Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Nos Audietis Mailbag: Why players are protesting Club World Cup bonuses
439 Plays8 days ago
Jeremiah and Aaron are back with another mailbag episode, answering questions that were submitted in May. Before they dig into some of those questions, though, they spend quite a bit of time discussing the Sounders players’ recent protest over their share of Club World Cup bonuses and specifically owner Adrian Hanauer’s response.
As a reminder, all these questions came from our private Discord, which is available to all subscribers at the Supporter ($75/year) level or above. If you’d like to upgrade your membership, you can do so here. If you’re already a Supporter or above and want to join the Discord, shoot us an email.
Sponsor
🍷 Full Pull Wines: Love wine but not wine clubs? Check out the boutique wine seller who lets you browse their selections and pick whatever you want. You can join their mailing list here: https://fullpullwines.com/signup.php
***
Nos Audietis is the flagship podcast for Sounder at Heart, which became a reader-supported website on Aug. 21. You can support us by becoming a paid subscriber, learn more here. You can also watch many of their shows on YouTube.
Aside from becoming a Sounder at Heart subscriber, you can also support the show by using this link to purchase MLS Season Pass or checking out our merch table to buy various shirt designs.
“Diversions” audio provided by Sounder at Heart subscriber Lars; find more of their music here.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Recognition
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go. Come
Seattle Sounders' MLS Cup Victory
00:00:12
Speaker
on. Hey, O'Shaughnessy.
00:00:14
Speaker
Let's go. What save by Frye. The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winning. Here comes Ruiz Dias through the middle to crowd it for Seattle.
00:00:29
Speaker
And now they truly can start the celebrations. It's the Sounders MLS Cup. Nico leaves absolutely no doubt. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Seattle, Sounders, it's got built.
00:00:52
Speaker
This feels fucking awesome. This is a tiny dog. Nice work on your little yacht yat thing. And Portland can't say shit. know, what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't?
00:01:06
Speaker
Ever since Southert Hart wrote a commentary that we didn't take over coming seriously. Go, not Seattle!
Sponsor Shoutout: Full Pull Wines
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Nos Adientes, part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network, sponsored by Full Pull Wines, Hacks and Ferments, and our subscribers. We're recording on Tuesday, June 3rd, 2025.
Meet the Hosts
00:01:54
Speaker
I am your host, Jeremiah Shan.
00:01:56
Speaker
Joining me today is my co-host, Aaron Campo, and our producer, Lick It.
Mailbag Session Introduction
00:02:00
Speaker
Well, Aaron, this is a mailbag episode, so we have a whole bunch of stuff that we're going to get to. We have one big item that we want to sort of tackle the start, but before we do that, how are you doing?
00:02:11
Speaker
You know, I'm doing okay. I am loving the weather. this is This is the time of year when I realize ah that I'm not ah miserable. human being it's just it's the weather's fault so uh and you i've been getting up earlier to you yeah i've been getting up earlier in the mornings i'm really getting my life together at the age of 42 so it's going great it's going great how are you doing what is not we don't really do a lot of banter here so i feel like i i have to take this this uh opportunity what is early what is what is getting up early for aaron camper uh we don't need to talk about that no i've been i've been getting up at i've been getting up at seven during the week and eight on the weekends
00:02:50
Speaker
Okay, that's not, hey, that's respectable. It's not bad. I mean, my my lifelong struggle has been if I were left to my own devices, and this it's been this way since I was a toddler, I would go to bed at 3 a.m. m every night and wake up at 10 or 11.
00:03:06
Speaker
um And so that's just been a constant struggle. And I love working from home. It's great in so many ways. But one of the problems is that you can get yourself into this this ah this mode where you're just rolling out of bed right first meeting or what have you. And that's just not good for anybody. So um yeah, so I've been I've been doing that. It's good to try to do that during the summer or, you know, when the days are longer, at least to establish it before it gets into the fall and winter. So hopefully i it's a yeah it's a habit by then.
Summer Mornings and Early Risers
00:03:37
Speaker
But as yeah As someone whose alarm is set at 640 to get sort of ah get the day started and get the kids out of the house and everything. I have to say that ah a I respect 7 a.m. I can totally respect.
00:03:52
Speaker
But also it is infinitely easier this time of year to get up. It is. Yeah. 640 or whatever when it's like bright, sunny out. Then in at 640 when it's pitch black in the summer. Yeah. ah I mean, in the winter.
00:04:06
Speaker
Yeah, it is so much easier. And I've tried to do this before. And usually I try to do it in like October or something, you know, and it's it's just like ah maybe I stick to it for a week or two. But i'm I've been, you know, six weeks or so on the schedule. So it's going pretty well.
00:04:19
Speaker
And it's funny, too, because like most people when they ask me and I tell them like, oh, you know, 7 a.m., m they're like, oh, that's that's pretty good. But my wife gets up at like 530. So, right. It still feels like I'm, so you know, I'm sleeping in. Right.
00:04:31
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, I yeah, I mean, I definitely have. fellow parents who are up much earlier than I am. I sure like my wife and I go to bed quite late. So six 40 is, yeah you know, a challenge, but, and there's nothing inherently virtuous about waking up early too. I do. I think that's one of the reasons I have always resisted it is it's like, look, I'm being productive at 3am.
00:04:57
Speaker
You know, I'm just like, that's just what my body wants to wants to do. But the reality is the world is what it is. And I've got a, I've got a desk job. So, You know, that's how she goes.
00:05:10
Speaker
Well, that's a great transition.
Club World Cup Protest and Consequences
00:05:11
Speaker
Actually, it's not. But ah let's let's let's get to this at the top of the show, such as it is. ah This weekend, the Sounders played a game. They lost three to two to Minnesota United. And that and that is not a in an irrelevant point to the, to the story, but it is secondary point.
00:05:32
Speaker
When the Sounders came out, know and let's set the stage a little bit. It was Sunday night soccer. So this is the, this is the, the big broadcast. Apple doesn't really do a great job of promoting this, but that's a total digression. I'm not going to, we don't need to get into that, but it's the, it's like the national game.
00:05:49
Speaker
It's the only game on the, you know the The big crew is in town. Andrew Wiebe is here. Taylor Twellman. Jake Ziven. It's a whole production. and And what happens? The Sounders get them out on the field wearing ah shirt. Oh, what is this shirt? We look up at the at the... We're in the press box and we look up at the big board and we're like, well, that's not the normal warm-up.
00:06:12
Speaker
And it's a shirt that says Club World Cash Grab with a little Monopoly man... Running off with the the FIFA money. The bag is is says FIFA and he's got a little, I think, MLS hat on or something like that.
00:06:27
Speaker
And anyway, pretty clear message. they They wear it all through warmups. Then they come out from the locker room at pregame. They're still wearing it. They take photos. The whole team gets behind for the photo shoot. They're all wearing it.
00:06:41
Speaker
Then they finally take it off. The game goes on. Sounders, i don't know. I don't, I didn't think the effort was lacking, but it was, it wasn't their best performance. Certainly.
00:06:52
Speaker
no not a horrible performance necessarily, but not certainly not their best. If, you know, if there was a five, they, a game where you could certainly accuse them, if they were off by 5%, that was maybe enough to be the margin. Right.
00:07:05
Speaker
And, and then apparently after the game, I found, find this out later. ah Adrian Haney are very upset by all of this. goes in there and just lays into the team kind of a profanity-laced ah tirade.
00:07:18
Speaker
Tirade, maybe too hard. He was upset. He was very upset, and he had some choice words implied that you know that that that he was sort of felt disrespected, reportedly, and and just it was not you know was not happy at all with the players. And and i think that he was probably...
00:07:38
Speaker
you know Maybe a little on tilt from the loss, but also, you know, this was I should also say the Club World Cup folks were in town. The Club World Cup had been touring around ah Seattle all week, and presumably some of those officials were were on hand.
00:07:55
Speaker
And so I think it was kind of an embarrassing thing to have all this happen. And he was not happy. And ah then the players, after sort of going through all that, came out and they had this something. ive I don't think I've ever seen them do this. They had all of them.
00:08:11
Speaker
you know, 14, there was 14 players. I think some of them were still getting dressed and so whatever, but they all kind of stood together, ah but let Christian and Steph Bray speak for them. and And they basically talked about how they felt like they were getting stonewalled by the league that they had put in a request.
Revenue Sharing Dispute Among Sounders
00:08:28
Speaker
I should say the under, I maybe i've I've skipped over the lead here. Their complaint is that, and MLS got a $9.5 million dollars or the the Sounders and every other MLS team that's getting into this tournament.
00:08:42
Speaker
Every other MLS. Yeah. I remember this team is getting $9.5 from fever The players are only going to get a million dollars and they don't get any any performance bonuses if they do well or if they they crash out.
00:08:55
Speaker
And the players, I think, rightfully say we deserve a little more than what we're getting. The league has essentially said, look, you guys signed a CBA back in 2021, which was notably four The Club World Cup existed, certainly far before we knew how much money was on the line.
00:09:13
Speaker
And they look they point to a clause and in the CBA that basically addresses all other tournaments that the that teams are forced to play in. And it says they that players get 50% or a million dollars, whichever is ah higher.
00:09:27
Speaker
and that's And that's it. and And the players say that they've tried to sort of engage in some goodwill situation. ah negotiations and the league hasn't really been that interested in negotiating.
00:09:40
Speaker
And this is where we are now. So don't know. Hopefully that catches us up. Aaron, what was your reaction to all of this? I think that,
00:09:51
Speaker
long time listeners of the show probably have a pretty good sense of what my reaction was. I am firmly on the side of the players here. I think that anytime the best defense you have is, Hey, you signed the contract.
00:10:05
Speaker
ah You are pretty clearly morally. It is a good, it's a good fallback. that I will say that legally speaking, that is a pretty good fallback. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I mean, most,
00:10:19
Speaker
right I mean, look, let's let's be realistic about what we're talking about here. um This is not May to one, right? This is these are extremely well compensated professional athletes asking for a cut of many millions of dollars.
00:10:33
Speaker
It is not the labor struggle of our times, but is. it it is i mean, it's not like. sounders ownership needs that money any more than the players I think it's a just cause is what you're saying. It is. the the players Absolutely. The players have righteousness on their side.
00:10:51
Speaker
They do. And I think that there are many, many instances of labor negotiations, labor struggle, labor strife, where technically, legally, the employer capital, um however you want to however however you want to to frame it was legally in the right and morally not at all in an indefensible position. and And I think, you know, that's that's how I feel about this. um I think that the...
00:11:22
Speaker
ah clearly the players are the reason the sounders are getting this money. ah Maybe not this exact collection of players, which is a different conversation, obviously a number of them. um But yeah, a fair number of them.
00:11:33
Speaker
And, um you know, that's ah that's a significant amount of money for these guys. ah Even if they get 30% of that 10 million, which I think is basically what the sort of how sort of the salary cap is pegged. Right.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah. It's something like that. Yeah. About that. Yeah. Um, and so I think that that's, you know, a fairly reasonable ask. And I think, again, when the best defense is like, Hey, you guys signed the contract.
00:12:01
Speaker
You know what? You're right. You don't have to, um, you don't have to pay a ah ah dime more to the players than that $1 million dollars that that's in the contract. And they agreed to, but the players also don't have to be happy about it.
00:12:12
Speaker
And, and I think that's absolutely not. I think that's the situation that that we're in here. um The players have voices. They chose to use them. It's it's nice to see them in solidarity about it. I think that Adrian's reaction, such as it was, obviously I wasn't in the in the locker room. I don't know. i think But I think it's unfortunate based on what's been reported.
00:12:33
Speaker
um But I don't think it's necessarily surprising. And I've said before, i like Adrian Hanauer a lot. I think he seems like a very good man. I think he's been a great owner, certainly better than most MLS owners.
00:12:45
Speaker
I think he clearly loves the club, but he's a very rich man. And this is just typically how people in his position are are going to react to, you know, to their employees asking for, for, ah you know, a bigger share of the of the pie.
00:13:00
Speaker
And so I don't really think it's surprising. I would have liked to hear maybe that his displeasure was expressed in a different way than, than it was. i think that, you know, coming into the locker room and and making it about your hurt feelings is,
00:13:14
Speaker
a little questionable, but you know, it is what it is. Right. I mean, he, I think a lot of other owners probably would have reacted in ah a much worse way. So, um you know, I guess we can be thankful for that, but yeah, I think, I think it's a pretty obvious moral question, right? Do you think that the players would have agreed to this deal if they had known that you know, there was any chance in the world that they would be getting a windfall like this potentially. And I just, I don't think that they would.
00:13:47
Speaker
No, I don't think they would have agreed. no And I think that, and, and that, and presumably this will be a point of negotiation in the, ah you know, the, the, the CBA runs out, I believe in 2028.
00:13:58
Speaker
And so, which is before, which would Quincy, ah conveniently the year before the next ah Club World Cup. So yeah there's time to address this for the next for you know for the for the next contract, and presumably it will not be so easily overlooked next time.
00:14:17
Speaker
ah What do you make, though, of sort of... My understanding is one of the things that Adrian was upset about was that no one came to him. And I think in his...
00:14:30
Speaker
Like this is me very much speculating, but I suppose that his thinking was like, I have a pretty good relationship with guys like Steph Fry and Christian Roldan and, you know, any number of players who have probably been here a few years.
00:14:45
Speaker
Couldn't you have just come to me and said, hey, can we work something out here or we're really upset? And... you know even we We did ask Steph about that. We asked the players about this. And and Steph basically said, look, we we went through the proper channels. We sent a letter through the MLSPA to the league. And the league basically blew us off.
00:15:11
Speaker
And I, and so I think the idea that Adrian didn't know about it. And also this is, we're now like we've written multiple stories about them being upset. So he couldn't have been totally surprised that the players were upset. And I don't think that's what he was saying.
00:15:24
Speaker
I just think he's saying before you took this action, I would have appreciated you coming. He obviously didn't say this calmly, but ah I would have appreciated you coming to me first and maybe we could have worked something out.
00:15:36
Speaker
Even if ah he didn't have the power to unilaterally make that decision. what What do you make of that? Is that completely like silliness or is that a legitimate thing for him to be annoyed about?
00:15:48
Speaker
I think that it is totally valid way for him to feel. i can understand how that would feel like a bit of a slight, but I also think he, he has to be aware of the power dynamics at play. First of all, um yeah he is the owner of the team. he is fabulously wealthy.
00:16:06
Speaker
ah You know, professional athletes are extremely well compensated, even in MLS, the highest paid player um the Sounders. It, you know, at any point in the foreseeable future, we'll never touch Adrian Hanauer's wealth, right? He's an extremely wealthy man.
00:16:23
Speaker
um and And that plays into it. And I think also, it's not just about the Sounders, right? It's about they're in a union with all of the other players on all of the other teams in MLS, yeah all of the other players that are that are going to to play in the Club World Cup this year, or or maybe in the future, or in whatever other crazy tournaments FIFA decides to cook up in the future um where they throw a bunch of money at it to hope it sticks, you know? um So they're they're looking out for for each other. and And I think that, you know, the the collective bargaining agreement, I'm sure establishes a way that they're supposed to address this stuff. The players are supposed to address this stuff. And I and i trust when Stephen Fry says, hey, we did everything we were supposed to do the way we were supposed to do it by the book.
00:17:09
Speaker
Um, so it's not that I don't understand how Adrian might feel like that. I just think it's a little bit, um, insincere.
00:17:21
Speaker
Maybe i don't, you know, I don't want to put a value real on it. Yeah. Unrealistic or, or just maybe a little toned up, right. Of, of not recognizing the power dynamics at play, not recognizing that it's not just about the sounders that it's about,
00:17:36
Speaker
other unions. ah And again, I think that a lot of the time people who are in these, you know, employer employee dynamics, who feel that they take really good care of their employees who have this sort of like, Hey, we're a family mentality.
00:17:51
Speaker
Forget about at the end of the day, at the bottom, you know, bottom line, what the actual arrangement is and that the relationship between an employer and an employee is to a great extent, just inherently adversarial.
00:18:06
Speaker
And, you know, even if you like your boss, sometimes you have to butt heads with them um when you're when you're trying to look out for yourself and and, you know, for your fellow workers. And I think that that's just one of these situations.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah, I would I would agree with all that. i think that I can I can sort of. Understand. Adrian's mindset, at least as it's been reported to me. Yeah.
00:18:32
Speaker
But I also think. he's not doing himself any favors by going off on the players and, and sort of creating this whole,
00:18:43
Speaker
Like it, it's an escalation. And the thing that's really frustrating about this is that there seems to be a pretty common sense solution to this. And look, if the, if the league wants to stick by the CBA, which is again, they're right.
00:19:01
Speaker
They want to stick. This is what it was in the CBA. We negotiated this. This is the deal. Fair enough. What I really, genuinely, I don't, I genuinely don't understand why they wouldn't just say, look, we'll, we'll share the performance bonuses with you. Maybe we'll give you the performance bonuses. Hell, why not?
00:19:23
Speaker
Like, or maybe not all the performance bonus, like up to another certain amount or something. I don't know. but Like some, some rev share in the, like, there's gotta to be something because the thing is, is that, So as a reminder, i every point every tie that a team gets in the group stage to get $1 million, dollars every win a team gets in the group stage to get $2 million, dollars if they get out of the group stage, that's another $7.5 million. dollars So I don't think it's at all unrealistic to think that an MLS team might get out of the group stage, essentially collect another $10 million. dollars
00:19:59
Speaker
But the thing is that in order for them to do that, they've got to play really well. They've got to get some results. And if you want those players to be as motivated as possible to do that, you know, way back last year when I talked to Adrian about gearing up for the Club World Cup, one of the things he talked about was I want to make sure that we have a team that is, you know, as – unified and together and maybe we can, you know, he was much more interested in creating this environment where players sort of wanted to play for each other and play for the badge and do all these kinds of things than he was in spending a whole bunch of money, which, you know, we can chew that, chew that up, but it is sort of ironic that we are sitting here when he had some of it like, or the league had the ability to like juice that sort of ethos and,
00:20:47
Speaker
Like that's found money for the league. ah yeah Maybe they kind of budgeted in some some level of of ah of windfall coming from from the Club World Cup, but certainly they didn't budget money beyond the initial, whatever that in initial ah payout was.
00:21:06
Speaker
So it seems like that, and hopefully we can still maybe come to that solution because I don't think there's any reason that this should blow up the possibility of an agreement. Right. Yeah. I think that that's a, that's a, I mean, I think ultimately it makes an agreement more likely, even if there are some hurt feelings along the way.
00:21:24
Speaker
Right. I think that, you know, it's gotten lot of traction and I would say that obviously I have a self-selected group of people that I'm i'm hearing from, but I would say that it's 90, 10 in favor of the players um in terms of the reaction I've heard. So I think that's certainly a factor.
00:21:42
Speaker
um But I think if you are, you know, a core player of the Sounders. If you're ah Christian Roldan or somebody of that nature, somebody who's really critical to the team and their success, and you are losing one nail to PSG in the 10th minute, that's, if you know, hey, if we can grind out a point, if we can find a way to get back in this game, grind out a point, not only do we get the glory of moving on,
00:22:15
Speaker
but get the glory of ah potentially getting our share of seven and a half million more dollars. Right. I don't think it's crazy to think that players might be motivated somewhat by money.
00:22:27
Speaker
I think that's a pretty, think that that's totally reasonable. And I think, especially if it's like, okay, do we just kind of write this one off and, and, you know, heal up and get back to the regular season, which It's a bigger deal because nobody is expecting the Sounders to be PSG.
00:22:48
Speaker
Nobody's expecting the Sounders to get out of the group, but they are expecting them to make a deep run in the playoffs. They are expecting them to be competing, you know, for a top spot in the Western conference. And the longer they stay in the club world cup, the tougher that stuff comes. Right. And they do have guaranteed bonuses if they finish ah certain level in the table and they go a certain, you know, number rounds in the playoffs. Like,
00:23:12
Speaker
And maybe they're not thinking about that in the moment, but they know it, you know, inherently. And, and I don't, you know, I don't, I'm not questioning anybody's effort or commitment to the team, but I just think it's, it's totally reasonable to be like, if they've got actual skin in the game, they're probably going to be a little more invested. And I think that that's pretty fair.
00:23:34
Speaker
And I think that's exactly why, FIFA created the structure the way that they did. Half the pool of money is performance-based.
00:23:46
Speaker
I think that tells you why what how FIFA felt that they needed to motivate players and motivate teams. and you know I don't know exactly how other teams are doing this. you know There's been some... you know like Supposedly, Real Madrid told their players they'd each get a million bucks if they won the whole thing.
00:24:05
Speaker
you know, that is not a huge percentage. That's, you know, that's the, that's like a 25% of their total rake if they were to do that. So, I mean, still 25% is a lot more than 10. Yeah. Which is essentially what the centers are getting.
00:24:20
Speaker
But anyway, I, I think we, I think anything else on this subject that you wanted to the get out? I feel like we've, we've explored it pretty thoroughly at this point. No, I think, I think we've hit all the big spots. Um,
00:24:32
Speaker
I do hope that that the players are successful and, and you know, Clyde back a little bit of this money because, you know, they're they're the ones that earned it for the most part. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I hope that cooler heads can ultimately prevail. And and frankly, this is not that weird for contract negotiations to have.
00:24:51
Speaker
you know i realize this is not a necessarily a contract negotiation, but this is how negotiations often go, is that one side gets very frustrated, and or both sides sometimes get very frustrated, and say things that they'd rather not have said, but then ultimately they're able to figure it out. So I'm not writing this off.
00:25:09
Speaker
i you know Maybe that's being Pollyanna-ish, but hopefully yeah hopefully something gets done here. All right, so we have a whole bunch of questions. The first one, though, Aaron...
00:25:21
Speaker
It seems to be i'm a familiar person. You want to go ahead and ask that one? Yeah. The first one is from Aaron. ah How pissed off should Sounders fans and or Washington taxpayers be about the Lumen World Cup upgrades?
Lumen Field Upgrades and Public Outrage
00:25:33
Speaker
What a great question.
00:25:34
Speaker
but Really great. Astute question. So but that guy is really handsome. Probably. Probably. Yeah. He probably gets up really early, too, in the morning. So there's been a bunch of stories ah recently in Axios, in the Seattle Times, in the Puget Sound Business Journal, and all of them sort of broadly talk about these upgrades that are coming to Lumen Field.
00:26:02
Speaker
And essentially, the upgrades come in a few key areas right now. ah The biggest one, or i should i maybe I don't want to go in the order.
00:26:13
Speaker
They're going to be adding backs to the seats in the Hawk Nest because that is apparently a ah requirement for FIFA. They're going to be adding turnstiles to the entry gates, which is very annoying, but apparently another thing that FIFA demands. They're going to be expanding some seating areas, apparently.
00:26:30
Speaker
Again, FIFA has demanded this. They have to change the signage because it can't be Lumen Field. It has to be Seattle Stadium or something like that. So there's this kind of laundry list of things that they're going to have to do. But the biggest expense, a single, single expense appears to be that they are going to be ripping out the turf, which we knew that. But then they're going to have to.
00:26:53
Speaker
let's see. They are going to. I don't have the full list here, but essentially they're going to put in a brand new grass pitch, a hybrid. Actually, we learned this. Another thing we just learned, it's actually going to be a hybrid turf.
00:27:05
Speaker
And then they're going to put like these vacuum systems so that they can suck out the water, even though it probably won't rain, but who cares? ah And then there's a whole like drainage system. They're going to have to get grow lights. they're going to have to get ah maintenance equipment.
00:27:19
Speaker
And they're going to basically put that in. right after the football, the Seahawks season ends sometime in January. and And, then my understanding is that it's going to just basically like,
00:27:32
Speaker
like treated and babied and everything else. And that maybe the first competition that's really played on it might be the world cup.
00:27:42
Speaker
Uh, I'm pretty sure other one else is goingnna be allowed to play on it. So that does have ramifications that I, I don't have, we don't, aren't really going to be able to get into today, but it sure looks like the center is are going to be nomads at the start of the season.
00:27:55
Speaker
Uh, but yeah anyway, so there's a quote in the Seattle time story that just drove me absolutely bonkers. And it is from this woman named April Putney, who is the chief strategy officer for the local organizing committee.
00:28:11
Speaker
And she says, everything the state is funding. Oh, and by the way, the state is kicking in like $20 million dollars to to fund all this. That's the... premise of your question i suppose should have added that she says everything the state is funding in capital for the stadium are all things that meet fifa requirements okay fair enough but also serve a broader purpose for the stadium ongoing oh okay none of it is just something that is beneficial for the tournament itself it's all things that will be provide ongoing benefit and help the stadium either with attracting future events or solving the ongoing needs that they have
00:28:44
Speaker
yeah Oh, by the way, they in the same story, they say they're ripping out the grass as soon as the tournament's over. They're going to be putting in the field turf. Those things do not seem to compute to me. i am sort of losing my mind. It feels a little bit like i'm I've been trying to get someone at first and goal to...
00:29:03
Speaker
answer some questions about this. So I don't want to get too out over my skis, but to as it looks right now, it looks like, uh, like the taxpayers are just paying for a short term. I mean, I don't really see how this is a longterm, like what is the longterm upside here?
00:29:19
Speaker
They're putting in some ventilation. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's crazy. It's, it's absolutely crazy. The the state of Washington is in somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 to $15 billion dollars budget shortfall.
00:29:31
Speaker
um They're having to cut a ton of services all of the time when when there are pretty serious alarm bells about the economy generally. ah it's It's unconscionable.
00:29:42
Speaker
what What programs that benefit vulnerable people, that benefit children, um that you know protect public lands, what could that money be doing?
00:29:54
Speaker
right The Allen Trust is worth... I think about double that state budget surplus. And they are, as far as I'm aware, not pitching in a red cent, right? for For these upgrades.
00:30:09
Speaker
And ostensibly that's because the state of Washington owns and operates the stadium. State of Washington isn't seeing any benefit from that. ah The Seahawks own the stadium for all intents and purposes. They manage the stadium. They get all the revenue from the stadium.
00:30:25
Speaker
um It is it makes me so angry. It is so insulting to you know, if you, um as pissed off as I am about this, imagine if you don't care about sports at all, how um how much this this would have to piss you off, you know?
00:30:42
Speaker
um It's unconscionable, and it is such a slap in the face to also throw on top of it. Oh yeah. And you know, the, the biggest chunk of that money is going to be totally wasted. It's going to be, and it's stuff that we've been told for years, for years, we have been told for years, know, we'd love to have grass too, but we just can't make it work. We just can't, just can't do it.
00:31:04
Speaker
Just too expensive. It's impossible. And it's, and you're, it's, ba you're getting this money to do it, to put in of the infrastructure that you would need. And yes, it would cost more money than the turf, but it's there. It's,
00:31:18
Speaker
ah in The capital investment is there and paid for and you're just going to throw it away. Yeah, is shocking to me. And not to mention, like you you, you've already laid out like all of these requests that FIFA is asking for are absurd.
00:31:33
Speaker
um They're at, you know, security theater at best. Uh, it's preposterous. It's, it's just, it's such a joke. And but yeah, there's a separate, there's a whole separate thing for, uh, security upgrades that yeah is separate from this $20 million dollars because it's like 300 million or something. I don't think, I don't know if that's, that's not just for Seattle, but there is like a huge, I think congressional,
00:31:58
Speaker
yeah line item basically like national level. like so i Maybe it might be like $600 million dollars that Congress was being asked to kick in to help upgrade security at the various venues, which I'm sure will all be used in the most harmless Well, and a lot of that money in that and that line item is going for enhanced border security, which I'm sure will only be used for the duration of the World Cup and will be administered justly.
00:32:28
Speaker
Right. Yeah. It is. it It just it's better not to think about it, man. I can't be walking around this pissed off all the time. It's not good for me, but it's people should be. i think the question was, how pissed off should people be? And and I think they should be pissed off, I think, is the answer. Yeah.
00:32:46
Speaker
Yeah, and I will say my hope is that there's going to be more reporting. So far, I've been a little frustrated at the state of the reporting on this because there's so few follow-up questions seemingly being asked. like Every story I read on this, and I'm coming away thinking, like God, I would really like to know the answer to these questions.
00:33:03
Speaker
maybe Maybe there are perfectly logical explanations. for I kind of doubt it. but ah Right. like but the the way Maybe somebody should ask. Right. That maybe someone's, yeah and I guess maybe, maybe it's because this stuff only affects the soccer fans or something. I don't, I don't know, but it, it feels very, it is very much under,
00:33:27
Speaker
you know, underlining the reason that Lumenfield is feeling increasingly more hostile towards the Sounders. And I don't, I'd like to think that the Sounders are really doing their best to push back against that. I don't know what's, I know what the Sounders are doing really to push back against it, which is also frustrating.
Community Involvement and Support
00:33:47
Speaker
ah But we do have some soccer to talk about. yeah, Why don't why don't i I kick us off here? ah This is from Andrew. and I'll remind everyone, these questions, we field these questions from our Discord. If you want to get involved in the Discord, you got to become Sounder Heart member at the at the supporter level ah or above. That's $75.
00:34:10
Speaker
ah But then you'll get into our Discord. It's a great community. And you'll be able to ask us questions. But more importantly, you'll be able to do interact with just really great people most the time. ah Yeah.
00:34:22
Speaker
This is from Andrew. He says, do you think Obed is still going to be sold either this summer or next winter? And how much of a problem do you think it is for the Sounders if he is not sold? ah I do think he's going to be sold.
00:34:35
Speaker
um i was pretty dead set on him being gone this summer, no matter what. I am now kind of of the opinion that if he plays well at the Club World Cup,
00:34:48
Speaker
there's a good chance he goes this summer, but otherwise I think it might be in the winter after he gets some more time with the Mexican national team. i don't know. Um, for what, for whatever it's worth in like three straight career modes I've done in, uh, FC 25, he ends up playing for share, which is kind of funny.
00:35:04
Speaker
Uh, so maybe, you know, maybe they'll have a share. I think that's how you say it. And, uh, they goon. uh, yeah. So maybe, you know, maybe that's where I'll end up, but, uh, at any rate, yeah, I, am um,
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's a chance he goes this summer.
Transfer Talk: Obed Vargas
00:35:20
Speaker
I'm a lot less convinced than I was earlier. And it hasn't it's not because he he hasn't been good. I think he's been quite good this year. It's just and I just haven't heard the buzz, really. and And you would kind of expect to hear some of the buzz if if something was imminent.
00:35:36
Speaker
Yeah, i I am with i think you you have accurately. Identify like it there are no like just yes. Last week we talked to Craig Weibel and he said there's no there are no offers for him right now. That doesn't and that might partly because the centers have made it very clear what they're looking for, which seems to be, you know, a sizable fee.
00:35:58
Speaker
And he's also made it clear he wants to play in Europe so that, you know, you're certain narrowing who might be interested in transferring for him, paying a transfer fee for him. Uh, but yeah. And I, as far as would it be a problem if he's still here?
00:36:14
Speaker
i mean, I guess it depends on the circumstances. If the sounders are like the sounders, as far as I can tell, are being open and honest with Obed about the you know, what's going on here. And he seems to be on board with it so far.
00:36:28
Speaker
I, I don't, I wouldn't be totally shocked if the centers end up signing him to a U22 contract. ah You know, and then if they do that, he would presumably being well compensated.
00:36:40
Speaker
He can still I mean, he's still only 19. So he's got plenty of time to to move still. It's not like he's an old man. So i I can I think the Sounders are OK being patient. I think he's OK being patient.
00:36:53
Speaker
And so don't think it's a problem. I think the bigger issue will be trying to replace him ah more than yeah like how they handle him if he sticks around. Yeah.
00:37:06
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, which now includes Nos Anietes, Lobbing Scorchers, and The Cooler Guild. We've been independent since August of 2023, but need your support to make sure it continues.
00:37:19
Speaker
Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible by your continued support.
Podcast Network Membership Perks
00:37:24
Speaker
Memberships start as low as $25 a year, which not only helps make podcasts like this one happen, but also gets you access to everything we produce.
00:37:32
Speaker
If you're able to support us at higher levels, starting at $75 a year, you gain access to a host of other perks, most notably entry into our members-only Discord, where the smartest, funniest, and most engaged commenters share their thoughts and ideas.
00:37:47
Speaker
To find out more, just visit sounderatheart.com and click the subscribe button in the top right corner. Thanks for listening.
00:37:59
Speaker
Nos Adietes admittedly is not exactly known for our spicy takes, but that doesn't mean we want our food to be mild. Spice up your life with Hacks and Ferments. Handcrafted in Georgetown and made it with the best local ingredients from across the Pacific Northwest, they specialize in unique small batch fermented hot sauces and vinegars.
00:38:17
Speaker
Hacks and Ferments brings bold flavors and natural fermentation together for something truly special. Whether you're a heat seeker or just looking to elevate your cooking, you'll find something you love at haxanferments.com.
00:38:30
Speaker
That's H-A-X-A-N-F-E-R-M-E-N-T-S dot com. And right now, if you use the code sounder at heart, that's all one word, at checkout, you will get a free hot sauce with your order.
00:38:46
Speaker
Again, go to hacksandferments.com, use the code sounder at heart at checkout for a free hot sauce with your order. Hacks and Ferments is a proud sponsor of that sounder at heart podcast network.
00:39:00
Speaker
ah Well, this is somewhat related to that from Ken W. If the sounders don't receive the kind of offer that makes sense to sell Obed, does Danny Laiva's best path become seeking another club if he ever wants to become a regular and MLS starter?
00:39:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's hard right now to see Danny Leyva's path to more regular playing time with the Sounders. Like he's got an okay playing time, but he he is nowhere. He does not seem to be close to breaking in as a starter.
00:39:28
Speaker
And that's, you know, that's a problem. I would say last year i was an advocate for seeing him be more of a backup for Albert Rusnak. And that doesn't, you know they seem to have now sort of a plethora of players that they could potentially use to spell Rusnak if he wasn't available.
00:39:47
Speaker
So that cuts off a path. Yeah, I mean, I don't Danny Leva also might not be an MLS starter, which isn't the world's worst thing in the world. I like him. i think he's a good player, but I, I would agree that it does not look like he has a very clear path to starting for the Sounders. And that's even if Obed gets sold, I suppose.
00:40:09
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, This is from Jwami. ah Who internally do you think will end up using the U22 initiative slots for? Seems like this is a really good mechanism for locking up young talents like Obed and Reed Baker Whiting on expiring first deals who have a strong chance ability of moving outside LMS after expiration.
00:40:31
Speaker
ah do you think Obed and RBW are looking to move outside of LMS and have rejected you twenty two slots?
00:40:38
Speaker
because they think they can do better in non-MLS free agency or the Stounders just being stingy?
00:40:47
Speaker
i i don't think they're being stingy, really. um I think they have two spots. I think it maybe doesn't make a ton of sense to use one of those spots on Obed if you think he's moving immediately.
00:41:01
Speaker
But I think every day that passes without really hearing any buzz that he's on his way out. the more it makes sense to use one of those spots on him. um I think too, it it gets complicated because Baker Whiting seemed like the obvious choice, um you know,
00:41:18
Speaker
but coming into the season, right? but Right. But I don't think he's the fullback that looks most likely to take one of those spots right now, you know? No, I i mean, i I think he could end up being a u twenty two signing.
Contract Discussions: Reed Baker Whiting
00:41:34
Speaker
He does have a contract that's running out at the end of this year, so that does... that put some impetus, I believe on, on getting that done, but he also hasn't done anything to really demand that the sounders give him one now either. Like he, he's only, hasn't, I don't think he started a game yet this year.
00:41:53
Speaker
he is, he's been struggling to stay healthy. Like he struggled with this, get healthy at the start of the year. is, he's sort of had this persistent muscle issues player. I like talent evaluators really like them.
00:42:09
Speaker
He's got a great build. He's got a great, you know, he's got some really good skills. He, but he needs to get on the field more, ah really. So I don't think the Sounders are fielding a ton of offers for him right now.
00:42:22
Speaker
So, you know, ah yeah, it's kind of a ah weird one. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Next one is from Neftelin. I know Garth isn't exactly Atlanta's GM, but thinking about the Sounders roster build and Atlanta's roster build right now and how they've spent money over the last couple of windows. If Arthur Blank called Adrian tomorrow and offered to give us Garth back in exchange for Craig, would Adrian do it?
00:42:46
Speaker
Should Adrian do it? Sorry. I don't think Adrian would do it. in part because I think he, like, I, I, I don't think Adrian, like, I don't think that that situation ended on bad terms, but I don't necessarily think it ended on great terms either. So I think Adrian was probably, you know, not like he was, I don't think he was trying to push Garth out or anything, but I think he is probably happier with, with Craig than,
00:43:20
Speaker
he would be with Garth right now? I don't know. That's a good question. I don't, this is like full speculation. I had not even thought about it in this context, but I would say no, he probably wouldn't. That's my answer.
00:43:32
Speaker
Yeah. I, I don't think he would. And I don't really think you should either. um Not because I, I don't think Garth is, you know, he had a ton of success here, obviously, but there is sort of a, you can't go home again kind of thing at play, but also,
00:43:48
Speaker
I mean, i think that maybe some of Garth's weaknesses have been exposed in Atlanta. um And I think that sometimes when things you can be fantastic, great at your job, considered a genius, and then you run into some difficulties at your next job, but your next, you know, you know your next way up the up the ladder and you're not the same person you were, right? You lose some of your confidence, lose some of your edge, right?
00:44:15
Speaker
ah whatever it may be. And so there's a risk of that. um But i I also think, you know, all the stuff you just said about maybe it wasn't the greatest working relationship towards the end of things, I think is certainly a factor. And I think Craig's doing a really good job um working within the parameters that he has.
00:44:35
Speaker
Yeah. And those parameters are what they are. um Maybe there was a time when Garth could get more out of Adrian than maybe Craig is able to. But I think if Garth were to come back now and try to push for that, Adrian can say, yeah, you did a really good job with that in Atlanta, didn't you? So, and and he'd be right to say so, right? Like it's, yeah it's tough to argue with the results they've had down there. So yeah, I'm i'm with you. I don't think you order should.
00:45:02
Speaker
Yeah, ah it's it's an interesting it's definitely an interesting question, though. All right. This one's from a brend good friend of the show, Bill Jones, TRPT. Watching the Dallas Sounders match made me wonder how the league does or doesn't make accommodation for colorblind players.
00:45:20
Speaker
I don't know what it's like to be colorblind, but I know eight percent of men are and red green are said to be one of the tougher pairings to distinguish. Does the league take this into account somehow? How do colorblind players cope?
00:45:33
Speaker
So I'm going to just take a wild stab at this and say that the league does not take this into account. um i used to do some consulting at a large software and hardware, but mostly software company over in Redmond.
00:45:48
Speaker
And one of their directives for the kind of work I was doing was making stuff accessible and colorblind safe. And I would say nine times out of 10, when I presented something to a client,
00:46:01
Speaker
They said, I want red and green. I want stoplights. And I would say, it is part of my contract that I cannot do that. And they said, I don't care. I want red and green. And i explained why. And I explained the policy. And they said, i don't care.
00:46:13
Speaker
And so I think that most likely the league does not care about that or take into account. um I would assume that the players have other cues. um you You know, the maybe shorts color.
00:46:26
Speaker
they They do train with the guys. Yeah, was going to say, I think... I, and I think this is part of why the league has gone to um,
00:46:38
Speaker
a dark light, uh, thing. And I will say in in this case, so Dallas actually wore blue, a dark, like the front of their jerseys were actually dark blue. So yeah I don't necessarily think that these particular jerseys are that hard to distinguish.
00:46:57
Speaker
The Sounders have stripes. Dallas doesn't, you know, so it's like, I suspect that a colorblind player has probably learned the nuances of this stuff.
00:47:09
Speaker
For sure. Yeah. I saw a clip of like a college world series game the other day and it was, i think Oklahoma state and somebody wearing red and it was both teams were wearing gray pants and it was like orange and red jerseys.
00:47:24
Speaker
And I was just like, how is this, how does this happen? And and ro vi it's pretty crazy. So compared to something like that, um I do think that, you know, in MLS, it's a little easier to to differentiate.
00:47:36
Speaker
Next one is from Pulse was Sounder. When MLS Season Pass was launched, I was under the impression that there would be additional content beyond the games and match previews, recaps, and that a lot of this was going to come from the clubs.
00:47:47
Speaker
But Sounder's working on expanding the amount of content that is on MLS Season Pass. Having things like post-game press conferences and notifications in the app when there is new content posted would drive more engagement. Yeah, i I can't speak to what the Sounders are doing. I do know that they do at least a sort of like weekly feature that they put together. that And I've watched it a few times. it's It's well put together. It's not super interesting necessarily, especially if you've been paying attention to the team.
00:48:16
Speaker
But they they do put out some content. I don't understand why they aren't doing things like, showing the press conferences live. It seems like that would be something that would be relatively easy to do. There's a lot of missed opportunities, frankly, on MLS.
00:48:32
Speaker
There's a whole, the fact that they don't program it ah seven days a week is bizarre to me. Like they should have live original content every single day. Like go LASO network, which is essentially ah ah part of the paramount ah ecosystem.
00:48:51
Speaker
And it's their soccer channel. And they have a 24 hour a day show that is on like Pluto and and ah end streaming. And you can, you know in the morning they have all kinds of original content.
00:49:05
Speaker
Into the afternoon, they have original content and then they show like replays and other kind of things like that. I don't know why MLS is not taking advantage of the platform that they have more thoroughly. It's it's wild. they Like ah we were talking earlier in the show about how they had the Sunday night soccer thing. I don't think they promote that almost at all.
00:49:23
Speaker
ah Like I don't know that people know that the pregame starts at two o'clock for a three o'clock game, for instance. um And they have some good content on there, too. I only know because when I turn the, turn the games on two minutes before it asked me if I want to go live or watch the watch from the beginning. And I always say go live and it always starts at the beginning. So, um but yeah, well without that, I probably wouldn't know that there was a, an hour of a pregame. I feel like this has kind of been a trend with MLS, unfortunately, over the years that I've been following the league in that they have this big new initiative and they,
00:50:00
Speaker
they get people all riled up about it and they promise exciting things and they just don't follow through. Um, and this is maybe the most egregious case of that. I think, uh, there, I think there was a lot of promise with the Apple deal.
00:50:12
Speaker
I was a very staunch defender of it. Well, I think, you know, I think acknowledging the potential downsides, um, I thought that the upsides were worth it. And I just don't think the league and and Apple have done a great job of trying to fulfill the promise. And it's, it's, it's a pretty big bummer because I think they could have been,
00:50:29
Speaker
um pioneers and they they could have been sort of showing, you know, a better way forward or a new way forward at least.
MLS Season Pass and Missed Opportunities
00:50:36
Speaker
And I think instead what has happened is all of the stuff that everyone kind of knew what happened with has happened and none of the promise has been fulfilled. And so it just, it's just kind of fizzled out. It's, it's been pretty unfortunate to watch.
00:50:49
Speaker
Yeah. I would totally agree with all that. It's, there's so many things that they could be doing that would be, I think relatively low cost and maybe even low effort that seemed to me that they would make the product just so much better. And it's just not, it's not happening.
00:51:11
Speaker
All right. This is from South Sounder. He said, often see our MLS opponents rostering players who are quote, on loan from European clubs and other parts of the world.
00:51:22
Speaker
Isn't this roster vehicle also available to the Sounders? And if so, why have we not been using it to inject more talent into the squad? What's the downside, if any, of participating in lending players?
00:51:33
Speaker
So it is definitely available to the Sounders. They've used it ah many times in the past. um I'm going to... I'm going to forget somebody, but to my mind, the most prominent example of this was Freddie Montero. He was originally on loan before the Sounders yeah bought him from, uh, from million arrows.
00:51:51
Speaker
Uh, right. Yeah. Was it Millie? Uh, no, he was from Cali. Oh, that's right. That's right. And then he went, he went to million arrows later. Yeah. Joe Paolo was also a player. They originally brought on loan.
00:52:03
Speaker
Yep. Yep. Um, Brad Smith, Mario, redsmith mario martinez for the mario martinez not it didn't work out quite as well but no no yeah um so so hagar rebay yeah yeah that yeah we could go to ah we we could go we could go down the list of the less successful ones and that also illustrates the centers have not used this this mechanism very often um Recently, Georgie Minungu might be the most recent player.
00:52:35
Speaker
they They actually i take it back. They have Kato Yamada currently yeah on loan. He's a Japanese center back. He's at defiance. they They seem to be using it a little bit more on defiance lately.
00:52:46
Speaker
But right. I guess the argument is. Loans are sometimes a tough needle to thread because you need someone, you need the right circumstance. And I don't think the Sounders have but remotely they to like said, we're not doing loans.
00:53:06
Speaker
I just think that they haven't done as many first team prominent loans as they used to.
00:53:13
Speaker
but I don't know. You look around the league. I don't know How many really successful loans are there right now in the league? Um, I will admit that im nine I'm not as plugged in to all of that stuff as I used to be, but I can't think of any right now that are necessarily setting the world on fire.
00:53:31
Speaker
I mean, I think when you look at the the criteria for a player, or not the criteria, but the the common reasons a player is going to go on loan. Probably the most common is they're a young player that needs playing time at a high level, but not as high as their parent club.
00:53:44
Speaker
right And they need that playing time to be guaranteed. And that's probably just not generally going to happen in MLS. um It's not it's it's a better league, I think, than players are typically going to like in England, for example, Premier League clubs are learning players down to League one, League two, that sort of thing.
00:54:03
Speaker
um And MLS is a better league than those. The other reason is it's a player who doesn't want to be there and they make too much money or haven't been very good. And so nobody wants to buy them.
00:54:18
Speaker
Right. That's usually going to be a problem in an MLS because it's going to be a DP and you're not going to want to pay a DP salary for you know a player who hasn't been producing generally. so um Those are the two most common reasons. and it It can, like you said, just make it sort of tough to thread the needle. and I think that the teams that are loading guys in are teams that don't have great academies. i would I would take a guess. I don't have the numbers the or the data to back that up, but that just seems...
00:54:50
Speaker
sort of by based on observation, that seems to be the case, right? Because they're, you know, the Sounders have lots of young players that they can use to provide depth and eat up minutes.
00:55:02
Speaker
Other teams are loaning those players in with an option to buy sometimes and and the Sounders just don't really need to go that route. And I think that's a big part of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's, it's a, yeah, and I think that's, that's a good place, a good way of saying it.
00:55:19
Speaker
Next one is from Tired Yeti. What's been affecting Ryan Kent? He came on so strong initially, but seems to be really struggling as of late. The talent is totally there. Any thoughts on why he's in a funk? I mean, I think he is a player who is still getting fit.
00:55:33
Speaker
I think he's a player who's still learning his teammates. I think he probably caught some opponents by surprise a little bit. And so i think this probably like to me, it still seems like within the normal range of growing.
00:55:49
Speaker
You know, I will point out that he is pretty close to having a couple more assists. And, you know, he had a he had an assist to Georgie Manungu on a ball that was called offside a couple of games ago.
00:56:03
Speaker
He you know, and then he's had a few recently where he has just slightly missed guys at ah the back post. So I think some of it is sharpness. I think some of it is teams have kind of figured him out a little bit. They've been putting, he's been getting double and triple teamed a lot. So one thing we've not seen him do is beat guys off the dribble as much. And I think a lot of that is because he's just getting, you know, teams are, are defending him better, but I, I do feel good about his trajectory, but,
00:56:35
Speaker
you know, I think it, it does sort of underscore that we probably got a little, ah like folks got a little ahead of themselves when they're like, give the guy a DP contract now, uh, after like two really good games. Yeah.
00:56:46
Speaker
I think too, like players like Ryan Kent that have his skillset are going to just be inherently streaky. Uh, you know, that's just kind of the nature of the beast. And I, and I think that that we were getting questions a while ago about why, how could all these teams be so crazy to let this guy go?
00:57:03
Speaker
right And I think if you're playing at the level he was playing at and you can't do it as consistently as other players, you're probably going to be the guy that that ends up odd man out.
00:57:14
Speaker
Right. Yep. Yep. ah All right. This one is from Andrew. Does Adrian have enough money to be the primary owner of an MLS team in 2025? Yeah. So think that
00:57:27
Speaker
yeah ah so um i think that I don't think that the sheer amount of money is necessarily the issue because the thing that the thing to keep in mind is that Adrian is the majority owner. He is the face of the franchise. He's making most of the the decisions, I think, both um in the shorter and longer term.
00:57:48
Speaker
But he is not the entirety of the ownership group. He is some percentage of it that we don't actually know. I don't think. um But the ownership group as a whole has plenty of money to be know to to be owning an MLS team. um He you know, they have agreed to do capital calls if if need be. they They have agreed to spend money when the time comes.
00:58:16
Speaker
I think the issue is the question is because i I don't know how I feel. So saying the issue isn't really the the right way. I think about this a lot and I and i don't know is does Adrian have the mentality to be the primary owner of an MLS team in 2025.
00:58:31
Speaker
And I think that's a fair question. And I think a lot of the decisions that are going to be coming down the pike in the next couple of years are really going to give us a sense of that. I think if the Sounders end up building stadium at Long Acres, the answer is an emphatic no. Adrian does not have the temperament to be an owner in MLS in 2025 or 2027, I guess is the case maybe.
00:58:54
Speaker
I think that that is a disastrous decision. um that is extremely short-sighted and myopic. ah And so I think that that's a big tell.
00:59:07
Speaker
um But I think right now, there's no reason that Adrian can't be a super effective and successful owner. But it it is getting to a rubber meets the road kind of place where we still haven't signed ah you twenty two we We still have all this money.
00:59:26
Speaker
ostensibly to spend on transfers that we're not spending. The the the situation at Lumen is most likely untenable. And so you've got to make decisions about what kind of owner you want to be in this new landscape.
00:59:40
Speaker
And I think if you don't have the temperament to make those decisions, um it's it's probably time to to find somebody else to take over the stewardship.
00:59:54
Speaker
Yeah, um I think you put it well. it's he i think I'm pretty sure he has the money. If he wants to write some checks, he can presumably he's well-resourced enough that he can handle you know taking a few million in losses if that's what it demands.
01:00:12
Speaker
But I think you're right. that it's It's like, is he willing to do that? i don't I don't know. And I think you're right. Time will tell. The Sounders do, you know, they they've been very competitive. Let's put that right out in front.
01:00:24
Speaker
But we can all see areas where... a little bit more money would be useful. You know, like right now they're looking at a U22. I would think that if they're not willing to spend three to 5 million on U22, I don't quite see the point because I don't know that you can get a player who's going to cost less than that for, that's going to actually be an upgrade over the players that they have.
01:00:49
Speaker
So if you're not willing to spend that money, then what, like, like what what are we doing here? Right. And so I think these are things that we're going to find out, but at the same time, if they're competitive, I guess he's, he's got enough money, right?
01:01:06
Speaker
guess they're still competitive, but ah yeah, I mean, this is the, these next few years are going to be very interesting to see ah what the sounders want to be. Yeah.
01:01:19
Speaker
Two more. Next one is from Nate and a d In hindsight, was splitting from the Seahawks in 2020 2014 a mistake?
Sounders-Seahawks Separation: A Mistake?
01:01:26
Speaker
I think it might change the team's relationship with first and goal. i I have thought about this a fair amount, and i think it was still probably the right decision, especially when you think of where we were in 2014.
01:01:39
Speaker
I don't think you had NFL teams that were, you did not have ah any examples of NFL teams that were treating their MLS team like as co-equal partners in the relationship.
01:01:54
Speaker
And I think the Sounders needed to go out on their own. It may have hurt their relationship with first and goal, but in a lot of ways, like, and don't know, and in big ways, I don't know if the Sounders...
01:02:08
Speaker
you know, the centers don't have a great relationship with first and goal, but was their relationship, how good was their relationship before? Right? Like they weren't, they still didn't have access to a lot of the revenue streams that they want. Now it may be concessions were a little bit better, but other than that, I don't, I don't know that the, you know,
01:02:29
Speaker
the like the state of the organization was really better off in the pre, you know, in the, when the they were partners with the Seahawks.
01:02:42
Speaker
I do think that a lot of the little things were handled much better. Like, yes, I would agree with that. example, season ticket packages were much nicer and slicker.
01:02:53
Speaker
um Like all of that kind of stuff I feel like was better. I do think the DMD experience was better as well. um But i like I wonder how much that would have remained. I feel like that was still pretty good through 2018, 2019, though. I agree.
01:03:09
Speaker
i agree. And I also wonder how much of that would have stayed true in a post-Paul Allen world. Because Paul Allen was, by all accounts, not super invested in the Sounders from an emotional perspective, but was very keenly aware of how important they were as an investment vehicle and wanted them to be successful.
01:03:26
Speaker
um And I don't get the sense that that is true of of the folks managing his his estate. So, um yeah. And i I also have always kind of been under the impression that it was not something that could last forever.
01:03:43
Speaker
Right. that And I think it had an expiration date, too. Yeah. Yeah. And so maybe maybe it would have been better if they had been able to so stick it out. I don't know.
01:03:54
Speaker
um I think you make a pretty good case that it probably wouldn't have been but i think it had to at some point so but it it is i mean it it is it's a interesting counterfactual it is it's interesting to think back to what that experience was like in you know 2013 2014 and and how it differs in the ways in which it was better but i think a lot of the time when you do that you forget the ways in which it was worse as well and and there there were some of those for sure yeah
01:04:22
Speaker
All right. We're going to end on D tolls. And he says, what are your expected score lines for each of the centers club world cup matches? And what's your expected likelihood? The centers get any sort of result across the three matches.
01:04:36
Speaker
So I am in the minority. i do not think a lot of people are acting like,
01:04:47
Speaker
There is no chance they get any points from any of these games. And I think I'm not going to say that they're favorites to beat Botafogo. i do not think Botafogo is in anywhere near the same class as PSG or Atletico.
01:04:59
Speaker
No, um no, it's not. It's not even close. And the Sounders have beaten. ah i'm not sure that that I think Botafogo is better than some of the Liga and McKees teams that the Sounders beat at home. Yeah.
01:05:16
Speaker
I just, i don't know. I think that that is a winnable game, and I think it's probably reasonable to expect a point out of that game um or to think that that's, you know, a reasonable target.
01:05:29
Speaker
I don't think they're going to get out of the group. I think that's pretty, you know, that that's not going out on a limb to say that. um But I'll say 2-1 against...
01:05:40
Speaker
against Botafogo and they win that one. wo Saucy. Why not? if If they lose, so what? Who cares? Yeah, no, I like it. i like it. um I'll say.
01:05:53
Speaker
i'm going to say one nil against Atletico Madrid. um I don't know. a A loss or a win? A loss. They're going to lose that game. They're not going to score. they're They're not going to score in that game. Okay, okay fair enough.
01:06:08
Speaker
And I will say...
01:06:15
Speaker
4-2 against PSG. Whoa! PSG is going to score a grip of goals and they could score 7. um But PSG does not know how to take the foot off the gas.
01:06:28
Speaker
It's just not. It is in their DNA and so I think that the Sounders could, you know, and also p she is not putting out the team they put against center. No, I think that's a key pitch.
01:06:40
Speaker
Yeah, this is probably, I mean, a couple of things work in the Sounders favor in the PSG game. One is there's a just starting from scratch, PSG is probably not going to be playing their first team, maybe in any of these group stage games.
01:06:58
Speaker
These guys just came out of a, pretty long season. i got to imagine if they can give them an extra week off, they're going to get an extra week off. Yeah.
01:07:10
Speaker
There's also a possibility that they have already clinched ah advancement in that game. Yeah. Which, so i don't know, it's possible the Sounders are facing like their third team, really. ah Right. And so PSG's third team still very, very good, but sure you know, probably not seven zero good.
01:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, the the other thing, too, PSG ps she is i think.
01:07:39
Speaker
One of the best teams in the world. i don't think there's any. I think whoever has his last one, the UEFA Champions League is one of the best teams in the world. that I don't think there's any real question about that. Yeah, I don't think that's very controversial.
01:07:50
Speaker
But they also lost two mediocre league teams this year ah and in in big games, right? Like they didn't lose their first league game until April 25th. And they lost to Nice at home.
01:08:05
Speaker
And Nice, I think, finished. Well, they were fourth in Ligue 1. not a bad team, but certainly a team PSG would expect to beat at home. ah They lost to Strasbourg. Strasbourg finished seventh.
01:08:19
Speaker
So, you know, mid mid-table Ligue 1 teams, the kind of teams that PSG would expect to beat, right? And these are these are big games. um They also beat Inter Milan 5-0.
01:08:31
Speaker
They won one of their Champions League knockouts by a 10-0 aggregate. So, you know, could go. Things could get ugly. They could. They could. But I don't know, man.
01:08:44
Speaker
ah yeah I think also PSG is what they are. PSG is their PR project for a Petro state with functionally unlimited money.
01:08:57
Speaker
you can't compete with that. Like you you just can't. and And anybody who is a fan of the Sounders because they want to see the best soccer in the world is barking up the wrong tree.
01:09:09
Speaker
Right. and MLS is a ah good league that I love deeply and watch more than any other league, but it's MLS, you know, it's, it's not in the same stratosphere as as, the best teams in the world.
01:09:22
Speaker
And that's fine. Like the value is in supporting your local team and, being involved in your your local soccer community. Yeah. um But, you know, you're probably not going to beat PSG in the Club World Cup.
01:09:35
Speaker
Well, I'll just say i would happily take that collection of results. Because if the Sounders can get a win in this, I think that would be a huge feather in their cap.
01:09:48
Speaker
Frankly, if they can get a point from the group stage, I think that's a pretty notable accomplishment. If they can be even remotely competitive with that Let It Go and PSG, I think that has to be considered and accomplishment.
01:10:01
Speaker
I'll just say I think you're i think you are more optimistic than I am for the results, so but I am hopeful. i would i would absolutely love it. I don't want to diminish the possibility of that either.
01:10:12
Speaker
So I'm going to leave it at that and let your predictions stand for the both of us. um Great. And that's it. That's that's all our questions. I'll take it. Botafogo ninth place in Serie A. Yeah, they are. I was just looking at their their roster and it's it's not exactly. I mean, it's a it's a fine roster, but it is is definitely a team that the Sounders should feel like they can be competitive against. I mean, most of the guys on this roster are either, you know, ah d you know, good to very good MLS players, but not, you know,
01:10:46
Speaker
not necessarily players who you would think are going to be, you know, just torching the league or anything. Yeah. Get Jefferson Sabarino on the team. Right.
01:10:57
Speaker
Who plays a fair amount for them. Yeah. Yeah. Good, play good player. The player, he is a good player, but you know, not like, uh, do they have any national team players on their team?
01:11:09
Speaker
Brazilian national team. Thanks. So at least not for the, you know, the A team necessarily. Um, but, uh, yeah. Oh, Wikipedia is, uh, links are going to places. I not expecting. Cause I was going to try to answer that question.
01:11:28
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, mean like Igor Jesus has, you know, he's got some national team. He's got four national team caps in the current qualifying cycle. So it's like, they've got some guys that are fringy part of the team.
01:11:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Alex Tellis obviously was a pretty big star um for a while there. But then they've also got Gregor. Right. and Gregory.
01:11:54
Speaker
greg Is that how you say it? Gregory? I think it's Gregory. Yeah. i The former guy that we, yeah, that that we passed on signing to to sign. To sign Joe Paulo. And Joe Paulo, you figure, is going to be very motivated against Motofogo. So maybe he'll get a start in that one.
01:12:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But so, yeah, I mean, they they could also come in here and waxes three. No, I'm not. Yeah, right. Of course, I'm not. But I just I think that they've been built up to be.
01:12:21
Speaker
Better than they actually are more, more intimidating than actually are. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they they won Copa America, which is great. They did. gopa Sorry, Copa Libertadores.
01:12:33
Speaker
But. um They are not the same team. No, they've lost they lost like a lot of players, I think, from from that team, right? So, yeah.
01:12:44
Speaker
All right. Well, ah that's a good place, I think, to call this. um Thank you to our sponsors, Full Pull Wines, Hacks and Ferments. Of course, our ah readers who are continuing to support this project that we are going through right now. And it's been a lot of fun.
01:13:01
Speaker
Hopefully people are enjoying all the content. ah Hope to see some of you out on the discord. If you are new to there, please reach out, say hi. We're also, of course, everywhere else. Anyway, I'm rambling now.
01:13:15
Speaker
ah But thank you to everyone for listening and supporting. I am Jeremiah Oshan signing off for Aaron Campbell and Lickett. This is no study at this. And remember, you'll never get out alone.
01:13:52
Speaker
I expect the LAFC who is motivated ah to prove themselves at home, to prove to their fans that that they're capable of winning in this league. And it's up to us to really ruin the party.
01:14:08
Speaker
i feel a lot better than Bob.