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Episode 79
128 Plays3 months ago
News for the week beginning 9 September 2024 and Question of the Week, "What is a culture fit interview?"
#RNSA #RecruitmentPodcast #RecruitmentNewsAustralia
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Transcript
Bullhorn Engage Conference Overview
00:00:09
Speaker
On Thursday, the 6th of March, 2025, Bullhorn will be hosting Engage, Australia's leading recruitment conference at the Wingstand Royal Randwick Racecourse and Recruitment News Australia will be there.
Ticket Availability and Pricing
00:00:20
Speaker
Discover how to effectively engage talent and learn more about the future of recruitment at Engage.
00:00:26
Speaker
Engage is the perfect place to make new connections and learn from the brightest minds. Super early bird tickets have now sold out. However, early bird tickets for owners and employees of recruitment agencies are now on sale for $249 each or $10 for the price of $9. For more information, visit engage dot.bullhorn dot.com.
00:00:48
Speaker
And this is the news for the week commencing the 9th of September, 2024. I'm Adele Last.
Elmo 2024 Employee Sentiment Index
00:00:54
Speaker
Elmo's latest employee sentiment index for the June 2024 quarter highlights a range of manager employee trust issues with three in five Australian managers surveyed saying they feel the need to check in with their direct port reports more frequently when they're working from home or remotely. Employees too are feeling this lack of trust with 63% of workers surveyed feeling the need to be always contactable when working from home. The survey of 1000 Australian employees also revealed
00:01:23
Speaker
61% of workers feel trusted by their managers when working from the office compared to 51% of employees who feel the same when working from home. Only 21% of employees say they feel completely trusted when working from home. Job security was little change with 49% of those surveyed feeling secure in their jobs down from 50% in the March quarter and 51% in the June quarter last year. Job search activity climbed sharply from the previous quarter with 14% of those surveyed admitting to applying for a new job at a different organisation, up from just 11% in both the March 24 and December 23 quarters. The survey found 36% felt comfortable ignoring a call or email from work outside of their usual hours, but that once the right to disconnect took effect, 41% of employees said they'd feel comfortable ignoring out-of-hours work contact.
00:02:16
Speaker
Workers' priorities when thinking about choosing a new employer remain unchanged from the previous quarter, with remuneration and flexible remote working retaining the number one and two spots respectively.
Economic Growth and Employment Trends
00:02:28
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National accounts data released by the ABS last week show the Australian economy grew by 0.2% in the June quarter and 1% over the past 12 months. Excluding the pandemic, this was the slowest rate of annual economic growth since the early 1990s recession and the sixth consecutive quarter in which GDP per person has contract contracted.
00:02:48
Speaker
Government spending and service exports supported economic growth in the quarter, which offset decreases in household spending and total investment. Government spending increased by 4.7% over the year and is now at a record share of the economy at 27.3% of GDP. Consumers have reduced non-essential spending to manage the pressures of soaring mortgage rates and elevated inflation.
00:03:13
Speaker
discretionary spending fell 1.1% in the June quarter following a lift in the previous three months. Household consumption has fallen in the past three months despite strong population growth. Real retail spending has gone backward for almost two years and business and solvencies have recently hit record highs. Commenting on the GDP data, Deloitte Access Economics at Australia's private sector has effectively ground to a halt with only government spending keeping economic growth in positive territory.
00:03:42
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Despite the economy's troubles, the consensus you from economists is the soft result was unlikely to lead to an interest rate reduction in the near future.
Hayes Partnership with Lion
00:03:52
Speaker
Hayes ANZ has announced a three-year contract with Lion, a Japanese-owned company best known as the home of some of Australia's most prominent beer brands, such as Han, Tui's, Forex, James Squire, James Bogues, Furfies, Stone and Wood and Little Creatures.
00:04:10
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Under the three-year agreement, Hayes will manage the sourcing, engagement and administration of Lion's contract and temporary staffing requirements across Australia and New Zealand. Shane Little, MD, Enterprise Solutions for Hayes, APAC added, will be improving Lion's access to the talent it needs to power its business performance and growth. Our teams look forward to working together over the next three years. The contract started in July this year.
00:04:36
Speaker
Recent jobs and skills Australia data show employment growth for 12 months to May 2024 varied widely across industries. The largest increase in total employment occurred in healthcare and social assistance up by 116,700 followed by education and training up by 46,800 jobs and then construction up by 45,900. The largest decreases in employment occurred in financial and insurance services down by 21,500 then retail trade down by 12,500 and mining down by 1,500 jobs. Over the 12 months to May 2024, the unemployment rate decreased in South Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory, while remaining unchanged in WA. New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland and the ACT all recorded rises in their unemployment rate.
00:05:28
Speaker
Over the year to May 2024, vacancies declined for all occupation groups but remained high compared to pre-pandemic levels, with vacancies for labourers recording the largest decline. Vacancies fell in all states and territories over the 12-month period, decreasing the most in Victoria, followed by New South Wales and the ACT.
CFMEU Controversy and Legal Issues
00:05:49
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The senior CFMEU organiser has been charged over alleged threats to kill an Indigenous labour hire owner.
00:05:57
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Victoria Police arrested CFMEU Indigenous Organiser Joel Shackleton last Thursday and charged him with making threats to inflict serious injury and threats to kill which carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison. It is the first time criminal charges have been laid since the joint investigation by the AFR, the Age and the Sydney Morning Herald revealed allegations of violent threats, intimidation and biking and underworld infiltration of the CFMEU.
00:06:25
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The investigation exposed a video of Mr Shackleton allegedly threatening to bash two owners of a small indigenous labour hire firm, Marda Dandy, which was aligned with the rival Australian Workers Union. He was recorded threatening one of the owners saying, I'll effing take your soul and rip your effing head off. The second company owner was also called an effing dog and germ and threatened with a severe bashing. The threats were made at a big build site run by civil contractor CPB in 2022.
00:06:55
Speaker
Mr Shackleton was released on bail and is scheduled to appear before the Melbourne Magistrates Court on November 22nd. A worker in the United States has died at her desk in a corporate office with initial reports indicating she passed away four days earlier. Local police confirmed 60-year-old Denise Prudhome scanned in to work at the Wells Fargo corporate office in Tempe, Arizona at 7am on Friday 16 August and on Tuesday 20 August building security called authorities after finding an unresponsive worker. A Wells Fargo employee said a colleague found Prudhome dead at her desk in a cubicle while walking around the building.
00:07:31
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Pride Homes cubicle was reportedly on the third floor and away from the main aisle. The same employee said several people smelled a foul odour but passed it off as faulty plumbing. Police said the initial investigation did not show any signs of foul play. A Wells Fargo spokesperson said they were reviewing our internal procedures after this event.
Cultural Resignation Challenges in Japan
00:07:55
Speaker
Mon Murray, a resignation agency that helps timid employees leave their intimidating bosses is an example of how Japanese workers are increasingly seeking external help to manage the stress of resigning from their job. The firm launched in 2022 and in the past year alone, they received more than 11,000 inquiries from harried and intimidated Japanese workers. For 22,000 yen, about 230 Australian dollars, the company helps employees tender their resignations, negotiate with their employer,
00:08:26
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and provide recommendations for lawyers if legal disputes arise. Some people come to us after having their resignation letter ripped three times and employers not letting them quit even when they kneel down to the ground to bow, said Shiori Kawamata, Operations Manager of Mamori, in another illustration of the differential workplace culture embedded in Japan. Some workers complain that bosses harass them if they try to resign, she said, including stopping by their apartments to ring their doorbell repeatedly refusing to leave. Tokyo-based human resources professor Horishi Ono said the situation had become so pressing that the government had begun publishing a list of unethical employers to hamper their ability to hire and warn job seekers of the changes of working for them. Labor bureaus across the country have blacklisted more than 370 companies since the list was published in 2017.
Unlicensed Labor Hire Legal Action
00:09:20
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The Labour Higher Authority in Victoria has launched legal action against a Queensland-based business alleging it advertised Labour Higher services in Victoria while unlicensed. LHA alleges that Globally Talent Group published several advertisements on Facebook and on its website earlier this year, representing that it can provide workers to pick grapes in Mildura, as well as supply meat processing workers to businesses in Stawell, Horsham and the Grampians.
00:09:46
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LHA alleges that GTG did not hold a labour high licence when the advertisements were published, and its director, Sheng Yao Ho, was knowingly concerned in or party to the contravention. Labour High Licensing Commissioner, Steve Duggaval, said in a press release, labour high workers in horticultural and meat processing sectors have historically been subject to significant exploitation. So any company that advertises to provide these workers should expect scrutiny from our investigators.
00:10:17
Speaker
And that's the news for the week beginning the 9th of September, 2024. I'm Ross Clennett.
Conducting Culture Fit Interviews
00:10:34
Speaker
Question of the week this week is, what is a culture fit interview? Tell me, Ross, what is a culture fit interview? This is a new term for me. Well, a culture fit interview, firstly, what it isn't. So culture fit interview isn't going out for a drink or having a cup of coffee because really what that is about is, do I like you? That's really what that's about. That's a common thing people are doing now though, right? I think it's been prevalent for a long time and there's nothing wrong with that except
00:11:14
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You've just got to be clear that what you're assessing is whether you like them or not. Because liking someone, although nice, it's not an indicator of competency. It's not necessarily an indicator of culture fit. Like you can enjoy going out for someone with someone for for a drink. Is that really an indicator of whether they're going to fit into a work culture? I don't know. So what's a better way then to do this?
00:11:44
Speaker
Um, well, ask questions in an interview, like have a culture fit interview or have a component of an interview that is the culture fit component. Okay. So broadly speaking, you're saying ask questions to make, to, to, um, assess culture fit, but what kind of questions are we talking about here? Yep. Okay. So you've got broad questions.
00:12:14
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So let me give you an example of a broad question around culture fit. So you you'd say, so I'd interview you and say, Adele, in your current organization, in your current job,
00:12:28
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ah Where do you feel broadly culturally aligned? What is it that's happening in the organization or that you're experiencing where you feel culturally aligned? And what might be happening or you're experiencing where you feel misaligned? ah So what I'm listening for is where do you feel comfortable? Where do you feel uncomfortable? That'll give me some sense of your values. And then the ah The more specific part is to dig down into specific competencies or behaviours associated with culture. And that's where most cultural interviews aren't good enough because there's not a specific definition of what the culture is. In other words, what are the specific behaviours that are acknowledged, appreciated and rewarded in an organisation?
00:13:28
Speaker
Okay, and have you got an example of this, a case study you can share? Actually, I have. And it's from Jeff Morgan and Andrew Banks in their book, Flourish and Prosper. Have you read Flourish and Prosper, Adele?
00:13:41
Speaker
Not surprising, it's been out of print um for a long time. It was originally published in 2005. And I think you can get it on Kindle, um but it is definitely a worthwhile read. So let me read to you what Jeff and Andrew say from chapter five, harnessing the power of your people. And the subheading in that chapter is called Recruiting for Success. And they're talking about recruiting their own people. ah They said,
00:14:09
Speaker
Recruiting against competencies and values that were fundamental to our culture was critical. We'd asked particular questions about teamwork and conflict, for example, because we were interested in their approach to problems. We placed more emphasis on how someone thought and how they went about doing things than on experience and qualifications. It was their attributes more than their skills and knowledge that we were after.
00:14:35
Speaker
because we'd often get candidates who had the knowledge but no gas in the tank. So we're trying to find out what sort of person they were, how they liked to be managed, how we could get the best out of that person. Frankly, we look for happy, bright people who had good indicators and who were optimistic.
00:14:53
Speaker
We didn't want any chronically negative people near our organization because negative thinking is contagious. Be careful who you let near your mind. So from that, what do you hear in terms of the Morgan and Banks culture Adele? Yeah, there's elements around teamwork and and dealing with conflict in there, problem solving and obviously that that end one around optimism.
00:15:17
Speaker
Yep, exactly. So that's that's what I'd say. ah Those were critical components of the Morgan & Banks culture. Therefore, when Morgan & Banks were assessing someone to join them as a recruiter, they were assessing them in a cultural fit interview or in the culture fit component of an interview against those four competencies. But what's an example of a question that you can ask that would assess one of those competencies?
00:15:47
Speaker
Okay. So if we look at say optimism, okay, someone smiling and being friendly is actually not necessarily good indicator of whether someone's optimistic. So you've got to be careful about the things you may misinterpret as optimism. So here's an example of a question that you might ask.
00:16:10
Speaker
Tell me about a specific piece of challenging or negative feedback you received about your attitude or your performance at work. How did you respond to that feedback? What did you do to remain positive? Now, what you notice about that question, in fact, why don't I ask you, what do you notice about the wording of that question and what I'm asking the person to focus on? Well, it's very specific, first of all. You're giving a really specific requirement or request there around the the situation, which I really like. And you're um asking them to draw on a previous experience, but you're asking them to explain how they dealt with it and their thinking as well. Are they thinking behind it?
00:16:57
Speaker
You're correct. There's something else about the way I frame that question up. What, what type of thing did I ask the person, my hypothetical um interviewee to tell me about? You've stumped me. And I asked them to tell me about a negative. Ah, right. Okay. Yep. Now this is really important yeah because when you ask someone to talk about a negative,
00:17:27
Speaker
This is where you test how optimistic or negative people are. Because when you ask people to talk about a negative, something happening to them, what do you think pessimists do to apportion responsibility around that negative thing?
00:17:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's never their fault, right? That's right. Exactly. And that's exactly why it's important to ask a question in the negative, because you draw out the pessimist who will blame their boss, their colleagues, ah the company culture, the economy, whatever it might be, whereas an optimist is much more likely to focus on what they Did or didn't do in that situation more importantly about what they learned and about how they're looking to apply that learning to the future so that's why it's critical to ask so-called negative questions in an interview because you're looking to provoke.
00:18:29
Speaker
the person to see how they respond. And negative people or pessimists will default to blaming. And that's why those sorts of questions are really important and not just looking at someone's facade of are they smiling or are they happy to make a judgment about optimism. And it also in some ways circumvents candidates preparing for the interview or preparing examples for an interview that are usually always um optimistic. you know They always give you the good example. So by taking it to the negative in some ways, you are getting them to think on the spot. You're saying, tell me about actually a time it didn't work and that's not what they're prepared for. They're prepared always for the time that it worked out beautifully. So I like that negative element. I think that's a really clever way to approach um getting a real answer from somebody.
00:19:20
Speaker
and and Here's the other really important thing about a so-called negative question is that you're not looking to judge the actual thing, you know the negative thing. What you're looking to judge is their reaction to it. and That's the the beauty of a question like that because it's kind of disguised that the candidate doesn't really know what you're looking for. So hopefully they're going to answer honestly. So you do get an honest response. And to your point, you're not going to get a and an over-prepared answer where they're looking to you know kind of show off or put their best foot forward. Nothing wrong with that. But an interview is trying to get beneath the facade.
00:20:05
Speaker
And most interviewers don't like to ask so-called negative questions because they don't want to make the candidate uncomfortable. But actually, they're a really important part of bringing out elements of a person's character, which are critical to understand if you're conducting an effective culture fit interview. So what I'm hearing from all of this discussion, Russ, is around it's really important to identify those um competencies that are core to the culture of the organisation, you need to know what they are. you You do need to formulate good quality questions and drill down on those questions. Don't be afraid to take a question from a negative example, a negative side and ask it that way. But it sounds like it's a lot more detailed in terms of matching people up to a culture fit than people are probably doing or have done. So is this a separate interview on it in itself? It can be.
00:21:02
Speaker
ah It depends upon the seniority of the role and it depends upon how many decision makers there might be. um In most um vacancies, it's probably overkill to have a separate cultural interview. I certainly think that if you just focus on the two or three most critical competencies or attributes that align to the culture, then probably 20 minutes is sufficient Certainly in the first interview to get a pretty good sense of that person. And then if they're coming back for a second interview, you can drill down further. And would you agree that I would believe that hiring manager, the direct manager needs to be involved in this? Because if HR or somebody else is just doing the cultural fit interview, there's a risk of matching to a spouse versus real um cultural elements. Is it important the hiring managers involved?
00:21:59
Speaker
I believe so. Yes, I would um generally recommend that the hiring manager be in this interview, if not running this interview.