game for a fucking game of the year or anything. It's like, oh, God. They had no accolades to it. And it's a flagship game. Yeah. Like, it's crazy. Yeah. I really I definitely was like, yeah, three, four, three probably shouldn't.
00:49:37
Speaker
Um, and he got, there was enough comments about this in the news and rumor mill that three for three actually had to come out and release this statement. Um, halo and master chief are here to stay three, four, three industries will continue to develop halo now and in the future, including Epic stories, multiplayer, and more of what makes halo great. Uh, Pierre Heinz, I think heinz, I don't know, studio head. Um,
00:50:02
Speaker
It's never a good thing when you have to come out with the tweet saying, no, no, no, no, no, we're still making it. Oh, that's just. Just sad, honestly. Also, a lot of dirty laundry is obviously coming out with these. I mean, that's, again, not unique to Microsoft. But, you know, when you lay off a bunch of people,
00:50:28
Speaker
Oh, they laid off people from the coalition, too. How interesting. I didn't know that. But you get people talking about what went on there.
00:50:38
Speaker
Um, and you have some people, former developers going talking about kind of the shit that happened and in compliment, uh, incompetent management at three, four, three and Microsoft. Um, just some quotes from the top, the layoffs, the three, four, three shouldn't have happened. Hail infinite should be in a better state. The reason for both those things is a competent leadership up top during hail, infinite development, causing massive stress on those working hard to make hail the best it can be.
00:51:03
Speaker
Next quote, the people I worked with every day were passionate about Halo and wanted to make something great for the fans. They helped push for Halo and got laid off for it. Devs still there working hard on that dream. Looking forward, we kind of during this awful time. It's interesting.
00:51:24
Speaker
As a Halo fan, I'm really tired of Microsoft business practices and policies slowly killing the thing I love. Between the contracting policies, they abuse for tax incentives and layoffs in the face of taking a profits executive post. They set Halo for failure. Oh, by the way,
00:51:38
Speaker
Um, uh, one thing that came out to Microsoft laid out 10,000 people. Um, the day before they announced those layoffs, they had a private concert with sting for their top level executives. Oh my God. No, it's like, man, you guys little optics. Wow. Hmm.
00:52:02
Speaker
Oh, I just knew that like one of the guys, I don't know if it's the CEO or whatever, but he was like paid like over 25 million last year. It's just like these guys get millions and millions for firing people. It's wild. It's wild. There's no such thing as an ethical billionaire, Andy. Who's the guy that we all love, Iwata?
00:52:28
Speaker
Didn't he was not a billionaire. OK, I figured he wasn't a billionaire. I remember I think he went down to like a dollar salary or whatever. I mean, a lot of them do that because they leverage stocks and all that. But did he want to do it? I guess I think a water famously. Yeah, that was like a lot of famously took like a big pay cut. Yeah, maybe it was just a pay cut. Maybe it wasn't a dollar. Yeah, it wasn't it like when.
00:52:53
Speaker
I think it was the one that we bombed. Yeah. Yeah, it was the way you in order to keep everybody. He he took the pay cut. Right. I think that was it. Which I thought was. Yeah, because I don't think they fired anybody as least as far as I understand or the story goes. I don't you generally don't hear a ton of layoffs from Nintendo. It's definitely happened. Yeah. On so much cash that if they're starting to fire people, it's like you have so much money, liquid money.
00:53:23
Speaker
Um, but yeah, you want, it was a good one. Um, also just to talk about content drought, um, hail infinite. Next big update is season three echoes within the coming of March this year. So it launched November, 2021. Wait, when did it launch? Wow. It's been that long. Right? How long is that?
00:53:48
Speaker
Yeah. Bill infinite is a 2021. So launched November, 2021, March, 2020, 2022 season two started. And now one year later, season three is starting. I just don't understand.
00:54:04
Speaker
I just don't understand. You can't. You can't do it. You got to you got to be better. Yeah, I mean, that's that's so easy for us to say. Right. And but it's just it's just also like I think we're not talking to the developers to be like, just be content faster. Right. Right.
00:54:22
Speaker
We're talking to management and be like, understand what you're signing up for. Yes. Yes. Yes. And you know, I'm sure all these people are overworked and nothing is shown for it. Right. Nothing is being shown for it, which is just so God, that's got to be like so disheartening to be within the company and be trashed on all the time for not getting anything out. Yet you're working your butt off for it. And it's just management. It's just management screwing everyone over.
00:54:52
Speaker
I don't know. It's all messed up. It is. And 343 is still going to be working on it, apparently. I'm surprised. I'm surprised. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. And this just shows my my brittle heart. Right. I just don't have the commitment. Mm hmm.
00:55:09
Speaker
If I felt like I would work for years on a property and it's bombed this bad, I'd leave. I'd be like, nope, all right, I can't do this one. Well, Halo 3 was the last good. Well, no, Reach. Reach was the last one. Reach was really good. Was Reach Bungie still? That was the last one.
00:55:36
Speaker
So 343 hasn't made any good ones. Five, six and infinite. Yeah. Oh, guys, guys. But hasn't the world grown up a bit too? Like haven't we moved away from the Halo formula? A little bit, but doesn't mean you can't do it well. I thought that was like infinite goal was to like update and modernize what Halo is. I mean, here's the real talk. Mm hmm.
00:56:04
Speaker
Why didn't they just release a battle royale? Just fucking do it. They're like, no, we're not going to do it. If you did it, they would be fine. Yeah. I don't know why like it. They definitely they could have done it so easily. Yeah. But whatever. Bad decisions. Whatever. Yeah. Didn't like for Fortnite.
00:56:27
Speaker
It seemed like it was almost overnight that they just decided to try the Battle Royale thing. Like it came out of nowhere. Yeah. It was like just a simple little thing to do. Yeah. I would say I was I was in the room actually in Seattle when Cliffy B unveiled Fortnite while it was still the tower defense game.
00:56:50
Speaker
Yeah, everybody looked at it and went, that's a terrible game. Oh, I think we're all excited by. Oh, I was excited. I was like, it was fun. Oh, like the single player. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the multiplayer to the base building. Yeah. We like. Let's see. And boy, yes. Yeah. The base building was. Yeah. The base building was interesting. I don't know. It seemed kind of throw. It seemed more a tech demo when I. But maybe that's just revisionist history in my mind.
00:57:16
Speaker
Um, but I, I guess the point I was trying to make was not original Fortnite. I'm talking about like it released and everybody was playing it and like, it was a big deal. And then just randomly, they just released battle rail just randomly. And then boom, it exploded. I'm saying all this just to say three, four, three, like, come on. Like, I feel like can't be that hard. I'm not saying it's not, I'm not saying it's easy, but come on, just do something.
00:57:43
Speaker
Make a goofy fun mode and then build from there, just to get yourself in the news again and people caring. I mean, to be fair, Battlefield made a better rail mode that fell flat on its face. Wait, really? Yeah, it was in the World War I one, I think. Oh, I didn't realize. Yeah, nobody liked it. But like for Fortnite, they didn't even change that much.
00:58:09
Speaker
Well, I mean, when Fortnite came out, there was two games. It was, it was pub G and what was the other one? There was more hunger games. Like, do you remember what it was Charles? No, there was another hunger games. You said more. Yeah. Were you like, ah, God damn it. Yeah.
00:58:32
Speaker
I don't know. I don't I don't know. I only remember two modes Well, it only released as one and then it released though I was just trying to say it seemed like they did it haphazardly. Just give it a try you guys. Come on H1Z1. Oh Yeah, okay zombie one was pretty fun. Yeah Well was H1Z1 and there was there was also another one that I'm thinking of too but
00:59:00
Speaker
I mean, they both came off of ARMA, right? The ARMA game? Yes, it started in ARMA. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, either case, I think 343 has really dropped the ball. If I were off, I would just be like, we need to give this to somebody else. You've had 10 years.
00:59:25
Speaker
I think it would even get more attention if they gave it to someone else. Like it just, I think everybody else would be excited too. All right. Oh, well. Oh, well. Yeah.
Mixed Reviews for 'Forspoken'
00:59:40
Speaker
Four spoken reviews are out. They're not good. Yeah, it seems like it's pretty middling. It is another one of those games where
00:59:51
Speaker
Nothing's bad. Nothing's good either. Some things are maybe a little bit. But, yeah, just something where the sum of it's like the parkour, the magic are fun, but just everything around it, not fun. So it just kind of evens out to being in my game. That's too bad. And, you know, we all dodged a bullet. None of us have first spoken.
01:00:20
Speaker
And you're sitting on a sweet negative one in our other league. Yeah, I was really hoping for this game to be good, honestly. I mean, I would I was hoping it'd be good, too, right? As it features a woman, a woman of color. That's it. And being isekai to to a fantasy world and the park. She doesn't have a hairy face, am I right?
01:00:46
Speaker
Uh, let me just fix that up. Um, you know, it seemed like, okay, you can make something good out of that. That'd be fun. And then they just couldn't make it. They, I don't know. People just weren't creative. They stopped.
01:01:04
Speaker
Maybe it was because she was a woman. And they were like, I don't know. What's their motivation? I don't know how to write them. That's what worries me, though, is that and I don't know. This is from the outside looking in, right? But it's like when things like this happen, like a game fails, but the game stars a woman and especially a woman of color. Does that mean these publishers think, oh, people don't want games that star women of color? I really hope not, because that's that's my worry is that they'll think that instead of no, we made a bad game.
01:01:34
Speaker
but they'll think like oh no no no it's not that it's that it's start a woman of color i think that's my fear i think that's been the common um fear from consumers right especially when when talking about representation and everything else it's like if this doesn't get supported do does it close the door on future projects right you know um i don't know
01:01:57
Speaker
I guess there's no way we can really control, control that. Yeah. You know, these higher ups that make their decisions and their ivory towers. I haven't seen, though, like any reaction from like the right, though, calling the game like woke and all that stuff. So it's not. They're too busy fighting about the green M&M shoes. Yeah, that's true. Or Xbox's eco settings, you know. Yeah.
01:02:24
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, my God. If you don't know, the conservative media is upset that the green M&M wears regular shoes and not sexy high heels. Not an exaggeration. I never noticed she wore it, by the way. I had no clue that happened. Yeah. And I was like, oh, OK, fine. These were shoes. And then they got mad at M&Ms.
01:02:55
Speaker
Yeah, the right, the right did. Yeah. Why? I don't know. And one last... Yeah, sorry. Oh, that's all right. And one last little fun story before we close it out. In our political environment of classified documents being found everywhere. Yeah.
Security Concerns in Gaming Forums
01:03:14
Speaker
I think they've got some in what's-his-face, guy-based women. Okay, yeah.
01:03:19
Speaker
It is an article popped up. It is once again been zero days since a war thunder player used military documents to win a Thor forum If you're not familiar war thunder is a military
01:03:37
Speaker
MMO game is basically, you know, a lot of it's, it's kind of a simulation game. Um, and a lot of times people plays are military people because they like playing these kinds of games and then they get into fights on the official forums and they'll get into fights like that's not how this works. It should work like this. And then someone will come in and bring in fucking military documentation. Here's the spec. This is how it's supposed to work.
01:04:05
Speaker
I love it. I love it. I love it a lot. It's I love this quote from the article. What's more, the poster in question tried to argue that the documents didn't break the forum's rules, completely ignorant of the fact that he broke State Department and military rules instead. A fighter jet that is apparently still an active service. How did they get them?
01:04:33
Speaker
because they work in the military. Oh, my God. It's like you can't be that dumb. Yes, we can. And this happened, I think, in World of Tanks. This also happened a couple of times where military players were like, no, no, no, no. Here's the spec for these tanks. This is I believe you'd release that. That is just wild to me. Forum trolls, Andy, are going to troll. Oh, my God.
01:05:01
Speaker
Oh, it's incredible, guys. We have to understand what a lighthearted story to end our night about being proved to show somebody that you're right. You know, I mean, I wonder how many people read that and like we're impressed. Like, I wonder if that guy has sorry to say, I wonder if that person has clout on the forum. Listen, he has a badge now. OK, he's just known as Leaker. They've got to have a badge for it now.
01:05:31
Speaker
Maybe they do. Well, we'll have to find out what other classified documents of military weaponry has been leaked online in another episode of Add to Party, a friendship simulator masquerading as a news show. I've been your host, James Reformed Forum Troll Hartwell, and I've been joined by
01:05:53
Speaker
Charles waiting for the release of Sephiroth in War Final Fantasy War The Visions. You should have gotten two months. You might. And I've been joined by Andy. OK, drama fan, new fan. I don't know. OK. I like Kdrama K. I think Kdrama K, Andy Kdrama K.
01:06:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's a sweet one, Andy. You keep on. I'm going to keep on that. I don't. I cannot watch another one after the show, though. They're just fine. Fine. Wherever drama world is streaming now because you'll you'll enjoy it. Yeah. If I can pick up the tropes now, probably. Oh, it's on. It's on Amazon Prime now. Oh, there we go. Do a drum roll on Amazon Prime. Have a good night. Have a good night.