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S1.E2.5 - John Rockwell on Self-Awareness, Venture Capital, and The Education of Hockey
62 Plays10 months ago
From the ice rinks of Michigan Tech to managing over $800 million in capital, John shares what it means to pursue excellence with intention and the importance of self-awareness.
This episode features an interview with John Rockwell — a former professional hockey player and current venture capitalist.
We discuss the importance of self-awareness, excellence, and glory. We also explore how hockey and Michigan Tech shaped John’s personal development.
John Rockwell is the founder of a venture capital and private equity firm that manages $800 million in capital. He has invested in more than 30 privately held companies focused on commercializing technology-based innovations. John has served on the boards of over 25 companies. He is also an alumnus of Michigan Tech, where he played hockey and studied chemical engineering before graduating with a degree in business administration.
He is currently the CEO and co-founder of Revex Technologies, which is positioned to become a leader in the sustainable processing and production of nickel and other critical minerals. The company aims to support global net-zero carbon energy goals. These minerals are essential for lithium batteries, electricity grids, and the defense and space industries.
https://www.santofi.com/
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Transcript
Foundations of Success through Hockey
00:00:00
Speaker
things that make you successful in life is can you work with other people, can you get the most out of other people, can you stay disciplined, can you deal with disappointment and failure, and can you deal with success.
00:00:16
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All of that stuff in hockey at Michigan Tech was required on the on the team to be successful.
00:00:30
Speaker
What's up everyone, welcome to the podcast. This episode 2.5 of season 1. This episode is a little different as it is an interview with former professional hockey player and venture capitalist John Rockwell.
00:00:42
Speaker
Not only do we talk about the themes and key ideas from the Know Thyself collection such as Arate, Excellence, and Kleos, Glory, but also there is some great wisdom and advice for anyone seeking to improve themselves.
From Hockey to Venture Capital
00:00:56
Speaker
John Rockwell has founded a venture capital and private equity firm that manages $800 million in capital. He has invested in more than 30 privately held companies, commercializing technology-based innovations.
00:01:07
Speaker
John has served on the boards of more than 25 companies. He is also an alumni at Michigan Tech, where he played hockey and studied chemical engineering before graduating in business administration.
00:01:18
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He is currently the CEO and co-founder of RevX Technologies, which will be the leader in sustainable processing and production of nickel and other critical minerals, which will aim to achieve net zero carbon energy goals.
00:01:29
Speaker
These minerals are used in lithium batteries, electricity grids, and defense slash space industries. Apologies for the difference in audio between John and I and the recording. My audio from the in-person recording was unusable.
00:01:41
Speaker
hope you enjoy. Who are you?
Innovation and Sustainability Leadership
00:01:44
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I'm the head or the father of the Rockwell family. That's probably my number one thing is, know, father in that family.
00:01:54
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And then I also... like to build and develop things. In the business world, it's I like to take ideas and good technology that hasn't figured out how to get a real customer value proposition, but make something of value and then bring something into the world that hasn't been done before.
00:02:16
Speaker
Second thing that I've been doing lately is going up to Michigan Tech with half a dozen other CEOs and venture capitalists from the Bay Area that are Michigan Tech alums and we've been promoting entrepreneurship and innovation and we've helped get a few companies started up there and our goal is to have three technology companies funded and employing over 50 engineers each because then we'll probably have with that at least 200
00:02:48
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engineering jobs and then you're able to attract more engineers and so you can start to build a a technology center. I like to spend my time on family stuff and then building businesses my friends.
00:03:04
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Do you believe self-awareness is important? If so, why?
The Role of Self-Awareness in Success
00:03:08
Speaker
if you know who you are you have a much better chance of being really successful at whatever you're going to do because if you aware if you kind of know yourself you know your strengths and your weaknesses and you look at yourself in situations that you know might be unpleasant because especially you know like with what i'm doing trying to start stuff it's really really hard so a lot of times it's you know, uncomfortable and you're facing failure a lot of times.
00:03:37
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But if you really like what you're doing, it's just part of the journey. Yeah, so I think it's really important. I think there's a lot of people that they don't know what makes them happy or fulfilled. What were some moments in your life where you developed self-awareness or became more self-aware of who you are?
Overcoming Disadvantages and Personal Growth
00:03:56
Speaker
i think a lot of it was... came with how I got trained to be successful at what I was doing so at at the time when I was younger was playing hockey and I started out way behind everyone else so I had to play goalie and there weren't any goalie coaches so I wanted to be as good as I could be but there wasn't really a culture to tell me what to do so I had to look at myself and you know decide you know, do i really want to do this?
00:04:28
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Why do i want to do it? What am i giving up for not doing it, you know, by doing it? and And then I had to figure out how to get better.
00:04:39
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And I started out way behind everyone, so I ended up just not focusing on how good they were and how bad I was, but just focused on getting better every day, focused on what i needed to do to get better.
00:04:52
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And then I've just taken that same attitude for my family, for my businesses, anything I do. they try and figure out what I want to do, and then I try and just figure out, just get up every day and do something that advances that.
00:05:10
Speaker
I think if you don't know that, if you're not aware aware of yourself, then it gets hard to focus your efforts on what is going to make you feel fulfilled.
00:05:22
Speaker
You mentioned you're an alumni of Michigan Tech. Can you tell me about the importance of playing hockey there while also going to school and how it's helped you your current endeavors as well as your development as a person?
00:05:34
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i think that you can learn a lot of stuff from books. like I could learn a lot of my classes. like I could learn all the math and engineering. I didn't even need to have a teacher to do that.
00:05:46
Speaker
ah but the thing thats things that make you successful in life is... Can you work with other people? Can you get the most out of other people? Can you stay disciplined? Can you deal with disappointment and failure?
00:06:02
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And can you deal with success? And a all of that stuff in hockey at Michigan Tech. was required on the on the team to be successful.
00:06:17
Speaker
So what I told the students was that when they're at Tech, they're they're all very smart, very very, very high academic standards, but that the things that they needed to succeed in life were, you know, how to work on, just what I said, how to work on teams, how to, you know, deal with disappointment, how to communicate.
00:06:41
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And so they should i get themselves out of their comfort zones, you know, being vice president of the marketing club or playing on your broomball team at this at the fraternity,
00:06:54
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and doing other things besides just going to school. I acquired all the yeah character and the traits and the skills at Michigan Tech to succeed in my family and my career and my community.
00:07:11
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And I learned something in the classroom. And I told them literally got 95% of what I got out of Michigan Tech was playing from playing on the hockey team.
00:07:22
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I mean, I could have went there and done nothing academically and I'd be probably in the same place I am right now. But the academic helped me do it easier and be more successful.
00:07:33
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The hockey team was great, but there's a lot of people when I got into the business world, they think I'm an engineer, which when you're financing tech technology startups, the engineers respect engineers. They don't really respect a lot of the business guys.
00:07:49
Speaker
But they all thought I was an engineer based on the fact that I'd run these engineering companies. and I really thought was a big advantage going to school in an area where 90% of the students were engineers. We're used to how they how they approach things and how they dealt with things.
00:08:10
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So like one of the things that I find is that a lot of the something for me that's like uncertain I don't have any problem making a decision on it. But there's a lot of people who have an engineering mindset that will continue to get, want to get more and more information. they'll just have a hard time making that. And everything's black and white.
00:08:33
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And, know, sometimes in the real world, a lot of things aren't black and white. But it helps you deal with them where I think if I hadn't met them, I probably would have learned it in the business world, but I probably would not have been as quite...
00:08:47
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as sympathetic and gotten some of the engineers to go along with stuff that was, you know, because I dealt with them, I knew they were having a hard time because I was pushing them out of their comfort area, making decisions and going forward on stuff.
00:09:02
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And then another thing is that when you're dealing with a lot of smart people, a there's some people that they won't journey out of the comfort area because they've been used to being right all the time and they just don't like being wrong.
00:09:17
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What does an education mean to you, and how should one go about being educated?
Beyond Academics: The Broader Scope of Education
00:09:22
Speaker
Even now, like, I spend a lot of time learning stuff. So I think education is acquiring knowledge. But it's also learning how to solve problems, learning how to communicate, learning how to convey.
00:09:40
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yeah it's It's learning how to work with people to put together a team to get things done.
00:09:47
Speaker
So I think, and even get back to the basics, it's just how do you how do you function in society? How do you fit into society? So we were talking the other day about the Japanese in school, the first three years, they don't they don't have grades, and they're basically teaching the kids how they should act in the Japanese society.
00:10:07
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So that's part of it. To me, education is a lot learning facts and learning math and learning, you know, engineering.
00:10:19
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It's learning how to, you know, succeed in society.
00:10:26
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What does succeeding in society mean to you? ah For me, it's it's being able to accomplish what you want in society and people and communicate with them and, you know, function with them.
00:10:44
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And that ends up coming down into a couple areas. it It could be in your job. It's also just in your family. How do you how do you get the skills to be able to raise your children so that they're productive, happy members of society?
00:11:06
Speaker
Which were the most important life lessons you learned as it relates to your character from your time at Michigan Tech? ah Two big things I had, there's more than that, the big things are I had to make decisions on self-awareness.
00:11:22
Speaker
I saw myself in high school going from, you know, the backup goalie on the worst team on our high school to being, you know, one of the better players. When I got to be a senior, I was, you know, probably in the top five or ten goalies in the in the state, but there might be one goalie every couple years to go play in the Western Collegiate Hockey Association.
00:11:52
Speaker
But I played with all those guys in the summertime, and I could play with them. and I didn't get a ah chance to go to school at one of the Division I schools when I got right out of high school, but there was a junior league that all the kids go to all the time now. But junior league, they go play a couple years and then go to college.
00:12:17
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And I had a academic scholarship, a scholarship from Oxford College that paid for all my academics. And then I got a... yeah a grant from the from the government because my dad had been unemployed.
00:12:34
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So I basically had a full ride to go to school at a school called Augsburg that was the they're like the national champion division three national champion. So a good place to play.
00:12:45
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And in the middle of the summer I was playing and we played a team called the St. Paul Vulcans. And July 3rd it was Monday. and it was a monday and Most of our team was up in Northern Minnesota.
00:13:02
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enjoying the 4th of July holiday. So we only had eight guys show up and they had their full 20 guys because the coach made it mandatory. And we ended up by beating them two to one and I had 78 saves.
00:13:18
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And the coach afterwards who had cut me a couple months earlier said, what are you doing this fall? And this season, i said I was going to Augsburg.
00:13:29
Speaker
And i he said, is that what you want to do? And I said, no, I'm really trying to get into the Midwest League. But, you know, but every team's cut me so far. But that's really what I want to do because I think I can play in the WCHA.
00:13:43
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And he said, well, our goalie's on the U.S. s Junior National Team. And he doesn't like to practice. And we need a practice goalie. And I can't promise you that you'll play, but you can come practice with us.
00:13:55
Speaker
And so i told him, okay, I'm in. And I went and i told my mom that I was not gonna go to school. She wasn't happy with that. But the lesson I learned there was, and I had enough of it, and you know I think part of this was my dad. My dad said you can basically told us we could do anything.
00:14:14
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And I looked and i said, that's what I want to do. what's What's the downside? I don't have a scholarship. I'll figure it out. yeah If I have to work extra next year because I failed at it, I'll just figure it out.
00:14:26
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So I went on that team and
00:14:31
Speaker
I played 20 minutes out of our first 40 games. We had our first 43 games and the next 43 games I played 40 games. But I got my chance to play and I played really well.
00:14:43
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And then I did that and Our team ended up winning our league chaant playoff championship and we won the US Junior National Championship. We were like fourth place out of six teams when I started.
00:14:58
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So I got a pretty decent reputation. And then so I got asked to go play on a tryout for the US Junior National Team. So I did that and made that team.
00:15:10
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And the next year I ended up getting a scholarship to Michigan Tech. So the whole lesson there was that I made the assessment It was like, I i like playing hockey.
00:15:22
Speaker
It's fun. I love the competitiveness. i loved the how you had to work to get better. And I really loved the fact that i was just catching all these guys who were so much better than me. It's just every month I was catching another one of them.
00:15:36
Speaker
and and then I was, you know, when I do stuff I don't focus on the end, I focus on what do I have to do to be, to execute really well.
00:15:47
Speaker
So I wouldn't think about, you know, we're going to win the national championship, all I thought about in in those games, in the next play I had to make. So you learn that, and that's really carried over into everything I do in life.
00:16:02
Speaker
But the, yeah So out of that, one is not because I knew who I was, i knew I wanted to try time play in the WCHA. And there were are only three...
00:16:15
Speaker
players from the United States and NHL at that time. So playing professional hockey was like not even a, that was not even a thought. but I, and there were only four players that went out of high school right to the WCHA, which is a league I wanted to go to.
00:16:34
Speaker
There were probably 20 that went out east, but there are only four that went to the WCHA.
00:16:41
Speaker
But that was my goal. That was my big goal. And I just, you know, when I got the chance, I took the chance. And, you know, you have to be pretty mentally tough because when you go and you don't play for 40 games, you're sitting on the bench and, you know, you're behind a goalie who's...
00:17:02
Speaker
who played for a coach that came in and helped us part-time. He played for his high school team the year before and aren't the goalies on the US Junior National Team. You don't know if you're going chance or not, but all you can do is just try and get better every day. and Taking the risk aye was one lesson there.
00:17:22
Speaker
Second one was I made a pretty good self-assessment of me. aye and I knew what I wanted to do and I i knew i I would have the energy and the discipline to do what it took to try to be my best.
00:17:39
Speaker
But then you get there and then you have to deal with all the disappointments. And then you also have to deal with the successes. Like I started playing and I played like really, really, really good and I had, you right when I started and I started having lots of people telling me how good I was and you've got to say that doesn't really matter. Keep getting better.
00:18:05
Speaker
all that just just kind of, that's kind of what I learned in hockey and at Michigan Tech. And hockey also learn all, you learn a lot about how to deal with in teams right because uh i would say most of the teams that i played on didn't matter like high school old junior college pro even even my senior teams it seemed like there's you know if you had 25 guys on the team it seemed like you had know there's five or seven that were just dicks total assholes you just never yeah
00:18:46
Speaker
Never wanted to hang around with them, but you know, I'd laugh because there'd be some guy you can't stand and then you'd be out on the rink and you'd be getting in a fight because of them. So,
00:18:59
Speaker
but that was kind of like that. So it's like maybe a third of the guys are like that. And a third of the guys are very good people, but they're not what I'll call guys that are ever going to be super successful.
00:19:12
Speaker
You know, they' they got good morals and good values, but maybe not a good work ethic, or maybe just not interested in you not interested in doing anything.
00:19:25
Speaker
You know maybe they'll work at hockey, but they're not goingnna work at anything else. And about a third of the guys are guys that you hope your daughter marries them. But you get in an environment which you gotta to deal with all three of them.
00:19:36
Speaker
So that helps me when you get in the business world, because like right now I'm pretty spoiled because i essentially I'm executive chairman, you know sometimes ceo of a couple companies, but it's...
00:19:48
Speaker
you know more like executive chairman. I spend all my time on strategy. i hire guys that are really good. and so I'm managing the high performers that, you know, everyone's got their flaws, but there's no fatal flaws in them.
00:20:04
Speaker
Whereas when I was younger, when I went into companies that were failing, there were fatal flaws in them. That's why they were failing. And so you have to deal with that which I'm, you know, I'm pretty empathetic. I'm not I try not to be, I can be very tough, but I try not to be. right like i I try to make things work things out. you know The last thing I want to do is go into company and yeah be in it for a month and go, okay, these five guys aren't going to work out and have to fire them.
00:20:40
Speaker
I do that when I have to do it, but I'd much rather say, well, these guys five guys don't work out. Can we, is someone gonna work out in different position? Is there something else that we could use them at?
00:20:53
Speaker
And I tried to do that. And, you know, in a lot of cases I was successful in that because we'd come in, know, come in and then we'd figure out how to take this company that was losing money and get it back to us making money pretty quick.
00:21:09
Speaker
and And once you start making money, then, you know, I could spend a little, you know I could, ah afford to take ah chance and risk $30,000 $40,000 over the next couple months to see if the guy can perform at something that I think he might.
00:21:26
Speaker
What does excellence mean to you?
Defining Excellence and Personal Improvement
00:21:28
Speaker
Sometimes, like in business, excellence is doing something not so good and focusing your efforts on doing something really good.
00:21:39
Speaker
Or sometimes excellent is because you go on a path where good enough meets the customer's needs. And then that allows you to build the business and provide more utility and value to people.
00:21:57
Speaker
So if you look at it, like a so a lot of software companies, they'll send stuff out. It's total crap. if they did that when they If they did that when they were doing a nuclear reactor, those guys would all be fired ah because there'd be a big explosion.
00:22:10
Speaker
So you understand? So that's why said, when you say, what's excellence? Because excellence may not be doing things perfectly. It may be doing things optimally. So...
00:22:22
Speaker
Is it important? And if so, why? I think because if everyone did everything excellent, we'd have a much better world. And for me, it's i and if I don't i like I'll do things and if I'm not really passionate about it, i don't care if I do it excellent or not.
00:22:43
Speaker
But if I'm passionate about it, I want to do it excellent. So that's why I think it's important because if you get people are passionate about it and they're doing they're pursuing excellence, then you're going to end up with a much better world.
00:22:59
Speaker
And then from a personal perspective, i if I'm going to do something, i like to know and like to do it well.
00:23:10
Speaker
But i don't need when I was younger, I needed to do things perfectly. right And I would spend a lot of time on stuff that actually doesn't matter. So I don't know if I've totally gotten rid of that.
00:23:26
Speaker
ah still It's still hard to just let something go half-assed. But sometimes that's the best thing to do. what about setting us up so so just so So it's good for the world. And then the other thing is I think it's good for you. Like everyone takes pride.
00:23:42
Speaker
Like I measure myself against my ahgainst my standards, not against what other people think. So that's also excellent. So like if I can play hockey, I want to be an excellent standard. I'll put that time and effort into it.
00:23:58
Speaker
If, you know, in business, it's a little bit different because... At the stage I'm at, I'm merely helping most of the time and I'm spread too thin, so there's no way I can drive excellence in everything that I'm doing.
00:24:12
Speaker
So, if ah you know in even the stuff I'm doing, there's a lot of times that I have to just go, Okay, I could spend another four hours today on this and just have like a result that's at 99.9%.
00:24:28
Speaker
But I've got five other things that I've got to do today. And if I do this, I'll be at 95%. And 95% is good enough. I want to be great. If spend time on stuff, I would be great at it.
00:24:39
Speaker
What does greatness mean? So greatness just means you're executing better than, you or maybe it's not better, if you're executing the top tenth of a percent. It's all about execution. So I'll give you an example. When I was coaching, I told the guys that we're going to play the same way. I want you playing the same way at the beginning of the game, middle of the game, end of the game for three goals ahead, three goals behind, 10 goals ahead, 10 goals behind.
00:25:09
Speaker
You do what you're supposed to do on the ice. So yes there's if we're ahead nothing and there's a minute left in the game and a guy decides that he wants to score a goal so he's going to cheat and take off and they end up by yeah we end up not getting the puck out of the zone, I don't care if we won 10-0.
00:25:32
Speaker
I'm not happy. right I'm not a jerk about it. but So when I played, it was the same thing. It didn't matter if were way ahead, way behind. execute how you're supposed to. So to me, ultimate greatness is executing flawlessly, but greatness is executing, you know, being focused on it and executing and, you know, doing it 99%, 99 plus percent of the time.
00:25:56
Speaker
Is glory or one's reputation important? If so, why? I think recognition can be a huge motivator. Um, You know, I think people do, you know, people get motivated by money, you know, or the pursuit of money. They want money.
00:26:18
Speaker
And then they want fame, which is recognition, and they want power. And they're all kind of interrelated, like money, gets you power.
00:26:29
Speaker
Power can get you money. Power can make you famous. Famous, know, probably not as much, but famous can provide you power. If you're famous, you can have influence.
00:26:42
Speaker
So, um...
00:26:47
Speaker
So, recognition, I think, can be a driving force. For me, I like to be recognized. When I was younger, I think I liked it more. But what drove me was i doing really good. So, like, when I played hockey, I like, you know, it was nice to be recognized, you know, especially where I played. was a pretty big deal being a hockey player.
00:27:12
Speaker
And I like that. But ultimately what gave me the most satisfaction was going out and trying to get better every day. And where I learned that is when I got done playing pro hockey, I wasn't going to play anymore because I'm no longer trying to be the best. And that was what was driving me all the time was to get better and better and better and then perform in, you know, critical. I also like performing in critical situations.
00:27:37
Speaker
I think that's a huge challenge. And it's a real high when you do it because, know, yeah you'll be nervous and if you succeed and it's so hard to succeed that it's just a big thrill but um
00:27:54
Speaker
When I got done, I wasn't going to play anymore, and I i didn't didn't play. And then some my friends that had played pro hockey and that I grew up with or you know played high school and junior in college with, they had a team, and they asked me to play, and I started playing. And i had just as much fun playing on that team, trying to get less worse every year.
00:28:14
Speaker
So it gets right back to just focus you focusing on stuff that you think is meaningful and and that you want to get better at.
00:28:26
Speaker
This is a Sandify production. Written, narrated, and produced by Esteban Galvez. If you liked this episode, please share it. Follow and subscribe to our newsletter on our website. You can also view and purchase our other collection pieces at our website.