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Inspire Club EP #11 - Jane Roques-Shaw
11 Plays4 years ago
In this episode we talk with Jane Roques-Shaw, Global Executive Director, People Growth and Experience at WarnerMedia.
With extensive knowledge and experience in HR, communications and culture, Jane works to improve the employee experience. In her role at WarnerMedia, Jane is responsible for creating and curating the opportunities and environment for our employees to learn and develop.
In her chat with Ruth, Jane discusses how to be in service of employees, why its important to let your guard down and say yes to everything as well as why she loves to travel in order to wind down.
We hope you enjoy it.
HR departments are responsible for developing tasks that have an impact in many areas of the organization, in order to be able to carry out these developments professionals need to be constantly informed about the latest practices with the right Human Resources training.
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Transcript
Introduction to Inspire Club Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello. Hi, everyone, and welcome to our podcast. And this is the next episode in Inspire Club. I am your host, Ruth Gants, and I share GTs alongside my colleague Matt Manners in hosting the podcast. We're both from inspiring workplaces, and we, this is one of the most favourite parts of my job, actually, is interviewing incredible people from all over the world and just getting to learn a bit more about them.
00:00:26
Speaker
For those of you that don't know who I am, I am the Managing Director of the Inspiring Workplaces Academy which is the professional and learning development arm of the business. I seem to come with a disclaimer during these pandemic times. Right now I'm in my home which is in Sussex and south of England and there's a lot of digging work going on outside my house because there is an extension being built
00:00:50
Speaker
in the house next door to me. I also have three little boys all under the age of four who are under under a responsible adult but they're not with me but if you do hear any children in the background there's my disclaimer. I'm really really excited about this episode of Inspire Club today because the guest we've got is just an awesome human and I just love talking to her.
Sharing Stories of Inspiration
00:01:16
Speaker
Before I start, much like the 1990s classic film Fight Club, we do have one rule and our one rule of Inspire Club is that each of our guests must share a story of one person that has inspired them along the way.
00:01:32
Speaker
We want to help by putting more positivity out into the world and thanking others, thanking someone that maybe had no idea the impact that they've had on you or on others. It could be a past colleague, but also it can be anyone from outside of the world of work.
00:01:47
Speaker
So let me introduce you to our guest for today.
Featuring Jane Rockshaw: Employee Engagement Expert
00:01:52
Speaker
So our amazing guest is an incredible woman and that's really fitting given this we're seeing International Women's Day this week, who goes by the name of Jane Rockshaw. Jane, if anyone hasn't had the pleasure of meeting or talking to her before, has a phenomenal background in employee engagement, communications and HR.
00:02:16
Speaker
She's worked for Endemol, for HMV, NBC Universal and also for Visa and is now in a very global role leading a global team. She is the Global Executive Director of People, Growth and Experience and she's based at Warner Media and for those of you
00:02:35
Speaker
that may have heard or may not have heard of WarnerMedia. That includes brands such as HBO, Warner Brothers, and CNN, for example. So Jane, you've got an amazing role, a real global role. I'm sure not much travel has been going on a lot for you in this global role over the last year. But welcome, Jane, you're here, right? I've been talking for so long, I don't even know you're here. You're here, right? I am still here, yes. Enjoy hearing you chatting.
00:03:06
Speaker
Oh, did I do you a good intro? You did. Thanks. And you got my surname right. Well done. How are you, Jane? Yeah, good. Good. Board of law counting down the days. But yeah, really good. Good. Good. So, Jane, we're going to go straight in with the one rule of Inspire Club. And I would really like you to start by sharing with us a story of someone who has inspired you along the way at work.
Eddie Cunningham's Influence on Jane
00:03:31
Speaker
And not only who they are, but also why.
00:03:36
Speaker
So I focused on a work person for two reasons. I'm thinking about this person, one, someone who has inspired me and inspired the people around him as well, but also
00:03:53
Speaker
inspired me in a way to give me confidence to be better at work and in myself. So the person that I am going to talk about is Eddie Cunningham. So Eddie is the president of Universal Pictures Home Entertainment. I was lucky enough to work with him a few years ago when I was at NBC Universal, starting in an internal communications role.
00:04:19
Speaker
And he is a big Scottish man, just the loveliest, loveliest person in an absolute dream to work with, mostly because he is a man that really cares about culture, about employee engagement, about people and how important they are to running a business, which is an absolute dream for someone who works in internal comms, HR or engagement.
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah, like just wonderful to work with someone who has that mindset. So, you know, ideas you would throw around, he would just grab hold of and completely
00:05:03
Speaker
be in support of and be engaging the rest of the team in. So yeah, he's inspirational, really transparent in the way that he communicated with me and the team. You know, had real trust in his team as well. So really hired people around him. We knew what they were doing and trusted that they knew what they were doing and let them do their jobs. You know, had faith in me and the people around us.
00:05:28
Speaker
and just gave me faith in myself and encouraged me and gave me opportunities I never thought I would have had. So yeah, real inspiration and total rock star. Amazing. Eddie Cunningham, if you're out there, I hope you're listening and I hope you know how much you've inspired Jane along the way. Are you still in touch with him? Yes, I am. Yeah, he's living in Los Angeles now and whenever I go over there, we always grab a coffee. So yeah, he's amazing. Oh, amazing.
Improving Employee Experience at Warner Media
00:05:56
Speaker
Jane, time for your my why. What is it that drives you? So from a work capacity it is for me all about the employee experience which you know
00:06:10
Speaker
It's great that I'm in an employee experience role. So I actually have a chance to really impact the experience of our employees. So in everything that we do with our team, it's truly thinking about the impact of the work that we're doing and ensuring it's in service of what our employees need or what our employees want. And then the other thing that drives me and gives me purpose is really inspiring my team.
00:06:39
Speaker
I just, I have a wonderful team who I just want to feel they can do the best that they can do and be the best that they can be. Um, and just inspiring them to do that. So that brings me joy every day. Oh, you sound like an amazing leader as well. What's the best experience you've ever had at work? I think.
00:07:07
Speaker
for me it's definitely having had the opportunity to work in Los Angeles and not just because I got the chance to work in Los Angeles which is obviously amazing it was because I'm a huge film fan so being able to walk onto the universal lot every day and be close to where the content was being made was just
00:07:30
Speaker
literally a dream come true and being around the creative people who created that content as well. So and it just really inspired me to be able to bring that content to life in the work that I was doing as well and create really fun kind of new release activations around the movies that we were releasing. So things like Despicable Me and The Wolf of Wall Street and you know
00:07:57
Speaker
shows like that and movies like that, when you're actually that close to the content, you can really bring it to life. So definitely my best work experience.
00:08:07
Speaker
Wow, working on a film set, I just can't even imagine it. Yeah, it's not too shabby. But being able to link your passion, your passion for employee experience and being on a film set, that's just incredible. I think there's probably quite a lot of envious listeners right now, Jane. Yeah, sorry. I did come back to London.
00:08:32
Speaker
I am actually sure there's a lot right now, particularly given everything that we've gone through over the last 12 months. What do you think is a major workplace priority at the moment?
00:08:44
Speaker
For us, it's definitely really focused about re-engaging our colleagues. So we went through quite a big transformation as a business. Last year, we had a new CEO. Obviously, the whole piece around the virtual workforce. People have come into 2021 with new teams, new leaders, and new business, essentially, because we're refocusing our efforts as well.
00:09:10
Speaker
So the focus for me and my team is all around re-engaging our employees and getting them focused on the why, so the purpose of WarnerMedia. So why is WarnerMedia here? The what, so the priorities for us as a business for 2021. And then most importantly for us is the how, the expectations and the behaviours that are going to support
00:09:33
Speaker
the purpose and the strategic priorities. So they are the things we are most focused on right now and a huge priority for the business as well. So in the strategic priorities, we have a piece around culture. So it's sort of front and center of everyone's thinking in the business.
00:09:48
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that insight into what's the priority for you guys at WarnerMedia right now as well because I think we can often have these ideas of what we think it's like for other businesses or maybe how the last year has affected them or how it hasn't and actually that can be quite different to the truth and we don't always know what's going on so thanks so much for sharing that. I don't know if it was from Eddie Cunningham or it was from someone else but what's the best advice you've been ever given and who gave it to you? Do you still remember it?
00:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, I remember it really clearly.
Career Advice: Embracing Opportunities
00:10:20
Speaker
So it's a lady called Helen Parker who also works at Universal Pictures and reports into Eddie Cunningham, interestingly. Yeah, he, the two of them worked very closely together and Helen's a phenomenal woman. So her piece of advice that she shared, gosh, it must have been when I first started there, she shared it with a group of us and it was all around saying yes to all the opportunities.
00:10:45
Speaker
So especially when you're kind of early on in your career, just say yes. To say yes to things that feel outside of your comfort zone, yes to opportunities that are thrown your way just out of the blue, yes to stretch assignments that you might stretch outside of your day job or outside of your job spec, but give things a go because certainly for me doing that and saying yes and taking that advice has led me to some really amazing opportunities.
00:11:12
Speaker
leading the People, Growth and Experience team at WarnerMedia, being one of them, because that's definitely a stretch for me. Learning and development isn't the area of expertise that I've had over my career, so a real stretch for me, but an amazing opportunity.
00:11:30
Speaker
The eternity cover role led me to working in internal comms, so I took a risk by taking the Matt Leave role. It wasn't a permanent role, just because I wanted to try something new. Mr Conman in LA, so leaving the country, just going, ah, why not? I'll give it a go, see what happens, what's the worst that can happen. And then taking the role at Visa, which was all around setting up a new team and function.
00:11:54
Speaker
sort of at the time I didn't know that I'd have the confidence to do that and I thought no I'll say yes and see what happens so yeah all around staying yes to new opportunities that are thrown at you I think was the best advice. That is that is incredible advice um from Helen right Helen yeah yeah Helen yeah that's that's just like
00:12:18
Speaker
amazing and not only that she gave you that advice but how your proof that by following that advice and sticking to it the success that it's brought you I've often lived by a similar piece of advice which I'd rather try something and fail or even better grow learn and it lead me to a new path then just not try anything at all then just stay safe. I completely agree yeah I think you just have to
00:12:46
Speaker
Sometimes you just need to get over yourself in that inner voice, chatting away there and just say yes to something that maybe is out of your comfort zone or isn't exactly the right path, but it might lead you somewhere because these opportunities do. And like you said, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, you learn something and you move on. Yeah, just get over yourself.
00:13:14
Speaker
I think that might be great. Maybe I'll use that going forward. You may suggest a lot of opportunities and to some people that might seem quite scary and quite stressful and I'm sure there have been plenty of times where you've had stressful periods.
Stress Management Techniques
00:13:32
Speaker
What do you do to beat stress?
00:13:36
Speaker
Apart from drink wine. I actually, at Christmas, and this is something that I'd been really terrible at before, but the company gave everybody the gift of the Calm Meditation app as a gift to all WarnerMedia employees. And I was like, okay, I'm going to try using this. And I now use it twice a day, just for 10 minutes each time. And I cannot believe how much of a life changer it is.
00:14:06
Speaker
especially working from home because it switches you from work day to evening.
00:14:13
Speaker
in the first instance. So it kind of, I do that 10 minutes in between there. And then before I go to bed, it switches off my mind from what's gone on in the evening or the day earlier, so that I'm kind of refreshed for the morning. So meditation is kind of a quite a new thing for me, but really helping in lots of different aspects of my life and wine. So the two of them, perfect combination.
00:14:36
Speaker
Oh, that sounds like a perfect harmony. Well, I'm definitely taking up the wine part of that, but I'm going to have a look into that calm app because I struggle to flip between my role as a mother and my role as a leader and my role in work and home. And I'm sure that many people right now, we're all in the same environment. We're maybe missing that commute. We're missing the break. And yeah, I'm going to download that calm app.
00:15:08
Speaker
What do you think is the most important quality in a leader?
00:15:14
Speaker
I'm probably a little biased here because my background is communications but I genuinely think it's really clear transparent open communication and I mean that two-way so being able to have that between leaders and teams their direct reports or whether they are the wider team I think if you don't have that clear transparent and open communication you don't have
00:15:37
Speaker
a psychologically safe place to work. You don't have a space of trust. There's so much impact by not having leaders that can communicate well or listen well. So that would definitely be my top quality that all leaders should work on.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah, I really agree. We ran a global 24-hour event called the Inspirethon about a month ago now. And key themes, I was there for nearly all of those 24 hours of presenters. And the key themes that came from that was exactly what you're seeing around leaders need to get better.
00:16:18
Speaker
at communication which is honest and open and be human and admit to failures and admit to their own stresses and worries and lead by example through how they communicate with their people which in turn creates and this was a huge theme at the Inspireth on these psychologically safe workplaces
00:16:38
Speaker
We spent so many years making sure our workplaces were physically safe and now there's a real need for these psychologically safe places where people can thrive. You've just summarised it so perfectly. It's like you sat through the whole 24 hours teaching. Obviously I did, yeah. Is there anyone you'd ever want to swap jobs with just for a day?
00:17:00
Speaker
No, I want to swap jobs with someone for a life, but I want to be a travel photographer. So that would have been my other job if I'd have thought about that earlier in life. So yeah, anything to do with travel and photography, marry them together and it's the perfect job. Wow. Are we getting an insight into some of your hobbies there? Yeah, travel, travel, travel. So this year has been absolute torture. Oh, I can imagine excruciating for you. Where do you want to go to first?
00:17:28
Speaker
So I think, well actually and I like traveling to really different places but the first place I want to go is just somewhere where I can just sit and relax and not think about anything. So we went the year before last to Crete and stayed in this really beautiful hotel and it was
00:17:45
Speaker
just, and this isn't something I normally get excited about, but just beach and cocktails and sitting by the pool and reading. I just want to sit and read without my laptop and without doing video call. That's the first thing I want to do. I've already got my heart set on the place that we're going to go to.
Jane's Passion for Travel
00:18:02
Speaker
So yeah, that would be that. And then my, you know, my favourite place that we've been to, my husband and I, actually for our honeymoon was South Africa. So just everything about it, the food, the wine, the wildlife, the scenery, the people, it was just, yeah, fabulous. So I'd go back there in a heartbeat as well.
00:18:21
Speaker
Oh, amazing. You're getting us all dreaming here, Jane. Yeah, sorry. That's all right. I'm just thinking about getting at the house this year. It might have to be a tent with the kids, but it's not going to be a nice beach with cocktails, but let's just get us out. I'll send you some wine. South African. How do you stay productive, Jane?
00:18:48
Speaker
I have a thing that I do every morning which was shared with me by someone a few years ago, the big rocks, little rocks list.
Jane's Productivity Techniques
00:19:00
Speaker
The whole concept around you have a jar, if you fill it with all the little rocks, all the small bits of work that you need to do, you can't then fit the big rocks in on top of that. But if you fit the
00:19:12
Speaker
Fill it with the big rocks first, those five things that you absolutely need to do that day without fail, without letting all the other things get in the way. The other small rocks can kind of fall around that. So I write on two pieces of paper, big rocks, little rocks, and I focus on the big five, and then the little ones kind of just fall around it. So I'm good with lists.
00:19:35
Speaker
So that really helps me plan my day. Otherwise I would just go off on tangents and I'd react to emails or phone calls and whatever anyone else needs rather than focusing on what I need to get done. So that's how I sort of stay productive kicking off my mornings like that.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, that is a really, really good analogy, a brilliant story. Back in the day, I used to deliver time management and productivity training, and that was one of the examples. I do actually remember getting jars and carrying them across London with oranges and sweets and little rainbow drops and water. I think I even brought beer into one of the training rooms once and actually did the analogy. But I added too much sugar and beer, and it was just a complete mess, and I was in some...
00:20:18
Speaker
I was on the 35th floor in a beautiful training room in a bank in central London, just completely ruining their training rooms and stinking it out with beer. But it is an incredible analogy that's... It looks like we're rocks. Yeah, we're rocks. But look after the big things first. I was having the exact same conversation with someone this morning that you can't pull from an empty cup.
00:20:39
Speaker
Like you've got to look after the big things first and focus on what's really most important right now for you. And whether that's in work, like you say, the top five things that have to be done that day or have to be done that week, rather than focusing on all the little things or in your personal life, it might be like the drama is going on that are out of your control or worrying too much about the laundry and just completely neglecting yourself or your kids or whatever.
00:21:08
Speaker
else is going on in your life. So yeah, that's something incredible. I've forgotten about the rocks. I'm getting so much out of you today, Jay. What's the one thing you're learning at the moment? Or are you learning anything at the moment? Or you've learned something recently?
Pursuing a Coaching Diploma
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, I am. I just started in January, my coaching training. So I'm doing my coaching diploma at the moment. And
00:21:36
Speaker
A, I am completely in awe of all of the good coaches out there because it's way harder than it looks. I'm learning a lot about myself as well whilst I'm doing it.
00:21:52
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely loving it. And also just working with a new group of people. We're not getting a lot of new connections working from home. So it's been really lovely to connect with this group of people going on a similar journey to you, and they're all just wonderful. And one of the things that one of the trainers said the other day was, let's silence do the heavy lifting.
00:22:15
Speaker
And that's probably one of the things that I've struggled with, learning the sort of technique of coaching is just staying silent. You know, the room isn't mine. The room is my clients. And you just need to give them the space to think and process. And that requires you shutting up and not doling out advice or jumping in with another question. It's just letting silence do the heavy lifting. So I thought that was a really
00:22:44
Speaker
really interesting learning as I'm going through that coaching training. So yeah, that's my current focus actually for the rest of this year. Staying silent. Staying silent, yeah. How hard is it? It's so hard. It is so hard.
00:23:01
Speaker
It is so hard. I qualified as a coach about seven years ago, and it was probably one of the biggest learning curves for me in my life. I mean, everyone's listening probably right now has guessed that I'm definitely an activist. I'm certainly an extrovert. I'm a very chatty person from Wales. And the art, we learned about Nancy Klein, time to think and time to be silent.
00:23:31
Speaker
that is so, so, I could not believe how much people pay coaches to not really say anything. And I couldn't believe it until I had to learn to become a coach myself and realise it's actually an art. It's so hard. It is an art. That's exactly what it is. It is really hard.
00:23:47
Speaker
And to not have your voice kind of going on in your head thinking, what do I ask next? What do I think of next? You're supposed to be completely present and focusing on the person in the room. So yeah, it's fascinating and it's definitely going to, you know, they call it coaching practice. That's exactly what it's going to require. Lots and lots of practice. Yeah. Yeah. You'll be practicing it on your husband and when you eventually get to see people outside of the house. Exactly. Yeah. I keep doing it with people. They don't know what I'm doing, but
00:24:17
Speaker
Right, we've got a quick fire round now. Jane, are you ready? Yes. If you were a teacher, what would you teach? I would, I would teach, this is something I don't think they do well in schools. Sorry, this isn't very quick fire. Um, like how do you prepare young people to walk into real life? Yeah, life skills, 100%. Oh, so needed. Are you an early bird or a night owl?
00:24:42
Speaker
early bird, which makes it really challenging when I work with the US and everyone comes online kind of at five o'clock.
00:24:50
Speaker
What's your favourite music or album or a song that really gets you going when you really need it? Definitely. So Brothers in Arms, Die Straits is my favourite album and Money for Nothing is my go-to song. So if I'm in my car, that full blast for mostly for the drum solo. So anything that has a drum solo actually. But yeah, it's my favourite album.
00:25:17
Speaker
Talk to me about what you're like around the house. Do you hope your husband will do the chores or you're laughing here? I'm wondering if my husband can hear. I am not great around the house. My husband definitely does the heavy lifting so you know I hate
00:25:37
Speaker
I hate washing up, thank goodness. The first thing I checked when we were looking for a new house if it had a dishwasher. So no, my husband does a lot of the stuff around house. He cooks really lovely food. I'm really, really lucky. So yeah, and he finds it quite therapeutic, which is good. But yeah, he does the heavy lifting.
00:25:57
Speaker
This podcast is perfectly timed around International Women's Day and it's so great to hear these stereotypes of women doing everything around the house, just being completely squashed. I mean, it's so great and so refreshing to hear that as well. What's your favourite film? That's an easy one, Breakfast at Tiffany's. Oh, great one, and an Aldi as well. I know, I love it. Anything with Audrey Hepburn, but Breakfast at Tiffany's by far my favourite movie, I love it.
00:26:27
Speaker
What's something you've done and you'd never do again? Keep it clean. That's easy scuba diving. I got my paddy when I went to Australia. So before I went to Australia, because I wanted to dive the Great Barrier Reef and I hated every single minute of it. So never dive again.
00:26:48
Speaker
No, I can snorkel and that's about as deep as I'd like to go. Jane, you've travelled a lot. We know you love to travel and in another life you'd be a travel photographer and you've travelled a lot with work. If I asked you to pick the best place in the world that you've been to, where would it be?
00:27:10
Speaker
So outside of South Africa, I think the two most interesting places I've been that are so different to the way that we live were Cambodia, just completely, completely couldn't be more different to being in the UK. And it was really humbling. And I just had such an amazing experience there. And then the other place is Japan. And I think going somewhere where
00:27:37
Speaker
they don't speak your language and you don't speak their language. And trying to get by doing that is fascinating. The food is amazing, but it's really difficult to order food because you can't speak each other's languages. It's a beautiful country. But yeah, that was just a real culture shock for me as well. So I'd say they're the two most different countries I've been to, which I just found unbelievably fascinating.
00:28:05
Speaker
Amazing. Amazing. I'd like to go. I feel like it would be, I went to Moscow and I found that quite hard work because of the language difference and the cultural differences in how you behave and act as well. I feel like Japan's maybe pushing it a little bit too difficult for me, but that's where I need to take your advice and just get over myself and say yes and do it. Say yes. Say yes. Thank you, Helen. Just say yes.
00:28:33
Speaker
Jane, who would you like, this is my final question for you, who would you like to listen to or for us to interview on a future episode of Inspire Club?
Future Podcast Guest Nominations
00:28:42
Speaker
So this was really, really difficult because there were so many people. So I went from kind of people like Michelle Obama and Arianna Huntington to a couple of people that I think, who I follow on social media, who I just think are doing really fascinating things and really pushing boundaries
00:29:02
Speaker
One of them is John Amici. So he calls himself the everyday Jedi. So he does a lot around leadership coaching and change and DEI. And it's just the way that he expresses himself and tells his stories and gets his point across. It's really, really impactful. I've never known anyone like that. So the things that he's talked about and he's worked with us a bit at Warner Media as well, just
00:29:27
Speaker
super impactful, charming, wonderful man. So John Amici. And then the other person is James Watt, who runs Brewdog. So he's just done so many amazing things. He's really inspiring, you know, he's changing the world. So yeah, the two of them. And the other person I like, I'm going to throw a woman in there, as it's the week it is, is Anna Whitehouse. So mother pucker, she's just been, you know,
00:29:56
Speaker
fighting the fight for parents. And I'm not a parent myself, but oh my goodness, I admire her for speaking up and just being super honest and herself and then obviously her husband speaking for her and him as well. So yeah, the three of them I would throw in.
00:30:14
Speaker
they are amazing I follow all of them and they're like my go-to people inspiration as well so we actually did have Anna speaking at a conference we were running which got cancelled because it was a some it was an event of 2020 that didn't happen but yeah groundbreaking research there's amazing things that Brewdog have done pivoting during a pandemic from
00:30:36
Speaker
not just beer to hand sanitise, but also what they're doing internally for their people. It's been just some incredible stories. So we're coming for you. We're coming for you. Thank you for those three nominations, Jane. You've got Jane to blame for that when I start coming for you to come on the podcast with me or with Matt.
00:30:52
Speaker
Jane, it's been so nice talking to you. I always love having you. It's quite nice just to record it and let everyone else listen to it as well. And what a woman, I'm sure everyone will agree, what a woman you are, completely flying the flag and leading so well in employee experience and engagement. And you're such a passionate leader and someone that I would love to work
00:31:19
Speaker
to work with. I'm not going to leave. Don't worry, inspiring workplaces. I'm not jumping ship to horror media. But thank you so much. It's so interesting to get to know you as a person as well. We always talk about work, right? We always talk about new work. Yeah, it's true, we do.
00:31:35
Speaker
It's so nice to get a bit of an insight into people's lives as well. So thank you. Thank you to everyone that's listening. And we'll be back soon with a future episode, maybe with someone that Jane's nominated or someone that's inspired Jane. As we've mentioned a few times, we are seeing International Women's Day at the moment this week. So if you haven't already seen it, look out for the e-book where we have curated it with our community.
00:32:02
Speaker
So with our community of inspirers we've worked together to ask them the gender gap it's in fact increasing not decreasing as we'd like to have seen and the pandemic has only heightened the issues we're seeing in the disparity in gender so we went out and asked our community what do we need to do about it. So look out for that ebook that we have released and again thank you Jane for being such a remarkable and incredible woman on the podcast today and I'll see you soon.