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Black Hart of St. Paul Owner Wes Burdine + The Best and Worst Moments of the First Half of the Season!
55 Plays8 days ago
Wes Burdine of Black Hart of St. Paul joins the show this week! Zoey and Ari pick his brain about the club's response to the ICE occupation, supporter's groups, building community, and more!
Then, they transition into discussing the best and worst moments of the season so far.
Follow the show on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/looncalling.bsky.social
Follow Wes: https://bsky.app/profile/wesburdine.bsky.social
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Transcript
Introduction & Wes Burdine's Journey
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Loon Calling, podcast dedicated to Minnesota United Football Club. And I am here today. i don't think Zoe's been here since the first episode of the podcast. wasn't that long ago. But ah Zoe, how are you doing this evening?
00:00:42
Speaker
You are correct. I haven't been since the pilot. I've been incredibly busy. um DJ life be DJing. Yeah, so that DJ life, that DJ life. Well, we also have a very special guest with us today. We have the man, the myth, the legend, Wes Burdine here with us. How are you doing tonight, Wes?
00:01:04
Speaker
I'm great. Thanks for having me, guys. It's great to be here. No problem. No problem. um Yeah, wanted to have you on and have a little chat about ah the club, about Blackheart, about we'll probably mention Minnesota Aurora there somehow. Yeah, I just wanted to have a chat about that.
00:01:26
Speaker
um Yeah, to just start it off, um for anybody that doesn't know who you are, could you introduce yourself to everybody? Yeah, so Wes Burdine and um you know i I came to Minnesota soccer about, it was like 16 years ago. a guy named Bruce McGuire, who's you know the the legend of ah Minnesota soccer. We met at ah at a now defunct place in ah in the old Best Western right next to the Capitol where everyone used to watch all the US games and things like that. uh and he was like hey you know you should come watch this team nsc minnesota stars and uh i i came to a game and i was hooked and uh you know spent the next few years like um launching the red loons and and we had a a zine that would do on on game days uh called at first it was called the jackassery times heckler and then um
00:02:27
Speaker
think it was the Jack Astrid times Picayune at one point, and then it became the darkness. And then we would publish the annual complete darkness, which was like a review of the season. And then i launched 55 one, which is a, a a soccer blog and and podcast and,
00:02:44
Speaker
At that point, ah you know, retired from writing, but ah but then then started Blackheart, which is, you know, the queer soccer bar right across from the stadium and in
Creating an Inclusive Soccer Bar
00:02:54
Speaker
Midway. And that's what I've been doing in the last eight years, which is insane to say that. But we're on eight years in in August.
00:03:02
Speaker
I will selfishly say as a queer person, I love your bar. It's my bar and I love it. Thanks. So thank you. Thanks. I did see there was a like ah Reddit question ah from someone asking if they they they're like, I'm straight and my my two friends straight, but we have one gay friend and we want to come watch the World Cup.
00:03:22
Speaker
Or is it okay to watch it Blackheart? I just want to say to any listeners, it's a queer soccer bar, but that's like, it's not like the Venn diagram where only queer soccer fans are allowed. It's it's just that gives it its personality and, ah you know, lots of straight folks like me watching soccer there as well, or just watching a drag show or playing bingo.
00:03:43
Speaker
Or a pool or karaoke or. Exactly. Anything you do at a bar, you can do a block card. Honestly, i like that people are asking those questions.
00:03:56
Speaker
I don't know if people are conscious of like encroaching on queer spaces or anything like that, but it's better to ask ah first before going. But you heard it from the owner.
00:04:09
Speaker
ah and Anyone is welcome as long as you are
World Cup Plans at Blackheart
00:04:13
Speaker
you know. not Yeah, as long as you're not an asshole. So then, yep, that's perfect. As long as you're not an asshole. And you mentioned watching the World Cup at Blackheart. Do you have any plans for the World Cup? Do you have any anything any events planned? Or like do you want to share what the plans are at Blackheart for the World Cup?
00:04:34
Speaker
Yes, thank you for letting me plug it. Yeah, I mean, we'll have every game on. um We'll open up early for all those games. um We'll be open late for all the games because there's a few like Australia 11 p.m. games.
00:04:46
Speaker
um The big ones are obviously going to be the U.S. games. We'll we'll have... an extra like LED truck that'll be out on our patio so that we can so that we can fit as many folks out there as possible.
00:04:59
Speaker
i mean, we're hoping just to make it a massive party the whole month long. And then, yeah, we'll have passports that people can buy that... um get you like a dollar off a bunch of drinks for all your games. It also, um each game you come to is an entry for like every week we'll have prizes. And so, I mean, it's it's I've been planning for it since last August. I've been meeting with a bunch of vendors and trying to get as much crap to give away and and just trying to make it big. um So it's great it's finally here. I think I've been stressed about it, but once the games happen, i mean, we can talk about all the other crap surrounding it, but watching World Cup soccer is the best. It's so much fun.
00:05:42
Speaker
And not only is it the best, but at it's best experienced with people in public. Absolutely. There's nothing like it. I intend on watching many a match at Blackheart and everybody, if you if you have any if you have any desire to watch at all. I think you mentioned all the stuff surrounding the the World Cup, and we want to get into some, you know, semi-serious topics on on this podcast. um But, like...
00:06:16
Speaker
I think in terms of the World Cup, I think it's important to just be in community around the World Cup and make it about being with the people you love and care about and supporting businesses and organizations that you care about because it's going to happen whether you want it to or not.
00:06:35
Speaker
The World Cup is here. it means a lot to a lot of people. It can have a positive community impact. So let's just try to make it as positive as
Community & World Cup Support
00:06:45
Speaker
possible. And it sounds like Blackheart is going to be a very positive place to consume the World Cup.
00:06:51
Speaker
So can't do much better. Exactly. It's Pride Month. Yes, it is Pride Month. that yeah that actually World Cup, literally two of my favorite things once. Yeah, it's going to be intense. There's going to be a lot going on all at once.
00:07:07
Speaker
Oh my gosh. World Cup, drag shows, just queer people doing queer people shit at the queer bar can't wait can't wait for it well let's get into our conversation here i guess i should say our interview here Um, some things have happened over, uh, in our neck of the woods, um, in the, in the past six months. So if yeah I just want to say upfront, we're going to get into those things. Um, we want to have conversations, um, and talk about the things that happened in our community. You know, we're talking about being with community during the world cup. Um, and our community saw, um,
00:07:55
Speaker
ah pray that I don't even um don't even know how to talk about it, really. like We went through collective trauma together is the the the short way to say it. Exactly.
00:08:07
Speaker
we We went through a serious traumatic event as a community. And for some of us, like millennials, we've been through a lot of those.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah.
ICE Occupation & Community Response
00:08:22
Speaker
um So, Wes...
00:08:27
Speaker
You, i think a lot of people in the soccer community, especially the Minnesota United community and the Minnesota Aurora ah community, um anybody that follows you on Blue Sky, really, you were very active during the height of the ice occupation here. um What was, ah and i hate to like make it about soccer, but I mean, that's what this podcast is about. But like,
00:08:57
Speaker
In the context of of Minnesota United and and going through all this stuff and having a business that is in the Midway neighborhood, one of the neighborhoods that was like affected by the height of the ICE occupation.
00:09:12
Speaker
Like, what was your reaction to the club's overall response to the height of the occupation. um Like, what was your impression of it?
00:09:24
Speaker
um Do you wish they would have done anything differently? Like, what are your thoughts? Yeah, you know, I i think um obviously I was pretty disappointed at first to see how quiet the team was. um ah Compared that to, for example, how Minnesota Aurora um kind of the the staff there really went out of their way and to kind of um make sure that fans knew that they were supported. and And for me, it was it was something like, you know, one one of the
00:09:57
Speaker
um Dads of ah my son's soccer team is a big Minnesota United fan. And he and his family, we just didn't see for two months because they were sheltering and they were they were at risk. And and so um but for me, it was it it was just like.
00:10:14
Speaker
you know This isn't just about putting out a political statement, which I think is overrated. i don't think that's very performative and and stuff like that. But it really is a matter of making your fans feel like they are seen in a space. um it's it's also yeah there's There's a lot of things that I think can can be positive for it.
00:10:35
Speaker
Um, and, and I did have a conversation with people at the team, including Sherry Ballard. Um, and you know, I i kind of don't want to say too much from that, but I, I understood that, um, they were balancing a lot of really tricky things there that, that I think are were legit, you know, um taking care of not just staff, but academy families and things like that, and not wanting to put them at risk. um and And I, so I have a lot of sympathy for that, for not wanting to draw attention to that. And my my statement to to them and to Sherry was that think that you can still
00:11:16
Speaker
ah you can still accomplish this thing and speak to these people and make them feel seen, um ah stand up for what's right without, um and and still keep people safe and still accomplish that. i I suspect that's what they thought they were doing when they signed on to that big corporate letter from all the the CEOs that was really just um a bowl of lukewarm oatmeal. um But but in in short, I think that Minnesota minnesota United really...
Building Inclusive Communities
00:11:46
Speaker
They cared and they were trying to do things. They were just trying to do it very quietly, which um is not something I do. I'm a very loud person, but I also respect that there's different ways to do things. So, um yeah. so and and But I was then really pissed off when, like, for you know, i'm i'm your listeners won't see, but I'm wearing my St. Paul Liberation front T-shirt. And, like, they were like, oh, you can't bring that flag in here. And I was like, are you kidding me? Are you... You're going not allow a fake organization that we used to create, to raise like $7,000 for the neighborhood. Like just the stupid kind of wimpy stuff, that stuff pissed me off. But overall I can, ah I can be disappointed in Minnesota United while understanding they, they tried.
00:12:38
Speaker
So you wrote on your sub stack around the height of the ICE occupation that there's this hypocrisy to win conservative leaning people use the idea of like community.
00:12:58
Speaker
I know you say you helped start the Red Loons. Can you speak to this more in detail? Like, What could progressives and those on the left do to build community, to assert themselves maybe more folks forcefully in their communal experience? Because I feel like sometimes it's
00:13:22
Speaker
people want to assert themselves but don't know how. Yeah, no, this is this is like my thing, my my central life life thesis here. You know, i just got back from Reno last week. A few folks asked me to come out and talk to them about um the ICE occupation and in response and kind of help them create some tools there. And so I have not finished my feelings in in trying to come up with my lessons from the occupation,
00:13:51
Speaker
eventually, maybe next week I'll finish that and write it but and put it out there. But largely it centers around this idea of community. And and one basic thought is that like it's important to have communities that um
Politics, Community, and MLS
00:14:06
Speaker
are not that we understand that none of them are politically neutral, but we don't have to have politics be the center of it. And soccer is a great example. right Soccer is about having fun yelling at grownups, ah sometimes grown men, sometimes grown women, and just watching a ball get kicked around. It is fun and stupid, right?
00:14:28
Speaker
We should enjoy it and not lose sight of that. But, right, when you get a bunch of people in ah in a space where you have a lot of immigrants, where you have a lot of people of different abilities and you know everything about that is political. it's It's underground there. And so obviously in the last 20 years,
00:14:48
Speaker
People have been spending more time thinking about how, you know, thinking about the the politics in sports. And I think it's really important to keep those two balanced in a good way. And to also understand outside of sports, we have different communities that are that we saw in Minnesota got really spun up and activated. You know, you had like book clubs and knitting clubs and whatever that just became like, all right, well, now we're going to do this. We're going to do some work here. Right. And it's important that you have things that are fun because you we've all seen people on the Internet who obviously do not have hobbies and they think politics is a hobby. And like they need to chill the freak out. Right. As someone who is intense and very political, like i feel like, OK, guys, chill out.
00:15:35
Speaker
um But I think that communities are always something that we should be building and we could should be finding joy with. but also we can use those to do something more important than, than just watching sports. I was never a sports guy myself. Um, and suddenly found myself, becoming one. But for me, it's about be all, both those things in kind of harmony.
00:15:59
Speaker
And, um, and I think Bill, you know, the left and building community, it's really just about building, spaces of joy, right? That's why I do do black heart. That is my job. My job is to make spaces and events and things that people come together and enjoy. um,
00:16:16
Speaker
Obviously it's political in nature, but not like we're not getting them to rally. We're not signing people up for shit. It's just in order to be here, we have to recognize that it's a political action, that queer joy is a political action. And even if you are just the straight dude coming to hang out of the there, that that is a political action. and And it doesn't need to be all about that.
00:16:38
Speaker
Just coming to play pool with some buddies, but they're all, it's always there under the, under the surface.
Balancing Business and Values
00:16:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:46
Speaker
In your opinion, can progressive politics exist in areas like MLS fan groups? Does the corporate nature of the league limit political possibilities, or is it possible for good political culture to emerge regardless of or in spite of league imperatives?
00:17:07
Speaker
Yes. um I think it makes it really depressing sometimes. But I mean, i mean look, can can progressive politics exist within capitalism? or can can you know Yeah. i mean, I'm not going to have Minnesota United will never be the title exactly the team that I would dream. Even Minnesota Aurora, the team that I helped create, is never going to be the team I want to dream, this perfect, you know magical unicorn.
00:17:33
Speaker
I can really help Aurora be way more to closer to that dream. But that's you the fact is um that's because it it involves a small amount of money um rather than, you know, the hundred fifty million dollars to get a franchise fee for for Minnesota United or whatever it was.
00:17:53
Speaker
um But like our job is like not to to see this big mountain and think that we need to make it flat or or the opposite. Right. It's really just to try to create spaces that are more inclusive. And the fact that we have created a fan base in Minnesota where, you know, half of the capos up on the stands in Wonderwall are queer. Right. That that that is a huge accomplishment. um you know, the the fact that we can use that energy, um, from the supporters groups to, um raise money for, you know, food shelves and, and ah other organizations that help people who are never going to come to a game, but they're still part of our community. I think that those are real things and they're not, um,
00:18:43
Speaker
ah you know, we're we're not going to turn MLS or Minnesota United into these huge ah progressive forces. But I think particularly with ah with a chief owner like ah Dr. Bill, I think that we have at least something that I'm a little bit more comfortable and less depressed with than if I was a NYCFC fan, right? And cheering for a team owned by human rights violators.
00:19:17
Speaker
Something um like you being a Figner of the community, how do you balance upholding the values of like Blackheart, your business, or a team like Aurora that you helped start, and but also the business aspects of it? Do business decisions and moral decisions go hand in hand to you? or are are they kind of separate? Does being so closely involved with things like the supporters groups and whatnot change the way you think about the club for what it is?
00:19:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. There's lots of different... um I mean... ah kind of threw a bowl of spaghetti at you. Yeah, no, no but there's there's really small, small ball stuff that is like... um You know, it's rarely like...
00:20:16
Speaker
um One or the other. um I don't I mean, I don't like thinking about money, but I've chosen to now being an entrepreneur and like creating things. And all of a sudden, my life is thinking about money every day and being stressed about money. It's a really stupid thing I've done to myself. But I don't I see that as different. Yeah.
00:20:37
Speaker
I see us as always pushing toward ideals and goals and being trying to be very um understanding that um that it's not going to not going to look the way I want. you know With Aurora, it's a great example. right we We've brought in and investors to help keep it alive. right like this This club ah trying to keep a team going year-round when you only have six home games is extremely tough. right We bring in investors. They have different opinions. and
00:21:09
Speaker
um not Not to say it's like theirs are bad or minor and mine are good, but it's just they have different motivations and opinions. and That will only increase. where Our goal is to go professional. 100%, I don't think ah it will be in this ideal state. So we're always having to um negotiate terms and and people have different more morals. Maybe sounds too heavy there, but we just have different ways that we want to be ethical in the world. And some of those are little bit more black and white and some of them more gray. um
00:21:47
Speaker
So, yeah, the the last part of the question was, does it change how you view? Yeah, I think I'm really under ah understanding, even though i know I probably present as a um hardline ideologue, but I think it's important to um to understand and to work toward things, but also understand where we where we will have to necessarily
Challenges in Community Engagement
00:22:14
Speaker
negotiate, right? We can't always be as loud as maybe I want or can't always be just as forceful. That doesn't mean we can't work toward these good things. So I think, yeah, it's always a matter of trying to negotiate that path for me, whether whether it's in my just...
00:22:30
Speaker
you know, little business or thinking about my role with Aurora on the board or, or even just thinking about how I look at Minnesota United and often criticize them, but try to try to think that I'm doing it fairly and and doing it um in a way that I think is productive as well, rather than just bitching about it.
00:22:51
Speaker
Quick add on question to that. How do you feel about the state of Wonderwall as a whole? Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that the people doing Wonderwall are should be absolutely praised to the moon. They have an extremely tough job. They do a lot of sacrificing of their time as volunteers so that people that people at that stadium can have fun and not know all the work that was put in so that they could have that fun. um i'm I'm really proud of the Wonderwall and I know a decent amount of them and think that the world of them, you know, I think um
00:23:32
Speaker
ah I think that they're doing a lot of hard work and I think that it's really hard to bring new people in and blood new people and get new people into these organizations, whether it's Wonderwall as a whole or Dark Clouds, Red Loons, etc., Getting kind of the younger fans in to understand why you would be part of these supporters groups, I think is is always really difficult. Building community is really tough to do. So yeah, I'm i'm super, i think if you compare Wonderwall to teams, or supporters groups around the the league, I think that they are top five. They're they're just really, really well done and and really care and work hard.
Critique of MLS Structure
00:24:15
Speaker
In discussing the Vancouver Whitecaps likely moving it seems like Las Vegas seems like the targeted area. Um...
00:24:26
Speaker
You argue that it reveals the way in which MLS has essentially moved into a dead end with its ownership structure, where only the wealthiest owners can possibly invest, while other mid-sized owners might struggle to keep up or invest. Could you speak a little bit to those underlying financial mechanics, like how we got here and how they explain the current conjuncture the league is stuck in?
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it comes from this baseline of both NWSL and MLS succeed because the fans have made it unique. And soccer and in the U.S. is about offering a different thing than what football and every every other sport offers. I mean, that's my that's why I came to That's why i don't watch baseball. I watch a little bit of basketball now. But um I just don't those like the idea of watching even the Super Bowl is just completely boring to me. Now, there's plenty of and MLS fans who watch lots of sports. But I think the what makes you decide between going to a loons game and a twins game It's one of the twins are really fucking depressing. But ah but that that you have like this environment that is totally different. And it is not about just coming as a consumer and watching. It it is participating in it. And you create the atmosphere. And to me, it comes down to my like basic basic thesis about life is that...
00:25:52
Speaker
Community is something that we build together. It's not something you're passively a part of. And so that that's the base thing that gets there. And the more and more the that the league has decided that um rather than nurturing those things, what we would like to do is build this league and become successful by throwing more money at it. So rather than making... Going like the Portland Timbers route and saying, we're going to be we're going to get higher TV revenue and be more successful in the long term by creating fan bases that are rabid and they might be more niche. Right. We only we have these stadiums for twenty five thousand people, twenty thousand people. um
00:26:31
Speaker
But every we sell out every game and all 25,000 people are really into it, or at least 75% of them. Rather than do that, we've created a model where the most important thing is that these are assets for really rich people that will accumulate in value. So we're creating a smaller league, don't want to do promotion and relegation, have lots of different teams, and um and that we're gonna say the the the best part the reason to become an owner is not because you can have a financially viable um team that has that that is exciting for people to come watch but it's that it's an asset that um that's part of your portfolio and to me that is ah not the way you grow the game and it's it's unfortunately a lot of people a lot of the
00:27:20
Speaker
pundits out there who I respect a lot are like, oh, we just need more money, more bigger players, more messies and everything will move the needle and making it bigger. And obviously messy is great. I love messy. I had a blast watching him play at our stadium, but like,
00:27:38
Speaker
there's a lot of times they're great and lose yep and get his butt kicked but i think to me um i'm i think that the way to do it is not to spend more money on this team and just to make these teams more sustainable and that yes we will bring in some big players but to not focus on that as the the way to grow the league culture over commerce Yeah. And I think that choosing culture is a commercial decision. i think that um you can do it. I just i just see the the level of debt spending so that you can have... you know The way that these teams all exist is that they lose $8 million dollars a year, but each year they go up in value by $12 million. And so...
00:28:23
Speaker
um that That to me, once you once you put that on steroids, it's it's just not a good, it doesn't create an atmosphere that that feeds feeds the supporters
Soccer Growth Predictions
00:28:37
Speaker
groups. And I've already seen the way in which Minnesota United used to act and other leagues, other teams in particular act. And you can see the atmosphere is dying out. Wonderwall is not as good as it was.
00:28:48
Speaker
uh five six seven years ago and it's not just because of the new stadium and whatever it's because a lot of the people who made it really good really got turned off um and and and walked away and so the the amount of tifo is down the amount of capos is down and i think that a lot of people just were like well if you're gonna say that i'm just a brand ambassador that screw you i'm not why why am i donating my time here
00:29:15
Speaker
One more final question here before we get to actually talking about the game on the pitch. um Given some of the questions we asked you and the situation of soccer in the U.S. as a whole, where do you kind of see it going in the next day? do you think it's peaked or plateaued? Is it going to find a way to adapt and evolve so it can continue to grow? Or are we as soccer and enjoying fans looking at kind of like a downward spiral, kind of a stagnation? Because I know one of the big reasons we wanted the World to Cup is that we get the World Cup and then America's going to get it
00:30:03
Speaker
Yeah. um Look, I think that we've largely plateaued. um I don't think there's a death spiral. I think there is stagnation, but I think it's just um they're going to keep on trying to become the NFL and they're they're just never going to become the NFL. Yeah.
00:30:23
Speaker
And i think that you'll get these big moments, but we've largely um picked off the the big ah the big groups here and gotten to almost all the major cities and including with USL and and and MLS. And um yeah, and I just I don't see them. I see them adding by increments rather than making leaps. um And I think that that's largely a choice that they've made that they don't quite understand. I think you have a bunch of people who have MBAs and don't understand ah life or anything. They understand ah stupid. Numbers and balance sheets. Yeah. And they understand their stupid initiatives. And i think it's it's gotten really lame.
MLS Schedule Changes
00:31:11
Speaker
um But that's that's kind of.
00:31:14
Speaker
how it goes, man. That's I'm not, I'm pretty open-eyed about that. I'm pretty, it bums me out. That's why I write my, you know, every once a while. I work in corporate America, so I can, I can empathize.
00:31:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So I, I think I see it as as kind of stagnating and it'll keep growing in some ways, but yeah. Yeah. I have a couple of quick follow-ups, just quick hits here. One, how do you feel about MLS shifting the schedule to fall to spring?
00:31:44
Speaker
um Do you think that's a positive thing for the sporting side of things or what's your perspective? No, I don't. was not on mic for that. I apologize. Oh, um yeah, I think um I think it's not the end of the world. I think it's a bummer.
00:32:02
Speaker
ah i But i mean, i look, I understand the reasons for it. And I think some of them are pretty decent. um I don't think it's a positive for the sporting side. um It'll make it, you know.
00:32:15
Speaker
A little bit better in that, like you look at Minnesota United this year, obviously we need to have a striker. They never replaced Tanny and it'd be great if you could do that in the preseason. So I i get that.
00:32:26
Speaker
um I don't, I also don't think it's the end of the world. I think it, once I looked at the calendar, it looks like we'll trade three games in June or July and those will come in November now. And yeah,
00:32:38
Speaker
you know I would rather be ah ah there in June or July, but it's three games. it's It's not the end of the world. And and I do think the the actually the toughest part about it is having a long two month break in the middle of the season. And you'll have basically three months in Minnesota with no home games. And I think you'll absolutely like if we are.
00:33:01
Speaker
terrible um in the first half or one of the teams, you know, let's say a New York team or a Philly team, if they're terrible in the first half of the season, are people showing up in February or March?
00:33:13
Speaker
Maybe they'll show up at the end, but like that's the reason people show up in February and March now is it's the beginning of the season. It's all fresh and new. So i i I think that is going to be that momentum killer in the middle of the season is going to be a real is going to destroy the markets that are bad. um But and then for me, like me at the bar, like people ask me a lot, like, is it going to hurt us? And it's like, well, honestly, like game days are are great, but like we have a lot of stuff to do in the summer and I can have three more dildo derbies in the summer and
Season Highlights & Lowlights
00:33:51
Speaker
that's fine. People will come out and watch racing dildos on Pinewood Derby sets.
00:33:57
Speaker
Dillow Derby is peak. August 2nd. Put it on your calendar, everybody. yep um but um'm like Me literally going to my calendar to put it on my calendar right now.
00:34:12
Speaker
Well, we might as well move on to the next section of our podcast here We are going to go over the best and the worst moments of the season so far. This is going to less structured than the than the podcast usually is, but I have a list here on my phone. Wes, do you have a list or anything, any notes you're working off of for this segment?
00:34:33
Speaker
No, just in the recess. I will go i will go off of my what I have written down here. um And we can we can kind of trade ah points here. um So why don't we just dive right into it? I think we should start with the worst moments, right? Start with the bad news. Finish with the good news. Let's do let's do the worst moments. and i like go I have the worst moment.
00:35:02
Speaker
Okay. It was Boxy going injured. so Oh. Oh. Plain and simple. I like this spin. Please speak more.
00:35:13
Speaker
You could make a very strong argument that culturally, Boxel is the center of this team. It has been for a very long time.
00:35:25
Speaker
I don't know why Will Trapp got the captain's arm band. It should have always been Boxy, in my opinion. um When you're injured, yes, you can show up to the stadium and whatnot and support your fellow teammates. But there is a tangible difference between sitting on the bench and being in the trenches with your teammates fighting alongside.
00:35:54
Speaker
and it makes a difference. You play differently knowing that you have a center back who's got your back.
00:36:06
Speaker
A goaltender is going to play significantly more risky if they don't have a center back that they can be confident in. And I'm going to leave this into my Highlights of the season, the strong, continued strong emergence and rise of Morris Duggan.
00:36:30
Speaker
Yeah, they preach. The dude is turned into a stud. They have found their future boxy replacements. And they didn't break the bank to do it, which is great considering how finances work with MLS. It's a whole mess. We need to have an episode with Mike from the lawn to just talk about the finances of how MLS works because it's nonsense and monopoly money.
00:37:01
Speaker
Wes, how do you feel about ah how did you feel when boxing went down with the with the injury? Yeah, you know, I think Boxy's obviously um more important as totem for the team at this point. um but i And I agree, I love Morristoggin, I love watching him play. I think that we're still, you know, when when Boxy comes back in, he's a little um little bit more vulnerable um with his speed, but I think that we still...
00:37:34
Speaker
can use him quite a bit. And so I think there's like one more step we need to see Duggan or anyone take to replace him. But it is nice to see him back in there and to see the the general, um the team progress. I think, you know, that we've had some times where you've got, um,
00:37:55
Speaker
ah Diaz has been pretty decent. You've you've got ah car Carlos Harvey. I guess he hes he's had his injury. I'm trying to think. Oh, Romero there as well. Romero is like has been up and down. But overall, that's a ah really good crew of the these center backs.
00:38:11
Speaker
um But man, yeah, boxy's still important with what he does. So yeah, losing him. But I mean, to to me, if we're talking about worst moments, it's that...
00:38:23
Speaker
How can you feel worse than watching us lose six nothing at at Vancouver? um Just absolute embarrassment. Just a a depressing watch. ah I always take Vancouver away as the game i take off of being a fan. I don't watch it with that game.
00:38:41
Speaker
because usually it comes in midsummer it's a perfect time where it's like you know what i should actually go see my friends and not talk about soccer but uh i unfortunately watched that game uh should have should have listened to my ah previous advice to myself but yeah that that game was embarrassment we we were i thought holy shit i think a lot of us did like we're going to be as bad as everyone predicted. um And thankfully that was the low point. And now we we've seen them recover a bit.
00:39:13
Speaker
Yeah, for me, that was definitely the the lowest point of the season, especially when it comes... what That was the third match into the into the season, or fourth? can't remember which was it was. It fourth match. It was fourth match of the season. So we're still getting to know Cameron Knowles as a head coach. And that was a point where I think everybody had to face it like, Oh, is cam going to be a competent head coach for one thing to how awful is this team?
00:39:47
Speaker
But also i think luckily we've seen as this of the season progresses, like one Vancouver is one of, if not the best team in MLS, obviously Nashville's up there now, like Nashville and Vancouver, I think everybody can agree are the two best teams in MLS.
00:40:05
Speaker
Um, Vancouver are crazy well-coached, crazy well-drilled. Their roster is... is Sebastian Berhalter and Tomas Muller in your midfield is a nightmare yeah um in MLS. um But i think it's also like... That's not even peak Muller.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah. The crazy part. This is tail end of career Muller. Yeah. So I think it also speaks to like, if you want to take an overall...
00:40:37
Speaker
look at the season so far, I think it really exposed the, the contrast of styles between Cameron Knowles and Ramsey because, and it's really exposing what kind of fan like people are like me as a fan, I prefer the style of attacking football that Cameron Knowles is trying to create. It's just better to watch. It's more exciting. Um, but at least with Ramsey ball, um,
00:41:03
Speaker
the team always looks structured no matter the roster that was playing in front of them. Like, so under Ramsey, you wouldn't get a blowout game like this, but under Cameron, if everything goes wrong in this system, it turns into the Vancouver match. And that truly was, i was not feeling good as a fan after that match was over. So I think that's a good shout there, Wes. Um,
00:41:31
Speaker
Another worst moment of the season for me losing to San Jose in the open cup. That was such a rollercoaster of a match to watch because there was moments of triumph. There was moments of this team is gritty. We're clawing back. Oh, oh, oh shit. Owen Jen is covering the back line and he just fell down and was humiliated.
00:41:55
Speaker
And then the team just takes, oh, okay. Well that was fun while it lasted. And then I turned it off. but That was, my relationship to that match. um Zoe, do what what do you remember about, did you watch the the San Jose Open Cup match?
00:42:12
Speaker
I did watch the San Jose Open Cup match and I did not finish said match. And that's rare for me. That's rare for me. I was so pissed.
00:42:24
Speaker
I commit to watching a game, especially live. I will watch it all the way through. I couldn't watch it. was just like...
00:42:34
Speaker
water what sideio How do you feel? I mean, that was definitely... a Yeah, well watched it watched it at the bar the watch party, late at night. It's almost midnight by the time ah by the time it ended. And it just...
00:42:50
Speaker
Man, what what a depressing game. it's It's such a bummer to lose also in a tournament where you you think like, this is our real shot at silverware. But, you know, San Jose took that game seriously. We took that game seriously. It was a blast. And they're a really great team. So ah at least at least we went for it. But yeah, it was just depressing. It it was depressing in it in a way that's way different than the Vancouver game, right? Here... It's a game we showed. We just kind of like, you know, tripped over our own shoelaces ah toward the end, especially with the the own goal that Padelford gave up.
Player Concerns & Transfers
00:43:25
Speaker
um But they were better than us. And I think, you know, the the thing so far I'm taking away in this season is that, you know, Cam is doing a really great job and the soccer is way more fun to watch.
00:43:39
Speaker
um and he And he's getting pretty decent results, but you it's it's revealing that the team is not particularly great, right? We don't have a real striker. Yeboah is by far not good enough. We don't have a backup really for Yeboah.
00:43:56
Speaker
And, you know, we we just, we don't have um many players who can really regularly produce magic. We have some really great players like, um ah you know, like Timothy Chalamet and Herrera, like those guys are are doing really like fun stuff, but they're not they're not really breaking the game up in that the way that like you saw how much hummus could do for us. ah and And we need what I don't know if we need Hamas, but we need someone
00:44:29
Speaker
of that of that kind of level of magic. And and boy, we need two or three signers. A playmaker. Yeah. A playmaker. For sure. um Another worst moment I have on here. um Maybe not worst moment, but worst trend of the season. Conceding the first goal in nine of our 15 matches is a trend I strongly dislike.
00:44:51
Speaker
um I went through last night and watched all of the highlight packages from all the matches, and I took note every time we conceded the first goal. Nine of 15 matches. I didn't count. That's not counting Open Cup matches. Yeah.
00:45:07
Speaker
Or is it? I can't remember. It was very late last night. um But very worrying trend in defense. I very much am worried about the defensive structure of the team.
00:45:17
Speaker
I like having a defense you can rely on. And I think... The depth of our back line is good enough to be a stalwart defensive team. I think it's the system. I think it's transition defending, especially set piece defending this year. This is another point I had is like shaky.
00:45:37
Speaker
Like, like we need to focus in this break of just. developing the defensive structure a little bit more because I love the the attacking patterns. I love how fluid it is. I love how much of the ball we're seeing. Love all those trends. But if you cra't can't transition, defend. If players don't know who's covering when and aren't comfortable covering for your center backs that want to get forward, like your Jefferson Diaz, like your Duggan, like Romero loves getting forward too when he's on the pitch. If...
00:46:12
Speaker
Jen isn't comfortable covering if, or whoever your defensive midfielder is. I just, I want to see the team get more comfortable with that. ah Zoe, do you have another worst moment or should we move on to the best moments of the season?
00:46:28
Speaker
um I maybe have somewhat of a worst moment, but the disappearance of Bongi, like,
00:46:41
Speaker
not to Not to quote the Taylor Twelman meme, but what are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing with the Bongi? have a Bongi pick. Is he supposed to be up front?
00:46:53
Speaker
Is he supposed to be a wingback?
00:46:59
Speaker
And we're just like not playing him. like Why we... Wes, but before I spout my bongi take, do you have thoughts on this? Yeah, as someone who, you know I've got my bongi nomo okufa, my bongi or death ah poster behind me. um i'm I'm a bonginista at heart. But I think the problem is that he's a guy who, when he's excelled, he is basically coming in and getting rebounds or he's he's acting almost like from the wing acting as a kind of, not a second striker, but someone who's kind of, in that orbit of of the attack and coming in late. um He's not great in possession though. And he's not, weirdly, he's not particularly fast. um And when we have these wingbacks, we need more possession. I think it's it's kind of hilarious that Kyle Duncan has come in
00:48:00
Speaker
and become the center of our um how we built the attack. to be It looks great, but it's I don't think it's a great um compliment to the team that he is in that role.
00:48:12
Speaker
um I don't think it says good things for our ceiling, at least. I've been super impressed with them. ah But I think that that that when you see what Duncan is bringing and you compare the play styles, it's like, well, yeah, man. Bongi does none of those things. His his distribution's poor. he doesn't um He doesn't work well in the production. He just works well kind of um finding finding goals. And I would rather see him trotted out as a striker when when we don't when we need to throw someone in for Yeboah or something. um We have tried that in the past and it didn't work, but I think...
00:48:51
Speaker
you know When we don't have other options, I think I'd rather see him do that. But it it it bums me out as well. but where Where is that man? I love him. and That's basically my bonky take. And I'm sorry, i think we might see him move on this summer transfer window. He's not seeing minutes. I don't think there is a place for him in the roster, especially for targeting a striker.
Season's Best Moments
00:49:13
Speaker
um Yeah.
00:49:15
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised if he goes somewhere else in MLS. I think he's proven that he can absolutely eat up minutes in your starting lineup. And he has great instincts in front of goal and great time. The thing I love about him most, I wish we could play him as a striker because his timing is great. He knows where to find space. All of his goals that he scored recently...
00:49:38
Speaker
have come on striker runs timed like off passes, uh, into the box. So unfortunately I just don't think there's room for him on the roster. I'm, I love him, but I think we'll see him move on in the summer transfer window.
00:49:53
Speaker
I'm very sorry to say, okay, we are running out of time and we still have to get to the best moments of the season. So let's, Do it. Okay. um um yeah I'm just going to throw it out here. um Am I going to go with what I think the actual best? Yeah, fuck it. I'm going to do it. My favorite moment, and I think one of the best moments of the season, is James coming in and the pair of assists that he gets in the um Austin match.
00:50:21
Speaker
um at home. um Some of my favorite goals I've ever seen the team score. um I mean, the first one is just like classic Minnesota United set piece goal, but and not set piece, but like service into the box finish goal.
00:50:37
Speaker
kind of goal. The second goal, the pass that he gives to Pereira and also like walk through the goal. Pereira saves the ball from going over the end line, shows off his dribbling skill, just dishes his to Thomas and to,
00:50:53
Speaker
Hamas just pokes it, just pokes it into the perfect spot. And Pereira is great. He knows exactly where the ball is going to be and he puts it away. What a great goal. Great moment at Allianz Field to have a legend of the game and Hamas Rodriguez, ah you know, get us leveled. And then, of course, Christian Ramirez, of course, has to ruin the the moment as he has want to do. Thanks, Superman. and We appreciate it.
00:51:18
Speaker
Just i'm casually three minutes later, I'm going to tie the matchup again. Wes? I was completely available for us to pick up. and we Why we didn't, I don't know. It bothers me so much.
00:51:30
Speaker
I suspect they didn't because they wanted to target a DP this summer and they didn't want to have this load of strikers there. But um I think think it was a dumb call. I think Ramirez is a guy who's going to get you eight to nine goals every season and we've never had...
00:51:46
Speaker
ah We've never had that kind of depth where we have those guys who do it. And and he's a freaking legend. yeah Fantastic dude. But it was a bummer to see him ruin that moment because I agree that that was getting to watch Thomas do that in the way that all those Columbia fans were were just who showed up every week with their jerseys and their flags that they got to to watch the show.
00:52:09
Speaker
um and I was kind of a ah Hamas doubter or just I but didn't really care about the signing and and getting to see that it really made me raid me like understand like, okay, this maybe we don't need Hamas, but that's what I thought about magic and like, this is really what you're missing. Just a guy who can do that and who can make Pereira go from B level to A minus. right that That's what you you get when you get something someone ah of his talent.
00:52:38
Speaker
Someone who elevates everyone around Yeah, yeah. 100%. Wes, do you have a moment that stands out?
00:52:49
Speaker
Yeah, the the game before that was just just the insane ah cocaine frenzy of the Columbus Crew-Minnesota United game where we go down two goals and then in the you the they score in the 56th minute and it's like, okay, game over. But then Yeboah gets a goal just a couple of minutes later. Then Yeboah scores another and then Markanich tops it off for the win. i mean, it was in 15 minutes, the Columbus crew just shat their pants and and it was a blast to watch. So that game was was stupid levels of fun.
00:53:27
Speaker
I think they were going fire the manager either way. Rystrom, was that his name? I can't remember yeah his name. yeah um yeah They were going fire him either way. But i would like I'd like to think that match was the reason. but That was the nail in the coffin of firing ah the head coach there. um Yeah, I mean, that's on my list too. ah like Like, what ah what a crazy thing to witness. And that's the thing about this team this season. I think one of the best moments is that the the team does have a culture of ah of fighting back when they get down a goal. I would rather them not be down early in matches. um I get enough of that from the other team in St. Paul. i'd I'd rather not, not get that. Yeah.
00:54:16
Speaker
Oh, so another another best moment of the season for me is ah Owen Jen's emergence as a starting level of midfielder.
00:54:27
Speaker
That was my boy. OK, I did not come out and publicly state it I should have because I would have been reaping what I sowed. But I saw it as soon as he started getting minutes. I'm just like this kid. This kid has got some casual swagger.
00:54:41
Speaker
This kid has got like got some skills and seems really calm.
Conclusion & Gratitude
00:54:46
Speaker
And finally, he breaks into the starting lineup and I don't think he's re likequiing relinquishing his spot anytime soon. Love you, Will Trapp.
00:54:54
Speaker
You're great. I would love to keep you on the roster because you're you're great. I love you. But Jenna's so much upside. A specific moment. His assist in the Dallas match when we go down there and just basically it's kind of a nothing game for a long time. And then Owen Jen gets a ton of space in the ball on the end line and just threads a pass through the defender's legs to I think it was Mark Canik gets the goal. Um, the kid's got skill. He's got calmness. He's still young. He's still developing. Um, but I feel so much better that we have a, a, a big skillful seems to be really smart defensive midfielder in our lineup that is going to continue to develop and hopefully we'll sell for a good fee down the line. Um, any thoughts on Owen Jen?
00:55:45
Speaker
um I am coming around to him more. um i still am. It's hard for me. i think well the only thing I'm holding back on it is that um I can't describe to you how he plays or what he does. And and so that kind of doesn't, i i I guess I just don't have a sense of him. What does he do tactically? Because I can describe Treontis and Trap really well.
00:56:11
Speaker
um And Jen is not quite as clear to me. um So it's harder harder for me to see all the ways that I think he can add to it. But then, you know, i look at him and then I'm like, yeah, but he has looked really solid in this game. And he's, you know, like that, those he's had some really good moments. So I'm, I'm still warming up to him, I guess I'll say.
00:56:36
Speaker
Zoe, any Owen Jen thoughts?
00:56:40
Speaker
I am by no means the level of Owen Gentruther like you are. But he's really... he saw an opportunity to step up, and he has, and he's being consistent.
00:56:58
Speaker
And I feel like that that's something that this team really needs, not just from its young players, but from...
00:57:11
Speaker
all of its players, a consistent level of play. And I feel like Duggan, like Chonklai,
00:57:24
Speaker
um people have rised the challenge, and there are a couple of players who are not so consistent.
00:57:37
Speaker
Wes, do you need to get out of here? Or do you have a few minutes to wrap up? ah let's do it Let's do a wrap up, but ah kind of going run in just a couple of minutes here. Okay. like Sounds good. Two or three minutes. Yeah.
00:57:48
Speaker
Okay. All righty. That's all we got for today. um i hope you all enjoyed this episode. I certainly did. We had Wes Burdine on. Thank you, Wes, so much for coming on the show. i hope you had an enjoyable experience.
00:58:04
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, guys. This is a blast. I hope hope to see both of you throughout this. We'll have a crazy World Cup season, but ah you and and your listeners, please come say hi. Sometimes I'm running around and doing things, and then like I get a chance to chill and watch some games, and it's fun to do that with with folks and and and just talk shit about grown men kicking a ball.
00:58:27
Speaker
The best. Also, congrats on the award from St. Paulie. Yes, we didn't even talk about that. Yeah, yeah, my Peace Prize. It's crazy. They just gave another one a couple months later and and people were like, oh.
00:58:41
Speaker
Oh, I didn't know it was a twice a year thing, but yeah. You got it first. but Yeah, I got it first. That's that's what matters. ah No, thank you. That was really cool. St. Pauli a team that I adore and love and and support heartily. And so getting them to to kind of send me something and and to to see what we were doing in Minnesota was really cool.
00:59:05
Speaker
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Loon Calling. i hope you follow the show. You can follow the show on Blue Sky and please leave a rating or review if you liked the episode.
00:59:16
Speaker
So yes, thank you so much and will catch you in the next one. Bye-bye. Yeah.