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19. Ice on Fire (1985) Album Review
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Born in 1979 and 1986 respectively, many would say that Dominic & Anthony are too young to be reviewing Elton John's solo studio albums from the 1970s and 1980s...but you can cry to heaven, because they're doing it anyway and are now looking at Elton's nineteenth effort: Ice on Fire. We've heard what the papers say...but what will Dom & Ant have to say?
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Welcome to Elton v Elton: The Album Battle! This is the podcast where two pals (Anthony & Dominic) & Elton fans rage over which of Elton's albums we think is the best. We'll be keeping score as we go, as we delve into each of Elton's solo studio albums, discussing the tracks individually, the musicians involved, the album art, random trivia, cover versions & anything else in between!
We'd love to hear from you with your ratings, opinions and any other insights into Elton's work you have. Drop us an email via eltonveltonpod@gmail.com
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Thanks go to everyone involved in bringing Elton's work to the bigger stage, James Cook (http://www.jamescookcomedian.com/) & Paul Savage (https://www.instagram.com/savagecomics_/) who inspired the format of this show and Zapsplat.com for the SFX. Research for the show was done using songfacts.com, , eltonchords.com, https://www.eltonography.com/ and Elton’s autobiography 'Me'.
You can find Dominic on https://www.facebook.com/dominicberry/ and on his poetry website https://dominicberry.net/
You can find Anthony on two other podcasts: Enough of the Falafel (featuring the Vegan Week & Vegan Talk shows) and The Brambling Along Podcast
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Until next time it’s goodbye from Captain Dom-tastic & the Brown Dirt Ant-boy!
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Transcript
Introduction & Historical Context
00:00:00
Speaker
It is 4th of November 1985. The long-lost wreck of the Titanic has just been discovered. Can Elton John discover his chart-topping form with his latest album, Ice on Fire?
Podcast Overview & Hosts Introduction
00:00:15
Speaker
I'm Dominic. And I'm Anthony. And you are listening to Elton vs. Elton, The Album Battle.
00:00:39
Speaker
Welcome everyone. This is episode 19 of Elton versus Elton, the album battle. This is the podcast where me and Dominic, two pals who love the music of Elton John rage over which of his albums we love the best and the least best. So obviously big props to everyone involved in bringing Elton's music to the masses and to the slightly lesser known comedians, James Cook and Paul Savage. whose original podcast gave us the idea for this show's format. If you want to hear previous episodes, they're all out there or previous 18 solo studio albums of Elton's. We've done an episode for all of them. We've also done a trailer podcast so you can hear a bit more about me and Dominic and what made us do this crazy, crazy thing.
Challenges of Reviewing Elton's 1980s Albums
00:01:24
Speaker
The more albums that goes on, the crazier it does feel because it's, ah you know, ah it's one thing reviewing the early 70s stuff. But when we get to the 80s, with which we're less familiar. Oh, yeah. Being fair. Being fair. That's the name of the game. But before we go any further, let us give you the answer to the trivia teaser in our last episode. We asked how many of the 10 tracks in Breaking Hearts were done in one take. It's thought to be the highest percentage of one's in Elk's career.
00:01:54
Speaker
Anthony, what's the answer? Do you want to a guest, Dominic? i've I've looked. Anthony has a little um ah sort of running list on ah on a sort of document thing, but yeah he hides it. You have to scan over it. And usually I don't look. I have looked. It's six. It's six. Six. Yeah. Impressive, that, isn't it? in Well, I don't know. I'm always impressed when people spend absolutely ages writing their songs, like Leonard Cohen, spending like years and years tampering around with different verse structures. so yeah no i don't think it's impressive anthony think hard graft is impressive that's what i yes so i mean that was our previous episode we were reviewing breaking hearts which came out in june 1984 uh it peaked at number two in the uk number 20 in the us probably the two most notable tracks on it passengers and sad songs we rated it
00:02:52
Speaker
pretty highly in many regards. There were some tracks that let it down, but it is currently standing out of the 18 albums we have reviewed. It is currently standing at number 12. And I think it was more or less the same for both of us, Dominic. It was your 11th favourite and my 13th favourite.
00:03:12
Speaker
But it's, some yeah, it's it's done okay there, hasn't it? I think...
Album Rankings & Global Context of 1985
00:03:17
Speaker
i When I said it was impressive to do six tracks in their first take, some of those tracks I will have liked, some of them.
00:03:25
Speaker
I would say, yeah, you can tell you've only done that in one. Yeah. um Those of you that are new to the podcast, or maybe you want a little reminder as to how our chart is going at the bottom of the chart at the moment is victim of love in 18th, followed by 21 at 33 and blue moves. They're the bottom three, our top three, number one, captain fantastic and the brown cowboy followed by don't shoot me. I'm only the piano player. And in third,
00:03:53
Speaker
Tumbleweed connection with a surprise entry at number four, The Fox. Yay, The Fox! I wonder whether Ice on Fire will will be another surprise entry. Goodness me. There's a lot to say about Ice on Fire, a lot to say. I do want to say, if you've not listened to our Victim of Love One, even though we've got it last, we do a lot of really...
00:04:15
Speaker
fair consideration i i i defend a lot of the songs on that i think that um yeah that the the whole is less than the the sum of its parts i think there's bits on it that are really really good but um yeah will that be what i think of ice on fire before we go into that what we usually do is say a little bit of global context what was happening around the world at the time this records recording well on march the 15th symbolics.com was registered what is significant about symbolics.com well that is the very first internet domain name i mean so says anthony i'm just reading what he's written i'm believing anthony's uh i have it right now dominic and it also claims to be on the website so they've lied twice if they are What do know is that in July, simultaneous Live Aid concerts were held in London and Philadelphia, raising millions for African famine relief. September the 1st, a joint US-French expedition discovers the long lost wreckage of the RMS Titanic. off the coast of Newfoundland. When this album was released, the UK number one was The Power of Love by Jennifer Rush. Whilst in the USA, it was dire straits with money for nothing.
00:05:40
Speaker
Oh, I do love a bit of dire straits. I have to say I've got a real soft spot. They're a group who I don't know so much about, actually. I mean, I know the big hits, but I've not done ah a deep dive into the into the albums as have done.
00:05:54
Speaker
To be fair, to be fair, nor have I, and this podcast project with you, Dominic, looking at the the greater known and lesser known bits of Elton has encouraged me that actually, yeah, stuff where you know the hits, why don't you why don't you dig around see what else you can
Collaborations & Musical Direction in 'Ice on Fire'
00:06:09
Speaker
find? um In Elton's life at the moment, Elton himself was at the a historical Live Aid concert. He was in London at Wembley Stadium. So that was, who what, couple of months, three months before this album was released. 1985 also marked the launch of a major charitable project that Elton was involved with. He collaborated with Dionne Warwick, Gladys Knight and Stevie Wonder on the single That's What Friends Are For, which was released to raise funds for HIV and AIDS research. The song became a massive global hit and ignited Elton's lifelong dedication to AIDS advocacy. Yeah. So this album is really significant because the previous one was the last one to have the classic band. And oh my goodness, does he ah change things up with who is featured on this album today. So we've got Roger Taylor and John Deacon from Queen. They are on track five. um They will reappear on future Elton John releases. We've got a Sister Sledge singing backing vocals on track one. George Michael ah is, I would argue, that Wrap Her Up is is a duet, although he's not credited as such on the single release. We do have Davy Johnson on electric and Spanish and synth guitar we got nick kershaw appearing on tracks four and seven there really is a lot of different people on this record gus dudgeon is uh doing arrangements we have elton playing piano and synthesizers uh fred mandel joins in on a whole load of synthesizers as well. um Yeah, there's quite a fair bit of brass as well. Like considering some of these records have been quite bare bones, this is kind of kitchen sink when it comes to how many different instruments are played.
00:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's what's interesting as well, there was quite a big shift in sound from Elton's first album, Empty Sky, and his second one, which was eponymous called Elton John. And a big part of that is attributed to Gus Dudgeon and Paul Buckmaster coming on the scene, not as primary musicians, but as you know, orchestral arrangers, producers, people like that. And I think I'm right in saying, Dominic, that now with though Gus Duggen is still involved, he's still involved in this album too. It's more sort of on individual tracks. It it doesn't seem like Elton's giving him carte blanche to sort of produce the whole sound of the album. Would that be fair to say?
00:09:06
Speaker
I shall take your word for it. Yeah. I'm just looking at this. It says he's on tracks three, five, six, and 10. Whereas previous albums, I think Gus was sort of credited with producing the whole album, which is interesting. I'd be interested to know what the decision process was for that. Who's driving that, you know, would he like to be doing the whole thing? Yeah. Saying, oh, well do a bit for you, but I've not got time to do the whole album or, But it is a real shift in sound and people seeing Gus's name might have thought, all right, we're back to that classic early 1970s production. And my word, no, we're not. It's a very different beast indeed.
'Ice on Fire' Reception & Personal Experiences
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, indeed. So in the build up to this album being released, Elton claimed in May, so this is sort of best part of five, six months before it was released, he claimed to have already recorded 18 songs for the new album, whilst also stating his desire to record additional material are we going to have another blue moves double album on our hands um well no there are 10 tracks on this album um and some material quote left over from the sessions were included on the next album leather jackets which we will feature in our next episode elton had originally intended to work with chris thomas as producer for this album however he was quote unavailable At this time in Elton's career, it feels like a lot of people are saying, hmm, wasn't the best fun to be ah working with at the moment. So I wonder wonder how busy Chris Thomas's diary actually was. I'm just speculating there. That's me just having a chuckle. I'm not actually accusing anyone of anything. John also asked Trevor Horn to produce, who was interested, but ultimately... too busy seeing a theme here and so Gus Dudgeon did come on board like i say for four tracks first time they've worked together since Blue Moves in 1976 the album was recorded at The Soul in Cookham in Berkshire i don't think we've had that as a recording studio before inspired by Tina Turner's massively successful Private Dancer album
00:11:23
Speaker
in 1984, Elton decided to utilise multiple rhythm sections for his next album rather than a single band line-up. Maybe that will feature in Mina Dominic's reviewing and analysis of things. In terms of how well it did, well, we'll start off with some positives. It peaked at number two in Norway and in Australia. He's doing quite well in Australia in the 80s, I notice. He got married there too in the 80s, didn't he? Maybe that's a a theme, it actually reached number three in the UK too. It was the third biggest selling album in Switzerland across the whole of 1986. USA not doing so well. And I'd say that's a general theme for the eighties. Certainly the last few albums he's been doing arguably better in the UK than in the US by quite a long way, peaking at number 48. in the US Billboard charts. Dominic, had you heard this album? Had you heard of this album before we started going through Elton's albums chronologically? Not at all. And I've listened to it a large number of times, especially for this. One thing or another has happened in either Anthony's life or my life that has prevented us from recording this show we're recording at this moment. And reckon that's been thing that is of of of helped to because i've listened to it more each time we've delayed recording to this i've put it on again so that's really really good all i knew was nikita off of the very best of elton john which i never really liked i always felt it was a bit of a of one that didn't live up to the highs of Don't Go Breaking My Heart, or I guess that's why they call it the blues, in my opinion. When we do get onto Nikita, I will say that I think that song really sounds good in this context. and is once once you've listened to the opening track this town and you kind of get a feel for what the production is think nikita is ah is a wonderful example of that kind of production however because it is a different kind of production i think it sounds less good on a compilation next to the classic 70s sound like when when that dominates a best of then nikita doesn't really stand out and yeah it's a great song It's the only one I knew. I'd never heard Wrapper Up before. Never heard it. I might never listen to Wrapper Up again. yeah I was silently thinking that,
Song Reviews: 'This Town' to 'Shoot Down the Moon'
00:13:58
Speaker
but we shouldn't give too much away. I too, Dominic, had never listened to this album before we started this project.
00:14:06
Speaker
i not heard of it either. And, um, I will say just my only sentiment towards it was we we've had a varied run of reviews for Elton's work in the eighties. If we start with victim of love in 1979, these, these rankings are out of 18, we've done 18 albums so far. So starting with victim of love, we've done the album that we've placed 17th, fourth,
00:14:34
Speaker
fifteenth equal sixth and twelfth. So I think it's fair to say my sentiment upon listening to it was, oh, I really do hope it's good because we've had a few rocky ones as well as some some albums that we've really rated quite highly. And um yeah, I don't want to give too much away. i I think there's highs and lows in this album.
00:14:56
Speaker
Let's start as we always do with our sort of reviewing discussions by talking about the album artwork. It is a picture of Elton Again, not looking very happy. That's ah a general theme of his his album artwork. He's wearing a, well, it's almost like a black fedora hat, isn't it? It's, um yeah, something like that. How would you describe that bowiee it's sort of a droopy checker bow bow tie. It's all in black and white. but It almost looks like a ah sort of pathos clown bow tie, would you say, Dominic? I would say that it's an awful bow tie and an awful photo. And, you know, so many you think of like his success and, you know, so many of his albums just look so awful. And yet like once in a while, he knocks out the park. I just did whilst you were chatting a random Google search. I just typed in Elton album covers and was just looking and I'd say it's pretty much hit, miss, hit, miss, hit, miss in my subjective view. But i look at like his greatest hits album cover from 1974. That's a photo of him in a white suit ah with sunglasses on by piano. Fantastic And I'm going to go to the show. You're like, come on, right? There are good photographers and there are good artists. Like, how difficult is it just to take a good photo? You know, oh, that's a great photo. Ice on fire. Awful.
00:16:30
Speaker
Awful. Just like really, really bland. Really bland. And just, you know, yeah. And as well, I mean, you know, that there might be things that stylistically we say, oh, I'm not a massive fan of that, or that doesn't really seem to do it for me, but at least it's thematic. Whereas is this, like, if you looked at that and said, name that album, come what do you think this is about? What do you think this is called? There's nothing about that that says ice on fire it's almost like a paparazzi photo because elton doesn't look like he wants to be in the photo and you know like what the bow tie is just incongruous with him like kind of looking nice it's awful and all the worse for being in black and white like really yeah it doesn't match the sound at all like you know this town is is not summarized by that photo No, I would agree. And this town is the first track. So let's get on and start discussing the tracks.
00:17:29
Speaker
So
00:17:46
Speaker
If I may, Dominic, I'm going to first. I was proper excited hearing this track, opening track of the album. We've generally said, actually, even if we've not been a massive fan of an album as a whole, generally the opening tracks tend to be strong, grab your attention.
00:18:04
Speaker
And I would say for my money, this town really does that well. Really strong, distinctive sound. We've got quite a um synthetic bass it's certainly a strong bass it's quite an echoey bass real strong brass section it is a real brass section I think we were in the car together listening to this the first time I heard it Dominic or one of them and I think I said there's no way that's a real brass section because it's really fast and punchy and quite high And it's in terms of what it's about, um so it is apparently a commentary on the decline of the rust belt.
00:18:41
Speaker
I had to look this up. Wikipedia describes the rust belt or the steel belt or the factory belt is an area of the US that underwent substantial industrial decline US. In the late 20th century. So the Great Lakes, Mid-Atlantic regions of the US. And that's that's epitomized by the lyrics too, isn't it, Dominic? Like it's it's talking about folk down and out. Would that be a fair synopsis? Yeah, I think that it's a strong Elton ah melody with a strong Bernie lyric. I think that um I really liked Restless, the opening track off previous album Breaking Arts. I like this even more. And if there's one song that justifies getting rid of the whole band with whom he's done a billion records and had loads of hits, I think this town, I think... um
00:19:35
Speaker
I think this is my favourite song off the record, even more than Nikita. I think, um yeah, that the synth is fantastic. i like He does it eat as a little bit of scatting at the end, a little bit of... be baroo do do do And, you know, Sister Sledge are all going, cha-cha-chains, which is glorious. ah Yeah, it's... um It's great. It's really exciting and urgent. Yeah.
00:20:02
Speaker
I think the lyrics are really vivid and really paint a story. I mean, that that there's not loads of them. There's sort of, including the chorus, there's five stanzas. Most of them are just three lines long. But it it reminds me of early Bernie lyrics where he's painting a picture, telling story, transporting you to a place.
00:20:25
Speaker
I mean, the sound is completely different to those early 70s, mid 70s lyrics. But um yeah, it does. good How do you feel about those backing vocals, Dominic? Because you've said in the past backing vocals that over dominate Elton and ah maybe like predominantly females are very different to Elton's voice. Haven't been your favourite. No, that's how I felt about Victim of Love, that I thought that Elton's lead vocals weren't that leading. um i mean I mean, I think this has got stuff in common with with Victim of Love. This is like Victim of Love done right, this song, and I adore Sister Sledge.
00:21:00
Speaker
Was it Sister Sledge on Yell Help from Rock of the Westies? Sister Sledge has been involved in other things, for sure. ah Yell Help is part of a three-song medley, though, isn't I'm sure it's Sister Sledge going, yell hell!
00:21:17
Speaker
but I'm sure it is. But yeah, ah i i love it. i love I love this song. And ah yeah, I don't think that the backing vocals ah dominate, nor do I think, like when I found out Dusty Springfield did backing on the bitches back, was like, you can't even tell what a waste getting her involved when she's such a huge talent and you wouldn't know. Yeah, it's brilliant. It's really, really good, Sister Sledge's contribution. Yeah, love, love, love, love. Should we move on to track two? Cry to Heaven.
00:21:51
Speaker
This has got a video, Dominic. Have you seen the video of this one? Because I know you you you do like watching an Elton video. I have seen the music video. And yeah, it's good. It's good. It's a good video for a good song. I wish this had been a bigger hit. um i I wasn't even aware it had been a single. I think he sings it really sincere.
00:22:11
Speaker
And i like that. I like that. The video's very sincere as well, isn't He's singing up to the camera. He's really staring us down. Yeah, yeah it's a great lyric. um I am a fan of when words aren't about things that everyone else writes words about, like baby's got blue eyes, you know. I'm really, yeah, it's grand. Yeah.
00:22:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I just want to spend a bit more time on on the video before I talk about the music. It does feature Elton dressed up as a clown. Oh, yeah. It also features a toddler wearing a beret. This was in the days before green screen and and proper like...
00:22:54
Speaker
you know, video effects. So you've got it sort of superimposed, this this baby wearing a, ah or to a toddler, sorry, wearing a beret, waddling along in front of like a JCB exploding. it's like It's a video that ah asks more questions than answers. It's definitely worth worth a view. Anthony, Anthony, Anthony, it's LaBelle who did ah Yell Help, not Not. Ah. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
00:23:22
Speaker
This music video is fantastic. It's is of its time, isn't it? You've got to, like, put yourself in the mindset of someone watching music videos. It's great. Yeah, love it.
00:23:34
Speaker
I'm a fan of this song. I will say it took me by surprise after This Town. This Town is so punchy and Cry to Heaven is very slow, echoey.
00:23:47
Speaker
it's In a sense, it's got a similar sound to it and in that you've got lots of synth and sort of, I'd say both tracks, it points almost sound like they're being played through a pipe or something like that. There's an interesting sort of metallic echoey resonance to them um it's an anti-war song it's an anti-conflict song generally the lyrics aren't too on the nose i would say yeah i'm i'm a fan of it it's not something i could listen to all day every day but yeah it's it's decent isn't it and there's a do you like that effect that they have um i think it's under the last
00:24:24
Speaker
verse He's he's so talking about, I saw a black cat tease a white mouse, and there's sort of like ah a synthetic violin noise that comes back a few times. i i think it's I think it's a nice one. It's an interesting one. It's it's not, um it I don't know, maybe it's a little bit cringe at points. No, no, it's not. It's sincere. it's It's great. It's really, really good. Two strong songs to start with. Two really good ones. To start with. yeah And then, and then it's it's maybe Anthony's second least favourite word after boogie.
00:25:04
Speaker
We've got the word soul in there. Artie Ziff in his Hawaii shirt, white man with an afro, has put away the word boogie and is bringing out soul glove.
00:25:15
Speaker
Is there anything redeeming to be said about soul glove other than the fact that it's not misogynistic, racist, homophobic? I think that... I i dislike Songglove. In my opinion, i think... It's got a good horn section.
00:25:32
Speaker
Got good brass bit. Well, it hasn't. It hasn't. I think that the the horn section is let down by the the kind of production it feels to me... to me it feels a little bit a little bit naff a little bit you know i i i think that the words are because we are listening to these as albums so the words are jarring after cry to evan i hear what you say that this town and cry to heaven are really contrasting topics but they sound important these are well and And they've got a consistent sound, yeah I would say, whereas Soul Glove is just ah a really, I don't know, it's it's a bit anodyne, it's a bit artificial, but in a kind of forgettable way. Whereas, although This Town and Cry to Heaven... have the synth sound and the 80s kind of electronic thing. Like, it's interesting and it's original, whereas Soul Glove, it's it's so forgettable.
00:26:32
Speaker
And it's track three on an album in which you have Nikita. Like, if Nikita was track three, what a great yeah hat trick that would be. Like, really... I really think the the lyrics are poor as well. Like the first two tracks, This Town and and Cry to Heaven, like Bernie's done a great job with the lyrics. I mean, we haven't especially mentioned Bernie thus far in it other than to sort of in a take for granted way say that, oh yeah, Bernie's writing the lyrics. Like we shouldn't overlook the fact that he's only just kind of back on the scene full time here again.
00:27:09
Speaker
But Soul Glove, I had to proper read through it to try and understand what it's about. And even then, i wasn't sure. You say today was not so easy. Pressure tends to get the better ah to get the best of you. Well, don't let them break your spirit. Keep the faith and you will come on through. it With all due respect, it sounds a bit more Gary Osborne than Bernie. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. It's it's really one-dimensional.
00:27:37
Speaker
i like i I think it almost sounds like a parody song as well. Like if there was a comedy show of like, you know, smooth group kind of doing a, you know, seducing the ladies, you know, it's like, yeah.
00:27:50
Speaker
Yeah. Oh no, they're not seducing the ladies, Dominic, because cheating hangs a noose around your neck. To shave in someone else's mirror is one desire I haven't dreamed of yet. I will say that is one line I do like shave in someone's someone else's that's a great that's a great euphemism for sleeping around isn't it yeah i did like that so that gets a couple marks from me yeah it's not my least favorite song off the record it isn't there's songs that i like less um but yeah um i when you think
00:28:22
Speaker
So so ah teaser, teaser fans, teaser, next podcast, I will be the person really defending a lot of leather jackets. And I i don't yet know, maybe Anthony later on will enlighten me, which of the songs left off, because some of the leather jacket songs are allegedly songs left off of Ice on Fire.
00:28:43
Speaker
I think... Soul Glove is worse than any song on leather jackets. It's definitely not better. that It's definitely not better than anything. I i do think the the horn section of Soul Glove, if if you if you put like, I don't know, Tony Christie singing on top of Soul Glove or something that is just like embracing the cheese, yeah i do think like the the arrangement is good.
00:29:12
Speaker
But I think the trouble is the song is being sincere in which... And a following Cry to Heaven. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. We should move on, Dominic. We should move on, particularly because the next track, as you've hinted at, is Nikita.
00:29:27
Speaker
5 minutes 42 long, significantly longer than the other tracks thus far on the album. It was released by Rocket as its lead single from this album shortly before the album itself on the 4th of October. It charted at number three on the UK singles chart. it peaked at number seven in the US. There is a person called Nikita, an East German border guard patrolling the Berlin Wall, whom he cannot meet because he's not allowed into East Germany, apparently. Though the name Nikita can refer to women in other languages, it is a male name in Russian. And yeah, it's it's it's a big hit, that's for sure, isn't it? It was on the on the very best of album, as well as many other...
00:30:12
Speaker
many other best of hits what are your general feelings for for nikita dominic you've said it's not your absolute favorite but in the context of this album oh it's close though i mean it's close to this town um i felt like i hadn't heard the song before when i when i heard it even even you know i've i've listened to it following soul glove in which anything would sound great um But then I've also just like listened to it in the general vibe of you know what what is created by by this town and and Cry to Heaven. And yeah, I think that it, as I said earlier, serves better when you're in the mindset of this. It's fantastic. And I feel ashamed that I didn't. I was really moved. It felt like I was listening to it for the first time.
00:30:56
Speaker
And I felt ashamed to have been a bit dismissive of it because it's really... really heartfelt and really different from, from anything Elton had done and quite different from, yeah, it's, it's great, really powerful.
00:31:15
Speaker
I think it is the classic thing of the record, dis the record company's decision to launch a certain single first, i.e. it's the one they think is the best, giving it a bit of extra polish. And you can just hear that in the sound quality, the production values. It's not that they've added sound effects or anything like that, but it's just right. Like everything's really crisp and and put together with like the absolute best levels. Definitely not a one take. wonder like um Breaking Hearts. And I mean, obviously the context of of when it came out in 1985, the fact that there is it's very obviously Cold War themed um in in in the references it's it's making um and the the the longing of things that can't be together and and the political bent in there as well. Like that's that's capturing the zeitgeist, isn't it? But I think particularly because historically
00:32:14
Speaker
those institutions and those global political structures were starting to not crumble at that point, but I think people were more openly questioning them. um So i think there's i think there's something politically to be said in favour of that. But yeah, that sounds great. that The horns are being used in ah in a slightly different way in this track, aren't they? But it's you know they're not as...
00:32:37
Speaker
brash as this town but it's yeah it's is's done just right on my copy of the very best of elton john the cd skipped at the start of verse two um so when he sings uh do you ever read the letters that i write i always hear that uh it's it's one of those where it's weirder to hear it yeah yeah I had the same with the Jamaica Jerk Off on Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, obviously ah two very different tracks. But yeah, great lyric, great composition by Elton and um great backing and overall sound. It's ah it's a banger for sure.
00:33:19
Speaker
Unlike Too Young. but Now, now, Dominic, now, I wouldn't call it a banger. In fact, I mean, you know, when we get onto the subject of the song, calling it a banger is perhaps ah equally as inappropriate as the subject matter. yet again, Bernie's going here. Yet again, we get it, Bernie, we get it. We get it.
00:33:41
Speaker
Oh, man. it So I find several things quite interesting about this. If you've not picked up listeners from from what we're inferring here, or sorry, we're implying it, you might be inferring it. This is another song where Bernie is writing about the forbidden lust of somebody that is a bit too young for us. In fact, it feels like having it's it's like he's not had the validation from previous albums isn't it so now he's he's just coming out with it like right i'm gonna call this song too young and i'm gonna repeatedly tell you about it whereas previous tracks it's been sort of hinted at or maybe one verse has been about it yeah the the chorus how many times have they told you that you're too young how how i've ached to hold you but you're too young
00:34:29
Speaker
h However, Dominic, I've got a soft spot for it. I think Elton thinks it really well. He really does well. it well it' so And it's put together well.
00:34:40
Speaker
I am a bit less of a fan of the guitar. I think the guitar, in my opinion, it's a bit it's a bit cheesy, the guitar. I think that, you know, it's... um and it's And it's long, it's slow, and and I get a bit bored of it by the end song. Well, it's one of those where he goes back and starts singing the first verse again later on, doesn't he? I like how it builds up and it's, it's believable. It's, we've talked about this on previous episodes in terms of like, you know, you don't have to fully agree with the message of a song to appreciate it or for artistically it to be conveying the message. or the character, or the theme of what you're talking about. And obviously, when I'm defending it, please don't misunderstand what I'm saying there.
00:35:30
Speaker
But I think, like you say, Dominic, he sings it really sincerely, and you can feel it. that I mean, it does... It does take it too far. If we don't buy what's right or wrong, then we're singers. and Then we're sinners. We were never two to tag along, but we were always winners. I mean, that's probably the weakest stanza, rhyming wise and theme wise. And it's the one he gets Queen to be on. It's the one of all the songs, of all the songs.
00:36:00
Speaker
He gets like John Deacon and Roger Taylor on this one and Kiki D as well. My much ah beloved Kiki D, who I'll speak more of when we get on to wrap her up. But um yeah, yeah. Like there's there's real talent on it. So I sent Dominic a really weird video that I found on YouTube when researching for the show. I wonder if you got a chance to watch it, Dominic, over Elton doing an informal jam at the Savoy.
00:36:31
Speaker
Oh, I don't remember. Maybe I did. Go on. So it's him on a grand piano at the Savoy hotel. And there's, I'm going to say about 20 well-to-do looking people surrounding the piano. And they're, they're singing along to some random old number. It's not an Elton classic or anything like that.
00:36:52
Speaker
but they're having a lovely time and it's being filmed. Presumably it's on TV or something like that. And then, oh, and Michael Parkinson is there as well. So adding to the chance that it's on the telly and everyone's having a good time. And then one of them prompted beforehand or otherwise says, Elton, why don't you play us something off your new album? And he says, oh, okay. Okay. And he starts doing some chords and he starts singing too young. Yeah. So to start with, the words start with, your mother's eyes look straight through me. Okay, yeah, fine. Whenever we meet, your father swears it will never be as long as he breathes. Okay, yeah, fine. And how many times have they told you that you're too young? How? How I've ached to hold you, but you're too young. And you can see these people's faces going, what is he singing? And then, and then it just cuts out.
00:37:48
Speaker
So I think the producer is just like, we need, we need to go to an ad, go to an ad. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. said
00:38:00
Speaker
ah that yeah But you know what you know what? I really ripped into 21 at 33 for not being a group of songs I feel hold together well. And then I praised The Fox for all its different lyric writers for being so strong as a collection. I don't feel Ice on Fire is is consistent at all. I would love to hear. You know, Nikita is a love song, yet it
00:38:31
Speaker
talks deeply about global politics think that the you know we as does this town i mean maybe not global politics yeah yeah not what's happening in the world at the time of recording really yeah i want an album of that and yeah that there's there's so much fluff you know so much and i know i know that the the to the to protagonists in this fictional piece of writing yeah this is like the most important thing ever but when it's well trodden ground for bernie torpins as well you just think oh you know why why why it's like it's like someone said to bernie like what Bernie, what would you say are the most pressing issues in the world today? And he's like, wow, it's awful how people are going to war. So, you know, that's why I put together Cry to Heaven and The Division. That's why I've written Nikita and, you know, industrial towns are being, you know, torn down. So that's why I've written this town and... Of course, you know, the age of consent is way too high. What? Sorry? What? yeah Yeah. Only joking, Bernie. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. i i
00:39:38
Speaker
yeah I would love to hear a whole album of, of you know, more weighty stuff. ah This isn't my least favourite song on Ice on Fire. I prefer everything from Leather Jackets to Too Young.
00:39:53
Speaker
I've said it. I've said it. I stand by, stand by what I said. Yeah. Even, even Dominic, as we flip over to side two, wrap her up.
00:40:04
Speaker
You hinted earlier, that might be a song you never listen to again. And I definitely, I think I've only listened to this all the way through once. Have you watched the music video?
00:40:15
Speaker
I started to, honestly. oh my goodness. I quite like the music video. So at the end, you didn't see the end. um ah So George Michael does make a big appearance at the very, very end. It's very much pitched as an Elton solo. single music video and just ah George Michael's vocals are not by him until the end and then he leaps on stage and it's great to see them having fun and then at the end of this song they just list a load of um
00:40:49
Speaker
female singers uh one of whom is kiki d and it's nice to hear george michael go kiki d i don't think george michael gives a monkeys about kiki d i don't think he'd ever even heard a kiki d it's just like elton said oh sing sing my friend's name please george sigma but then um uh as he sings it elton gives kiki d kiki rises up between the two of them she likes slow motion rise up big smile and elton john puts a uh a pie in her face. He slaps her with like a, a whipped cream pie, ah which is, so I think, I think you're, you're demonstrating the main problem with this is that, yeah, they're having fun.
00:41:33
Speaker
And that sounds like a great thing to watch. You called it a song. I don't think it's a song. I don't think it's a piece of music. I think there's some rhythm and there's some melodic instruments playing and occasionally,
00:41:47
Speaker
there are melodic bits of singing that go on. But for me, it's it's six minutes of noise and great. If you want to have a fun time together, that's fantastic. I don't begrudge that of anyone, but recording it and putting it on a music album, I just don't understand it.
00:42:03
Speaker
ah I don't glean any enjoyment from this at all. I think it's awful. So is it... a genre of music that just isn't to our tastes oh so i'm a big fan of fat boy slim so all the night is big beat dance and a recurring vocalist on fat boy slim records is bootsy collins and bootsy collins has got such a wonderful voice you can hear him on certain versions of groove is in the heart so i got the very best of bootsy collins
00:42:37
Speaker
solo stuff like really early like this and it's it's very rhythm based it's and i was shocked i was expecting on a best of it to be more commercial and it's that kind of like george clinton funk you know the the stuff that prince does in his more you know rhythm led stuff and you know i think okay there's a there's a there's a there's a fan base for that i think that Those songs have a certain, I mean, I find them boring. I find those songs boring, but there's certain gravitas and weight to them. Whereas what Rapper Up has got is it's very rhythm led. It's very long and it's very silly. It's very silly. And I think there's only so long you can listen to people laughing at their own joke that you're not, know, Yeah, that that sums it up perfectly really because it yeah, this has sold relatively well because it's George Michael and Elton John.
00:43:45
Speaker
And I think they're having a good time because it's the two of them and others, you know, having a jam and what have you, but to to listen to... I'd be interested, people who did like stuff like Bootsy Collins, I'd be interested what they made of it, because it was a big hit. And is it just Emperor's New Clothes? Is it that, like, it's big stars and it's the follow-up to Nikita, so he's, you know, ride the wave. I mean, I don't think this has ever been on any best of, I don't think. And it was a hit. It was a hit. And yet, it's not.
00:44:18
Speaker
really remembered is it i'd never heard it i rank this alongside um bite your lip get up and dance i think it's that kind of song for me Yeah.
00:44:31
Speaker
I, I, yeah, I, I, I do understand that different people have different tastes in sounds. You know, some people listen to what is called music that just sounds like industrial machinery operating. I'm quite fond of that. Yeah. Like really, really heavy metal. Like foot for me, it just doesn't do it. And I do it, you know, if if that's what does it for you, then that's absolutely great. Good for you. But for me, ah I can't dig it at all. It it got to number six in Luxembourg. that There can't have been many other tracks for sale, I think. Reached number 12 in the UK, number 20 in the US. So it it did almost twice as well as that as the whole album did in in the US. It only came...
00:45:16
Speaker
um I'm going to tell you an industrial music fact that's got absolutely nothing to do with this record at all. Kiki D, her wonderful song Perfect Timing, which is a minor hit,
00:45:32
Speaker
as is an industrial it's a pop song but it's in dust it's got people banging metal pipes and dustbin lids together for the percussion on it and it sounds wonderful it's one for your playlist Anthony one okay and it's better than better than a contribution to wrap her up um I think this music video is a lot like David Bowie and Mick Jagger dancing in the street you know Although like legend and says that they really weren't getting along. That would have been the same time as well, wasn't it? Because that's the Live Aid song and Live Aid was this year. So I wonder, I wonder, I wonder, Live Aid was a bit before this album, but wasn't it?
00:46:12
Speaker
A few months, yeah. Yeah. So I wonder if this literally was, because it was a huge hit for Bowie and Jagger. I wonder if they were influenced by that because it's got that sort of...
00:46:25
Speaker
daftness going on yeah they they thought what we need to do is just get two big names and getting them being daft together what they didn't realize was dancing in the street like has a tune yeah you know mean wrap her up is not one you're going to whistle whilst walking down the road is it so dominic and i have started sharing provisional scores with each other before Before we start recording, we didn't do this for the first few shows, but we've started doing it.
00:46:53
Speaker
So I'm interested to hear why he likes the next track, Satellite, so much. Oh, I read do i really do. really do. I'm interested to hear why you dislike it so much. I think the production... new tune. you go. Oh, do you know what? Maybe we're going back to our industrial type thing. I think, so I mean, Fat Boy Slim doesn't have a tune. you what mean? Fat Boy Slim is mostly repetitive stuff. But Fat Boy Slim never wrote your song or Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting or Candle in the Wind. Like, i I don't listen to Fat Boy Slim for the tune, whereas Elton do and the progressions. That's why i like why I like his music. So if if it If it sounds like a one chord just shouting things out, then it's not going to do it for me. So I think it is spacey. I think it's got an interesting production that feels a bit otherworldly. I think the lyrics are quite...
00:47:59
Speaker
enigmatic they're not bernie's best but i think it's really well sung yeah and it's it's it's different i think like it's nowhere well yeah i say it's nowhere near as good as this town i've i've um Yeah, i've scored it I've scored it the same as Cry to Heaven, you know. aa Yeah, I think it's really... Can I ask, is what is the thing about it that you like the most? Like, is is it the sound? Is it the lyric? It's the sound, it's the sound, actually. So I praised when I saw Elton live and he performed Rocketman and he did the massive, long wow yeah bit that, you know, and I was looking around the audience of mostly pension age attendees, and I thought, oh my word, people are really on board with this. Because I've been to other gigs, I said this at the time, where you think the crowd have got a bit bored. I've seen Red Hot Chili Peppers and thought, people have really had enough of this bass guitar solo. This is like... No one's enjoying this as much as the red hot chili peppers are. But I thought looking at the faces of people, I was like, yeah, people are really, this is shamanic. this is So I think it's not 100 miles away from that. It feels like, and you're right, it doesn't have the chorn that Rocketman has. But yeah.
00:49:26
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it doesn't. and And I can appreciate what you're saying, because i would say for me, one of the critiques I would have is that musically it doesn't have a build. There's no swell, there's no climax, there's no rise and fall to it.
00:49:42
Speaker
But then you could flip that and say, well, yes, it's it's maybe a little trance-like, and I don't mean trance in terms of the type of music, but but actually, I reckon if you started listening 20 seconds in, and then a minute and 20, and then two minutes, 20, and three minutes, 20, and four minutes, 20, it would sound about the same.
00:50:01
Speaker
Which if you're digging it by the time you're on two minutes, three minutes, like you're really starting to get into it. I just wasn't feeling that. I think I needed something to GB up after wrap her up and the the lyric and that that the sound didn't quite do it. I mean, that there's some interesting...
00:50:19
Speaker
jangly guitar bits in there and that there's bits of it that I can get, but to me, it didn't come together in, in anything that, that grabbed me, but I can, and I can now understand why it, why it would grab somebody else or bring someone else along for the ride, but not, not ticking the boxes for me. However, the next track, tell me what the papers say. I've forgotten Dominic's score, but I reckon you're not going to like this one.
00:50:45
Speaker
Well, it grew on It's a, it's a bit twee. isn't it? It's a bit um face value. It's, I mean, you tell me what the papers say. Listeners, if you've never listened to this song before, but you've heard a bit of Elton, you've heard a bit of what he thinks about the media, tell me what the papers say. You can guess what it's...
00:51:05
Speaker
it's going to be about, isn't it? um And i I don't think there's anything, any big surprises in there, but it's, it's quite jaunty. It's got a very, um, boom, boom, boom, boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom base hasn't it and quite um m got pithy lyrics that that they're more jails peace for sale of japanese still killing whales yeah it's it's it's got it's got interesting couplets hasn't it that it just throws out there when we come on to red strikes back there is a track called goodbye marlon brando and it's uh
00:51:45
Speaker
it's ah a bit like that in terms of like he's just like throwing out two lines at a time trying to like um uh the comedian um oh i've forgotten his bloody name now tim vine i was thinking tim vine yeah like like someone that just does one-liners uh milton jones yeah it's just like i'm gonna try another one try another one try another one And I think it belongs on the same record as this town. I don't think it's anywhere near as good as this town. But as I keep saying, this is an album of two very different sounds. There's like fluffy, oh, isn't romance nice? ah And I'm less interested. I think the leather jacket songs about love
00:52:33
Speaker
I'm a lot more into, I think that the for me, they sound a lot more, in general, a lot more authentic, a lot more believable. Whereas I just, I, and you know, i'm i'm I can be quite cynical when it comes to ah romantic songs. Oh yeah, whatever, a bit hard-hearted, I guess. But Some of the Leather Jackets love songs. i was like, yeah, OK, you've got my attention.
00:53:01
Speaker
Less so on Too Young and Soul Glove. Yeah, I just wish there was a whole album of um Tell Me What the Papers Say, Nikita. I'd love that.
00:53:12
Speaker
I'd love that. Yes, and I think this song would be better with less of her a... ruperter but but um um i I get that, like, with Cry To Heaven, This Town, Nikita, you've got quite serious subject matter and the tone of the music is echoing it. So let's try and flip it and give something jaunty, do the, ah what we might call the, I think I'm going to kill myself effect. I get why you'd mix it up, but for me, it loses something through that contrast. and But i so i I still think it's an attempt at pithy little couplets that make us go, huh, that's a funny little line, or, oh, that's ironic. Yeah, it it does it for me. it's ah It's a decent album track, nothing more.
00:54:02
Speaker
The next track, the penultimate track of the album, Elton is quoted as saying that ah this is like an old Miracles song. The Miracles being a band from the 1960s. Smokey Robinson. Yeah. The Motel group. Yeah.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah, actually formed in 1955, but they sort of came to prominence in the early 60s. Sorry, Elton, I beg to differ. I think this absolute tripe.
00:54:33
Speaker
Oh, but then Miracles could do absolute tripe. I mean, I've got Miracles albums. I mean, yeah, they're they're not. I mean, even some of Smokey Robinson's solo stuff like Being With You, it pours on the syrup. So yeah, this is my least favourite song. Give me anything off of leather jackets.
00:54:50
Speaker
ah my My lowest scored song on leather jackets gets double what I score Candy by the Pound. is a real, you know, I would rather listen to Too Young on repeat than Candy by the Pound one time.
00:55:07
Speaker
it's It's just like you you use the word syrupy. is. It took me back to take me back from 21 at 33. It's just like so slow and just transparent and just cheese oozing out of every orifice. I don't think it's quite as bad as that because it's not quite as whiny. Take me back has got that horrible sort of whiny violin sound to it. And and don't get me wrong, I i love a a fiddle played jauntily and with gusto. But yeah, this is just proper...
00:55:40
Speaker
oh saccharine saccharine stuff and and just the the lyrics again it's sorry gary but it's it's more gary osborne than bernie torpain isn't it has gary written anything as bad as this i don't know i don't know blue eyes i reckon you uh yeah I think one of my complaints with Blue Eyes, i mean, they are nothing e-lyrics, but I'm not a fan of Elton's deeper voice. And again, I think, um although I have said my my boyfriend loves the song Blue Eyes and so how it makes me think of you with your blue eyes, which makes me feel gutted, like really, really devastated that like, oh, i would you know, because that's a lovely thing for him to say, like it's so lovely. And I'm really moved by that.
00:56:26
Speaker
I don't know what he'd make of of Candy. I don't know. i don't know i i think i prove oh but then i gave blue eyes like i think zero out of ten and i've scored candy more than zero oh it's so difficult it's so difficult to score the further we get when we we're saying it's a crazy undertaking honestly the amount i've compared some random album track from the eight radham album track off empty sky from the late 60s oh is it fair am i it's so hard yeah so yeah that i just want to leave us with the opening two lines well i'm keeping off the streets since you came to town since you claimed my heart from the lost and found is dreadful dreadful come on bernie you've got to do better than that
00:57:13
Speaker
Let's go on to the last track. Shoot Down the Moon. I would say, Dominic, this is the track I can make my mind up on the least. I find it difficult to know what I feel about this one.
00:57:25
Speaker
Do you have any strong opinions? Yeah, i do. I like it. um I mean, you know, we say all the time, we're just two guys who are giving out subjective views we're not saying we're music experts or lyric experts so ah you could say i'm contradicting what i've said before because this is a broken heart song it is a and yet i do think this feels like it belongs on the same album as this town and cry to heaven even though it's not about global events it's
00:57:57
Speaker
I think it's really, yeah, really synthesizing. I think I really like the cold synthesizers. They're really, ah really striking. And I really like them. I like the synth sound. Again, different to what's gone before. And yeah, thank Yeah, I would say all of the marks that I give for this are for the music. that that The sound to this is really good and is consistent with the tracks earlier on in this album that we really dig. it's it's It's not got the high pace of this town. it's not got the sort of commercial but really good commercial sound of Nikita but it's still of that same ilk and we've got these nice echoey whiny sounds in there that are really resonant there is a line I really do like that comes in the chorus ah we can build a bridge between us but the empty space remains I really like that as a as an analogy of um
00:58:58
Speaker
you know, human relationships. um People talk about building bridges, don't they, being a really positive thing. But it's interesting to note why one is needing to build a bridge. That got me thinking anyway. But otherwise, I would say the lyrics are very middling.
00:59:13
Speaker
But the sound is is what does it, I i would say. Fred Mandel on the synthesizers. let's Let's give him props because he's been on quite a few tracks and that the the sound has been one we've enjoyed. and We haven't mentioned cover versions. This has had a cover version by the, quote, world-renowned bass singer, Barseg Tumanyan.
00:59:35
Speaker
ah There is a video on YouTube of him singing this in a quite an operatic way. He also, I'm assuming in the same concert, because it was with the same orchestral backing, um did a cover of Cry to Heaven. Both of them decent. You know, if you if you like classical music, like I say, he's a proper...
00:59:56
Speaker
operatic bass singer wearing ah a tuxedo and a bow tie he's looking great and nikita has had quite a few covers i was just about to ask that i was gonna say who's covered nikita i mean nothing that's that's had commercial uh chart success um there is the um the warehouse project uh do a nice version of it um and there is also lomes brown And that does one and it's it's one of those songs where you know a a country and Western singer with a guitar might might do ah a cover of it and that sort of thing. But nothing none of the tracks on this album have had any commercial covers done of them. But um yeah, in terms of different sounding cover versions, I would recommend checking out Bass Eggs, Shoot Down the Moon or Cry to Heaven. They're they're just a little bit different.
Re-release of 'Ice on Fire' & Final Rankings
01:00:48
Speaker
And that brings us to the end, Dominic. We've reached the end. Now, very often on the albums that were released in the 80s, we're saying, wo there was no re-release of this album. Don't you worry. However, this one, we've got quite a few extra recordings added, re-releases and Yeah, quite a few bits and bobs, isn't there?
01:01:08
Speaker
Yes, indeed. ah So I've not listened to the bonus tracks. I know that there's a duet with Millie Jackson, Act of War. i've I've never heard it. but It was a single. Do you know Act of War, Anthony?
01:01:22
Speaker
No, I've not listened to that. I have listened to the ones in the, in the re-release of this album, um, in 1998. So the man who never died, it's an interesting one, the man who never died. it was ah it was a remix in 1985 by Gus Dudgeon.
01:01:41
Speaker
It sounds like song for guy mixed up with a bit of, ice on fire general vibes i mean it's not sampling song for guy i should be clear but um it's got that instead of song for guys kind of got that dirt did did did do do um as the kind of b part to it um whereas the man who never died is sort of a dooooo do do du did did do but it's the same kind of thing and then there's a a bit of
01:02:13
Speaker
looping of a line he was the man who never died over the top it's it's interesting you'd enjoy it if you enjoy song for guy you'd play it at the same times i would say and then the rest of the other three tracks are ah live versions um weirdly they they list it as being from a concert at wembley stadium in 1984 but it was act oh sorry seems to be the hardest word was actually from 1977 they got it completely wrong but they that they write it as different but they're decent it's interesting hearing a live version of restless from the previous album that we reviewed breaking hearts later cd pressings of this album contain extended versions of wrap her up and satellite with durations of six minutes 21 and four minute 37 respectively
01:03:02
Speaker
what are The extended versions that no one asked for. Thanks very much, guys. Between this a recording and ah Leather Jackets, I will listen to Millie Jackson, Act of War, because I feel it's a a mission to have not for me to have not even heard of it. Because I know, were yeah, ah I hadn't heard the Cliff Richard duet before preparing for Leather Jackets. What a thing. Elton with Cliff Richard. What a thing.
01:03:32
Speaker
what I know. i know who Who would think that that could happen? I wonder if it will happen again. oh listeners, you're just going to have to stay tuned for our subsequent album reviews. We need to review this one, Dominic. This is the 19th studio album. We need to see where in the top 19 this one is going to come. Oh, my word.
01:03:52
Speaker
wo Let's get the ball rolling. This town. What are you giving it, Dominic? Nine. Woo-hoo! I am going to see your nine. and I'm going to match your nine what a start what a start it's almost way out in front although regular listeners will know we're quite partial to a 10 out of 10 for the first track can it sustain for cry to heaven not for me I'm dropping it down to a seven i don't know over time maybe that'll go up but it's a seven for now what about you Dominic it doesn't have the replayability for me of this town but i love it eight soul glove i am dropping to a three and to be honest to be honest it could have dropped even lower i i think i do i do like the horn section so
01:04:42
Speaker
that gives it three what about you yeah i feel i've really laid into i said lots of negativity but no i'll score it at five i'm looking i'm looking here at my scores i gave various songs of victim of love and yeah five for soul club if you if you came to me and said dominic listen i've written a song it's called soul club and it was your first zone song i'd go wow what a great song well done answer And this is Elton's 19th album. yeah So I think we can be a bit harsher. um I'm not going to be harsh on Nikita. I'm going give it nine out of ten.
01:05:15
Speaker
Ooh, I could give it a ten, but i'm not going Yeah, same here. Same here. It's close, isn't it? It's a very high nine. I'm giving Too Young six. Do you know what? I like it. I like it. It's just the subject matter means like I don't think I can go higher than a six. I'm going to give it a ah a five.
01:05:37
Speaker
Again, I really laid into it. I think that, you know, I'm repeating myself here, but yeah, it's really well sung. I mean, it's a really good tune as well. I didn't really say that when we were nattering about it. so It's a grand melody, you know. It is, but the same time, you're not driving along in your car with the windows down, blaring out, singing out loud. are you as a middle-aged man um rapper if it elton promptly sung uh unexpected too young at a dinner party i wouldn't like him off i wouldn't i wouldn't turn off the tv cameras i wouldn't do that i wouldn't do that no indeed i might do with wrapper up though i might do wrap a rub from me is getting a two and it would consider itself lucky to have two yeah i'm sticking with i'm giving that a five as well i mean like because i do like dancey stuff it's it's you know that there's there's there's lots there's yeah i'm giving it a five satellite what about that one
01:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, I love it. I love it as much as Cry to Heaven. I'll give it an eight. I'm giving it a three. i I do appreciate why you like it, but it's just not my cup of tea. Tell me what the papers say, however.
01:06:52
Speaker
I do like that. And you know what? Seven out of ten. I'll give it a seven too. feel like we're going to drop down those scores for Candy by the Pound. What's your score, Dominic? Oh, I don't know.
01:07:06
Speaker
I don't know. What are you scoring it? I've been harsh or on the harsh side a couple of times, so I'll be ever slightly generous and give it a three. I will also give it a three. And finally, Shoot Down the Moon. I'm going to give it six. i the The lyrics don't do anything, so pretty much all of those six marks are for for a really good sound. No, I really like it. Eight out ten for me. ten. Okay, so scores-wise, that gives me an average of five and a half, which makes it my 16th favourite album out of 19. It's just a shame about those ones that drag it down, because there's some real good tracks on that album for me. ah Dominic, you've given it a score of 6.7, which makes it your equal 17th. You've scored it the same average as Jump Up.
01:07:52
Speaker
Oh, fair. Yeah, I stand by that. Yeah. However, regular listeners will know that we rate more than just the tracks. So let's move on to the album name.
01:08:04
Speaker
Dominic, I cannot give this more than six and I think it can be lucky to have six. I quite like that it's not named after a track. It's named after a line in Nikita, I believe. Yeah, do I do i like it more than Jump Up as a title? I'm going to give it a six as well. However, for the album artwork, I'm dropping much lower. I'm thinking that the irony that the album is named after a line with eyes that looked like ice on fire, and then the album art, we can't even see out of bloody eyes. I'll give it a three out of ten.
01:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, I'll give it two. Cover versions, there's only... three tracks with notable cover versions that I can see. okay I think they're all decent.
01:08:51
Speaker
I'm going to give it a four out ten. Oh, well, I'm going to be a bit more pedantic. out There are ten songs, so if there are three covers, I'll give it a three. Yeah, nice one. What about the lyrics then? it's It's a bit up and down, isn't it?
01:09:05
Speaker
ah well there's 10 songs right so let me count yes or no for each lyric so um this town yes cry to heaven yes soul glove no nikita yes too young no wrap her up no satellite yeah i'll go for satellite papers yeah candy no shoot for the moon yeah i'm giving it six Okay, I'm giving a seven, not using the same system as you, but I think the though there's not seven tracks that I really love the lyrics of, the ones I like the lyrics of, I think are really strong.
01:09:37
Speaker
So seven for me, and I'm going to give an eight for the music. I really like the sound for most of it, but there's a few tracks. So Soul Glove, Candy by the Pound, Rapper Up and Satellite.
01:09:49
Speaker
Ah, no, I need to go to a seven. Seven, I can't give it an eight. That's too high. Yeah, no, I think i think I'm going to give the music more than I gave the lyrics. I'll give it a seven.
01:10:00
Speaker
Flop Dodge. I'm afraid there's too many flops for me. It's getting a two out of ten for Flop Dodge. One, two. Yeah, going to be the same, isn't it? Yeah, so um seven. Seven for Flop Dodge and seven for Hits.
01:10:11
Speaker
No, six. Hold on, let's say. This Town, Cry to Heaven, Nikita, Satellite, Papers, Shoot. Yeah, seven. Seven for each. Seven for both. I'm giving two for Flop Dodge because it really doesn't dodge flops. um But Hits, I think there's a good number, so I will give it a five.
01:10:30
Speaker
Okay, the scores are in. Ice on Fire gets a score 54.5%, which means... It is higher than Jump Up. It is not as high as Caribou. So it is coming in 15th place out of 19.
01:10:50
Speaker
So it's it's towards the bottom, Dominic. But it's, you know, it's done better than Jump Up. It's done better than Victim of Love, 21 at 33, Blue Moves. think that's fair. Yeah, we're going to get real people being like, Blue Moves, so low. Blue Moves, so low. Yeah, I mean... I think we've been consistent in saying that when albums are inconsistent, it drags the whole all thing down. And you know what? You know what? We always pitch this as ah two friends raging over Ellen John. I feel that we've been pretty harmonious with each other, quite ah agreeable. I'm ready to rage about leather jackets because I like it. I like leather jackets more than Ice on Fire. So, yeah, because I think it's it's more consistent with... And yeah, I- Consistency is definitely the the thing that has caught Ice on Fire out. I mean, the Tom Bell sessions or the complete Tom Bell sessions is an album with six tracks.
01:11:52
Speaker
I think you could pick six tracks from Ice on Fire. that would be relatively consistent and pretty high standard. I know you could probably do that with most Elton albums, but it's the poor stuff that lets ice on fire down rather than there being an absence of anything good. But like Dominic said, Leather Jackets is our next album. That one was released two months before I was born in October. 1986 but we are desperately insecure that you're not going to come back to us so we need to leave you a teaser trivia question that we'll give you the answer to next time we have mentioned Elton performing at Live Aid in 1985 in London you get six points for this question what six tracks did Elton perform I tell you what if you can get all six
01:12:40
Speaker
then you have got some serious outer knowledge. I will give you a clue if you want one. One of the tracks was not written by him. Five of them were. One of them was not.
01:12:52
Speaker
Dominic, do you have any idea? Are you going to hazard a guess at the start? Well, I'm going to be pedantic. I'm going to say that um this is a massive clue to anyone who knows. I only, off the top of my head, can think of one. And the one that I can think of, he did right, but under a pseudonym.
01:13:09
Speaker
Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I see. I see where you come from. that There is another one that he definitely didn't write. Definitely. You're just going to have to tune in next time. What we're chatting about.
01:13:25
Speaker
Well, thank you everyone for listening. Please get in touch. Send us an email at eltonveltonpod at gmail.com. You can find me on my website, dominicberry.net and Anthony on two other podcasts. Enough for the falafel. We have vegan week and vegan talk episodes. Antony also records the Brambling Along podcast. Until next time, it is goodbye from me, Captain Domtastic, and the Brown Dirt Ant Boy. Goodbye.
01:13:54
Speaker
Goodbye.
01:14:00
Speaker
This podcast is hosted by Zencaster. We've used some sound effects from zapsplat.com. We've taken information from songfacts.com as well as sereltonjohn.fandom.com, the wiki. And I'd also really personally recommend you read Elton's autobiography, which is called Me. I listened to the audio version. It's narrated by Taron Egerton, which is excellent. We're indebted to all those who've helped create and share Elton's music. And thanks again to James Cook and Paul Savage, who inspired the format of this show.