Transcript
Speaker: You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing. Creator and host, Ken Valente. Editor and producer, Peter Bauer.
Speaker: Hey everybody, this is Ken Vellante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. And I'm really excited here at the beginning November talking to Sophie Dunier, musician, jazz musician, artist. Sophie, welcome on to the podcast. So excited to have you on.
Speaker: Thank you. I'm honored to be here. Pleased to meet you. All right. So I i like i really enjoy ah music and enjoy doing music interviews. And I enjoy jazz. um Sometimes I struggle um trying to describe jazz music. and in And maybe even so as far as the music you create. um Could you introduce the listeners and and talk about
Speaker: What I've heard is it sounds different than other things, but can you describe part of the experience and in about the music um that you make? Sure. ah My music keeps on evolving, so each project is different from the other.
Speaker: So far, i have not done a project like this. um And it's it's very different from the other CDs I've done because I i actually um went all the way ah in this collaboration to explain really what I wanted. And and sometimes when you do jazz, it's all big blur. You know, you leave it to musicians and they interpret it the way they like it, you know. And as a composer, i ah like both ah planned and organized parts of the music and I also like improvisation. um
Speaker: But in this project, I have sort of ah planned sections of improvised sections as a part of the composition. That way it's different. So it's both organized music and chaotic.
Speaker: Then it goes back to organized and pre-decided. Then it's chaotic. So it's a mixture of a free jazz and not free jazz. Definitely not free jazz.
Speaker: And I would not describe myself as ah as a free jazz a person. I mean, to be honest, I'm that not even that fond of it. which is very contradictory.
Speaker: But at the same time, it's not because half of this project is is that there are sections that are free, and sections that are not free. so And after all, what is freedom? i don't think anything is free. it's It's more like, let's do it the way you want it or let's do it the way I want it. Freedom is very relative freedom.
Speaker: Yeah. Don't you think? yeah I can, i i can i i no I can, I can, I can, I can really feel that. I mean, like even talking about and just in general, like the freedom to, the freedom to do or or where you go with it. I find that you're, you're right. I mean, a lot of times, uh, almost, you know, every time there are constraints on like what we're doing and like yeah absolute constraints, like within time, and, and, and space,
Speaker: So there's always that influence of like, you know, what level of freedom. So like, I really picked up on a you saying in that. I wanted to ask you a question about you and your relationship to music. I mean, was there a time...
Speaker: where you're like something happened, you're like, I'm a musician, I'm an artist. Or was it something you always felt? Was there an event? What's your relationship with that identity as a artist, musician, composer? So I think ah and I began with um painting as a very young child.
Speaker: I always painted every day, but I never went to art school. and Then at the age of six, I started to take a classical piano lessons, and I did that for seven years.
Speaker: I changed to voice. I stopped playing piano, and I started to study jazz and when I was 19. And... um and You know, um I started with the piano playing. I did that for a long time. And actually, that's sort of what I was thinking I was going to do. but then I changed to singing and also writing. I'm a composer.
Speaker: So um for me, even though i I studied, you know, when you study something, you you have higher expectations than yourselves. It was ah always more of a complex relationship for me being a musician because you have high standards and, and, and a lot of expectations. That was more of a sort of mixed with joy and suffering. But the art though, I didn't expect anything because I never went to school for it. And I just yeah kept on going. And, uh,
Speaker: I don't really care. It's just a narrative. I was now narrating my my life with art because I could communicate better with art than I could with words as a child. so And then I was just doing it you know my whole life. And now it's just a part of me, like eating or sleeping or drinking. It's just a constant narrative. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, not to jump right in, but your painting, i really love your paintings. And you you you painted over time as well. Did you did you feel you had to like ah like choose in in study where there's a juncture? Because, you know, i'm I'm fascinated by thinking about painting and what it expresses and what you're doing, you know, with within music. oh Was that a hard choice?
Speaker: ah what What choice? What's like, did you, did you like, did you make it like, as far as formal study? Like, no, no, I never studied art. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I, I just watched and I like to watch and get influences. Um, and then, like I said, uh, um, it's, uh,
Speaker: It's also very, ah um I mean, i never I never plan when I make art. I i never use my head because that would would destroy the speed of the expression.
Speaker: And I already did use my head when I experienced when I learned what I saw, and and often when I paint, I realize what where it comes from before. Like if I have a conflict with someone two days earlier, and without even knowing it, I realize, oh, but here is that person in the art. It's very subconscious, but I think ah my conscious is the subconscious. I so think there is a huge... consciousness in the subconscious because this is, you know, it's just different timing.
Speaker: The time when you use the head and that that's the input and the output, I don't use my head. I don't want to use my head because it becomes rigid and pretentious because i already to use my head.
Speaker: So people mix up content with expression. Content content is is even though there is expression and feeling and the emotion that doesn't take away the content.
Speaker: And sometimes people tend to mix up, oh, there's nothing there. There's only emotion. like That is supposed to be something minor. And I say, yeah, but the content is there at the same time. You can't mix up how with what.
Speaker: That's how how I feel about it. That's exactly, yeah. that's so So with the music, and I feel that I'm very happy about this project because what happened in music is exactly what I wanted.
Speaker: um And that's a hard thing. you know You do a lot of projects and you look for something and you have a hard time explaining it and it doesn't always turn out the way imagined that I think you know and this communication with this musician was particularly good. And I really, really got the details in how I want my music to sound. So that's why I'm um'm extremely happy with this CD and especially the first tune, which is called Mad World.
Speaker: Yeah. Can you tell us the the the the name of ah the project and also um the relationship ah in creating it with another artist? You seem very particular in your ideas of what art is working with another artist on on this project. Tell us a little more.
Speaker: Yeah, so i I had been working on these tunes because, like I said, I've been doing a lot of different projects. Like last project was a jazz interpretation of music by contemporary composer called Karl Heinz Stockhausen. That's completely different.
Speaker: And the the projects prior to that was, you know, in other styles. So it's been a while since I've done... a real jazz album. um And I collected tunes um that I've been working on and and most of my music had have this kind of a touch of dissonance that i like.
Speaker: It has an edge. and I took some tunes that have this kind of stride thing about them. um And I um started to look for a pianist that would be suitable for the project. And I got some recommendations and finally I found Anthony Coleman, which ended up being perfect for this project.
Speaker: because he knew how to twist those dry tunes. And he's very capable and and also a great, um but very sensitive and very detailed in his expression. i i love this extremes of extremely quiet and extremely loud and everything yeah everything in between. So like a lot of details.
Speaker: And he really gave me that. So that inspires me also to how I want to sing my tunes. And that's a rare thing to find.
Speaker: And so I think they they they ended up pretty much how I i wanted it. This extreme tension and release, loud and soft, ah you know, next to each other. And I usually play with two or three elements that are very contradictory next to each other. And also,
Speaker: the tonality in my tones tend to be all over the place. I change um keys often without knowing itly it, they end up being polytonal. I modulate all the time. and so And I looked at many of my tunes end up and that happens kind of frequently. So that's kind of a style I have, which I like because you get into different spaces all the time.
Speaker: read Excuse the sound here. There's a truck outside. Hey, York City. We're reaching you from New York City. so um So I like the radical changes. ah both ah rhythmically, harmonically, and ah I just need to learn a little bit more, a little bit more space in there, you know. And also, ah people try to educate me that I should sing softer. And yes, I'm not a minimalist, but I could do with a little bit of that in the middle of all craziness. No, no, really, I'm open for suggestions.
Speaker: I've been loud for many years now, so it's time to calm down, right? Yeah, yeah. but i' never what I'm never one to tell anybody to quiet or calm down if it's a little loud. Okay, so then you're, that I don't know how it is in Oregon, but you know, it's like, you know, the style, of the style these days is minimalism is very popular.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I mean, it's not my thing, but I can do a little bit of it. Yes. Yeah, tell me. Yeah, I wanted to ask you. No, I haven't haven't studied art ah formally. I always think I have interest in art conversations on the basis of that.
Speaker: And like I ask the big questions of art, which sometimes you do kick around and study. ah like And one of those I wanted to ask you, if if if you want to kick it around, is what is art?
Speaker: Are you talking about painting now? Yeah. I mean, what is art? Yeah. No, I think it's like a continuation of life. And for me, my art and music is like a saturation of who I am because we all lie a little bit every day when we talk and we meet people. It's a lot of theater.
Speaker: And I think it's ah my my, at least my art and music is is kind of a, It's kind of a, I can't lie in it. So it's kind of the ultimate truth of who I am. But it's, I mean, of course, it's a bit exaggerated, but there's a lot of, it represents my my truth. Because, you know, i like I said, the conscious life is full of, a pretending, you know, and the subconscious I think is more honest because you find the truth in the subconscious in my, when I go to sleep, I see everything much clearer.
Speaker: when you sleep, you lie around thinking or your dreams, like all the truths present themselves there. And then you wake up you walk out in the conscious life and you know, there's bunch of bullshit going on. People, people pretend a lot all the time.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. yeah So in my art, I find the truth. Yeah. But in exaggerated truth. The brutal truth. Part of the interview sometimes I i really listen. I'm like listening to you. i know I'm supposed to conduct an interview, but I was really listening as you were dropping down into like really, really capturing it. So what what what is the role what is the role of art? like All right. So is is the role of art, right? So you make an art. um I have no idea.
Speaker: i don't no no No idea? yeah i don't know what the message or I hate those things. The messages or the role. it's like I thought you might. i thought you wait Yeah, but of course it has a role. you know but That's like saying, what's your message? i mean My mother didn't get into art school because she didn't know what to say when some someone who's going to accept her. What's your message? You say, i don't know. I mean, who cares? It's like there is a message. you have to overstate it? You know, that's the whole point. yeah yeah You don't have to talk about it. You kill it if you analyze it before, you know.
Speaker: I don't know. Of course it has a meaning. I, ah it has a meaning. Of course, I read some things by Susan Stontag today that I liked and it influenced my life.
Speaker: i like what she writes there and I use it. So, People use things that they see and experience and it helps them or it doesn't help them. But yeah, of course, there's a message. oh um about live about live ah performance. um what's um like We're here in late 2026. There a particular ah venue or live performance or place that you are playing or would like to play? ah Yes, I am ah i'm preparing for a CD release concert.
Speaker: at the Shapeshifter Lab venue in Brooklyn this Thursday on November 5. And before that, there will be a fantastic contemporary pianist called Kathleen Suppove, opening up the show at 6 o'clock.
Speaker: ah And I will also have my art exhibits starting from 6 to 7. So there's lots of stuff going on on Thursday at Shapeshifter Lab between 6 and 8.
Speaker: Yeah, that's the CD release of Messed Up Stride. That's the name of my latest CD. And this new CD together with Anthony Coleman. And there will also be an art exhibit plus this other great pianist, Kathleen Sokova.
Speaker: And my CD will be released. It will be released on ah November. um There is in a digital and a physical, I think it's November 11 and November um Yes. and And also there is a um I will be performing at a Dada show in New York City on Wednesday um um in relation to a book where my artwork Love for Sale is featured in Maintenant 20.
Speaker: So I have some things this week. and Fantastic. What great art week for you. Yeah, it is. lots of Lots of stuff, moving bags around and artworks and then doing you know business in between. it's It's fun to be on tour.
Speaker: it's nice to catch you It's nice to catch you at this moment. and um I wish I could do something in in California. Um, yes. Uh, the, you know, one of the things that, one of the things that I really like in talking about music and jazz is, you know, I try to find a good jazz place and there's this place called Jack London.
Speaker: um in in In Portland. And I like to have a place where I can go to this like see jazz that's like ah reliable, great seating, even um the atmosphere feels like it right. It's downstairs is a pool hall upstairs, it's dark. It's like perfect, beautiful setup with tables. And um so i love I love catching jazz. And another really cool thing that's happened to me, i got ah there's a farmer's market right here in where I am in Salem, and in salem Oregon. And there's ah a jazz ah jazz player who plays the saxophone almost there every week. And for the last like throughout the summer, I've been asking him, hey, I really like this last ah performer that you mentioned, you mentioned Ornette Coleman, it's like jazz history. And then I went back to him and he's been he's been feeding me these... um
Speaker: these jazz albums and names. And it's been such just like little nice piece. It's been like my source for jazz. So I also, like in this sit interview, be able to connect with you and um like in in your work in New York City. And about your painting, too. like i mean I just saw that, I think, when we were chatting before, or just like in messages. I was like, oh my gosh, you paint, too. because i Oh, I missed to respond that.
Speaker: Because after that, I had an incident of a um I actually ended up in the hospital because I got a food poisoning. So I couldn't follow up what you wrote about the art. I'm sorry about that. But now I put a little heart there. Thank you for I appreciate that. No, Food poisoning. You have to respond to comments when you got food poisoning. No, no. But I'm fine now. That was a wild number. Yeah. Okay. But I'm very good now. Thank you.
Speaker: Oh, awesome. Hey, ah Sophie, um ah ah listeners ah listening ah to this podcast episode, and ah so where where do they go like online to find your painting, to find your music? Where did they go to if they want to get more of of your art and your ah yourself?
Speaker: um So they can go to sophieduniermusic.com. dot com And they can visit my record label, Urlicht Audiovisual, in New York City.
Speaker: And it's it's on all the platforms, iTunes, Apple, you name it. They can go to Spotify. um i don't It will be there soon. um And they can also go to Saatchi Art and look for my name. That's where my art is for sale.
Speaker: Wow, so impressive. And the name of the CD is Messed Up Stride. Messed Up Stride. Yeah, and one of my paintings is is on the cover, right? so Oh, you get it all, folks. um Sophie, it's been it's been a blast ah it's been a blast to connect with you. And I'm really excited for your art week. I love when I talk to people, they totally have an art week with release in your paintings.
Speaker: yeah i do. I do. it's ah It's all there. It's going to be exciting. Yeah. So, ah yeah, looking looking very much forward to that. And thanks for having me. I ah appreciate that, you know, we could talk about both things and endurere your questions. You had good questions.
Speaker: Thank you, Sophie. um Best of luck, ah everybody. ah um And if you're in New York City, my even my my brother was just in New York City this weekend ah to is supporting a ah runner. He's training ah for the marathon. Oh, the marathon. The marathon. Yeah, there was a Swedish guy who won it.
Speaker: Did you read that? Wait a second. A Swedish guy won the New York City marathon? He did. Andreas Algren. I'm very proud. Goodness gracious.
Speaker: Good. Good. My ah fiance say of Swedish stock from ah Minnesota. Her family's out from Minnesota. The the great migration over there of us ah both Swedish and Norwegians to Wisconsin and Minnesota. Yes, I went to Wisconsin.
Speaker: Yes. yeah Yes. yeah Big Scandi culture there. It's nice. There it there there is. um Thank you, Sophie. ah Best of luck.
Speaker: Really great talking to you. Thank you very much for having me. And take care. too. Bye.
Speaker: It's a mad world, it's a sad world, but in spite of feeling pretty bad.
Speaker: Mad but glad, it's a sad world, such a mad world, but in spite of
Speaker: It's a wild world, but in spite of feeling pretty bad.
Speaker: It's wild world, it's about feeling pretty glad. It's a mad world, sad world, but it's about I'm feeling pretty glad. It's a mad world, making feel so awfully much. It hurts, can you feel It's a wild world, but it's about feeling pretty glad.
Speaker: It's such a sad world, but in spite of feeling pretty mad, I'm so mad but glad.
Speaker: It's a sad world, it's such a mad world, but in spite of feeling
Speaker: you
Speaker: But in spite of feeling pretty Sad world, bad world It's such a bad world It's such a sad world
Speaker: This is Something Rather Than Nothing.
