Transcript
Speaker: I'm Jane Williams. This is the Red Eye Podcast. You can hear our live broadcast on Saturday mornings from 10 till noon at 100.5 FM in the Lower Mainland.
Speaker: On the podcast today, Lorraine Chisholm talks with Hayley Posslethwaite about the cleaning co-op and its mission. When most of us think of a cleaning company, we picture something pretty standard, employees working under a manager, decisions made from the top down, and profits going to the business owner.
Speaker: In Vancouver, a worker cooperative called The Cleaning Co-op is trying to disrupt the cleaning industry through non-exploitative employment, prioritize paying a fair wage, and promoting each other's well-being and equality.
Speaker: Hayley Posslethwaite is one of the founders of The Cleaning Co-op, and she joins me now. Hello, Hayley. Hello, thank you for having me. ah It's great to be talking to you. Now you're a cooperative and describe yourself as a people first organization. Why did you decide to create this non-hierarchical, non-profit organization that supports the work of cleaners?
Speaker: We started with what we didn't want. So exploitation, are worth being tied to our productivity, sexism in the workplace, a capitalist environment, we began there.
Speaker: So anything that we had experienced from our different lived experiences or backgrounds that we didn't want to bring into this organization, we just did the opposite. What were some of the stories, Haley, that you heard from the you know largely racialized women who work at cleaning it about how unsafe and unsustainable their work was before joining the the cleaning co-op?
Speaker: Yes, a lot of exploitation. so and wages that were below minimum wage, carrying their own supplies, working alone, you know being sent out to job sites that were unsafe, not being paid, so their paychecks not arriving on time, which had led to cases where they were evicted from their houses.
Speaker: So there were all sorts of situations, um including sexism in the workplace, that our team has experienced in previous cleaning companies, even top-rated cleaning companies in Vancouver.
Speaker: ah Some of their employees have come over to the cleaning co-op, and we have heard these stories from them in these capitalist environments where productivity is constantly put before the needs of the individual.
Speaker: So how do working conditions then differ for women who join your cooperative compared to either working on their own or working for a for-profit cleaning company?
Speaker: We're people first. So we're a team. No one is ever alone within TCC. So the cleaning co-op, we make sure that our clients are supportive of our mission and our values. And we make sure that our work is aligned with our values and safe for our people.
Speaker: So we offer living wages, ah paid travel time, healthy services. products and supplies to limit chemical exposure. we drive safe vehicles provided by Moto Car Share. They're a key partner for us. And so we're creating an environment where there is an opportunity to access living wages and ah safe work environment and also an empowering one.
Speaker: We offer reskilling and ah make decisions together as a group. And we're constantly working together. to grow the business. Now, I think it's interesting that you send people to the job sites, at least in pairs or not alone.
Speaker: What difference does that make? Well, you never know what you're walking into. So as much as we try to vet our clients and to set each service up for success, at the end of the day, you are walking into a number of different spaces that you may have not visited before, and it can present a number of challenges, not only unsafe situations, which we try to avoid, but overwhelming situations. So not only are our team cleaning, but they're also making decisions, time managing, providing customer service, doing conflict resolution on site.
Speaker: navigating a lot of complex situations in a country, in a new country, in a second language. It's a very stressful situation to be in. So by providing as many resources and communication and teamwork as possible, we try to lighten that load.
Speaker: It seems like that would also set up a sense of camaraderie between the people who are are working together and kind of make them feel stronger on the work site. We certainly try. We're always there, ah even in admin and through a lot of communications by text.
Speaker: We're with our team, even when we're working behind our computers and on site. Yes, we we do have a full time manager as well who tries to be there with the teams as much as possible. And we're always talking about teamwork and working together.
Speaker: So we really do try to form a community and get these jobs done in a fun way and safely. It's interesting that you work with and collaborate with other co-ops like Moto, the car sharing cooperative. What does that look like?
Speaker: Moto has been one of our key supporters. I don't think we would have had the growth that we have had if we didn't have Moto as a partner. From early on in our journey, we started cleaning Moto's cars. So we clean their whole fleet and we also drive 10 Moto fleet cars. So Without the support of other co-ops like Solid State Community Industries and Moto Car Share, it would have been really difficult to grow as we have done.
Speaker: Now, Hayley, you're a pretty young organization and you've also set yourself ah a tall order in terms of being and an ethical, community-minded operation. What are some of the areas that you're looking to strengthen as your organization grows and evolves?
Speaker: We keep a growth mindset. So even though we're in our third year only of business, we just keep learning and growing personally and professionally every single day. None of us came with a rich background of business experience or formal education in business. So we are just open to learning from mentors and aligned organizations around us.
Speaker: ah Anyone who's willing to offer us help, we take it and essentially and changing the type of work we do now that we have a better idea of what our strengths are and where our work could be of most value. ah We're going more towards commercial with other aligned organizations, cleaning commercially, and we still have a lot of residential clients that we're keeping on board.
Speaker: ah Haley, for myself as someone who has cleaned offices for a living in my younger days, mostly alongside racialized and immigrant women, what are your thoughts about trying to foster respect and dignity for people who do this very essential work?
Speaker: We talk about cleaning as just being a means to an end. Nobody wants to be cleaning forever. And if they do, that's fantastic. But a lot of our ah lot of our team are highly educated from other countries. And it's very difficult to translate that education, formal education, into something that they can utilize in Canada. It's very expensive and arduous journey for them. So cleaning might not be their goal or any of our goal, but it is the means to an end. And we believe that if we do it with our heads held high and we pick the right clients that are supporting our journey and we treat it as a dignified means to an end to get to our goals.
Speaker: And if we do it well in the meantime, then we foster an environment where cleaning is celebrated. we We like what we do. It's active. We are all passionate about cleaning. We love the experience that our clients get from our work.
Speaker: And we talk about it in a very positive way all the time. Now, why should people consider supporting the work of the cleaning co-op, say, compared to, you know, just having a cleaner come in individually? What what difference can it make?
Speaker: We believe that just because you can hire someone cheaper doesn't mean that you should. Unfortunately, hiring an independent often is contributing to exploitation as many cleaners, as you said, racialized women that are cleaning haven't had a business in Canada before and aren't maybe aware of some of the costs associated with doing business in BC, tax deductions, insurance, you know, CPP, WorkSafe, EI, um should they get injured to be able to retain their clients or have a job to return to, what we see often is independent cleaners, when they are sick or injured, they lose all of their clients because there's no one else to service those clients.
Speaker: and then they don't have work to return to. That can be a very devastating situation. But also having the awareness or having the education that there are taxes to pay on of every dollar that they make. There are business costs like transportation and um paying for their supplies. So if you're paying an individual $20, $25, $30 an hour, unfortunately, after you factor in those costs and some insurance for themselves,
Speaker: it isn't meeting minimum wage in British Columbia. And there's a very, well, it's a very tough spot to be in because, you know, being sick isn't an option or being injured isn't an option.
Speaker: so instead of cleaning independently, cleaning for an organization, especially a co-op or a people first organization, what we see is people do feel, women do feel at liberty to take days off if they're not feeling well or to be with their family, knowing that when we're going to stand in for them, nothing will change when they're feeling better and they're able to return to work, we will be there to welcome them.
Speaker: But it takes a lot of the stress and pressure off of performing alone when you're working as a part of a team. There's all of us, there's 30 of us there to help. Well, it just sounds like such a great project. And I really am so happy that you talked to me about it today.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having interest in our co-op. We're excited to keep growing and to onboard more organizations that are aligned that might need cleaning services and to talk about co-ops more.
Speaker: Great. I've been speaking with Haley Posslethwaite. Haley is one of the founders of The Cleaning Co-op, and you can find them at tccoop.ca.
Speaker: You've been listening to the Red Eye Podcast, produced by an independent media collective based in Vancouver. If you enjoyed this episode, it would be great if you left a review on Apple Podcasts.
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Speaker: And you can follow us on Blue Sky at Red Eye Radio. I'm Jane Williams. Thanks for listening.
