Episode 85 - Have I missed anything?

Transcript

Speaker: Thank you. What?

Speaker: So, have a good day, anyhow. Yeah. hello um Right, all the best to you. Oh, thanks. The little red dots. Go fucking.

Speaker: Fuckin' hell. No more horror messages now.

Speaker: Another episode. out of the High Night Podcast. We're not sure whether this is 84 or 85 because we actually did one last week and it was the best contact we've ever done. we We were laughing our heads off. It was so funny. We were so sharp.

Speaker: And then it didn't fucking record, so... er Here we are again. Um, Don't forget the balls we showed as well, Jim. The ball, oh God, yeah, yeah, that was it, yeah, so.

Speaker: Apparently people online have been asking us to grow a pair of balls. So, yeah, we've been sat here for days with our testicles in a plant pot. With some water and some seeds?

Speaker: It was like we were stood in a gold mouth at the San Siro giving the V's to the away fans whilst covering our balls.

Speaker: Yeah, well anyway, so we yeah we put the world to rights last time we're gonna have to somehow do it again um I've got a slightly different personality. A bit of a last -minute sub come in. But anyway, let's just see how it goes. um If we get this one out, it'll be an improvement on the last one because obviously that never materialised.

Speaker: But yes, we are back. Um, And we're going to chat them with me tonight. I've got Alan. Good evening, Alan. Hello? Chris? Good evening once again.

Speaker: We had Luke last time. He's not here yet, but we do also have Sean who's dropped in for a chat. So good evening, Sean, as well. Evening, lads. I'm really guilty. Peace. last week didn't see the light of day. It sounds fantastic.

Speaker: The thing is, though, of all alls four, Luke is probably the most critical. and you are fucking by far the happiest clapper of anyone either on this call or elsewhere in the world. We've got a bit of a changing balance, I'm afraid. it's a rig it's fake it's not alike It's not a like -for -like replacement, is it? I will say one thing, though. I think I'll...

Speaker: not pressing record properly. or the record button not working. Take him to the hostello. He's aching to direct our stomachs. Missing as Leicester last week.

Speaker: on the um How Wigan Athletic Is This podcast.

Speaker: Lester was just the latest in a long line of misses against various various opponents. I hope you do. Whereas I've always managed to press record successfully. Even in some of the most drunken podcasts ever committed to the internet.

Speaker: That's it. You can at least say that Costello, he trains well and he does sort of look a little bit like a footballer and runs around a bit. but But yeah, you can't say the same rules of us in terms of... putting the hard work in in the hard yards and uh But somehow we've always managed to bring it out until... ah last week's fateful episode so Yeah, let' let's crack on. I'll do the quick fire. And God help me, Sean, if you've not done your prep.

Speaker: I get all kicked straight off. So what I want to know is... If the season so far was a meal. what would it be? And I think I'll go first because I went first last time. so when I think it's like you've ordered a kind of...

Speaker: a mid -tier burger, not not a really posh one, just an average burger, you know. Brioche bun like they all are now, a bit of bacon and cheese. and skinny skin on fries or whatever yeah and then what actually comes to the table is is a plate full of tin mushrooms. That's what it feels like. it's somewhat underwhelming and not quite got the right ingredients together.

Speaker: So that's what I think it was like. What about you? I'll let you go first, Al, because you've had a week to do this. You can't remember the last time, can you? Well, no, I didn't say anything because I got it mixed up with the with the TV category, didn't that but I? I've got to it's um it's like a Yorkshire Yorkshire pork pie they have them warm So it looks right.

Speaker: or But like when you when you get to take a bite of it, nothing quite hangs together properly. And that's that's the season for that. Chris! Turned into a dribbling mess, is that it?

Speaker: Uh... A fry up. We've got all of... Sort of. a level of ingredients to make. A decent breakfast.

Speaker: But a chef's only... You can only make a good breakfast if you've got premium quality. meat products. And I think... some of our recruitment lately. as a Add us by in less than premium. quality meat products and as a result it's not the best I mean there's a place for a greasy spoon. but Sometimes you just want someone a bit better, don't you?

Speaker: It looks like a Twitter breakfast and not a good one. Yeah. yeah it's it It's one of those where the sausages have been cooked on the radiator.

Speaker: And your bacon's stoned. Still oinking. I was going to say Bowen then, but that's a completely different animal. Yeah. What have you got for us, Sean? And don't say cheese pasty or whatever you do. You're asking Sean to bring you on food, Jimmy. I don't

Speaker: we're We're about two minutes in and then we're already going for Sean's food. It's complete. It's completely. Um, Completely.

Speaker: undeserved as well but we'll we'll leave that for another day um I think it'd have to be. It's Hiccup, isn't it? It's like... It sounds a good idea. It looks good. but then it's full of regret.

Speaker: than that small moment. And... Sing. this season It's always... It's always promised to start. at some point, but we're still awaiting that start point.

Speaker: There's plenty of regret. after um how the recruitment went in the summer.

Speaker: Okey -dokey, let's talk about that. I think I was going to split the football into two parts. where We'll try and do the on -the -pitch stuff first and the off -the -pitch after. I suppose we might be slightly more positive because we're now doing this after the weekend game.

Speaker: but um For me, it still looked like... We looked like a pub team, but we managed to beat a slightly worse pub team. Even some of the defending on display would have ah Alan Hansen. But he cried. but then But yeah, I mean...

Speaker: I just... The squad's weak, it's inexperienced, we're struggling a bit. Thoughts? I don't know why I've not got all the anger. coming out to me like other people have. I am a bit resigned to it, whatever case there are, whatever happens. You know, we if they're not going to put money in, then...

Speaker: We probably can't afford to see what other league won. clubs do and again I'm already overlapping into the next bit but it's like I always think a manager like Caldwell, because he's got the... The Martinez gene, shall we call it.

Speaker: you think well It's completely new side, these young lads, in three to six months. they'll They'll hopefully improve. and and and you know let latex gel as they say and they always think well yeah we you know we we can get out of it But had we lost on Saturday, then I'd be like, fucking hell, we're up shit creek here. And we've got another game tomorrow. And and yeah, it's like...

Speaker: We've got to go. get out the bottom four first and we've got to string some results together. but The results. immediately preceding the weekend, the game, sorry, we're we're we're a damn sight harder, so... you know fingers crossed we'll see some gradual improvement and it's not where you are in October, November. It's where you are in May that matters. But anyway, how fucked are we? Over to you.

Speaker: But it did worry me on Saturday when they rolled out the yellow ball to play with because, like you know, traditionally, and and Chris knows we... play, we usually play shit with the yellow ball. So we're going to have to buckle up Trent to start with.

Speaker: Um... I really, really, this is the point, this is the only point at which I'm gutted, really gutted that that episode didn't go out because... um You asked to about Bromley things. when we did that recording and and I pointed out that Charles Darwin was from Bromley and this game was going to start the evolution of the the next phase of...

Speaker: Gary Caldwell's Wigan Athletic. and Yeah, it wasn't great. defending wasn't great book So I think some of our attacking play on on Saturday was...

Speaker: It was really good. Some of the passes, passing between their lines, obviously. Yeah. They weren't defending very well for them to beat. successful but some of the the three balls that were played from the wing play was was really good and Now you look at...

Speaker: um Miller's performance in particular. I don't think I've seen enough of him to suggest that was that was even... likely to happen. you know liny he had He had a really good game, certainly a really good game in the the opposition.

Speaker: half and and i think You know. More. Green Shoots, The Nun. then... bad things to focus on. i mean i That would be my type for me. Thank you, Stuart Miller, because I believe... and Sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker: Miller, did he? Did he replace Mellish effectively? And I think I was saying last week about Mellish, he must be like the Ramesh Ranganathan of the Latin Express. He must be brilliant in training, turn up on time, always there, you know, good old reliable. but It's just...

Speaker: Everyone's just sick of him already, aren't they, really? Barstow, Jimmy told me and Chris that. He said, like, you know... he gets all the gigs because he's a model comedian he turns up on time he's reliable he does whatever you want whereas some of them are just like raging piss pots who can't be relied upon it's probably not less less now than they were what at once for a time But it's like, yeah yeah, there's always this thing. There's always these players who are brilliant in training. You know, we talk about the forwards, like somebody like Mark Hansel in 14, he was one of them.

Speaker: Coyle and Rosler picked him for like 40 -odd games and he scored one goal. and you know we have 20 years Ta -ra. When managers say, oh, we're scoring loads of goals in training, I always think, yeah, but you're playing against our defence. Not even a player against Ardy Bensley but the metal figures they have.

Speaker: Exactly. It's not exactly a yardstick. Oh, we score loads in training. Well, yeah, and we know how we defend, so it's no surprise, is it? Yeah, I think. That's it. to some extent, but...

Speaker: the the criticism of the defense is

Speaker: I'm not going to, unfair seems a bit. and too kind I think because yeah obviously there are some really shit moments in there that make some really bad Mistakes.

Speaker: But when they're defending as a team, they seem to do it. do all right it's like defend the box they do that bit all right it's on those occasions when when they break through that that problems and shit you know not nobody really committing to defending crosses and things like that.

Speaker: it It's just dastard. Like all things, there's been... course yeah There's been examples. Sorry, Chris. There's been examples this year where we've defended really well. Like Sheffield Wednesday away.

Speaker: where we should have won Reading at home. Um... they've got it They've got it in their ability to do it. It's just... I think a lot of this season is just consistency and we are so inconsistent.

Speaker: to the point we're bordering on being woeful. Um, Hey. Okay. It's always the case with those. but with those younger squads. um, I think Caldwell benefited when he came in last year.

Speaker: Because... The. the the loan signings that we had. weren't like the ones we've got this year essentially they're academy lads aren't they It's good. careers as they may have.

Speaker: From our experience in the Premier League, when we were getting similar sorts of players. from Premier League academies. It takes them a long time to... to settle in. And there's an argument recruitment -wise, was that the right thing to spend our meagre...

Speaker: um Fun song. like people have said about Stevenage and how well they're doing. Cool. I've not particularly looked at Stevenage's squad apart from Josh McGannis, but I imagine they've got...

Speaker: a ton of seasoned League One pros, they might not be very good. They might not. have the ability to play high. You know, they're never going to sell them at a profit, that are they? I don't know, we're not going to, you know, go the three...

Speaker: main loanees we're not going to benefit from um Them developing either but you know with We've got... So, as you know. Burns at the back.

Speaker: Yep. Archie Harris, people like that. We've signed clearly with an idea that they'll be here for two, three years and then we'll make some money on them. Even...

Speaker: Yeah. Even Blue can't receive. We've not seen him since. When was it? August, early September because of injury. He's another one that they've signed on loan from Fulham, but it's with a view to a permanent.

Speaker: So there's clearly... method behind the madness. But... I think there's been so many missteps at the start of the season. There's just... It's been like... a it's been like a of rolling down the hill effects. Started off at Barnsley, should have won 7 -1. lost on penalties.

Speaker: And it's carried on in that phase. There's so many. Examples were... We. should have won games. We haven't. That knocks confidence. And then...

Speaker: you get into the situation where they're playing against Bromley and they're absolutely terrified about it. giving the goal away. Because... that confidence is so fragile. I think a couple more wins over the next couple of weeks could...

Speaker: Hopefully. See you. see a turn in terms of in terms of the side's confidence and how he copes with... defensive situations like Like the aforementioned Bromley.

Speaker: He's had a bit of stick, hasn't he, for likete changing the side. But I think when you're losing, you have to. And also, there's players coming in in and out of injury. But I think... Up front, we seem to be better now because we've got Sadie. And maybe Higgins will play a bigger part again soon. And he started to drop those other two dolts who were just like, yeah.

Speaker: No, they they may come good. I hope they do. but With each game, it looks less likely. But then... we've start we started scoring a bit more. But then suddenly the defence gone to shit in the past week or two. and I did think. It probably won't go down well in some quarters, but even like, say, the... If Caldwell is similar to Maloney, like Maloney used to get awful shit for all these nil -nil draws at home. And I'd be like, we probably need a bit of that now. If we can tighten the back up first.

Speaker: and then start nicking goals. But like. Suddenly we're leaking a lot more goals, even though it's essentially the same. defense he just doesn't seem to be able to get a good Settled. unit of 10 to halves and then the wing backs change as well so I'm like Yeah, we we seem to.

Speaker: need to score two goals to win a game and we're struggling to score one a lot of the time. But is that the balance of if you attack a bit more, you open yourselves up a bit, so therefore you're more likely to concede? because we're opening up.

Speaker: We're sitting at home and away. We're sitting back away, but at home he's going for it and we're getting a better results. Yeah, I mean, some of the goals we conceded haven't necessarily been on the break, have they? we've not conceded too much when we've been exposed like that it's been stupid stuff like a corner or a free kick, like the one at weekend.

Speaker: Two of them walk for the same ball. And all of a sudden it drops to the centre half. in acres of space in the in the six hour box. Oh. But generally... I don't think we played too bad.

Speaker: Overall, we played decent in in those games against. Those. better teams higher up the league. Huddersfield, Chef Wednesday was another one away where were we played really well and were looking out to win the game.

Speaker: and What seemed to be missing there was the goals. but We dug in. or whether it's a tactical thing where he's thinking, well, particularly away from home. We dig into half -time and then we open, let the shackles off and have a bit of a go in the second half if we can.

Speaker: and get in front I don't know. Shaw mentioned the word consistency earlier. on a thing. there's a consistency in how we play. Like you say. team selection. I've been the same. Same players available.

Speaker: consistently and having them were the building the relationships were the left pocket. to that Left -sided center half are the same over and over and over, so you get used to playing with each other. Some of that as well is the...

Speaker: Because you sort of expect young players to get rotated as well because, you know, they're finding... Yeah. And... I'm You know, you look at it. there there's been inconsistency with the egg.

Speaker: experience lads so you know when you know. whether it's power being out, Fox being in and out, whether... Babe. the experience in the team.

Speaker: has been performing in the way that you'd want it to as well you know you look at say That'll only take Carragher. Malish Fox. Power.

Speaker: Hogan. So that would probably give him... five most experienced lads off the top of my head. um They've not. they've not really looked great shakes any stage this season And I think that that's probably where.

Speaker: just a bit more consistency, those those people holding the the side together a bit more so the young lads can... perhaps have the freedom. you know perhaps be able to make the odd mistake but still have people backing them up and covering it i think that that's That's where we could get.

Speaker: a bit more out of people. And it'd be interesting to see. I always know. that old but um Trevitt Same. to be one who you know can can influence a game and sort of...

Speaker: give a bit of experience to other people and it was good to see him back on the bench. Amen. Saturday, not't I don't know, far off. He actually is from from playing, but it's good to see him back about. Thank you.

Speaker: you've got You've got power and wear and power. People talk about his quality as a footballer, but that game against Leicester he didn't play. That was when they really did sort of like. maybe down twos a little. And I don't think he'd let them do that, regardless of, you know, how good he is a player, where they should be. That's his role. He will always keep people motivated. And then alongside him, you've got, like, Jenson Weir, who, again, is a bit up and down. He's a big lad, you know. he He's not really a physical midfielder.

Speaker: Not really sure what he is in midfield. He's not a bad player overall, but... It's like in some of these games, there just needs to be a... A proper leader and a proper shithouse. And lots of Sam Moore, because I know you lads don't like him, but what?

Speaker: Where is the sensor after? Oh. Yeah, like your dad. But yeah, I mean, it's like, somebody like Tom Naylor, if not more, is somebody to... hit shit out of people would help but it seems to be an absence that we've had whenever we have these ball playing sides we don't seem to have somebody to play that mould and this is why somehow we get bullied every game yet we all seem to pick up a load a load of cards.

Speaker: of the worst discipline. record in the league even though it's soft as shit because Because we are soft as shit and we don't battle back. on and kind of like We don't know how to play in a clever way. that So we just pick up all the soft cars all the time.

Speaker: for team doing silly fogs but um Just an experience, isn't it, really? Oh. you know. i guess thank you

Speaker: Thank you. I think, like I say, that lack that lack of experience. does tell because it gets you through games. Um. Look at somebody like Michael Brown. um I will imagine.

Speaker: mention him because of I'm because of his work on the Bruce Wiggles body. He was that. That kind of foil for a more creative play when they are... I'll see you on other side.

Speaker: And... I don't think we've got that file at the minute. you've you've got. You've got a lot of young creative lads in there. Oh. They're just that that the creators. It's like...

Speaker: It's like having a team full of Jordi Gomez's, as much as we'd all love that. You do need somebody who can... You can. stick the boot in as well. I wish we'd love a team full of Jordi Gomez's.

Speaker: Yeah. You've always got to have a shit house in the street.

Speaker: Life life is all and football is all about balance. You need to shut yourself in midfield. Absolutely, yeah. Oh, that's hopefully on the shopping list if we can afford one. and Let's keep it moving anyway. If we're done on that bit, let's... um wait let's have another a quick fire let's switch it to tell you i want to know what we're all watching on telly just to give me some box set ideas really so um Christian, I know my good value. Go on.

Speaker: Whatever you want. or Something called Furious. i think i I never know what they're on these days because they're all obviously through the doggy fire stick. I don't pay attention to what the original were original streaming service is that they're on. They're all on the streaming service apps that are on your fire stick, Chris, just to clarify. Yes, that's right. that's right yeah I think here it's really good very dark touches of Epstein about it stephen Stephen King.

Speaker: uh thing carry It was a film, wasn't it? Stephen King film. He turned that into a series. That was alright. Um,

Speaker: What was the other one? I've got loads of stuff on my list to watch that I don't know get around to watching. Slow horses is one. There's been six seasons of that now, apparently. where no sea for being Yeah, that's... that's That's on my list as well, Chris, yeah. A couple of lads at work rave about you, but I've never got around to watching it. That'd be to like top of mind at the minute. Already waiting for Series 7.

Speaker: Yeah. um ah car at the Carrack Manor, you know, it's... just dark enough in terms of the humour in it. Cheers. Joss. spy thriller enough to to... keep you going and yeah. You can tell by the cash list it's going to be well acted. I'll suggest it. Talk of leading like Jack Lowden is the new Bond, isn't it?

Speaker: Oh. I suggested it once. Interestingly, it took some poison at the end of it. Sorry, and's no... No spoilers, but he may or may not be featuring in the next series of spoilers. They've left that open.

Speaker: I suggested slosses to the missus once and she went... But will I have to concentrate while it's on? No. When she realised it was a spy thing. Emma watches it and she spends half her time on...

Speaker: Thanks for coming on. Pinterest or whatever. but I'll be getting a watch soon then. Yeah, he did give up after season four or something, season three or season four.

Speaker: so um'm I'm not quite getting this. Those familiar words, but I enjoyed it. Sorry, Chris, you have more? No, the only other one that's just appeared is one called Nocturne, with Stephen Graham playing a serial killer.

Speaker: The first two episodes have appeared and then there's another episode a week. for the next eight weeks or something that looks quite good. I think that's on Apple TV. Amen. Leave. Is it Lee Schroeder?

Speaker: also in it. Yeah. That's awesome. That's what I'm gonna watch next once it'll probably be Christmas when I'm off work, and I think you are because My attention span's gone to be where you want to be now. I can't do that anymore ah The other one that we we' just started whilst i started watching, it's about five episodes in, is War. and so Sky. Right.

Speaker: which is a About a black girl found divorced. Yeah. And what's the face? You'd be right to do the law. See you in a minute. this.

Speaker: Which is, yeah, it's all right. Yeah. Go on, Sean. I'll let you go. You've got five years. You're alright. I watched something on Sky Atlanta the other week. is He's quite old. I think it's about five or six years old, called Looming Tower.

Speaker: Um, Curious subject matter. It's about 9 -11. But it's about the um the battle between... FBI and CIA in the States and the the like power battle but essentially led to many, many, many intelligence fuck -ups.

Speaker: that led on to 9 -11. Um, So... that was That was good. It's like a 10 -part series. It's very American. If you don't believe it was an inside job.

Speaker: No comment. um but yeah it was ah that that was that was A decent watch. No spoilers. That's fine. essentially Wild owls, wild owls. Plenty of spy stuff.

Speaker: Um, Not really. um Not really TV -wise, but There's plenty of there's plenty of good. um Bond continuation novels out at the minute. People are looking for a spy.

Speaker: spy series. Charlie Higson's new Bond book is out. Um, Peace. kind of crafted a career for himself. outside of the FAF show and comedics.

Speaker: he's been writing. on continuation novels for a long time. Um, and there's plenty more that the and Ian Fleming estate have released. Before I go mad this year. I think in...

Speaker: in lieu of the bond films being out they've released about six or seven different books from different parts of the Bond universe. So if anybody who likes reading spy stuff and... Classic 50s stories. but they're worth a look.

Speaker: um But yeah. Because... Because I work in telly, it's a bit of a busman's holiday, so when I come home, the last thing I do at the end is put the TV on. I was going to pick up the BBC as well. I was going to say, like... I finished. Blue lights. I've enjoyed every series. that It's just like the...

Speaker: the politics and just the fact that I was in Belfast to work a few months ago and... Unlike Dublin, it looks just like... England or the the rest of the UK. Yeah. yeah but But yeah, if your neighbour or the next... A few streets down.

Speaker: Keep it completely. fall out because you were different religion. And not even a different religion, a different strain of the same religion. it's just vomental all that stuff. and then But it's it's always really good telly, I think, and the characters. And we've also gone in on the City's Hours again, Series 2, which is...

Speaker: I must admit, it's all right. We're only halfway through Series 2 yet, but it's... My mission just goes on about the Scouse Act and some of them ah are alright, some of them are terrible. and actually some of the ones who are actually scouted the accidents.

Speaker: are ridiculous in this series and the ones one's putting it on are better. But we'll see where that goes. But some good stuff. It's just that good time here and then. Like I said before that, Chris, think I think we were curious. I can't remember the one before that. I was thinking we watched something called American Rust, which was all right, but... um And yes, there was plenty in, but probably not. Series two, perhaps not the kind some of our listeners were hoping for.

Speaker: I've just... written Go on, who's that?

Speaker: I've just remembered. well watched. i think get again i think it was an apple one ah sat in a Sh - small town slash island off the Northeastern American.

Speaker: coast you know one of these sort of like should be a holiday island That's it. essentially the the islands haunted. That's basically what it comes down to, no doubt. not that I've not done a good sell on it. I can't remember the name, but if you george stick stick that in chat, GTP, and it'll...

Speaker: It'll tell you what it is. It's worth watching. Is it the one where the mayor's trying to get people to go and visit? Absolutely. We watched the first two episodes of that and i't watch and haven't watched any more. I want to get back and watch it again. I can't remember what it was called.

Speaker: Is it Jaws? it's a bit It's a bit like Jaws. The place is a bit like... It's exactly the same sort of thing, isn't it? Martha's Harbour type places yeah yeah yeah and I want to call it Castle Rock but it's not and I know um the reason i want to call it castle rock is because i picked it up off a recommendation from stephen king So he was like...

Speaker: right it's the right sort of you know side of horror type thing we yeah say and good a go so Because when we started, we only did one series. It was called like...

Speaker: It was set in Cape Cod, can't remember the name of it, but it was just full of drugs and all this bloody... I don't know. why LGBT. parties it was like bloody I don't know, it we just but it was the drugs and that we couldn't tell the dialogue. The missus sacked it off after one thing, but ironically, Neil Myers went there for a week to watch the World Cup. Didn't stop in Boston or anywhere manly.

Speaker: you just stayed in this the campus of Northern America and needless to say, loved every single minute of it. it's that That is well up Neil's stream. and there was ah There was an image during the World Cup.

Speaker: That's fun. American um I don't know what would What should we say? students who were all dressed in their um the finery. And I just thought, Neil, he'd absolutely love it there. It's campus Christmas.

Speaker: people Just going back to your thing Jimmy me when you were saying And yes, there was. We watched. something on the ITV called adultery her yeah there is a Bit of a giveaway that, isn't it really? Yeah, yeah. i and Well, on that bombshell, let's have a quick break. Have you got a tune for us, Al, or are we winging it?

Speaker: i'll stick with the same songs just because i've not had a chance to think about anything else and Whilst... the The mood may have slightly changed around the camp. and i'm I'm sure there's people that are still dissatisfied so we're still going to go with the smiths and please please please let me get what i want good time Love is stuff.

Speaker: See the look I've had can make a good man Turn back.

Speaker: So... Please. Please.

Speaker: Let me...

Speaker: Get what I want this time

Speaker: Haven't had a dream. in a long time

Speaker: See the life I've had. I can make a good man Bye.

Speaker: So... For once in my life Let me Get what I want Lord. No.

Speaker: It would be the first time

Speaker: Lord. it would be the first time

Speaker: Right, thank you. We are back in the room and... then Yeah, we would Huh. It's Halloween! Or rather, it was Halloween when we first recorded this. Several days before it.

Speaker: So in the next quickfire, I want to know what's the scariest you've ever been at a Latics game or a football match? and It can be. obvious stuff or something a little bit more obscure. and Go on, I'll go first while I've got it ready.

Speaker: and Millwall -Otter, Winscreen Shields, playing for Wiganburg at the time. football clubbing. Sunday Club. Full of Essex fans. and Good bunch of lads, but... not really fighters. and Just kind of, you know.

Speaker: decent lads likes pint and we got a 16 seater minibus somebody drove it we came out of Wembley Way. in the minibus after we'd scored that, Paul Rodgers scored that late winner. just as approximately 30 ,000 Millwall fans crossed the road and all the rest of the lads, you know, they weren't really designing, they all had lactic stops on. And I just thought we were dead that day. Just the glares we got. And and another one also involves Millwall. when um cup semi -final where you know It was Wembley.

Speaker: the the You normally drink on the north side of Wembley if you're a northern club and you have these designated pubs, but again... um Neil had a better idea, which was to drink in near Marleybone in a pub called The Temperance.

Speaker: And it was fine stuff. We were there at 11 o 'clock. There was only us in. Um, nice nice quiet drink catching up with old friends and that and then Within the space of half an hour, something like 300 to 500 Millwall fans turned up and like...

Speaker: 16 to 60. full of light. Scars all over the faces and all body parts hanging off and all the usual stereotyping. Honestly, we just... um We didn't speak a word for about two hours. It was kind of one of those. We didn't want to leave because since we leave, we thought they were going to fill us in. but, like, staying was just making the conversation very awkward, and even... When we went for a piss, we were going to the

Speaker: the toilets in twos and like Just nodding to each other. ah not like They knew who we were and we obviously knew what they were like. and a I'm just grateful he didn't kill us. I suspect if he'd gone back after the game, we I wouldn't be here to recall this podcast. But that was another one of Neil's bright ideas, that. The rink where all the Millwall fans are going.

Speaker: we had We had a similar experience on semi -final day. And he was definitely there. The. the the most scared I've been. Ahead or after.

Speaker: after a match. Um, We were. We were staying in London. um We've got the... Got the tube. um from Wait, wait, wait. Um, from like...

Speaker: Down close to the city. So we would. we were amongst them and went up to... and I think Hans did. Sweet word. for some reason meeting somebody in a pub to pick up tickets and we got in this pub and it had been completely taken over by our cousins from Bermondsey.

Speaker: um but like a certain subsection of Millwall, so the treatment group. Um, who, um, they'd um They'd gone ahead and got all the surgical masks out long before.

Speaker: One before Covid was a thing. ah Maybe the government's PPE line should have gone to them. Um... Yeah. That was ah that was intriguing. It's like me, the missus, the old man and a couple of the other lads that we were down with were waltzing to this pub like, do you want a pint? No, not really. i i'd like to leave at this point.

Speaker: Um, thought they would. It was fine. They were just a bit excited. Oh. but they were less excited after the match. And in fairness to them, they were all there still with the masks on their heads.

Speaker: Um, so after full -time and they were drinking alongside us outside of Wembley. so Um, Yeah. Their enthusiasm had been dulled somewhat by Jordi Gomez and Colin McManaman and Sean Maloney. and so ah just I just got one more tale from that day, actually, which is a bit like...

Speaker: where we we kind of potentially got one back because after the game... they were They were coming out and they were just hitting random wiggins, a lot of their fans. Apart from one who's a tall gentleman from Springfield who um whose name I'm not going to mention. but for both the semi and the final. It can only be described as... being dressed as being blacked up with an Arona Kone shirt on, but being quite a big Andy ladder. We saw him outside.

Speaker: still in Arunacone. Attire. and dress. Swinging round about four -mil wall fans, they must have thought, who's this bloody lunatic? yeah Anyway, Chris, Al, what have you got?

Speaker: um Millwall semi -final, number one, came out of there and gone. Chew back into London, I think. Stuart McCorney. who should not be mentioned, was on our train back in into London after that.

Speaker: and he He didn't look... An helmet with speed and a train carriage full of them. well um He'd have been scurrified about all of him. Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker: um the other one i think What? We went to... Birmingham away I think it was the first season in the Premier League It was when I walked into a pub and it was like out of a... but a western.

Speaker: everything went silent the piano stopped playing and everybody turned around and they oh i got for's sake i just think it I think it's the shortest amount of time I've ever been in a pub we made We made a quick exit.

Speaker: um Treff United, the day, the last day of the season when we stayed up. I think because of all the stuff surrounding that game, despite the fact that like they didn't really generally have any beef with us.

Speaker: It was all the West Ham stuff. I just remember coming out of Bromwell Lane and... Trying to get back to the station and it it absolutely pissing it down it was hammering it down and there was just running battles everywhere people like pulling up money for sale signs out of people's gardens and twats and people with them and stuff like that. That that was a bit.

Speaker: hairish shall we say. I felt the image of the Premier League that we were led to let's to believe in us. these Northern Milltown shows. Wow.

Speaker: but

Speaker: i I think I preferred it and when Chris said then the moment Caldwell stepped up to take the first penalty against us. think We have lost so many good lines from last time. Well, there we go. I've just got Luke in the physic roundabout, by the way.

Speaker: Hi there, my name's back to days as a sort of youngish teenager. and going going to away games and The... Port Vale walked into the stand at the side at Port Vale.

Speaker: and um It's one of those grounds where there was like a paddock at the front of the stand. I'm very quickly transpired that the paddock at the front weren't Latix fans stood up it was Port Vale fans so we had Port Vale fans at the front of us Port Vale fans at the side of us And it felt like. They didn't watch a single moment of the 90 minutes and just spent it all hurling abuse and... and bits and pieces out.

Speaker: that's That was probably it. my moment. But there's also, I think, one which is now Probably. I look back on it. you know bit. Bye. more warmly than i did at the time like which was sort of like coming off Springfield Park as a young kid. Now you saw a lot.

Speaker: but I walk over with me. The only call we get. off the ground into that bit between the wall and the... The terracing. It's dark because you're out to the floodlights and then you've got to squeeze through that little gate with...

Speaker: you know all tens of other people at the same time And it was always sort of like, it felt like, am I going to get to the other side and meet me on Colby there? Yeah. Yeah. book. Yeah, it's it's one of them things now.

Speaker: miss You miss coming off Springfield. But I do miss coming off Sprint for the apartment.

Speaker: Right. We don't. no but Nobody's going to prompt me on Hull this time. Oh, sorry. Yeah. i value but and um i believe you've got a story about all the way that you were you you should be telling us jim Well, again, I've got to be careful what I say here because I don't want to be like... a So discriminatory for them.

Speaker: but Yeah, it was like. I think it was one of Steve Bruce's first games. Amir Zaki got hat -picked. 5 -1, I think it was, away at Hull. And it's just gone down into legend basically because. me and rob oldcroft i think one of us had driven there we were on one of the car parks and We were coming off and we were coming off with all the Hull fans. They all had the bloody orange shirts on and everything. But listen.

Speaker: This one bloke in front of us in a wheelchair and... suddenly started viewing in front of me and robin the next minute he was Kind of like run over my feet in his wheelchair. And he was just deaf and blind. He looked like Chubby Brown. He had a hat full of pin badges. Bye. Big fat fella with glasses and... them

Speaker: You'd best have a square up to me which... Probably isn't the easiest thing to do considering he was sat down. um And he just kept saying, you're going to get fucking bashed in the car park here. All the locals will pit you off. You've got Armani jeans and Burberry on and stuff like that. and Nothing happened, really. but it Apart from it putting the fear of God into me. but he not threaten Did he not threaten to maul you like a tiger or whatever whatever it is? that the internet's obsessed with these days.

Speaker: No, no, no, he was old school, but... Clearly, you're in the Premier League and it's not like... I've been to Boothbury Park and that was a rough trot at times. And Hull generally were ruffians, but...

Speaker: They'd obviously been a bit sanitised on this occasion, but this one gentleman... ah He took Umbridge with the unfavourable result and we're trying to get some people to take it out on me and Rob. Well, not even Rob, just me. which is I could take personally, if I'm honest.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. Happy days or not, because we still won't find one. But Jesus Christ, what do you do in a situation like that? I don't i don't know. Could hardly hit him back, would I? That would get me in trouble.

Speaker: He let his tyre down. Yes. Yes. Thank God, nearly. Could have hurt my foot if he'd gone over them in his Pirellis or whatever they were. whatever earth No.

Speaker: Those were the days anyway, not worry about playing them for a bit. And half our academy team plays from now. Anyway. Um... Another quick fire. It's the FA Cup suit.

Speaker: which is a great competition. But who remembers Ian's FA Cup competition, which was shite? And... The quickfire question is, what's another equally shit competition that you can think of? that goes on forever and is...

Speaker: equally pointless. Incidentally, Luke came back with cricket last time, which was quite good. take point even if you didn't know yeah we're just going to pretend that didn't happen though yeah ah just just to clarify Ian's ah f FA Cup competition is still going He runs it at the cricket club. no charges people for the privilege of it.

Speaker: Did they get a prize? Yes, you get a prize, Sean. i yeah this will please this will please you no end Sean I won 90 quid on it last year Oh, scandalous.

Speaker: The other words were that one. see Huh? Can I just change what I said? It wasn't Ian's competition. It was mine. And I want to i want to share your winnings because technically you wouldn't have won if it wasn't for me.

Speaker: i mean um my My only inspiration for this one is like... For some reason. Amongst some of the pathetic casualty, we've started playing one of these GeoGuessr -type games called MapTag or something. and You just get a blank globe and it comes up in place and you've got a place.

Speaker: your finger on the map to say where it is and it's just it's already like falling into recriminations full of skullduggery and suggestions of cheating and stuff like that and but As everything always does with us, but it's just like...

Speaker: just five minutes pissing about every day trying to find out where you are in the world and I'm all right on that. ah but Unless you get Africa or China. Yeah, China's massive. Russia is, to be fair. South America I struggle with unless it's Argentina, Brazil or Chile.

Speaker: All the other companies, I haven't got a fucking clue whether yet. It's when you get completely the wrong continent. Or today, there was one there was one that was a place in the state of Washington. And half of them chose Washington, DC, which is quite amusing. There we go. It's completely pointless, but it's the way we pass our time. so I don't know what's yours, Aaron.

Speaker: Um, Mine's like power games. It's like the... I don't know if other people's families are like this, but sort of like the... the in -laws instead. Damn.

Speaker: seem to sort of treat parlour games as a ah form of... organised bullying for the uninitiated you walk in and they're sort of like playing games like I passed these scissors crossed.

Speaker: right and you're supposed to work out what the secret code is and everybody knows what's going on apart from you and everybody's laughing at you. and They keep going on. and on and on with it until and ah until he'd stand up and walk off, basically. He'd keep going on it forever. But, yeah, it was parlour games for me.

Speaker: I've never heard that one, but it does sound shit, to be fair. help Poor Chris. ah Well, I think the other night I said... strictly but seeing as Sean's here, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. You're a allowed to say it. I tend to agree with you. it's so It's very long at this time of year.

Speaker: Yeah. Like three block cards, it's all forever. Yeah, I think you said, Alan, it's not only that it goes on for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. It's like four hours, everybody, Saturday night. Yeah, they need to get... you They need to get and a match of the day version of it sorted.

Speaker: sure if you you've got any influence They do on iPlayer, you can just watch the dances of all the shite talking in between. What? Yeah, but do I have to press play about 17 times or do they just show it? No, just press play first.

Speaker: play press play on the first one and they just load. All right. on Yeah. Proud not out at weekend because we were out Saturday night. Because I came over to Lattic Saturday and they were going out for tea with my dad, so we didn't get back till late, so she didn't watch it Saturday night. she We skimped through what I could do on Sunday.

Speaker: It's a definite moot point. would he as well strict Strictly all cricket. Yeah. It's the VTs as well, Strictly, that take so long. like but The Endless.

Speaker: X Factor type. doing it for me dead man in heaven. stories which I'm sure they're lovely and they serve a purpose, but... It certainly extends that Saturday night viewing.

Speaker: And it's ironic that, you know, given given the cricket conversation and the Strictly conversation that we didn't. say the same thing because the one of One of the things that slagged off in cricket was the never -ending series of new formats, like pointing out that the reason... the hundred exists was because. the BBC wouldn't show a foot.

Speaker: T20 game because it was too long. But I think... I'm last reckoning a T20 game lasts about as long as an episode of Strictly Come Dancing. Do you know what, though? I hope they sway over that decision. Yeah, I get it. I get it like with cricket, but sometimes you can have a four to five day test. and it The last hour of play on the fifth day.

Speaker: can be absolute, like, drama, and that makes it all a worthwhile, doesn't it, really? and It even happens in country sometimes. It can be such a... It's such a nuanced game. I'm a bit of an honest, but if I did, sometimes it can be...

Speaker: it can be enthralling so Again I don't think that's fair. Never really bothered with Strictly myself. Don't know why. Just not enough hours in the day, if you'll pardon the pun. Go on, Sean, have you got something?

Speaker: The September international break. for the various tournaments that it took. Nations League friendlies. More Nations League. Um, But... I'm not as down on international football as a lot of people are. I enjoy watching England even.

Speaker: even in the depth of Windsor. Cool. Fuck. That break went on for far too long. One needs gold. when you've got League One and League Two having to shut down. Three weeks into the season for three weeks. That's just... absolutely crazy. Whoever came up with that idea needs...

Speaker: needs Stearns -Harkinsley. for want of a stronger phrase. Um, See ya. International football during the winter. But... They don't talk about the lower division clubs basically. They're like, oh yeah, we'll not give any. Consideration for the fact we've had about two all games on a Saturday and it's November. Something like that. So it's just... um And we're already playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday. and No problem.

Speaker: So six six games in three weeks. Well, so do you get Saturday, it's seven games in three weeks. and Yeah. and but You know what? Tuesday night at the Champions League, it's...

Speaker: Pack Stadium was a big event because... The big clubs and people will pay the money to watch them in that tournament. There's always other people. If you can't make it, if you're a Liverpool United fan or whatever, there's always somebody else to sell your seat to. But not just Latics, although we suffer for it more than most. Those Tuesday nights are grim.

Speaker: and i know lots of people and to be honest i've done it myself in the past where even seeing ticket holders alike. I'll just fucking watch it on telly because it's just so grim. it's just completely kill the atmosphere. It's because you've got this telly overhaul. and I don't know, Tuesday night as a kid at Springfield, it used to be quite a buzz sometimes. Some of the games...

Speaker: You know. You could do quite good under the lights, but now, whether it's just the stadium or what, but it just feels shite. And it just feels like... They've just fucked us with all these international breaks. and you know what What is it that League One clubs... have so many international players that they can't fulfil a fixture. So it in our case, we've got all like under -18s, under -90s, under -21s and all that.

Speaker: business, but it just means. Yeah. I completely agree with that, Sean. It it caught us on the hop with the fans. You know, we were going to bring it out for a game and then we found out that game wasn't even bloody happening. And I normally check that thing. before the season starts. But they've buggered about with the times, haven't they? so I got it wrong. but what We were told it wasn't going to affect us this year.

Speaker: And it did, in exactly the same way. There was absolutely zero difference. We're all to all that when the brakes are on. Yes, every single year. I should make a confession. I'm not doing Tuesday night games this season.

Speaker: mainly because If I want to get over there for a reasonable time, coming past Leeds and Manchester, I have to finish work at four and set off. And then... Coming back with M62, shortly get sent on a diversion. If I leave the minute they put my board up, they added time to try and get off my relay and get away.

Speaker: It can be midnight. I pass midnight, one in the morning when I want to get it back. it Like you say, I can touch it on the telly. point it's not only that it's the petrol and everything else and So yeah, I made that decision at the start of the season. If it's if it's like...

Speaker: In the afternoon, I'm off work already. then then I might come over. but generally if i'm at work i'm i'm not doing tuesday nights Okay, that's fine. I've got the answer. truck it over.

Speaker: We're kind of... a evolving into the world of football finance. art So let's do that second section in terms of... How fucked are we point two, which is more around... off the field.

Speaker: I mean... ive I've put stuff out there. but We're still in this situation where there's a lot of people angry that the Dansons aren't spending money and want rid of them. but well protesting against them but what are they protesting for because I'm never 100 % certain, but I'm 99 % certain that nobody's...

Speaker: desperately looking to buy us. or neither has anybody desperately behind us. there's always that kind of little nagging doubt that... Maybe there is some truth and they are blocking it and there's some evil plan to run us out of business. And now you've got the stadium, what the conspiracy theorists say. but him you've got to remember what i you know you all know what i do for a living it's just like and But you all understand yourselves. It's simple commercial sense, isn't it, really? They don't want to lose between five and ten million a year. They want to lose.

Speaker: ideally Two to four. which unfortunately means that we can't put much of a team on the pitch, which unfortunately means we might get relegated. And that's just the way it is. And until somebody comes in...

Speaker: Because what is it? The average losses in League One are something like 7 million. which is I always look at it like over a 10 -year feet period, it's like 80 to 100 million quid. And that's just if you stay in this division. If you go up, you can kind of accelerate that. and might down some borders. got us out the shit, and then his bass said, well... you need to be run. sustainably which we know doesn't work in football but one of the alternatives, you know. and where Where do we go from here? and Personally, I mean, I've said this before.

Speaker: I know it's shit, but if we did go down or even down again, we'd still be there. And eventually we'd come back to teams like Stockport or Wrexham. I think with more about us to be like clubs like that. then just be very light I don't know Halifax or Torquay or Chester who've never really... We turn, but then... Obviously, I don't want us to go around that road. and Back to the football, I hope Caldwell will turn it round. and I hope we find a genuine buyer who will.

Speaker: invest a bit because the whole The club's been gutted at the bit and we've talked about the off -field stuff. And then... but it is it is what it is and I remember I always think that's something. When we got to the Premier League, there was a meeting between Dave Whelan and whoever it was at Bolton, Phil Gartside.

Speaker: And Gartside, when they got to the Premier League, Gartside said to Winslow, like, how many staff have you got? He said, oh, we've got about 12. And that guy outside said to him, like, you need at least 50 when you're in the Premier League. And Whelan said like that, well, fucking make do with 12, you know what I mean? so They've probably still got more staff than they have. before we started the rise it's just it's a shame when people losing the jobs so a lot of good people

Speaker: and And, you know, as people pointed out, it doesn't seem to be happening over on the rugby side of things, which is why people are getting, again, quite rightly. a bit upset about it and making a lot out of it. but you know a lot say there that's that's my two penny with but how how do you feel about the finances Do you feel that the Dansons... Well, should we be protesting against them?

Speaker: Is the biggest crime the money or is it the lack of care that they're given? Which is another story altogether, I guess. which is valid yeah they say lack of care i don't know i think there's something about Do not. They're not opening the box at all. Nobody's sort of explaining to us.

Speaker: what the plan is. you know there's there's a view if you look at us and you take things you take you know what you're hearing. as as right. and you know the attempt to sign.

Speaker: home phrase on the last day in transfer window that didn't work out for financial reasons for salary cap reasons that There is a will somewhere for them to...

Speaker: invest because spending that money on somebody's wage would mean more loss. book. that the restrictions that we're working under. potentially sort of like compounded by extra scrutiny because of the last two owners that we've had. and the four cups that time made of the whole situation.

Speaker: and might mean that actually it's harder for anybody in charge of Wigan Athletic to spend money then potentially it is somebody else that we are working under. strict rules in terms of how much of a wage bill that we can have.

Speaker: and um that's It's hard to... to put a quick fix in place for that. because i think i you know i said last time my my reading of the rules is if you want to up the The wage bill.

Speaker: Bye. quarter of a million quid, then Danson has to find half a million pounds worth of cash. to do it And he asked the... burn that half a million pounds with the cash. You can't loan it to the club like owners would have done in the past.

Speaker: All right. I see signs in... recruitment the forget about quality but the way they're recruiting and signing younger players that they've got a chance of selling on And...

Speaker: Still pushing. the academy line and things like that it feels like doing it on the cheap but actually it is It is a business model that we've the club's always tried. to well not always recently in recent years i've always tried to push and run with.

Speaker: and and some of it doesn't look the same. financially so much as it feels different and there doesn't seem to be... that buzz or the two -way communication between clubs and fans that there has been a other points in time.

Speaker: and And I wonder whether that's really where things are falling down at this minute. Because I hear people complain and I can see why they want... They think it's as easy as... spend some more money but when you push back on when there is no money Sometimes you don't really get anything else. You know you don't get a... This is why I'm complaining. and you You get intangible.

Speaker: things about the feel of things or You know. what what they're doing to the club. And I don't know. you know I think if we'd have had a better start to the season.

Speaker: then you know we wouldn't be having this conversation. so much to be honest. or even Even if we got over the line, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

Speaker: That's it in and of itself. ah A lack of calm. some of the comms that they have put out when you've had these fan forums and things has been... completely ah off kilter with. What's actually happening? How will we expect to try and get back in the Premier League in five years? Well, it's all right saying that.

Speaker: But we all know that the only way that that's going to happen is by putting money in. And then if they're not putting money in, it's not going to happen. so Don't come out and say it. if it's not going to happen. And... There are.

Speaker: a subsection of our fan base that will Take them saying that. as that's what they say the set out to achieve Whereas some are... so small Some of those.

Speaker: we'll see that they might well have said it, but if they're not putting the money in, theyrenot it's not going to happen, but we're not going to get old. pitchfork about it. Because you said we were going to be there. because we appreciate that.

Speaker: See you later. bought up. I think that's a massive thing now, is that a football club needs a good communicator. do doesn't come out Daniel isn't going to come out with silly comments.

Speaker: Live. Bye bye. And he's going to be able to. coherently explain what's going on behind the scenes in a way that's palatable for people and you know that's you know We saw that.

Speaker: At different stages, other owners have had had problems with communicating and I think it's a massive problem now. The lack of a... C .L. at this moment in time.

Speaker: I don't know. you know brenda's still but you know a world of a job to trying to hold things together but at the same time And just... This is the other thing though.

Speaker: Telling the fans what they think they want to eat. But also, the minute you put those comms out... The wider football world understands exactly what you're saying and why. So when you're going in to try and sign somebody or you're wanting to try and get someone off your books, Everybody else knows what situation you're in and how desperate you are to try to shift them on. Autoscience, somebody like the Humphreys thing.

Speaker: Peace. We were led to believe that the Humphreys thing was happening up until a point and then all of a sudden... Bradford demanded a fee of 100 grand out of nowhere, which... was part of it as far as I wasn't aware. Or it was what I did. It was only a review of a book.

Speaker: Yeah, we'll let him go, we'll let him go, we'll let him go. And then right at the very last minute demanding £100 ,000 and then we're having to try and find that money to sign him. it That's where all of this... thought plays out.

Speaker: in public. but we never really get to know what goes on behind the scenes. And even when they have a fan's forum and they tell us one thing, it doesn't necessarily... mean that that's what's happened.

Speaker: Yeah, there's a whole ecosystem into that. Most football fans don't know anything about it, even if you play football manager and shit off of that. Not not to be derogatory in that sense, but it's like whenever I... you know I used to be quite close to... a certain ex -CEO. I still know him now, to be fair. like and i sound I ask him questions sometimes if it helps me explain things at last. You know, a lot of the times I'd go to them and send something, whether it was a complaint or a grievance or something like, why don't you do that?

Speaker: it also it's not as simple as that but then he would explain why it's not and there's always there's always dynamics at work like you say if you start publishing oh we're going to go out and spend millions and that's going to inflate the price applies for everything Similarly, when you skint, people will try and sign your players on the cheap. It's just... But then there's all there's a whole, like I said, ecosystem behind that. And I think...

Speaker: What they've done is... i mean Nobody's run a football club before, apart from Brenda, who's 80, and is meant to be a non -exec, but is basically running the club full -time in the absence of anything else. so That's why, as you say, they need to get that chief exec in.

Speaker: some of the chi that's been flying around i mean i do feel for the supporters club because they're getting it in the neck and i'm like this is when people who aren't even members of the sports club and you know they're they're like why don't you why don't you do something and they're just trying to do the same they're trying to get answers What, that?

Speaker: being ignored as well half the time, you know. and i just think This is a microcosm of the last two times this happened, though, isn't it? And said I'm not... I'm not, for one, comparing Danson to...

Speaker: Oh, young girl. thumbs. Or Mr. Al -Jazmi. Um, Yeah. We still expect the bills will be paid. It's just that they're a lot less than they were. It's... Yeah.

Speaker: Hi. I think we said at the start... um when we started talking about it. If we just had... A better start. on the pitch this season. I don't think half of the noise that you're hearing would be there at the moment.

Speaker: um And... that's That's football, isn't it? If you do well... on the pitch. Nobody really gives a shit about what's happening off the pitch because look look at us under...

Speaker: under Phoenix. Look at us under IEC when we were spending millions more than we'd ever spent before. Because... You were getting all these exciting flashy signings, Jamal Lowe, Kiefer Moore.

Speaker: um Cedric Kipray. Endless millions being spun. Nobody was really looking where that was coming from. Nobody was looking. what that was doing to us. um doing to us in terms of what might be coming down the line. And the same again under Phoenix. one. when we were taken over by them. Bahrain is... It was.

Speaker: well, we're going to get promoted. So it's like everybody's ignoring. the glaring issues which are We've burned through. God knows how many millions. Um...

Speaker: On the wider... the wider dancing situation. Yeah, it's It's crap at the moment, but I think there's... I think there's... Glowing differences.

Speaker: in terms of... Ho, people. see this between those of us that were the freewheeling. and those of us that were there during our post -wheeling. um Absolutely.

Speaker: I'd love to say that... We are back. in our natural place. Because... really after After the time was spent in the Premier League, time was spent in the Championship. We shouldn't be back at this level.

Speaker: But... It is, essentially, we've gone back to the future. We're back in 1995. We've not got a pot to piss in. and was scrubbed. scrabbling her around trying to get the best youth prospects from Merseyside and Greater Manchester to sell on.

Speaker: And. Maybe that is what we are. The supporters club, I think, put out a statement earlier in the summer, of which were they were derided for, which clumsily... try to put.

Speaker: put that point across. essentially saying that we're at a lower level now. And yeah, you should accept that and we shouldn't accept that and we should always strive for more.

Speaker: um I think it's scandalous when you look at how Premier League clubs like Bournemouth and Brighton and Brentford Peace. We've done their bit of the Premier League compared to how we did our bit of the Premier League.

Speaker: And that's the sort of club that we could be. But for one reason or another. It's not happened. I think the reason that's not happened... i you know as is but like Let's not hide behind it. we sort of like with The story of Wigan Athletic over the last 30 years is one of financial doping.

Speaker: yeah We were one of the originals. I'm not saying we invented it, but you know the the the rise through the league was through us paying... more than we could afford and more than we should have been paying. for players and wages.

Speaker: then Souls. we got we got the And very quickly, Whelan realised that it wasn't... goingnna it wasn't the land of milk and honey. that he thought it might going to be and he was going to have to carry on.

Speaker: pumping money in. And... and you know the And that's carried on since. you know The Chinese did it, the Bahrainis did it, you know at different levels. And um what we're seeing now is that we're coming off financial doping. And, you know, it, it's...

Speaker: I'm saying it's as hard as coming off smack, but it feels... bad it's cold you know it is cold turkey isn't it that we're going we're going through now and it's not So we'll be right back.

Speaker: is Again, it might just be me being being naive. bull. actually some of that, you know, you need to... Feel the pain. before you can start to rebuild and become healthier That's it. I sort of... i sort of get that. that you know it takes we lost those whatever it was three four years worth of And.

Speaker: academy graduates and we're having to sort of like bridge that gap now and it'll be it can be three four years before we Touch wood, start to see.

Speaker: you know, the prophets of... that rebuild and yeah this happened tell me if i'm being stupid tell me if i'm being naive but i'm not I don't think it's always gloomy. gleaming dame.

Speaker: And as as... All the people think it is, yes. I'd prefer to have somebody... who's prepared to leave 10 million and get us off the other end of the table but you know so that is what it is I think if you take the dance and hear it as a whole.

Speaker: Sorry, Jimmy. If you if you take the dancing era as a whole... We've gone from... When he first took over, Maloney was backed in that first season. Like the squad that was assembled.

Speaker: in that first League One season. Without that. minus eight that we got would have been in the playoffs. and In terms of... Um, in terms of the transfers we made. Even when we were under transfer embargoes, it would... There were decent simons and there was money.

Speaker: put aside for pre -season training camps like they went to They went to the Hungarian national. Um, Academy. for the first two seasons. Lowe took him to Spain and he's...

Speaker: He's cut to Barcelona. Not Barcelona, sorry. The other one, Benidorm. And... It's only now where that seems to be falling by the wayside. So I think there's been money there to spend.

Speaker: But... The question is... and Has it been spent well? and Obviously, it hasn't because we're... with no fervour on be that money on spent on the pitch be that money spent off the pitch.

Speaker: It's been... it's been squandered essentially. And I think... in the Danson family. Webber. whether rightly or wrongly, have said, well, Well. That's.

Speaker: That's your lot, essentially. and will We all... We'll spend... what we can, but it's not going to be it's not going to be nearly a month's worth of... but it was previously.

Speaker: um Yeah. Like, lo... Lowe was backed last season in the transfer market. whether it was... The kind of money you'd expect is is up for debate, but he was still backed.

Speaker: Um, Yeah, it's... Oop. I don't... ah um I'd love to. I'd love to say everything's... bright and beautiful because it clearly isn't. There are serious issues there and I think it would be best for all concerned.

Speaker: If we found an ownership group that was... willing to invest in us. and willing to... Um, push us on to a higher position.

Speaker: Cool. At the same time, The bills are getting paid. And that is better than the last set of owners. because we were close to liquidation. And... Yeah.

Speaker: It's just really it's really difficult. And I can understand. From all sides, I can understand from those that are furious. I can understand from those young lads that might have seen us.

Speaker: back end of the Premier League Championship seeing us winning the FA Cup so this now Because it's so different. it it bought Four. 90 % of the football pyramid, this is it. You are just existing.

Speaker: and There's a wider debate to be had. where There's got to be some financial reset within football as a whole. There's an argument that what Danson's doing is... Peace. is to be...

Speaker: be commended. Yeah, we're only going to spend... what we generate. Brilliant. But unless... The other 92 were doing that. you're fucked it's the same with climate change it's like we we can do as much as we want here But until you've got India...

Speaker: the US -China. doing their bit. It doesn't matter. You might as well. you might as well just piss your mummy away. yeah I think but Well, it sounds like we're all preach the converted. it and you know I take your point in terms of yeah Anyone under 40 is probably not.

Speaker: doesn't remember those circumstances that were in before and i don't want it was to sound like we're dwelling in it or even enjoying it it's just it's just a fact isn't it really and the stuff around the dancers around they want 10 million for a football club without a stadium Pretty sure they give it away for nothing. You just don't not put a price on someone in case somebody is daft enough to pay 10 million quid for it.

Speaker: but um But is that a buyout then? Pretty certainly not. You know, they were talking about Carragher and Fowler. Carragher, who had his tax bill and seemed to be on his way to have to file for bankruptcy. Fowler Roots on LinkedIn.

Speaker: begging for a job because he's been sacked by whichever Saudi club he's at. so but But yeah, I mean, you know me, I'm not about to stay on this podcast, but I do have pretty useful contacts and I can't find anything in it. but um But yeah, it's just a shame because I think whereas we have been in jeopardy a couple of times. We were really, really in serious jeopardy. This actually isn't as bad. it's probably like we were in mid -90s when we were on our arse and we were just kind of getting minimal funds spent on us. And I think the problem is... is

Speaker: a lot of our fans are too young to have remembered that and the ones that are older dare i say a lot of them might not have been watching us then, given we were only getting crowds about it. 1500 and a lot of them will be dead now.

Speaker: You know what I'm saying? Everyone wants to talk about the hardship when when you support any club. You know, Liverpool United fans, when you ask them why they support them, they're like, oh yeah, I was supporting them when they were shit. You know, people love to revel in the hard shit, but when you... the The reaction you get when we're going through a rough parts.

Speaker: seems to suggest otherwise because people are getting so... Bloody upset. And like you say, if we if we win a couple of games, we'll be out and then, you know, we'll be out with the bottom four. and They'll be back tomorrow in about...

Speaker: fucking passing around at the back or something like that but there's just so much drama in football and it's like, yeah, we've got to, no matter how many times you sing Dancing Out or you call them baldy bastard on Twitter or call them some scruffy, that's not going to make them put money in. That's not going to make them.

Speaker: So a club, unless there's somebody looking to buy it, who is... reasonable and and obviously the last for all of you that. Box three or four. have been shit. And also people who tried to buy and failed have also generally been shit.

Speaker: So it is a case of... you know be careful what you wish for that's um Let's crack on I guess. Yeah, I think it's a good comparison as well, that sort of mid -90s one in that... Yeah.

Speaker: I did. the mood music seems to sort of add place. dancing in the sort of like Bill Kenyon camp. and But... you know i think time will tell and it may prove that this is more of a sort of like um Stephen Gage and whatever the hook the other fellow was called, ree Reset. Nick Vitale.

Speaker: Yeah, there's one. Yeah. no not um's Something that we something we that we might be able to move on from. But yeah again, time. Time will tell with these things. There's no quick answers to anything.

Speaker: Yeah. you know there's a bit of me that still thinks like oh yeah maybe there's some truth in these Like. I want him called conspiracy theories, but. and and And as a fanzine editor, I should be the one at the front with the pitch for it.

Speaker: I don't know in my head I just don't see it I just think yeah you know it's and certainly like the rest of you guys you're pretty bloody level -headed and But then there's other people out there with other opinions that are flaming mad. and maybe they've got a point too, but, um you know, judging by the same people who are always...

Speaker: call the supporters club names and very bad names as well that Chris usually says on this podcast then you know it's like yeah who's the good guys who's the bad guys here is it the ones calling out the the conspiracy, calling out what is really going on, or is it the ones who are just...

Speaker: quietly getting on with doing our crappy podcasts like this and spending the max days doing eight hours volunteering. and You know. Thanks a lot. Yeah, I don't genuinely know the right answer, but I know what I'm leaning towards and it's just...

Speaker: Yeah, it's tough at the minute. All he's dried up. but But yeah, for the previous 20 years, all we've had is money pumped in, as you say, right at the start. i so We're kind of back to where we were. And the other final thing that does in my head is when fans say, oh, look at Stevenage. Oh, look at Wickham. Why can they sign Jay Wareham? Because they have got their own route who does give a fuck about the club and also doesn't give a fuck about... shocking money and that he's never going to see again, which Danson's already done probably significantly more of. So it's just like...

Speaker: You can't look at other clubs' highlight reels and say, I want to be them. Because Wickham have been out of the league. Stevenage might be better than us at the minute but Have they ever fucking won the FA Cup or been in the Premier League? Will they ever do that? You know what I mean? We look at other clubs who are at the top of their arc.

Speaker: And we say, well, that's not fair. We should be there. And in reality, football runs in cycles and we're in... We've had the boom and now it's the bust, or hopefully not bust. but Certainly a ah period of austerity, I guess.

Speaker: Yeah. Like you say, the top of their arc is the bottom of ours. Yeah. Well. But what people are just never... Happy it's like that. they're addicted to the the success and the pumping money in that we've all talked about. and it's so But anyway.

Speaker: we We are where we are. I think we're back in a few weeks for more football chat and hopefully the the table will be looking a bit healthier and we can... Hopefully we've got on a CEO. and who's can actually who actually lives within 200 miles of Wigan, preferably. it just The club just needs some care and attention and they need to improve the comms. They're not football people, we know that.

Speaker: Boredom. It just needs some football people involved, to really. tell us the truth or not tell us the truth but don't tell us what we want to hear either just be a bit honest and open Any more or shall we wrap up?

Speaker: Oh, we we've got we've got some... We were going to do Bromley things, but we can't now because that game's gone. Mine was just about the menswear shop in Wigan called Bromley's. I was just wondering, A, if it's still open, and B, now I've reached a certain age, would he actually look at the window and go, oh, yeah, that would... quite soon with that.

Speaker: First question's that easy because nothing's still open in Wigan, is that so? No.

Speaker: and But we can have some bone and wood things. Anybody got any for me?

Speaker: now to say I didn't have any last time and i've I've tried to research it and didn't come up with anything. at this time either. Here's to that with Mansfield. And that's a lot.

Speaker: a rough cab right link to Shane Meadows and Dead Man's Shoes but I didn't quite quite feel like the mood I wanted to get across I'm Lee Anderson of the Wellbeing Scouts.

Speaker: just You know, you can also... end I remember going to Mansfield as a kid. I didn't get on the train with the others, but there were four of my mates from Wigan went. And Mansfield apparently had a hooligan firm called the Mansfield Martini Boys. And they bumped into four of my mates who were at Mansfield and they chased them all the way back to the train station. The only problem was there wasn't a train station in Mansfield at the time. And so they got chased nine miles to Mansfield at Alfredton Parkway.

Speaker: I think that's. perhaps been embellished a bit but it's a sorry tale of again leaner times when no bugger watched us and you used to get your head kicked in just for be one of the A scant few on the away terrace.

Speaker: My only boring one thing is obviously Del Ward, one of the original Cockney Latics. And also it's the home of the... film studio in fact i've got another kevin allen world cup diaries but Obviously, there were loads of us there for Wigan and we were all on telly, like, at ah in the campsite in Pula. And the lads who were next to us in the next tent, they had a massive boring mudflag.

Speaker: They were all Leeds fans for some reason, which is... slightly bizarre only a good bunch of lads So, yeah, it'd be nice to see them again and and undoubtedly we'll be playing them in the league sooner or later anyway.

Speaker: Sean, Chris, any more Boreham Wood or Mansfield? I've just stuck Mansfield into Google and it says, are you looking for information on visiting Mansfield, local council services or a different Mansfield such as Mansfield, Texas?

Speaker: Who knew that Texas has got both a Texas Texas? Well, they're probably oil scabs, aren't they?

Speaker: That's quite the distinction, isn't it? Mansfield to Paris. Yeah. Even if they are both in Texas. um i I've no... I've no ballroom wood things. um Apart from I'm not going due to work, which is...

Speaker: Probably. A good thing or a bad thing? the Delete as appropriate on Saturday at half five, I suppose. Um, Monsfield. Um... Well. We beat Mansfield in the Cup, didn't we? Won them alone in his last wins.

Speaker: Um. Hello, Oscars. Remember him?

Speaker: Sharky was a 20 -month field.

Speaker: You both should. Oh, somebody need to get the phone. Special as ever. It might work for all that. That's word. Thanks. All right. Well, unless anyone's got anything else, let's bring this one to a close. And I fucking hope it's recording this time.

Speaker: um I just had one at AOB. Actually, it's a lot better now than it was last week. We have 50 fans in left. Thanks to everyone who's bought one. More up to issue 97. I've got about five copies at home. It's in the shops, but if you want to buy one online, just... morosa .co .uk But while I'm on, I've also had to... the PiSite revamp. There's some interesting developments coming that way. I think we'll save that until next time now, Chris. We didn't get that in, did we?

Speaker: No, we've not mentioned him at all have we? my little brush with fame a couple of weeks ago. But all will be i will be i'll be ah revealed soon. um Anybody got anything else or Al, do you just want to play us out?

Speaker: but well if nobody's got anything else up again i'll stick with the Same. song as last time one that just sort of like Orally captures the... yeah There.

Speaker: The Mood at the Minute and it's Fontaines DC with Death Kink.

Speaker: Well, best of. See you later.