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Trust is Everything: How Baltimore City PD embraces wellness
11 Plays15 days ago
In this episode, Crawford Coates speaks with Director Vernon Herron, Director of Officer Safety and Wellness at Baltimore City Police Department. Director Herron's leadership has turned that agency into an example of what works: embracing trust, wellness as the foundation of good work, lessons from his years on the job, and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Book Inspiration
00:00:01
Crawford Coates
Hi, this is Crawford with the mindful responder podcast, and I'm here with director Vernon Heron of the Baltimore city police department. Hi, how are you doing today, Vernon?
00:00:12
Vernon Herron
Yeah, good morning. Good morning. Thank you very much. I'm doing fine, Crawford. Happy New Year. And to all your listeners.
00:00:18
Crawford Coates
Well, thank you for joining me today. Um, I recently wrote a review of your book for police one, and I thought it was just a fantastic book.
00:00:29
Crawford Coates
One of the things I liked so much about it was, um, your, your ability to tell your story, but, but make it accessible to, I think anybody who's, who's reading it. And also I think you, you really understand the mentality and what it's like to start out as a police officer and, and some of the challenges of that. Um, Do you want to tell folks about the book and sort of how you came about writing it?
00:00:53
Vernon Herron
Yeah, ah so I um had been tossing this idea around for years and and I spoke to my youngest daughter, who was a writer in New York, and and she says, oh, why don't you put this book together?
Addressing Police Trauma and Mental Health
00:01:09
Vernon Herron
And I says, I really don't have time. She said, listen, just start recording things and send them to me. Let's see what happens. So I did that. Thank you, Rachel Heron. And ah she started sending me back ah manuscripts and so forth. And I would edit them and read them. And once I read the final product, um I was very pleased with it. Now, there was at least one thing in the book that I hadn't shared with anyone since it happened. And ah i I knew I had to tell my wife before the book was published. So one day when I thought it was a good time, I told her she completely broke down and started crying.
00:01:47
Vernon Herron
um but But I think in order for me to write the weight of the badge, which is the title of the book, that I had to be completely transparent, that I couldn't leave anything out. When I when i speak around the country, I tell people, listen, we all have been impacted different ways in our lives while a police officer or before we became a police officer.
00:02:10
Vernon Herron
But the most important thing is to you know get ah the help you need with a mental health clinician to help you know ah process that trauma.
Vernon's Background and Motivation
00:02:21
Vernon Herron
So as you move into your career, you know your trauma just won't keep adding up and before you know it, you're self-medicating or having a mental health breakdown.
00:02:33
Crawford Coates
<unk> That's great. it's sort of a good preview of the book too, because I don't want to give anything away, but sort of the way you lay it out is that you start out with your your childhood, um and then you you're how you ended up working for the fbi and then maryland state police and then the city um and then at the end you have this you have ah at least one chapter where you're talking about some of the ways that you've you've tried to make yourself whole and deal with this trauma
00:03:00
Vernon Herron
Yes. So, yeah. So I grew up in East St. Louis, Illinois. um it It is a city with a lot of challenges, but it is my hometown. I believe where we grew up and the people that we are around helps to shape us ah as we move forward into our lives. And, you know, East St. Louis has a lot of crime. um I can walk a block away from my house and see a a pimp or a prostitute or a drug dealer.
00:03:30
Vernon Herron
um For a long time, Crawford, I thought everybody lived in communities like that. So I knew after my my best friend was killed in the streets of East St.
00:03:36
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:03:42
Vernon Herron
Louis that I needed to get out. And that started my journey to, you know, apply for law enforcement agencies like the FBI.
00:03:45
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:03:51
Vernon Herron
And they sent me out to Washington, D.C.
00:03:54
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Well, it's a fascinating story that you tell. You know, Vernon, um when I first met you, it was at the Concerns of Police Survivors right outside of Chicago.
00:04:05
Crawford Coates
And I think I've told you this before. I don't know. But one of the things that struck me about you is, unlike a lot of police instructors that were there or just people that I've met, and I don't want to put this in a way that's offensive anyway, but you're not trying to be liked by everybody, i would is how I would put it. You have a very strong message and you stay on point. And it's something that personally I just I immediately respected about you, because especially I've heard you talk about substance abuse and the challenges that it raises for new police officers.
00:04:39
Crawford Coates
And I think you do maybe a better job about dealing with those issues head on than anybody I've ever heard before.
00:04:47
Vernon Herron
Thank you.
Implementing Wellness Programs
00:04:48
Vernon Herron
So, you know, listen, ah Crawford, one of the things that I really wanted to, my goal when I when i speak in public forums and so forth, and, you know, ive i I've been in New York City twice, California, I've been all over the country.
00:04:57
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:05:03
Vernon Herron
And in fact, I did a a lecture for the Scotland Police Authority. ah When I really, yes, when I really delved into this thing about police trauma,
00:05:15
Vernon Herron
And then I started reflecting on the troopers and other police officers I worked with over the years. Some of them became alcoholics. Some of them committed suicide. Some of them lost their jobs.
00:05:27
Vernon Herron
It just, it it connected the dots for me. Like, wait a minute. You know, we do a thorough investigation on all our applicants, um physical, mental, background checks. And and these applicants are as squeaky clean as squeaky clean can be.
00:05:45
Vernon Herron
And then within five years, um they started to change.
00:05:45
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:05:50
Vernon Herron
and and And for years, we as police executives have blamed the individual, you know, thinking, hey, maybe we missed something in their background.
00:05:50
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:05:58
Vernon Herron
But as I look ah further into you know trauma and law enforcement, I realize that it is not the police officer that that has the issue. It is us. It is the police his executives because we have known for decades that trauma and law enforcement leads to the things that I mentioned.
00:06:21
Vernon Herron
But you know when I was in the police academy, i had and I didn't have one minute of health and wellness or trauma in law enforcement, anything like that.
00:06:27
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:06:32
Vernon Herron
And whether we just buried our heads in the sand and just you know thought we would just you know ignore it, but we are losing way too many police officers. to alcoholism, ah to suicide, and something needs to be done. And the only way to do it, i guess, is to wake up those of managers or police executives who have the power to do something.
00:06:56
Vernon Herron
And you know when a police officer commits suicide, you know we all come together and like we tell the ah the loved ones, if there's something we can do, you know let us know. And that's all well and good, but there is something we can do long before that police officer starts to drink in excess or pick up a firearm and kill themselves. And it starts at day one with educating our employees.
00:07:22
Crawford Coates
that's not a very fun message. And and I think that's sort of what I was alluding to is that you're afraid, you're you're not afraid to tell these, these stark truths that I think, you know, I'll just tell you, um Vernon, sometimes I want to call you director here, and sometimes for an I'm sorry, but I'll call you
00:07:37
Vernon Herron
That's okay. Yeah.
00:07:37
Crawford Coates
Vernon's what I'm used to at this point. So, um, I've heard folks, I've heard police trainers tell folks, um, you know, you need to be very careful about this drinking and and drugs and so forth, because it's actually, you know, it can be both.
00:07:39
Vernon Herron
yeah
00:07:51
Crawford Coates
Um, and then, and then after that, at the end of the training day, they're at the hotel bar hanging out, you know, just like a mixed message there.
00:07:51
Vernon Herron
Right.
00:07:57
Vernon Herron
Right. Right.
00:08:01
Crawford Coates
And it's not being taken because it's a lethal, it's lethal.
00:08:01
Vernon Herron
Absolutely.
00:08:05
Crawford Coates
and And, you know, I think the other thing that I've seen is some departments will say, well, we don't have that problem here. Somebody else has that problem, but we don't.
00:08:16
Crawford Coates
But, you know, it's true that some departments may have more of one type of issue than another department does. But universally. um you're You're absolutely right. These recruits come in and they're in tip top shape.
00:08:30
Crawford Coates
They pass the physical the the physical background, the psychological background. They're ready to serve. They're excited. And something happens within five to 10 years that you've really picked up on.
00:08:41
Vernon Herron
Yeah, it's is is is's sort of like sending a police officer out on patrol without a gun and a badge. You know, this tool of of of informing them what can happen to them once they start to experience trauma or not, or have unresolved trauma that they haven't reconciled is dangerous.
00:09:02
Vernon Herron
and and and And these young men and women, they have made a oath to protect the citizens of the cities or communities they work in. And we have fallen short with not protecting them.
00:09:15
Vernon Herron
You know, so listen, it is important for ah for everyone to understand that you know As police officers get into their their daily routine and so forth, they start seeing things. And some of these officers come from ah backgrounds where they've never been exposed anything like this.
00:09:34
Vernon Herron
I mean, we had an officer who was working at Chick-fil-A last year. and and And once he joined the police department, one of his first calls was a seven-year-old homicide victim.
00:09:47
Vernon Herron
And he completely lost it. and And he
Confidentiality and Trust in Wellness Programs
00:09:50
Vernon Herron
was not used to seeing that. And and thank God we...
00:09:53
Crawford Coates
Which is the healthy, which is the healthy response, right?
00:09:54
Vernon Herron
i
00:09:56
Vernon Herron
Right, exactly.
00:09:57
Crawford Coates
I mean, yeah.
00:09:58
Vernon Herron
It's a healthy response, yeah.
00:09:59
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:10:00
Vernon Herron
Yeah.
00:10:00
Crawford Coates
yeah
00:10:00
Vernon Herron
And you know what? I'm glad you said that because I had senior police officers on scene, like something's wrong with this person. They're not cut out for this.
00:10:06
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:10:07
Vernon Herron
You know, i said, hey, listen, that is a healthy response to get emotional. I mean, he did his job. He attempted to save the young girl's life and he couldn't. But, you know, once he was done, he stood up and he just broke down.
00:10:19
Vernon Herron
and and And when I met with them, I personally went out on the scene and met with them and said, listen, what you ah if you were not impacted by this, then I would be concerned about you ah your future.
00:10:33
Vernon Herron
Because those officers who absorb all this information, all this trauma, and then they pretend like it doesn't impact them, you know one day when they least expect that something happens and they lose it.
00:10:41
Crawford Coates
Wow.
00:10:46
Vernon Herron
And it all didn't start that one day. There's there's a history of accumulation of of trauma, vicarious trauma that that really impacts these officers. So yes, on the first day in Baltimore City Police, a recruit gets two hours of health and wellness.
00:11:01
Vernon Herron
ah Within ah ah three weeks, once he or she gets into the academy class, they get another two hours. And they they understand before they walk across that stage and get their their badge and their diploma that, listen, an important tool in your toolbox, in addition to your gun and your badge and all of this ah knowledge we give you is you have to take care of yourself.
00:11:29
Vernon Herron
And we inform them to to let their significant others know that that Baltimore City Police has a very, very comprehensive wellness program, but it's not worth two cents unless you actually reach out and use it.
00:11:30
Crawford Coates
Mm
00:11:44
Crawford Coates
hmm. Well, and and that's our that's another question i want to ask you about, because I think that Baltimore City Police has one of the best wellness programs in the country. And you manage that, the after officer safety and wellness section. Do you want to talk a little bit about some of the programs that you offer there and your time there, Vernon?
00:12:06
Vernon Herron
Yeah, so so before I get into let me say this. It was not a easy road to travel.
00:12:09
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:12:10
Vernon Herron
When we started this officer safety and wellness unit, and can remember going out to roll calls and teaching an academy. And to be honest with you, a lot of officers came up to me and said, you know, listen, I appreciate what you're saying, but this department is not going to allow us to get help and not punish us.
00:12:32
Vernon Herron
and ah and And as I reflected on what they were saying, it's like, you know what, we have disciplined these officers to the point where they don't think that we can offer help.
00:12:33
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:12:42
Vernon Herron
So it took a while. It took a moment. and And one of the things that the commissioners agreed is that if somebody came forward and needed assistance in officer safety and wellness, would be confidential.
00:12:53
Vernon Herron
um that information would not be shared. If they came forward and said, hey, I have a drinking problem and I need some help, ah that information is confidential. We'll get them to help and you know get them the appropriate FMLA leave in order to get paid while they're away in in in in detox or drug problem, whatever the case may be.
00:13:15
Vernon Herron
Officers need to know that there's a safe place.
00:13:15
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:13:17
Vernon Herron
So I think we've created this atmosphere where when a police employee contacts us, they know that they can open up about all the issues. And, you know, listen, we have 24 hour ah ah mental health hotline.
00:13:33
Vernon Herron
We have a health and wellness partner, Harbor of Grace, which specializes in treating police officers. We've sent maybe 300 police officers there from everything from alcohol abuse, drug abuse, anxiety, and other stresses associated with police work.
00:13:54
Vernon Herron
We have 77 trained peer support members that if we get a call from an employee or a supervisor, we can put them in contact with ah with a peer support member.
00:13:55
Crawford Coates
Wow.
00:14:06
Vernon Herron
And unlike the years past in Baltimore, when they would have an officer involved in a shooting, they are being involved in a shooting on Monday and it can be a fatal shooting. And on Wednesday, they're back at work.
00:14:19
Vernon Herron
Those days are gone. So we respond, our team responds. We we actually talk with that officer. We give them 10 days administrative leave.
00:14:29
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:14:31
Vernon Herron
We provide them counseling. Before they can come back to work, they had to come back to my office. And we have a list of questions that we ask them about their sleeping habits, their eating habits, their drinking habits, and things of that nature. And we will slowly transition them back into
Changing Department Culture
00:14:48
Vernon Herron
the workforce.
00:14:49
Vernon Herron
And so ah the days when an officer would, you know, it's not like television, you know, want somebody to the detective shows on television when officers be involved in a shooting a Monday and on Tuesday they're back at work. ah That doesn't really happen in real world. yeah We want to make sure these officers process this trauma in a healthy way and they understand all the resources that we have for them to help them process that trauma.
00:15:19
Crawford Coates
Mm hmm. Yeah, it's really interesting. One of the first things you said is that folks thought that they they basically they were telling you, we don't trust the administration. So I think what I what I'm hearing is that one of the first things you had to do was work hard to establish that trust.
00:15:35
Vernon Herron
Absolutely. And every department who wants to really um have a successful wellness program, ah they have to build up that that trust with the officers because no one is going to come forward and tell you what's bothering them if they think that they're going to generate an internal affairs number or their career is going to be over.
00:15:43
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:15:57
Vernon Herron
I mean, that's the way it was when I came up to the state police. mean, if you had any um ah weaknesses um kinks in your armor, ah ah they would actually put you on the sideline.
00:16:11
Vernon Herron
I mean, they did not want to have you out there a patrolling or anything in that nature. So we so all suffered in silence and and that's not healthy.
00:16:20
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:16:22
Vernon Herron
So I talked to police chiefs and sheriffs who really want to start a program. And I said, yeah the first thing that you need to be committed to is allowing your employees to come forward in a confidential manner and not be disciplined because they say they have some personal issues.
00:16:42
Vernon Herron
Doesn't mean that they can no longer be a police officer. You know, police officers like, you know, doctors and lawyers. I mean, they we everyone gets stressed out. But the difference is a police officer has to make a split second decision.
00:16:51
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:16:56
Vernon Herron
when they go out in the street and and they can't be distracted by some other issue that's going on in their life. Our job is to make sure that we identify them early.
00:17:07
Vernon Herron
We help them reconcile that issue. So when they go out into the streets of Baltimore, that they're they're laser focused and they have no other distractions.
00:17:19
Crawford Coates
That's great. and and You know, I think Baltimore City is ah is a place where there's there's a lot of, you know, it's it's an it's an active city and and having a police force that is not traumatized, that knows that they have a place to talk to, a person that they can trust.
00:17:37
Crawford Coates
It's one of those things that that prevents bad decisions um from from being made. And and as you say, you know, it's like that old, saw people say, ah hurt people hurt people, right?
00:17:49
Vernon Herron
Right, right. right
00:17:51
Crawford Coates
And it seems like what you're trying to do is get ahead of that.
00:17:55
Vernon Herron
Yes. So we've incorporated our early intervention program, which historically is used to identify bad behavior in officers. ah But in in lieu of bringing that officer in and judging them about what policy violation they made, we'll talk about them, about their wellness.
00:18:04
Crawford Coates
hmm. Mm
00:18:14
Vernon Herron
You know, hey, you know, how's everything at home? How are your finances? How is your significant others, your kids and so forth?
00:18:20
Crawford Coates
hmm.
00:18:21
Vernon Herron
So we want to make sure that, you know, listen, internal affairs is going to investigate whatever allegations out there.
00:18:22
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:18:27
Vernon Herron
Our job is to make sure that this employee doesn't trigger another complaint because they're not focused on on what they should be doing.
00:18:28
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:18:37
Vernon Herron
It is not easy. It took a while. The trust factor is something that's going to take take a while. and But the investment is really worth it.
00:18:46
Crawford Coates
Years. Yeah.
00:18:48
Vernon Herron
It's worth it. Yeah.
00:18:49
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:18:50
Vernon Herron
ah You know, I like to I like to say that, you know, today the crime in Baltimore is at its all time.
Impact of Wellness Programs on Crime Rates
00:18:58
Vernon Herron
low that it has been like yes you know in in several decades and i like to attribute that to like you know our officers are are going out and they're more focused they're they're you know they're healthier and and they're able to actually properly uh police the streets and and not fall a victim of sales of stress and things of that nature so it's important to understand that that
00:19:00
Crawford Coates
Oh, wow. Mm-hmm.
00:19:27
Vernon Herron
these men and women have put their lives, they put their lives on the line every day. And the very least we can do is provide them with immediate support when they need our help. And I got to tell you this, Garfield, I've been doing this for more than 40 years.
00:19:38
Crawford Coates
Yeah. Yes.
00:19:42
Vernon Herron
Um, And I rode with some police officers. I responded to some shootings. And some of the things that I saw, I was like, oh, my God. And these officers deal with these traumatic calls on a daily basis.
00:19:55
Vernon Herron
And they still get up and come back to work and go back out and do their thing.
00:19:57
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:19:59
Vernon Herron
Our job is to make sure that before they're glad they're, yeah I use the analogy of ah water in a bottle is stress and your your brain is a sponge.
00:20:00
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:20:11
Vernon Herron
You don't want to overwhelm your your your your sponge with stress because you're not going to be able to do your job. So we give every police recruit a a sponge the first day of training to remind them that they have to protect their sponge.
00:20:29
Crawford Coates
Yeah. Yes, it's so great. I mean, you need your police officers to behave like professionals and you know, you know what some of the occupational hazards of being a police officer or for that matter,
00:20:40
Crawford Coates
a a paramedic or a met or an EMT or a firefighter, they're they're all sort of swimming in the same water. And so one of the things that's so great about what you've done at Baltimore is to understand that this will happen based on personal experience, based on data, and then get ahead of it. And there's so much in your department. I mean, from having therapy dogs and, you know, buses that show up and and meet the the folks where they are to a robust peer support team to, you know, just taking the stigma out of it, making it anonymous and confidential.
00:21:14
Crawford Coates
I think it's really one of the best programs in the country that I've seen.
00:21:19
Vernon Herron
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, took a lot of work and and and we do have like 11 peer support dogs. um We have dedicated employees our peer support members are not all sworn police officers.
00:21:30
Vernon Herron
Some of them come from forensics or the professional staff members that say, hey, I want to help.
00:21:31
Crawford Coates
Hmm.
00:21:36
Vernon Herron
And, you know, trust me, when they respond to a police officer involved shooting, that police officer doesn't care if they're wearing a badge or a gun. They want that information. We make sure that that officer, before they go home, they have a confidential consultation with a mental health professional.
00:21:45
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:21:53
Vernon Herron
and that they get that mental health professional's phone number so they can follow up with them. you know i was involved in a shooting as ah as a state trooper. you know and you know Listen, we do all of this ah preparation on the range, you know learn how to shoot with accuracy and in all types of weather.
00:22:13
Vernon Herron
Not one time while I was in training did somebody say, by the way, if you're involved in a shooting, it might impact you personally.
Building Trust and Cultural Shifts
00:22:22
Vernon Herron
You know, and so when I was involved in a shooting and it started to bother me, not having the validation from the department that it was OK, I suffered in silence.
00:22:23
Crawford Coates
Yeah, and
00:22:34
Vernon Herron
And, you know, I leaned on alcohol and
00:22:35
Crawford Coates
you start to feel betrayed,
00:22:37
Vernon Herron
Yes, yes, yes. And and so I suffered in silence to the point where I realized that I did not get ah some help, that I was, um you know, I wasn't going to make it.
00:22:50
Vernon Herron
So, you know, I took that step on my own and got some help. and and And that was important for me. So when I talk to police employees, I want them to know that, and there's always someone in the audience who is struggling with alcoholism.
00:23:04
Vernon Herron
Because I've had them to send messages to me.
00:23:04
Crawford Coates
Yep.
00:23:07
Vernon Herron
Once I left the the training, they would call me or text me and say, listen, I just was in this class and I don't want to raise my hand, but i am I am suffering from alcoholism and I need some help.
00:23:20
Vernon Herron
And, you know, of course I give them the help, but, you know, i always ask them, well, I thought your your department had a wellness unit. And they would say yes, but I don't trust them. I believe there's a trap door in the wellness unit. So when I walk in there, somebody is going to hit a button and I'm going to fall in this trap door and my career is going to be over.
00:23:40
Vernon Herron
And it's unfortunate that you have a lot of police officers um ah ah in police departments that don't want to come forward because they're afraid of root the repercussions from management.
00:23:53
Crawford Coates
Absolutely. And I think what it's almost, it's almost to the, what you're saying is that part of the wellness, the whole wellness department, part of the the mandate there needs to be to change the whole culture of the agency to one where people aren't being, aren't afraid of coming forward and, aren't, you know, gossiping about what they they saw this person at a therapist's office. Hey, you know, so-and-so is going through a divorce.
00:24:17
Crawford Coates
That sort of gossip, and which is really unhealthy and not helpful, and which contributes to so much stress for law enforcement, um you know, changing that culture to one where we're human, we're fallible, but we all, we're all trying to get better.
00:24:35
Vernon Herron
Yeah, you listen, ah some of the comments I heard from some of the ah police commanders who've been here for a while was that this was bullshit.
00:24:46
Vernon Herron
You know i mean? That what is this health and wellness stuff? You know, I, you know, we're, we're babying these police officers and so forth. And, you know, what are we doing? What are we changing our police department to, you know?
00:24:58
Vernon Herron
They resisted it for a long time. And, and it wasn't until a, an officer had the intentional fortitude to come forward and said that he was struggling with alcoholism and had been for 17 years, right?
00:25:13
Vernon Herron
and And once we get that officer in treatment and once he went back to his district, he spread the word and said, hey, um I'm alcohol free right now. I'm recovering.
00:25:24
Vernon Herron
And I knew a lot of you. ah was in the same parking lot where I where i was drinking after work. So you can trust health and wellness.
00:25:32
Crawford Coates
Yep.
00:25:33
Vernon Herron
And once that that he became an ambassador for the Baltimore City Police Health and Wellness, I mean, the floodgates opened up. We started getting phone calls and emails and people started to, the they knew that that officer was away out of their workplace for 30 days.
00:25:51
Vernon Herron
He didn't lose his place in the department. He still had his same position when he came back. He did get an internal affairs number. and And today he is finishing his career as a Baltimore City police officer.
00:26:03
Vernon Herron
So one of the first things they tell him is that, no, no, yeah.
00:26:04
Crawford Coates
he didn't You didn't just throw them away. Yeah.
00:26:08
Vernon Herron
and And, you know, you talked about the culture. It really can't be a program. if you If you look at health and wellness as a program, you've already failed in your department. It has got to be a way of life in your department, just like ah everything else. It has got to be front and center.
00:26:26
Vernon Herron
The chief or the sheriff or the superintendent or whomever is leading in these department needs to say, listen, ah health and wellness is important. And I want you to utilize them because I want you to return to your civilian life after you're done working X amount of years in the same condition that we got you.
00:26:47
Vernon Herron
We don't want to be broken you know once you leave the police department.
Supporting Retired Officers
00:26:52
Crawford Coates
and that's And that's another thing that comes up a lot, Vernon, is is folks stepping into retirement. And I know you're you're thinking about doing that yourself. Congratulations. But it's often a very difficult transition transition from being an active police officer to then stepping into retirement.
00:27:02
Vernon Herron
Thank you. and
00:27:10
Crawford Coates
So is that something that you address at the in your department?
00:27:15
Vernon Herron
Yeah, so one of the things, one of our goals this year is to reach out to our retirees. ah we We just hired a mental health professional who's going to work here full time and focus on the mental health strategies that we need to share with our current employees and our retirees.
00:27:21
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:27:27
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:33
Vernon Herron
A lot of retirees that that are in Baltimore City Police Department, they never had access to wellness. So all the things that led to the alcoholism or the stress or and the suicide, they took that with them.
00:27:50
Vernon Herron
And they're out there trying to you know live a productive life. And it's just struggling with these ah traumatic events that occurred to them when they were in the Baltimore City Police Department.
00:28:01
Vernon Herron
So i've I've reached out to the the president of the FOP and the retirees and say, listen, oh we're going to make our services available to every police employee, whether here or gone. Some employees who are left really are struggling with alcoholism. So we've been able to at least get a couple of them into treatment.
00:28:25
Vernon Herron
And so it's important that, yes, ah you know, you know, I know we have a Veterans Administration for our our military veterans veterans, as we should, but we need a Veterans Administration for our police officers.
00:28:41
Vernon Herron
there needs to be a place that they do yeah There needs to be a place that they can go once they leave police work and and get the support they need in order to survive.
00:28:42
Crawford Coates
Well, that's really, yeah.
00:28:52
Crawford Coates
Yeah. It's so interesting. I was once in Phoenix, Arizona and I taught i met a ah retired cop from Chicago there. And I think he said that they have a a retired, like basically a a group of retired Chicago cops who get together and play play golf together in Phoenix. It was something like 600 members.
00:29:12
Vernon Herron
wow
00:29:13
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:29:14
Vernon Herron
Yeah.
00:29:15
Crawford Coates
And, you know, I mean, that's a healthy way to to get together and and blow off steam or playing golf. And that's what you hope for. But a lot of retired cops, as as you know, I mean, it's like they give everything to their career.
00:29:29
Crawford Coates
And at the same time, they're looking forward to that day when they retire. it's It's both. It's like, I want to be a cop. It's who I am. And also I've got, I've only got three years left and then to get that pension. I'm to, you know, there's, there's that tension, but I have seen when it comes to suicide, it does seem like the retirees are facing their own challenges.
00:29:54
Vernon Herron
They are. And so I'm glad that you have touched on this subject because we do, I think since I've been here, at least a dozen former members of the Baltimore City Police Department, whether they used to be police officers and resigned,
00:30:16
Vernon Herron
Or they retired, either died by suicide or they died by alcoholism, which is a slut it which is another form of suicide.
00:30:26
Vernon Herron
yeah it's just It's just a slow, part absolutely.
00:30:27
Crawford Coates
It's a horrible way to go, too. Mm-hmm.
00:30:30
Vernon Herron
And you you drink where you keep drinking until your body can no longer stand it. And it's really sad. and like some of these officers came to us from the civilian lives as non-drinkers or social drinkers.
00:30:45
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:30:46
Vernon Herron
But once they got department, either culture was like, hey, you know what, if you see any traumatic events, don't worry about Just let's go to the bar and have a drink, which is the worst thing you should do because you're conditioning your body to lean on alcohol every time you're traumatized.
00:30:55
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:31:02
Vernon Herron
and And so um that that's going to lead alcoholism. So that the education component of what we do here is just as important as what we do with our peer support members and our therapy dogs.
Importance of Self-care and Personal Outlets
00:31:17
Vernon Herron
We have to educate our members. Number one, hey, listen, um every year get a physical.
00:31:24
Vernon Herron
Every year get a physical.
00:31:25
Crawford Coates
Oh, yeah.
00:31:26
Vernon Herron
Yeah, yeah. ah Coronary Calcium Exam, if you're at that age or that stage, you have to eat right. You have to exercise. And at some point when you go, when you leave the department for the day, you have to deprogram yourself. You have to become, you know, Vernon Heron and go out and spend time with your family and not be so laser focused on what happened during that last eight hours, you know.
00:31:51
Vernon Herron
So, you know, one of the things we're going to do with this mental health professional is to get officers to understand, hey, listen, before you go home, here's some some strategies that you can apply so you can slowly, you know, uncouple from what you've been doing for the past eight or 10 hours.
00:32:11
Crawford Coates
Yeah, that's so great, Vernon. And and one of the things that loved about your book is is you touched upon the importance of having fun, too, and being happy as a police officer, because I think that's something that sometimes cops just don't talk about it. Like, you deserve to be happy. You and deserve you deserve to be a member of your community, a member of your church, you know, coaching sports with your kids and going to concerts with your significant other, all of that. And you you touch on that. And you want to talk a little bit about, because we've talked about some heavy stuff so far, but I think that the joy that comes with this job can't be overlooked either, right?
00:32:49
Vernon Herron
that that's That's true. You know, listen, I, you know, so we when we get indoctrinated into the police department, um we don't get that message that, hey, this is what you do. This is not who you are. And there is life out the police work is like, hey, you're a police officer 24 seven.
00:33:11
Vernon Herron
You know, we're relying on you to do this. we're been watching you on duty and off duty and so forth. And so that was instilled in me was like, wow, you know, even when I'm off duty, I got to be vigilant. I got to look around and see if there's any crime. Anybody needs help.
00:33:24
Vernon Herron
And that's you should not be doing that.
00:33:25
Crawford Coates
Right.
00:33:27
Vernon Herron
I'm not saying that if something happens that you shouldn't take action, but I'm just saying that should not be your focus. You know, and I mentioned in a book that, um you know, ah ah my beautiful wife, Carol, her father played 12 years in the NFL.
00:33:34
Crawford Coates
Right, right.
00:33:43
Vernon Herron
ah She grew up in a ah household. Lenny Moore, Hall of Fame Lenny Moore is her dad. so She grew up in a household where, you know,
00:33:49
Crawford Coates
Wow.
00:33:52
Vernon Herron
they enjoyed a lot of things in life, like going to museums, ah you know going on vacations, so going to the theater.
00:34:02
Vernon Herron
These are things that I had never done as as a kid growing up in East St. Louis. And when she was telling me not that long ago that that when she was ah ah ah maybe eight or nine, she and her siblings went to Muhammad Ali's camp to play with his kids as he was preparing for a fight.
00:34:08
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:34:20
Vernon Herron
I'm like, oh my God. You know, that is absolutely amazing. So, you know, when we first get. Yeah. I mean, you know, those are the things that people dream about doing, you know, meeting Muhammad Ali and his kids and his family and so forth.
00:34:34
Vernon Herron
So, you know, I bring that up because.
00:34:36
Crawford Coates
I have to tell you, Vernon, that's a picture of Larry Holmes right there. So.
00:34:40
Vernon Herron
oh is that right? ah
00:34:43
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:34:44
Vernon Herron
Yeah. So I had grown up in East St. Louis. You know, i think I went to the St. Louis Symphony symphony Orchestra maybe twice in my 12 years in school.
00:34:53
Crawford Coates
Hmm.
00:34:54
Vernon Herron
And it was like, hey, yeah we're going to go down to St. Louis and see the orchestra. But it was pretty much limited to that. And when I met my wife, she had mentioned to me that she wanted to us to go to a Broadway play.
00:35:08
Vernon Herron
And I had never been to a Broadway play. And I was like, that doesn't even sound interesting to me. Why would we want to do that? And she was like, no, we need to do this. So she coaxed me to go into a Broadway play. and And the first Broadway play I saw was Les Miserables.
00:35:25
Vernon Herron
And I ah was basically looking at my watch to say, what time is this thing going to start it and what time is going to end? But I got to tell you, Crawford,
00:35:36
Vernon Herron
Once the curtains opened up, I was mesmerized. and And once they closed, I was hooked.
00:35:40
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:35:42
Vernon Herron
And, and you know, to this date, I've seen dozens of Broadway plays. I've seen Denzel Washington Broadway, or Raising the Sun. I've seen Chorus Land. I've seen Chicago. I've seen Rent.
00:35:53
Vernon Herron
And this and I mentioned that. because police officers need to find an outlet, whether it's going to a Broadway play or going to a concert or spending time with your family or coaching your kids, softball or basketball teams.
00:36:09
Vernon Herron
Those are the things that help you manage your trauma and your stress. Because while you're doing those things, you're not thinking about
00:36:14
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:36:17
Vernon Herron
that person that you had to arrest last week. You're thinking about how great it is to be with your kids or enjoy this play or this concert. So that is part of my training is like, listen, if you don't have a hobby, you need to get one.
Family Prioritization and Personal Health Challenges
00:36:32
Vernon Herron
And it can't be just watching cop shows.
00:36:33
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:36:35
Vernon Herron
You know, you need to get out and and and create some type of hobby that's that makes you feel good inside, you know?
00:36:35
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:36:43
Crawford Coates
And also what you, what you touched on is the idea of constantly learning too, because. like you, I mean, going to a Broadway play that does not, I've never done anything like that. It doesn't sound particularly fun, but you have to learn to get out of your own way and learn about the world and not think that, you know, just how things are and, and, and you've got it all figured out and there's no other thing available to you. You know, there's, it's a big, wide, exciting world out there. And the reason that in most cases that people become a police officer is so that they can have that family and have that, that paycheck and have that,
00:37:19
Crawford Coates
you know, you're you're doing the job for a reason. and And that's part of what I think every police officer needs to think about is why am I doing this?
00:37:27
Vernon Herron
you know Absolutely. And and listen, i you know as I put in my book about, you know I played college basketball at Springfield College in Illinois, and ah you know we as sons like to impress our dads.
00:37:42
Vernon Herron
And I wanted my dad to come watch me play in a basketball game, and he never made it to one. And he was busy. i mean, he had a lot of miles to feed and so forth. And Springfield was 100 miles away. He didn't drive. ah But I had this void of not having my father watch me play college basketball.
00:38:01
Vernon Herron
And at an early age, I realized that if I ever have kids, they'll never have this void. So as my kid as I got married and started having kids and they wanted to participate in activities, I would be there for them.
00:38:16
Vernon Herron
you know I tell the story about having an opportunity to meet ah President Bush at Camp David. And it was on the i think yeah it was the same date that my youngest daughter, Rachel, was going playing in a basketball game.
00:38:22
Crawford Coates
That was my favorite story in the whole book. That was amazing.
00:38:32
Vernon Herron
and And although those opportunities to meet the president were were were not frequent, I turned it down because I wanted to see my daughter playing a basketball game.
00:38:44
Vernon Herron
And I wanted her to see me.
00:38:44
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:38:45
Vernon Herron
And I didn't want her to grow up saying, oh, my gosh, my dad missed some of of my games or all of my games. And when I told had a chance to meet the president of the United States that day, she was in awe, of course, and said, oh my God, dad, why didn't you go?
00:38:59
Vernon Herron
And I said, because you had a basketball game. So in her response of, you mean to tell me I'm more important than the president of the United States that that sits with me to this day. that that was one of my ah That was one of my memorable moments as being a parent. And and other police officers out there, you should you should get those memorable moments with your kids because they're not kids for long.
00:39:21
Vernon Herron
And so you should take advantage of that.
00:39:24
Crawford Coates
Absolutely. You know, I got two teenagers in the house right now, so I know exactly what you're talking about, Vernon. And, you know, do you have plans for retirement? Is there you excited?
00:39:34
Vernon Herron
Yeah, so...
00:39:34
Crawford Coates
Is there anything you want to give people a preview on?
00:39:37
Vernon Herron
Well, so so here's here's the, as you know, um for the past year, I have been battling prostate cancer. My Gleason score is really high. and My cancer is very aggressive. So um I'm getting treatment on a daily basis.
00:39:54
Vernon Herron
and And hopefully, God willing, in October of 2026, I'll be done with treatment. ah But, you know, listen, I am i am not getting any younger.
00:40:06
Vernon Herron
And um I do want to enjoy, i just listen, Mike, but for the first time in decades, my wife and I went on vacation to Puta Kana with our kids.
00:40:20
Vernon Herron
And we hadn't been on vacations together since they were real kids. They're now adults now with kids of their own. And it was like one of the greatest times in my life.
00:40:27
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:40:29
Vernon Herron
And I was like, oh my God, this is what I've been missing out on. So we're gonna make it an annual getaway and so forth. So it's important to understand I wanna spend more time with my, I know people say this, you know hey, I wanna leave and spend more time with my family.
00:40:46
Vernon Herron
But I really do. I mean, you know, we we all, none of us know how long we're going to be here, but I want to spend every living breath of my day appreciating the fire things in life, um engaging my kids and and making sure that that as I venture off into this thing called retirement, that I'm going to be healthy.
00:41:09
Vernon Herron
I'm going to beat this cancer. I'm going to continue getting my physicals every year. In fact, I get two a year you know because of my age.
00:41:17
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm.
00:41:17
Vernon Herron
But yeah, so I don't have anything on
Sustainability and Legacy of Wellness Programs
00:41:20
Vernon Herron
the horizon. I might write another book. I'm not really sure. But I want to really focus on me And I'll still be doing some teaching. i can never turn down anyone who wants me to come and speak to police officers because I think that's important that they hear my story, that they understand that that it is important note to recognize your traumatic events and understand that there is a way, there is help out there for you.
00:41:51
Crawford Coates
Yeah. Yeah. And do you have somebody who's going to, if you don't, that's fine, but you have somebody that's going to take over the, um, the officer safety and wellness section in your stead?
00:42:01
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:42:02
Vernon Herron
Well, that would be up to the police commissioner, not my staff, whenever I tell them, hey, um I think I'm heading down on ah the downside of my my my working career. And it's like, oh, you can't leave.
00:42:15
Vernon Herron
You know, you have to stay here. You know, i'm like, well, I'm going to leave. So listen, I have developed a program.
00:42:19
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:42:21
Vernon Herron
We developed a program where unless somebody comes in and just starts to change everything, it's on automatic pilot. I mean, we have the early intervention process, the health and wellness process, the peer support team, ah therapy dogs, and we're going hire a mental health professional.
00:42:31
Crawford Coates
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:42:41
Vernon Herron
ah The person that comes in, if they i would i would hope that they would enhance what we've done here, but not try to tear down what we've done here because we have the success.
00:42:51
Vernon Herron
We have the numbers that prove we've been successful. ah And, you know, when we started this thing seven to eight years ago, we used to do like 250 interventions a year. And that's when officers violated policy.
00:43:05
Vernon Herron
Once we started incorporating health and wellness with interventions, we're down 48 a year. 48 interventions year.
00:43:11
Crawford Coates
Wow.
00:43:12
Vernon Herron
does work. so it does work
00:43:16
Crawford Coates
And not only, i mean, if you want to put that into just dollars and cents, you're saving your department a lot of money.
00:43:22
Vernon Herron
Absolutely.
00:43:22
Crawford Coates
You know, by now.
00:43:22
Vernon Herron
And I tell police chiefs who say, hey I can't afford this.
00:43:23
Crawford Coates
Yeah.
00:43:25
Vernon Herron
I'm like, listen, you going to every dollar you put in the health and wellness, you're going to get $10 back because you're going to have a healthy employee who's going to be very productive. going have less citizen complaints.
00:43:38
Vernon Herron
You're going to have less lawsuits for assistive force cases. So you're really going to your department is going to save money at the end of the year.
00:43:47
Crawford Coates
It's an investment. Yep.
00:43:48
Vernon Herron
Yes.
00:43:49
Crawford Coates
Yep. Well, thank you so much, Director Heron. And i would just like to say to anybody listening to this, if you've if you've gotten something out of it, I can't recommend the book highly enough. it's It's a quick read. It's a fun read. And I think anybody who's been in law enforcement ah will will be able to find something in there that really resonates with with them.
00:44:11
Crawford Coates
And it's it would make such a good gift for somebody starting out their career as well. Anything you'd like to leave the audience with, Vernon?
00:44:18
Vernon Herron
No, no, thank you very much. i I really appreciate that. I have really enjoyed. and listen, I you know worked at the FBI, the Merrill State Police. I've been involved in some high profile cases.
00:44:29
Vernon Herron
my My greatest moment as a public safety employee is what we've done here in Baltimore, because I see ah the fruits of our labor. I get phone calls. I get text messages. I get people stopping me in the hallway saying, hey, you saved my life and my career.
00:44:47
Vernon Herron
So that's that's the legacy I want to leave. And i just want everybody to understand that if you are struggling, you know, ah reach out and get some help.
00:44:59
Vernon Herron
You know, don't suffer in silence.
00:45:00
Crawford Coates
Yep.
00:45:01
Vernon Herron
You you don't have to be a statistic. If you don't do it for yourself, do it for your family, because they deserve to have the best of you that they can have.
00:45:12
Crawford Coates
Yep. and And I think, sorry to keep going, but I think part of this that's what's so powerful about your, in your book is that not only did you reach out when you needed help, but you also had the grace to see that by reaching out and getting help, you could reach out and help other people too.
00:45:30
Vernon Herron
i think I think being someone who's gone through a these type of events, I think when I talk about the message, I'm not talking about theory, I'm talking about experience.
00:45:44
Vernon Herron
And I think a lot of officers appreciate that. I can't tell you, Crawford, the number of officers who've reached out to me after the A lecture was over to say, I need some help. And I'm glad that I heard your speech because I've been thinking about getting help. Now i'm going to get help.
00:45:58
Vernon Herron
ah You know, this thing needs to snowball. we We should not have a police officer taking their lives ever again because of the trauma associated with with their police work.
00:46:11
Crawford Coates
Yeah. Well, thank you, Vernon.