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Mediation Matters: Navigating Employment Law Disputes
19 Plays3 months ago
In this episode of Flex Your Rights, we dive deep into the world of employment law mediation, explaining the difference between litigation and mediation, and why mediation has become a popular way to resolve employment matters. Attorney Corey breaks down the complexities of this alternative dispute resolution process, exploring its benefits, challenges, and best practices.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Flex Your Rights Podcast. I'm your host, Corey Hanrahan. This is the podcast for informing employees of their rights in California. So if you want to know your rights so that you can flex them at work, this is your show.
00:00:15
Speaker
Let's get flexing.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey, welcome back to the Flex Your Rights Podcast. You've got me, attorney Corey Hannerhan. We've got Travis Triggs, and we've been gone for a while, Travis. I know. We haven't recorded in a while, but it's good to be back.
00:00:34
Speaker
Good to be back in the booth. And um we've got something special today that we cooked up for you. So- You know, a lot of what we've been doing in previous videos are talking about your rights, your rights as an employee so that you could flex your rights.
Corey's Dual Role and Mediation Basics
00:00:50
Speaker
And um so a lot of people don't know this. So in addition to being an employment attorney, I'm an employment mediator as well. So I offer mediation services. So Travis and I were talking about that. And Travis is like, look, explain mediation to me.
00:01:03
Speaker
And he goes, let's it's do a video on it. right If Travis has questions about mediation, other people probably have questions about mediation. and And I get a lot of questions about mediation, people wondering what it's about.
00:01:17
Speaker
How's it different than going to court? And a ton of questions. So Travis and I got together and we go, look, let's let's dive into it. Travis hit me with every question that he can think of about mediation and let's do it. let's yeah Let's educate everybody because I feel like this is one of the things you've got to know that you can flex it to because it's a...
00:01:39
Speaker
It's a somewhat a part of enforcing your rights and litigation, but it's a little bit different than litigation. So let's let's dive into it, Travis. What do you think?
00:01:50
Speaker
Oh, we should definitely dive into this because I didn't know what mediation was before you told me about it. so And I know I'm not the only person that thinks that. I think this is going to be a great conversation.
00:02:01
Speaker
If you're listening, stay tuned and stay listening because you're going to get some really good information that you may be able to pass on to somebody you know that's going through some problems at work. Yeah, let's hit it. right, Travis, go for it man. What do got? got the question. So very the very first question of questions is this.
00:02:16
Speaker
What is mediation? Oh, good question. So, I mean, I think the textbook definition of mediation is a facilitated negotiation between two parties using ah independent, disinterested third party and trying to get the case result, right? And that person is the mediator.
00:02:37
Speaker
So really what it is, it's a negotiation between, let's take the employment context, a negotiation between an employee who has a claim and an employer who the claim is made against, and you have the mediator just trying to help them negotiate, come to ah come do a settlement, right come to a resolution.
00:02:59
Speaker
And so the media is just going back and forth. I mean, think about like think about buying a car. Think about a car dealership, right? You've got the customer who could be the employee in this situation.
00:03:10
Speaker
And then you've got the employer who's maybe you know the manager who makes the final decision on the price of the car. And then you've got the salesperson who I kind of look at as like the mediator in a way, right? the employer goes you know The employee, the customer goes, look, we'll give you 50 grand for it.
00:03:30
Speaker
And that mediator, the salesperson goes, I don't know. i mean, let me go check with the manager. right Let me see what I can do for you. And goes to the manager, comes back and goes, you know i got him to come down to 52.5, know that's about that's about all we can do. That's what he's telling me.
00:03:46
Speaker
And you come back and go, well, you know how about you throw this in or that in? or you know And that's really it, right? That mediator is person who's in both rooms, who's going back and forth. who's sort of exchanging the information and trying trying to get the parties to be able to resolve their dispute um so that it either doesn't go into litigation or doesn't have to go further into litigation.
00:04:11
Speaker
Okay. so this is That was a long answer, Travis. That was perfect. That was perfect. The reason why it's perfect because it's like, okay, I'm a regular person. that was what what would is You would use mediation to not go to court is what you're saying? like that is that Since you're the middle person, like you're the salesperson who's between the customer and the sales manager. I like i love how you broke it down like that too because I'm from the car.
00:04:35
Speaker
I was previously in the car industry, so this relates to me personally even better. Yeah. And that wasn't intentional, which I love. So like you would be the person, the mediator is a person that's stopping the customer or whoever from going to court. Court would be the sales manager.
00:04:53
Speaker
Is that right? well Well, I mean, not really. So in that in that in that example, the sales manager was like the employer, right? You know, the defendant. so So, you know, the salesperson, you know, the mediator is sort of the liaison between the two to try to get a deal done.
00:05:09
Speaker
Right. So it it doesn't really have anything to do with, you know, court or no court because mediations can happen at any time. You could mediate a case before it's filed.
Timing and Cost Benefits of Mediation
00:05:20
Speaker
Right? By saying, look, let's try to get this resolved before both sides spend a bunch of money on costs, on attorney's fees, trying to litigate it. Let's just see if we can resolve it early.
00:05:30
Speaker
um A lot of cases are mediated during the litigation process. So the the lawsuit's been filed, some discovery's done, maybe de depositions have been taken, and then you know the parties go, let's let's go see if we can resolve the case.
00:05:43
Speaker
right Now that we have the facts on the table, we know what it's about. Let's hire ah a mediator and see if they can get the case done. You could even mediate after trial. So let's say you go to trial, you win a bunch of money.
00:05:56
Speaker
The defense says we're going to appeal. We think the judge made some errors or you know whatever. They can say, let's try let's try to get it resolved now before we appeal it. So technically you can mediate at any point in time.
00:06:12
Speaker
you know, generally the earlier the better because it's before you've spent a bunch of money on like costs and and attorney's fees and stuff. So, you know, it can be more beneficial to do it earlier, but sometimes, you know, the the cases just aren't ready to settle until those facts are sort of out and you mediate it after there's been some discovery done in litigation.
00:06:31
Speaker
Okay. Now you did say the words cost. um Is this something that people do to save money? Like you can save going with the mediator when the lawsuits.
00:06:41
Speaker
So a person wants to sue someone. They've said, you know i'm going to sue you. They started the paperwork, the process. You can kind of help like lower the fees for someone or lower the cost for someone if they're in the midst of suing like their job, their, their employer.
00:06:56
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, so yeah yeah on the employee side, you know, the employee side, generally you're hiring your lawyer on a contingency basis. So that means a percentage, right? So the lawyer gets a percentage of whatever it is that you win.
00:07:09
Speaker
There's no hourly charge, but for the employee, a mediation can help keep the cost down. you know Because by time you get depositions taken, by time you have expert witnesses, you could be looking at $15, $20, $25, $30, possibly $50,000 in costs in your case, which comes out of your share, not the not the attorney's share. So the attorney would get their percentage for their fees, and then those costs come off the top.
00:07:41
Speaker
From the employer's side, employers are paying their attorneys hourly. So by mediating the case and trying to resolve it early, you can save a significant amount of money on the attorney's fees that you're paying as the employer to defend the case.
00:07:58
Speaker
okay Because you know even ah even a steeply discounted rate of like $3.50, $4.50 hour, In the course of litigation, that adds up. That adds up very quick.
00:08:10
Speaker
So it's sort of, you know, it's it's more economical for all the parties to try to get the case resolved through mediation. Okay. So all the parties, both sides. So both sides win by going through mediation.
00:08:23
Speaker
it says It's a win-win. okay its It's a win-win. I mean, look, i mean you know the employer is still going to have to pay money, you know what you mean, to be able to get the case resolved. But a lot of times the amount of money that they would have to pay could be less than what they would just pay their lawyers to defend the case.
00:08:42
Speaker
So, i mean, in that situation, you know, I look at it as sort of a win for them, right? It's costing them lost less money than it would cost to defend the case. so And if you defend it and you get hit at trial, you could be out significantly more money.
00:08:57
Speaker
So really is a win-win situation where the parties can come together, you know, talk about the differences that they have, talk about the dispute and get it resolved without putting it in the hands of a jury after, you know, two years of contentious litigations.
00:09:11
Speaker
Wow. Okay. Now, from from your experience, have you how much time do you think it saves? Like time specific, could it could it stop but ah could that potentially stop a court case?
00:09:25
Speaker
Like you can figure out the mediation, you help figure out what the employee and the employer, you're the person helping them come to an agreement without having to extend the case or extend the problem.
00:09:40
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. that right so with So you know mediations can take, ah you know some some take half a day. Most take a day when it comes to employment cases like this, right? So, I mean, a mediation could be a nine to five.
00:09:54
Speaker
When you fired up at nine o'clock, hopefully you've got a deal done by five and that resolves the case. it's a one day It's a one day process instead of two years of litigation if it goes to court.
00:10:07
Speaker
yeah look Now look, I'm a huge proponent of mediation. Some cases need to go to court. right Because if you mediate a case and the parties just aren't ready yet to get it resolved, um they're just not ready. you know More work needs to be done.
00:10:22
Speaker
um But eventually, you know all the cases get there. i think I think the percentage is still about the same. 95% of cases settle. Oh, wow. So, I mean, if you're looking at that...
00:10:32
Speaker
the odds are your case is going to resolve without going to trial. So if you can do it earlier before the employer spent you know quarter of a million dollars defending it, before the employee spent 20 grand in depositions and expert costs, why not do that early? I mean, that's all more money that you know that either stays in the employer's pocket or goes into the employee's pocket.
00:11:00
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So let's say...
00:11:04
Speaker
Let's say a person wants to sue their employer. They have to go through that process. They have to start the process first before they speak with a mediator like yourself.
00:11:16
Speaker
Or can they just call you directly and start asking you questions before they even file? Do they have to file first and then they talk to you? How
Initiating Mediation
00:11:24
Speaker
does that work? thats So that's a good question. so So mediation isn't having me as the mediator as a resource to ask questions of, right?
00:11:33
Speaker
A mediator or somebody where where both sides would say, so we've got the employer and the employee. They say, look, you know we want to try to resolve this, right? let's engage Let's engage a mediator. Let's engage Corey Handerhan to try to get the case resolved.
00:11:49
Speaker
One of the sides reaches out to me and says, you know what's your availability? You know what i mean? And you know when do you have time to do it? We find a time that works, a day that works for everybody, and we set it up, and then we dive into the mediation session.
00:12:03
Speaker
you know which is you know going back and forth, me talking to both sides, getting information, helping exchange that information. But it's not one side calling up and saying, hey, here's my dispute. What do you think I should do? you know What do you think of these claims? it's not you know It's not reaching out like that. It's setting up a formal mediation.
00:12:22
Speaker
where all the parties are present. And we i mean we can do it on Zoom now, which is the best. i mean the you know The parties are in the comforts of their own home. They don't have to travel long distances anymore. If somebody from l LA wants to mediate with me, they don't have to drive down in the morning and find parking and get there. it's you know They work well via Zoom doing them virtual. so um But it is. It's it's a it's a session.
00:12:48
Speaker
right So everybody's getting together. And we're trying to get it resolved. It's not just one side reaching out, asking questions. Okay. So, and and since it's not one side, so who would be the person that would reach out to you?
00:13:02
Speaker
Who would be that person? Would it be the lawyer? Is there already a lawyer involved already? So there doesn't have, yeah, there doesn't have to be. There doesn't have to be a lawyer involved. I mean, technically parties could mediate they're their issues themselves.
00:13:14
Speaker
but You know, if an employee comes to an employer and says, I'm having this issue, I'm going to sue you guys, you know, they're welcome to say, do you want to try to mediate it with somebody? Generally, it happens with a lawyer.
00:13:26
Speaker
You know, so normally it's, you know, it's the lawyers reaching out to me. Saying, hey, we've got this case, so-and-so's on the other side. um We want to set up a mediation. What's your availability?
00:13:37
Speaker
So it's generally one of the, but it doesn't have to be. You know, it doesn't have to be. I mean, an employee, an employee wouldn't really reach out though and say, you know, i want to mediate. What's your availability? Unless they've reached out to the employer and the employer's on board with it, right? Both parties have to agree to mediate.
00:13:55
Speaker
It's not a one-person thing. So both sides have to agree to the process and then they both have to agree to the mediator. Okay. So I do got to ask, because this is probably one of the really good questions for people to know.
00:14:07
Speaker
um What makes you different from the other mediators?
Corey's Experience and Mediation Style
00:14:13
Speaker
ah That's a good question. I know. yeah Yeah. You know, it i like to think it's a couple of things, right? So the first one is my experience in employment law.
00:14:26
Speaker
you know There's a lot of mediators that you know you look at their bios, their websites, and it says they do business disputes, contract disputes, personal injury, um employment, civil rights. And there's this long list of things they do.
00:14:43
Speaker
I do employment. I mean, that really that's my focus. that's what i that That's what I've been litigating since 2008. And so that's really where I sort of flourish. My knowledge of the law, my knowledge of the nuances of the law, that's my thing, right? So I bring that knowledge to the mediation where you're not spending, as one of the parties, you're not spending two or three hours trying to educate me on what employment law is.
00:15:08
Speaker
I know what it is. You know what i mean? I know what is. We can skip that and we can get right into the facts of the case and be more efficient. So that's one thing I think that differentiates me.
00:15:19
Speaker
The second one I think is... um I mean, I want to say my personality. I mean, I do a pretty good job of connecting with the employers and connecting with the employees, right? on On both sides, because I've you know i've litigated these cases. i you know This is just me.
00:15:39
Speaker
You know I mean? My my personality isn't the adversarial a-hole, you know what i mean? Who's just going to be yelling at somebody. I mean, I've sort of always been, I'm a middle child. I'm a middle child. Maybe this is but I feel like I've always been the peacemaker.
00:15:54
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like, let's, let's, Let's figure out what the differences are and let's just resolve it and move past it. You know what i mean? it's Therapeutically, it's it's sort of like it's it's like healing.
00:16:09
Speaker
You know what I mean? like living with Living with those problems and the dispute and the disagreements is just you know like letting someone live inside of your head rent-free.
00:16:21
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like there's just no need to do it. So if you can, if you can resolve it, my goal is to try to get the matter resolved because I, you know, if it's in the best interest of both parties, but to also let them move on, right. There's the monetary amount involved with what the employee gets and maybe how much the employer saves by, you know, skipping costly litigation and trial.
00:16:45
Speaker
But there's also like the emotional value of that. And like, I see that emotional value, like let's get this resolved so you can move on.
00:16:56
Speaker
You know what i mean? like So you don't have to be like living in the past with this disagreement where everything is shitty, right? Let's just say it's shitty. That's the only swear word I'm dropping this this is the episode.
00:17:10
Speaker
Everything is shitty. Yes. Move past it, right? And like look for those brighter, happier days. And I feel like that's what I try...
00:17:21
Speaker
to bring to the table is letting people realize like life after this dispute is so much better than life in the dispute. Yes. Oh, man, you make me want to work with you right now. I wish I was. Yeah, yeah i that's awesome.
00:17:37
Speaker
But it's true, right? you know There's always a focus on the money and the money is going to be the money. But um you know you have to you know you have to see you know what else you can accomplish by getting it resolved. So again, I think I do a really good job of building a rapport.
00:17:51
Speaker
with people. you know what i mean? I'm not an intimidating retired judge where, you know, people are going to, you know what i mean? Be a little scared to talk. I can usually get people like,
00:18:03
Speaker
you know communicating pretty well. and um And that's what helps get things resolved. You know what I mean? get the thing Get the thing resolved and move on. See, and that's, and I think one of the biggest things that rings my ears because you you you you are an employment attorney and you do have your mediation.
00:18:21
Speaker
And by you saying like working with you is more efficient because you know all the laws already versus someone working with a mediator that doesn't know the employment laws in California specific. And just so I can just tie it down even more, you serve mainly California. Is that like your focus?
Correcting Legal Misunderstandings in Mediation
00:18:38
Speaker
Well, so in my in my practice, right? You know, my employment law practice, yes, it's only California because I'm only licensed in California. And then as a mediator, just because of my knowledge of California, it it is sort of California exclusive, but it's it's all up and down California.
00:18:54
Speaker
I mean, if you know if you're if your're lawyers up in Northern California or LA, Um, you know, it's a, we can do a virtual zoom mediation. It's easy to get on and to have that mediation and convene the session without having to be present physically in San Diego.
00:19:11
Speaker
So, you know, up and down California, I mean, you know, if you've got a, if you've got a ah case that you need mediated, that you're looking for, you know, an employment law mediator, I'm, you know, I i love it.
00:19:25
Speaker
I love it. i mean I really, really believe in mediation, the power of it, getting stuff resolved. um and Again, you know I've been in mediations where the mediators come back and they said, you know the other side saying this, that, this, and I'm like, dude, they're full of it. like that's not That's not the law. That's not the defense. and They're like, well, i you know I don't really know if they are. and i'm not I'm not afraid as a mediator to go, that's not right.
00:19:55
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like I know the law, maybe take maybe take a look at this and let me know what you think. you know But the exchange of information gets things settled and also knowing sort of what the parameters are, right? What the law provides for, what it doesn't, that helps too.
00:20:12
Speaker
And so with me knowing that stuff, you know if if if you say something doesn't quite comport with my understanding of the law, I'm going to bring it up. You know what i mean? I'm there to get the i'm there to get the deal done.
00:20:24
Speaker
And I don't do anybody any service by letting them go forward litigating their case with a misunderstanding of the law. you know Because eventually it's going to catch up to them with the judge or the jury and they're going to lose.
00:20:36
Speaker
And so I feel like it's you know you people have hired me to try to get things resolved. If I think you've got it wrong, I'll let you know. You can look it up and you know and make that determination yourself.
00:20:47
Speaker
But I'm not afraid to say, i don't think that's quite right. i don't think that's quite right. Okay. Now, is there cases where a person cannot like their mediator? Is there cases where people's like, you know what, this person isn't working for us? Or is it we've already made this person the decision.
00:21:04
Speaker
We've already chosen to work with him. We can't get out of this. We have to work with this person. Well, maybe for other mediators. um no No, all jokes aside.
00:21:15
Speaker
No. So I mean, once you're in the mediation, you're in the mediation. Okay. You know what i mean? Like you could just say, look, I don't i don't like this person. I don't want to keep using them. And you don't have to. You can end the mediation at any point, right?
00:21:28
Speaker
And i should you know I should have brought this up at the beginning. This is a great point. The mediators, Travis, as a mediator, I have the zero power in the mediation. So I can't say, look, the case, you know, the case settles for this much money.
00:21:45
Speaker
I can't say the employee gets this much money, right? I have zero power. I am really just that person bringing a message back and forth to the parties, trying to get them to an amount of money that will resolve the case.
Role of the Mediator
00:22:04
Speaker
but I don't have the power. So you know even if somebody didn't like me, there's really no harm I can do as the mediator. okay you know i Because I can't say, look, you're getting 10 grand. That's it. you know Be thankful for that and you know leave.
00:22:19
Speaker
ah There's no power there at all. it's i Really, you know the mediator is only that person that's helped trying to facilitate the resolution. You know, the facilitator, no power to award anybody money to make anybody pay money.
00:22:34
Speaker
It's just using those skills that I have in dispute resolution to try to get the parties to realize that they're going to be able to get a good deal if they get the case resolved for X number of dollars.
00:22:46
Speaker
Okay. That's it. Okay. And then it sounds like, you know, that right there, getting to the numbers, but working with the right person could be, could could save you a ton of money by working with the right person because you can speed up the conversation.
00:23:03
Speaker
Having the right educated person in the field would make your life easier, you're the the the employer's life easier, the lawyer's life easier. So um I don't just mean to, if anyone's listening to this, I'm not trying to tell you to work with Corey, but you should just just work with Corey. Just hit him up. He's a mediator.
00:23:21
Speaker
can't do that, but I can. There you go, Travis. But it's true. I mean, even if it's not with me, you know what mean? Of course. like mediation is, I think, I mean, I'd rather have it be with me, but mediation is a really positive experience.
00:23:37
Speaker
As an attorney representing clients, I've never had a client go, well, that sucked. You know what i mean? like Sometimes you know you go to mediation, you don't get the case resolved.
00:23:49
Speaker
You learn stuff though about the case. Maybe it helps set the stage for a resolution shortly thereafter or a little bit further down the road. um But i've never I've never attended a mediation that wasn't helpful in at least some regards.
00:24:06
Speaker
Okay. You know what I mean? So it's
Commitment to Resolution
00:24:10
Speaker
a good thing. It may not resolve that day, but as a mediator, I don't give up either. So like if there's if there's a crack that I can see that's going to help be able to get the case resolved, but we don't get it resolved that day, I'll be like, stay tuned to be continued. And I'll let the lawyers know, like, let me make some phone calls. I'm going follow up with you. Here's what I want you guys to talk about.
00:24:32
Speaker
And, uh, and I will not stop trying to get that matter resolved until we get it resolved. Oh, wow. Okay. This is perfect. Now, Corey, don't quit. Oh yeah. Well, with this episode, you know mean, man i don't like the episodes being too long because know people listening, you got things, dude, you're probably on the road right now.
00:24:52
Speaker
So I want to make the next episode, if you're listening, you want to tune into the next episode, I wanted the next episode to go over like examples of what a mediation looks like. like The real process of in like you're in it. This is what's going on. um This is what need from you. this So you understand what's going on. So if you guys are listening, make sure you tap into the next episode because we're definitely going to go into more detail.
00:25:12
Speaker
um I think I've asked you enough. i get I got a good understanding personally what a mediator is just off of this conversation. So I hope the people that are listening do as well. If you if you do not...
00:25:23
Speaker
ah understand something, please leave a comment, reach out to Corey. Reach out to Corey. would say reach out to me, but I wouldn't be able to help you. I'll just send you over to Corey. So reach out to Corey. Corey, how can people reach out to you? How can people find you if they're like going through it right now and they're listening to this? Like i need give Corey a call right now.
00:25:41
Speaker
How can people reach out to you? I mean, you can find me, you know, Hanrahanfirm.com. um I've got my mediation website, Hanrahanmediation.com. ah So both of those will let you find me. Phone number 619-377-6522.
00:25:55
Speaker
You can email me at Corey at HanrahanFirm.com. You can email me or at Corey at HanrahanMediation.com. Google me. I mean, I pop up. There's a lot of easy ways to find me. You can send me message through the website.
00:26:07
Speaker
you know Always, always happy to talk with you. And yeah, Travis, let's do that.
Episode Conclusion and Future Discussions
00:26:11
Speaker
Next episode is going to be sort of you know ah explaining the process of mediation because I think that's important for people to know. So I like that idea, man.
00:26:21
Speaker
Oh, this is perfect. Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in. My questions are done for this episode. Corey, close it out. You're the best. Hey, appreciate you guys. It's good to be back. We went a little long, Travis, but ah you're right. Once we start talking, it's hard to stop.
00:26:35
Speaker
Flex Your Rights Podcast. Stay tuned. Listen to the next ah episode where we'll give you sort of a breakdown or run through of what that mediation session looks like. And as always, I appreciate all of the listeners.
00:26:47
Speaker
You you've got something you want Travis and I to talk about, reach out, let us know, it we'll cover it in a future episode. So remember, know your rights so you can flex your rights. Thanks, everyone.
00:27:06
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Flex Your Rights Podcast, the podcast to educate California employees so that they can flex their rights in the workplace. If you'd like to reach out to me to ask me any questions about today's episode or make a suggestion for a future episode, you can find me at attorneycorey.com. That's attorneycorey, C-O-R-E-Y o r e y