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#06 | How to Find Balance, Lead, and Love Your Career - Heeru Sajnani
15 Plays11 months ago
In this episode of NellyTalks, Heeru Sajnani shares her journey as a research director and consumer psychologist, balancing leadership and life as a working mum.
From unexpected career pivots to mastering the art of storytelling through data, Heeru offers insights into what it takes to thrive in the world of qualitative research. Tune in to hear her advice on navigating career challenges, finding balance, and embracing the power of peer support.
Timeline:
00:00 Nelly Talks Intro
00:54 Meet Heeru Sajnani
01:39 How did you get into the world of research?
05:22 Do you think good researchers need qualitative and quantitative skills?
07:02 What do you enjoy most about your role?
09:06 Do you feel this career allows you to have a good work life balance?
12:48 Do you feel like there is more representation in your field now?
16:51 What are your thoughts on AI?
19:34 Are there any other technologies in your field that you're excited about?
20:59 Have you ever considered a career pivot?
22:40 What advice would you give to your younger self?
Key Takeaways:
Embrace career pivots. Heeru’s journey from psychology to qualitative research shows that career changes can lead to unexpected success when you follow your interests.
Master the art of storytelling. As a researcher, Heeru emphasises how weaving data into compelling stories can create impactful insights and better decision-making.
Find your work-life juggle. Instead of chasing perfect balance, Heeru highlights the importance of finding a way to juggle the demands of both career and family.
Leverage peer support. Heeru’s career growth was shaped by the encouragement of her peers and the empowering environment she found in her current leadership role. Surrounding yourself with a supportive community is key.
Let us know what guests you'd like us to interview in future episodes!
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Transcript
Introduction to Nelly Talks Podcast
00:00:19
Speaker
Hey everyone, I'm Nellia from Nelly Wax. Welcome to my podcast, Nelly Talks, a careers-focused show for those who are considering careers in tech industry, or maybe looking for a change of direction in this space. We will be interviewing different speakers in this field to understand their journeys, their hurdles to face, how they overcame those, and any tips and hints that they would like to share on the way.
Guest Introduction: Hiro and Her Background
00:00:55
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Today, we have Hiro on the podcast with us. Hiro, I know we know each other personally. It'd be great if you could introduce yourself to our audience. Hi. Hi, Nellie. Thank you for having me. Hello, everyone. I am Hiro.
00:01:10
Speaker
And I am a mum of two, a full-time working research director, which I also call myself as consumer psychologist sometimes, just to fancy it up a bit. But um yeah, I am like a regular working mum.
00:01:30
Speaker
we We love fancy job titles in in recruitment, especially. So, yeah, love it. um Hero, um could you um give us a bit of a novel view of what you've done professionally so our audience can learn about your kind of career path?
Path to Qualitative Research
00:01:47
Speaker
and we're great to learn on how you got into the world of research. That's a big one. I've been with three in research in qualitative research for about 15 years now. I have no idea how I ended up being there, but I did. I have a psychology background. I used to love psychology and stat statistics and I wanted to become something else ah but I think Destiny had it some other way. During my post-graduation I did an internship and I really loved what I did which was talking to people and ah yeah doing this for a job like constantly talking to people understanding them why did do what they do why they like what they like and those questions just
00:02:31
Speaker
Kept me you know fascinated and I ended up being here and here I am, 15 years in the same job profile. I mean, it's great that you do what you love for a living. I think that's a kind of amazing result. If you can look back at that after 15 years and still enjoy it, it's always a good sign. I know you've mentioned you want to be something else. What did you grow up wanting to be? Spilled beings. I can sense the story there.
00:02:57
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, there was a lot of stuff that I tried before I actually ended up being a ah researcher, a lot of stuff. I have been a Montessori teacher. I have been a bit of a model. I have also, I was almost about to become an air hostess, but because of some medical reasons, I couldn't. Also wasn't event management for a while. I was a bit of, you know, a dancer in my school. I also used to love drama. So like I said, I tried everything and ended up, and I was in hospitality as well. Yeah. And I ended up being a researcher. I had no idea I was going to become this.
00:03:36
Speaker
That's amazing. You are a second dancer on the podcast. The last, I think the one before last podcast, I had Natalie who went into software engineering after dance dancing. So yeah, but that is amazing. And I did not know that about you. And how did you find um the kind of the transition of going from your studies, moving into research and how did your um education in psychology help you with that?
Education's Role in Career Development
00:04:03
Speaker
I think ah I am a qualitative research, which is focusing completely, like I said, in on consumer and consumer psychology. It was part of my curriculum and there's something that I really found fascinating to know more about why people are buying so many things, what is going behind the scenes for ah by the companies, by the marketing teams, to for people to understand and their needs and motivations and all that all those things I found really fascinating.
00:04:34
Speaker
um I had, like I said, you know, during my undergrad, a background of both psychology and statistics, which was, um which was towards um something something of this sort. And during my post graduation, I think which was in communications management, it became even more clearer that I really wanted to do this. And I think a lot of yeah a lot of encouragement also came in through my ah peer groups who who clearly saw me doing very well as a researcher. And yeah i just yeah I just ended up being there. you know I transitioned very smoothly as as ah as a consumer psychologist, a consumer marketer. yeah that that's That's a great story. I think community and peer support is very important, especially kind of early on in your career.
Balancing Qualitative and Quantitative Skills
00:05:23
Speaker
Do you feel like having ah that combination of qualitative and quantitative skills made you makes makes a successful researcher, makes a good researcher um in your field? I think so. that That's true. Both skill sets are very important, but there are people who are naturally bent to a certain skill set. like i but ah Also because I've been doing 15 years purely qualitative research and I also find it a little bit niche and also a skill that, you know, ah it is based on, you know, being intuitive, being perceptive. So I think something you already need, it's something that I recognized pretty late, but I did recognize that probably, you know, I really find it interesting to read people's mind or people, you know, read behind what they are thinking or saying.
00:06:14
Speaker
Uh, but at the same time where quantitative health is obviously decision-making, we are quant people as humans. We need facts to, to decide, to make decisions. So that's exactly, you know, how it helps in even in the industry that if you, if you have that, even if you have that qualitative end of mind, you can propose your ideas, your thoughts, your motivations, but, uh, it's very hard to decide on, you know, those those insights.
00:06:43
Speaker
So therefore, quant comes in and you know helps you makes those make those decisions. So it's it'ss it's just helpful and in you know validating what yeah you've been proposing to your clients.
00:06:55
Speaker
absolutely can also relate to that. I think in in hiring, we almost have to be data analysts um sometimes. And what do you enjoy the most about your role? kind What would you say like the favorite? And are you in management now? So it's a kind of a leadership position, perhaps less tactical. But what have you enjoyed when you were hands on and also
The Art of Storytelling in Research
00:07:15
Speaker
now? I absolutely enjoy storytelling and story weaving. I absolutely enjoy that. i I think when I started, obviously, you know, there is a lot of moderation, meeting people, meeting consumers. But when you carve those stories out in a very um you know in a very presentable way in like those 30 slides or whatever in that half an hour, you have to tell the story. And then you tell a story in a way which is like, here's the high, here's what I found, and then here's what the data is.
00:07:46
Speaker
and this is the insight and you try to, you know, it's it's lit i I feel like you know I'm embroidering a story and creating an you know a beautiful picture of what I want to say. I absolutely love storytelling.
00:08:01
Speaker
You sound like a true artist of what you do. It's a beautiful description. I wish I had, I was able to describe my job in the same way. um Anything that you wish you could have changed about the role, this role or anything that you find challenging in your career? Challenging, but obviously, you know, um with core research, the bit that becomes challenging is ad hoc kind of work, because sometimes you don't know where it,
00:08:28
Speaker
you know where it ended up being your insights but I don't know I think I think the briefs itself are challenging it really and I think in a positive way those challenges really help you think think beyond the obvious because that's that's that's the beauty of my job like think beyond the obvious you know dig out those insights so I think that challenge part of it is a falsee positive challenge and I really love it
Work-Life Balance as a Working Mom
00:08:53
Speaker
Great. I mean, you clearly enjoy what you do. um And I guess to take a slightly different angle, I know you've mentioned that you are a working mum, senior leadership role as well that has its demands. Do you feel this career allows you to have a good work life balance and how do you juggle? It is something that is very taxing because you're constantly thinking.
00:09:18
Speaker
ah It is a thinker's job. It's not about just sitting and data crunching. that Obviously, that also is very, very taxing. But this is something where you go back from the data, take a step back, think, and you can't stop thinking. you know um of Some of the ideas come at 3 a.m. in the morning you know when you wake up and you're like, oh, this is what the answer is for this problem. But I think a lot depends on where you work and your workplace and who you surround yourself with.
00:09:47
Speaker
I have been very conscious as well as I think ah especially after my first child, I became very conscious to protect that zone for myself and people who will who will come into that zone professionally and personally. I'm very lucky to have found 9 seat where I work currently.
00:10:07
Speaker
and the the so leadership there, which is predominantly you know women owned, people who are at my life stage who understand every bit of it and and put a lot of lot of effort in making sure that there is a work-life balance, there's mental health you know kind of focus, and you know people are happy where they're working. So I think that has really helped me in shaping up my routines my work-life balance and honestly you know there is no balance there is just a juggle all of us are juggling and I
00:10:42
Speaker
take Like I said, you know I've been very conscious of ah having those people those women in my life who are doing, according to me, a brilliant job to inspire myself constantly. you know They are my energy. I take a lot of inspiration. you Look at yourself. i mean you i just You have no idea how much you inspire me.
00:11:04
Speaker
I don't know about inspiring but I think I feel you having your tribe and like knowing that you doing well and you have people around you who ah at least look like they've got it together maybe that's my case versus actually being the reality is really important you're right I do think of this as kind of work-life bland, you know, sometimes having to jump on in the evening when kids aren't bad. And, you know, at the same time, still being like grateful that you do have a satisfying job and balancing that. I think a one um a person, obviously, you know, everybody knows her in the industry. It's Indranoi, you know, her videos really help her. Her book is fascinating to read. And my life in full, what she wrote about, you know, work-life balance, obviously, you know, I connect a lot with her.
00:11:50
Speaker
She said it beautifully that it's not about work-life balance. It's about work-life juggle, where you know she had this episode where she wanted to find a solution. She hired someone for baking. or you know She baked something for her daughter, and then you know it turned out to be really bad. But then she called up someone and said that her pantry or whatever, just said just it should look like home-baked cookies or something. So she found solutions. I think i think as moms, we constantly find solutions to to get those problems out of our way. ah I mean, for me, it's all about outsourcing. And yeah, so could if I can make it look authentic, then that's great in a way, you know, but kids are none the wiser, and you know, yeah you you might get a little bit less wrinkles and gray hairs as a result. ah Yeah, no, it's amazing podcast grade.
00:12:42
Speaker
you mom Happy happy living. 100% and everyone else hoping. And do you feel like there is more um representation, kind of both gender representation or the type of representation in your field now versus when you were starting up in your career?
00:12:59
Speaker
So obviously, my story is slightly different. I did not start ah in in the UK. I started ah back in India. ah But core research, even in India, predominantly was females-dominated. Core research has very much been like that. But at the same time, we also had a lot of males, you know and if you're if you're talking about gender representation.
00:13:24
Speaker
ah I see that the same. it's i think I don't know if it's to do with the you know interests or be of frame of mind, but at the same time, I also see a lot of... but the the The reason I mentioned it, because it was already female dominated at a senior level, I did see a lot of females you know like at a really senior level. And that also inspired me a lot just to stick to my career path.
00:13:54
Speaker
ah I also see a lot of men, that is a gender skew that I noticed. And then I moved here, which obviously you know was was ah was, is going to be different. i'm I'm moving in a different culture and I'm moving into a different country. But I think with time, I have seen you know a bit more consciousness, mit more balance. I think it's also to do with qua research because you need different mindsets, different cultures to bring in that learning. I think that that really gives that perspective if you have that kind of you know diversity kind of frame of mind. And again, you know like I said, I'm very lucky to be in a company where there's a conscious effort to bring that balance.
00:14:38
Speaker
And yeah i and to to me, I have seen that there's there has been a lot of noise, which was there a couple of years back. But that noise has resulted in some bit of you know positive kind of balance. or you know There's more openness to hiring. There's more openness to talk about it o you know and own it. I mean, there was a time where people would not would would feel conscious of owning that they are from different culture, but own it.
00:15:06
Speaker
yeah Yeah, no, I can relate obviously as being Ukrainian myself. I think, you know, the days where you felt bad because people couldn't pronounce your name and that now it's like, you know, I stand out. That's like, that's part of me. In a group of 200, people will remember my name most likely. I do think it's also something that you kind of develop through as a professional, that you learn about in Posters Indian.
00:15:31
Speaker
But I do feel like quality of research, one of the, you know, perhaps comparing it like with the tech industry, product research, one of the most representative fields, you know, you know, I recruited in UX research and as a hiring team with the only ones that probably could hit our.
00:15:47
Speaker
um you know, quotas because actually there is a huge amount of ah representation. In fact, it was probably harder to get gender representation male candidates through because, you know, that just kind of the industry has happened and all of our leadership at the time of Martel was female, all of the directors.
00:16:06
Speaker
um And I just felt like it was so such an empowering environment do to progress. yeah Unfortunately, that's not the case in many other industries. um yeah So people do kind of, you know, it's hard for you to aim for something if you haven't seen anyone else that looks or sounds like you're doing it. Yes, I think the research got it right.
00:16:27
Speaker
ah if that makes sense, and hopefully those practices will be moved across to other sectors.
AI's Role in Qualitative Research
00:16:33
Speaker
I think something slightly different, another topic. Now, AI is everywhere at the moment. and Obviously, 2023 was like the rise of gen AI. It was, in fact, before, but, you know, that's when everyone, I think, downloaded Chad G. Pity. ah Or there are other alternatives available, of course.
00:16:51
Speaker
um What new tools have you seen coming up in your space? What are your thoughts on AI? Has that has it impacted your role or your space? I think in research obviously AI seems to have had a very significant impact in terms of you know how we ah I mean, some of them are also calling it as the golden age of qualitative research because now you have AI as an assist to help you, to guide you through, you know, those questions, those thoughts and stuff like that. So, I mean, honestly, it's always like you said, you know, generative AI has just picked up, but imagine my 18 month old daughter calling.
00:17:36
Speaker
Alexa all the time and talking to her. So it's it's all it's been there for, now that the Alexa woke up when I spoke about Alexa, but yeah, I mean, you know, asking Alexa about, you know, what's the time, how is your mood, how's the weather like, you know, ah you know, what's the day like, you know, did we ever think they are gonna behave like this, an 18 month old girl talking to an AI,
00:18:02
Speaker
thing so i mean honestly i just feel that it's it's more to do with adapting to it it's gonna be here for long if you go with that fear mindset it's not gonna be helpful because it's developing at a rapid pace and We have to integrate it in a way which can help us do our jobs better. It is a big kind of leap that's happening. But at the same time, we are also, we are human race. We're used to you know adapting ourselves. And that's the beauty of being in world research. You adapt yourself to newer things. Obviously, you know there is a bigger, I feel personally that there's a bigger impact on quant research that AI can have. But again, it's to it's to do with how we adapt ourselves.
00:18:47
Speaker
Now, one thing very importantly, which I always feel is that you can't um it cannot function without the human neck. Humans created it, so let's not forget it. And always, you know there is a reason it was created. We are a step ahead of it. So if we just try to think from that perspective and try to always oh use it or utilize it from the angle of that, how can my ah how can it help me rather than replace me?
00:19:16
Speaker
I think that's where we can just work with this capacity of AI. I think exactly that kind of enhancing your work with AI, I think seems to be the best approach and just learning how to utilize it to diversify your skillset. Are there any other technologies in your field that you're excited about?
Future Tech Trends in Research
00:19:41
Speaker
Anything else that's kind of coming up?
00:19:43
Speaker
I think anyone who's in this area should be investing time in learning. I think from the AI perspective only, there's a lot of work that's happening from you know creating creating avatars, creating music, creating videos via avatars, you know consumer videos, can consumer ah you know consolidating consumer language, or getting more insights.
00:20:07
Speaker
I can't say the insight's 100% in that direction, but yeah, 90% there. I mean, technology-wise, this is one big area that is developing, especially with wall research. But again, wall research is a very, like I said, it's a very niche field and it's very psychology-driven. So you need very strong human knack there and possibly are than that human support that AI needs um to do work in this and in qualitative research. Yeah, I mean, no doubt, I think there will be new jobs coming out at the back of this, not just in research, but in in other spaces. I think like everyone's expected to be prompt engineer now, not something that you've anyone really been trained for. um and Forget about like experienced people, even junior folks haven't really learned AI. So something we're just adopting. um And from your perspective, a slightly different ah topic
00:21:03
Speaker
Have you ever considered any ah career pivots? Have you ever thought about leaving research, backing it all in and doing something else? I think and all of us at any point of life have considered a career pivot, especially when we become moms. I think that's where you know you stay put and do you know stick to what you've been doing. But I think yeah i really I really, at one point, I really wanted to have, like I said, I love storytelling. So I wanted to, you know, create this children's storytelling podcast, which was like, I'll do this 100% of the time. And, you know, I want to get there and, you know, talk about children's stories and, you know, enjoy the space. But yeah, I think other than that, I think my whole, my career has been a career pivot. I ended up, like I said, you know, I described the story that I ended up being here.
00:21:58
Speaker
But no, I mean, I haven't, I think i'm I'm in the right place, in the right mind, in the right space oh to do what what what probably I'm capable to do. And it sounds like you would deny business that kind of supports you um with the time and space and and tools that you need to do your job, which I think does retain, especially women in the workforce after having kids, et cetera.
00:22:25
Speaker
The work itself is one thing. The environment, as you said before, is exceptionally important, especially if you have stakeholders that you can relate to and have gone through some of those juggling things that we we spoke about. um So that's great. Any advice that you would give ah to your younger self or anyone who's considering ah pivoting into the world of research?
Advice on Career Confidence
00:22:53
Speaker
I think it's very important to stay true to yourself and I think be obviously be yourself is something that anybody would want to tell a younger self but it's very hard to be yourself when you are young and you know there is so much noise around you that you're constantly listening to and so many ah opinions and you know especially you know uh growing up in in sort of an Asian culture which is much more you know uh
00:23:22
Speaker
ah directed by what your parents want but I think staying true and just believing yeah in yourself have the confidence that what have the confidence even if people want to pivot like if I want to just change you know my my profession right now I would still do it with one hundred percent confidence even if it's gonna go wrong doesn't matter I tried so like I said I've tried so many things For me, the biggest thing was just have the confidence. Try out till you really, you know, um find what you want to do in life. And there's nothing wrong in pivoting. There's nothing wrong in pivoting. Absolutely. You know, it it is going to work out if you put your effort there. That's a great advice. It's never late to change. Never late to pivot.
00:24:09
Speaker
whether it's at the start of your career, like yourself, or, you know, 10, 15, 20, how many years later? I think a great case for it. I think somebody gave me a brilliant advice. I spoke to someone recently and I went and asked her that, you know, I'm almost 40 and, you know, I've been in the industry for 15 years. I just feel like, you know, I don't know what to do. And she just looked at me. She's like,
00:24:36
Speaker
you have another 20 years. And I was like, exactly, that's the fact, that's exactly the fact I have another 20 years to do whatever I want to do in, you know, with my career. So it's like you said, it's never too late to pivot. I always say it to people like, grey is a marathon, it's not a race. What seems huge now when you look back will be quite a small period of what you did. So yeah, just loving enjoying it and So we're not stressing about it like a long time because as we know, life happens and we sometimes just pivot because we have to. So yeah, that's a great advice. I need to connect to whoever you've been speaking to. Amazing. It's been great having you in the podcast. So thank you so much for sharing all the insights and the tips that you've picked up on the way. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
00:25:27
Speaker
thank you to all our lovely listeners for sticking with us i hope you found this useful and please do share like etc check out our next episode that comes out in two weeks time