Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Listening to Lead: UC Student Regents on the Power of Engagement
39 Plays1 year ago
This month Michelle talks with UC Student Regent Josiah Beharry and Student Regent-Designate Sonya Brooks to explore the power of student leadership in shaping the university. Josiah and Sonya share their journeys to these roles, the challenges they have faced and strategies they have developed to advocate effectively. At a time when higher education is facing unprecedented challenges, their insights offer a hopeful vision for the positive power of speech.
Episode Resources:
- How research prepared Sonya Brooks to represent UC students on the Board of Regents | University of California
- UC Merced graduate student Josiah Beharry appointed as 2024-25 UC student Regent | University of California
Recommended
Transcript
Free Speech & Justice: An Introduction
00:00:03
Speaker
I think what we need to do is explain how our principles of free speech, free inquiry, will help serve the cause of justice.
00:00:12
Speaker
The First Amendment, the constitutional freedom of speech and freedom of conscience that is the bulwark of our democracy.
00:00:22
Speaker
There was a passion in what was being said, affirming this, what people consider a sacred constitutional right, freedom of speech and freedom of association.
Introducing 'Speech Matters' Podcast
00:00:34
Speaker
From the UC National Center for Free Speech and Civic Engagement, this is Speech Matters, a podcast about expression, engagement, and democratic learning in higher education.
00:00:44
Speaker
I'm Michelle Deutschmann, the Center's Executive Director and your host.
00:00:49
Speaker
In this terrifying, challenging time for higher education and democracy, leaders with vision, integrity, and the ability to inspire others are in high demand.
00:00:58
Speaker
And we have not just one, but two such leaders as guests on this month's
Meet Josiah Bahari & Sonia Brooks
00:01:02
Speaker
podcast.
00:01:02
Speaker
We are joined by Josiah Bahari and Sonia Brooks, the two students who represent all 300,000 UC students on the UC Board of Regents, which is the governing board that oversees the entire University of California system.
00:01:17
Speaker
The California State Constitution gives this board full powers of organization and governance to oversee key financial decisions for the system.
00:01:26
Speaker
Our conversation will delve into what it means to represent tens of thousands of students in key decision-making spaces while the challenges come with the role and how any student can make an impact on their campus.
00:01:38
Speaker
Before we dive in, let's turn to class notes, a look at what's making headlines.
00:01:42
Speaker
Since current events in higher education are changing swiftly, please note that these class notes are being recorded on March 18th at 10 a.m.
Columbia University & Trump Administration Dispute
00:01:51
Speaker
Columbia University remains center stage as it goes toe-to-toe with the Trump administration about expression and anti-discrimination efforts on campus.
00:01:59
Speaker
It began on March 7th when the administration told the university that it was canceling $400 million worth of grants and contracts because of what government described as the school's failure to adequately address anti-Semitism on campus.
00:02:14
Speaker
Doctors at Columbia's Medical School have already received notices that their funding has been terminated, meaning many types of life-saving research are stopping.
00:02:23
Speaker
About $250 million of the $400 million in cuts involved funding from the National Institutes of Health.
00:02:31
Speaker
One week later, a letter from federal officials at the U.S. Education Department, Department of Health and Human Services, and General Services Administration threatened Colombia with an ultimatum, ensure and document compliance with nine conditions if Colombia wants to continue this financial relationship with the United States government.
00:02:50
Speaker
These conditions included
00:02:52
Speaker
Abolishing the university judicial board, the university-wide panel that hears charges of violations under the university codes of conduct and centralize all disciplinary processes under the office of the president, ensured that Columbia University's security has full law enforcement authority, and...
00:03:09
Speaker
Begin the process of placing the Middle East, South Asian, and African Studies Department under academic receivership for a minimum of five years.
00:03:17
Speaker
Academic receivership is a relatively rare event in which a department chair is imposed from the outside by a dean or provost when the department is judged unable to govern itself effectively.
00:03:28
Speaker
All conditions must be met by March 20th.
00:03:32
Speaker
In between the cancellation of funds and the ultimatum, Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested Mahmoud Khalil, a Columbia University graduate and pro-Palestinian activist at a university-owned apartment building.
00:03:44
Speaker
According to reporting, Khalil is a green card holder which grants him permanent residency.
00:03:49
Speaker
His arrest is one of the first instances of ICE detaining an international student who took part in protests connected to the war in Gaza.
00:03:56
Speaker
an action that President Trump has promised would take place.
00:03:59
Speaker
Khalil has not been charged with the crime.
00:04:02
Speaker
His arrest and detention in Louisiana, where he's still being held and was unable to be in contact with lawyers for days, is not just a crisis for higher education.
00:04:10
Speaker
It is something that should alarm every American who values their ability to engage in political expression without fear or sanction from the government.
00:04:18
Speaker
Columbia is far from the only college or university under investigation.
Investigations into Institutions for Discrimination
00:04:22
Speaker
Last week, the Trump administration issued a warning to over 60 higher education institutions that they may face penalties from pending investigations into antisemitism on college campuses.
00:04:33
Speaker
In addition, this past Friday, the administration announced that it will be investigating over 50 colleges for alleged racial discrimination caused by diversity, equity, and inclusion programs that the administration claims exclude white and Asian American students.
00:04:47
Speaker
These investigations touch on every type of higher ed institution, large publics, small privates in both red and blue states.
00:04:55
Speaker
In other legal news, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit overturned a nationwide injunction issued last month with regard to executive orders in diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:05:06
Speaker
This allows the Trump administration to carry out all of the provisions of those executive orders, meaning all equity-related grants or contracts will be terminated by federal agencies and federal contractors will be required to certify that they do not promote DEI as the litigation continues to unfold.
00:05:23
Speaker
So much of this Class Nodes segment has been grim, but turning to today's guests will leave you feeling better about the future.
Trailblazing Student Leaders: Josiah & Sonia
00:05:30
Speaker
We are pleased to welcome Josiah Beharie and Sonia Brooks, the UC Student Regent and Student Regent Designate.
00:05:38
Speaker
If I shared all of their respective curricular, extracurricular, and community engagements and leadership, we would have no time for the actual conversation.
00:05:47
Speaker
So I will share a short bio and let them tell you the rest.
00:05:50
Speaker
Josiah is the current student regent and therefore is a voting member of the UC Board of Regents for the current term.
00:05:56
Speaker
He is a first-generation student and the first student from UC Merced to be appointed as the UC student regent.
00:06:02
Speaker
A graduate of UC Merced, Josiah obtained his Bachelor of Arts degree in Critical Race and Ethnic Studies.
00:06:08
Speaker
He is currently pursuing a PhD in Interdisciplinary Humanities at UC Merced.
00:06:14
Speaker
Sonia is this year's student regent designate.
00:06:16
Speaker
Before officially stepping into the voting role, regents designate spend a year participating in board meetings and discussions.
00:06:24
Speaker
Sonia is the first Black woman to serve in this role.
00:06:27
Speaker
She's also a first-generation student and is currently pursuing a PhD in education and a master's of public health and community health sciences at UCLA.
00:06:36
Speaker
She will be a triple threat since she has also received her bachelor's degree from UCLA in history and African-American studies.
00:06:44
Speaker
Josiah and Sonia, welcome, and thank you so much for being here.
00:06:48
Speaker
Thank you for having us.
00:06:51
Speaker
This is wonderful.
00:06:52
Speaker
Thank you for that introduction.
Motivations for Becoming Student Regents: Representation & Impact
00:06:54
Speaker
Yes.
00:06:55
Speaker
I feel like it hardly captures all of the different facets of both of you, but that's what we're here for.
00:07:02
Speaker
So to start things off, I'd love to hear what motivated each of you to apply for this role.
00:07:09
Speaker
Was there a moment where you realized you really wanted to step into this particular leadership position?
00:07:15
Speaker
And yeah, what inspires you to serve your community in this way?
00:07:19
Speaker
And you get to decide who goes first.
00:07:22
Speaker
Well, ladies first.
00:07:24
Speaker
Oh, she always does this to me.
00:07:29
Speaker
But thank you for the question.
00:07:31
Speaker
I think what really motivated me was that although there was representation for students, I think it didn't quite have the zest in the field that I thought it should have, right?
00:07:47
Speaker
I thought that there were a number of issues, especially at the graduate level, that just seemed like they were not being addressed.
00:07:55
Speaker
What I came to learn was that graduate students were really not thought about when we start discussing equations and algorithms into how the UC system should run.
00:08:08
Speaker
And so a lot of times we, you know, in meetings, they had a plethora of data for undergraduate students.
00:08:16
Speaker
But then when I would ask the question, well, how do graduate students fare?
00:08:21
Speaker
in this particular topic.
00:08:22
Speaker
And it was silence.
00:08:24
Speaker
It was crickets, right?
00:08:25
Speaker
There was really no answer.
00:08:26
Speaker
And so that became
Challenges as the First Black Woman Student Regent
00:08:28
Speaker
very problematic for me because how can we give an informed decision about, you know, what best meets the needs of students without having great and accurate representation of both undergraduate and graduate students?
00:08:40
Speaker
Because we know that graduate students face a myriad of different problems, right?
00:08:44
Speaker
In saying all of that, I thought that this would be a wonderful platform upon which I could
00:08:51
Speaker
not only elevate the needs and the issues of both undergraduate and graduate students, but also pave the way for a lot of students who did not know what a UC regent was or what a student regent was and that that position even existed.
00:09:06
Speaker
So yeah, why not try and join forces with those who make the decisions for the backbone of the UC system, which are students?
00:09:16
Speaker
And here we are.
00:09:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:19
Speaker
That's great.
00:09:20
Speaker
Thank you for starting us off.
00:09:22
Speaker
All right.
00:09:22
Speaker
So, Josiah, what have you got to tell us?
00:09:25
Speaker
Well, I don't know how I followed that up, one.
00:09:27
Speaker
Let's start with that because that was incredible.
Experience of the First Undocumented Student Regent
00:09:30
Speaker
But I would say it really comes from what you talked about, Michelle, which are those first and why it matters so much.
00:09:36
Speaker
Not only am I the first student region from UC Merced, but I'm also the first undocumented student region.
00:09:43
Speaker
And both of those identities came from
00:09:45
Speaker
It's such a blessing to be in this role and an honor and a privilege that I never take for granted.
00:09:52
Speaker
I think when I went on that Wikipedia page, well, I know when I went on that Wikipedia page of all the past student regions, and I was looking for, oh, who was from UC Merced?
00:10:01
Speaker
And I didn't see UC Merced in the picture.
00:10:04
Speaker
I looked closely and I saw that UC Merced really wasn't in a lot of conversations, period.
00:10:10
Speaker
And here I was in this region, and I saw that reflected not only for the school, but for the San Joaquin Valley, where we're often neglected, we're diluted, and everyone thinks we're a homogenized group of people.
00:10:24
Speaker
And they don't realize that there's a diversity and a love and a care and a community in Merced, but in this region in general.
00:10:32
Speaker
And so when I saw that it was lacking representation, there was no representation from Merced, I said, well, there has to be, because I
00:10:40
Speaker
This is where the future of education is going.
00:10:43
Speaker
UC Merced is doing what higher ed's purpose is.
00:10:47
Speaker
to be the great equalizer, to serve Pell recipients, to serve diverse students, to be the number one for social mobility that we got this year, you know, to really serve its core values.
00:11:00
Speaker
And I think also being undocumented, there's so many conversations around what the value is that we bring to this country.
00:11:07
Speaker
And beyond the monetary value that we bring in money, in taxes, in our hard work,
00:11:14
Speaker
I know that we bring an immense amount of love.
00:11:17
Speaker
We're the people who care, you know, for other families, who care for communities, who take care of the food, the houses that our neighbors and people around us own.
00:11:27
Speaker
And so there's just a level of pride we have in coming to America.
00:11:32
Speaker
And I never take for granted what my parents sacrificed to come to America and what it means to be part of the UC system.
00:11:40
Speaker
And knowing that there's a privilege and an honor in that, because I
00:11:43
Speaker
These are spaces that they never got to go into or that any of my family being a first gen student and
00:11:49
Speaker
when I think about why I wanted to be student of REACHO and why I'm so passionate about this, I think about my mom.
00:11:55
Speaker
And I recently told this story, but when I was an undergrad, worked multiple jobs to put myself through undergrad as an undocumented student.
00:12:04
Speaker
And one of them was I cleaned houses alongside my mom, scrubbing floors, dusting, and homes we would never, ever be able to live in or afford, right?
00:12:14
Speaker
And I remember one day, you know, I'm looking for around the house and
00:12:18
Speaker
I find her and she has the bathroom door closed and I knock and I'm like, what are you doing?
00:12:23
Speaker
And she was like, I'm ashamed to let you see me cleaning this toilet.
00:12:27
Speaker
Like, I feel very embarrassed.
00:12:30
Speaker
And I remember telling her that moment, we're in this together.
00:12:33
Speaker
every success I have is because of you, but not only is it because of you, it's with you.
00:12:39
Speaker
So when I become student regent, it's just not me becoming student regent, it's you becoming student regent, it's my grandparents becoming, it's every single person in our communities who fought for us.
00:12:51
Speaker
And I know Sonia and I always talk about being both the first, it carries so much value and
00:12:58
Speaker
We don't believe in just being the first one through the door.
00:13:01
Speaker
We leave it open so there can be a second, a third, and a fourth because that's what we need to see in our system.
00:13:07
Speaker
This is not the first time I have been privileged to hear both of you talk about what brought you to this role, but I am as moved each time and appreciate your sharing that because your story, like you said, is everyone's story.
00:13:19
Speaker
Everyone can relate to a piece of, I believe, what you're saying.
00:13:23
Speaker
And it's amazing that you're bringing your energy and care to the UC system.
00:13:28
Speaker
And, you know, you've already mentioned so many firsts, so many ways that you've broken new ground.
00:13:34
Speaker
And I wondered if you could talk a little bit about what that's been like.
00:13:37
Speaker
I know everyone is sort of introduces you that way.
00:13:39
Speaker
And with that, I think comes a certain amount of expectation.
00:13:42
Speaker
And I anticipate it hasn't necessarily been easy.
00:13:45
Speaker
And so maybe you can just share a little bit about what that's been like.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:52
Speaker
Every time I get this question, I have to like read the room, right?
00:13:55
Speaker
Because I think it means different things to different people.
00:13:59
Speaker
And so I will just say at the beginning was, I think, one of the most difficult periods of my life.
00:14:07
Speaker
And the reason why I say that is because, you know, I entered into this space and at the time I can honestly say I really did not think about the gravity.
00:14:19
Speaker
of what not only this position was, but then being the first Black woman in this position as a student, and then being at the table that is really, you know, where a lot of the decisions for close to a million people in the state of California
00:14:39
Speaker
occur, right?
00:14:39
Speaker
So when you couple that with people who don't expect me or someone who looks like me to be seated at the table and to actually be invisible in a lot of these meetings, it really weighed heavily.
00:14:57
Speaker
It weighed heavily on who I was as a woman, as a mother, a woman of color, a scholar, and, you know, like in all of these other different attributes and
00:15:08
Speaker
And then it weighed heavenly upon those who may follow in my steps afterwards, right?
00:15:14
Speaker
Because, I mean, in research shows and anyone, you know, can type up the word Black woman in Google and it will say a host of negative things, right?
00:15:26
Speaker
And not really knowing who in this crowd or at this table may believe these things, especially by being the first Black woman as a student or
00:15:36
Speaker
Are they going to consider me aggressive?
00:15:38
Speaker
Are they going to consider me abusive and all of these other wild and crazy things?
00:15:44
Speaker
And so does that mean now I have to code switch?
00:15:47
Speaker
I have to tone down my tone and my voice?
00:15:50
Speaker
Do I have to modulate or if I modulate too much, is that going to be seen as a
00:15:55
Speaker
a sign of aggression.
00:15:56
Speaker
Can I wear braids?
00:15:58
Speaker
You know, must I always have my hair, you know, straight?
00:16:02
Speaker
Can I wear my natural curly hair?
00:16:04
Speaker
You know, so there's all these different things.
00:16:06
Speaker
Can I wear, I'm a person that loves big earrings, right?
00:16:10
Speaker
I love big earrings and I like to hug people and I'm really, you know, kind of energetic, you know?
00:16:16
Speaker
So it really made me look at myself and do this scan from the top
00:16:23
Speaker
of my hair all the way down to the soles of my feet.
00:16:27
Speaker
You know, so it really, really sent me through this, this warp.
00:16:31
Speaker
I don't want to say a time warp, but just a warp.
00:16:34
Speaker
And I really had to start questioning a lot about how can I not only be my authentic self, but be accepted.
00:16:43
Speaker
A lot of the times in the spaces, you know, I was either considered the help or I was lost.
00:16:49
Speaker
You know, did someone need me to help them find my way out of these spaces and into the spaces in which I belonged?
Overcoming Leadership Stereotypes & Barriers
00:16:57
Speaker
Right.
00:16:57
Speaker
So it really weighed heavily.
00:16:59
Speaker
So much so that after the first meeting, I was really going to quit.
00:17:03
Speaker
I was going to resign.
00:17:05
Speaker
And it just so happened that Josiah wasn't there at that meeting and I was just going crazy.
00:17:12
Speaker
You know, because in this position, we have really become really, really close, you know, and able to bounce a lot of things off of one another and just use each other as that support system.
00:17:24
Speaker
And so I, you know, I learned to just look, wrap myself up in all of the beauty that I possess.
00:17:34
Speaker
And if they don't accept me, they just don't.
00:17:37
Speaker
Right.
00:17:37
Speaker
I think I was nominated and awarded this position because.
00:17:41
Speaker
of everything that not only I've done, but I've been through that I have to wear on my shoulders and wear it like a coat.
00:17:51
Speaker
And, you know, I can't take off my coat because if I do, then it really, I think, does damage to those who have paved the way for me to be here, for those who have sacrificed my
00:18:06
Speaker
blood, sweat, and tears for me to be in this position, not only in this position, but also in this institution that was not designed for me or someone that looks like me.
00:18:19
Speaker
So, you know, I think I did a lot of growing.
00:18:23
Speaker
I call it a beautiful struggle.
00:18:25
Speaker
And I tell Josiah this a lot, that it's just preparing me for the next level.
00:18:30
Speaker
And I think whatever that level is, if I don't pass the test now of being able to absorb everything and not let it impact me so much so that I now begin to negate who I am and the ancestors before me that I've done all this for naught, right?
00:18:51
Speaker
So now it's beautiful.
00:18:54
Speaker
Now I walk into every meeting, you know, myself, I'm smiling, I'm loud, hey, I'm
00:18:58
Speaker
I wear my fingernail polish on my nails, you know, real cute.
00:19:03
Speaker
And so I think the perspective has changed considerably from when I started to where I am now.
00:19:10
Speaker
And it's basically because this is me, you know, love me or leave me, but you can't leave me alone because now I'm at the table.
00:19:18
Speaker
Thank you.
00:19:19
Speaker
That's so beautiful.
00:19:20
Speaker
I'm so glad you won first, Sonia, because you always unzip the vulnerability code so I can then open up and be vulnerable myself.
00:19:27
Speaker
Because I'm a wall builder, I like brick after brick just build it up.
00:19:31
Speaker
And so when I was asked this question before, you know, I'm always answering it like...
00:19:36
Speaker
oh, it's been a great experience because, you know, we want people to apply.
00:19:40
Speaker
But, you know, being vulnerable about it, it's been really, really, it's a difficult ride, right?
00:19:45
Speaker
Because I'd never been in a space like this before.
00:19:48
Speaker
And I've never been around people like this before, just, you know, who come from such high stashers who know so much and have so much knowledge and just have so much in their pedigree.
00:20:01
Speaker
And so what Sonia was talking about, about being the first, it's
00:20:06
Speaker
not a luxury it's really a responsibility right and I think it's a weight that we carry and it's not only ours but it's the weight of those who will follow and sometimes now I'm gonna get real real like sometimes where acts and sometimes even berated you know by our constituents whether it's students faculty staff whoever it may be other people you know around us like um
00:20:32
Speaker
Why aren't you raising more hell?
00:20:34
Speaker
Why aren't you yelling?
00:20:35
Speaker
Why aren't you, you know, calling them out, flipping tables?
00:20:38
Speaker
Some wanted metaphorically, others wanted physically, right?
00:20:41
Speaker
And what I think they don't know or never seem to consider, for me, it's just like my heart doesn't have the capacity to do that.
00:20:50
Speaker
I don't hold that kind of rage.
00:20:51
Speaker
And it's not because I don't feel that fire, but it's because I spent my entire life containing it.
00:20:57
Speaker
You know, I don't want to be what the world already believes that
00:21:01
Speaker
me as an undocumented person to be.
00:21:03
Speaker
And Sonia touched on that.
00:21:04
Speaker
You know, you look us up right now and there's so much around who we are in the media and other people writing our stories.
00:21:11
Speaker
And I don't want to be like people in my life who have, you know, family figures who have exhibited that.
00:21:17
Speaker
And so...
00:21:19
Speaker
We know going into that room, the anger that people may anticipate or how they expect us to be.
00:21:26
Speaker
And so I feel that burden to be the proof that we're not every stereotype and they haven't met people like us sitting at the table, right?
00:21:37
Speaker
So yes, we get mad.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yes, we get upset.
00:21:41
Speaker
But what hurts is when our restraint and our professionalism is met with
00:21:47
Speaker
judgment and anger from our own.
00:21:50
Speaker
And I think that's been a really tough process to learn throughout this is like, how do you balance both and how do you have space for both of them?
00:21:58
Speaker
Because we're just in such a politicized and angry time where nuance have left the conversation.
00:22:04
Speaker
And for us, you know, being in that room, trying to make a difference, I
00:22:09
Speaker
It's been a journey for sure.
00:22:10
Speaker
I would say on my first student regents, I sat, you know, in the back of the bus, had my headphones on.
00:22:15
Speaker
I'm thinking to myself, Rosa done fought this hard.
00:22:18
Speaker
And here I am back in the back of the bus, you know, like not making my space.
00:22:23
Speaker
But I felt so trepidatious because I was, you know, I didn't know how to have certain conversations.
00:22:28
Speaker
I would literally have sticky notes where I would write conversations and jokes down before I talked to certain people in the room because I was like, OK, I got to get this right and frame it.
00:22:38
Speaker
perfectly because, you know, I want them to think that I know what's going on and I need to help function these conversations.
00:22:45
Speaker
But it's been a lot of beautiful growth.
00:22:49
Speaker
What Sonia said in that last part, we've been able to see ourselves grow throughout the process, the pain, the knowledge, the inner workings.
00:22:59
Speaker
And for us and for myself, whenever, you know, I see something that I would do differently, I just remind myself, like,
00:23:06
Speaker
This is just the beginning of my journey.
00:23:09
Speaker
And eventually I'm going to be in these spaces in the future and I'm going to do it differently.
00:23:14
Speaker
I'm going to set the standard for the way I want it to look like.
00:23:17
Speaker
But right now, it's just a learning experience.
00:23:20
Speaker
And it's been one of the best experiential learning experiences that the UC system can offer to see the inner workings and get an understanding of every single
Exploring Free Speech Challenges
00:23:31
Speaker
segment.
00:23:31
Speaker
And so, yeah, I hope that answers all that.
00:23:34
Speaker
I mean, you couldn't answer it better.
00:23:36
Speaker
And to do it with openness and candor, I think is so important to showcase it's beautiful and worthwhile, but also hard and that there's like struggle in that.
00:23:48
Speaker
I want to come back to that in a little bit, but it's interesting when you mentioned sort of turning over tables, like literally and metaphorically, it makes me want to turn a little bit to something that's near and dear to the center's heart, which has to do with expression.
00:24:02
Speaker
Listen, I...
00:24:04
Speaker
Don't imagine that when you applied and were nominated for this role that you were envisioning global pandemics and a year of protests that have been the most significant in 60 years.
00:24:17
Speaker
And so I'm wondering, being in your role following October 7th, both observing and responding to the varying responses of different campus stakeholders, did
00:24:28
Speaker
being part of that impact or change how you conceive of the first amendment and free speech?
00:24:34
Speaker
And if yes, then how, and if no, why not?
00:24:40
Speaker
Your turn.
00:24:41
Speaker
I'm like waiting for Sonia to go.
00:24:46
Speaker
No, that's a beautiful question because it has been a huge learning experience.
00:24:52
Speaker
I was like,
00:24:52
Speaker
You know, we always come in with like things we want to work on, but that has taken up so much of our time is understanding what expression free speech looks like.
00:25:02
Speaker
You know, I think I've learned a lot throughout the process.
00:25:05
Speaker
What is protected speech?
00:25:06
Speaker
What is not protected speech?
00:25:08
Speaker
What is protest?
00:25:10
Speaker
What is in protest?
00:25:12
Speaker
What is allowed on our campuses?
00:25:13
Speaker
Re-evaluating rules and laws.
00:25:16
Speaker
But I think what remains throughout the conversation and what Sonia and I have had to thread behind the scenes,
00:25:23
Speaker
is that, you know, there may be disagreement about the method of the protests, but the care and the fight for what's there should not be evaded in those conversations, right?
00:25:35
Speaker
Because the world is responding in a visceral way to what's happening overseas, and we have to listen to that.
00:25:43
Speaker
And so that's what really this process has been about, is about listening and sometimes understanding
00:25:49
Speaker
getting through all the yelling and getting through all the, you know, flipping tables and see like, well, what, what do people care about and what are they trying to tell us and what are we missing as a body and trying to elevate those conversations.
00:26:03
Speaker
And, you know, we, we've tried to do that and we, we've tried to,
00:26:08
Speaker
explain where our students are coming from in this compassion.
00:26:11
Speaker
And I think that's why having student regents on the board is so important because we are on the ground.
00:26:16
Speaker
I mean, Sonia was there when that huge event at UCLA happened that took over media across the country, across the world, right?
00:26:24
Speaker
and having perspective in these conversations when we're talking about moments like that, when we're talking about this administration right now, what's going on in terms of free speech, it's important to have people like Sonia, who was on the ground at UCLA.
00:26:37
Speaker
It's important to have myself contextualize, you know, some of this history being an ethnic studies undergrad and trying to add context.
00:26:48
Speaker
And I think that
00:26:49
Speaker
Sometimes the public don't always see, you know, those conversations because a lot of it happens behind either closed doors, you know, offline.
00:26:57
Speaker
And we're trying to, you know.
00:26:58
Speaker
explain the bigger picture.
00:27:01
Speaker
And so that's been a little bit about the process.
00:27:03
Speaker
It's about a lot of educating the public, educating ourselves and listening, truly and honestly listening.
00:27:10
Speaker
And when it comes to the First Amendment, it's made me appreciate it even more.
00:27:14
Speaker
I worked for the ACLU before I joined the board.
00:27:17
Speaker
And so we know the ACLU is all about, you know, protecting the rights of
00:27:23
Speaker
Americans.
00:27:24
Speaker
And so I always learned from them.
00:27:26
Speaker
And they taught us that tenet of like, whether you agree with it or not, it's people's rights.
00:27:32
Speaker
And so we've had to learn what is the rights of our students, what is protected and what's not, and communicating that to them, but also communicating to them the plight of people in the past and what they've gone through, advocating for the things that they care about, what it looked like,
00:27:49
Speaker
being resistant, you know, waiting out the timeline, knowing that change doesn't happen overnight, etc.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah, well, this one is difficult, you know, I mean, I mean, I do know I do free speech every day.
00:28:03
Speaker
So yes, I'm glad to know it's not not misery loves company, but I'm like, Oh, good.
00:28:07
Speaker
I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds it really hard.
00:28:10
Speaker
No, no.
00:28:12
Speaker
And I think, you know, Josiah really hit the nail on the head.
00:28:16
Speaker
There was so much learning that really came with this position about free speech and First Amendment.
00:28:22
Speaker
And I can honestly say that after I was, I guess, inaugurated into the position in July, it was like all hell broke loose, right?
00:28:31
Speaker
I mean, we had, you know, so many things coming and didn't know that there was more to come.
00:28:37
Speaker
You know, we didn't know at that time that the administration was going to turn.
00:28:41
Speaker
We thought, you know, it may, but we didn't know that.
00:28:45
Speaker
We didn't know that L.A.
00:28:46
Speaker
was going to get hit with the fires.
00:28:47
Speaker
We didn't know a whole bunch of stuff.
00:28:49
Speaker
And I was like, you guys set me up, right?
00:28:51
Speaker
You put me on purpose because it was almost the perfect
Impact of Hurtful Free Speech Comments
00:28:55
Speaker
storm, right?
00:28:55
Speaker
And so many things that I had not, not only not thought about, but been experienced in handling or talking to students about because it was a first for all of us.
00:29:07
Speaker
And so I remember attending one of the regents meetings last year.
00:29:14
Speaker
Oh my gosh, it pained me so much because I remember one of the public speakers, they were protesting, of course, and it was around the encampment time.
00:29:26
Speaker
And they said a negative comment about President Drake's mother.
00:29:33
Speaker
I could not believe it because I know that
00:29:37
Speaker
there's no way in the world I would have been able to keep my cool.
00:29:40
Speaker
You talking about my mama?
00:29:42
Speaker
And there's a lot of things that you can talk about, but you can't talk about my mama or my kids, right?
00:29:49
Speaker
Regardless of the relationship.
00:29:50
Speaker
And the way that he sat there and took it was just the epitome of not only grace, but understanding what free speech means.
00:30:04
Speaker
And every time I hear free speech, I think of him because the student had every right to say what she did.
00:30:15
Speaker
It was, you know, protected speech.
00:30:18
Speaker
However, the impact is what...
00:30:23
Speaker
really bothers me.
00:30:25
Speaker
Right.
00:30:25
Speaker
And so that's where I have this kind of battle with, you know, what is protected, what is free speech, but then the impact that it has and how do you sit with that?
00:30:39
Speaker
And then how do you shake that part off?
00:30:42
Speaker
Right.
00:30:42
Speaker
And I don't know, I don't know if I have that answer, but what I tell
00:30:47
Speaker
students when we're in these spaces and we're talking about protesting what's right and what's not right and, you know, what's the TPM time, place, and manner policy and, you know, being arrested.
00:31:01
Speaker
I tell people,
00:31:03
Speaker
Look, we all have different perspectives, but the challenge is sitting with the impact of something that they have said.
00:31:11
Speaker
And I think that's where a lot of people have a problem with understanding and or accepting that.
00:31:19
Speaker
free speech because you've now hurt me to my core by something that you've said.
00:31:26
Speaker
Now, a lot of times people want to exact that same hurt, honestly, hurt people, hurt people, right?
00:31:33
Speaker
And so it's a matter of how do you now
00:31:37
Speaker
Absorb that and then also now have a frame of mind to where you can't let it hurt you.
00:31:44
Speaker
I tell my students and my children, you have to have the skin of a duck and let water roll off your back, just like ducks do, right?
00:31:53
Speaker
Water off of a duck's back.
00:31:55
Speaker
It's difficult, but it's a skill that has to be perfected.
00:31:59
Speaker
And I think by being in these spaces, I see the regents and the chancellors and the administrators, they have perfected that skill.
00:32:09
Speaker
Students, we still got a little bit of ways to go.
00:32:13
Speaker
And I think the more opportunities that were in these spaces, of course, it will definitely come to fruition.
00:32:21
Speaker
But in all honesty and transparency,
00:32:25
Speaker
Those are the two battles that I see.
00:32:27
Speaker
It's the, you know, free speech, knowing that this is protected, but then the impact that it has.
00:32:33
Speaker
How do we really sit with that and then be able to articulate it in a way that it doesn't continue to damage us, but it helps us build from and then not be so sensitive about it the next time it happens?
00:32:48
Speaker
Because it will, you know.
00:32:49
Speaker
So I think that's a skill that I need to learn.
00:32:52
Speaker
I mean, I think it's
00:32:53
Speaker
We're all being honest.
00:32:55
Speaker
Well, I can say I know it's a skill that I could use.
00:32:59
Speaker
I just want to say, you know, it makes me think of this, you know, nursery rhyme that I never understood and never liked, which is sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
00:33:09
Speaker
It never sat right with me.
00:33:11
Speaker
And I don't think that it's true.
00:33:13
Speaker
And, you know, one thing that I think a lot about is this rights versus responsibilities, this idea that just because something, just because you're allowed to say something doesn't mean you should, right?
00:33:25
Speaker
And sort of how do we inculcate this idea of being a responsible person?
00:33:30
Speaker
member of the community when we use our voices.
00:33:32
Speaker
And I was going to ask you both something about listening because you both talked about, not just now, but in our last conversation when you met with our voice cohort about how much of your day-to-day Regent life is listening.
00:33:45
Speaker
And I'm wondering if your experience has been that the people that you interact with, whether it's in the actual meetings or as you travel around campuses, are able to do that reciprocally and kind of how that plays out.
00:33:59
Speaker
Hmm.
00:34:00
Speaker
That's an interesting question.
00:34:04
Speaker
I think I'm going to touch on that, but I want to say something that Sonia just touched on right now about President Drake.
00:34:10
Speaker
And this goes into listening because I've really seen this from him.
00:34:14
Speaker
It's his ability to listen.
00:34:16
Speaker
I've seen it from him.
00:34:17
Speaker
I've seen it from a couple of the chancellors, especially Chancellor Gary May out at Davis.
00:34:23
Speaker
They do what my mom says so well.
00:34:25
Speaker
You got two ears and one mouth, right?
00:34:27
Speaker
So you listen more than you talk, right?
00:34:31
Speaker
I will say like Sonia and I have such an immense respect for President Drake because we're here because of him.
00:34:38
Speaker
As the first Black UC president, I mean, we have to respect what it takes and the plight of Black people in this country with all that's against them to continue to thrive to those lengths.
00:34:55
Speaker
And so there's a level of respect that I will always, always have.
00:35:00
Speaker
For my elders and people around me.
00:35:03
Speaker
And that's just how I was.
00:35:04
Speaker
I was raised in a Pentecostal household where you say, yes, sir, yes, ma'am.
00:35:09
Speaker
And, you know, church every Sunday.
00:35:10
Speaker
And that's just the type of community.
00:35:12
Speaker
But, like, you really understand that, like...
00:35:14
Speaker
there are people who paved the way for you and you are here because of that.
00:35:19
Speaker
So whether it's him, whether it's, you know, region emeritus, John Perez, you know, the first, you know, openly queer speaker of like those positions matter because it opens doors.
00:35:31
Speaker
So regardless if we may disagree on an issue, and I think at the end of the day, there has to be a lot of level of respect, but when it comes to listening, we try to do that a lot on our campuses and,
00:35:44
Speaker
you know, we try to explain and sometimes that doesn't go over well.
00:35:49
Speaker
And I did something recently and I really learned this from Sonia where I was at a campus and, you know, students were really upset about a certain issue and I switched the question and I said, what would care, what would taking care of the situation, what would solving the problem, what
00:36:08
Speaker
what would support look like?
00:36:12
Speaker
And I remember they kind of went quiet for a little bit because I think we've taught our students really well how to talk about the complex issues and the problems that they see.
00:36:24
Speaker
But what we haven't taught them is how to talk about the solutions.
00:36:28
Speaker
And Sonia and I always tell students, if you're going to bring the problem, you've got to bring the solution too.
00:36:34
Speaker
Right.
00:36:34
Speaker
Because like what what Audre Lorde, the master's tools cannot dismantle the master's house.
00:36:40
Speaker
So if you're expecting us and the institution.
00:36:43
Speaker
to dismantle the problem that you're experiencing, it's always going to let you down because it's not what you're looking for.
00:36:51
Speaker
So when I switched that question to them and no one really could answer it to me and they said, you know, that's kind of your job, that's the role you're in, I look and I say, but I'm not experiencing it firsthand like you are.
00:37:05
Speaker
So yes, I can
00:37:06
Speaker
Come up with my creativity.
00:37:08
Speaker
I could hop on ChatGPT and find out some solutions for the problem.
00:37:12
Speaker
We could do that all day, but that's not going to satisfy the support and need that you're looking for.
00:37:19
Speaker
So sometimes we have to tell ourselves to really sit down.
00:37:23
Speaker
in what we're experiencing and also really identify.
00:37:27
Speaker
I was just at a restorative justice training and we talked about how we really need to be critical about the words that we use.
00:37:35
Speaker
For example, when we say we feel unsafe, are we truly unsafe?
00:37:39
Speaker
When we say we feel harmed, are we harmed?
00:37:42
Speaker
Are we hurt?
00:37:43
Speaker
Are we just having a difference of opinion?
00:37:46
Speaker
Because what we've done is
00:37:49
Speaker
in our world is we've diluted the essence and the importance of words, right?
00:37:54
Speaker
If you're saying you're unsafe, are you sure you're unsafe?
00:37:57
Speaker
Because I can tell you, my parents and people I know who are undocumented and immigrants, we've led situations that were truly unsafe.
00:38:06
Speaker
That's what unsafe looks like in some of these countries.
00:38:09
Speaker
So are you feeling unsafe?
00:38:11
Speaker
Like really being attuned to the way we're talking about it?
00:38:15
Speaker
So that's
00:38:16
Speaker
When we talk about listening, I think it also is in tandem teaching our students and our generation how to communicate.
00:38:24
Speaker
And maybe I'm wrong about that.
00:38:25
Speaker
Maybe, you know, I'll wake up and be on the wrong side of history.
00:38:28
Speaker
And Sonia, you could tell me your perspective.
00:38:30
Speaker
I'm very curious.
00:38:31
Speaker
No, I think you definitely hit the nail on the head again.
00:38:34
Speaker
You know, it's all about communication.
00:38:37
Speaker
And another thing that I definitely tell my students and my children, and you can ask them and they will tell you verbatim what I say, is that you need to listen to understand someone as opposed to listening just to respond.
00:38:52
Speaker
Two totally different things, right?
00:38:55
Speaker
And when they want me to understand their perspective, I won't say anything.
00:39:00
Speaker
But then when it's time for them to listen to mine, all they're doing is like...
00:39:06
Speaker
You can see that they're just waiting to jump in.
00:39:09
Speaker
It's almost like they're waiting to play double dutch, right?
00:39:12
Speaker
And waiting to jump in so I can respond.
00:39:14
Speaker
I'm like, no, no, no, no.
00:39:16
Speaker
I want you to listen to what it is that I'm saying, because I think that value of communication is so essential.
00:39:24
Speaker
Because when you listen to someone, especially if there's an issue or a hot topic, there is pain there, right?
00:39:32
Speaker
There is some type of either injustice or pain or a wrong that has been done to someone.
00:39:39
Speaker
And a lot of times they just want you to listen.
00:39:41
Speaker
Just listen to what it is that I'm saying so you can understand where it is that I'm coming from.
00:39:47
Speaker
Because if I don't know where you're coming from, how can I tell you where to go?
00:39:51
Speaker
So it's such an essential task and skill just to be able to listen to understand.
00:39:57
Speaker
And I think a lot of the angst is.
00:40:00
Speaker
and the challenges and the wars and the fights that we find ourselves in could be so easily resolved if we just do that.
00:40:09
Speaker
Like Josiah's mama said, and mine's too, you got two ears and one mouth.
00:40:13
Speaker
I have been using that because I did not know that maxim.
00:40:17
Speaker
But I think that you both are so incredibly wise.
00:40:20
Speaker
And I'm a little embarrassed to share this.
00:40:22
Speaker
It reminds me of being in school and I was
00:40:25
Speaker
really into school.
00:40:26
Speaker
And I remember a teacher told me, you can't be raising your hand and listening to what somebody else is saying at the same time.
00:40:34
Speaker
Right.
00:40:34
Speaker
And in my mind, I was just excited, right.
00:40:36
Speaker
To share whatever it was that I thought it really impacted me because it made me realize that like, probably yes, by raising my hand and being focused on how I was going to either respond or what question I was going to ask, I wasn't taking in what the other person
Fostering Constructive Dialogue: Solutions & Problems
00:40:50
Speaker
was saying.
00:40:50
Speaker
And so,
00:40:51
Speaker
You know, that's a life skill.
00:40:53
Speaker
It is.
00:40:54
Speaker
I want to circle back to something that Josiah said about, or gosh, maybe both.
00:40:59
Speaker
I don't know which of you said it, but one of you two brilliant people said about being part of the solution and asking people
00:41:07
Speaker
people to think about how they want to be part of the solution.
00:41:09
Speaker
And I was curious if maybe you have a couple examples to share with our listeners about student engagement or student activism that made an impact on Regent, either decision-making or how things were framed as sort of examples of how being part of the solution can actually change things.
00:41:28
Speaker
Maybe each of you has one example you want to share.
00:41:32
Speaker
Well, I'll say first off, and Sonia needs to tell the story.
00:41:35
Speaker
She got this position because of that in and of itself, right?
00:41:40
Speaker
Like how she framed it and she can tell that story.
00:41:42
Speaker
I don't know that story.
00:41:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's incredible to hear the power of like how you bring something to the room really matters and it helps you when you're trying to advocate later.
00:41:54
Speaker
But what we always tell people is like three things.
00:41:56
Speaker
Definitely that like when you're going to bring the problem, always talk about the solution to you got to be data informed and bring that as well.
00:42:05
Speaker
And so, for example,
00:42:06
Speaker
We had something at our January meeting where one of our graduate students, her name is Sarah Bacon, brought up police accountability boards.
00:42:15
Speaker
And she was just saying, you know, these haven't been operating much on our campuses.
00:42:19
Speaker
This is the data on the last reports.
00:42:21
Speaker
They're supposed to reporting.
00:42:22
Speaker
every other year, whatever it may be.
00:42:25
Speaker
I went and talked to other campuses.
00:42:27
Speaker
This is what I collected on how long they've been meeting.
00:42:30
Speaker
This is why police accountability boards are important.
00:42:33
Speaker
I'm ready to do some work.
00:42:35
Speaker
And so then we had an item later on on that day, and Sonia could verify this.
00:42:38
Speaker
That was the main topic.
00:42:40
Speaker
It was, hey, this student said this during the public comment.
00:42:44
Speaker
This was the data she provided.
00:42:46
Speaker
What are we doing about it?
00:42:47
Speaker
And so it really got our
00:42:49
Speaker
people at OP to think about, okay, if these police accountability boards don't have anything to report at the moment, what could they be doing proactively?
00:42:58
Speaker
How could they be engaging with the campus community to build better relationships?
00:43:02
Speaker
How can, you know, accountability look different than a slap on the wrist or punitive in nature, right?
00:43:10
Speaker
How could it look like a
00:43:11
Speaker
If you're going to be accountable, how do you be accountable before you need to be accountable?
00:43:17
Speaker
How do you be accountable to the protect and the serve part?
00:43:21
Speaker
How are you serving your community?
00:43:23
Speaker
And so it was really beautiful to have that conversation with Jody and hear him say, like, you know, this is what we're going to start to do.
00:43:30
Speaker
Jody's from UCOP and in charge of safety for those of you out there.
00:43:34
Speaker
And so it was just really beautiful to see how, like, when students bring something together,
00:43:38
Speaker
and provide the data, provide the solutions, provide, you know, the stories and the empathy behind it, how it translates.
00:43:47
Speaker
And we can verify behind the scenes the conversations that then happen afterwards where people say, no, this is something that's important and we need to critically look at.
00:43:56
Speaker
So that's just a small example, but we really do see it all the time.
00:43:59
Speaker
And I'd love for Sonia to tell her story on how it helped her.
00:44:05
Speaker
With that introduction.
00:44:08
Speaker
You know, and I think it really goes back to, you know, this communication piece.
00:44:14
Speaker
Right.
00:44:14
Speaker
And a lot of times, and this is, you know, like another thing that I really live by, it's, you know, where my passion and my persistence meets the poise and my perseverance.
00:44:28
Speaker
Right.
00:44:29
Speaker
Right.
00:44:29
Speaker
But a lot of times it's that poise that really kind of gets you in the door.
00:44:34
Speaker
Right.
00:44:34
Speaker
Because you can have this passion and be persistent, but the way that you deliver it, not really be receptive.
00:44:42
Speaker
Right.
00:44:42
Speaker
So.
00:44:44
Speaker
Here's the story.
00:44:45
Speaker
So attending the regents meetings, you know, and just really kind of taking it all in.
00:44:49
Speaker
I see students and just the public during public engagement or public speeches, just like really going off, right?
00:44:57
Speaker
Just, you know, everything is...
00:44:59
Speaker
is bad and it's this and it's that.
00:45:02
Speaker
And then I noticed that there were a number of others who had like stories, right?
00:45:06
Speaker
And those really caught the attention of the regents.
00:45:10
Speaker
But then when, you know, the posters were coming up and when they're talking about President Drake's mama and all this other stuff, I see that the regents really have this wall up.
00:45:22
Speaker
And either they're on the computer, they're looking, but not really engaging, or they're on their phones or taking care of something else.
00:45:29
Speaker
So I knew that it was really, really on my top list about graduate student housing.
00:45:36
Speaker
There made no sense why at UCLA, only 22% of graduates had housing.
00:45:41
Speaker
And we had a number of students sleeping in cars and just a horrible situation.
00:45:46
Speaker
So about a week before, I could not come up with a speech.
00:45:50
Speaker
And then all of a sudden,
00:45:52
Speaker
something just rung in my mind and I started writing it down.
00:45:54
Speaker
I'm like, this is the most stupidest thing that I've ever done.
00:45:57
Speaker
So I get mad at myself.
00:45:58
Speaker
I was embarrassed that I was writing it.
00:46:00
Speaker
Right.
00:46:01
Speaker
And I'm like, you know what?
00:46:01
Speaker
I'm just going to speak, you know, off the cuff.
00:46:04
Speaker
I'm really good at just talking about things and so on and so forth.
00:46:06
Speaker
I left to go to this meeting to give the speech in front of the regents.
00:46:11
Speaker
Here I go.
00:46:12
Speaker
So I have no clue of what to say.
00:46:15
Speaker
I read the speech, the regents clapped.
00:46:18
Speaker
Right.
00:46:19
Speaker
I sat down and I'm still kicking myself in the butt.
00:46:23
Speaker
I'm like, that's so stupid.
00:46:24
Speaker
I can't believe I did it.
00:46:25
Speaker
I can't believe I did that.
00:46:26
Speaker
Anyway, so now lunchtime is there, right?
00:46:29
Speaker
So I see people in the rooms eating lunch.
00:46:33
Speaker
And so I peeked my head in and I was like, I'm just going to go sit in the corner by myself, eat this good food because I'm not going to turn down the food.
00:46:40
Speaker
And then I'm just going to leave because I'm just so embarrassed.
00:46:43
Speaker
And everyone at the table were like, oh my God, Sonia, your speech was incredible.
00:46:48
Speaker
Come sit at the table with us and eat.
00:46:51
Speaker
And I'm looking around like, you guys are talking to me?
00:46:54
Speaker
And they were like, yeah, they were like, we've never seen the regents clap nor smile for a speech ever.
00:47:03
Speaker
That was also the meeting that I saw myself at the table of being at the regents, right?
00:47:09
Speaker
So,
00:47:10
Speaker
Here come applications.
00:47:12
Speaker
And a friend of mine who was Josiah's predecessor was trying to get me to apply.
00:47:18
Speaker
And I was like, absolutely not.
00:47:20
Speaker
You know, I'm just not the type.
00:47:22
Speaker
And he was like, no, just go ahead and do it anyway.
00:47:25
Speaker
So come to find out that the regents remembered my speech from the previous year, which helped me become a
00:47:38
Speaker
noticed, I guess, so to speak, right?
00:47:41
Speaker
And just so you know, I did a all-time Elvis Presley speech that used the titles of his songs, but it talked about graduate housing and the, you know, Heartbreak Hotels, we're tired of living in Heartbreak Hotels, so don't be cruel.
00:48:01
Speaker
You know, so it ran through a list of his greatest hits, but it talked about graduate housing and
00:48:07
Speaker
So even to this day, the regents still remember that speech.
00:48:12
Speaker
So that's how...
00:48:14
Speaker
I got here.
00:48:14
Speaker
So I think I say all that to say that it's about the delivery, right?
00:48:18
Speaker
It's about the poise that you have with the delivery.
00:48:21
Speaker
The passion is definitely there, but it's how you deliver it.
00:48:25
Speaker
And you have to read the room and you have to know the audience to which you're speaking and craft those speeches or those pieces and those products that will be receptive to your audience.
00:48:37
Speaker
So that's a great story.
00:48:39
Speaker
And I think maybe you need to take all the songs and make a playlist.
00:48:45
Speaker
Exactly, for the regents.
00:48:47
Speaker
Yeah, for the regents.
00:48:48
Speaker
And I'll take a copy.
00:48:51
Speaker
So I'm feeling so like upbeat.
00:48:53
Speaker
And so I'm sort of sad to turn to like this particular moment, which I don't need to tell both of you, right, is incredibly terrifying and overwhelming and exhausting for people in higher education.
00:49:06
Speaker
And I know that sometimes it can slow you down.
00:49:10
Speaker
Some days it's almost paralyzing.
00:49:13
Speaker
So I'm wondering, especially when the pace of change can be slower than the rate of sort of undermining of values and institutions, like, yeah, what keeps both of you going?
00:49:27
Speaker
And it doesn't have to be everything.
00:49:28
Speaker
It can just be, you know, one thing today, you know, that might keep you going.
00:49:35
Speaker
It's really, and this is kind of a motif through what we're saying is that
00:49:40
Speaker
Knowing the backs of which we stand on to be in our seats.
00:49:44
Speaker
And, you know, I said this when we had our voice conference that if federal funding is what's going to stop us from doing the work that we're doing, then you're not really in the work.
00:49:57
Speaker
Because like I said at that meeting, Harriet Tubman didn't have federal funding when she was going above the Mason-Dixie line and back, you know, to free people.
00:50:08
Speaker
And Huey P. Newton didn't have federal funding when he started the Black Panther movement in Oakland and was helping with free lunch and health care and helping with economic inequality.
00:50:22
Speaker
All these civil rights leaders who paved the way for us did it under the most stringent conditions to try to dismiss them and take them out of the picture.
00:50:35
Speaker
And if they can do it under those circumstances, then we have no excuse.
00:50:41
Speaker
We truly have no excuse.
00:50:43
Speaker
And if it's going to take federal funding for me to stop what I'm doing, it's just it's never going to happen because I'm so passionate about this work.
00:50:52
Speaker
We both are so passionate about our communities.
00:50:56
Speaker
about our students, about the content that we teach.
00:51:00
Speaker
And so, you know, every time we hear a new executive order telling us we can't say certain words or we can't have diversity, equity and inclusion, we can't have this, we can't have that.
00:51:13
Speaker
I told someone recently,
00:51:16
Speaker
If they come up with something else, something we can say, something we can, you tell them to check the clock so they know exactly what time we're on, okay?
00:51:24
Speaker
Because we're on the time of I'm coming to the table, I'm going to speak my truth because people before me did it so I can be in these spaces and I'm going to speak it so our children and our generations after us can have those spaces too.
00:51:39
Speaker
So it really comes down to the fact that we have...
00:51:44
Speaker
too much on the line right now to not speak up.
Resilience & Hope: Overcoming Challenges
00:51:48
Speaker
So any way that you can get involved, you got to just find that one issue, whatever it may be, that you're very passionate about, you see being attacked by, and you've got to fight for it, because there's too much on the line to let it to be passive right now.
00:52:04
Speaker
Yeah, beautifully said.
00:52:06
Speaker
I think what keeps me going is seeing three pairs of eyes looking at me and then the other pairs of eyes that are looking at me that I don't even know are there, right?
00:52:16
Speaker
But just thinking of what...
00:52:21
Speaker
my experiences have been up until this point, right?
00:52:25
Speaker
Single mom of three, you know, formerly homeless, experience food insecurity.
00:52:33
Speaker
And just knowing how not only resilient I had to be, and oh my gosh, I'm getting emotional, I can't believe it.
00:52:42
Speaker
How resilient someone has to be to utilize resources that are,
00:52:52
Speaker
are told are not for them.
00:52:53
Speaker
That's told that are not for them, right?
00:52:55
Speaker
That you can only move within this box, within this box.
00:52:59
Speaker
And in this box are so many no's.
00:53:03
Speaker
No, you can't do this.
00:53:04
Speaker
No, you don't qualify.
00:53:06
Speaker
No, we don't want to give it to you.
00:53:07
Speaker
No, just no, right?
00:53:10
Speaker
And knowing if I had a nickel for all of the times, or even a penny for all of the times that I was told no, I would definitely be a millionaire.
00:53:21
Speaker
But it only takes that one yes.
00:53:24
Speaker
And not stopping until I heard that one yes, that really changed the trajectory upon which I would have found myself if I believed that I was not worthy of that yes.
00:53:39
Speaker
So you ask what keeps me going.
00:53:41
Speaker
I think it is knowing that this too shall pass.
00:53:45
Speaker
This time and period that we find ourselves in, it is not new.
00:53:50
Speaker
We've been here before a few times.
00:53:53
Speaker
And the time and the period and the things that we were fighting for may look a little different.
00:53:57
Speaker
But then when you do
00:53:58
Speaker
peel back that onion, you'll see that the root of what is going on now has been going on for a number of centuries.
00:54:06
Speaker
And the way that we've overcome them is the way that we're going to be able to overcome these situations as well.
00:54:14
Speaker
But I think in all of that,
00:54:16
Speaker
It is essential.
00:54:18
Speaker
It is very much essential that during these periods, we don't lose sense of who we are at our core because this administration, this period of time is so divisive.
00:54:33
Speaker
And it is pitting us against one another.
00:54:37
Speaker
People who have been friends and neighbors for years are now looking at one another with a side eye, right?
00:54:45
Speaker
If we don't lose sense of who we are at our core, we will come through this fight unscathed.
00:54:52
Speaker
But if we allow it to permeate through the weaving of humanity that I would like to believe the majority of us have,
00:55:01
Speaker
then we will find ourselves in for an uphill battle.
00:55:05
Speaker
But I know that at the end of this battle, we will be victorious and we will win.
00:55:10
Speaker
That I do know.
00:55:11
Speaker
But just getting there, it may take us not only some time, but some collective activity, some collective activism, which is really going to be the beacon that is going to get us through this period.
00:55:24
Speaker
So just knowing that, and I believe that with all my heart,
00:55:28
Speaker
that that is what's going to happen.
00:55:30
Speaker
I'm very optimistic about it.
00:55:32
Speaker
So I'm okay.
00:55:33
Speaker
This can happen, but yet this too shall pass.
00:55:36
Speaker
I mean, I feel like if we're going to end up closing on a note of light and optimism, right?
00:55:44
Speaker
Fiat Lux.
00:55:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:46
Speaker
Josiah, do you want to have another quick last word?
00:55:50
Speaker
Because I could talk to you all day, but... I just wanted to say this one last thing if I can.
00:55:56
Speaker
Of course.
00:55:56
Speaker
If that's okay.
00:55:57
Speaker
And I think this is a great point to add on.
00:56:00
Speaker
And, you know, Sonia and I are very, you know, spiritual and God has really put us in this position and we're so blessed to be here.
00:56:07
Speaker
And my mom and I, we talk all the time.
00:56:11
Speaker
And I saw someone say the other day, and we talked about this, God saw me rushing in life and made me start all over again.
00:56:19
Speaker
Not because he wanted to punish me, but because he knew I was building something too fragile to last.
00:56:26
Speaker
He isn't delaying me.
00:56:28
Speaker
He's just preparing me.
00:56:30
Speaker
Right now, I feel like we're being prepared.
00:56:32
Speaker
And he isn't taking away from our progress.
00:56:35
Speaker
He's giving us the foundation to carry something greater.
00:56:38
Speaker
So sometimes what we feel in this moment feels like a setback.
00:56:43
Speaker
is really just grace in disguise and a chance to rebuild stronger, wiser, and more unshakable than before.
00:56:51
Speaker
Microphone drop.
00:56:52
Speaker
That's right.
00:56:54
Speaker
Well, I think I'll just end by saying, you know, I'm a proud graduate of UC and I'm even more proud to be part of an intellectual community that would be
00:57:10
Speaker
wisely choose to have the two of you representing the hundreds of thousands of students that are part of UC Now and also
00:57:21
Speaker
Ultimately representing all of the people who have been students at UC and the fact that you were able to take an hour to spend with speech matters.
00:57:33
Speaker
I'm really grateful you bring meaning to those words that speech matters and we need to be thoughtful and critical about the words we use.
00:57:42
Speaker
And so I just want to say thank you so much.
00:57:45
Speaker
Thank you.
00:57:47
Speaker
Thank you for this opportunity.
00:57:49
Speaker
Thank you.
00:57:50
Speaker
That's a wrap.
00:57:51
Speaker
Thanks again to Josiah and Sonia for joining us.
00:57:53
Speaker
Next month, we'll be joined by Jeremy Young, a historian and leader who's been speaking out against educational censorship.
00:58:00
Speaker
In the meantime, applications for the Center's 2025-2026 fellowship program close this Friday at midnight.
00:58:06
Speaker
If you're working on your application, be sure to submit by then.
00:58:09
Speaker
Additionally, we look forward to seeing you all online at the Center's upcoming annual Speech Matters Conference.
00:58:15
Speaker
Register at freespeechcenter.universityofcalifornia.edu.
00:58:18
Speaker
Talk to you next time.