Transcript
Speaker: This is HSBC Global Viewpoint, your window into the thinking, trends and issues shaping global banking and markets.
Speaker: Join us as we hear from industry leaders and HSBC experts on the latest insights and opportunities for your business.
Speaker: A heads up to our listeners that this episode has been recorded remotely, therefore the sound quality may vary.
Speaker: Thank you for listening.
Speaker: You're listening to the Markets and Security Services Outlook, a podcast mini-series exploring the critical topics that will shape our industry in the next decade, including sustainability, digitalization and emerging markets.
Speaker: Find out what's driving the global outlook for institutional investors and where the opportunities and challenges lie.
Speaker: Thank you for joining us.
Speaker: So my name is Patrick Wong.
Speaker: I look after the China business development and client management in HSBC market and security services.
Speaker: I'm pleased to be joined by Amy Cho, CEO, Hong Kong and Head of Distribution, Asia Pacific, Shoulders Investment Management, as well as Daniel Chan, Head of Greater Bay Area, HSBC China.
Speaker: We will be covering an overview about the Greater Bay Area and the opportunities, the upcoming Wealth Management Connect program, the opportunities and the readiness of the program as well.
Speaker: So some of the facts about the Greater Bay Area, it covers 11 cities in China, including two special administration regions, namely Hong Kong and Macau, as well as nine cities in this area.
Speaker: So maybe the first question I will pose to Daniel regarding, can you share with us the Greater Bay Area genodynamics as well as the wealth population in this area?
Speaker: Yeah, thank you, Patrick.
Speaker: Yeah, and thanks for having me here.
Speaker: I think GBA, you've already outlined that this is what we usually call the 9 plus 2, the two Hong Kong and McLeod plus nine cities in the PRD, which is a subset of Guangdong, basically the urban area of Guangdong.
Speaker: Population-wise, it's over 70 million and it's generating a GDP of 1.82 trillion US dollar in 2020.
Speaker: So if we classify that as a country, actually this GDP is comparable to South Korea and Canada and it's the 11 largest in the world in terms of economic size.
Speaker: Based on a lot of the forecast, GBA is going to become the economic powerhouse with the expected GDP
Speaker: of 4.6 trillion by 2030.
Speaker: So it's a 2.5 times increase by 2030.
Speaker: Actually, each of the cities have its own unique positioning, like Hong Kong being an international trading financial hub, and also like in Sunsheng, then its innovation in Guangzhou.
Speaker: trading within China and a lot of the other advanced manufacturing.
Speaker: And then also I think in the latest China five-year plan, the 14 five-year plan, it's put a lot of focus on dual circulation.
Speaker: Again, one is on the international circulation, which GBA is well-positioned because of our window, because of Hong Kong and Shenzhen and Guangzhou for the international side.
Speaker: but also internal circulation, driving a lot of internal consumption, so and boosting the economic growth.
Speaker: And that's also give rise to a large group of middle class, so the wealth accumulation would also happen.
Speaker: So that's the backdrop of the GBA.
Speaker: Now, Guangdong, just now I talked about 70 million population,
Speaker: It's actually 5% by percentage of the entire China population, but Guangdong contributes 12% of GDP, which means that it's already above average in terms of its wealth.
Speaker: But I think if we drill deeper into it, in Guangdong area, actually there are 290,000 families owning over
Speaker: will be 10 million in assets.
Speaker: So again, it's showing it is affluent.
Speaker: According to a research done by McKinsey, there are about 5 to 10 million affluent GPA retail customers in the region, and many of them actually have strong cross-border needs, in particular interest in wealth and health, which is the insurance size of things, and related products.
Speaker: So I think it gives rise to a very exciting opportunity for banking.
Speaker: Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker: The next question definitely to Amy.
Speaker: So a lot of the market participants are aiming at opportunities riding on these statistics.
Speaker: And so may we know about the strategy for shoulders in this region?
Speaker: Thanks, Patrick.
Speaker: You know, actually, like you, I found that hearing from Daniel, all the numbers, truly very exciting.
Speaker: And, you know, as an asset manager, we go after markets where there are wealth opportunities, especially when there are also growth of these wealth opportunities.
Speaker: And for sure it is, you know, like GBA is essentially one of the most affluent region within in mainland China.
Speaker: And talk about China, we have long years of experience and also business activities in mainland China.
Speaker: And over the last, I think, like decades, you've seen a lot of, I guess, of cross-border activities between Hong Kong or actually between China and also other locations.
Speaker: like we have been distributing funds in mainland China to the Chinese investors, be they through the QTII program or more recently the MRF, Northbound Fund.
Speaker: So with that, actually we already established a quite a national network of our distribution partners, including foreign banks operating in mainland China, as well as the Chinese banks and also more recently, you know, the FinTech platforms, which in a way has helped us in covering the Chinese investors geographically but without boundary.
Speaker: So I think talking about our strategy for GBA is primarily just this within part of our long term commitment in developing ourselves and the presence further in surfacing the investment needs of the Chinese investors, including not only the institutional or the sophisticated investors, but also I guess like into the mass affluent and so eventually into the retail space.
Speaker: So overall, I think our strategy is with this GBA initiative, we want to leverage on that.
Speaker: We want to leverage on our existing presence and experience distributing funds outside China and also on certain regime program at the same time to help us to position ourselves for the longer term, really onshore, onshore business being in China and then being able to service the investors in China, including particularly with and first start with the GBA region.
Speaker: Thank you, Amy.
Speaker: Can I turn the question to Daniel then?
Speaker: Definitely actually showed us a lot of the different plan in multiple channels, a track about the investors demand and so.
Speaker: Definitely GBA is a core part of the HSBC's growth plan as well.
Speaker: What is our bank strategy in terms of the GBA side?
Speaker: I would say when we talk about GBA, obviously one of the key words that we would hear a lot is connect.
Speaker: We definitely would cover wealth connect and then insurance connect and all that connect.
Speaker: And I think HSBC's all along our string is the international connectivity.
Speaker: And that actually would reflect very strongly in our focus in this area.
Speaker: But we're not just globally connected.
Speaker: We also actually, Hong Kong is a home market and Hong Kong is part of the GBA.
Speaker: So we actually also have a lot of local insight in the GBA area.
Speaker: Hong Kong aside, just talking about Guangdong PRD, we are the largest foreign bank with our presence in 21 prefecture-level cities in Guangdong, leveraging on the SIPPA scheme some years ago.
Speaker: So we've been actually building our presence and building our understanding of the place a lot.
Speaker: So our vision is actually helping these customers to have a kind of unified kind of one GBA bank concepts so they can leverage on the strength of HSBC to reach out to the international world.
Speaker: but also for the international world, including Hong Kong, to also get into the GBA area.
Speaker: So it's actually two ways.
Speaker: So in many ways, I would say it actually resembles the dual circulation that we talked about.
Speaker: So we are facilitating development in GBA, but also spanning the globe.
Speaker: When I say that, I'm actually referring both to the business and the individual.
Speaker: For business, I think in the past, we always have the thinking that Hong Kong is a trading hub, China is manufacturing the world's factory.
Speaker: But actually, this is gradually changing.
Speaker: I think the landscape in particular, like in Guangdong, a lot of the manufacturing has moved out, we know that.
Speaker: But there are a lot of new economies also emerging, some exciting startup.
Speaker: And also, like healthcare and cross-border e-commerce become the key.
Speaker: Cross-border e-commerce, for example, now account for 68% of the entire China, and it's going to reach 80% very soon.
Speaker: and it's been growing like 30% year on year.
Speaker: And together with Hong Kong, it would be a perfect solution for them to go international.
Speaker: And also riding on the growing middle class, the spending power, I think I can also see increasing interest from the rest of the world to try to sell into China, because that's capturing the opportunity of the mass affluent group.
Speaker: So that's the circulation, that's the connectivity on the business side.
Speaker: And also, I think for on the personal customer side, again, increasingly more mainland Chinese residents looking for offshore investment and insurance opportunity.
Speaker: And also, I think increasingly Hong Kong people is also interested in capturing the very high growth opportunity in the GBA area.
Speaker: So again, we see the connectivity and we are well positioned to do that.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: We've been investing in many ways, including the setting up of the GBA office and my appointment in March this year, facilitating more of the cross territory as well as cross line of business collaboration to realize this opportunity.
Speaker: We are also investing in digital and also in wealth managers and financial planners and also commercial banking relationship managers to help us realize the opportunity ahead.
Speaker: Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker: Definitely your new role is very important in terms of our overall Greater Bay Area strategy.
Speaker: So it nicely turns to our next topic because Daniel, you mentioned about the Connect, right?
Speaker: So when we talk about GBA, a lot of the recent attention also come to the upcoming Wealth Management Connect program.
Speaker: So maybe I give a very high level backdrop.
Speaker: The Wealth Management Connect program is a cross-border program, allowing banks to distribute products to the cross-border residents in the Greater Bay Area.
Speaker: Now, all the industry players now saw this as a huge opportunity.
Speaker: My question to Amy is that what is the strategy from shoulders to capture the Wealth Management Connect opportunities?
Speaker: Okay, thanks Patrick.
Speaker: GBA is one of the most affluent regions in mainland China.
Speaker: And then 20%, I think, of the, the bound, actually, in terms of high net worth investor population in GBA is constitute 20% of the total in mainland China.
Speaker: We have a new billionaire in mainland China every two days.
Speaker: It's according to the Private Wealth Management Associates survey.
Speaker: So you can imagine, I guess, the wealth growth is really there.
Speaker: Even though I think just mentioned about the launch of the large method connect regime at the initial stage, there are some restrictions, I would say guidance is each GB investors can invest only up to 1 million RMB, so they may not be considered as so-called a high net worth.
Speaker: but you can imagine that this gives the asset management, the funds industry an opportunity to provide investment management products to the GB investors, maybe more so from the retail, those 1 million, but definitely the regime we expect that will become, I guess, like we develop further that it will go beyond just the retail that into the high net worth individuals and include almost, I guess, both the retail investors as well as the more affluent assets that we can manage.
Speaker: And also, I guess, this like wealth management connect is a bank specific regime and actually is an extension of what asset managers outside mainland China can do.
Speaker: We have been distributing to mainland Chinese investors through the current regime like the QTII, the MRF across the border.
Speaker: And I think the Wealth Connect is just give us another channels, another means is through the banks in Hong Kong, that we're still able to distribute our investment products through these Hong Kong banks to the investors in the GBA region across the border.
Speaker: So without us really, I guess, I need to have the two layers of regulatory approval, additional licensing.
Speaker: So one thing because of this, then you asked about the strategy.
Speaker: So what is our strategy in capturing this Wealth Connect opportunity is, first of all, take short as an example.
Speaker: We have been in Hong Kong, this intermediary market for a long time.
Speaker: I would say partnership and collaboration in supporting the banks in Hong Kong as they developed the Wealth Connect initiative in servicing the GBA investors across the border.
Speaker: Even though initially I think there's a bit of talks about like the regime, once they're company and now it's actually you have to do it like online and offline.
Speaker: But in terms of I guess of the marketing or the subscription into the investment products provided by the banks in Hong Kong.
Speaker: It's also, I guess, an omnichannel means is if investors, they stay within the GBA region, then of course they need to have adequate information, investments market, investment product related in order for them to make an investment decision and initiate a transaction themselves, because it's primarily on execution only basis.
Speaker: But when the investors can cross the border, coming to Hong Kong and then to be receiving, I guess, the concept investment advice from the banks as well as the banks has been doing to the Hong Kong investors, then of course, then they also get the investment advice support to help them to make an investment decision.
Speaker: So for asset manager,
Speaker: is for us is we will leverage on the existing suite of funds that already onboarded the bank platform, but more focus is on about how we can help, we should support the banks in terms, I guess, of the marketing.
Speaker: I think the investor communications in order to ensure that the GB investors got the adequate information about the markets, about the products to help them to make an informed investment decision.
Speaker: And this will be an omni channel support that we have.
Speaker: So digital marketing, digital content, and at the same time is I think, branding is also very important, not only to Chinese investors, but generally to the all eight retail investors.
Speaker: So for us, our strategy is we also need to start building our brand, the brand of Shrodas within the GBA region.
Speaker: Currently we have been doing so because we have, as I mentioned earlier on, we have a joint venture already about like 20 years ago.
Speaker: And it's public news that we also like pursuing the wealth management, the WMC joint venture at the same time.
Speaker: We're also pursuing a long term really as establishment of us having a full fledged presence in mainland China to do FMC business.
Speaker: So all the branding are in place, especially we have a Wovie in Shanghai today.
Speaker: So we do have PF and the private funds business.
Speaker: So in particular, we'll focus to building brand awareness, like within the GBA region.
Speaker: This will help investors to get to know foreign asset managers' branding as they consider these investment products or services offered by the banks in Hong Kong.
Speaker: And of course, another opportunity is
Speaker: In the past, you know, like Hong Kong managers in Hong Kong, we run offshore funds at the same time, we also do onshore Hong Kong domiciled funds.
Speaker: I think the startup of this like Wealth Connect regime is really a very good space for asset managers to consider future product development.
Speaker: It's not only for the investors in Hong Kong, but also for investors across the border, but they're only distributed in Hong Kong.
Speaker: So I think this will give asset manager a chance to further develop and also supplement existing offering under the Hong Kong Domicile vehicle, be they previously Unitrust or more so that Hong Kong is talking about the OFC as well.
Speaker: So definitely, I think private development, clients referencing digital marketing, these are the main areas that we're focusing on as we continue to support the banks in pursuing this Wealth Connect regime.
Speaker: You greatly point out that actually while distribution side actually well also depending on banks and distribution as well.
Speaker: My next question to Daniel, I think that actually well HSBC has also conducted a survey for the Greater Bay Area investors regarding the response if the you know if Wealth Management Connect is set up and so on, what is their appetite and so on.
Speaker: It seems that the result is really positive.
Speaker: Can you share with us some of the angles from the result?
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: The survey was conducted in the fourth quarter 2020.
Speaker: It's an online survey for 1,600 citizens living in the nine mainland cities in the GBA area.
Speaker: They are either currently already owned or intend to take up financial products in Hong Kong in the next 12 months.
Speaker: Among the surveyed respondents, over 80% of them actually plan to invest in Hong Kong via the upcoming Wealth Management Connect, so really encouraging.
Speaker: About two-thirds of the respondents said they are optimistic about the Hong Kong market outlook and 70% intend to increase their share of assets in the territory.
Speaker: 67% of the respondents identified wealth accumulation as the key investment objective.
Speaker: following by preparing for life after retirement and also saving for their children's education.
Speaker: For those who are already invested in Hong Kong, 38% of them have funds and 37% of stocks as the most popular products.
Speaker: And a majority of the respondents, 65%, plan to diversify the investment products in Hong Kong.
Speaker: And almost everyone who is aware of the concept of fintech and ESG finds it very appealing.
Speaker: So I think actually, it seems that many people are already closely watching for the development and anticipating the opportunity that they can get from this Wealth Management Connect.
Speaker: Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker: So the result is very promising.
Speaker: And then you also hinted about some of the, you know, hot topics on or demand on the ESG and so on and so forth.
Speaker: Maybe I turn the question to Amy.
Speaker: Amy, you really point out that
Speaker: For Shrodas, you have multiple strategies, you have multiple channels now, you have your own movies onshore.
Speaker: For the distribution, you have participated in the mutual recognition of funds previously, you have your own joint venture in China providing QTII products to the investors and so on and so forth.
Speaker: Now you have the FMCs planning to set up, you also have the WMC joint venture as well in China.
Speaker: So with all these channels, how can you see about the wealth management content channels compared with different channels and so on?
Speaker: Okay, so good question, Patrick.
Speaker: I think I would say positive, very positive.
Speaker: If you compare, I think this like Wealth Connect regime, even though it's a bank specific regime, as I've said, we don't need additional regulatory approval to the products.
Speaker: As long as the banks carry the funds, they can primarily carry the same set of funds, because it may be a smaller set for the GBA investors.
Speaker: and we don't need license, special license, we don't need additional license for these funds to reach out to the end investors in the GBA region.
Speaker: There are definitely better flexibility.
Speaker: I think Patrick, you know very well, for example, the MRF, the more recently rolled out regime is, well, even though it's still SFC authorized Hong Kong domiciled funds, but there are some additional requirements, for example, it must be managed by the managers in Hong Kong,
Speaker: So in a way, there's no subdelegation allowed.
Speaker: To some extent, it constrains the product design.
Speaker: It could be more Asian-focused or Hong Kong-China market-focused.
Speaker: So because rarely we have a global equity team, for example, sitting in Hong Kong for the foreign manager.
Speaker: So I think under these Wealth Connect, actually subdelegation is possible, is feasible.
Speaker: And then another part is, okay, because of the concentration, previously under the MRF, the Northbound Fund Regime, you know, the funds distributed in mainland China under MRF, we can raise only up to 50% of the funds AUM from China.
Speaker: Then this time under this Wealth Connect Regime, there's no such, I guess, 50% TAP requirement as well.
Speaker: So all good is in terms of the flexibility.
Speaker: I think this gives the Chinese investors, even though to start within the GBA region, an access to a broader suite of funds authorized by the Hong Kong SFC and Hong Kong Domicile.
Speaker: So this will give investors choice, more option, and also for the banks and then how we support the banks and for the banks in Hong Kong to start really, I guess, servicing investors, not only Domicile in Hong Kong.
Speaker: but also I guess in the GBA region.
Speaker: This goes back to what Daniel mentioned earlier, it's really about connectivity.
Speaker: That Hong Kong and mainland China, I think GBA being the closest proximity region, with the increased connectivity, I think there'll be a lot more cross-border activity.
Speaker: To both Daniel and Amy, so Daniel first, regarding the readiness, actually how ready are we actually as a bank?
Speaker: we've been preparing for it for months and actually probably more than a year as we gradually, I mean a lot of those detailed guidelines gradually unfold and with more clarity on the 6th of May when the consultation came out and pleasantly surprised with the with the southbound remote account onboarding because I think previously they did say some of those
Speaker: officials or regulators did say that we probably need to wait until the border opens.
Speaker: So that is actually a positive sign from a Southbound point of view.
Speaker: I think we've been investing quite a lot in multiple areas, including system and processes, because I think there are also different control points because I think the scheme is developed in such a way that is closed loop.
Speaker: So you can't freely move the money.
Speaker: I think it's a very cautious step because I think this is going to really to the retail world, not just on the institution side.
Speaker: So I think
Speaker: I can see the reason why the regulator want to be a bit more cautious in fund choice and for South Bank also the eligibility of the individual who can participate in this scheme including the consideration of where they are, whether they are in Guangdong area and also whether
Speaker: they have the investment experience and their wealth accumulation as well.
Speaker: So there are multiple things that involve some processes and systems, which we're getting ready for it when it's coming to launch in the very near future.
Speaker: Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker: And Amy, from the asset management side, how ready are you for the launching of the program?
Speaker: Yeah, definitely I joined Daniel to say we are ready.
Speaker: The banks are ready as the managers are ready because for us is as I've said, we don't need additional approval or licensing, but we spend a lot of time working with the banks in identifying which are the funds suitable to support the launch of this regime.
Speaker: I think earlier on, I may not have mentioned that it's not only SFC authorized or SFC domicile.
Speaker: We also have to actually, it's a subset because it has to be low to medium risk to start.
Speaker: So I think we just need to find out which are the funds suitable for the banks to start this regime.
Speaker: And of course, we have to make sure that, naturally, we expect that when the regime roll out, when we need to do not product solicitation, it's primary education, like investor sharing session.
Speaker: Naturally, I think Cantonese is not good enough.
Speaker: we have to make sure that our staff, they can spin actually fluent Mandarin so that we'll be able to communicate more friendly and efficiently for the banks to communicate with the GBA investors.
Speaker: And of course, in terms of marketing materials, of course, like we have to make sure that we've simplified Chinese version available.
Speaker: So I would say that for the regime to start, we're ready.
Speaker: But I will also add that the readiness has to evolve because we expect the regime to roll out is really on the incremental approach.
Speaker: So I think from Daniel's perspective, actually from the bank on the distribution side, the distribution means actually in China is evolving substantially.
Speaker: PUSD actually heavily relying on the bank distributions.
Speaker: Then actually a lot of the demand go to, you know, platform, electronic platforms on the distributions and so on and so forth.
Speaker: From HSBC perspective, actually have we coped with the involvement on, you know, distributing products per se.
Speaker: Yeah, well, I think in the modern world, I think there's a word that is getting more and more popular.
Speaker: It's called agile, right?
Speaker: You have to be very agile in, as Amy said, go along with the regulatory regime.
Speaker: It's opening up gradually in different components, but not all at once.
Speaker: Like we start with like the low and medium risk in the product angle.
Speaker: But also, I think we do emphasize that at some point it will be completely digital from onboarding all the way to buying and selling investment products.
Speaker: But right now, what we see is the onboarding journey still need to, I mean, account openings still need to happen, part of that at a branch.
Speaker: I think part of that is also related to the KYC requirement, and part of that is also related to the eligibility check, which is not something that you can quickly automate within a short period of time.
Speaker: So I think that is still something, there's some touch point at the branch.
Speaker: But I think we are rebuilding some of the free branch process to be very digital.
Speaker: And once the account is open, actually everything can be done online.
Speaker: I think we are moving towards that.
Speaker: And I'm sure this is a journey and we'll be opening up more in terms of the digital capability.
Speaker: Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker: So Amy, you previously pointed out that, you know, the schemes allowed the
Speaker: I think selling of the product actually will, if the investor have to go to Hong Kong from the area, then definitely we can from the branch and so on, we can do direct selling, but actually well on the cross border branch perspective actually is mainly on the execution mode only.
Speaker: And so from that issue perspective, actually how do you plan to overcome this one?
Speaker: How do you work closely with the bank to,
Speaker: you know, maximize the selling opportunities on your product perspective?
Speaker: So in terms from the surfacing or the strategy perspective, it's no different, no less than what we are doing today, but more.
Speaker: So I've mentioned, I think, Daniel mentioned, I think the digital savviness of the investors or the residents in the GBA region, it could be a lot more fast, I mean, like advanced than the investors or the residents in Hong Kong.
Speaker: So I think digital content and how we work with the banks in terms of enrich and ensure that we could have a good investor communication.
Speaker: And I will rephrase that because it's not really about product selling and that's the whole intention.
Speaker: So it's really about investor communication.
Speaker: So if the GBA investors, it so happens they will be visiting Hong Kong once the border open and then they're doing the transactions with the banks in Hong Kong, I think definitely we have the in-person investment advice offered by the banks.
Speaker: And of course, our role is really to support the investment consultant, how they're introducing these products depending on the know-how sophistication level of these investors.
Speaker: So this will have to work closely with the banks.
Speaker: to see what their needs and then we accommodate and also we tailored special marketing materials and maybe I guess a three minute or 90 second clip that investors can really refer to easily from time to time.
Speaker: And also I guess in terms of the within the board, we're inside the GBA region,
Speaker: if any educational activities will be allowed.
Speaker: And of course, then we will be working closely again with the banks in sharing market views, insights about investments, not only about opportunities, but also, I guess, to remind investors about there are some potential market risk that they will be exposed to, especially when they are really looking for diversification from the current investments, which are predominantly more domestic,
Speaker: I guess from domestic Hong Kong, China into more regional and also global portfolio.
Speaker: And one thing I think I would like to add is, you know, like a manager, we are also going beyond our role as a product provider.
Speaker: We're really, I guess, going forward as a really assert a partner to the banks that become more embedded into the ecosystem.
Speaker: It's really about marketing support, investor communication, and even, I guess, portfolio advice.
Speaker: So I think all these we see is actually a chance for us to even fast forward because you know Hong Kong is a very enclosed and also very convenient efficient city.
Speaker: I think digital serviness is there, is here, but that may not be an essential need.
Speaker: But GB is a very broad region.
Speaker: There's an essential need for investors or consumers to go digital.
Speaker: Then I think this will be definitely be the area that we will focus a lot more on in providing adequate information and also insight in order to facilitate the GB investors to be able to do, I guess, investment decision, even though it's on an execution only basis.
Speaker: Thank you very much, Amy.
Speaker: Thank you very much, Daniel, for your insightful sharing about the Greater Bay Area as well as the Wealth Management Connect opportunities.
Speaker: And so I think that definitely the audience actually can pick up some of the tricks from you guys actually in order for them to plan ahead for their strategy for the Greater Bay Area.
Speaker: Thank you very much.
Speaker: This has been the Markets and Securities Services Outlook, a podcast miniseries produced especially for HSBC Global Viewpoint.
Speaker: To learn more about HSBC's Markets and Securities Services offerings, visit gbm.hsbc.com forward slash solutions forward slash securities dash services.
Speaker: Thank you for listening today.
Speaker: This has been HSBC Global Viewpoint Banking and Markets.
Speaker: For more information about anything you heard in this podcast or to learn about HSBC's global services and offerings, please visit gbm.hsbc.com.
