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Season 2, Episode 14
13 Plays2 years ago
To make a comic book, it takes both people working on their own and getting together.
Many professional comic artists today work on bigger projects that involve multiple talents– writers, colourists, and letterers. All specialists who contribute separately to make a comic book.
But then on their own, many artists work on their own comics, their own creations and characters, making something that has meaning to them, alone.
Despite working on their own (in dispersed locations and in isolation), the individual comic book artists and creators are able to address specific submarkets.
When comic book artists, like Mary Guo, Tristan Bun and Isabel Torrubia Gortari, create using their own lived experiences and their specialized skills, what emerges are topics they are interested in: stories about loneliness and isolation.
And those individual stories connect to others – tens of thousands of readers – each time they post their comics online.
By telling their own stories about being alone, they find their audience.
Transcript
Art as a Reflection of Loneliness
00:00:00
Speaker
ways. So we've done episodes about art and how art can tell us things about loneliness. And that's where Guillermo's expertise is coming from. He has a background in art. And so for me, one of the episodes I wanted to explore was
00:00:18
Speaker
Why is it that comic book, why is it that artists are often lonely? How does that help their art and how in your art you portray loneliness? So I know they might tell big topics, but I'd love to hear from you about, you know, how did the pandemic affect your feelings of loneliness?
00:00:40
Speaker
Okay, yeah, it's starting there. And maybe then I can respond how I think loneliness helps my art if it does. Because I have my doubts to this day, but definitely the pandemic is put a stop or put a halt in the
00:00:58
Speaker
in the style of art that I was pursuing more often.
Artistic Identity and Personal Connection
00:01:01
Speaker
When I was living in Montreal, I used to draw one comic a day and they would run range. I would draw about many different topics. Sometimes it's sillier, sometimes it's deeper. I try to keep a balance too.
00:01:19
Speaker
But the pandemic I think for me was a moment for reflection. So instead of producing that much, like that much, I used that time to think about where I wanted to go with my art, what other mediums could I use.
00:01:37
Speaker
If I was still connected to my character, because that's a big thing in my case, like it's a totally different character, doesn't even represent me physically, doesn't even have my name, which has to do with maybe loneliness too.
00:01:52
Speaker
But for me, the pandemic was a moment to stop and reflect where I wanted to go. And whether I felt connected to my character, to the stories I was telling, and whether I was being in a way honest with how I was feeling, so I needed a time to pause and gather. But one of the things that I've noticed is that people really
00:02:21
Speaker
see themselves in my comics. I get a lot of comments or DMs telling me that they see themselves reflected on my art and that they don't feel as lonely or that they feel accompanied by it.
Creating Petunia: Anonymity and Self-Exploration
00:02:35
Speaker
So that's also a big component of why I produce or draw. It's sometimes because I don't feel lonely myself, but I know that other people do and I want them to have some kind of
00:02:50
Speaker
a reflection or some place where they can comment or some reflection of their own loneliness that I feel very often too, but not always I want to portray. I'm a very private person. That's why my character doesn't even resemble me, doesn't have my name. And I do struggle with feeling like my deepest loneliness too, or my deepest feelings.
00:03:15
Speaker
But I tried to do that because I've seen that people really see themselves in it and it helps them feel more accompanied in a way. Yeah. How did you come up with the character in the first place?
00:03:30
Speaker
Well, this is interesting. So I studied law as a mayor in Spain, but I didn't like it. It caused a lot of suffering to me. And I was always a very artistic kid. I grew up drawing. I grew up writing poetry. I grew up always on the artistic side. But Spain was going through an economic crisis, and my family encouraged me to study something.
00:03:55
Speaker
more like solid as they call it there and I went into law and I studied law and I felt a really big disconnect with myself after four years of doing something that I didn't find are rewarding at all so I was working in Madrid and I was very miserable I was very lonely that was one of the most lonely periods in my life and I created Petunia as a way of going back to myself and in fact the little black bow that she has
00:04:23
Speaker
represents like the bow of grief the bow of grief like in a way I was losing someone or I had say goodbye to someone and I was trying to get back to myself so she has that little detail there that represents the transition between one version to another
00:04:41
Speaker
I created her because I really needed to express how I was feeling, make humor of it, but it was definitely the way that I could go back to myself after years of feeling very disconnected. You say that you deliberately didn't want it to look like you. Why did you do that? Why was that important?
00:05:06
Speaker
For me, I can only talk for myself because I talk to other comic artists and they are more comfortable.
Social Media's Role in Artistic Expression
00:05:14
Speaker
I think it has to do with how comfortable you feel, how vulnerable you feel. I'm not good at concealing how I feel. I'm a very private person, but at the same time, I feel like I'm a very open book. So if I put myself out in the internet, I'm not able to hide.
00:05:35
Speaker
I don't say something unless I feel like what I'm saying is true or it has some kind of value. So for me, it felt that I was too exposed in a way. That's why there are barely no pictures of myself. I barely show my face there.
00:05:52
Speaker
And it's something that I'm not proud of or it's not something that I want to keep that way. I wish I could have more confidence or more, I don't know, that I was willing to share more of myself in that page. But that distance, that physical distance have kept me safe.
00:06:13
Speaker
in a way maybe because I don't feel prepared to own everything that I put out there or to own all the feelings that I put up on the internet so that definitely was for me a way to do social media which is terrifying but at the same time is something that I want to do and that physical distance made me feel more protected and at the same time
00:06:37
Speaker
made me feel a little bit of distance with my character that that helped me see my feelings through her with more distance. So that's what I think what I did because at the moment I it wasn't a conscious decision. You mentioned social media and I think one of the most interesting things
00:06:56
Speaker
is that I've talked to comic book artists who say that they like the use of social media. It's a way for them to connect with the audience without having to actually connect directly with the audience. And one of the things I've been looking at with the history of comic books is, and forgive me because I only know the North American ones,
00:07:20
Speaker
like, you know, the comic book artists of Garfield and Charles Schultz with Charlie Brown and Calvin and Hobbes. And they all describe this way of being able to kind of do their art because
00:07:34
Speaker
They were able to put it out there without having to interact with people, with comic books. And I wonder, with this new era of social media and you as part of this new generation of comic books, how has social media been a good way for you to be able to express what you want to say but not have to put yourself completely out there?
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah, I relate very well to that, to be able to express yourself without having to put yourself out there. And of course, it has to do with how you are, your comfort levels, how vulnerable you feel, how much you like human interaction. So since I was a little girl, I've been very private, like a big inner world. And I have friends and I like my friends, but I have a very selected group of people with which I'm comfortable.
00:08:28
Speaker
It has to do, I think, with how much I feel. I'm a very sensitive person. I process a lot of information. I'm very intuitive and human interaction, which is weird because I'm a teacher and I'm in front of a class every single day. And I deal with undergrads, which aren't like sometimes the kindest people of Earth.
00:08:50
Speaker
And it does take a toll of me, but at the same time, it's very rewarding. But with my art and social media, it's like stepping out on the whole universe is connected there. Everyone can see you. You don't really know who they are. The context of social media and the interaction it fosters is very new.
00:09:11
Speaker
It's like being, saying things there. You don't know how people are going to take them. You don't know who are listening to you, what kind of people are listening to you. And it's very daunting not knowing that. So for me personally, I don't feel comfortable being out in the open.
00:09:32
Speaker
But at the same time, I want to connect with people. It's very rewarding. Social media has opened a lot of opportunities for me. I've met people all around the world. I talk to other comic artists from Malaysia, from the States, from other parts of Europe. And you find these commonalities that artists or people who do art sometimes fail. But at the same time, when you're dealing with your audience, you are not constantly there.
00:09:58
Speaker
And your person, your body, your face, your voice is not being criticized and scrutinized constantly. Which, you know, some people are really good at dealing with that. And personally, I don't know how I would be because, like I say, I'm a teacher, so I deal with it.
00:10:16
Speaker
But in small dosage, I feel like social media is this ocean of faces, of eyes, of voices. So definitely having a character that doesn't look like me, that is slightly different, helps stepping out into that world.
Petunia: Name, Design, and Evolution
00:10:31
Speaker
In a way, she is braver than I am. So yeah, that's how I see it. Why did you name her Petunia? Why Petu?
00:10:41
Speaker
So the whole objective when I started petunia apart from connecting with myself was not to take myself so seriously because I was a very dramatic teenager. So a lot of feelings and I thought it would be beneficial to put humor in it because it's good to understand your own feelings and take care of yourself. But I feel like humor is another very valuable resource to take into account.
00:11:09
Speaker
And petunia is a way that the females in my family used to call each other when we were being overly dramatic. I don't know why, I don't know where it originated. I asked my mom because my grandmother used it too. And it was not only petunia, it was other flower names. But honestly, I don't know where it started. But it was a way of calling each other out when we were being a little bit over the top.
00:11:36
Speaker
So Petunia was someone, a name that really resonated with me. And also it's very funny, like in Spain, Petunia is like a silly name. It's like, it's not a serious name. It's a beautiful name, but like, if you call someone Petunia, it's like more in a joke style. So of course it has to do with my context too. But it has a double recent humor and, and you know, that it was tied to, to my family too, to people that were important.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah, like just random flower names, like more weird, not Rose or Daisy, right? But like more like Petunia, Afufena, Geranio even, Forget Me Not, those things like that. And I've never understood why, one of my birds now it's called Petunia, like Petu. But it had more, it's more due to the fun component in it, I would say.
00:12:28
Speaker
So what did your grandmother call your mother when she was being overly dramatic?
00:12:47
Speaker
has to do a lot with the funny ring that it has. I love it. I love that name. And one of the things when I look at Petunia, she makes me feel really happy to see her. But I also when I when I look at her, she's also so such a full character. So like just really well rounded. And I wonder for you, how did how did the shape of Petunia
00:13:15
Speaker
come about? Did you have earlier versions? Did Petunia come fully formed or were there earlier shapes? I wanted her to have big eyes for sure because for me it's like a way in which I saw the world. I've always been like you know from France I get that oh you're very intuitive you get too much information sometimes you're looking for things all the time
00:13:43
Speaker
and sometimes in a like not so positive way like you should maybe calm down but like that's how I am I'm very observant I feel a lot of things I see a lot of details so I wanted her to have very big eyes that reflected that
00:13:58
Speaker
And a tiny body because like I feel tiny sometimes in the world right like I don't feel big I feel insecure I feel petite I feel small so I wanted that contrast between a big head and a small body because I feel like I've navigated my life and the difficulties and challenges.
00:14:17
Speaker
with my mind, with a lot of dialectics and dialogue with myself, using a lot of brains in a way and trying to think through things. So I wanted to have that contrast between big head and small body and then the big eyes and then the small bow, as I explained.
00:14:37
Speaker
And in this first version, she has three points in her ponytail. Because I have very thick hair, and when I put it up in a ponytail, it doesn't have a uniform form. So that's what it reflected. But then I switched to a bun, which is what I wear normally now when I'm studying or researching.
00:15:02
Speaker
When I started, I was always drawing, but I wasn't as experienced. So the first drawing, I see them now and I'm like, oh my god, those are horrible. But I'm happy that I put them out because I was able to overcome that fear of not putting out something that was perfect.
00:15:21
Speaker
But she has always been the same. The only thing that changes that when I first drew her, I was wearing a jumper and she had that jumper for the first year and a half that I drew her. And then I gave her more freedom with her clothing because I no longer have that jumper. So in a way, she's been a very subtle reflection of my changes throughout the years. Right. And how many years have you been doing Petunia out in social media?
00:15:51
Speaker
As soon as I started drawing her, I started putting her out. So I started in 2017. And for you, when you talked about the shape, how have the colors been important in showing how she feels the world? How has the coloring that you've been using changed or reflects?
00:16:17
Speaker
Um, I started wanting to be mostly black and white, um, mostly for reasons of convenience and time. Cause coloring took me longer. I didn't have that much time because I've always been doing other things on the side. So black and white, cause I thought it conveyed the idea as well. And at the same time, it wasn't as, um, time consuming.
00:16:43
Speaker
But then I started implementing color as a way of highlighting parts. One thing about Instagram is you have like a very small shape to draw. And sometimes I feel like, oh, it's not enough space and I need to do slides, but I don't really like doing the slides. So in a way, color I've introduced to
00:17:04
Speaker
highlight the world around her. She mostly, unless she's wearing some piece of clothing that I want to color, she's mostly black and white all the time. She's just like a black line and white, but things around her have color.
00:17:19
Speaker
And in a way, it's like my way of directing the attention to the outside world and how she interacts with that and how she feels that. And I want to convey that she's a very feeling character. She feels a lot. She serves a lot of emotions. And she sees things outside of herself as with a lot of color, even if herself isn't colored.
Audience Impact on Artistic Acceptance
00:17:44
Speaker
The fact that she's so intuitive and is a black and white character because of the way she views the world, would you call her a lonely character? I think she is. I think she has this longing for connection, but at the same time, she wants to keep
00:18:11
Speaker
not a barrier, but she wants to keep a little bit of distance between her and the world. And I think, yeah, she's a more lonely character than others that I've seen, also because I don't collaborate with others as often. And, you know, because the way she's mostly portrayed is her inner thoughts, her emotions,
00:18:37
Speaker
And sometimes, yes, you see her with a friend or sometimes I draw my friends there secretly or my partners. But there's always this component that she is navigating life and challenges on her own. And I noticed that when people have looked at it, that they have responded. What has that been for you to have this response to your work?
00:19:05
Speaker
Well, it was amazing at first. Now I've changed because when I first started, I really felt lonely. I felt weird, especially because I was studying law, so my immediate context didn't fit with me.
00:19:20
Speaker
I felt like a total weirdo. I wasn't really making friends at law school because I didn't have the character. It wasn't my place. My mom says to me now, if you went to art school or something, you've made a lot of friends because you would have understood each other. But in that context, I felt really weird. I felt like my emotions were too big. My feelings were too big. My intuition was wrong all the time.
00:19:45
Speaker
So in a way, when I started drawing her and I saw people responding and I saw that a lot of people saw themselves in her, it started changing my own perception of myself. And I was like, wait, maybe I'm not that weird. Maybe I have a point. Sorry, I need to grab my charger. Wait.
00:20:12
Speaker
So yeah, it has changed the perception I have of myself for sure. I think it helped me accept myself more the way I feel, the world, the way I see the world.
Loneliness as a Catalyst for Connection
00:20:25
Speaker
And it was very, very rewarding to be able to talk to people all around the world that kind of felt in the same way, that felt things very intensely, that they're very sensitive, that they are fragile in a way, which doesn't mean they're not as strong, but like,
00:20:44
Speaker
you know there are parts of yourself that you need to be aware of and take care of and it was very surprising too i stopped uploading for a long time for personal reasons during the pandemic too and i lost quite a bit
00:21:00
Speaker
But I didn't care because I know that the ones that are have always been there, they are still there. And whenever I post or I like even talk to them sometimes over the DMs or I have like their emails from commissions and stuff. So we keep connected. But it was very surprising when at a point I reached like 60K I think a year and a half ago and I was like, wow, like I never expected that.
00:21:24
Speaker
that the character could reflect how people felt and of course it made me more confident you know like i feel and i feel this way and it's not weird there are a lot of human beings
00:21:37
Speaker
that navigate the world in a similar way that they can find points in common with my work. I love that. And I think for me, that was when I said, I want to do a show about loneliness. People were saying, why do you want to do a show about loneliness? I said, because it's not a depressing
00:21:57
Speaker
It's not going to be a depressing show, but it's about let's talk about it. And I think in loneliness, there's a lot of ways that people can connect in different ways. And so I feel so privileged that I get to talk to people like you, artists, who are using art to connect with people. And so that is, I think that's what all of us are trying to do in our own ways.
Current Role and Closing Thoughts
00:22:22
Speaker
Isabel, you've been so great to talk to. Thank you so much. I was wondering if I could ask you to say your first and your name and what you do.
00:22:33
Speaker
Okay. Um, thank you. Isabel, Torubia Gortari. And I currently teach at the University of Maryland. I teach Spanish and I, I usually use art in my classes. And then on the side I draw comics and I try to write on my free time, but that's not going that well. But thank you so much. It was a pleasure to talk to you. It was so great to talk to you.