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Multistaged Magnetic Survey in Florida - Ep 128
182 Plays5 years ago
Today we have a free-ranging discussion prompted by the article "Using Multistaged Magnetic Survey and Excavation to Assess Community Settlement Organization: A Case Study from the Central Peninsular Gulf Coast of Florida" by Christina Perry Sampson and Timothy J. Horsley, from the February 2020 issue of Advances in Archaeological Practice.
Links
- Sampson, Christina Perry and Timothy J. Horsley: Using Multistaged Magnetic Survey and Excavation to Assess Community Settlement Organization: A Case Study From The Central Peninsular Gulf Coast of Florida, Advances in Archaeological Practice 8(1), pp. 53-64.
- DOI: 10.1017/aap.2019.45
Contact
- Chris Webster
- Twitter: @archeowebby
- Email: chris@archaeologypodcastnetwork.com
- Paul Zimmerman
- Twitter: @lugal
- Email: paul@lugal.com
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Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
We're excited to announce that our very own podcasting platform, Zencaster, has become a new sponsor to the show. Check out the podcast discount link in our show notes and stay tuned for why we love using Zen for the podcast.
Introduction to Episode 128
00:00:19
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Archeotech Podcast, Episode 128. I'm your host, Chris Webster, with my co-host, Paul Zimmerman.
Magnetic Techniques in Florida Archaeology
00:00:26
Speaker
Today, we discuss using two magnetic techniques to find features in Florida. Let's get to it.
00:00:34
Speaker
All right. Welcome to the show, everybody. Welcome, Paul. How's it going today? Doing OK. We had a stretch of a couple of weeks of really gloomy weather, but for the last few days, it's been sunshiny and I've been doing some work in the yard. So, you know, finally getting a little exercise and a little vitamin D and it helps. It helps in this strange 2020 we're living in.
Client Work and Project Management
00:00:52
Speaker
How have you been, Chris?
00:00:53
Speaker
You know, not too bad. Uh, still, still staying busy. I've just taken on a, a new client with one of the organizations I work with that is going to really take up all my time. In fact, today, as we're recording this, uh, it's may 5th. I was always mentioning the time these days or the date just in case, but may 5th, 2020. And, uh, just got off a meeting with these guys and we set up, uh, I think for a total of four appointments weekly starting next week that are eight hours a week. So two to three hour long appointments and.
00:01:23
Speaker
It's intense. It's a lot, but I like having it on a calendar. It's more organized from a project management standpoint. It's going to let us get a lot done. So anyway, yeah, keeping me busy for sure. So that's why it's nice to have these, yeah, to have these asides where we can talk about archeology. Yeah. And I guess it's nice to have actual work now that so many people have lost jobs.
00:01:43
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you what, man, I'm not really religious. And if I said things like, I feel blessed, I would say that, but I don't. But I still feel pretty good that I do have work, like you said, because even the company that purchased the company that I'm working for, they laid off a ton of people at the start of this and reduced salaries by up to 15% for some of the ones they kept around. Part of that's because one of their main business lines was basically in-person training.
00:02:10
Speaker
which obviously they can't do right now, and they have no other way to actually supplement that. Federal law requires in-person training for what they do. So that took down a huge business line for them. But this company that they purchased, the one I work for, we don't do anything in person, right? It's all remote. It's all just setting stuff up for other companies. So it's actually really good for them from a profit standpoint, which is why I have a job and will still have a job regardless of what's going on, because
00:02:36
Speaker
you know, it's all safety related and this is a, this is a safety issue. So yeah, it's good for us. Yeah. So anyway, let's talk about
In-depth Discussion on Magnetic Surveys
00:02:46
Speaker
this article. So we, we have some, we have just before we get started here, I just want to bring up, we have some great interviews coming up. Uh, we have Wesley Weatherby,
00:02:55
Speaker
Mark McCoy, Isaac Eula, talking about all kinds of different things. And there's another one, which I don't have on my list yet, but we have a lot of great interviews coming up, but for now, Paul and I are going to talk about one of the other articles that we pulled down from the Society for American Archaeology, Publication Advances in Archaeological Practice, volume eight from 2020. And this is page 53 to 64. It says copyright 2019, although this is the one that came out in February that was available online.
00:03:25
Speaker
The article is called Using Multistaged Magnetic Survey and Excavation to Assess Community Settlement Organization, a case study from the Central Peninsula Gulf Coast of Florida. And this article is written by Christina Perry Sampson and Timothy J. Horsley. So check that out. We'll have the article linked in the show notes at arcpodnet.com forward slash archaeotech forward slash one two eight for the episode number.
00:03:51
Speaker
All right, so when they say using multi-stage magnetic survey, basically the long and the short of this is they use something called magnetic susceptibility, which is something Paul and I were not familiar with, and magnetometry data to find features at a Florida, basically a shell midden type place from the looks of it, to find
Survey Tools and Techniques
00:04:10
Speaker
features. They found anomalies with both and then found features. I mean, that's basically it, right?
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. I mean, I have two minds reading it. One, you know, it's well written. There's nothing objectionable about it. And I was looking for what the magic sauce is. What did they do here that was really special? And I couldn't quite find it. I think that that's not a fault of the article. I think that's a fault of my lack of knowledge of Gulf Coast archaeology or magnetometry or magnetic susceptibility, which, as you said,
00:04:39
Speaker
neither of us had heard before this article. And what I got as an overarching theme of it was that we can look at things with multiple tools for multiple scales to help know where to excavate or to investigate more closely. And that, of course, is not anything new at all. And that brought me right back around to, well, this is a really nice case study of that.
00:04:57
Speaker
Just to set up our listeners, the survey area is on Weeden Island on Florida's Gulf Coast facing inwards toward Tampa Bay. The total site area that they surveyed is, I guess, about four hectares. It comprises two mounds, which I think are the shell middens, and the surrounding area around the mounds.
00:05:17
Speaker
The entire area that they were surveying in, or much of it, is covered by forest, which makes pedestrian survey difficult. Hey, Chris, have you done surveying in wooded areas before? Oh my God. Have I done surveying in wooded areas? I've only done it in the desert. I've done a lot of surveying.
Survey Challenges in Wooded Areas
00:05:36
Speaker
All I have to worry about are big rocks and snakes.
00:05:40
Speaker
No, I've worked in Florida. I've done survey in central Florida, not near Tampa Bay, but, but down near Lake Okeechobee and then excavation on the, uh, on the Atlantic coast. But then lots of, lots of wooded survey in Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, all over the place there. So I imagine it's, uh, it's very much the same. It's horrific depending on what time of year you're in. Yeah. Well, it's tough physically, but it's also tough just methodologically because you've got, you know, how do you walk a nice transect when you've got trees to dodge, right?
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trees. And then like the soft Palmetto's I'm looking at some of the pictures here and you know, yeah, I know. I imagine they had to do a lot of machete work just to, just to open up some of these areas. Cause you can see like dead leaves and things from some of these branches just sitting on the ground on one of their images on one of like the second page of the article here.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's rough. And not to mention, there's another complication too. Nearly all of Florida is sand and it's relatively low elevation and sand until you get to like North Florida, it starts to change a little bit. But down where they're at, it's more than likely all sands that they're digging in and sand has one inherent quality.
00:06:46
Speaker
Regardless of how dry it looks, sand is wet. Sand is wet before you dig it out. It might seem drier than the other sand, but it's basically wet, which has a massive impact on your magnetometry data because water has an effect on how that stuff reads. So just a quick aside, we'll get into this in more detail, but using these two different techniques was actually kind of smart because one, might provide some false positives or maybe some fuzzy anomalies that you really can't tell what they are, but two,
00:07:12
Speaker
you know, cross, cross checking those and saying, okay, there's an intersection here where these two things provided maybe a fuzzy anomaly on their own, but they both said the same thing. So let's dig there and see what it is. Right. And so, um, background to the, uh, to the, uh, the forest cover, when you did the survey, did you ever use any geophysical equipment for that?
00:07:33
Speaker
Unfortunately,
Geophysical Equipment in Archaeology
00:07:34
Speaker
in CRM, we hardly ever get to any geophysical methods, but it was mostly shovel testing and unit testing. Right. So one of their points here, and these two combine, and this is, I think, probably really the smart part of the article, is they combine. They're saying that because of the forest cover, it's hard for them to move their geophysical equipment
00:07:53
Speaker
in any sensible way. It's difficult to run good transects that you'd want for magnetometry. And it's even for simpler or less cumbersome tools. It still is. It's a hassle. So they're trying to use different tools at different scales of resolution, like you were saying, to try to augment each other. Now, again, one of the big problems with the sandiness is that magnetometry
00:08:20
Speaker
doesn't particularly necessarily do very well with sandy soils. So what they were doing, and this gets back to the thing that you and I both just learned about, was magnetic susceptibility.
00:08:31
Speaker
And what the authors surmise and then go to show is that in places where there's lots of ancient human activity, especially things like food preparation and especially burning, that there's enough iron content in that sandy soil that that will change the magnetic susceptibility
00:08:52
Speaker
in such a way that it would be picked up, even though it can only go just a few centimeters down into the soil, the equipment can only measure a few centimeters into the soil, it'll pick up that difference enough that they can then go and find anomalies and then return with their more sensitive equipment in those areas that there's enough clearance that they can use the full magnetometry rigs.
00:09:13
Speaker
to go over a second finer grain pass. So that first pass that they took with the magnetic susceptibility equipment is on roughly a 10 meter grid, but they said, yeah, some places it was five meters, some places it was a little different. We couldn't rock really straight transects because of the tree cover, which is fine. They say, hey, this is better than not doing it. And then they go on to argue why it is, in fact, better than not doing it.
Alternative Survey Methods
00:09:42
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, the alternative is to shovel test and to shovel test close interval. And that is on the, on the one hand, it's destructive. So whatever you find, you're pulling out a context regardless. You know, I mean, that's just what you're doing. And then it's also really time consuming. You know, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot more people involved in it. And I mean, the destructive nature of it is really the big thing though. So you're just, you're pulling things out of context and you've got to dig a lot of shovel tests, uh, you know, on a grid in order to see stuff.
00:10:08
Speaker
And then on top of that, but depending on what size of grid that you're shovel testing on, you might not be able to even really nail down where you need to be. Typically, I'm looking at one of these pictures and it's very similar to a survey, a big one that we did in North Carolina off the Cape Fear River, had very similar vegetation to it. And that was, I think, I don't know how many acres that was, but we dug somewhere around 3,000 to 5,000 shovel tests, I want to say, on a 30 meter interval.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah, that was just the regular shovel tests. And then if you find a positive shovel test, you do the cruciform delineation on those shovel tests. So you'll dig, you'll dig anywhere from, you know, five to 10 more shovel tests, just to determine whether or not you actually have an archeological site based on the number of artifacts and potential features that you find in those. And then we came back and each one of those that we thought might be a site, we did closer interval shovel testing in a grid over the top. So usually five meters, sometimes less, but five meters is still 15 feet. That's a long ways.
00:11:03
Speaker
You know, and there could easily be features that are abnormally shaped within that grid that you're just digging around, right? You're just like, you're never going to see. And, and really the only thing we ever found were, you know, on those types of grids are if we got lucky, we found something smaller, but typically we found some, some really large, uh, what were probably settlements. I don't know. I never got to see the final reports on those, but I mean, when you find 20,000 pot shards,
00:11:28
Speaker
it's probably some sort of settlement, right? Some sort of long-term occupation. So that's the kind of stuff we were able to find with those, but anything smaller, you know, it just wasn't happening. And that's what I like about this is, you know, for me to do a meter wide swath, you know, just of shovel tests on down the line, you know, a 20 meter long line, that's going to take me
00:11:48
Speaker
several hours to do, depending on how deep you're going and what you're finding. But to walk across that with a magnetometer, you just finished it right then. And then you just have to go back and process the data. And then using the, I'm not actually sure how the magnetic susceptibility thing works, but it looks like you just jam it into the ground. And then I don't know what you do, turn it on or something. I'm not sure what the data looks like from that. But either way, much quicker.
00:12:12
Speaker
much quicker to cover a lot more ground doing that and then come back and investigate the anomalies. And if you come back and investigate the anomalies and they're cultural, they weren't like a buried tree that got soaked in with high iron content sand or something like that, which does happen.
00:12:27
Speaker
But if they're actually cultural, man, you just nailed your approach right there and, uh, and saved yourself a heck of a lot of time and a heck of a lot of needless destruction to actually find those things. One thing I want to point out real quick is the site number for the Whedon site is eight PI one, which if you decode the Smithsonian trinomial eight is the number for Florida. That's just back in the day they decided what that was, the number was going to be. So that's the number for, well, it was alphabetical to start, but that was before all the states were actually included. So there's some near the end that are not in the right numbering sequence.
00:12:57
Speaker
but eight is the number for Florida, PI is the number for the county, whatever county that means. I haven't looked to see what county that is. And then one is the first site given, the first number given to a site in that county when they started giving site numbers. So that was probably back in the sixties or seventies. I'm not actually sure. So this is a really old, well-known site from the looks of it. You've just given that data.
00:13:20
Speaker
Totally off topic here, but there's one, there's the number one again, there's one footnote in the article and it says, I'm just gonna read it here. The Weeden Island Preserve maintains the original spelling based on early owner Leslie Weeden, W-E-E-D-O-N. Following Jesse Fuchs' excavations and publication using the name Weeden, W-E-E-D-E-N, the 8PI1 site in archaeological culture became known by this alternate spelling.
00:13:47
Speaker
So basically it's been misspelled all along because somebody early on misspelled it. And that cracked me up because I live in New York City and there's a street downtown called Houston, H-O-U-S-T-O-N. And anybody that sees that, that isn't from New York, sees it and says, Houston.
00:14:05
Speaker
That's because at one point they had street signs made and it used to be Houston, H-A-U-S-T-O-N. Whoever made the street signs painted them wrong. They decided that it was going to be too expensive to switch out. They retained the wrong spelling, but the Houston name. Anyhow.
00:14:29
Speaker
That's awesome. Stuff like that. And when that knowledge is lost, the knowledge of why that's changed, when that's lost, you know, 50 years down the road or something like that, because all the people associated with it are gone now. That's when we get interesting, really interesting names. That's why place name surveys are so important to figure out, you know, what was going on here back in the time. And sometimes it's just a,
00:14:52
Speaker
a wacky spelling error. Like I wonder about stuff. Like I literally saw somebody just post the other day on Facebook or something like that, but it was a picture of a milepost sign in Oregon and it was milepost 68.9. They added this little aster, this little piece down on the bottom of it that was basically 0.9 on milepost 68 because everyone in that area kept stealing the 69, 69 signs.
00:15:19
Speaker
Colorado around the mile marker for 20. Oh my God. Right. Yeah. So 68.9 there. But in, in after the apocalypse, when nobody's around anymore, somebody's going to come around and say, what the hell is mile post 68.9? Some poor future historian is going to have to go through Twitter to figure this one out. Exactly. Exactly. The Twitter, the archeology of Twitter. So, um, uh, that's going to happen.
00:15:47
Speaker
All right. So in the last couple of minutes of this segment, I do want to comment before we dig a little farther into this. You know, you were talking about when you first mentioned this article, we first started talking about this today.
00:16:00
Speaker
kind of the point behind it, right? And, you know, talking about the, you know, what, what did they actually learn here? You know, what, what do we get from this? But I think some of these, I think sometimes these types of articles are really important because, you know, there's, for example, I learned about magnetic susceptibility and I think there's probably a lot of people out there that never took a shallow geophysicist class like I did in my, in my grad school. I was very fortunate to have that class available and
00:16:26
Speaker
you know, they might not be aware of in certain areas, you know, like maybe they don't have the $50,000 it's going to take to do an intense shovel testing survey, but they can hire a company that has this equipment for maybe $5,000 and at least identify where some features are. And if that's the only thing you can do from a CRM standpoint to maybe block off an area. So construction doesn't come in. Sure. You haven't ground truth that maybe you could drop in some probes to see if you can identify any of those features, but
00:16:54
Speaker
And it maybe gets pull something cultural out of them, but it's better than nothing. And I think articles like this, while they're not earth shattering, they're not, you know, identifying any brand new technology or anything like that. It might open somebody's mind to a possibility that they weren't thinking of. And I think that's why these articles are important and why they're good for people to keep writing because yeah, it's just, uh, it's something just somebody may not have been thinking about. It might seem obvious to somebody, but not obvious to other people. And,
00:17:22
Speaker
Yeah, this, this might just open somebody up to other possibilities. And honestly, I don't know how much magnet, I don't know what magnetic susceptibility costs, but magnetometers are basically simple. Literally every single one I've seen is made out of PVC and it's just got a couple of coils in it. And really the receiving unit is probably the expensive part.
Advantages of Magnetometry
00:17:40
Speaker
And you know, since there's probably not that many of them, I'm sure it's not that cheap, but you can definitely hire companies like Dan Bigman of Bigman geophysical, who we've had on before, they do all this kind of stuff. So you can hire them to come out and just do it, which would,
00:17:52
Speaker
It costs you a lot less money than 10 field texts and two months worth of survey.
00:17:57
Speaker
All right, well, on that note, let's take a break and come back and keep talking about this article back in a second. Chris Webster here for the archeology podcast network. We strive for high quality interviews and content so you can find information on any topic in archeology from around the world. One way we do that is by recording interviews with our hosts and guests located in many parts of the world all at once. We do that through the use of Zencaster. That's Z E N C A S
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00:19:26
Speaker
Hi, welcome back to The Architect Podcast, Episode 128. Today, we're discussing a little article that we read in the February 2020 edition of Advances in Archaeological Practice. And they're discussing magnetometry and magnetic susceptibility for looking at a site on coastal Florida. And just before the break, Chris, you were talking about how you can see using these tools to really make a project more efficient, to cut down the cost. And you're looking at this
00:19:56
Speaker
100% from your project manager's CRM point of view. And I thought what I actually liked about the article, what I thought they did particularly well, is that they had something of a hypothesis in the test. The problem was that they have these difficult conditions, the sandy soil, the forest cover. They've got a couple tools that they think they can use in conjunction to zero in on likely spots that are going to be the best bang for their buck for the excavation.
00:20:22
Speaker
Then they go through it. I'm not going to go into too much detail because I don't really know how to assess the actual archaeology of it. This is well outside of my wheelhouse, but they show some beautiful pictures, figure five if you're following along, of their magnetometry results and then their excavated units. You can see a very good correlation between the hot spots on those magnetometry and what to my eye look like soil stains in those units, but they argue that these are meaningful
Academic vs. CRM Perspectives
00:20:49
Speaker
and I can't say that they're not.
00:20:52
Speaker
So I thought that was, you know, the whole time that you were talking about productivity and $50,000 and $5,000 a touch, my brain was going to, well, no, but there's a logical progression here to what they did. And they just, you know, they said, we can do this. And then they showed proof is in the pudding that they could actually do it. So I don't know if we want to, you know, run down this rabbit hole. But I do think that that's one of the fun things I like about being on this podcast is that you and I come at
00:21:22
Speaker
you know, our interests from very different points of view. Yeah. And I never even recognized that either. Like it's the first thing I think about was, you know, this would be cheaper if I could pull this together, you know, and we had the time to be honest to do it. And I like to make those associations too, because I don't think a lot of project managers
00:21:44
Speaker
really sit down and think about stuff because a lot of times we don't have time to think about that. That's why articles like this, this is relatively short. I mean, it's only less than 10 pages or something. It's not that many. And it really kind of gets to the point. And I like that because it's relatable. It's in an area where a lot of people are doing very similar things. They're doing stuff out here. I don't know why these guys were out here. I don't think I read that far into the article to find out what prompted this, if there really is just an academic study or CRM related or something like that.
00:22:13
Speaker
Knowing that this is a well-known site is probably not CRM unless it's like a section 110 survey or something. Either way, it's interesting because, again, from a CRM standpoint, most project managers, you're handed a project
00:22:27
Speaker
by your company, by your PI, and they say, hey, we need to get a field authorization, a field work authorization, and we need to get out there and start working on this in two weeks, something like that. So here's your budget, right? You probably didn't even have the opportunity to come up with a budget, and the budget includes
00:22:43
Speaker
a formula that says, okay, here's the size of the project area. We're doing shovel testing or we're doing survey. Here's how many acres or here's how many shovel tests we can typically do in a day. This is our formula. And that's how companies bid projects. They never bid projects by saying, well, instead of shovel testing, let's do a magnetometry survey first, or let's do GPR first. They almost never do that. And I honestly don't understand why.
00:23:07
Speaker
you know, look at the project area, which they do, they'll hopefully take a look at some maps and some terrain maps. And, and, uh, if you've got some aerial aerial photography, that's even better. So you can tell what kind of vegetation and things like that are out there, you know, and then make your best determination. And you can't do that if you don't read articles like this and understand what's possible and what's out there. I mean, this was basically two people, probably three that were two to three people that were out there with just a couple of pieces of gear and a machete more than likely because of the veg and they were just out there.
00:23:37
Speaker
you know, doing the survey and then they came back and analyze the data and then maybe took a crew back out. Maybe it was just them again, if this was more of an academic thing. And then they, they found some, they found some good stuff that figure five is the proof in the pudding right there. I don't know.
00:23:52
Speaker
without really pouring over this article real closely, I don't know how many actual anomalies and features they identified and how many they were able to actually test. It looks like a number of test units on some of these maps here, quite a few actually. And they did all these test units over the high density anomaly areas, but it's really cool. Yeah, looking at their table one, lots of strong positive, they said right here, lots of units in the strong positive and the anomaly source.
00:24:19
Speaker
it looks like they excavated all these and they were actually all something. They were all something cultural, it looks like, with very few exceptions. And even the ones that were weak were better than nothing. And it looks like they still showed some stuff in the weak signal. So just looking at these data right here, this should be proof that any survey done in a Sandy environment like this, you could use these two techniques to
00:24:44
Speaker
eliminate a massive amount of needless shovel testing. Because most of the people, when they do their shovel testing, they'll find the high probability areas, then you'll expand on those shovel tests. If it's a close interval shovel testing, you'll do some test units. You pop in a bunch of test units, find the high probability areas for those test units, and then you'll start feature chasing. Because chances are, your test unit was not surrounding completely a feature. You're not that good.
00:25:08
Speaker
the feature is going to be in a wall somewhere. Then you're going to open up the unit next to it. Well, that's going to open up another thing and another thing and another thing. And typically you'll go two units negative before you stop. And that will allow you to just keep on going. And that's how you spread out an intensive excavation. And
00:25:25
Speaker
Man, that is a lot of work. That is a ton of work, a ton of volume moved just to basically go hunting with very, very poor data. And this is such better data to do that with. It's good. I like it. And it seems simple. I wish I knew how much this cost to do.
00:25:41
Speaker
I wish I knew how long it took them to do the project because if they said in the article, I missed it. That gets to kind of your field crews excavated. I won't scan and read it right now while we're recording. I'll have to take a closer look at it. But we ought to discuss later to see if it seems like it took an extra long amount of time. I mean, if they were doing hypothesis testing and we're trying to develop a new system of working in this environment,
00:26:08
Speaker
It could well take quite a bit longer than it would in a regular survey once the methods have been established. But I'm just guessing now.
00:26:18
Speaker
Well, under the magnetometer survey section, they talk about their methodology. They don't, they don't really say how long it took, but how long it took.
Survey Methodologies
00:26:25
Speaker
They don't really say how long it took, but they did talk about, yeah, take rent. They didn't talk about the big areas for basic survey areas. 15 by 15 meter, one 30 by 20, um, two 15 by 15, one 30 by 20 and one 20 by 20 meter area. And those are pretty good sized areas. Those are,
00:26:43
Speaker
Those are comparable to what you do close interval testing on if you were to find something on say a shovel testing survey, which had 30 meter interval testing on the shovel meters, shovel testing. If you found something, dug a few more tests around it in that cruciform sort of pattern, then you would come back and do close interval shovel testing or auger testing on an area of these sizes. So that totally makes sense.
00:27:05
Speaker
And you would also come through and do exactly what they did for that close inner role, and you would clear out all the vegetation. They even mentioned that that was a time-consuming process, moving saplings and undergrowth and veg. There's only one I'll really admit to, because I'm pretty sure I didn't do the other one. But I chopped at least one, you know, those expensive 100-meter tapes that are on the roll. Those aren't super cheap. I know I chopped at least one of those in half with the machete, because it was draped over where we were supposed to be doing it, and I just got too close to it.
00:27:32
Speaker
Got a little too wacky with the machete. That was not a good time. But either way, even if it's time consuming, I mean, I'll tell you what, you're going to clear that stuff out anyway to do the shovel testing. So that is time consuming. Going over that area that you just cleared and doing this before you go in and start digging units, I still think is more beneficial in the long run.
00:27:53
Speaker
Let me ask you a follow-up, then. Have you ever done CRM work that was preceded by geophysical work like this? Not necessarily these particular tools, but have you gone to follow up with what GPR results were from somebody that worked on it prior to you?
00:28:16
Speaker
Not even a single time. Really? I've been on excavations in the Middle East where we have, where we've brought in magnetometry or GPR to try to determine where on the tell we were going to excavate. And there was- Oh, sure. With great success.
00:28:32
Speaker
Oh, I mean, there's, there's proven success track, uh, successful track records for it, but companies are cheap and they think that they think that it's more expensive to either a only equipment, which it's not cheap. They're right. But also to hire somebody to do the work for them, like hiring, uh, big men, uh, geophysical or something like that.
00:28:51
Speaker
You know, there's a, they just, they just can't see beyond the initial check. They got it right. Right. Uh, field, field texts just seem cheaper because they're easier and they're safer. They're, they're, they're people that are known, known quantities to, to these guys running the companies.
Training Gaps in Archaeological Tech
00:29:05
Speaker
And you know, maybe it's a, maybe it's a knowledge of the technology as well. You know, like we talked about in the last episode, archeological technological training is not very good and it might be glazed over in a, in a grad school course or something like that.
00:29:19
Speaker
definitely glazed over in a, in an undergrad course. I mean, you're never going to talk about this stuff unless you go to a field school where they're pulling out all the ways, whiz bang tools, then you're going to see it once. But otherwise that training is just not there. So, so we don't, we're not given the tools to understand how to use those tools. We're not using, we're not given the right tools to understand what to use in the right time and in the right way. You know, cause you don't, you don't want to bring GPR out in a certain environment. You don't want to bring resistivity out in a certain environment. You know, you have to know,
00:29:49
Speaker
when and where to use these things. Otherwise you are going to waste your money and your time. But that's why you hire a company and say, Hey, I've got this amount of area, this type of soil, uh, background research shows I should find these types of anomalies, these types of features or something like that. What do you think is the best way to approach this? And a good company won't say, won't try to force one of their geophysical methods down your throat. They might say, Hey, shovel testing is the best way to approach that. Or they'll be like, Hey, we can pull a GPR out there and cover the whole area in a week.
00:30:18
Speaker
and, uh, tell you where your anomalies are, uh, with, uh, with this degree of certainty more than likely based on past experience, you know, something like that. So yeah. Uh, I mean, of course you saw this kind of stuff on, on more academically related projects because they, they get the funding to do that. They say, Hey, yeah, we want to do this for archeology, even in academia, but it's, but yeah, it's not, it's not bottom line driven in the same way that it is with, uh, right. Yeah.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's really frustrating to be honest. I wish, uh, I wish we could do more, a lot of that stuff, you know, and, and figure it out. But like, for example, I've got a project that I'm supposed to be doing. In fact, I've been on meetings for the last four hours, including this podcast. And, uh, I got a call from one of my potential clients, uh, that I do work for probably about this. So I've got to return her call and get off this. But
00:31:08
Speaker
You know, there's a project coming up and I know it's a survey. I know it's in the mountains, um, in the high desert near Alco, and I don't know what the terrain is. And I think probably my sense of it, the best method is going to be pedestrian survey, um, just because of the, the nature of where we're going to be. But that being said,
00:31:27
Speaker
You know, I might give Dan a call. I might give Dan a call and say, Dan, here's the terrain and here's what we've got going on. Do you think there's some sort of shallow geophysical method that would help us better than just pedestrian survey in this particular circumstance? Because we always default to pedestrian survey in the, in the high desert, but realistically I'm going to be in the mountains and there could be a lot of areas where there is good soil buildup, you know, just from typical seasonal runoff and, and, and those types of activities. So.
00:31:56
Speaker
You know, as pedestrian survey in an area with a lot of vegetation and a lot of steep angles and steep terrain going to be the best thing. Probably not. No, not necessarily. No. But of course it all comes down to the budget. Yeah. I used to, uh, when I had my heyday as a field archeologist, I was a surveyor and I'd get brought into projects to, uh, to go do all their surveying, to, uh, make topo maps of sites before they were excavated to plot out where they were going to put their trenches to map where they dug.
00:32:24
Speaker
after they finished digging it because they didn't have a surveyor. And then anytime they had anybody that did any kind of geophysical work, I would always be paired up with them to lay out their transects so they knew exactly where they had to go and then supply the map so that we could really precisely know where they had gone.
00:32:44
Speaker
Again, for me, it's a slightly different perspective. For me, it was always something in the background. But back to your point about the training. For me, it was only ever on the job training. I never had a class. It was always mentioned. We all were aware of these tools, though apparently I wasn't aware of susceptibility.
00:33:04
Speaker
We're all aware of these tools and we basically knew who we could find out that could come out to do them for us or how much it would cost if we wanted to get the rig and do it ourselves. But yeah, it wasn't taught in any kind of systematic way. I sure hope that's changed a bit. Now, that might be a little bit because I was in a PhD program and like you ran last week.
00:33:26
Speaker
I don't mean rant in a bad way, but as you were complaining last week, and rightfully so, is that grad school, a lot of places, and PhD, level two, tend to deal with things like theory much more than they do the actual practicum of how we're going to go about doing our work.
00:33:46
Speaker
What you were complaining about really reflected my experience. I feel like I ramped up pretty quickly while I was in the field. Yeah, if you don't have that sort of inclination, if you don't have that sort of background, it's all just tech words that don't mean anything and then don't inform your work and you miss out on ways of improving in speed or accuracy or in a variety of different ways that you could reinterpret the data by not knowing about these tools.
00:34:13
Speaker
Yeah, that nails it. That nails it right there. And that's why we study. That's why we read articles. That's why we do things is not just to find out about cultural histories and things like that, but as professionals, what are the best ways to do that? You know, what are the best ways to get the data out? And the other thing that I want to talk about here, and I'm going to mention a little bit about susceptibility survey, uh, is obviously the best way to do archeology is as non-destructive as possible, because if you're going to look at this from a preservation standpoint, the best way to preserve something is to never dig it up.
00:34:43
Speaker
But you have to know, you have to kind of know what's there in order to do that. And the reason we have cultural histories and we know stuff about cultures is because we've been able to analyze the artifacts and features that we have excavated. But like I said, realistically, we would rather just not do that.
00:34:59
Speaker
and leave those things in the ground. Because if we're able to preserve them, mark them off so that you can excavate. Or one thing I heard when I was in grad school is the best way to preserve a buried archaeological site is to put a Walmart over the top of it. Because as long as you know it's still there, and it's not going down too deep when they build the footprint, is it's never going to get excavated again. I kind of don't necessarily agree with that, because I feel like we gain more information from actually learning about it, if there's a way that we could do that without excavating.
00:35:28
Speaker
Great, but we don't have the resolution to do that without excavating right now. We have very fuzzy resolution. But I envision a time in the future when we have a CT scan-like thing that we can pull out and just scan the ground and see buried projectile points, pot sherds, things like that, and really identify them without actually excavating them. I mean, it's just different densities and different materials, and it's really just about coming up with a handheld device that can do that.
00:35:52
Speaker
I'm pretty sure we could do something like that if we could get an equipment like a CT scanner out in the field in the desert or in the forest to actually do that, but we can't. Well, even if you could, even if that magic equipment existed, you would still have the problem that the authors of this paper lead in with, which is that the forest cover.
00:36:12
Speaker
in many places, you have that same problem. And so then you would probably have to go to your not so great whiz bang future CT scanner, but your future equivalent of that susceptibility scanner to try to do your rough survey to then know where you can take your fine grained CT scanner.
00:36:33
Speaker
All right. OK, well, let's take a break. And I want to come back and talk about magnetic susceptibility just for a minute. And then we'll we'll have an update on one of the apps we talked about in a previous episode back in a second.
00:36:46
Speaker
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00:37:06
Speaker
Welcome back to the Archaeotech podcast, episode 128. And we are finishing up our discussion from an advances article that's linked within the show notes using multi-stage magnetic survey and excavation to assess community settlement organization, basically. But I wanted to just talk about magnetic susceptibility real quick because Paul and I had not really heard that term. I actually thought that they were using another word for resistivity, but it looks like they're not because resistivity is a little bit different in that you usually put
00:37:35
Speaker
I think, two probes in the ground, run a current through them. And then essentially, for lack of a better way to phrase this, you're using another device to read the anomalies that that current intercepts when they're going through those two probes. So it's like you were to put your tongue on a 9-volt battery for the end of the 9-volt battery. You're basically shoving two probes from an ohm meter into the ground and finding the resistance between those two probes.
00:38:02
Speaker
Much better way to say that. Yes. So you move those probes around. Theoretically, areas with different resistance or higher resistance are going to be somewhere that there's a quote anomaly. I mean, you don't know what it is, but if you gather enough data in a certain area based on that and you say, hey, every time we have this amount of resistance with this probe distance, it's this. Then you can start building that library of data. They do that with GPR all the time. Good, good GPR people, ground penetrating radar,
00:38:31
Speaker
they can look at anomalies and parabolas that they see on the um on the gpr data and knowing a little bit about the area where they're in and the the dissected kind of features and things they might find you know they might not be they might not be too keen on saying i know exactly what this is but they probably know exactly what that is
00:38:50
Speaker
But they're probably not going to say it out loud, but they've seen 10,000 of them and it's always this, right? So it's basically machine learning, but for your brain. So anyway, just from the article here, I wanted to give just a little bit of an explanation of what it sounds like magnetic susceptibility is because one of the things they showed in figure five was they're basically looking at discolored soil. And if you've ever dug in sand before, especially wet sand,
00:39:16
Speaker
middens and post holes and hearth features, they all show up darker in color because they're an occupation and it's just different from the surrounding sand. So they show up darker in color and that darker color is often created by usually some sort of charcoal remains or something like that. So something was burned, whatever.
00:39:37
Speaker
So, and that has an inherent magnetic property as well. There's iron in that content and that's what they're finding with these magnetometry and resistivity or sorry, susceptibility surveys. And again, that goes back to understanding what you're looking for and what could be there. Like I wouldn't do a magnetometry survey out here in the high desert because
00:39:59
Speaker
chances are I'm not going to find anything. There's probably bedrock four centimeters under the ground and I'm not going to find anything using that survey. But I might find something if I use ground penetrating radar, for example, because if I'm in an area with a little bit more soil,
00:40:15
Speaker
Maybe I'll find something there. I don't really know. But anyway, the point is I wanted to explain a susceptibility survey just from what their explanation is here in the article. Magnetometers, to back that up a little bit, basically every single one I've seen is essentially a meter and a half or so wide PVC pipe setup with basically two probes that are in each one of these downward facing vertical pipes. And you've got a horizontal one with the equipment on it where you're reading
00:40:41
Speaker
what you're doing or you're gathering your readings. And essentially it's driving a current or reading the current, I guess, that the earth's magnetic field is generating and things that are magnetic under the ground or interacting with that or disturbing that magnetic field and you're reading that disturbance. That's my basic understanding of magnetometry. It involves the earth's magnetic field and you're reading that disturbance or that change in the magnetic field caused by the thing that the field passed through, right? It's very,
00:41:09
Speaker
Very hard to, um, and in the earth's magnetic field is very, very weak for all intents and purposes. So if you're wearing like a watch, like an Apple watch, or you got your phone in your pocket, you're probably going to affect the results. But so you gotta be careful with things like that. Steel toe boots probably is not a good plan. That pretty well tracks with my understanding of how it works. And, uh, anytime we did magnetometry,
00:41:28
Speaker
you know, make sure that we have shoes that don't have, you know, metal grommets and make sure that we don't wear a metal belt buckle and, you know, just removing all metal objects from, from whoever was holding that equipment. Yeah. A regular compass is a good example of that. I usually hold my compass in my left hand. And when I started wearing an Apple watch three or four years ago, I kept noticing that my transects were off, didn't even realize it. Cause I also wear my watch on my left arm and it was deflecting my compass. Once I figured it out, I could put it near there.
00:41:58
Speaker
And my Apple watch was deflecting my compass by five to 10 degrees. Oh wow. And yeah, so now I use my compass in my right hand and I've just, I've just, you know, worked over into that when I do use my compass. So, um, yeah, little things like that. You don't really think about. So anyway, the magnetic susceptibility
00:42:14
Speaker
seems like it's basically, it's basically reading a similar thing, except it's, it's doing a little more intentionally. Um, you're taking this probe, jamming it into the ground and you are creating a magnetic field and essentially enhancing what would be like the earth's magnetic field, but you're creating magnetic field and then re reading that. So you're seeing, um, you're seeing in a little more intentional way what the susceptibility of the thing is under the ground to that, um, to that magnetic field using a field coil. So.
00:42:44
Speaker
You're just making a bigger magnetic field. Right. So things that are higher and higher in content, for example, like your example where people had been doing things, burning things, booping, whatever people do, are going to be more susceptible to that magnetic field and therefore register as an anomaly. And one of the things they said that they did on this survey is that they would
00:43:06
Speaker
They would take a reading, actually they would take two readings for every stopping point and then between they would reset, recalibrate their equipment back to zero. So they're looking, the fact of that the sandy soil doesn't have much iron content, didn't really matter. That became just the background level and any place that had a higher content for whatever reason then became an anomaly.
00:43:31
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, the other thing too is, uh, these methods, like the, uh, susceptibility doesn't go that deep, uh, says they were measuring with the field coil, um, down to about 10 centimeters, I think it says here. Yeah. Yeah. 10 centimeters. Yeah. Yeah. Best. So you got to keep that in mind too. If you're, if you've got a really deeply buried site that you're looking at, then ground penetrating radar might be a better thing to go with. Um, if you've got things that you think could be read by a ground penetrating radar.
00:43:59
Speaker
Yeah, I would think it wouldn't work at all if you're dealing with something like you're a Europeanist and you're working on something that's under a plow zone. I don't think it would go through that.
00:44:08
Speaker
Yeah, it might not. Which makes me wonder too, just from a physics standpoint, if you had a much stronger magnetic field that you could generate, would you be able to go deeper or is it just going to blur everything out and the change in the magnetic field is not enough to be read by the instrument? You know what I mean? If you're just blasting out this super strong magnetic field, maybe the thing that's deflecting that field is not deflecting enough to be measured when it's that powerful. I don't know. No idea. Yeah.
00:44:38
Speaker
Well, anyway, uh, I just wanted to explain that a little bit because for some reason, uh, neither of us had heard of this, but they've got references going back quite a few years on, uh, presumably this technique. So who knows? I don't know. Anyway, any other thoughts on this article, Paul, before we move on to something else?
00:44:55
Speaker
No, I think that, um, again, I, uh, I was simultaneously very much liking it and also thinking, okay, well they just kind of stated the obvious, but you know, again, if I look at it in the point of view of, uh, of hypothesis testing and I look at it from the point of view of, I learned about a kind of test that I never knew existed. Great. Yeah. It was good. It's a success for me. Absolutely. And I'm glad that we decided to talk about it because, uh, you know, we've been going for a good 45 minutes now about this one article that, uh,
00:45:25
Speaker
That's fun. Again, that's why I come on to do these things. That's
Chris' Experience with Microsoft Soundscape
00:45:30
Speaker
right. That's right. Okay, so let's shift gears a little bit here and talk about an app that I discussed, I want to say last time on the podcast, the Microsoft Soundscape app. Now, from what I understand, this only works if you have an augmented reality device. I don't think your phone will actually do it, but I can't actually, don't quote me on that. I mean, it's free, so download it and see if you want to do it.
00:45:55
Speaker
Some of the automated reality devices out there, Bose makes a few of them. And I was really talking about this because I've got the new Bose Frames sunglasses that have speakers in the arm. But they also have basically a motion sensor within the glasses that know where you are in space. It doesn't matter what direction your phone is. You can throw it in your backpack or throw it in your pocket or whatever. And the glasses know what direction they're facing because they have a compass and a motion sensor.
00:46:22
Speaker
Now, going back to what we were just talking about with magnetic fields is real interesting because I kind of forgot when I turned this thing on yesterday, because honestly, I hadn't used it much, except for when I first downloaded it more as a novelty. But when I went to use it yesterday,
00:46:36
Speaker
The first thing it had me do when I connected my sunglasses to the app, once I turned the app on, was take my sunglasses off and basically just shake them around a little bit, rotate them through the Earth's magnetic field so it could figure out where it was in space because it didn't know until what it was in that mode. It has to read the magnetic field of the Earth to understand, okay, where am I and what am I doing? You don't want to do that kind of thing when you're actually driving. You should do that when you're stopped because you're affecting yourself through the magnetic field.
00:47:05
Speaker
So anyway, I had to do that. And then I had a friend's address and I was just dropping something off at his house and I never actually been to his house before somebody I work with in the civil air patrol. We're always meeting at our headquarters or somewhere else. And just never came up to go over to his house, but I had to drop something off over there.
00:47:21
Speaker
And so I thought, well, let me try this. And I turned it on. And just to recap on how it works, it's called an audio beacon, which is kind of a cool concept. So you can enter in a place that's in their place list, you know, common things like, you know, just lists of stores and features and stuff like that. Or you can enter an address, which is what I did.
00:47:40
Speaker
when you enter the address in, it starts doing this. Um, first off, it tells you that your audio beacon, uh, is, you know, it was like 3.2 miles away or something like that. It was on the other side of Reno. So, um, said like 3.2 miles away and.
00:47:55
Speaker
Here's the kind of cool thing. If you're having a hard time visualizing this, what it's basically doing the equivalent of is dropping a pin over his house or whatever address you set in and then setting off a beacon. Like if you didn't have headphones on, let's just pretend like it was a lighthouse or something like that. You're seeing this beacon off in the distance and you're just navigating towards it, except you're doing it from an auditory standpoint.
00:48:18
Speaker
What it was doing was every so often when I would change roads, it knew when I changed roads and it would say now traveling north on Rock Boulevard, it would just tell me where I'm at, something like that. And then it would periodically, I think like every quarter mile or so, it would say audio beacon is 2.6 miles away. Audio beacon is 2.3 miles away, something like that. If I passed a known
00:48:39
Speaker
place or feature. It didn't do it for every single one of them, but every once in a while it would say, you know, this church is on your right or this thing is over here or something like that. So it would just give me little guides to tell me, Hey, I know where you're at and here's where you should be looking around. Cause there's no map on the screen. Keep in mind, I'm just doing this from audible sounds within the app, but the main sounds besides those auditory
00:49:02
Speaker
verbal, I should say, um, clues was the actual beacon. So I was hearing this ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And if it was off to my left or off to my front left, I could hear that in that area. Like if it was off to my right, but slightly forward, I heard that like off to the right and slightly forward. And if I looked in that direction,
00:49:22
Speaker
The, the beacon would change to a ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And, and it wouldn't wouldn't do that constantly. It would just do that and then stop for a minute and then do that and then stop and then do that. Um, so it wasn't constant. I mean, it was relatively constant. I wouldn't want to go 200 miles with this thing on drive. You wouldn't say.
00:49:40
Speaker
But it was kind of cool. It was really, it was really interesting. And I think, honestly, I think it would have taken me a minute to actually hit the destination because I knew what street he was on because I punched in the address and we got to the cross street. I knew that I was supposed to turn and there's a decent chance that I would have driven right past it had I not known that street was there and then heard the beacon go behind me and I would have had to turn around and then, you know, go back and retrace my steps a little bit.
00:50:07
Speaker
But for the most part, it was a really cool technology. Now I was looking at it, not as more of a, you know, an actual navigation device in town, although I think it'll be really cool bicycling with something like that. Because unless you've, even if you've got your phone on your handlebars where you can look down and see it, a lot of times my phone just goes dark because I didn't turn off the screen saver feature. And then you've got to un, you know, you've got to turn it back on and you know, I've got face ID on my iPhone. So then I've got to look at it.
00:50:32
Speaker
and I'm trying to drive down the street on my bicycle. I mean, that's just recipe for chaos, right? So the flip side of that for me is I usually use my watch as well when I need to navigate with direction so I can just pull my arm up and then see where I need to go. That being said, having this in a slower environment, going shorter distances on my bicycle, I think it would be a really cool thing to experience. And I'm looking, I haven't done that yet, but I'm looking forward to trying it. And I think that would work. But then taking this into a broader context of the field,
00:51:02
Speaker
Man, when you're just out there walking in the desert or walking in a forest, when you don't have any streets, you don't have any other things to distract you and you really are just walking in a direction like following a compass bearing, this is super cool. I really can see the applicability of it and I wish they had the ability to drop a point on a map and then shut your phone off and navigate to that audio beacon that you just dropped on a map. But right now it's just an address. I haven't tried dropping coordinates in yet. I don't know if that'll work. If that does work,
00:51:30
Speaker
Super cool, but either way. Oh, one other point. I did notice that it has a, if I had to guess, cause I didn't measure it, probably about a 15 degree arc where it's going to give you the dead heading, right? Um, so it's not crazy high resolution, but it's good enough if you're three or four miles away and you're trying to get in the general direction that you seem to be going. Cause I was testing that by moving my head around and seeing when it updated to the, you're pointing it in the right direction.
00:51:57
Speaker
It was pretty close. It was pretty close and got tighter when I got closer to the thing. So kind of a neat deal. So you were wondering if you had to have an AR device. And is iPhone 8 an AR device? I can't remember. Anyhow, I just downloaded it from the Apple Store on my iPhone 8. And you may have heard a little bit of the audio bleed through because I turned it on and it immediately starts talking. I had to quit out. Nice.
00:52:23
Speaker
So it looks like it'll work on this, and I think I'll play with it. One thing that I think about with this isn't practical in the sense of walking a transect like we've discussed, but it would be practical for hikers. If you're going through woods and there are multiple different paths, you could go and be nice if you could, say, keep me on the yellow trail.
00:52:49
Speaker
With streets, it knows which is a one-way. I'm sure it knows from Google Maps or Microsoft Bing or any other online maps. I'm sure it can determine whether this is one-way or two-way.
00:53:01
Speaker
where you should turn and so on, but I don't think it would have that for most places where you'd go hiking. But I would like that too, if you could say, you know, take me on the blue trail or take me to this point and then, you know, you plot it out on the map before you go and then you can just go for your hike and not have to pay too much attention for the trail markers.
00:53:24
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned, sorry, a couple of thoughts on that. So you mentioned the iPhone eight, whether or not that's an AR device. I know some of the iPhones and obviously some of the Samsung or I mean, not Samsung, but, uh, Android phones as well are AR.
00:53:39
Speaker
compatible, which means you're actually looking through the camera and it's displaying things on your camera. Um, and that's where the, uh, the air comes in. But what I meant more specifically was, you know, just actually shutting your phone, shutting your screen off, throw it in your pocket and using audible signals. So AR, audible AR really rather than visual AR. Yeah. Well, the first thing that comes when you turn this, uh, this app on is it tells you to put in your headphones.
00:54:03
Speaker
Yes, very, very audible related. But yeah, that's what I was wondering too is I'm not, I don't know if it's designed to work with devices. Like if you were just using your phone, that is the device that is going to be, you'd have to have your phone out and pointing in the right direction.
00:54:19
Speaker
for it to know what it's going on, if it's using that. Yeah. Cause otherwise it's using the, it's using the GPS, not GPS, but it's using the digital compass in my actual sunglasses and my Bose headphones would do the same thing. So, um, so from that standpoint, it needs that to shut the screen off, but yeah, I don't know if it's going to work otherwise, but you know, this is just technology that these guys are using. They didn't invent it. Microsoft scoundstapes didn't invent this. They're using something that the Bose put into their, uh, in these particular devices.
00:54:46
Speaker
which means anybody can do that. So if Bose put that into these sunglasses, it makes me wonder if that's going to open up for other people thinking about that. Because like, for example, what you were saying, the all trails app, we use that all the time for hiking.
00:54:59
Speaker
And it would be super easy for them to just add this AR functionality and say here, instead of having an audio beacon, lock onto this route and check it every once in a while. Don't check it all the time, but every once in a while, maybe check in and, and see whether, whether or not you're on the route or not. I mean, there's, there's definitely been plenty of times when we were not on the route.
00:55:24
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's the nice thing about the sunglasses. They're not in your ears. You know, it really is. It really is kind of just like out there. It's, it's such an indescribable feeling to be able to hear sound, but not have them in your ears and to be able to hear your environment.
00:55:39
Speaker
your brain really, really tunes to that real fast. Um, and, um, it's very interesting. Yeah. Very interesting. So yeah. Should we wrap this one up?
00:55:50
Speaker
I think so. I think so. So that was, uh, that was good. If anybody's used any of these AR apps like, or has the Bose frames, I mean, they're relatively new, so I doubt it, but it'd be interesting to hear your feedback on some of that stuff. And then also feedback on, you know, any sort of, uh, geophysical or shallow geophysical techniques you've used out in the field. We wouldn't mind talking to you about it on the podcast as well. Yeah, definitely.
00:56:12
Speaker
So, all right. Well, thanks everybody. And thanks Paul for, uh, for taking a deep dive on this one and bringing it up here. And it was a good, good article. We'll have some, some great interviews coming up in the next couple of months, but again, get on our schedule, go over to the website, find the schedule and interview link, or talk to our producer, which we can put you in touch with and, uh, or email us, Twitter us, tweet us. Did I say Twitter us? Um, yeah, tweet us something like that. It's all in the show notes for the podcast and we'll get you on the show. So thanks a lot. And thanks again, Paul.
00:56:42
Speaker
Thanks Chris. Take care. Wash your hands.
00:56:50
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Archaeotech Podcast. Links to items mentioned on the show are in the show notes at www.archpodnet.com slash archaeotech. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com and paulatlugol.com. Support the show by becoming a member at archpodnet.com slash members. The music is a song called Off Road and is licensed free from Apple. Thanks for listening.
00:57:15
Speaker
This show is produced and recorded by the Archaeology Podcast Network, Chris Webster and Tristan Boyle in Reno, Nevada at the Reno Collective. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.
00:57:36
Speaker
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