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Fields of Fleece - Fiber Farming in Ohio
134 Plays2 months ago
Synthetic fibers make up 70% of the current fiber market. Natural fibers like flax linen and wool were once produced domestically as a necessity for clothing families– but today natural fiber production is largely relegated to hobbyists. Today’s guest is Charis Walker, a shepherd and sustainable wool advocate based in Southern Ohio. Charis and Kate talk about the motivation for organic practices in fiber farming and the place of fiber in US agriculture.
The Taproot Podcast is an initiative of the Midwest Transition to Organic Partnership Program, a project funded by the USDA National Organic Program to support transitioning and organic producers with mentorship and technical assistance and to grow the greater organic community. Learn more at organictransition.org.
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Guest Bios
Charis Walker is chief animal manager and shepherd of Tarheelbilly Farm in Willow Wood, Ohio. As a North Carolina native, is the Tarheel in Tarheelbilly Farm. A self-taught spinner, she also knits and weaves, and shears the flock. Her award-winning fleeces are sold to fiber aficionados far and wide, and her roving and yarn appreciated by fiber artists across the country.
Helpful Links
- Tarheelbilly Farm
- Rustbelt Fibershed
- Is there hope for a wool market in US Agriculture?
- From Closet to Bloodstream: The Silent Microplastics Crisis in Fashion
Credits
This work was funded and supported by the USDA National Organic Program, Transition to Organic Partnership Program (TOPP)
Hosted and produced by Kate Cowie-Haskell
Podcast art by Geri Shonka
Music:
- Chasin It by Jason Shaw, Free Music Archive
- Ghost Solos by Lucas Gonze, Free Music Archive
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Taproot Project & Charis Walker
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Taproot Project, where we share stories from changemakers in Midwestern agriculture. My name is Kate, and I'm here to say that I am a fiber nerd.
00:00:21
Speaker
As such, I was obligated to make sure I spoke to a fiber farmer for this podcast, and i am so excited to share that my guest today is fiber farmer and shepherd, Charis Walker.
Motivations & Challenges in Fiber Farming
00:00:36
Speaker
She is one half of Tar Heelbilly Farm in southern Ohio, where she raises a flock of Tunis sheep for fiber production, and her husband maintains an apiary and a maple sugar bush.
00:00:49
Speaker
We talked about the motivations for organic practices in fiber production, the beautiful and time-intensive nature of fiber farming, and the state of the domestic wool market.
00:01:01
Speaker
And I really loved our conversation. I don't want to cut into our time together anymore, so I'm just going to jump right into the interview. I hope you enjoy.
00:01:16
Speaker
I came to farming and the fiber art, having grown up around it, but not being instructed. um So everything I've kind of learned how to do, it's because I've invested in people or put myself in the right place, or I've been to fiber festivals and pay people to show me how to do stuff. So it's been kind of ah kind of a ah long process.
00:01:42
Speaker
So your your farm is called Tar Heel Billy Farm, which is yeah a nod to both your North Carolina roots and also your husband's roots. um yes And then the sort of tagline you have on your website is Southern Ohio's Chemical Free Heritage Farm. And um could you say a little bit more about like both parts of that tagline? Like I'd like to hear more about.
00:02:05
Speaker
Southern Ohio and and where you are and um and what is happening on the land around you.
Economic & Environmental Challenges in Appalachia
00:02:11
Speaker
And then also ah why chemical free and why heritage?
00:02:16
Speaker
So first I'll say that place I feel like is important and regions are important. Having grown up in the South, like said, you you your food is tied to your identity um So, you know, living in Southern Ohio, I'm right across the river from Huntington, West Virginia and Ashland, Kentucky.
00:02:41
Speaker
yeah so So a very economically depressed region, very beautiful region, but we're at the kind of at the toe end of the Appalachian range. So very hilly.
00:02:54
Speaker
um It's along the Ohio River river Valley. So very wet, um Some people, if you're a flatlander, they they probably look like mountains, but they're they're not quite not quite there yet.
00:03:09
Speaker
yeah um But very hardy people that their farms are tend to be smaller, right? So you think of Ohio or the Midwest, you think commodity farms, corn as far as i can see, soybeans, that kind of thing.
00:03:27
Speaker
our farms tend to be smaller, even if they're larger in acreage, the amount of tillable land tends to be very small just because of the hills or as you know, my West Virginia and Kentucky people would say hollers.
00:03:44
Speaker
very low, you know lots of flooding, um lots of very challenging topography. So there's not a whole lot of um commodity farming here on a large scale just because of the topography. So you'd have corn, you have soybeans,
00:04:00
Speaker
but most of that ends up going back into feed for various small small or regional mills in this area. So for for context, we're about two and a half hours south of Columbus.
00:04:12
Speaker
got it So down down here in the Netherlands. um But very rough and tumble, hardy people, steel mill people and coal miners. um so the So the food tends to reflect that.
00:04:26
Speaker
um and And I'll say with a Southern influence, so there's ah there's a lot of carryover, but not quite the same. um I hope that answers part of your question. I think there's a little more more depth to that that I didn't didn't touch on.
00:04:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah, well, the second part was just um why why chemical-free heritage farm? Yeah. so chemical-free, um part of that, I think, was just sort of an outgrowth of me eating commercially processed food in my 20s when I got out on my own and just not feeling good.
00:05:04
Speaker
And i can't tell you what's in food that I don't particularly care for, but I know that there, I have developed allergies and just different sensitivities to things that I strongly believe are related to what's in food.
00:05:22
Speaker
so there it So there is a and health component to it first. Secondly, um there is an ethical and moral component to me. i grew up in the woods.
00:05:34
Speaker
My husband grew up in the woods. um We are fishermen and hunters as well. So we do strongly believe that we are a product of what we eat, right? So if you're eating things that are chemically laden, then you can't tell me that those things don't end up in your body, right? So you have to care about what your plants and animals consume because you're consuming them. I don't care if it's a, you know, a pig or a carrot, whatever is uptaken, you know, whatever that plant or animal uptakes is going to be taken into your body. So we care from that aspect.
00:06:17
Speaker
And then there's a conservation and and just caring about the earth component to it too. So we feel very strongly that we're stewards of our land and it is our responsibility to make sure that the plants and animals that are under our care and not, and i when I say plants and animals, I mean, I care all the way down to the grasshoppers.
00:06:41
Speaker
Yeah. You know, I mean, and the And the butterflies today that you know use our um and unknown areas as their breeding areas and where they they and i get nourishment and sustenance. I mean, those things are important to us too.
00:06:57
Speaker
yeah And there's creek that runs along the front part of our property, Sims Creek, that is a tributary to the Ohio River watershed. Or to the Ohio River. So we're along that watershed. So not spraying and not contributing to pollution in the stream and fencing animals out of the stream was also important to us.
00:07:18
Speaker
And not just, you know, because we fish there. we we don't really fish there that often. But it's it's part of our responsibility to make sure that we are not contributing to pollution that impacts not just our farm, but to other aspects of the greater ecosystem that we are a part of.
00:07:39
Speaker
yeah so and and that's just been important to us since you know before we got married, that we are participants in this ecosystem, but we need to be responsible for how you know for for our for our role in its preservation and upkeep.
00:07:58
Speaker
um So that that's why Ohio, chemical-free, because it's it's ah it's a part of our it's important to us to to not contribute negatively to the, to the environment that we live in. Yeah, totally.
00:08:14
Speaker
Um, well, maybe you just answered this, but, um, i when people, when you're making a case for like, uh, organic fibers, like I can imagine folks being like, well, I'm not eating it. Why would it need to be organic?
00:08:30
Speaker
Um, do you, yeah. Why, why organic, wool, why organic fiber? Let's see, why?
00:08:43
Speaker
i think, ah okay, so i think that
00:08:52
Speaker
it's important to use things, products, whatever whatever it is, in the pure state that it was created in, right? Like you're what do what do you gain by using a whole lot of chemicals, right? So so one person would say, well, it increases productivity, but does it?
00:09:15
Speaker
Does it increase yield? And at what point is it, do do you enter into, like I thought of diminishing returns, like how much do you need?
00:09:26
Speaker
I do think that there is a component of more that is based on consumption or maximizing everything. I'm not entirely sold that that's the best thing for us as people.
00:09:41
Speaker
Um, and that, because there's, you go back to like physics in high school, right? Like you can't just, create nothing is created from nothing. Like everything has to come from something and everything ends up being there.
00:09:55
Speaker
Even, on Like you can't just destroy something through the process. And and um I mentioned that because if you if you're looking at, let's say, the chemicals that you would need in order to spray your fields to eliminate burdock. And I use burdock because I hate it and because it's everywhere and it's almost impossible to eliminate organically.
00:10:17
Speaker
um So I'm out there you know pulling up burdock to keep it from you know getting into my and places. Okay, so let's say you spray. Well, you spray and that chemical ends up in the soil.
00:10:31
Speaker
And then there's you're going to have to deal with that. are you going to um you know how is How is that impacting the health of your animals? so So whatever it is that you do, you're going to have to compensate for that decision somewhere else.
00:10:48
Speaker
um When it comes to processing fiber organically, there are very, very few meals that are able to process fiber organically. And that's one of the reasons why you don't really see organic certified um wool. And it's not because farmers aren't necessarily, raised it's not from the farming standpoint, it's from the processing standpoint. Same thing with organically raised meat.
00:11:14
Speaker
You can, I can raise my meat organically, but there isn't a processor within 150 miles of here that is certified organic and they would have to change their process, their policies and how they process in order to accommodate that.
00:11:32
Speaker
So you, even if you have farmers who are committed to raising their flocks or animals or whatever, what what have you organically, the whole entire stream would have to be certified in order for those, for those products to be certified.
00:11:49
Speaker
So for your wool, is it there's like in the processing, there's a ah chemical that's being applied to it? to i'm i'm not I don't think
Infrastructure & Market Challenges in Organic Wool
00:11:58
Speaker
so. Okay. so And i I say that because the the two mills that I have used in the last couple of years, and we can talk a little bit about processing also because there's a whole crisis going on in the fiber industry about mills closing. and Yeah.
00:12:13
Speaker
It's a whole entire thing. But they use... but they use we'll say biodegradable products and they're, they are not being introduced into their watershed.
00:12:27
Speaker
So that is as big a concession as I can provide for, for fiber um because there simply are not products that farmers, that mills could use at scale in order to certify them as organic.
00:12:46
Speaker
that Those products do not exist in the United States to my, to my knowledge. um So, you know, that I think if you're being an ethic, you know, an ethics based consumer asking those types of questions, like, well, what does that, what does it mean?
00:13:05
Speaker
Why can't this be certified? Or what would it take in order for it to be certified? The farther down the rabbit hole that goes, the, more distressing it becomes to the consumer, to be perfectly honest with you, because we don't we just don't have the products or infrastructure infrastructure necessary to provide those types of products to people, yeah which is really unfortunate.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of, so we did another episode, it was about regional grain, um and it feels like there's maybe some parallels between I mean, just because both fiber and grain are products with such a long stream, like like you said, that stream or chain from yeah um from growing it to to processing it and and ending up at the consumer, there are so many hands and pieces that it needs to pass through.
00:14:00
Speaker
yeah and And similar with grain, there's, um I mean, this crisis, I guess, already happened in the grain industry. field, but just so many local mills closing and, um, yeah. And the infrastructure for, for, uh, processing local products has disappeared. um yeah. what What are you seeing from your, from your end as a, as a shepherd? Um, this, the same as in the grain market. So within the last, I don't know, I'll, I'll say within the last three years, there've been at least four mills.
00:14:40
Speaker
that I either have used or that I know of that have closed. Two of them that I have used have closed. That's really recent. It is very recent and it it has caused to a huge ripple effect in the small direct to consumer fiber market.
00:15:00
Speaker
um You know, you're, you're, you're talking about and let's say your farm is 20, 20 use, 20 sheep. twenty years twenty sheep 20, and I only, I only share it once a year. It's worse if you share twice a year because you're doubling the amount of fiber, right? But let's say you have 250 pounds of fiber.
00:15:25
Speaker
That might seem like a lot to a, you know, to a person who likes to buy fiber, but to a mill that's, you know, if if you're a large mill,
00:15:37
Speaker
you need hundreds of pounds in order to justify the setup. If you're a small mill, you might be able to squeeze in a fleece or two, but there's a point at which do you start squeezing those people out because you can make more money, you know, buying, you know, accommodating more fiber and doing larger runs or whatever. And so, so when you have so many mills that are closing,
00:16:04
Speaker
that eliminates the ability for people who like to buy a couple fleeces at a fiber festival, where are they going to, everybody doesn't love to process fleeces, believe it or not. Everybody doesn't. Very tedious, you know, and and it can be a labor of love, but once you get past about five of them, it's all you can do to get them skirted and sent off.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um So the people who are you know might have a spinner's flock or have a very small flock, if maybe you know between five and 25, it's becoming quite problematic to find mills that will accommodate um accommodate their clips.
00:16:48
Speaker
And then you look at, well, how long is going to take? Because the processing times have stretched out from months six months. you know, typically you could get your stuff back six six months to maybe a year if you were looking at at yarn.
00:17:03
Speaker
But now you're looking at a year or two years. Or they're just like, well, what we're just not even accepting any new orders because we don't know. yeah and so it's it's a huge problem. There are lots of shepherds I know that raised fiber animals that have just gone in the hair sheet, you know, and they love tunas.
00:17:25
Speaker
But if the fiber has become useless, then, you're, you know, you weren't making a whole lot of money anyway. um a lot of people were either selling it, um you know, on Facebook marketplace, dirty fleeces done cheap or whatever, whatever they could do to unload it or, or selling to selling directly to mills. Where if the mills are just overwhelmed with fleeces, then you know most people were trying to just cover the cost of shearing.
00:17:52
Speaker
And if it can't cover the cost of shearing, then what, know, what are you doing? yeah So you, you love, you know, I love fiber. I would keep Tunis, even if I had to, you know, buy a whole entire trailer and just fill it full of fleeces, I guess. But everybody's not, you know, everybody's not coming from that same perspective.
00:18:12
Speaker
i So it it has, it has been very, very challenging. I think COVID exacerbated it. um But I don't, I don't see it getting better only because the domestic market for, for wool has really collapsed.
00:18:29
Speaker
um You look at places like ah Woolrich and other, other mills that would buy large amounts of domestically raised fiber to, you know, to make products out of, well, they, they don't do that anymore.
00:18:43
Speaker
So what are all those people doing with it? So it's, it's, it's become quite a thing. I learned that there is a concerted effort right now among big players in the wool industry to find new ways to use wool, including value-added uses like making wool pellet fertilizer from fleeces that are too dirty or or poor quality to process into yarn or roving.
00:19:11
Speaker
Several major wool organizations are encouraging people, farmers, concerned citizens, whoever, to find new ways to use wool because everybody's not knitting. Everybody's, you know, we're, we're really struggling. The domestic wool market is struggling. And so they're trying to find ways that farmers can utilize their fiber, um without just burning it up in piles at this point. And so there is researching and collaboration out in the world. that's happening here in America to help farmers find ways to utilize their wool.
00:19:55
Speaker
And if we don't, we really were run the risk of collapsing the domestic wool market. And I really feel like it's just that serious. I mean, if there's no market, then why are you doing it? Yeah. um Yeah, that hurts my heart to hear. I worked in ah in a small fiber mill in Minnesota for a little bit. And um you know you can I think folks who are care a lot about local agriculture um can go to the farmer's market, you know meet a farmer, see see the vegetable they grew, maybe even see the farm or like the place in the soil it came out of. And um and there's like ah more of a one-to-one there that people can understand what goes into making their food
00:20:39
Speaker
With fiber, um so much of that is invisible. Like I said, that long chain of production. um But as I have become ah knitter and a fiber artist and, you know, we'll we'll knit something and give it to someone, I'm like, oh, I want you to understand the immensity of this gift because yeah there is so much that goes into it that, like, you know, all of us now used to a fast fashion marketplace, like, don't.
00:21:07
Speaker
don't really understand.
The Wool Production Process
00:21:08
Speaker
And so I think, could you just maybe describe um in in shorthand, like from from the beginning of of growing growing fiber on on a sheep to to it ending up in a garment, um what are what are the the steps that that has to go through?
00:21:26
Speaker
oh my gosh, you said do it. but legally Okay. So I will do the best I can with that. Right. So and and i and And I know we're we're laughing because you well know that it is it is quite an undertaking, right? so I'll start at birth.
00:21:45
Speaker
Okay, Charis did a great summary, but I'm going to break it down even more with her help. So the lambs are born in March or April. They spend the whole first year of their life hanging out in the pasture, growing, eating good food, making some beautiful fleece with the shepherd heavily involved.
00:22:06
Speaker
And during that time, you're like, you know, it's not just guaranteed that if you have a sheep, they're going to make nice fleece. You have to be feeding them and stewarding them. um you leave Absolutely. So you you feed them high quality minerals, give them access to, you know, great water.
00:22:21
Speaker
um We are a grass and forage based farm. So we feed hay in the winter when the grass is, you know, tends to go dormant.
00:22:33
Speaker
But during the summertime, they are out on pasture eating grass and getting lovely sunshine and get rained on and the whole, the whole bit. So, and that, and so we are, and I was going to tell you, are we're grass farmers first, right? So you're not going to,
00:22:49
Speaker
have healthy animals without having healthy pasture. The following spring, the sheep are sheared. Tunis sheep are only sheared once a year, while other breeds are sheared twice annually.
00:23:02
Speaker
Some shepherds hire a shearer to come to the farm, and some shear their own. And I shear my own flock, and not because I just love it, but I'm way out here in the sticks.
00:23:15
Speaker
And I, some of it's OCD, right? Like i just couldn't imagine paying someone to flip them over and shear them. And then what if they don't do it right? Or what if, you know, because shearing for...
00:23:28
Speaker
Shearing for processing is different than shearing to get it off or shearing for show. Those freshly sheared fleeces are then skirted or cleaned, which means that all of the debris that catches in the fleece as the sheep lives its life has to be picked out by hand. um But I do tend to skirt very heavily, and i I'm very particular about what becomes what.
00:23:52
Speaker
Then those fleeces are sent to a mill for processing. As Charis described, this is a pretty huge task because with small artisan mills disappearing, it's a big leap of faith to send your fiber to a new mill.
00:24:07
Speaker
Fiber farming is relational, just like being a fiber consumer is relational. Like, so when you go to the fire, like you, in your example, you go to the farmer's market and you connect with that farmer.
00:24:19
Speaker
Farmers do the same thing. We both connect with the people who repeatedly buy our fiber because a lot of people are repeat customers are they word ofm mouth or And or we also connect with the mills that process our fiber because it means a lot to ah you know, you think it's a significant um commitment to send a whole fiber clip to a mill.
00:24:44
Speaker
Not just finance you know financially, you have to pay for it, of course. But if they don't do your fiber justice, that's a significant amount of your income. A fiber mill is essentially a small factory where the more labor-intensive parts of processing a fleece are mechanized.
00:25:01
Speaker
The wool is washed, which removes the lanolin wax that coats fleece. And then it is picked, which helps separate the fibers and remove any remaining debris. And then the fiber is carded, which aligns the fiber strands all in one direction so that they are easier to process.
00:25:20
Speaker
If the fiber is being turned into yarn, it will be spun and then usually plied, which means spinning it around itself again so that the yarn is stronger. And sometimes that yarn is dyed.
00:25:32
Speaker
But most of the time that a fleece spends at a fiber mill is just spent waiting. And then you wait. And typically it's about a year from the time you mail it.
00:25:43
Speaker
So from the time the sheep is born until you get a product back, it's two years. Two years. yeah Yeah. How many, how many hands touched it? How many different, you know, how many different aspects of it from, you know, growing and raising it, sharing it, skirting it, um sending it off.
00:26:05
Speaker
um The people in the mill have to skirt, evaluate, wash, pick, card, spin, weigh, die, if if they're capable of doing that. And then that's if it's not processed any further.
00:26:19
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for walking us through that. um I find in in um my conversations ah about farms and farming and local agriculture, like whether it's with my friends or with industry professionals, um fiber is often kind of forgotten about as as a part of agriculture. is that Do you relate it at all to that or have you seen that in your own experience as ah as a fiber farmer?
00:26:45
Speaker
Yes and no. and And I think that's because I'm a fiber nerd anyway. Yeah. I don't know. we' We're different kind of people. Oh, yeah. i've been so I've been sucked into the fiber nerd wormhole. I know it's like. Oh, yeah.
00:27:00
Speaker
Yeah. It's a whole thing. And I think from a policy standpoint, that. that becomes a thing also, right? Because who are who are we supporting and who are whose voices are we listening to? Because I do think that, you know, you're kind of circling back to your original question, do I feel like we're looked at differently?
00:27:21
Speaker
We are. and i And I think it's because of the nature of our products, who's using it and how it is used. um So i I don't think that there is...
00:27:38
Speaker
i don't I just don't feel like fiber farming voices are as amplified adds some other voices um because we're smaller in number in our and we're so much more niche than other types of farming. Yeah.
00:27:56
Speaker
I think that for so long it was relegated to a hobby that wasn't necessary. yeah So like you think like a hundred years ago, all you know, we, everybody took home economics. Everybody knew how to sew, quilt, you know, knit and it was necessary. It wasn't a hobby. It was necessary for you to, you know, take care of your family.
00:28:24
Speaker
But now I don't think anybody can argue that everybody has to learn how to sew. Like you don't, eat out you know, you don't have to learn how to crochet in order for your kids to have clothes. So the fact that we took something that for the entirety of human existence was necessary and relegated it to a hobby has meant that we have lost the overall importance of the animals that are necessary to produce it.
Sustainability & Tradition in Wool Farming
00:28:54
Speaker
Like, why why why do we need wool sheep? Well, we kind of don't. I mean, if we're really being serious about it, like, do we really? Is it necessary? i would think that most people would argue that it's not really necessary if you look at, you know, going back to fast fashion and where, you know, all of these chemically created cloths and clothing. Like, we don't really need wool in order to clothe ourselves.
00:29:21
Speaker
We would prefer it It's better for our environment, but I think we have to be careful when we say, is it necessary? I think so, because I think you know synthetic fiber is really terrible, really terrible for us.
00:29:36
Speaker
ah But i don't know i I don't know if everybody would have that same perspective if it comes down to, do I want to pay $30 for a pair of you know really nice wool socks or eight?
00:29:51
Speaker
for whatever that stuff is made out of. I don't know. yeah You know, I mean, to be, to be a hundred percent honest about it, I don't know, but I do think in the process, we lose a great deal of our humanity by sacrificing that.
00:30:07
Speaker
um And I think the conversation needs to be more, more than about economics. And I, the, the economics of a lot of things don't make a lot of sense, but there's a better decision for us all, you know,
00:30:21
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, this um I think that's a big part of what I love about um about the fiber arts. And I um think this is true of crafts in general, but um yeah, like I was saying, like handing handing somebody a ah sweater that I've knit for them is like, it just defies the logic of like consumer economics. yes It totally, like it just doesn't fit in at all. Yeah.
00:30:49
Speaker
man based on the material cost and the, what went into even raising the wool in addition to like hours and hours of skilled labor, like that sweater would be right thousands of dollars.
00:31:03
Speaker
Yeah. And it becomes like, it's a price. There's a point at which things become priceless. Yeah. yeah Yeah. And, and so I, it feels like resistance to me to, to, um to make things,
00:31:18
Speaker
that I know, i know where they came from and I made them with my hands and to give them to people. Yeah. Yeah. yes or more ne And the, and the love and intention that comes along with it.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah. And it is, that it is very much an act of resistance and defiance because it doesn't, the economics make absolutely no sense. And, you know, and I've had people ask, well, will you knit me this? And I, and I,
00:31:44
Speaker
And I will say because I'm a slow knitter, right? Like I'm not, I am not a process knitter. I know there's people out there that do it, but I don't. And I'm slow and it's not, it's, I'm not an intuitive knitter. It is not a gift. I enjoy it and I do it for the joy, but there is a great deal of satisfaction creating something for someone else that money can't capture.
00:32:11
Speaker
It just can't. So I won't, I don't make stuff for people to buy, but I will make something and give it to you because I want you to have it. yeah And there's no amount of money that you can pay me for it. But yeah, I mean, I, I, it is always every sale and it might seem very goofy and, you know, overstated, but the fact that people seek me out to buy fiber from my flock and then turn around and make stuff with it is humbling to me every time.
00:32:40
Speaker
It really is. Because, you know, and I'll tell him like, oh, you you know, you have, you know, Patrick's fiber in there and they're connected to Patrick. Like i have people that buy specific fiber from specific sheep.
00:32:53
Speaker
um So that so that level of intentionality is not lost on me. Because people can spend their money wherever they want to. They could have a bag of Doritos. But they didn't. you know ah right yeah fight you know brought Sought the farm out and and and bought bought and then made something for it that you know with it that's going to you know bless somebody else. And so it is there is something about that, that going to a store and buying something will never be able to to duplicate or capture. They're not the same thing.
00:33:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Thank you for that. um Yeah. i I think that that's pretty much, that's most of my questions. um Actually, maybe one, one more. um i listened to another interview with you and I, um I heard you talk about like how easy it is for farmers, especially small farmers to to keep chasing that next thing that's going to make their farm work or like be viable. And, um and you spoke to how important is for farmers to hold on to like a guiding principle or value for, for their farm so they don't get sidetracked. um
00:34:10
Speaker
And I'm wondering if, have you articulated that for yourself? Like what is what is that overall guiding principle for your, your farm and your project? So for my flock,
00:34:23
Speaker
I want to maintain the healthiest flock of structurally correct Tunis that I can.
00:34:36
Speaker
that ah It is important to me to raise Tunis in the way that they were originally founded, I'll They've been here since the early part of the country's founding.
00:34:52
Speaker
um and they were homestead sheep. You know, they were in backyards. They were, know, regular people spun the fiber and made hats, and they were very utilitarian, functional sheep.
00:35:05
Speaker
And so for me, my the most important thing to me is to maintain functional, healthy, hardy sheep in the way that they were when they first came to this country.
00:35:21
Speaker
So everything, you know, so that's why to me maintaining good fiber is important because that's what they were, they were used for that. um Having, you know, hardy sheep is important where I don't have to worry about them getting sick or got out and pull lambs or whatever. Like that's important because 200 years ago that, you know, the the hardiest ones lived and the ones that couldn't quite make it, well, they didn't quite make it.
00:35:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm. um having animals that were good you know good for the table. That was important because they fed the families that maintained them. So to me, that is why I do what I do the way that I do it, because I think that it's important in this super commercial, super commodity driven and bottom line driven society to have
00:36:18
Speaker
things that don't depend on a lot of outside inputs in order for them to be okay. Keeping that why it's important because I spin the fiber, I knit the yarn, I eat the lamb, I cry when some of them pass.
00:36:38
Speaker
there They're a part of my life too. And I'm fortunate enough to get to share that with other people who also care I haven't sold a single sheep to someone who didn't care.
00:37:00
Speaker
Many thanks to Charis for that conversation. If you're in the Ohio region, check out the Rust Belt Fiber Shed for ways to plug into your local fiber scene. And if you're anywhere else, just look up local fiber sheds and you'll probably find one near you.
00:37:17
Speaker
The Taproot Project is produced by me, Kate Kawi-Haskell. Music in today's episode was Ghost Solos by Lucas Gonza and A Chase in It by Jason Shaw, both from the Free Music Archive.
00:37:31
Speaker
The Taproot Project is an initiative of the Midwest Transition to Organic Partnership Program. a project funded by the USDA National Organic Program to support transitioning and organic producers with mentorship and technical assistance and to grow the greater organic community.
00:37:47
Speaker
You can learn more organictransition.org.