Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Behind the Chair with myself, Lauren Garford. I'm a professional hair and makeup artist, and I'm going to be talking about life beyond the makeup chair, busting some beauty myths, gossiping with guests about our makeup icks, and getting down to the reality of the beauty industry, the good, the bad, and the icky. So today's guest is Katie. Hello, Katie. How are you? Hello. I'm good. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. So we actually haven't met in real life, have we? We met on the interweb.
Speaker: onto internet. We are part of a group, aren't we? You're on the vibe, aren't you? Oh, very much, yeah. Yeah, so if you listen to a recent podcast with Zoe, she is the founder of the vibe, and basically you get to meet other make -about -us, don't you? Make -about -us that you wouldn't necessarily meet, and vibe with.
Speaker: and have a community because we're all, we're all on our own. And that's the main reason I joined the resources that she gives her amazing. But, you know, I'm, I have no one to have a Christmas party with. I do everything myself in my business, have no one to bounce things off. That is, that is what the vibe is for me. It's having a little family, it's having a team.
Speaker: And it's invaluable. Like I don't do all of the lead. That is part of the reason why I joined is also because with Zoe, she has a really similar sense of humor to me. And I just love that she doesn't take herself too seriously. And I just really connect with a lot of other girls as well. I like that on the, on the vibes. They're like, don't hit themselves too seriously, but it's good to vibe off other people. And also like in terms of business, you can ask business questions and stuff like that as well, can't you? And so tell me, obviously,
Speaker: We haven't said this, but you do hair and makeup, don't you? Or do you do just makeup? I do mainly makeup. I will do hair if I need to, but my speciality is makeup, for sure. Right. Okay. Tell me about how you got into makeup, why it all started, and tell me about that. So I'm in my 27th year of doing makeup.
Speaker: And it literally, like I joke and I say, it's genuinely like my only life skill. Like, thank goodness I could make a career out of it because I have not developed any other skills. There was nothing else I could have gone into. And I started getting into makeup as a really young age. My mum was a makeup counter girl before she met my dad and had me. And so I grew up, my mum was so glamorous and I grew up looking at her putting her makeup on.
Speaker: her dressing table in the 70s and 80s and I just fell in love with it and when I was about nine I had a horrific case of very young hormonal acne and back then I'm talking like the mid 80s there was nothing out there like there is today I had to like mix things from my mum's dressing table to try and cover my makeup
Speaker: And I just got really into the kind of the bones of makeup I started to buy. I think I saved up and I bought Kevin or Kwan's Making Faces book. And I just got really into the supermodels and I started to do my friend's makeup. And I did my A levels and then I was I actually had a place at London College of Fashion to go and do like I think it was like a three year diploma. But I took a year out to work to earn some money. And I was already doing part time work on makeup counters like as my Saturday job.
Speaker: and I started to work for this little department store on the makeup counters covering a counter each day because it was so small it was just one girl counters and I fell in love with working I fell in love with working on makeup counters in department stores and just before I was meant to start London College of Fashion I was approached by one of the brands that wanted me to work for them it was Longcom and I never went to London College of Fashion I just carried on working and I
Speaker: worked. I basically jumped from makeup brand to makeup brand like a good two or three years with each. Always ended up on the training teams. And then in 2004, I joined Laura Mercier cosmetics. That was my final brand I was with and I was with her for
Speaker: eight years or seven or eight years and I worked my way up until I was on her global training team and a global makeup artist, travelled the world, it's incredible, met my husband, got engaged, got married and left and started my own business and that was 15 years ago that I launched my bridal business and had my babies and that's it. I'm just
Speaker: I'm so lucky that I am doing for a living what I wanted to do when I was at school. I don't know anybody else that's managed to do that. I'm so grateful for it, but at the same time, if it ever fell apart, I don't know what else I could do. You must have another skill. I'm really good at parking.
Speaker: Like, that's something I'm really good at. I can't cook. I could do social media or something like that, but you know, I'm just... Yeah, social media. This is my home. I'm like, I'm wallowing. I'm just... I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do and I love every minute of it. Bar my taxes, because I hate that part. But yeah, I'm just... I was literally just about to ask you.
Speaker: What do you dislike? Because you've said what you love about it, which is great. What do you dislike about the industry? Is taxes the only thing? No, it's not the only thing, to be honest. It's not the only thing. I love the freedom of being self -employed, but at the same time, I hate being self -employed because it is just, it's hard work. I have, and I've been talking, I think I've talked about this a little bit on the vibe and I've spoken to Zoe about this, but I'm in the middle of getting, I'm 100%.
Speaker: 100 % certain is an ADHD diagnosis. And so for me keeping if, if, if my makeup world, if my job is going well, if my kit is organized, if I'm my, I'm up to date with my admin, the rest of my life has basically just like gone to crap. Like I have a very limited amount of, of brain energy I can put into organization.
Speaker: my job is so important to me, that everything else kind of gets sacrificed. So it's, it's being self employed is all or nothing, you can't do it and just give it, you know, give it a rough go, you have to give it everything and my, my job isn't
Speaker: hobby money, it's not pocket money, it's I pay half the bills. And so the pressure and you can't let it go, you can't be complacent, you have to constantly be on top of it. And I think I hate that it takes so much of my energy. But at the same time, I don't think I could do it if I didn't give it all my energy, like the organization part of it, the admin, I do everything I can to make it easy for me. Because it doesn't come naturally, like it takes so much of my brainpower to keep organized. And
Speaker: And where I fall down is I don't, my money management is terrible. I'm always skint at Christmas, always. And after this amount of time, you think I'd have learned to be better with it, but I'm not. And I just think that's just, um, that's just who I am. I am a bit chaotic and I am a bit compulsive and I am a bit, but that's why I'm good at my job at the same time. So I can't see it changing anytime soon.
Speaker: got to sort of learn to embrace the good and the bad haven't you because you kind of you don't always get the bad and the good at the same time. The chaotic part of me is why I am who I am and why I'm so good because I feel like the chaotic side and the creativity side for me go hand in hand and if I wasn't that way then I wouldn't be able to to be the makeup artist that I am today so it's it's been a bit of a learning curve like learning all about
Speaker: why my brain works a certain way and also why my brain doesn't work the way I wanted it to work for years. It's made me it's made me be really become so much better at my job than I think I would be if I had it all kind of laid out easily for me. So it just I've got to the stage now where I'm just like it just is what it is, take it or leave it. Yeah. You mentioned that you've managed to sort of
Speaker: figure out little tricks of how you keep yourself organized. You said that you figured sort of a way around that. What's your little, can you share any little tricks? So on an admin side, I create CRM systems and I know that everyone's talking about them now, but I've had them for years because I would do a job and I would forget to invoice people and most people are honest, but there are some people that aren't honest and I would do myself out of money and
Speaker: get stuck in my head about, you know, I don't want to invoice somebody. And it's ridiculous because you have to invoice people because it's, you know, it's why we do it. We do it because we want to earn money. But when you are doing something that you love, it's this little guilt. So if I take that away, I don't get in my head about it. The minute that job is done, my system knows and they get sent an invoice. And with my kit,
Speaker: In theory, the way that I live, like my bedroom is clean, but it's cluttered. It's chaotic, right? My house is hanging. Sometimes it looks like we've been done by pirates. It's clean, but it's disorganized sometimes. My kit is the opposite. My kit is so fastidiously organized to the point where it's
Speaker: like people comment on it, other makeup artists comment on it, because if I don't have it to that extreme, it would just go to pot. So I kind of have to really hone in on something that almost keeps my attention, like it's that focus that I can lose, everything goes on this. And I sacrifice time with my children, I sacrifice time with my friends, because if I don't give it 100%, I would probably give it 10 % and then it wouldn't work.
Speaker: It's just learning that I have to, it has to be everything for me or I'll probably lose focus and then it will just, I'll lose my business. Wow. That sounds like a lot of pressure. It's tiring. It is tiring, but it's one of the things I've, one of the reasons why I tried to get my, I'm trying to get my ADHD diagnosis is my hyperfixations on things. Like you may have seen, I hear people say, you know,
Speaker: people with ADHD start hobbies. I started makeup and it is one of my hyper -fixations and that is how I've managed to stay at it. 27 years is a long time to do one thing, but because I'm allowing myself to say it is one of my hyper -fixations, I'm not embarrassed about it anymore. I've embraced it, but I have to give it 100 % because otherwise I'll hyper -fixate on something else.
Speaker: And I can't because it's my business. It's just understanding my brain and using it to my advantage rather than letting it tire me out. Well, I mean, it's impressive that you've figured that out. It takes a while, doesn't it, to figure everything out? If.
Speaker: God forbid you couldn't do makeup anymore, you'd probably go into social media. You're doing really well on TikTok and you had a recent viral video, didn't you? Yeah, I started TikTok a while ago and then I just left it because it didn't come, it wasn't instinctive to me. I think TikTok is very much a Gen Z and onwards fueled social media app. Instagram is much more instinctive to me, but
Speaker: I decided to kind of plug at it and persevere. My long -term goal with TikTok is I want to earn enough money from TikTok to tide me over my next out of bridal, basically tide me over from October to kind of like March next year. That's my long -term goal. And I just had some videos that did reasonably well, some that didn't do really well. And then a few weeks ago, I just went and sat in my daughter's room and she's 12 and I did my makeup in there because my husband was asleep in the bedroom.
Speaker: And I just did a video that said I'm doing my makeup in my 12 year old's bedroom. And I thought maybe go through a makeup bag and see what I can play with. And as I did it, I made a comment about my the mirror being too low. And I was looking around the room for a book to kind of like prop it up. And then I realized that there's no books because 12 year olds don't read. Right. It was a silly comment. Well, I awoke every angry 12 year old on TikTok.
Speaker: And every bookie person on TikTok, I am a book person, so I was like, you know, back off.
Speaker: nothing for a week and then all of a sudden I was sitting downstairs with my eldest and we were my youngest had gone to bed and I looked at my phone and I was like holy shit my it suddenly had 200 ,000 views and I clicked on it and about 50 people had shared it but the comments and the reason why I think it just got such a good traction was I committed to answering every single comment on there. Was that a little paper fixation?
Speaker: was a hyper fixation and I couldn't stop myself but because because it was about my daughter and I was it was why's your 12 year old got makeup what your 12 year old doesn't read she dumb and so I couldn't let it go and but it kept it the more you comment on TikTok and the more you interact it keeps it and it was on people's for you page for weeks and it finished at about like 1 .6 million
Speaker: plays and I went from having 400 followers to all of a sudden within a week I had 8 ,000 followers and then I could go into the comments from that and I could do reply videos and that was really good and I started to really then hyperfixate on TikTok and started watching TikTok coaches and just trying to get a strategy together and then I had another one go kind of viral
Speaker: but all of my other videos on there have suddenly picked up steam. And now I'm doing about three videos a day. And like I've committed to it, I say committed, I've hyper fixated on it, Lauren. And I've forgotten about Instagram, which is not good. But I'm enjoying it. You know, I am enjoying it. And I've just got to make sure that I can keep it going through the summer. Yeah, I like I started in February trying to post on TikTok. And I just feel like I don't really know
Speaker: what people go there for, if you know what I mean? Because it's a different platform, isn't it, to Instagram? It's complete. And people go there for different reasons, don't they? To know what, it's like the new Google for a lot of people. So I was at first, I was like, Oh my God, like I'm 45. No one's going to be, I'm not looking for bridal clients on there. That's very, very important to point out. I don't think my bridal clients are on, I know they're not on TikTok. And if they are, they're not looking for me. And that's fine. It's a different kind of sides of my business.
Speaker: But what was my point? The point is the good thing about TikTok and why it's working for me, my video, when I look at my statistics, it's always 98 to 99 % of people that viewed my videos found me on the For You page. So I'm being shown to new people every single day. So I can repeat my, I can do the same makeup trick every single week.
Speaker: and new people will see it. And if people have seen it before, they'll just scroll past. So you get a new audience every single week. And I'm now like 13 and a half, nearly 14 ,000 followers. And I get about another one to 200 new followers a day. And that's not because I'm always posting because I'm getting followers from content from like two months ago, because it's constantly showing you in the more active you are on it. Like it is work because you generate the more interest you generate and the more active you are on TikTok, the more it shows
Speaker: to people. So in this time that I am right now with it, I feel like I'm in the feeding process, like I'm feeding TikTok, like showing it that I'm interested, I'm interacting with other accounts, I'm interacting with my comments, until I get enough traction that it should hopefully kind of start to flow, I'd like to get paid ads from it. But I'm putting the work in now.
Speaker: And it is worth it. There's a lot of 45 year old women on there like me, I have found actually. So I think everyone's on it. It's just, it's, it's run by a very young kind of young type of company. So it just, it's not familiar for us, but there's room for everyone. When you said like TikTok, I mean, earlier in the conversation you said about sort of Gen Z and TikTok, but I am not a Gen Zer.
Speaker: I'm on the cusp of, I'm in the end of Millennial. I think that's what I am. So I'm like actually on the cusp of being a Gen Z but I'm not, I'm definitely not. So yeah, so I actually think like on TikTok, the most refreshing accounts personally that I watch are actually older people because I'm more likely to listen to an older person.
Speaker: than I am take advice. I don't, I'm not as likely to take advice from someone younger than me or my age necessarily, depends on what it is. Do you, there's an account, I'm the problem, I think it's called. Oh, she's amazing. She's awesome, isn't she? She's great. She's brilliant. And she's really clever. And so I've been watching people who break down really successful Tiktokers. And she is, she's not telling you, she's not showing you anything of value. She's telling you stories. Yeah, I'm shit at telling stories though.
Speaker: But you know what, you don't, you, it depends. I've got a lot of things that have happened in my life that are just hilariously awkward. And, you know, so I started doing that now every few things, I'll do curly hair content on there. I do makeup content on there. And then I do storytime and I don't call it storytime, but as I'm doing my makeup, I will talk about, and that was another one of the videos that went viral. I talked about a silly rule that my daughter's school had put in place about them not wearing leggings because it was embarrassed on a wear what you like day.
Speaker: girls weren't allowed to wear leggings unless they had a t -shirt coming down to their mid thigh. And I was enraged and I just went on and did my makeup and was like, how do you feel about it? And that skyrocketed as well, because it was just controversial storytelling, yeah, and opinions. And so I'm starting to do those every so often and just trying to get, just I'm stealing other people's ideas and making it work for me. But that is what all of social media is. There's nothing new out there.
Speaker: You just have to find what works for you and what captures your audience. I think you've hit the nail on the head and like there's nothing new out there. However, it's I guess what separates you from everything else is just you.
Speaker: Like, because everyone's different really, aren't they? Like, nobody's got the same face or the same, you know, accent, like we were talking about accents before we lost record on this and like, everyone's accent is so different. Like you said, your husband's from down the road from where I am, but has a different accent. But this is the thing and the feedback that I've had so far, and it turns out actually TikTok is really good, if I could be really honest,
Speaker: when you work on your own you don't get much validation from people because you don't have like a team around you but TikTok is very validating you get some awful comments like I have had some awful people say awful things to me but every time someone comes on and says you've changed my life with this skincare trick I will listen to everything you say because you're so real you seem like you really understand me I have never found anyone who could show me makeup tricks that weren't all you know trendy that is
Speaker: I'm not saying it's worth doing it for free, but that will fuel me now. It's that validation that I'm helping people and that actually I do know what I'm talking about. That imposter syndrome sneaks in. People are very open to saying what they want to say on TikTok, nicely or not. I block people. The minute somebody snarky to me, have absolutely no time for it. I won't entertain arguments. I block. You know. How do you deal with that though? Because I think.
Speaker: if I'm being totally honest, I think I adorn post as much because I'm terrified of the trolls. So that's, that's, I mean, I don't know how old you are, but I'm, I wouldn't say I'm like old and wise, but I am, I don't want to swear, but I am at that age where I'm just like, honestly,
Speaker: F around and find out. I have no tolerance for it anymore because nothing anybody says to me online is worse than A, something somebody has said to me in the past, or B, things I've not said to myself in the past when I have been going through stages where I was mean to myself. You know, we all say some of the worst things I've heard are things that I've said in my head. I won't take
Speaker: somebody wants to say I've got a big nose, I know I've got a big nose, like I know it's in the middle of my face, but I've got to have heard all of it. Why don't you come to your nose, big nose? The best one was on the video that I did in my daughter's room where someone just left like multiple comments in a row and it just said, why does grandma doing makeup?
Speaker: it's kind of funny but this kid was probably like 14 like genuinely probably looked at me and thought because when you're 14 and you look at someone it's 45 you do why are you ancient and still why haven't you laid down and died yet like I know that there's a massive
Speaker: difference between the people that might accidentally see my videos but I just I don't take it to heart and I just I don't I don't focus on it I don't focus on it
Speaker: And I know I'm opening myself up for that, but it's nothing that I've never heard of before. That's the thing. I do think when you, I mean, you're in a sort of vulnerable position being online and like you do open yourself up to criticism, but I guess that's just like with anything, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. But thank you for that. It's a real like wisdom there. Thanks. I feel like I'm getting a like coaching session with you. Oh God. I might nod you.
Speaker: So, do you feel like the fame has changed you? Yeah, I mean, it's really hard. It's so funny because I genuinely have had people come up and say, I've seen you on TikTok. And I go, no.
Speaker: In the shops, where has that happened? In Tesco's, but look, I'm very noticeable. There's not many other people that have my hair shape or my voice. I've been hammering it hard and I always tag my location, so I'm obviously showing up in local people's videos.
Speaker: If you come up to me outside, you come up to me in Tesco's, it will be the most awkwardly uncomfortable encounter for both of us, because in a room when I'm doing people's hair and makeup confident, on TikToks, Instagrams, Facebook Lives, confident, on things like this, confident, out in the real world, I'm just so uncomfortable. I'm such an introvert. Like, this is my happy bubble in my bedroom. I've got all my products and my windows. Oh, this is where I film.
Speaker: I'm happy, but the minute I go and I have to talk to people outside of my comfort zone, it's uncomfortable, not just for me, but for other people, because it's just, I give off this energy of just, it's not my strength. So. Really? That shocks me. That's what I said to you, didn't it?
Speaker: really so but you did years in retail but you were okay there because you were in your happy place in terms of makeup and you knew what you were talking about absolutely and I was with a team and I was I was it's not like role playing a role but I can very easily go from being uncomfortable in a coffee shop to going into a store and commanding attention and talking okay with public speaking can't do house parties can't do um
Speaker: stuff like that where I have to talk to lots of people. Really? Yeah. That does shock me. He seems so confident. But then I went to, I've been to one vibe day at a Charlotte Tilbury event and I sat in my car. Did we meet? Did we? And then everyone went off to a coffee shop to do some working. We may have done
Speaker: I wasn't there that day when they went to the coffee shop one. I went a bit then I couldn't stay because I had to go and pick up my kids but I sat in my car and I drove I drove there and I was like I had to give myself a pep talk like they people will be nice to you Katie you're not gonna say anything stupid you probably won't fall over and it doesn't matter if you don't you know I had to and then I I was fine once I get in there because I'm very good at pretending
Speaker: But it's just like, you can't assume, I'm very good at pretending to be very confident. For years I thought I was an extrovert, but actually I'm very, very much an introvert who has learned how to pretend to be much more confident. I can relate to that. I know exactly what you mean. I'm very, very, very good at hiding. If I'm nervous, nobody would know. Literally not a single person in the room would know that I was nervous. I just look like really excited and happy.
Speaker: But I'm like shitting myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So do you think you now understand the elusive recipe that it takes to actually go viral? Or do you still think that you're like, who knows? I don't know. It was maybe just
Speaker: right time wrote please sort of thing. I think I've understood that it's consistency and momentum and I've also understood the logistics of it. You have to have a written
Speaker: a written queue and you have to capture their attention in the first three seconds, which is why I don't come along and go, hey guys, because people just go and like scroll on. So I think I've understood that it's whether I can keep the momentum going and commit to it, because I'm also trying to build my curly Instagram account and that's actually
Speaker: that I think I'm about to hit 700 followers, but I've already had a paid ad from that, but I find that harder, way harder to grow. So it's just trying to kind of do them simultaneously. I think it will continue to grow. I've just got to make sure I don't lose interest or burn out. Yeah. Do you think TikTok is a long form, more of a storytelling platform? Yes. Do you want to know the analogy of how I figured it out? So, you know, when you meet somebody new,
Speaker: and you get that first friendship and it's like, they don't really know much about you. And you show them what you want to show them. That's my makeup by Katie Instagram. I show people what I want them to see. I show them my work. I show them me occasionally. And then you get further into the friendship and you kind of, you know, you get to know each other a bit more and you kind of truly let, like you let yourself go a little bit more. That's my curly hair Instagram. I'm much funnier on it. I'm much sillier.
Speaker: And then when you get to that friendship where you're just like, you just like ride or die friends and you are truly your unhinged self, that's me on TikTok. I share everything out there. I do makeup tips. I do hair. I don't mind if I swear.
Speaker: I'm not looking to get bridal clients. I'm just truly being weird as shit, Katie. And I can't be that on my bridal makeup Instagram because when people say go into it, be yourself. I can't actually be myself. Sometimes I'm quite mad. But I can be that on TikTok because I'm really, I'm not trying to get anyone to buy anything from me. I'm just at the moment. So I'm really enjoying it. Like I'm really myself over there.
Speaker: and it's really liberating. I was going to say that's really liberating and like you're lucky that you've gotten to that position where you feel like really comfortable and you can be yourself. What have you learned since all of this doing TikTok? What have you learned? What's the one takeaway that you would say? Man, you've got to be organized because it takes time.
Speaker: Like, it takes time. The amount of time that I'm spending on creating curly hair content, working in my makeup world, getting pictures, sort of, you know, and doing video. I've had to, I've had to let a lot of things go. Yeah, I've had to let a lot of things go. I also, I don't, I haven't had a day off where I've done nothing in months, months and months and months.
Speaker: Um, I will need to get much better at my time management. So that's what I've learned that I'm not as good at it as I could be. I should be time blocking. I should be allocating Monday and Tuesday to TikTok, Wednesday to my makeup, Instagram, Thursday to this Friday to housework, but I'm not. I just go at it all at the same time. And then somehow it all kind of comes together, but I could probably do better if I was more organized, but it's easier for me to just do it chaotically.
Speaker: and get it done than be organized. So maybe when it gets bigger, I'll probably need to get somebody to help me. Like I'll have to bring my sister on or something to be like schedule something for me, do something for me. I'll need to outsource something because I know my limitations and I know how my brain works and I'm never going to be slick. No. So it's not your personality. I just don't have it in me. I don't have the capacity to do it. And I'm not even embarrassed about it anymore.
Speaker: I need somebody to tether me so I can truly get chaotic. And somebody to do that work for me and be like, right, I've said you do this. You have three posts that you need to create. So, yeah, I'd like to get there one day.
Speaker: Yeah, you will, you'll get there. I believe in you. Oh, thanks. Can we also just take a moment for your hair? Oh, thanks. Because it is a thing of true beauty and I don't know how you do it. Well, I kind of do, but I just like, I feel like it is such a, it's quite a hard thing to master your curl technique, isn't it? Because everybody's curl pattern is different.
Speaker: Like, where do you even start?
Speaker: My hair has come into its own, I would say in the past kind of like two to three years. I have always had curly hair, obviously through the 90s. I did horrific things to it in the name of trying to look like Posh Spice and stuff like that. But yeah, I know I had a pixie cut at one time and like, no, I barely any eyebrows. I was a true 90s kid. I, where did I, so I started watching curly Instagrams, like curly influencers, curlfluencers, I don't know what they call themselves.
Speaker: And I started to follow the curly girl method like everyone does when they go into the curly hair world. Did it for a little bit.
Speaker: had my eldest daughter, completely lost my curls after I had her. By the time she was 18 months, the hormones had wrecked my hair so much that my hair was straight, straighter than it had ever been. And then once I stopped breastfeeding her, my hormones returned to normal. My curls started to come back. When I had my second daughter, I was like, all right, I'm going to research the absolute. I'm going to hyperfixate on this.
Speaker: until I understand it completely so that it doesn't happen again and that's what I did. I just followed everyone who looked like they had a similar curl pattern to me, understood the difference between what my hair wants and what they tell you that curly hair wants. I sometimes don't even condition my hair and that's the opposite of what people think that curly hair needs. I learned about my hair trial and error
Speaker: and documented everything like my phone, you know, when people are like, God, don't look at my phone, my phone is full of my own face, like my camera roll. It's so embarrassing if people look at it. It's just thousands upon thousands of pictures of me. And I write down what I used. And I figured out I learned about the science behind it, like a proper hyper fixation, and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker: Um, and then I decided probably about two years too late to really have a big impactful account. I started my curly Instagram account, but I've already done paid ads over there. So it's still, you know, something that I can do. And I just, I let it become my whole personality and I'm fine with that. You know, I mean, your hair's amazing. Like I actually haven't, like you say you followed people that had a similar curl pattern to you. I haven't seen anyone.
Speaker: with a similar curl pattern to me because mine doesn't make any sense. Mine's not like, it's definitely not tight curls. It's more of a, well, like some of them are, some of them are like, hello. And then some of them are just like. But that's the same with me Lauren. But mine doesn't look, I honestly don't think mine looks good curly. Cause I went through like a moment in lockdown of like embracing the curly girl method, tried that.
Speaker: didn't really work for me. I tried not washing it and just conditioning it didn't really work for me. I tried a few different things and nothing seemed to work for my hair like and it either made it too curly like and I don't think it looked very good or it like made it too crispy. I just have no idea what works for my hair basically enough. Maybe we can troubleshoot it. We can troubleshoot
Speaker: it's one of those things though if you've been straightening your hair for years like anything sometimes you have to just move past the damage and if you straighten hair repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly the curl bonds will break down and it won't curl properly um but it doesn't have to listen nobody has to take
Speaker: you don't have to take it as seriously as I've taken it but there's always a solution. The curly girl my sit is a good place to start for people to start focusing on their curls but nobody needs to not shampoo their hair for that long it's not good and there's always there's always options but actually everyone has but I still have bad curl days I just don't put my face up when I have
Speaker: are different and when I do have a good curl day I take thousands of pictures and put it everywhere because I'm but that's that's that's normal so it's so bouncy your hair and shiny it's just freshly washed it's beautiful thank you look at that bounce even when you just do that it's like do you know how many times a day I do that I'm sticking my fingers for anyone who can't see I'm sticking my fingers in my scalp and I like massage it and it's sometimes people tell me it looks like a wig
Speaker: I shake my I shake my hair out honestly about 20 times a day it's so pretty my boyfriend has the prettiest curls like it's so annoying and he doesn't really have to do much to it and it's just like these beautiful like ringlets oh nice it's very annoying yeah
Speaker: it's effortless he doesn't he doesn't really do any of the method he might put a little bit of cream in it like but he's not doing much to it oh it's okay it's probably got no heat damage this is a thing no it hasn't got any heat damage yeah so he's just got really healthy curls yeah that's true actually that's a really good point yeah
Speaker: Basically my hair is unhealthy, is that what you said? My hair was unhealthy when I started doing this because I wasn't taking care of it. I was over moisturising my hair.
Speaker: which can have the same effect as when you don't hydrate your hair enough. So it's learning to understand it. Hair is so not straight down the line. The minute I go to somewhere, if I go to a hotel room and I use a soft water shower head, that's it. My hair has gone to crap. I have to put so much protein and so much hold back in. And if the clouds are slightly different, if it's misty out, it's not easy. It's a lot of maintenance.
Speaker: I enjoy it. I get the odd client in who is randomly like, I want to get a perm. And I'm like, don't do it. Because I feel like they think that they'll get it permed and then they'll just have this lovely curly hair. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Doesn't work like that. You've got to maintain it. Actually look after it. Maintain it exactly. And you've got to like,
Speaker: put the right products in and let it dry properly and all this. And I think people don't realise that when they're getting a perm. No, when people say, you're so lucky, do you just wake up and look like this? I'm like, no, I sleep in a bonnet. I wake up and I look like Henry VIII. Big thing. I don't wake up looking like this at all. But the alternative is I blow dry it straight.
Speaker: And that's another ball ache. So this is my it's sort of like the lesser of two. This isn't a this isn't a hardship for me. I enjoy taking care of my hair. It's myself. It's the only self care really that I do. It's fun. I like it. And I've got two straight haired children. How did that happen? Yeah, what the hell? And then
Speaker: Just to basically wrap things up, I always do a quick fast fire round. Quick fast? Quick fire round. But before I do the quick fire round, is there anything else that you'd like to share? Listen, the makeup world is, I am so defensive and so protective of the beauty industry. My biggest, if I could change one thing about it, it's the perception of it to other people. The amount of times people have assumed that I'm stupid,
Speaker: or said to me, couldn't you get into university? Or just assume that this is my second choice because I'm not smart enough to do anything else. If I had a pound for every time somebody did that, I would be very, very wealthy.
Speaker: I think this is one of the most treasured industries. We don't realise the impact that we have on other people's lives, not just weddings or beauty. You have to be a certain type of person to be a makeup artist. And I just think we are undervalued what we do for other people.
Speaker: It's so hard to do. Honestly, whenever I see a struggling makeup artist, I just want to scoop her up and be like, baby, it's fine. You will be fine. It's other people that are the problem. I think we are a group of and even just not not even just in the vibe, but especially in the vibe, a group of just such wonderfully supportive women who just do this to make other people feel beautiful. I can't stand it when people are negative about the industry.
Speaker: Do you know what I mean? That was so beautifully said. But we are, we're all amazing and people don't think enough of us and they don't talk highly enough about us and we need to do it for ourselves. I just think it's such a beautiful industry. Oh my god, hell yeah. We do. Hell yeah, we need to shout about that.
Speaker: Yeah, you're right, we do need to say that more. I mean, it's really hard, isn't it, as a British person and a woman, to be like, we do a good job. No, it is, but honestly, you start not caring about that stuff when you're older. Like, honestly, I mentor younger makeup artists and I just think it's a beautiful industry to be in, but you've got to be tough because people will talk to you like shit. Yeah, and that thing when people go, do you do this full time? Yeah. And you're like,
Speaker: Can I tell you one thing? What do you think was as a hobby? So I did a wedding in Loughton. It was about five years ago. No, five years into my business and I still took cash on the day for trials, right? And I had done three people's makeup. And at the end of it, the dad came up to me and he said, oh, I hear I have to pay you. And I said, yes, please. I told him how much. And he pulled this big bunch of cash out of my pocket. And he went, oh, you've had a good day out of me today, haven't you? And I beg your pardon, he went,
Speaker: for coming round here and doing a few hours. You've had a good day out of me. And I don't know how I found the balls to say it, Lauren, but I went, I'm standing in your beautiful six bedroom house. You look like you've had plenty of good days. And he went, you're right. You are right. He went, you're right. I'm self -employed. I don't even know where that came from. And I was like, I'm so glad I said it because how dare he? Good for you.
Speaker: I know, but then I got in the car and I was literally, I was like, the adrenaline. When he was doing that, was he like, cause sometimes if people say stuff like that, I just completely brush it off. Like I don't even give it a second thought sometimes, but was he meaning that as a bit of a like put down?
Speaker: it was no it was a dig it was a dig because he obviously didn't at that point he didn't value what I did yeah he assumed that I was a silly little ditzy you know oh could you pay me because it just made your wife look pretty and and I just said I said but I'm self -employed like and I it was more than I said you're you're a business owner look at your beautiful house you've had you you've had much better days than I've had I just worked really hard with your family and he went
Speaker: Yeah, you're right. I think he just I don't know if he just was having a bad day or he didn't want to pay me or he didn't like partner with his cash. But
Speaker: It was the last time I let anyone speak to me like that. Like I don't, I don't give off. I don't feel like I give off the energy that people can talk to me like that anymore. Um, on purpose, because I have no tolerance for it now. I've spoken to you like that plenty of times when I was younger. I mean, you sound in the 45 minutes that we've spoken at, you sound like you have a lot of self -respect, not only for yourself, but for what you do as well. Yeah, I do.
Speaker: And that's come with time. That has come with time. My tolerance level for people being dismissive to me is very low now. But I know that I'm good at what I do. And I know that people like what I do. And I know that I work hard for what I do. So I won't tolerate that. And I don't think anyone should.
Speaker: No, good for you. Absolutely. Oh my God, this is so motivational. I'm going to listen back to this podcast because honestly, I love the thoughts and the words that you've shared, especially the ones where the little tips about TikTok and yeah, really interesting. And that motivational speech at the end was fantastic. Good. I'm glad. So quick fire round. Are you ready? Yes. Lipstick or lip gloss?
Speaker: How long does it take you to do your makeup? 12 minutes. Love it. How often do you wash your makeup brushes? Not enough. Natural babe or full glam goddess makeup? Natural. I haven't had anyone on yet that says full glam goddess. Natural that takes as long as it would do to do a full face if I really put my mind to it.
Speaker: Oh yeah, absolutely. Where you really like take time with the skincare and everything. Yeah, love it. Share with us what your Instagram handle is. Well, my bridal makeup is makeup by Katie underscore Angelidi. And you're based in North London. Is that right? I'm just in Hertfordshire.
Speaker: Hertfordshire. Amazing. So for brides in Hertfordshire. And then for your Curly Girl makeup page, what is it? So my Curly Girl Instagram is Curly Katie with a Y and then an underscore. So thank you so much. Follow Katie for your Curly Girl makeup, Curly Girl tips and makeup tips. And yeah, thank you so much, Katie.
Speaker: Oh, thank you for having me. It's been lovely. And that's a wrap for episode nine of Behind the Chair with Lauren Garfit. Please like, share, subscribe, this podcast, ring the bell because then you'll get the next episode. It'll ping through when it comes up. When it comes up, when it's out. You know what I mean. All right. Have a lovely week. Bye.
