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How Ex-VP Can Stay Curious and Innovative: Nadia Deshkovets
72 Plays4 months ago
Nadia Deshkovets is a TED-speaker, ex-VP and CMO at Carlsberg and now is a certified executive business coach. Nadia started her professional journey as a marketing manager in Belarus in early 90ths and grew her career all the way to Vice President of Marketing at Carlsberg in Vietnam, while remaining active, enthusiastic and empathetic leader. For the last 7 years Nadia also helps global business leaders as an executive coach and business trainer.
In this episode we talk about curiosity as one of the key ingredients for successful innovators, entrepreneurs and executive leaders. We discuss how to nurture growth mindset, overcome rigidity and find the keys to make innovation possible, long term and meaningful.
Since Nadia is a certified executive coach, we discussed, how her clients come to an idea that they need help, what makes a good coach, discuss ups and downs and how Nadia builds an AI Companion to scale her coaching services.
We also discuss specifics of doing business in Vietnam, compare with other geographies and – as both of us are expats – talk about benefits and challenges of living and working in another country.
Our conversation also covers topics of incremental vs disruptive innovation, we discuss practical case studies of product innovation in consumer goods segment and how to build a proper business portfolio toward high-momentum segments. Please, pay attention to the segment where Nadia highlights:
“Meaningful longterm innovation is always disruptive and is based on customer insights”.
“Failure is one of the most important things for innovators and entrepreneurs”.
“Smooth sea never trained a skilled sailor”.
https://nadiadeshkovets.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadia-deshkovets https://www.facebook.com/nadya.deshkovets
https://www.instagram.com/nadyadeshcoach
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderbabko
Please, enjoy our conversation, subscribe, rate the show and share your thoughts with us at monthsandmillions@gmail.com!
This is a personal podcast. The views and opinions expressed here are only those of the author and do not represent those of any organization or any individual with whom the author may be associated, professionally or personally.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:14
Speaker
Hey, welcome to Month in Millions, a practical and inspiring show about innovators and emerging tech practitioners.
Innovators vs. Decision-Makers
00:00:21
Speaker
I'm the host of the show, Alex Belko. How many times someone pitched you an idea and you, as an organizational leader, had million reasons why it wouldn't work? Or vice sub versa, how many times you've been presenting a genius idea that was shelved or laughed without a attention?
00:00:37
Speaker
Quite often there is a big gap between enthusiastic people who can drive changes and people empowered to make those decisions. Or what if those two groups could share same innovation and growth mindset and could marry innovation and business rational?
Guest Introduction: Nadie Deschoulet
00:00:55
Speaker
If it sounds like a science fiction to you, you are not alone.
00:00:59
Speaker
and Today, I invited a professional business leader and a certified coach to discuss how tech and business professionals can match personal aspirations with company goals, how to overcome frustration and rigidity, to become proactive entrepreneurs, motivating leaders, stay curious and not being afraid of innovation.
Nadia's Career Journey
00:01:22
Speaker
My guest today is Nadie Deschoulet. Nadie is my good friend, dad speaker, PhD and one of the most passionate top-level executives I've ever met.
00:01:34
Speaker
Nadia started her professional journey as a marketing manager in Belarus in the early 90s and grew her career all the way to vice president of marketing at Calsbroke in Vietnam, while remaining active, enthusiastic and a pathetic leader. For the last seven years, Nadia also helps global businesses. as an executive coach and business trainer. And today, we are going to talk about how she applied innovation and growth mindset into practice as a business leader, how technologies boost innovation and business environment in Vietnam where Nadia lives with the last 10 years, and how self-made professionals should invest months into making millions.
Vietnam's Tech Scene and Economy
00:02:15
Speaker
Hi, Nadia.
00:02:16
Speaker
Hi, Alex. yeah Thank you for having me. so And I very appreciate your nice introduction of myself. Thank you very much. Wonderful. I'm very excited. I'm very excited and indeed it's a great pleasure to have this conversation with you today. I assume you are in Vietnam ah right now. right Right, I'm still in Hanoi, the last 12 years. So I've been here and still very happy and very yeah optimistic about being in Vietnam.
00:02:44
Speaker
Wonderful, wonderful. So from what I know, you're actively promoting this destination. You always say, hey, you should come here, check this, and and and so many different reasons like why people should go there. So can you please guide me through what it is like to live in Vietnam, like from also like not only from personal perspective, but also from technology perspective, business perspective, what is that like?
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's they quite simple. Yeah, it's very difficult question because, you know, after being here or more than decades, so actually ah see Vietnam as my second home. So that's why I, of course, I have a lot of insights or I know a lot of people here. So then let me structure my, you know, understanding of what's ah really ah experts, but because I still see myself as an expert here. So what the expert can really, ah you know, expect from being in Vietnam.
00:03:42
Speaker
so ah From their kind of economic point of view, so Vietnam is still a very favorable kind of for the environment for any investment, for technology development, for you know like a population growth, and so on and so forth. so air economically speaking. So, this is a very stable ah country, which really shows very good growth after the COVID particularly. And it, of course, gives a lot of positive sides to the future.
00:04:14
Speaker
And of course, we see a lot of young people actually are you know are growing in the country and their income of these people is actually boosting. So then you know it's it really gives a quite positive outlook of their future or for their you know technological economy and society and their social development of the country.
00:04:36
Speaker
in terms of their society and the culture, kind of like a social life here. So I think that's the one thing that I actually learned or from being in Vietnam, is that everything is about trust. so And it's not a surprise, of course, in many parts of the world, you you have to really trust people. But he in Vietnam particularly is actually is based on their knowing people, trusting
Leadership Transformation in Vietnam
00:05:01
Speaker
people. Maybe you know about their ah ah different so the concept of the coconut and peach culture. Do you? Yeah, I've heard about that. So that's that's kind of their the best illustration of their of their coconut culture, when you can really put a lot of efforts to get known people, but when they when they really, truly know you and trust you, then everything can be possible here.
00:05:27
Speaker
And another thing that I also very much appreciate in Vietnam is actually a lot of interesting things can be over the corner. So then, you know, like it's every day brings something new to my life, to my kid's life, or to my business life. So you always being in curious and I think that they also curiosity. So It's like kind of their main ingredient that any innovator right or the leader can really foster in themselves. So being here in Vietnam, I think that is is their best platform to really train your inner curiosity. h That sounds exciting. that That sounds really exciting. I think that the curiosity is one of the key merits and like key qualities that people should have.
00:06:13
Speaker
Right, because can you imagine that 12 years ago when I came here, I had no knowledge about Vietnam at all. I think there are two things that I actually remember what I knew about Vietnam. It was a conic hat. This is a very well-known symbol of Vietnamese culture, which people still wear, which is true.
00:06:35
Speaker
And something which I very kind of like roughly remember about the Vietnamese War, which actually ah you know like ended many years ago. That's it. So my knowledge was very limited. But actually, as more I really learn from Vietnamese people, as more I work here. So I think that it's really made the whole transformation of my personality. And of course, I i can say that ah I changed my leadership style. I changed my approach to the business.
00:07:05
Speaker
Not completely, but I think that I really ah i became a much well-rounded leader here. so And this is a very good thanks to Vietnam, because I think that one of the most important things is that you feel connected in Vietnam. So we live in the quite so various and very mixed expert communities here.
00:07:30
Speaker
And this is the feeling of belonging to the something like a bigger than you, really see a lot of people from there across the whole world. So this is something which really enriches your perspective. So ah that's why I always, when I talk to my clients, my coaching clients or any any of my acquaintances or colleagues, I always promote the idea, if you have a chance to be an expert,
00:07:56
Speaker
please take this chance because it's really a shift your your perspective, you know, on your horizon. So right now i I see the world, you know, like much kind of bigger as a bigger place as as it was 10 years ago.
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah, we will definitely explore some of those views and and your perspective towards different areas in business. So you'll tell that in a few minutes. ah but um So you said that you didn't you practically like didn't know much about the country, about the business environments, um but still, like what was your decision-making mechanism when you left Belarus for Vietnam?
00:08:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think that now reflecting my my like a first third three months or six months, I remember that I was so ah stressed out, frankly speaking, because of there are so many new things around me from you know like how to do shopping to the how to manage people who are really speak or in different languages you know and have a very different way of working. So I was completely stressed and I remember very well that I actually was driven by the one idea. How can I bring people from Belarus and do a job with me? Because it seems to be very you know logical and very comfortable at that time.
00:09:22
Speaker
And I seriously considered the option to really, you know, start, you know, brought people from my ex team and work with them. But it its actually, it's it it was the first lesson because when I learned because the the leader er always have some challenge. And what really ah like make the outstanding leader or strong leader really fall apart from the others is your ability ah not only take the stress but actually feel comfortable with the discomfort. I actually learned the same ah same lesson when I started being a professional coach because it's one one of the ideas of being a coach, being comfortable with discomfort. And it's very difficult to do.
00:10:13
Speaker
because you always like uncertain you know you're You feel all the stress inside you. You don't know the answers. So then mentally, I think that in the beginning, I would try to really you know get back to the comfort zone you know and trying to you know deal with the challenges as I used to as i used to do.
00:10:35
Speaker
And then I think that this has really helped me to be a stronger leader when I really a understand that I need to find some new new ways with the new people and tackle to the challenge with their you know what I had you know in the new circumstances.
Innovation in Vietnam's Market
00:10:55
Speaker
I think that they that was the why of their as you ask, like a decision-making mechanism and solve for and um ah solving problem mechanisms.
00:11:07
Speaker
i find like a face, your challenge are ah courageously and try to really be open to the some you know some new things and being you know trying to be good with your discomfort, which always comes yeah in in all these like a new environments. So I think that that was the my very well-known first lesson in my in my career here.
00:11:35
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much. And that very much resonates with my experience as well. when or Whenever you have an another chapter in your career and there is something less known, you're like trying to search answers into the ways of working that you're comfortable with, which might not be the right ones because the the situation is different.
00:11:55
Speaker
um Yeah, so definitely we will talk in a few minutes about your experience in Vietnam. But before we jump into there into that, so your major um domain in business is consumer goods. That's kind of your area, let's put it like that.
00:12:16
Speaker
ah So I must admit, like I know less about like the um the hotel restaurants, cafes, and like some other categories of ah the consumer goods. I'm more focused on the like healthcare, entertainment, immersion technologies. So ah what kind of innovation do you see there in your domain?
00:12:36
Speaker
all right yeah yeah so as i said so Vietnam is the perfect place to do innovation and in many domains, in many industries. and there you know Typically, it's there people say that 80% of their company growth comes from their core business.
00:12:55
Speaker
right And it's sometimes it's interpreted that as a business sir ah being in a high-momentum industry, then we'll just you know ride the wave of this high-momentum and they will grow. But actually, you even within within the high-momentum industry, which consumer goods is one of them, is still there is a distribution of winners and losers.
00:13:18
Speaker
So that's why in my mind, so in my opinion, so what really makes some companies so are more successful in innovation is that if the companies really rebuild their portfolio, their business portfolio, not only the product portfolio, but the business portfolio of the services and products and experiences toward the high momentum segments.
00:13:41
Speaker
And it will boost the opportunity to grow. And of course, it will lead to the better revenue and profit and return on investment capital. So then, if we are really, if I may split there ah all the market markets or industries in the world and the two groups, so one and which we call a new market or development market, which 10 years ago, Vietnam was still in this kind of sub-segment, right?
00:14:08
Speaker
So, and in in this so ah situation, so in this type of their industry, the pace of the industry growth is actually propelled by the macroeconomical factors, like like we discussed already, like yeah low inflation, the high GDP growth,
00:14:26
Speaker
the rate of population growth, the middle class growth, and so on and so forth. So at that time, so it was a really good momentum for some innovation, which we've done, for example, Tuberg. So I i was the leader or the manager of this such a big project for the Kalsberg launching an international brand, Tuberg, for the youth or in Vietnam.
00:14:50
Speaker
and Actually, era what's ah it was not only the kind of like incremental innovation. you know like When the company really like extended what they already had at that moment, but it was more about like a breakout innovation. When we tried to create arab you know a new market, a new segment, which appealed youth or in like a young consumers in in Vietnam.
00:15:16
Speaker
and Normally, this kind of innovation is much more kind of promising and might give a much more volume growth and the profit growth because instead of just the you know um extend from the what you have and compete with the competitors that already exist, Tuberg and other like sub-premium brands of other companies, really try to build something new and really like create a new market in the in this beverage market. So that's that's one of the examples when we actually managed and we did it successfully to create a like a new sub-domain, if I may call it.
00:15:58
Speaker
like affordable sub-premium youth or brands in Vietnam. So this kind of example, I think that illustrates very well the good innovation in their market, which is experienced growth, which is still developing.
00:16:19
Speaker
so That's the one or the one example. The second example was more about the communication. so It was not a product innovation, but it was and an idea to create a 360-degree platform for the one local brand and they also in the beer sector. When we actually are managed to create or a content driven by the music,
00:16:46
Speaker
which very, yeah very sooner became a very profound platform when the consumers really you know contribute the content. So basically, they played this music, they are created they like a rep.
00:17:02
Speaker
are based on this music so they really kind of like there was a very very creative way of kind of integrating this music into their life across the many touch points. So that was also a very good example of how to really ah being relevant to the young consumers and how to really ah are a part of the product so design or the product ah ah innovation really looked into their or you know deep insights, what how young consumers live, what they listen to, what they're really craving for, and utilize it in order to boost or brands' or performance.
00:17:40
Speaker
So that was about music and music video and, you know, like a phone ringtone. At that time it was quite popular, still popular. And also social media and some contests, their air musical contests among the consumers and customers. Yeah, that was say ah quite a big thing.
00:18:00
Speaker
And you asked me about the Chorica as well. So maybe let me give you some examples, and not from my background, but i actually i always I think that sir other innovation is always in my radar. And I also appreciate what other competitors or other brands do. so And it was a very good example of innovation that was implemented by our competitor, by Heineken.
00:18:24
Speaker
so Actually, Heineken has been a big star here. so it's like People really admire this brand. and You have to know that Horika is a very powerful segment here in the market. It includes around 50% of the total sales.
00:18:41
Speaker
I've never seen it anywhere in the world. I mean, that in in Europe, Horika contributes 10%, 12% maximum. So he's the 50%. So everything that is done for Horika has a really big you know like a potential for the brand so for the brand brand growth. So that there the we also it's also based on the consumer and the shopper um behavior. So people here,
00:19:08
Speaker
they also consume beer very differently from the european people so if you are for example hang out with your friends at horica at any like eatery or any bar yeah or any you know any place so you normally share beer.
00:19:25
Speaker
So it's not like in Europe, mostly most of the people really, you know, order something that they like. And you can easily see the group of people who some of them drink wine, some of them, you know, this beer and that beer. So this is mixed here. So people really go with their basically one choice.
Fostering Innovation in Teams
00:19:44
Speaker
So and they them kind of their the mission of the brand, who's really tried to be welcomed by this group of people, is to create something which is really attractive to to them. So here, consumers in the eatery, they normally ah order not by glass bottle or not by you know glass not by individual pack, but they normally order by the crate.
00:20:09
Speaker
so they Basically, if you want to go with a some brand, so you order a a crate of beer. And how the brand is actually how Heineken utilizes it. so hi can actually ah Because normally people order Heineken by saying CAM, not by Heineken, because it's too long.
00:20:30
Speaker
So they are really use like a nickname for this brand. So then knowing this, so Hany can actually very smartly put on their crate like Hany and Ken as like as on a separate side of the crate, which I think that makes an even more friendly feeling out of this experience you know using the Heineken. It's like, oh, it's my you know like kind of friend. you know I can even you know call him like a can, and it's already on the packaging. So I think that it's really a good example how the brand can listen to what really consumers think and even put it on the packaging, which
00:21:11
Speaker
Sometimes it's very, how to say, like, unchangeable, you know, and their big brands don't want to really, you know, do anything, tailor it to the consumers. But I think that this was a good example how to really, you know, please consumers in their stores, in this, yeah, in this beer place. Yeah, that sounds very insightful and like very, very interesting in the manner like how you and your team manage to listen to your audience and and try to do something meaningful with that, that that resonates with the with consumers, and that's super exciting. um What I'd like us to talk now about is sir how to enable that, how to make it possible. So ah you had a few executive leadership roles, including being a VP of marketing at Cosberg,
00:22:02
Speaker
and Marketing is always and like quite often it's perceived as like the driver of innovations, the most advanced company ah division. ah so um Can you guide me through your approach to innovation, how to nurture and the team how to establish this growth mindset, both um with your team and with your stakeholders acting like as a bridge between those who are empowered and those who are actually like the doers and you being the enabler. So what's your approach to that? send
00:22:39
Speaker
I'd like to to get some some some interesting and practical recommendations to those who are um running innovation in corporate segments and big companies because it might be for for for some reason like more easy like easier to run innovation if you're responsible like from A to Z, but when you need to.
00:23:01
Speaker
mix and manage different parts of the of the big system, that that might be different. So so ah what's your approach to that? Yeah, thank you very much for such a wonderful question. And again, it's a very broad question, so I would try to ah there were really you know break down some key ideas on it. You're absolutely right that sir innovation is very strategic lever for any companies. That's why I truly believe that marketing in is the driver and should be the driver of innovation.
00:23:37
Speaker
And i as I mentioned before that I i think that the innovations are like really successful, sizable innovation has to be breakout. Meaning that so it's not just existing of the product experience you already have, which is also part of the innovation. And of course, nothing wrong to do this innovation. Like, I don't know, or ah or tapping into the new formats or new flavors or new recipes.
00:24:03
Speaker
Nothing wrong with this. It also has some purpose right for the business. It also drives ah volume and and profit. But true innovation and really long-term innovation is always breakout. so Meaning kind of we can call it like a more revolutionary, right which is really ah based, first of all, on the consumer or shopper or customer or deep insights.
00:24:30
Speaker
And I think that this is their in their whole innovation pipeline process. I would say that this first step, we call it ideation step, when when you when you really need to discover what really ah stays behind the data that you see, I would say that this is the most challenging part.
00:24:51
Speaker
Because very often people really stop are you know at the level of, okay, I know something, and it's enough to really jump into their you know like ah innovative ideas. But actually, I think that to really put some efforts, and sometimes it's ah big efforts, and true and really understand what truly lays down yeah and stays behind this consumer or customer behavior.
00:25:17
Speaker
that's there That's, I think, that the most challenging in the company. Because always, like, markets and go, any other function, are always in rush. And always want to bring something which can, you know, potentially or you know bring more profit and drive business results and so on and so forth. But I think that really, like, slowing down yeah and really dig very deep, trying to identify what I know about the consumers, why they do what they do.
00:25:47
Speaker
And I can give you the example to illustrate it. So when we launched when we was about to launch Tuberc, we actually ah spent quite a lot of time, I think that was a six or eight months, just only to understand how young consumer across the whole Vietnam. And Vietnam is 100 million people, so it's ah it's a big market.
00:26:09
Speaker
which is really diversified by the north, central and the south. So we basically what we've done during this half a year is and understanding what people ah really include into their ah meaning of fun. Because to work is about fun, is about easy easiness.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah, and Asia overall about business and Vietnam about business. That's why we we know that it's correlated quite well, right? This is a concept of business to life, to drink, to you know see other people. so And I really, i I truly love this concept of business. so But then to really hook the consumers and in a positive way. I mean, that really persuade them to buy your product. It's not enough just to say that, oh, it's for fun, but what fun really means.
00:26:56
Speaker
And we discovered that fun, meaning different things from for the people who are living in the different regions, first of all in Vietnam, so they're very different. Then the second interest interesting discovery was that fun, how to say fun experience, is actually ah evaluating from 6pm to midnight. Yeah, it evolves, first of all. Yeah, they're kind of they're extreme or how we say like, care yeah, the feeling of fun is actually increasing from six to to their you know midnight. But there another thing was interesting to understand that how people are experimented, like how they experience this fun, yeah, together with the friends in this situation and that situation. And it was around the clock.
00:27:43
Speaker
So it was very interesting. So this kind of learning, this kind of discovery, you know, it's absolutely crucial to understand for whom you're doing, what you're doing, why you're doing what you're doing, right? And how you will be able to deliver.
00:28:00
Speaker
right, your innovation to to to your target audience. So that's why going back to the process, or so I think that my approach here and overall their international company approach to the innovation, I think that's quite similar. So it's split by their you know like stages, started from their you know ideation, then there's some prototyping, then testing.
00:28:23
Speaker
with a different group of people, customer, consumer, shoppers, and so on and so forth, then some kind of like a redefining production and then launch. right And then after the launch, so normally a company, of course, monitor how successful their key performance indicators actually have been achieved. So I don't think that is something really you know radically new i I can share with you, but I think that for me, my approach ah was became a bit different, even more rigorous in this stage number one. Because sir as long as you don't know exactly what are the unmet needs you're trying to satisfy with your innovation, then everything else would be just a waste of your time.
00:29:15
Speaker
yeah So this starting point is there is there critical and fundamental for as far as I see, and from my experience it is absolutely fundamental for innovation for the successful innovation. So this is ah kind of like your process-wise or business-wise, but you also absolutely correctly asked me about their mindset.
00:29:37
Speaker
And I think that here I have several you know thoughts and news. So the one thing is that I see a lot of interconnection between their best innovator and really good leader. So I think that the one common things that they all have together is actually growth mindset. And this growth mindset, what I call the growth mindset, is the actually is the belief that your outcome, your really your abilities are not fixed. And can be always changed, depends on your kind of, as a result of your efforts and consistent so practice. Which is very different from the, let's say, like a fixed mind fix mindset, which also see failure as their disaster.
00:30:29
Speaker
And the growth mindsets keep this positive outlook and really reframe what failure means, right? So failure is not a failure, it's just a lesson. And I think that you agree with me that for innovation, so I think that it's one of the most important things, right? And for entrepreneurs as well, right? So you really need to learn from the what you've done, even, you know, maybe it was not the right things.
00:30:55
Speaker
But you have to learn and you need to ah really go further and put your efforts again and again. First time, second time, maybe 15 times. yeah So then then I think that this positive outlook is there is there extremely helpful to really keep an eye on your final goal and to really you know or you know have this capability to overcome resistance and motivate other people to also to be with you. yeah and don't really maybe look into the bumps in the road, which has always happens yeah in the innovation process, but more really like looking into the
00:31:35
Speaker
bigger picture, yeah, and into the really kind of like embrace all these kind of mistakes or learning, right? And still see yourself and your people, yeah, in your a team. We are still in the learning curve. So we are learning. So it's not like a disaster that we really made a mistake. Just let's learn from this and do it better or in their like a different way.
Embracing Failure and Growth Mindset
00:32:02
Speaker
So, I think that this kind of growth mindset that I would answer to your question, this is one of the key components that really fall apart, great leader and innovators from others.
00:32:14
Speaker
just to avoid that sarah you know I might be you know heard like, oh, it's easy. No, that's not easy at all. I remember so because I've been in business for quite long, for more than 23 years. And I also remember when I was quite a fresh manager, of course, it's not a rocket science. So people always say, oh, learn from your lesson. like but Just don't be afraid of, you know um you know, make a failure. But, you know, it's very different from what you're really hurt, this kind of maxima, let's say. Yes, something true. But you still, until your first big mistake,
00:32:55
Speaker
I think that I can say about myself, I think that I was trying to avoid the situation of the big mistake. I really, really tried to, I don't know, be perfect, you know, not showing my vulnerability, my fear, because as long as you really manage a big project, like, you know, really, you know, hundreds of thousands, you know, euro dollars project, or everything is really on stake,
00:33:24
Speaker
right So, of course, it's natural that you are as a leader, you know because you have responsibility, of course you're afraid. so And it's interesting what happens in this moment when you're afraid. Or if you made a mistake and you feel you're in pain, you are hurt, you're ashamed. Sometimes you might be ashamed in front of the many people.
00:33:48
Speaker
who really like point to to point on you and say, okay, that that's the guy who really, ah you know, ah ah kind of drove this decision, right? And finally, it's ended up into some failure, right? So this ah kind of, you know, also vulnerability, you know, and ah being encouraged to show this vulnerability is also one of the traits of the of the like a big leader. Because yeah, because I think that if you go into will,
00:34:18
Speaker
Then you go into you go into fall, right? ah You know, I remember there's a very good phrase like ah a smooth sea never trained as skilled sailor.
00:34:30
Speaker
So then you you you you definitely need to embrace. But it's it's not easy, of course. It's not easy. It needs to be this kind of muscle, let's say, have to be trained. And of and of course, the big the big help is normally coming from your manager.
00:34:48
Speaker
So if you have a good manager if you have a good leader above you or you have a good coach or your manager is a good coach because there's one of the job of the manager to be a coach to their team so everything of course sir you know being.
00:35:04
Speaker
you know, more kind of easier, right? um You know, and we you really learn. So it should be learning with support because being, seen like, being alone and still learning, and it's, yeah, it's pretty hard. And that's a very good segue to our next next kind next part of the conversation where where I'd like to explore it like as a business gym, right?
Nadia's Transition to Coaching
00:35:31
Speaker
So to certain extent you mentioned like the muscles, the approach to um
00:35:37
Speaker
applying new skills, growing certain competencies in in your i in your own. ah So our after building a super successful top executive career, ah you are made a jump to your next stage of professional development, where you are now, the professional certified coach. ah Recently, actually, from my understanding, graduated from Harvard.
00:36:05
Speaker
so i'll Not yet. Not yet. I'm still in the process. yeah i you know It's such an amazing experience. So so then I ah really prolong a little bit for to enjoy this. yeah I need to complete the five models and I really like ah give myself also some time to you know to finish it at the pace that I really enjoy. That's totally makes sense. So um so what was your decision making mechanism from holding a very top executive career to being self-entrepreneur and helping other businesses to grow. Yeah, yeah again, a a really good question. missionhel Very provoking, I have to say. yeah Okay, many layers. I also try to be ah you know are you know effective yeah efficient and efficient in answering to this question.
00:36:59
Speaker
So yeah, um I think that is also one of the big learning for me, especially if you are an expert. So you are living far away from your country. So and when I decided to quit my job or after the as you said sir correctly after the very ah successful corporate career. So then ah my first decision or maybe first third desire was sir to get back.
00:37:29
Speaker
But I'm not a person who really, ah you know, satisfied with the getting back. I mean, the getting back, not in the company. I mean, the getting back to their market where I basically came from, right? Because it's again, it was the question of, okay, it's so comfortable, you know? It's so, you know, understandable. It's clear, yeah? But so somehow, I really was irritated by idea to, you know, to get back and slow down.
00:37:55
Speaker
So instead i decided to establish my own business and in the beginning i didn't know what to do so i i knew that i would like to experiment with the something First idea was, let let me find something totally new. And I can tell you that it's a quite common thing. So when they um people you know with a good career experience burnout and stress, there very commonly, they want to just you know explore something totally different.
00:38:29
Speaker
you Very new, like going somewhere, travel, I don't know, quit for forever you know from the from the job. Whatever crazy ideas might come up where to yeah to the head of the executives. So I was not an exception. So I think I actually I was quite frustrated and confused what exactly should I or should i ah go further.
00:38:51
Speaker
And then um I remember that so I think that it took me like maybe six months. So I started looking for the new job at the same domain as you know I used to be, like another VP or senior director position.
00:39:08
Speaker
And in a parallel, I was still being driven by a question, who I am and what really makes me alive, make me energized. ah So afterwards, I discovered that it was my way to understand my purpose.
00:39:24
Speaker
And maybe for some people it might sound a little bit pathetic, like you know purpose is something really big, something abstract, but actually I think that it was a good time to really truly connect to myself.
00:39:39
Speaker
I mean to really find out what my values are, what has been driving me for the last 20 years. And then finally, I actually realized that I don't need to go somewhere very far away.
00:39:58
Speaker
I've been the top manager for 20 years. i The thing that really you know I enjoyed the most, it was two things, basically. One thing is managing people and being a good leader to them, inspire him ah aspi people, motivate them, actually help them understand their potential. so that That was my first passion.
00:40:24
Speaker
And the second passion was still very close to the business. So I discovered that I cannot really live without, um you know, solve some problem. And I also realized that I'm designed and and I really, you know, like, here ah ah feel very energized when I solve big problems.
00:40:45
Speaker
And therefore, as a result, I actually came up with the two components of my current business. So one is I'm an executive for a coach, and I still help people ah you know solve their personal or professional or you know problems and be in the better leaders.
00:41:05
Speaker
And from the other side, I still work as an independent consultant and so help for big companies so basically you know improve their business and get more profit and do also innovation and develop brands and and so and really other strategic things.
00:41:24
Speaker
I would say that say even though I probably you know did some kind of circle, it looked like a circle, but I collected a lot of gems along the way. So in this way of discovering my fundamental things, like values and purpose, why, my whys, actually, yes, I probably got back to the same curve, but I was a different person.
00:41:52
Speaker
because of this kind of discovery, self-discovery that I've done. Yeah, so that's why now I'm yeah basically doing these two things. And as you're as you mentioned already, I also joined the startup um last year. And it's also a very fascinating journey for me. This is the first time I'm doing startup.
00:42:12
Speaker
So it's a totally different area for me. But again, the idea of the startups, it's very much correlated to the what I'm doing as ah as a coach and what I've been doing ah as a leader all this all this time. So that's why it's really like self-discovery might be quite challenging and interesting and it always it's It is, but it might really, you know, turn your kind of to the same things what you've been doing for, you know, several decades. And it's and it's great.
00:42:48
Speaker
that that was my That was my journey, yeah. And I i talked about the beginning of my journey, which was quite, not depressing, but it was quite vulnerable and frustrating. So yeah, I i shared through my TEDx talk. So yeah, I quite openly and honestly ah um shared with people what's really what they might expect.
00:43:13
Speaker
if they if they face some challenges in their life and what kind of you how pivotal this change might be and what they can really do with all these fears and this discomfort and this say yeah all this frustration and shame.
00:43:34
Speaker
yeah This was a very good experience for me. I think it was very therapeutic
The Coaching Experience
00:43:40
Speaker
at that time. So we will ah delve into both the startup and the TED talk in a few minutes. But before we jump into that, I think we still need to make a pause here ah with your current profession of executive or like business coach. So ah how people find you, like how they understand that it's time for them to go to you know, to this business gym or like to to practice ah something. So how they uncover this ah idea in them and like how they understand that that's the momentum that they need you. Let's take the the your analogy of of a gym, okay right? And to carry on, all right? So then let's... say So what's... there the
00:44:30
Speaker
What do you think ah really drives people go to the gym for sports, for some exercises? I don't know, feeling good, good shape, um good health, ah like an investment into how you're going to feel like in 20 years from now.
00:44:49
Speaker
At least that's something that drives me. right Right, right. It could be. It's kind of like your vision of who you want to be right in the five years or ten years. So it's kind of, let's call it like a positive motivation, a future-oriented motivation. right So then, okay, I want to be that and that. And then, of course, I need to you know put some efforts and to put it into the practice and be consistent. right And then I go to the gym and then then I will find some proper trainer.
00:45:19
Speaker
right um Then the second type of motivation is sometimes so when people really are ah put into the crisis. And I think that what happened with me, when I actually found myself, after the big career, fully burned out,
00:45:37
Speaker
fully stressed, and with the lack of every kind of like yeah orientation, you know, what to do. So I think that the second motivation, I cannot say this negative motivation, and it just, you know, something happens in your life, it could be or ah moving to the other country, it could be quitting the job, it could be divorce, it could be, you know, something which read ah radically, you know, change your your motivation, maybe be desire, you just, you know, apparently, are you know, understood that something goes wrong and you really want to, you know, find the light, right, in this overall, this kind of the chaotic things. So I basically split all this kind of des desire or motivation in this so in this two parts.
00:46:28
Speaker
Sometimes, also, it's probably is also important to um mention about the third way, when the people have a some subtle discomfort, some some kind of like ah there some inner inner um meaning or in a state that something goes wrong or not how he or she expects it to be. And to it's also yeah quite okay to start with. So it's kind of like a inner inner discomfort. that You don't understand what goes wrong, but you feel it that you are not
00:47:10
Speaker
ah then what like you are not in the place when you wanted to be is either personally, professionally, or you know, whatever area you want to you want to improve. So basically, these three ways to go and find your find the coach. And of course, if you look precisely into their professional life, I think that it's again about their who who you want to be in the five years professionally? like What kind of leader you want to be? right What kind of firm you know job you want to to do? right What kind of man manager you like you you want to be for your team? How you really are you know assess your current so position in the company? Would you like to be promoted? Where you see yourself in the you know in the future? so
00:48:05
Speaker
it If we can put it in into the first bucket right so kind of positive motivation which is driven by your vision whom you want to be in your life or in your professional life in your career in five years so this is how what normally drives so you know people i really like their formula their card formula of changes.
00:48:26
Speaker
Because all this journey is kind of like her I can use their mentor for in business. This is change management. Basically how you approach the change management. This is so ah probably exactly the same how you approach your personal transformation ah in in life with coach or without a coach, right? So everything starts from the discomfort. So something should be changed.
00:48:53
Speaker
Yeah, by whatever reason. So yeah, you you fill it, you're happened in this situation, which really, ah you know, kind of call you to to change. So then the second ingredient of the good, of the successful ah change management is the vision. So if you don't have a vision where you want to beer, so very unlikely your your beer, even with the coach, you will reach this destination. So you need to to have a like ah on your boards and pass, let's say, let's call it boards and pass the name of the city, right? Where you want to go.
00:49:30
Speaker
Yeah, and the third ingredient, which is so absolutely critical, is the first steps. So only having these three parts, you will be able to overcome rigidness and so really, you know, make some step step ahead. Yeah, that's how people you know, or find out the coaches. And coach, you're absolutely right. This is like a trainer. So I always say to my clients, so you can do your, you know, whatever you wish without a coach. With a coach, it just is sir more effective. It's quicker.
00:50:09
Speaker
And so you always have a feedback. You always have someone who, you know, have your back, who will be geniously interested in your progress. That's why I already mentioned today that normally leader or manager is a coach for for their team, because manager and leader should have the genius interest in the people progress.
00:50:34
Speaker
And in this kind of environment, people will grow. So the same for the coaching. So i will I really keep my genius interest into my client's progress. And I always like her have their back and help them reach what they what they wish, either personally or professionally. That sounds very exciting. I can very much relate to how same kind of relation is being built between like me and my ah gym coach. It's exactly like same same methodology, same words.
00:51:07
Speaker
may ah Alex, may I ask you, what's the most appreciated in your sport coach? and That's a good question. Well, I think that that's um what I really like from the um from the mechanics perspective is that we have this Goal ah that to we identify that I identify that hey, I want like XYZ in a certain period of time and then I'm not thinking so first of all, like I'm not thinking um What exactly I need to do and will it work will need work not work and so on but but here
00:51:45
Speaker
um he designs this program and every and and that's like it can be like a surprise every time so it's not repetitive so it's just like different mechanics different approaches different tools and they and I'm sure that he knows what to do but of course like it's me doing it's me doing maximum what what is possible but it's a it's it's my coach Rokas who actually kind of designs this and and motivates and inspires in the manner that is um but it's very authentic and very natural to what we are doing there and like in in in a very good manner. So so yeah, I think that that's that's the key to success.
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah, I feel it's very well said. And I think that's exactly what the coach, I mean, that executive our coach or life coach are doing. so it's So as you said, like it's a very authentic way. So it's not like some universal way or you know from the books or whatever. It's always like a customization for what this particular person needs. And the second thing is that I really like the term of the co-creation.
00:53:00
Speaker
So as you said, like it's kind of like he knows there what to do, but it's always like upon my you know my goal, right my ability, right my body, yeah my mind. So this is yeah really a... Yeah good to you know analogy what what you really like in the sport coach so yeah and it's in in the executive coach area we also first of all we set up a goal the final goal need to be established otherwise you know like
00:53:33
Speaker
like Nobody understands where we go. and This is a kind of like you ah one of the beauty of the quotient. This method is very um goal-oriented. so its Everything that we do is really you know um propelled by the ah you know by this final or final goal.
00:53:52
Speaker
Yeah, and then this focus and the motivation that normally, ah you know, also energized by the by the coach and by by the clients itself. So, yeah, it's also kind of like make this transformation you know happen.
00:54:09
Speaker
And as you said that, yeah, it's me doing all of these things. Yeah. But at the same time, like ah his presence, right? So his feedback. So here really like his help, I think that make this journey much more profound and effective as, you know, as he, as you are doing, you know, like,
00:54:29
Speaker
by yourself, right? Without a code. 100%. So um speaking about like month and millions, so ah how much like a session costs and how many sessions one needs to get like to some tangible results.
00:54:42
Speaker
All right, OK, very, very straightforward. OK, good. First of all, yeah, you asked me how they find me. So basically, or and I would appreciate if we also put the some link to my website. So one of the platforms how to find me is my social media LinkedIn and my website. so And all the costs are is so placed on the website, so that there is no secret. ah so um how i So the cost of the session. So first of all, the very important thing is that ah Real transformation cannot be happened in one session.
00:55:17
Speaker
so yeah ah Sometimes I do a single session, but it's mostly for their clients who already used to be here in the in the coaching and they're coming back to just to double check something or share the progress with me and so on and so forth.
00:55:32
Speaker
So most of the clients who I work with is actually are are working on the kind of a series of the coaching session. And it's it's quite important. So and it's also helped us to set up a goal, right, after the, for example, five sessions or 10 sessions. So normally I operate by like a series of five sessions. But if the client needs more sessions, or of course, we just continue um up to the number that is really reasonable. So this is, as I always say, my job is not just, you know, link and hook people and, you know, being with me forever. They actually there. And I know it also as a leader who actually ah apply coaching for many years, even even before I became a professional coach. So ah they're also the key success factors of the coaching is actually that there is a like
00:56:29
Speaker
constant transformation through the session and between the sessions that that really happens because this is there this is the comes in when your focus is on your kind of goal. So that's why this series of the session will really make this process more transformative.
00:56:48
Speaker
So that's why we operate in the five or or ten sessions. And as I said, during the sessions and during this cooperation with the coach, you as a client will learn how to make self-coaching. So that's why I'm saying that that's not my job to yeah really, ah you know, stick to the coaching forever. No, that's my one of the success factor is that if you as my client really ah ah achieve what you want,
00:57:15
Speaker
And then also, ah like along the way, you also be better you know like a bit better person for yourself. yeah so that would be your yeah So that's why it's normally five for five sessions. And our viewers can look at the website and see your and see my price. So then or I can now announce... or So for five sessions, the the cost is $500.
00:57:43
Speaker
Yeah, and one more important thing is that because people have a very different expectation from the coaching. So the first time we actually I provide their or ah absolutely free of charge 45 minutes, when we're not for selling my services, the purpose is to really understand each other to really ah know what's and trying to dive deeper into the people, ah people goal.
00:58:08
Speaker
or The customer goal and really understand do we have a chemistry does the coaching matters really fit? ah To these people so then this is a kind of like intake session that really allow me to know person better and also vice versa to the person to know also what coaching might deliver to to them and Yeah, it totally makes sense. So our one more question in this chapter. so Has it always been a success? like Have there been ah cases where like your chemistry either happened or did not happen? and
00:58:46
Speaker
At the end of the day, you like had to roll up your sleeves and like to help client like troubleshoot what happened. Of course, there is the some are ah insignificant percentage of the people who are after the first intake session just not so not get back, which is fine because, as I said, the purpose is not really you know get the deal you know and make a contract. So really understand. So there is some percentage of people who know me and then Sometime most of the them, it's interesting, but most of the them them, even though they don't really make a contract right away, after some time they will go back. So maybe they just need more more time. Regarding these unsuccessful cases, So first of all, I invite you and your viewers to go my Facebook, because just recently, maybe last ah month, I started the series of the coaching skills, or you know, text the content. And so within this content, I actually explained, and one of their my illustrations was based on the unsuccessful cases. So I'm very, you know, openly, you know, talk about this.
00:59:59
Speaker
And ah just now, in a nutshell, without all the details, because all the details I really posted on the Facebook, um I can say that during the last six six years, I've ever managed to work with their more than 200 people.
01:00:20
Speaker
So ah then I also done like ah more than 1,000 caution hours. So it's quite a lot. So out of these 200 plus so customers, i we've got some ah hardship.
01:00:37
Speaker
and we actually cut off our cooperation for three of them. I don't know, I think that is not a is not a big number, three out of the 200 plus, but every customer is very valuable for me. So that's why I actually do reflection, and we normally do reflection with the customers. And for one of the case, we actually, we just reframed our kind of like our coaching agreement. So what does it mean? It means that after the three sessions, my client realized that the first goal that she set up for our coaching agreement
01:01:19
Speaker
was not valid any anymore. So we analyzed everything. So we put the efforts to connect this goal with her fundamental values. And she ended up with their conclusion that, no, it's not what I really want. So that's why the necessity of the coaching just you know was read off, right? So I don't think that it was there, you know, in success. I would rather put it into their, you know, into their bucket, saying, Okay, it's good that you that the person due to the coaching, really went to the some
01:01:58
Speaker
kind of deep reflection about what really, truly she she needs. so And I know that she appreciated this three sessions anyway, so it was not just because if she was unsatisfied with the service, it was about like reframing what she really needs. And she said, okay, when I really ah you know need but and what I see is the most valuable for me, so then I will probably come back again. So that's for me, it's kind of like and a good outcome. So it's really a show that people are very good at so self-awareness, which is super important for any leader or any innovator. There's another trait that really people need to pursue, the self-awareness, and also ah be good at empathy.
01:02:44
Speaker
Yeah, because it's also kind of like being able to communicate right what you really want, understand their other people's emotions. And yeah it's yeah, I think that it was yeah quite a good lesson for for both of us. Yeah.
01:03:01
Speaker
everything that we try to do in the life and change, it needs to be very good and very aligned with the overall ecosystem of our life. yeah So you it's all about like a balance and really understand if I do what I do, if I want to change something in my career, how would be your influence in my family life?
01:03:25
Speaker
yeah, my spiritual life, yeah, my some other, you know, things which I also, you know, value in my life. And, you know, there was some situation when the the person realized that there's some kind of the career goal was just not aligned with the what they want in their, you know, other parts of their life. So if it's really create a conflict, so nothing will really, you know, happen, you know nothing good will happen.
AI-Powered Coaching App
01:03:53
Speaker
So that's that's the true story. Yeah, that's life. You told me that ah you're kick-starting a new venture, like an AI coach, like a GenAI-powered application that helps people 24-7 as an on-demand coach or something like that. So don't you think that's like a sawing off the branch that you're sitting on, or it's more like a help in hand?
01:04:20
Speaker
so what will ah Let me also shortly introduce what we're trying to ah create and why we think that it's important and how it will be different. because um and so We try to create a coaching companion. so Basically, like imagine me, but not in the my physical outlook, but so what if I'm just sitting inside a mobile application you know and they're through AI coaching, you know do assist my clients. right so ah Why we are really and where we see our mission is actually to transform mental health care.
01:05:01
Speaker
and also well-being, an approach of the people to their well-being, to basically take control of the well-being of people. why these Through this mobile application driven on the AI or and ai solution.
01:05:18
Speaker
Why we think that this is important? Because we see that there is a huge mental health crisis. So a lot of people who are still need some well-being, mental health interventions. So I think that the biggest idea is that to make something, to make a product which will be available 24-7.
01:05:39
Speaker
And we can solve the problem of lack of for access of the people to their health care services. Because again, this is there by fact a lot of people who are struggling with their gatly success to their health care practitioners, yeah mental health care practitioners.
01:05:59
Speaker
answer even there And among those people who get connection, getting access, so most of them really claim that they actually either they are um appointment delayed or canceled, or sometimes it's also very important they don't have money.
01:06:17
Speaker
to continuously yeah go to the real person, like me, for instance, right or to to the psychologist, right or to any other you know helper. so here then The challenge that we have right now with this mobile application, and this is basically what we where we see our competitive advantage.
01:06:39
Speaker
We want to provide the AI or assistant who can really behave as a professional coach. So I have a PCC in coaching as a professional-certified coach. What does it mean? It means that and what makes the coach professional. One thing is that like a knowledge base. This is what I learned and studied as a coach. so basically all the knowledges, techniques, principles, my ethical codex, everything that I keep in mind to make you know to allow me to be a coach. The second thing which makes me a good coach is actually a number of hours that I've already ah you know provided to my customers because every hour make me more professional right because the different you know challenges, different you know obstacles, goals, and so on and so forth for different clients.
01:07:33
Speaker
So then we want to really ah make this AI coach inside our mobile application as well trained as possible. so and the second And the third thing, which is also make ah coach a good coach, is actually coach normally knows about person much more than just, sarah you know,
01:07:58
Speaker
How to say so ah because coach is actually a company person during some long time. Yeah. As I said, like it's like a five session, for example. So we are together on average three months, right? Four months, six months. So ah definitely coach knows the clients very, very well. Yeah.
01:08:18
Speaker
his lifestyle, right his habits, his way of processing things. yeah He's some mental you know kind of construct, right so how the clients really ah you know see the life, what they appreciate, and so on and so forth. These are the three ingredients that we try to put into the AI coach to be a professional AI coach. so that yeah that's there That's the idea.
01:08:45
Speaker
That sounds fascinating, but don't you think that an actual like virtual Special human, let's put it like that, can reproduce same level of chemistry, same level of empathy are as as ah as a human ah would be able to do. That's a challenge, of course. And of course, I will be very open. So of course, there are a lot of challenges and very sensitive things related to their, you know, kind of like a human being connections.
01:09:18
Speaker
So um I think that you're absolutely right. To behave apathetically and to understand how people really react, what's the problem is, how to you know understand the feeling, ah yeah to basically demonstrate this empathy and take care about the person.
01:09:39
Speaker
yeah Yeah, of course, that is very challenging. How are we now solving this? So we actually feed our AI um with a real conversation. So first of all, this knowledge base, as I said, so three ingredients. So the first thing that we, of course, uploaded some like a bunch of, you know, knowledges of the coaching and they're including their ethical ah conduct.
01:10:07
Speaker
It is very important for any coaching conversation. And the second thing, is we are we actually cooperate with the different so coach fellows. So then we, of course, get approval from them to use this session for training our coach. and Basically, this is there this is the main there are goal to, based on the real conversation, to real coaching conversation, train him I don't know, train AI yeah to be a real coach. yeah So now we are we are really on the prototype phase. So we see how AI really reacts. So what we need to really construct in this kind of conversation to get a good input, ah sorry, output right from the input that we that to be ah really include into this.
01:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I would say that we are in the, very um with the AI, we're in the beginning of the journey. So and if, of course, I i always looking for some enthusiasts, if, you know, if it will be any enthusiasts among your viewers,
01:11:17
Speaker
who want to join us and who have relevant skills but in the AI, machine learning and so on. So, ah very welcome. Because we are really we understand that we do quite ah difficult things, so that's why we need so more brains and more people to really be with us on this ah on this ah tech, yeah especially on the tech side. All right, good luck with that. yeah So if our listeners would like to contribute to that and become part of that successful story and to work with you as a very professional and passionate leader, you're more than welcome. I think I have ah only one a question remaining to you, Nadia. What's next?
01:12:02
Speaker
oh The time when I, as I told you, discovered myself and values and vision and everything that I really i really appreciate and what makes me myself, I think that what I also learned through this process is that so this journey is never ended.
01:12:24
Speaker
It's kind of, I'm very curious person. And we talk today how curiosity is ah probably one of the fundamental muscle or feature right of the any leader or innovator. So I think that I'm still very curious about what's going to be over the corner. And as I said, Vietnam is very good to kind of, ah you know, geographically, is very good area to be ah to be curious and anticipating what what's next.
Nadia's Continuous Learning Journey
01:12:54
Speaker
um And the I know that this curiosity is very much driven by my willingness to learn. And as you're as you already mentioned today, so I'm studying in Harvard. So for me, it's really our our kind of like a big deal, and I'm really learning a lot.
01:13:12
Speaker
And so so then probably I will find something new, you know whether ah during the study or during my startup, yeah because I really want to make our startup successful um and get investment and really put it into the making AI more professional and help more people right to take control over their well-being.
01:13:36
Speaker
So, I think that I am still learning and it's good. I like it to to be a constant learner in my life. So, that's why I think that some new thing is just, you know, um about over over the corner. Yeah, and I think that I'm really happy ah to leave my purpose, you know, to to really live for, according to what really, ah you know, ah make me alive.
01:14:02
Speaker
which is Kochenk and their business consultant. And now is there I'm in a new role of entrepreneurship. so And it its really, really drives me. So I think that just the new things you know might come. And i'm I'm very, very curious about about these new things.
01:14:21
Speaker
you were mentioned in the beginning of their podcast, ah something like you climbed to the nearest step of the career and so on. And I think that also it was one of the lesson um that I learned is actually I reframe my career from the stairs when you are really climbing from one you know step to another. I actually reframed it into the something more aspirational for me.
01:14:47
Speaker
For me, now I see my career is there very deep water. It's like a river, which is there. I'm moving to this river, yeah on this river, and actually enhancing more and more skills, people, experience, you know, projects. So, and I'm really, it makes me stronger, happier,
01:15:09
Speaker
and more self-aware.
Podcast Closing Remarks
01:15:12
Speaker
And I think that this ah also it's a very good you know ah way to also understand you yourself. Even this reframing really makes me a lot of strength and energy inside. So that's why I'm on my river. I'm moving. yeah I'm on the journey.
01:15:33
Speaker
are That was Nadi Deschkeves, a dishcar ah professional certified coach and a top executive who helps businesses and people around the world to reach new heights and become innovators. Thank you, Nadi. Thank you, Alex. It was a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you very much. Hey, thank you for tuning in into the show. You've been listening to The Month and Millions, a practical and inspiring show about innovators and emergent tech practitioners. Please subscribe to make sure that if you don't miss a new episode. I'm Alex Bobko and you've been listening to The Month and Millions. Goodbye.