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Ep.10: Cultivating Community With Urban Flower Farmer Dee Hall of Mermaid City Flowers
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Have you ever wanted to start an urban or micro flower farm? In this episode of the Backyard Bouquet Podcast, we are joined by Dee Hall of Mermaid City Flowers as she shares her journey as a sustainable, urban flower farmer in Norfolk, Virginia. Dee shares the joys and challenges of growing native perennials, building a micro-flower farm on multiple urban plots, and fostering a sense of community among flower farmers. Discover the importance of supporting local growers, the beauty of incorporating native plants into arrangements, and the power of collaboration within the flower farming community. Gain insights into starting your own flower farm, exploring the world of native perennials, and finding inspiration in sustainable growing practices.
From the vibrant blooms of an urban flower farm to the beauty of native perennials, this episode is a celebration of the joy and wisdom found in cultivating flowers. Listen to the conversation to learn about the benefits of growing local, the impact of climate change on flower farming, and the value of creating connections within the flower farming community. Whether you're a backyard gardener or aspiring flower farmer, this episode will inspire you to let your backyard bloom and embrace the beauty of sustainable and regenerative growing practices.
In this episode, you’ll hear about:
00:01:29 - Dee Hall's Flower Farming Journey
00:06:36 - Utilizing Available Growing Spaces
00:07:19 - Community Flower Farming
00:08:57 - "Why Not Me?"
00:10:22 - Benefits of Creating Flower Farming Communities
00:14:34 - Childhood Influences on Flower Farming Passion
00:16:51 - Planning and Preparing for Flower Growing Season
00:19:43 - Favorite Flowers to Grow
00:22:33 - Managing Growing Spaces and Plots
00:26:29 - Flower Farming Business Model and Offerings
00:27:13 - Local Farmer's Markets
00:31:32 - Tidewater Flower Collective
00:36:33 - Local Flowers for Weddings
00:44:44 - Black Flower Farmers Collective
00:53:03 - Native Plants and Sustainability in Flower Farming
00:56:04 - Learning in Flower Farming
Episode 10 Show Notes
Dee Hall and Mermaid City Flowers:
- https://www.mermaidcityflowers.com/
- https://www.instagram.com/mermaidcityflowers
- https://www.blackflowerfarmers.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to Backyard Bouquet
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Backyard Bouquet podcast, where stories bloom from local flower fields and home gardens. I'm your host, Jennifer Galitzia of the Flowering Farmhouse.
From Gardener to Flower Farmer
00:00:12
Speaker
I'm a backyard gardener turned flower farmer located in Hood River, Oregon. Join us for heartfelt journeys shared by flower farmers and backyard gardeners. Each episode is like a vibrant garden, cultivating wisdom and joy through flowers. From growing your own backyard garden to supporting your local flower farmer,
00:00:32
Speaker
The backyard bouquet is your fertile ground for heartwarming tales and expert cut flower growing advice. All right flower friends, grab your gardening gloves, garden snips, or your favorite vase because it's time to let your backyard bloom.
Sustainable Flower Farming with Dee Hall
00:00:56
Speaker
Today's guest on the podcast is Dee Hall from Mermaid City Flowers in Norfolk, Virginia. Dee is a flower farmer who practices sustainable and regenerative growing on a micro flower farm with a special interest in growing native perennials. She is also the founder of Black Flower Farmers and Tidewater Flower Collective.
00:01:18
Speaker
I'm so excited to learn more about Dee and her flower farm today. Please join me in welcoming Dee to the Backyard Bouquet podcast. Good morning, Dee. Thanks for joining us today. Good morning. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Good. I'm happy to be here.
00:01:36
Speaker
I'm so happy that you are here with us today. Thank you so much for carving some time to chat with us on the podcast. And I know that my listeners and myself included are so excited to learn more about you. So if you don't mind, would you give us a brief background on who you are and what you do in the floral industry?
00:01:59
Speaker
I'm Dee Hall. I run Mermaid City Flowers, as you said. It's an urban cut flower farm in Norfolk, Virginia. So I have the flower farm and I do floral design. And it's a little unusual, my model. I don't grow in one large traditional growing space. I grow in smaller lots throughout the city.
00:02:20
Speaker
totally about an acre, but I am scaling back a little this season to focus on more design work and less growing.
00:02:30
Speaker
coming out of that I also started a local growers collective and then I started a second collective because why not when we're we're doing things and both are informal I know collective can have different meanings to you know different people second collective black flower farmers that's a group of international an international group of growers around the world like meet for fellowship commune help each other learn you know
00:02:55
Speaker
everything you would think of when you have like kind of a cool eclectic group of people who are all interested in the same thing or do the same thing professionally. You sound like a very busy lady. And before we started recording, you shared with me that you're also a mom of four children. Is that correct? Yeah, I am. So, you know, just occasionally I have a couple of things to do.
00:03:22
Speaker
We're going to touch on all of that today. I'm so excited. So let's start. What growing zone are you located in?
Challenges in Flower Farming
00:03:30
Speaker
As of now, the new USDA zoning, I am now in zone 8B, which
00:03:37
Speaker
I mean, I've kind of known for a while based on when stuff we just had, unusual for us, we had a pretty hard freeze last week, but there were bachelor's buttons already starting to pop up and rununculus and anemones that had, you know, greened out that had overwintered. So I keep saying that pretty soon we're here, we're going to be having flowers, you know, besides hellebores in January, like Valentine's Day. So you're like, Oh, wow, we're getting stuff by Valentine's Day. But
00:04:07
Speaker
It keeps inching closer towards January.
00:04:11
Speaker
Wow. Okay, so for those listening that are not familiar when I asked about your growing zone, the USDA releases a hardiness map that tells us our growing zone and what that is, is it tells us when our last average frost date is. And that's an important aspect if you are growing a flower farm or a garden because you want to know when you're putting out your tender annuals and perennials
00:04:38
Speaker
that it's past that last frost date. What's interesting is we're both now a zone 8B. I was previously a 7B, but I'm buried in snow as we're talking. My last frost date is May
00:05:00
Speaker
first? When is your last frost date? I guess now I think for AP, it's probably like April 1. But the weather is so like I said, last week we had a hard freeze and then today it's 70 degrees, the highest 70 degrees today. Oh, I'm NVS. I know, but it's largely variable and it can make it tricky for when to put out
00:05:22
Speaker
plants. I have plugs that they're overdue for going out, but we had that heart freeze so I had to bring them in where it was warmer last week and I will probably plant them out. I have to check the forecast and see if it looks like it's going to be reasonable over the next week. That way I can transition them and get them in the ground safely.
00:05:47
Speaker
So in your introduction, you mentioned that you grow on several plots that total about an acre. Can you please share with us how did you get your start in flower farming? And did you start immediately with these plots of lander? Take us back to the beginning.
00:06:04
Speaker
So I was looking for flowers and couldn't find flowers in bulk, locally grown flowers in bulk. And I'd always been a gardener myself.
00:06:17
Speaker
I had some space. My house is on about a quarter of an acre and there were some diseased trees that were removed and it offered up some space. It was grass. There was nothing else there and I had already had a small plot and I decided, well, I can't find what I'm looking for.
00:06:35
Speaker
Why not me? I'll be the one, you know, I can grow flowers. Sure, I can take them to market. And I did just that. So my lot was forward facing. So I got lots of opportunities. I lived in a big garden neighborhood. So I got lots of opportunities to talk to people about plants and gardening.
00:06:55
Speaker
And people would see me, you know, ask what I'm doing, kind of talk about it. And so one neighbor offered, you know, hey, I have space. I love plants, but I don't really know what I'm doing. I built these raised beds. I've got drip tape, you know, I've got this and that, but I can't really grow anything. Would you like to use the space? And I said, you know, sure, it was directly across the street.
00:07:19
Speaker
didn't have to do anything, didn't have to add anything. He already had a rain barrel set up to the drip tape with a pump system and all that. I mean, I kind of got really lucky out of the gate. And from then, different people came to me in different ways. A neighbor saw, another neighbor saw something on PBS about offering up unused
00:07:41
Speaker
spaces in your home just grass lawn to people to be able to grow something and she posted that in our Facebook group and I got in contact and so then I acquired space there and eventually I put out a call like a soft call on just on Instagram saying hey I'm looking for growing space if you know anybody that has any that fits this description let me know and so
00:08:04
Speaker
it's kind of spiraled from there so now i have space and i also kind of have a i have reserved plots that i haven't actively used yet but are available should i want or need to expand and i really like my somewhat unusual model
00:08:24
Speaker
As you said, sustainability is very important and what could be more sustainable than literally having flowers growing in the neighborhood where people can see me walking up and down the street with my giant gorilla cart full of tools and seedlings and whatever else.
Opportunities and Community Building in Flower Farming
00:08:44
Speaker
That's how I got started. I love that. You used up your space and then you got creative.
00:08:52
Speaker
asked neighbors and were offered space. Going back just a little bit, you said something that I really love that has been kind of a driving force for me with My Flower Farm too. You said, you thought to yourself, why not me? That is one of my favorite sayings, why not me?
00:09:14
Speaker
There's so much room for all of us in the flower industry and the flower industry is growing by leaps and bounds still. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I remember hearing statistics that said that there's substantial growth that's going to happen in the next few years. So it's the perfect time if someone's listening and thinking, maybe I should start a flower farm or start a flower garden. I love that.
00:09:39
Speaker
Yeah, and I know, I mean, like I said, I run a local growers collective and there are other people who grow in my city in a similar, you know, fashion being urban, we kind of have to make the best of
00:09:54
Speaker
the space that we've got available. And I have found gardeners and flower farmers to be among the most helpful people, one of the best communities, and that we all want to see each other do well and flourish. And I mean, it's been
00:10:14
Speaker
Nothing but fantastic for me. And I think a lot of people have had the same experience. It can be very solitary. So one thing I love about creating these communities is having a space to say, hey, like, is this happening in your name? Did you guys get a hail too? Or what's happening? Or even if you're commiserating in the summer about, you know, tarnish bugs or have gotten the dahlias. I hate it. I'm over it. I'm ready to give up this season or whatever. It's nice to have.
00:10:41
Speaker
that community with other people who kind of have adopted that, why not me attitude there? I mean, we're in a very tiny group, flower farmers, right, among like farming at large. And I'm glad it's gaining popularity and more and more people are interested. Absolutely. I love what you said. We are a small community of growers that are around the country.
00:11:07
Speaker
And it is so helpful to be able to reach out and ask questions because so much of it is learning as we go. Every year I learn more and more. And when we can share our knowledge, it benefits everyone. If one person learns how to take care of a pest in the garden without using pesticides and can share that with another, I call that a huge win. So I love that. Thank you.
00:11:33
Speaker
Going back to your gardens first, I want to touch on the collectives but I'm very curious to know more about your setup because there's so many people listening who would love to have a flower farm or a flower garden but lack space. How many lots are you growing on right now? I'm growing on I think five lots actively and I intentionally
00:11:59
Speaker
kept the distance short. So I recently moved, but all of the plots I had were, in most cases, five minutes or less from my house, definitely no longer than 10 minutes from my house, because I knew that I didn't want to spend lots of time driving back and forth. You know, there are some spaces where I can't keep tools and I didn't want to think, oh, I forgot, you know, this shovel and I need to go back and get it or, you know, I need
00:12:27
Speaker
I forgot my seaweed fertilizer or whatever it is and have to like go back and forth constantly. So I wanted to make sure I had an opportunity to just be close by. And the biggest boon that I found actually is just being an active community member. Lots of the spaces I've acquired have been by word of mouth. You know, when I looked on Instagram,
00:12:54
Speaker
When I asked on Instagram, you know, I had people that said, well, I'm not there or I don't have any space, but I shared this with somebody I know and just other people helping to make those connections. So use those connections that you have. And I think it's for me, luckily it's grown very organically. You know, I love to talk to people. I love to talk to people about plants.
00:13:19
Speaker
And like I said, plant people are some of the best people and I've kind of just capitalized on that.
00:13:26
Speaker
that people have been willing and able to have space that they're, I mean, it's grass, they're not doing anything, right? They would just have to cut it if there wasn't any, if I wasn't using it, and now they get to see flowers, I have conversations with people, I've made friends with the neighbors, you know, I bring plants. It's just part of a larger attitude that is important to me about cultivating not just flowers, but cultivating community as well.
00:13:55
Speaker
Flowers really have a way of bringing people together. For sure. Yeah, they can evoke memory. I mean, everybody knows when you're at farmer's market, somebody comes up to you. Are those sweet peas? My grandmother used to grow these. Or what's that smell? It's so familiar to me. It definitely can be evocative. And so many people have memories attached, many of us, to different flowers. Absolutely. Do you have a favorite memory with flowers?
00:14:23
Speaker
I mean I was raised at my grandmother's knee in her garden. One of my most prominent memories is she actually had this night blooming cactus. It was kind of like a rare event and she would always get her friend who was a photographer to come out and photograph her night blooming cactus. She was actually also a lay florist with
00:14:45
Speaker
A rather large garden, my family is from St. Lucian the Caribbean, so they bought this house that had been a library. My grandparents converted the library on this very sandy lot near the beach. She had all this soil trucked in and created this garden that still exists where she had, you know, one of my favorite pictures of me is I'm holding a zinnia in her garden and she had orchids and ferns and roses and all sorts of things that I would see her making arrangements, old school, you know.
00:15:15
Speaker
and people coming to pick them up for weddings or other events, et cetera. So I actually got to see unbeknownst to me like a lay farmer florist at work, right? And never thought that this would end up being my path with the irony of having that experience. Yeah, having so many memories attached to that and then growing up in New York across the street from the Brooklyn Botanic Garden where I was a children's garden member and spent
00:15:44
Speaker
quite a lot of time in my childhood and also doing, uh, work in community gardens there growing up. So none of this, I guess, is kind of unfamiliar to me. I just never thought, oh, this is going to end up being a career path. All this, you know, people say, how do you get your knowledge? Well, I mean, I literally kind of grew up in and around it and, and, you know, it was unexpected, but here I am and I love it.
00:16:11
Speaker
That's amazing. It's kind of just in your blood. Yeah. That's a great story. What a special childhood and something that you can do that your grandmother once did as well.
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's cool. I just had some pictures pop up yesterday of arrangements of hers. So that's cool to see too, like having photos of her work too. Still passed on a couple of years ago, but that's really cool. Sorry. Memories when they pop back up like that are some of the best. Yes. Yeah. I love that you can carry a part of her with you in your gardens. So tell me, what are you growing in your gardens now?
Flower Growing Schedules and Favorites
00:16:51
Speaker
so right now i'm a little behind but because we're in zone 8b i tell people i normally don't plant my tulips out till january i will store them in cold storage and then i pop them in the ground in january because we usually don't
00:17:07
Speaker
have hard freezes. The ground remains soft. I put them in and then I start getting blooms, you know, mid to late February. There's also the standard spring stuff. I have anemones. I have ranunculus. I've got, you know, Queen Anne's Lace and its variants for Leia, you know, Docus.
00:17:27
Speaker
Lizzie Anza said I hope won't bloom short because I really should have put them in this fall. I've got snapdragons, I've got bachelors buttons.
00:17:37
Speaker
I've got a host of different things, all kind of like the typical, you know, flower farmer 101 that you think of as, as starting, you know, at the beginning of your season. And I tell people I'm kind of lucky because I have a little bit of a cheat sheet and that Lisa Mason Ziegler lives like 30 minutes from me. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so I'm like, whenever, whenever Lisa is starting something, if you live here, that means you can do it too. Like literally we have
00:18:07
Speaker
an expert in our backyard, and that is a great tool. She provides lots of information to flower farmers and backyard gardeners alike, and I'm like, well, there you go. Utilize that. If she's doing it and you live here, you can do it at about the same time.
00:18:26
Speaker
Absolutely. That's such a good point going back to earlier when we talked about community and sharing our knowledge. If anyone listening is newer to growing flowers and kind of unsure of when you should be starting certain flowers, one of the best ways to know is to find other growers in your area, watch what they're doing on social media or reach out to them or see if there's a collective
00:18:52
Speaker
or a co-op or a Facebook group or something that you can get connected with because if they're planting right now, it's probably a good time to be planting. For example, I love hearing how you're saying you're starting your tulips now where I have to start mine in November so that the roots can establish before it freezes because we do get the hard freeze. So someone watching me
00:19:17
Speaker
might be getting misinformation if they're in a very different growing environment than what you are growing in. So it's so great to connect with people that are in our same growing environments. I love that. Thank you. Do you have a favorite flower to grow?
00:19:32
Speaker
to grow. Everybody hates, all flower farmers hate these from the perspective of cutting them, but bachelor's buttons, I absolutely love. Just the color is like nothing else. The traditional cornflower blue, it was one of the flowers that I would get asked about most that people would literally stop their cars and get out and say, hey, is that cornflower? My grandmother used to grow that.
00:20:01
Speaker
And I love it. It's just so impactful and vibrant and we don't have lots of things in that. I mean, of course it comes in a variety of colors, but I'm thinking about like the traditional blue, bright blue bachelors button, which we actually have a native variety of, which is pretty cool too. But yeah, that's one of, that's my favorite to grow. My favorite flowers are ranunculus.
00:20:26
Speaker
I love that ranunkeylets can look like everything from a rose to a poppy or an anemone depending on the cultivar. I think that's such a cool feature. I love a flower that can kind of double or triple as other things. And sometimes I even have to do a double take. I'm like, wait, did I plant poppies here? No, these are just like the single petal ranunks.
00:20:53
Speaker
So I love, I absolutely love those. They were always my favorite flower even before I grew them. And now growing them here where they can perennialize, which is fantastic. That's amazing. I just, I love having a sea of, of renunks in the spring. Plus my birthday's in April, so it's around the same time. So I think of those as being like the flower that, you know, I see around my birthday or for my birthday. They bloom just for you. Yeah.
00:21:22
Speaker
So you perennialize your renunculus. You don't dig them or start fresh each year. It depends. I try to dig them, but I often miss I don't get them all up. And so once that I get up, I will I'll just put them. I don't do much like I don't shake the dirt off or anything. I kind of just.
00:21:44
Speaker
Toss them in a bucket or pot in a shed. And then in October or November, I like to pre-sprout mine, generally speaking. So I wake them up. I just do... I know there are different methods that people like to use to rehydrate corms. I like to do, you know, the bucket with the fish tank filter. So you've got a little...
00:22:14
Speaker
uh you know bubble action going and i'll let that sit for a couple hours and then i just put them in trays of damp soil and i leave them in my shed make sure they don't get dried out and then when i see them starting to green out
00:22:30
Speaker
I know what I've got. So that's one reason I like to remove them from, take them up from seasons prior is to, you know, be able to control the rates, especially since I'm small space growing of not taking up space with things that are not, not in good condition, not in good quality and will not survive another season. You know, I don't really have the space for things that are not going to come up or flourish.
00:22:57
Speaker
You have to be very selective and picky when you're growing on a small space. Yes, for sure. I'm experimenting this year by accident. Uh, I normally dig up my Renunculus and start fresh and I'll save some of them, but I usually get new ones, new quorums each year, but we're currently in the process of having to relocate part of our fields. We have two different fields and one of them, we have to be.
00:23:22
Speaker
Relocated by the end of February of 2024, which is for those listening as this is airing, that's a month from now. So we're less than a month from now. So we're under the gun to get it all finished, but I didn't have time to start new Renunculus this year. I had bought a bunch and I ended up selling them all off and I thought, well, I'm not going to have Renunculus this year.
00:23:43
Speaker
And then I walked out into our other field that we still have. And I have two 60 foot rows of ranunculus that I had left untouched. I never got around to them this last year. And they're all growing and some of them were even setting up flowers. I think the flowers might be gone. We right now are sitting under a bunch of snow, but I think the plants will still be there. Yeah, the plants will probably be, you know, and I noticed I have a new plot that I added last year.
00:24:12
Speaker
I'm like, oh, wow, this is, you know, this is great. Renunculus are doing well. New problem. It's pests eating there early in the season. And so I don't know if it's squirrels or what, but there's early green in this. At this time of year when, you know, food sources are scarce, they're seeing that green and they're going for it. So I'm like, oh, OK, well, here's a new problem I'm going to have to figure out how to deal with. So.
00:24:36
Speaker
I last year planted alliums in between every 10 feet. Uh-huh, that's a good, that's a good, yeah. I have a ton of alliums, so I'm lucky enough that one of the people that I grew up with, who was like a second mother to me in New York, was always a big-time gardener. Still, she works with a non-profit, America the Beautiful, and at the end of different big-box stores, gardening seasons, they give her all their bulbs,
00:25:05
Speaker
thousands and thousands and she ships them out to different organizations and people throughout the country, including me. So she just called me the other day and she sent me a box of 1000 alliums. That's on Oh my goodness. That's a ton. Yeah. So I'm gonna experiment with the same thing this year seeing if that's a deterrent. Um, you know, because onion family and they don't like that smell or taste generally. So we'll see how that goes.
00:25:33
Speaker
I had very low pest pressure on my ranunculus last year, and I'm attributing it to that. We'll see if that is the actual case or not. I found, because I didn't do anything with the alliums other than putting them there for pest, reducing pest pressure, they dried on the stems beautifully.
00:25:53
Speaker
And I have the dried allium stems in my house now as decoration since we're in the middle of winter. Yeah, there's another. Yeah, there's another use for them, right? Because they look great dried. So anybody that has dried florals or uses dried florals in their in their off season, so to speak. Yeah, that's that's a great one for it. So you grow lots of different types of flowers. What do you do with the flowers that you grow?
Business Models and Market Participation
00:26:18
Speaker
So I have a website where I, you know, people can go in and order what floor is called dailies. I also do corporate events. I do a small number of weddings. I'm a preferred vendor for a couple of different venues here locally.
00:26:37
Speaker
I have subscriptions as well. And this year I'm going back to market. I haven't done market in a couple of years, but I got asked to come back to market this year and it's across the street from my studio, literally. So I will just be able to prep and then take things across the street. So it was kind of like, well, this is a no brainer to come back. When you say market, are you talking about a farmer's market? Yes, a farmer's market.
00:27:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's so convenient. Yes, absolutely. Because I think for a lot of us, farmers market can be a slog, you know, the getting up the prep, you know, all the things that come that go into getting to the actual market. But with it being there, I was like, yeah, yeah, let's do it. Let's see how how it goes this year.
00:27:26
Speaker
Oh, that's fabulous. So is it a summer market or how long does your market go? It's actually six months. It goes from March to October, which is a fairly long market season, but it's every other Friday. So it's not a weekly market.
00:27:43
Speaker
which I am not equipped to handle for various reasons, including my family, et cetera, balancing my subscriptions, my other work. I want to make sure, and I'm still one woman operation, even though I do think I am going to get an assistant that can be the one who's at the farmer's market at the stall.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yeah, that model works kind of better for me, and it's in a really walkable area, walkable neighborhood, and so generally does well.
00:28:13
Speaker
That sounds amazing. Sounds like a great opportunity. And how neat that it's every other week from a vendor perspective because farmer's markets, like you just said, are so time consuming. That's something that's kept me from getting more actively involved in a farmer's market is I work all week in the field and ours are on a Saturday. And so it's like, I want time with my family. So it's that balance. Yeah. It's exhausting too, because after you do market the day after you just have that like the market hangover, you just,
00:28:43
Speaker
are not really up for doing very much and this one is on a Friday evenings which is kind of an unusual time but also not the worst time either because people are leaving work they're kind of hanging out there's restaurants in the area etc so there's yeah the foot traffic from all of that is pretty good they have a you know live band they have music playing and that sort of thing so do you make bouquets or do you have standalone stems what how do you set up your farmers market
00:29:12
Speaker
I make bouquets. I am one of those people who's like the, I know people who the standalone stems work great for them, but I found in times of, you know, when I've offered like a bouquet bar, so to speak, that people
00:29:28
Speaker
They want guidance anyway. They want help. They don't know what to do. They get nervous. They're picking flowers up, putting them down, etc. And so I found it easier to have bouquets in the past. But since I'm going to have this long market season that I haven't had in a couple of years, it may be a good time to experiment and do a combination of things and see what works well. I actually filled in for a friend who was doing
00:29:58
Speaker
the market there. And after I did the market, I said, you know, well, how much were you charging for your bouquets? And she said, I was charging this much. And I'm like, well, I charged more and they sold. So just so you know, the market can hold that amount because, again, I want all of us to be able to to do well and to be able to be financially successful and keep our businesses afloat and keep going.
00:30:22
Speaker
Absolutely. That's such a great point because a lot of times people associate going to a farmer's market and finding cheaper flowers, but we have to make sure that we're pricing our bouquets so that we are paying ourselves for our time and our supplies and our materials. There's a lot that goes into the creation of when people, oh, it's just wildflowers or it's just a market bouquet. Well, we have picked out those seeds, tended them for months at a time.
00:30:52
Speaker
indoors and then organ greenhouses and planting them out, harvesting them, conditioning, getting them to market. From start to finish, growers definitely deserve to be compensated for all of that work, which is a lot. Absolutely. That's such a great point. Thank you for mentioning that.
00:31:15
Speaker
And earlier in our conversation, you mentioned you are part of a couple collectives. The one that I wanted to touch on first is, is it the Tidewater Flower Collective that is your local community one? Yes. Yeah. Can you tell us about that?
00:31:32
Speaker
So when I first started growing, there were almost no growers in the area. I knew one person was a friend of mine who had a flower farm and that was it. But I was on Instagram and kind of
00:31:48
Speaker
put hashtags together so I could try to find people who are local flower farmers. And eventually the algorithm kept saying, you know, suggesting, hey, you may want to, you know, friend this person or follow this person. And I did. And I started saying, well, hey, I'm putting together a little group of us just so we can know who's in the area, kind of chit chat and see what happens. And so
00:32:16
Speaker
It grew from there, and I think there are about 30 of us now, maybe, within maybe a two-hour radius in different directions.
00:32:28
Speaker
And so that's fantastic. We all have different models. Some people have, you know, pick your own. Some people sell wholesale only. Some people do farmer's market. Some people have, you know, farm stands. There are people like me, you know, who are farmer florists and, you know, some people who don't do design work at all. There's just kind of a large variety of growers and models.
00:32:55
Speaker
which is really cool to see too.
00:32:59
Speaker
So how does the collective work do you meet for educational purposes? Do people gather to sell their flowers? Can you elaborate on that for us, please? We have an Instagram group where we kind of chit chat. There are a couple of growers who will regularly organize buying supplies, whether it's seeds or plugs, et cetera. And then we have a chance to, especially for
00:33:28
Speaker
growers who are not growing on large scales to buy wholesale or buy in bulk and get those reduced rates that we might not be able to manage on our own for people doing that. We also, we haven't had a get together for a bit, but we were trying to get together quarterly. I think we're going to try to do, I want to say February, but
00:33:51
Speaker
Valentine's Day is kind of hairy. Get together to hang out. We often freelance for one another or even buy from one another. If somebody's looking for something specific for a client and they don't have it, you know, they know they can get it from that person. We give away lots of plans to one another. Hey, guys, guess what? The RNGM took over my field. So come and get it or whatever it is.
00:34:21
Speaker
We did try to establish a more formal co-op to get together and do wholesale to florists. And I helped in the creation of that originally, but then I had to step back. I had too many obligations between my own work, family, etc. And so that co-op is not active. But, you know, I do have hopes for the future that we'll be able to form another wholesale collective eventually and
00:34:51
Speaker
help the public learn more about locally grown flowers as part of the, you know, buy local, shop local movement.
00:35:01
Speaker
I think that's fantastic. I am in the Columbia River Gorge and we don't have a formal collective here, but we have a group. We mostly communicate through Instagram chat and then we try and meet up throughout the year. But one thing that I really love is that we will, for those that are smaller growers, we'll go in on orders. So if someone's ordering a wholesale order and can't meet that minimum,
00:35:27
Speaker
they'll often reach out to the group and say, hey, I want to order Lizzianthus from Farmer Bailey's.
00:35:35
Speaker
which is awesome. And then the other thing that we do is like you mentioned, the buying from each other, someone like for me, I'm niching down this year and I'm really focusing on my dahlias and I'm going to be growing less of everything else. But I know that some of the other growers, for example, Paul Mattelucci was on one of my earlier podcasts. He has a four acre farm here in Hood River and he often grows things that I don't grow. So
00:36:02
Speaker
We've been able to help each other out and buy from each other instead of having to go to the wholesale market in Portland I can call up a local grower and say hey I'd love to support your business That way we keep our money in the community and also support one another because when we build each other up We all are elevated and I think that's something really special
00:36:22
Speaker
For sure. I'm getting, yeah, I'm getting married in June and I actually- Oh, congratulations. Thank you. I actually texted two growers today because obviously I'm going to do the wedding fires, but I know the day of, right? I'm not going to be on the ground doing that. So I actually reached out to two growers today that I like and have worked with and collaborated with in the past. Like, hey, guys, because when I told them I got engaged, they were like, let us know what we can do. We're here for you. And I'm like,
00:36:51
Speaker
I think I'm gonna need your help. So I'm calling this in, but I love that and I love, love having that. I'm like, don't feel obligated, but you know, everybody wants to try to help one another because it comes back. I love that. I love being able to
00:37:08
Speaker
have those peers who are also friends who want to see each other do well. And I never feel like I'm in competition with people. We all have our own clientele. We all have our own little slots that we fit into. And yeah, it's fantastic to have that.
00:37:30
Speaker
Oh, that's amazing. Well, okay. So we have to talk about you getting married. So you're getting married in June and you just said you're doing your flowers, but not the day of actual part of that. So are you growing your flowers? I'm going to grow them and I'm going to prep the day before, but I think for the actual installations, I'm going to lean on.
00:37:51
Speaker
other florists, other farmer florists to help me get through the installation because I don't, I don't think that's, you know, the kind of stress that I want to be dealing with on the day of, you know, is this art gonna stay in place or whatever it is.
00:38:08
Speaker
but yeah i absolutely am growing my own flowers and i told my group i was like hey i'm getting married these are the colors i'm looking for so just so you know if anybody's gonna have whatever you're gonna have in tune i would love to include and incorporate you know all the locally grown only locally grown flowers and one of the reasons we picked tune was i mean for me that's like a prime flower month like there's a grower here that has a peony farm so i know i can probably
00:38:38
Speaker
ask her to dry store because June is like on the edge of our peony, you know, normally here like Mother's Day is really big for for peonies and they kind of start trickling off. But I can ask for dry stores so I can get peonies or I can get whatever it is that other people specialize in that I might not grow that I'd like to have.
00:38:58
Speaker
And so that was how people like, oh, how do you decide? Well, I grow flowers. So the flowers made the decision for me. I love it. You mentioned you have some colors picked out. What colors are you using in flowers for your wedding?
00:39:15
Speaker
It's funny because one of the colors is peach and I just have to point out that I picked peach fuzz before I knew it was going to be the Pantone color of the year. So I thought that was kind of funny that it ended up being a big color.
00:39:31
Speaker
peaches, corals, like a range of oranges and blues and creams and greens, stuff that is kind of spring and neutral, but can be very pastel, but also very vibrant, kind of the range. And I think that'll be a fun combination. That sounds absolutely beautiful. And you know, I feel like those colors have already started kind of trending prior to Pantone announcing the peach fuzz.
00:40:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I feel like I'm noticing them more now. I don't know if it's because I've chosen them or if, you know, I was swayed by the trends without realizing it, but I thought that that's too funny. So I get a lot of emails on a regular basis and people reaching out to me on Instagram and they will say, I'm growing flowers for my wedding. I'm growing flowers for my friend's wedding. Someone's wedding they need flowers for. And
00:40:31
Speaker
I think a lot of people still think that they need to go and order a bunch wholesale when I love that you just said you're focusing on everything local. Can you talk about what local flowers you're going to be including in your summer wedding bouquet and arrangements? Because I think that will be super helpful for people listening that are thinking, well, what flowers can I grow for a wedding? Oh, absolutely. So here,
00:40:57
Speaker
At that time of year, we have just about everything. So, like I said, we'll have peonies. We will have bachelors buttons that I love. I will have Orleia. The Plurum for foliage will still be growing. All the various Echinatias that look fantastic will be going.
00:41:17
Speaker
might have dianthus it depends i didn't do well with dianthus last year and normally that you know we have it for mother's day but i'm actually thinking for myself i might grow some in an area that's more shaded to kind of slow their growth slow their progress which that's another tip guys if there are things that
00:41:37
Speaker
do well in a range of growing conditions and you want to try to control those conditions, you know, maybe take them out of full sun, put them into partial shade and that'll slow their progress. So I'm going to use that as a technique. What else? Roses.
00:41:53
Speaker
prime time here for roses as well. I'm actually getting ready to order a bunch of roses that I'm going to utilize. All the aromatics, you know, all the various basil, rosemary, lavender, all the things that we think of. Nigella, just a host of things. There's so many, so many things. And maybe dahlias, you know, I have some dahlias
00:42:20
Speaker
are, you know, they perennialize here too. And I didn't dig some, but I think some of the ones I didn't dig are later varieties. So I was actually just the other day, even though I'm like, no more dahlias, I'm not gonna buy any more tubers.
00:42:33
Speaker
looking to kind of check out early varieties, you know, in the colors that I'm interested in to maybe get some farmers are offering the option to ship whatever you'd like. So, you know, getting early shipping, seeing if I can, you know,
00:42:51
Speaker
get those flowers or get those plants into production and to start producing early and maybe taking cuttings, etc., in the hopes of being able to have flowers by June. But it's, you know, it's iffy.
00:43:07
Speaker
Well, at least you'll have the peonies and the renunculus. And I just saw that, I think it's 1-800-Flowers, I saw it on Martha Stewart, that peonies are the flower of the year. So your wedding's perfect timing for that. Oh wow, look at that. Yeah, that's fantastic. I love peonies. I especially love
00:43:28
Speaker
that you can get American-grown peonies. Like I said, you know, here, May is the big prime time, and then later there's June and other places in the country, but then Alaska has peonies, so you can have American-grown peonies from Alaska, you know, in July and August, and that's pretty cool too.
00:43:46
Speaker
Yes. There are so many flowers that are now available in the US. Those that are listening that are getting married are part of a wedding. Make sure you are choosing local or asking what is locally available at the time of year you're getting married. For sure. There are lots of options including
00:44:08
Speaker
give a shout out to the ASCFG, our specialty cut flower growers organization that maintains a website that helps people to find local growers and also a florist who utilize local flowers. Yes, that's great advice. Thank you. So you have another collective or group that you founded fairly recently, is that correct?
Supporting Black Flower Farmers
00:44:35
Speaker
In 2021, I think, yeah, so yeah, black flower farmers. Can you tell us about black flower farmers? So like I mentioned earlier, flower farming is already a small group within a, you know,
00:44:52
Speaker
small fish in a large pond and there are very few black flower farmers and so I was looking to be able to connect with and talk to people who may have different concerns or may be facing different issues in the community at large and so same thing like I knew some people already existed I remember when the group first started
00:45:21
Speaker
I had Aisha of Patagonia Flower Farms, who at the time was in Arizona, I believe, and has now moved to Georgia. And she asked if Mima Davis of Urban Buds could join the group. And I was like, yeah, of course. And we added her and she was like,
00:45:38
Speaker
I can't believe this group existed and you didn't guys didn't have me. And I was like, but you're like a celebrity. You're like a big time. Yeah. I'm like, you're like a big time, big deal. Like I didn't think you'd want to like, you know, but like we started that during, um,
00:45:53
Speaker
during COVID. And so like we had a Zoom call and we all talked for an hour. And actually recently in St. Louis at the ASCFG conference last fall, there were 10 of us at the conference, which was the largest number of Black flower farmers that had ever attended. And it was really fantastic to get to meet people in person, especially being in St. Louis. Mima's farm was the host farm, Urban Buds. I stayed on the farm, which was
00:46:23
Speaker
pretty cool a different an urban setup too different to mine but pretty incredible um as you can imagine and it's been incredible to have you know people like her who have court backgrounds who have you know ag backgrounds worked for county extension etc there's anemologists in the group you know and there's
00:46:48
Speaker
Farmers not just across the country, but across the world. There are people in Canada and in the UK and in South Africa. And so it's really neat to be able to have that and to share with each other about grants and opportunities and, you know, ways to learn. I am actually in the process of this year with my, on my spare time.
00:47:12
Speaker
formalizing the group and creating a nonprofit because I get people who reach out to me and I know the other growers do too, other black men and women who are like, this is so cool. This is something I would love to do, but I don't know how to get started or I don't have the funding or whatever it is. And I would like to create opportunities for people to be able to, to join us and to, you know, get where they'd like to be with their own endeavors.
00:47:41
Speaker
I love that. I think it's so awesome that you have created it. Do you call it a group, an organization, a collective? I call it a collective, but we'll see what it kind of, it's just like flowers. Everything kind of changes and grows. And I'm trying not to be too attached to, you know, the naming of things. It may change. I mean, it may change with time as the group grows.
00:48:05
Speaker
We'll see, but it's really cool. I started fundraising last month towards those efforts. I don't know what I'm going to need exactly towards the creation of the nonprofit. I know what I have to do with the state, getting a board, et cetera. We've had some very generous donors.
00:48:26
Speaker
who are helping us to get started in moving towards that. And I would also like to, I'm hoping for 2025 to create a retreat for us before the growing season or during like low season, of course, where more of us can meet, spend time, commune, and relax. And of course we'll talk shop, but I would like for it to just be a time for fellowship.
00:48:56
Speaker
I love that. And you said this is internationally based, correct? Do you have members from around the world? Yes. That's amazing. And about how many members do you currently have?
00:49:08
Speaker
I think we have 35 members. I'm not good at keeping track, but we've even recently, when we were in St. Louis, a set of growers, the Cottons who run Cotton Pick Farm, they went to the Missouri Botanical Garden and met a Black Rosarian and started talking to him and told him about the group and so we've added him. I mean, it's kind of cool and I'm really,
00:49:35
Speaker
excited to see what it may morph into or who it may include. Because yeah, I mean, it's really incredible what a diverse group it is and how much knowledge there is in the group and that we have people who have been doing it for 30 years, but also people who have been doing it for a year, you know, and they can say, hey,
00:49:57
Speaker
If you want a grant for your cooler, this is how you can apply. This is what you need to do for this. It's really helpful to have that, farming can be a very solitary activity. And so it's great to have been able to create a space or to create a space where you don't have to feel so alone and there's somebody who may be able to answer your questions or help you find someone who can.
00:50:27
Speaker
I love that I so often find myself out in the field with just my own thoughts all day long. And that's actually how I started listening to podcasts is because I was spending hours and hours every day by myself outside harvesting or weeding. And so I started listening to podcasts and I went through all the flower podcasts that are out there and I still listen to all of them, but I still had more time in my day. So I thought there's more people we could be talking to.
00:50:53
Speaker
So I love that you have done something similar and created the Black Flower Farmers Collective. For those that are listening, if this is resonating with someone, how could someone join? Is it open for anyone to join?
00:51:06
Speaker
It is open for anyone to join. You can either send me an email, and my email address is on our website, blackflowerfarmers.com, or you can send me a message through Instagram, through Facebook Messenger. The group is across social, whatever is easiest, and we'd be happy to talk to you about it.
00:51:33
Speaker
Awesome. And I will get all those links from you and include them in the show notes too. So anyone listening can refer to the show notes and check it out. And then the Tidewater Flower Collective, that is just local to your area. Is that correct? Yes, that is local to my area. Yeah.
00:51:52
Speaker
Okay, we have covered a whole range of topics today, everything from growing on multiple urban plots to the power of working with the community, to learning about your collectives, both the Tidewater Flower Collective and the Black Flower Farmers Collective.
00:52:14
Speaker
There's one thing that I mentioned at the beginning that we haven't really touched upon that I had talked to about offline, and that is that you have a special interest in growing native perennials. Can we touch just very briefly on that?
Passion for Native Perennials
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah, I do. So when I started my garden at my last home, it was because I'd moved maybe 10 miles, not very far away, but I wasn't seeing some of the birds and insects that I knew I could attract. I knew they were in the area. I knew we were within the range, but I wasn't seeing them. So I created a small pollinator patch.
00:52:57
Speaker
to attract. It was goldfinches. So, you know, I grew Rebecca and I had sunflower. They like yellow flowers, sunflowers. And I added, you know, some.
00:53:09
Speaker
yellow echinacea and that kind of thing because I wanted to see these birds. And so once that happened, it kind of spiraled from there my interest in growing native plants, especially living in a coastal city, living at the time on a peninsula that sometimes the flooding would be so bad that you could kayak around on the streets of the neighborhood.
00:53:34
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Yeah, so I get to see the effects of climate change up close and personal and I wanted to do what I could to try to mitigate those effects while also doing my part to help sustain wildlife and so that's how I ended up
00:53:55
Speaker
learning more about natives, growing native plants, joining the Native Plant Society here, and growing them and using them in arrangements, and using that as a tool to educate the public about these different things, about sustainability, about the importance of native plants, about the effects that
00:54:18
Speaker
sea level rise is having on our area. We're in one of the communities that's going to be hit first by change because Norfolk was built on swamp, as a lot of the surrounding areas were. And so obviously not a great idea. And so we are seeing those effects faster.
00:54:37
Speaker
We have to put measures into place like mitigation, so learning to grow seagrasses, river oats, etc. Very things that are beautiful in arrangements and bouquets. Also, native plants tend to have a longer growing season. They have a longer range. You have those in September, October, and November when things are slowing down.
00:55:02
Speaker
in the garden. Natives are just getting started and not only make great flowers, cut flowers, but also providing homes for all the creatures around us without whom we would not be able to have the flowers or enjoy flowers. So yeah. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. For anyone listening who is not yet growing native perennials and is interested in adding them to their garden, do you have any tips for them?
00:55:31
Speaker
I would suggest that they consult their local native plant society or even their local county extension or master gardeners who often have lots of info on native plants and can probably tell you what would make good cuts. For me, I kind of cross-reference local growing guides with
00:55:55
Speaker
uh like Dr. Armitage like Ellen Armitage's book about cut flower production etc and various I've done various things like that kind of cross-reference and see what is a good cut flower that's a cultivar
00:56:10
Speaker
Are there any related natives, et cetera? And then just experiment too. I mean, you don't have to start with a large space. You can watch things, you know, you can keep things in pots or keep things in the ground for a year and see how they go, make cuts and see how it works for you before deciding to commit. But there are definitely no downsides.
00:56:31
Speaker
That's great advice. I know I wasn't even thinking about it until you mentioned that our local extension office does an annual native plant sale and you can get starts of native plants for very inexpensive. Yeah.
00:56:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great way to start. When I was moving, our local, the master gardeners actually came over to my house to get some natives that I had. Some stuff is very prolific here, like the swamp sunflower and drops lots of seed. And I was like, you guys can take as many as you want. You can take them all. There'll still be a ton.
00:57:07
Speaker
But yeah. That's great advice. Thank you. Well, okay. Now we have really covered a ton today. I think our listeners have so much valuable advice and it's been such an honor to have you on the podcast and to get to chat with you. I have just two last questions for you. The first one is, I know you shared with us how people can learn more about the Black Flower Farmers Collective. Can you tell us how can people find you
00:57:37
Speaker
and Mermaid City Flowers.
00:57:39
Speaker
I am across the internet at mermaidcityflowers, mermaidcityflowers.com, at mermaidcityflowers on Instagram and Facebook. I'm not on TikTok yet, kind of, but maybe we'll see. But people can find me easily there, get information about everything I have upcoming, including my first workshops in my new studio in February. And I'm really excited to feature all American grown flowers
00:58:07
Speaker
flowers that I've grown myself or that I'm going to source locally from nearby. I love that. Thank you. And we'll include links to all of that in our show notes today as well. And so my last question for you before we end today, is there anything that you would like to leave our listeners with today?
00:58:27
Speaker
I guess as we touched on a couple times, why not me? You know, people always tell me, especially at market and that kind of thing, Oh, well, you know, I don't have a green thumb. I'm not really good at growing things.
00:58:40
Speaker
And I say, Hey, look, my plant graveyard, I probably killed more plants than you're ever gonna grow. I just call that compost. We have a name for that. Yeah. And so just don't be afraid to get started. I know there can be a large amount of overwhelming information.
00:58:59
Speaker
But all of us, a large majority of us, have experience with growing things, from being in elementary school and putting a seed in a paper cup and covering it up with a paper towel, which, as we know, is gross. It's still a valid, a great method for getting things to grow certain types of seeds, actually.
00:59:21
Speaker
Don't be afraid to jump in and don't be afraid to find your community and ask questions. You know, asking questions costs you nothing. And there are lots of people who are helpers and want to help and want to see other people do well and succeed. So just reach out.
00:59:41
Speaker
That's great advice. Thank you so much, Dee. It has been truly a pleasure chatting with you today. And I feel like I could talk to you for hours more, but I know you have cresages to make today. So maybe instead I could invite you back to come be a guest again in the future on the podcast. We'd love to have you back. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Thanks so much for joining us today and happy gardening, my friend.
01:00:10
Speaker
Thank you Flower Friends for joining us on another episode of the Backyard Bouquet. I hope you've enjoyed the inspiring stories and valuable gardening insights we've shared today. Whether you're cultivating your own backyard blooms or supporting your local flower farmer, you're contributing to the local flower movement, and we're so happy to have you growing with us.
01:00:31
Speaker
If you'd like to stay connected and continue this blossoming journey with local flowers, don't forget to subscribe to the Backyard Bouquet podcast. I'd be so grateful if you would take a moment to leave us a review of this episode. And finally, please share this episode with your garden friends.
01:00:48
Speaker
Until next time, keep growing, keep blooming, and remember that every bouquet starts right here in the backyard. This is Jennifer Galitzia of the Backyard Bouquet, signing off to head back outside to tend to my garden.