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BONUS EPISODE: SITTING AT THE FEET OF RABBI JESUS Book Review
28 Plays2 months ago
We've certainly teased this a lot, but the December book for our personal book club was Sitting At the Feet of Rabbi Jesus: How the Jewishness of Jesus Can Transform Your Faith by Ann Spangler and Lois Tverberg, and we're finally sitting down to review it.
Spoiler alert: We loved it! It's been transformational in both of our faiths, and we highly recommend it.
Today we'll cover a few of the highlights for each of us, but we barely scratch the surface. There's so much more to glean from this book. Have a listen, and then click the title above to purchase it for yourselves. You won't regret it.
SHOW NOTES
Joy spent the month of January teaching into just one chapter of the book At Table with Rabbi Jesus on her solo podcast The Mentor's Table. Check out her deep dives below.
On the Power of a Table: The Power and Protection From Gathering Around a Table
On the Power of a Table: Tables As Altars
On the Power of a Table: Tables As Peace Sanctuaries
On the Power of a Table: Tables As Invitations to Relationship
📚 Join Our Book Club
We’re excited to invite you into our reading community using Fable, a free book-club app that lets us discuss books chapter by chapter.
📖 As We Grow Book Club
Our next read is Captivating.
You can join at any time—even if you’re listening months from now. The conversations stay open, and we’d love to hear what stands out to you.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Technical Challenges
00:00:00
Speaker
Music
00:00:08
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Hello, I'm Joy. And I'm Gretchen. We both love Jesus. We both love learning. And we needed a place to talk about it. Join us twice a month as we discuss our top two.
00:00:22
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Each of us will bring something we've recently heard or learning or are mulling over about our faith or our walk with Jesus. And then we'll talk about it. Come along as we grow in our walks with God.
00:00:40
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and welcome Hello
00:00:44
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As We Grow. It is so I know, know. For everyone who is listening, we are doing things a bit different. We're doing a remote podcast session today.
00:00:59
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And so we're seeing each other on our cameras, but not in person. ah it's It's fun to see you on video, but it feels weird We're going have to get used to this to be able to do this more often.
00:01:13
Speaker
i know. i know. But it is good in a clinch. So just that everyone is aware, we recorded this session in full.
Joy's Literary Journey and Movie Reflections
00:01:22
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Already once. And while I was editing it for whatever reason, half of the recording did not record. And so we are, we scrounged some time together. The Lord gave us the time to be able to do the this somehow.
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah. and I feel like this is like a rite of passage. Like we're real podcasters now because we had a recording issue and had to rerecord. Yeah, I agree. I've heard other podcasters like say this and it's like, oh, that's never happened to me, but now it has. And so here we go. Here we go. all right. Well, tell me about your week.
00:02:04
Speaker
ah My week was good and terrible. Oh, start with the terrible. no no, I'm going to start with the good.
00:02:15
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Okay. the The good is that I finished reading Pride and Prejudice. What do you think? Okay. First, ah for everyone that's going to be annoyed with me, I cannot help but say Pride and Prejudice.
00:02:31
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I can't say Pride and Prejudice. Like I just, it's past tense. Prejudice. Okay. Well, now everyone knows.
00:02:42
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Go on. and i um But i I absolutely loved it. It was good. It was so good. My sister-in-law was right. i thought I thought maybe I wouldn't but because it's a classic. and it's just I remember like in high school not wanting to read any classics. I just...
00:03:06
Speaker
didn't like them in high school. And then I never tried again. you know When they weren't being forced on me, I never tried again. So I'm really glad that I read it because I loved it. And now I'm like, well, should i read Wuthering Heights next? Like Jane Eyre? What's the next? What should I do?
00:03:24
Speaker
wait a second. You haven't read Jane Eyre? No. Oh my gosh. You need to read Jane Eyre. That's my favorite book in the world. Like really book. Yes. I love it so much. It is a little slow at the beginning, so you have to stick with it, but totally worth it. And I hate Wuthering Heights.
00:03:44
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Wuthering. Wuthering. That's not my thing.
00:03:51
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Okay. Good to know. Good to know. But yeah, i i really i really loved it. like Slow start. And so i liked it, but I was just kind of reading to read. And then right towards the middle of the book, like Elizabeth goes to see ah Mr. Collins and Charlotte or whatever her name is. And that's when Mr. Darcy proposes terribly for the first time and, you know, all of that. And after that, I had a hard time putting it down. Like I was like, i can't make any plans. I need to just read this book. Yeah.
00:04:30
Speaker
Exactly. Like then you're like, okay, Darcy is in now what do we do? Like, how do we? How do we Where do we go from here? That's like one of my favorite parts of the BBC version. Because first of all, Mr. Collins is so insufferable. And I really love the actor that did that so well. And then the proposal from Colin Firth is just so awkward. And it's everything that the book has and then a little bit more.
00:04:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I did already text joy this because I was like, I'm so sorry, but I tried to watch the BBC one first. I got through one and a half episodes and I had to stop. I just couldn't do it. And then i did go and watch the Keira Knightley movie, which I liked in the beginning.
00:05:15
Speaker
I liked the characters more in that one. I thought that the people that they got to portray all the characters were better, like it was a better casting, but I didn't, the second half of the movie didn't match up enough with the book. And that was my favorite part of the book. So I struggled with that.
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah, i i mean, I think since you've read the book, you can you could skip over like definitely the second half of the second episode. I can't remember. But I i think you should try BBC one more time just to get to the second half.
00:05:51
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Yeah. It gives it a lot better portrayal. Yeah. um
Podcasting Dynamics and Book Club Introduction
00:05:56
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Okay. Well, and then that was the good. What's the bad? Okay. The bad was that Jacob and i Saturday night were like, let's have a date night. Cute.
00:06:07
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We'll go to dinner and a movie. great, exciting. I really wanted to go see that new Kate Hudson movie, Song Sung Blue, or whatever it is, and it wasn't playing anymore. So we decided on going to see Marty Supreme because everyone's talking about it. Timothee Chalamet is winning. like He just won the Golden Globes for it. And I watched a preview I didn't watch the whole preview, but I watched a part of her preview. It was about ping pong player. And I was like, table tennis, Timothee Chalamet.
00:06:44
Speaker
Great. We'll go and do this movie. I was thinking it would be the Rudy of table tennis. like thats That's a pretty high expectations. Although it does it is nominated for so many awards that I yes can see how you get there. Yeah.
00:07:05
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Yeah. And it was just like, I don't know. I was just thinking like underdog wants to be, you know, a whatever. That's what I was thinking. No. I was so uncomfortable for two and a half hours, like was checking my phone to be like, when is this going to be over?
00:07:24
Speaker
It was the closest I've ever gotten to walking out of a movie. I hated it I hated every second of it. it was It was not Rudy at all. It was about the worst human being to ever exist in the history human I mean, I'm over-exaggerating, but it's just about this guy who wants to be a table tennis champion, but is so selfish and so horrible and literally sells his family, friends, anyone down the river in order to accomplish this goal. And it causes this ripple effect of terribleness that
00:08:10
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Like everything bad happens. A dog almost dies. a woman and her baby almost die. Like it's just all because of the terrible things that he has decided to do. and so at the end, spoiler alert, when it's supposed to be the redemption arc almost and he like, will he win?
00:08:32
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I didn't even care. i didn't i didn't want him to win anymore. I hated this person and I couldn't root for him. So I don't know. It was terrible, but it affected me.
00:08:43
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I'm just very sensitive to movies in general. I have to be really careful with what I watch. I like,
Scriptural Practices and Modern Discipleship
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you know, those feel good romantic comedies, everything ends up really great in the end type of a movie. And then I don't even like war movies anymore. Like i I, don't think that I could watch saving Ryan now again, even though I've seen it already. I just don't like it and And I think maybe because I haven't watched anything like that in a really long time, watching it affected me so much more. And I just cried for a half an hour afterwards. And I was just like, take me home. i don't even want to. I didn't even want to go to dinner. i was like, take me home. I just want to watch the Golden Girls. I don't. I need Rose. Oh,
00:09:32
Speaker
oh I'm so sorry. i hate when you spend the money and time for it to just be that awful of an yeah outcome. Yes. That's terrible. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Don't go see it, anyone. I highly recommend not seeing it.
00:09:51
Speaker
Zero Rotten Tomatoes. Thank you very much. that Yes. But anyway, how was your week? Oh, it was good. We were hosting again, which I love doing. It was actually kind of funny because like, as we talked about before, I got sick right as our friends were coming to visit. And this was a few days after my, like, almost dying in the car incident. But then I, that's a little exaggerated. And this going to be what it is from now on. That's how I almost died in the car. Yeah.
00:10:27
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But then I thought I was getting better. and then And then I started to feel worse. And I started to spiral a little like, oh, my gosh, I have an infection. that Something worse is happening. And then I finally realized, oh, I managed to get a virus on top of everything else. And so I just was feeling gross. And that day, our friends came to visit So that was on like a Saturday.
00:10:50
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So by um they left on a Tuesday and Isaac's nephew and his girlfriend came in on Friday. And so we just barely had a couple of days to reset the house. And the morning that his nephew came in, Isaac went down sick.
00:11:07
Speaker
Oh, Yeah. So he missed the first couple of days. But um it was really lovely to host them. It means the world to me when family is able to come out or make some time to visit. We haven't seen a lot of family since we moved here. And I think it's understandable. We are very far away.
00:11:28
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But it just makes it that much more special when they do make the effort to come out. And this nephew has only been out one other time in the 10 years that we've been here. So it's It was really nice to have time with him.
00:11:38
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And i have a question that kind of surfaced out of this. I've been wanting to be really intentional about our, like a guest book, like logging memories of people that we're hosting, especially in this house, because we've had a lot more opportunities. And so thinking of doing like some sort of like guest book kind of deal, but i don't know, like I immediately go to like a wedding guest book where you just like write on a line or whatever. And it's just not as exciting to me. I would really like to have like,
00:12:12
Speaker
have you like I thought about using cork board that has a map on it and you can put a little pin from where you came from. But then like I really want like names and ages of the kids and maybe our favorite thing that we did together so that you know it's more than just a pin poked in Oklahoma. So do you have any ideas?
00:12:34
Speaker
Yes, I do. i love that idea though, first of all. And I love that you've just been hosting so much. Like I just know that that's something that you love to do And I love that being in this new house is giving you the opportunity to do
Cultural Significance of Community in Scripture
00:12:48
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that. It's just great to see, but yes.
00:12:51
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ah My immediate thought is get a corkboard. Love that idea. But instead of the map, get a Polaroid camera and do Polaroid pictures of all your guests. And then on the bottom part, like the white part, they can write their names and like the dates that they were there and age and like maybe, you know, their favorite memory or something like that.
00:13:12
Speaker
Oh, love that. i actually already have. Oh, when I say I mean my kids, my girls already have one of those like mini Polaroid cameras. So I'm halfway there. So would I like so instead of a map, just pin it to the corkboard and just kind of make like a collage of pictures.
00:13:31
Speaker
That's what I would do. I think that would be cute. Okay. I like that. And then I could always get a map guess too. Yeah. You could always get a map too and put the Polaroids on the map if you wanted to do both.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. You have a lot of people though coming from one area, it might, it might clutter up that with the Polaroids. Oklahoma is going to be real heavy.
00:13:55
Speaker
ah That's true. Then I could spread it out and it would make more sense. Yeah. Okay. You've given me a lot to think of. I really want to do something that I can put in one of our guest bedrooms because I think that would be fun to be able to look at and see other people and fill up an empty wall.
00:14:12
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Totally. Well, you've solved the world's problems for me. i am good. Thank you. Great. You're any anytime. and I'm here to help. Okay. I will say, i love it. I'm just noticing because we're doing this. And so I'll just name it in case anyone notices as well. It is usually we talk way more conversationally because we're in person and it's like,
00:14:36
Speaker
you know, like I'll laugh or say something in the background, even though, you know, i'll be like, yes, that's a good idea, but you'll continue. And I'm noticing that on this recording, if I talk at the same time, joy talks, it gets a little glitchy and I think vice versa. So we're being really intentional to be quiet while the other person is. And so that's a little bit different than our style, but it's fine. Just deal with it.
00:15:00
Speaker
We're laughing on the inside. Just to assume that we are. I'm vigorously nodding my head.
00:15:11
Speaker
Instead of the, yes, oh I love that. I'm just nodding my head like a crazy person. Maybe we'll show you the video. We can actually record it and send it out. so yeah. Bye.
00:15:25
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i
00:15:29
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Okay, let's dive in. let's let's dive in
00:15:40
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Today is a bonus episode and we have not had a chance to talk about a book that we have been reading in our book club recently. And I'm really excited about this one because there is a part that we'll get to that really made our book club like a hundred times more meaningful. And spoiler alert, think we found a way to include you listeners in our book club if you want to, but we'll talk about that more later.
00:16:06
Speaker
yeah Anyways, yeah so we've mentioned this book before. it's called Sitting at the Feet of Rabbi Jesus. It's by Anne Spangler and Lois, oh, I don't know how to say It's a T-V the beginning. It's forb care for to to Verberg.
00:16:26
Speaker
i don't know That. That. And I think the sub, but nope, not subtitle. Yes, subtitle. Is that the name? I think the subtitle is really important. It says how the Jewishness of Jesus can transform your faith, which is very applicable for this book.
00:16:49
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Oh. Okay.
00:16:55
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Okay.
00:17:06
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I think that that is that subtitle is, it basically sums up the book and it was phenomenal. We loved this book as a book club. It was so, so good. And I think it was just really impactful to learn about how Judaism did play a big role in you know how Jesus spoke and the parables he told and some of the things that happened. and ah Understanding that gives you just a bit of a deeper understanding.
00:17:38
Speaker
of the Bible. So I really loved it. And if it's okay, I'll start with some of my takeaways. Joy is nodding. So, okay. So one of my biggest takeaways was arguing about scripture was a natural practice back in the day that the Pharisees and Sadducees, but really all people, because especially men, all of them studied the Bible or scripture, I'll say, because it's the Torah scripture. ah But
00:18:18
Speaker
and so And they all memorized it. And so the way they thought that the way that they learned about it was by arguing, basically, and that that strengthened their understanding. And there's lots of you know quotes throughout the book. like There's rabbi um rabbi who mourned fiercely when his opponent his biggest opponent that he would argue with all the time passed away because he was like, how will i learn or continue to grow now that I don't have anyone to disagree with me? So I think that that just speaks to the culture and how they live. When we read these stories and we read how the Pharisees are talking to Jesus or to one another and how Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, that we can tend to think they hated each other, that that they were so opposed to each other.
00:19:22
Speaker
And they were so like at arms with each other, but in actuality, they that was just part of their practice and they were challenging each other to grow. And it's just different than our Western society where, you know, talking to each other like that would signal that we really just don't get along. But...
00:19:45
Speaker
And there are there are times, yes, when Jesus is calling them a group people. I don't think that he was like having like a good, challenging conversation with them. But there's a lot of debates in the Bible where it's like they're just challenging each other. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they're arguing or fighting. It's just how they discussed the scripture in order to grow, which I thought was really cool.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I love the value that it puts on thinking, you know, like it's not just it's not just yes, we're all here to be yes men and just, you know, cheer you along and do whatever you say. But we're actually oh encouraged to think and respond.
00:20:27
Speaker
and maybe even push back if that's if we don't fully understand it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. it was it's it It did make me look at, you know, because there are times that when our friends get together or we're, you know, doing a Bible study or we're having Shabbat dinner, we're talking about something, especially if we're talking about end times, like an argument can can break out because we all have a little bit of a different idea of that.
00:20:57
Speaker
you know, scripture that we're talking about or that
Equality and Community in Modern Contexts
00:21:00
Speaker
theology or doctrine. And so it's never a salvation issue ever that we're arguing you about, but like, you know, we will start to get into something and I always get nervous or I'm like, Oh, you know, maybe that means I don't have an understanding as much as they do or vice versa or, you know, whatever. And it's like, no, no This is actually good. This is strengthening our argument, but also our understanding. So it's kind of shifted that for me.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah. As a recovering people pleaser, it's so uncomfortable for me. Yeah. But I am growing and I can handle it. And it's a good reminder that just because i don't understand or i want to question something doesn't make me bad, you know? Right.
00:21:49
Speaker
um and to make And that it's I have a valuable opinion. I think it brings more value to each person in the conversation because they're not immediately discrediting somebody. And yeah um we can learn when we feel valued, when we feel seen. And, you know, i I'm quickest to check out mentally when I am being taught and my voice doesn't matter or I don't get to ask any questions and I'm just expected to be a spectator, then I generally won't pay attention.
00:22:22
Speaker
But if I'm expected to be a participant and my voice is valuable, that brings so much more value and worth to me and buy-in that I'm here to learn so much more.
00:22:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. What other notes do you have? Yeah. i So, oh, okay. This I really love, but rabbis were expected to become living examples of God's word by being so saturated with scripture that it poured out of every area of their lives. And so disciples would follow them so that they could learn not just scripture,
00:23:05
Speaker
not just like from what they said or what they taught about scripture, but so that they could learn scripture by how it was being applied through the life of the rabbi.
00:23:17
Speaker
And man, that, first of all, it's beautiful. I love, she those are her words, that being so saturated with scripture. Like, yes, please, God, I want to be so saturated with scripture that my life is almost like an applied scripture that people could learn about Jesus through my life. I'm nowhere near there yet, but like, that's so beautiful. and I don't know. it just, it you know, i mean, Joy, going back to our discipleship program that we are going to be writing, like, you know, is there some following people around that we put in there? Oh, cool. really interesting. Yeah.
00:24:01
Speaker
I mean, my favorite quote in that area or in that part of the book was talking about how you're supposed to get the dust of your rabbi all over you. Like you're yeah literally following them so close that the dust that they're kicking up just doing life is all over your clothes.
00:24:17
Speaker
I've actually had this thought in in light of writing a discipleship program and also just in general, but I wonder if we, like, there's, it seems to me there's no other way to do it. You know, like, that's what I've been thinking about is like, like, I don't know that we can superficially skip this step. I think that there has to be some sort of following around. I have no idea what that looks like in today. I'll be right back.
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know what that would look like either. You know, i mean, because I do think that there's some that we can talk about that that can be just a classroom style. You know, when we were talking about how to study the Bible or, you know, we can, similar to what we did with our life group where we were doing that fasting group, we could teach about fasting and then do some fasting together. But like,
00:25:27
Speaker
Or we could teach some of like the like apostolic practices and stuff. But I do agree that there needs to be some kind of an element of following someone around a little bit. But like, like, what does that, you know, or
Personal Reflections and Spiritual Practices
00:25:42
Speaker
hey, you want to come and follow me around at work or do errands with me? Like, what is it one day a week? Are you moving in? Like, what what what does that look like in in today's world? I don't know.
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, I like the little, well, as our as our counselor would say, the little bits of butter. Yeah, it feels like an i I am also recovering all or nothing-er person, right? Whatever. Anyways. And so i start to get into the all or nothing. But yeah, I do think that there is like that component of little bits and then checking in with each other. That definitely would be helpful. I also think it's important that you brought that up because i do want to acknowledge that we are very aware of practicing the ways discipleship curriculum. And so we're not trying to discredit that at all. They've done a wonderful job and there's a lot of really great um stuff that we've even benefited from and and gone through as well. And so I think what we're talking about is a little bit different, not a ton different, but a little bit different. And and we are thankful for that resource. I didn't want anyone to be like, oh my gosh, like that's already been done. Like we're looking at a little bit differently, but that doesn't make that one bad. That's a great resource. I love it.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah, but they don't have a Bible study one, do they? Yeah, they well, they have a reading scriptures. I haven't gone through it, so I don't know if they get into, you know, like what you were talking about with like the hermeneutics of it all. I'm not sure.
00:27:17
Speaker
Actually, i am real-time fact-checking myself. I have done it. Oh.
00:27:26
Speaker
Impactful, huh? It was that memorable. Yeah.
00:27:32
Speaker
Shoot. um i did it I did it on Zoom with a group that was not local, and I missed half of them. And our kids were like screaming in the hallways the two times that we were able to jump on. and i And that is it is not the fault of the curriculum.
00:27:53
Speaker
It just was a bad setup for us. So I don't remember. I'm so sorry. But I don't remember. I definitely...
00:28:02
Speaker
Again, real-time fact-checking myself. I think I can say with authority that there were not hermeneutics in it. Yeah. And getting into a little bit more of the details and...
00:28:17
Speaker
Well, they i know that they believe in the Holy Spirit and they're led by the Holy Spirit. There wasn't a lot of conversation about that within it that I think that we would bring in more and it would just be it would just be different. Not in a bad way, just different. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:34
Speaker
So there was that. Then also I have like just how, you know, they talked a lot about – the not really hermeneutics, but like the process of um some of the customs around how Jews and rabbis at the time studied the scriptures. And, you know, first she was talking a lot about, or I should say they, because it was two authors, but they were talking a lot about how a lot of the parables that Jesus taught
00:29:07
Speaker
were like, would call back to Old Testament stories in ways that might not be totally obvious. And so going back and really knowing the Old Testament is really helpful for knowing some of the meanings that are hidden behind those parables.
00:29:25
Speaker
But like then getting into some of their study, the big, they she talked about a different, a couple of different kinds of study techniques that rabbis had, but the one that stood out to me the most, and I used it in last week's episode actually, is Gezara Shavah. I'm not sure if I'm saying that totally right, but it's the rule called comparison of equals, which is that you can use one passage to expand on another as long as it uses the same word. the So last week I did it with 99, right? In the Old Testament, there was that one verse that said, at ninety nine Abraham was 99.
00:30:06
Speaker
and then And this is like Abraham was 99 when God made the covenant with him. So it's a it's a big marker. But then i tied it to the New Testament when Jesus says he will leave the 99.
00:30:22
Speaker
You know, the shepherd would even leave the 99 to go and find the one lost. Right. I was like, i because it's the same word, 99 in both, they would say that you could link those two passages to expand on each other. And that's how I got, is it possible that Jesus was also saying, not only will he leave his flock who are believers to go and find the one who's lost, but he would even leave Abraham, the the founding father of Israel, to to come and find the lost.
00:30:52
Speaker
Yes, I love that. I think that's so, it just adds so much more depth to the the one that um that they're talking about as opposed to the 99. And that it takes away all those values. Like we talk about often here that we're living in an an upside down kingdom where the last will be first and the you know the the servant is greater than the master kind of a thing. And that just goes back to that again. yeah.
00:31:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think that that's super helpful. i do want to say a caveat is that in our translations of the Bible, and sometimes we'll have the same word in the Old Testament and the New Testament that is different in Hebrew like versus Greek. So for example, like the word love, is there's one English word, but then there's three, four.
00:31:40
Speaker
but i should know this from the C.S. Lewis book. There's four different... And not and not just not just between Greek and Hebrew either, but like Hebrew, love means, like a lot of Hebrew is used, ah like the same word will be changed within, like with its context. And so they knew definitions based on context sometimes. And so in Hebrew, it's like, you know, there's abiding in, and then there's like a romantic love. And then there's, you know, there's different types of love that it's talking about, which is why,
00:32:15
Speaker
The Strong's Concordance would be an amazing thing to use because it does you can look up a word in a verse. like If i we were reading one and it was talking about love, I could look up that verse, the love that's in that verse, and then it would give me all the other instances in the Bible where that specific love is instead of just you going off of the English word.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yes. And Blue Letter Bible is another one. And that's an online resource that's free. And you can look up each verse and then you can find the words that are used in each verse. And then there's hyperlinks as well. And I think Strong's Concordance is actually included in that. I'll link it in the show notes.
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's some strong concordance in there as well. Really good. I just, I forgot, but there's another free resource that we learned from one of our son's friends who was here visiting and I really loved it. And I can't remember for the life of me what it is. So I'll have to reach out to him and ask him, but it was really good.
00:33:12
Speaker
Is it the, I want to say lexicon Bible. That's not it. Okay. No, it's i mean it's a it's a web website online and it's really good.
00:33:26
Speaker
Okay. Any other big takeaways? Yeah. Two. One that we both wanted to talk about, which is this is where it introduces the topic of Havram. And the Havram is like defined in the book as a group of people who do life together and study the gospel. And well, not the gospel, the the Torah, because this was back in before the gospel was here.
00:33:52
Speaker
But, uh, And the way that they talked about it, the way that they talked about how these people would push each other to grow, not just in their lives, but in their in their study and in their knowledge. and But like the closeness that they had with each other, i think we all in our book club at the same time like looked around and we were like,
00:34:17
Speaker
That's what this is. i think I'll speak for myself, but I think everyone echoed this. For a while, I had been feeling like every time I called it a book club, I was like, that's not it really. it's not like There's something more that we've created here and I was having a hard time and this is what it is. it's It is a life group that we have created around books that we talk about, but we are doing all of these things. We're challenging each other to grow in our walks with God and our in our lives, in our within ourselves and in our relationship with God. And it's just been really beautiful.
00:34:56
Speaker
Yes. So we've adopted that word, Havaram. We're not even sure if we're saying it right, but we're going to pretend like we are. But I just wanted to read a couple of quotes from the chapter entitled, Get Yourself Some Havaram. Yeah.
00:35:09
Speaker
Which when I read it, I was like, what a weird title. I have no idea what that means. But ah one of the things they say is Here, Haberam means someone who is willing to partner with you in grappling with scripture and with the rabbinic texts. So again, there's that idea of your words are valuable and to contribute and that this is a safe place that we can grapple with these scriptures and try and work together. And there's been times that we have in our book club, or Haberam,
00:35:43
Speaker
um we have said like, I don't know, what did you think about this? And we kind of have gone back and forth and some people had like different views of it. And then all, and it feels like all of a sudden we all kind of like sync up and we're like, oh, that's what it is. That's what's so powerful. They also talk about the verse in Matthew 18, 20, where two or three gather in my name, there I am with them. And they said more than just, um You know, like when me pray, we need to get more than one person to come with us and pray. But since Jesus is himself, I'm actually reading from the book. Since Jesus is himself the word of God, it makes sense that he would promise to be present as we come together to study scriptures. And then skipping down a couple sentences, Jesus implies that his presence will be felt most often in the presence of a small group of Havarim. Okay.
00:36:39
Speaker
which just brings so much more power. And I feel like we've we've experienced that without even knowing this word, but understanding that that community aspect that we can't we just can't live without and we definitely feel God's presence more in our times together, I think.
00:36:59
Speaker
Totally. And I think like what's what is interesting to me too is that you know we, especially in the West, we tend to think that we need to study the scripture alone, you know, with so much of our alone time, which is great too. But I think that we, this is a part that we do neglect, that we don't come together in community ah to read the scripture together and to kind of grapple with it together. It's it's like, no, that that'll be for me in my alone time in the morning. And that's my private time with God. And like I said, great to do that, but I think it needs to be both.
00:37:39
Speaker
Yeah. and And they do stress that there needs to be trust within the group that whatever is expressed or shared in the group is going to stay in that group. It's not going to be gossiped about and used later on. And we've literally, before we even read this book, had those conversations like this is a safe place so that you can share whatever you need to share. And and no, we're not just going to go take it and use that against you somewhere else. And I think that that is a really important component. If you are thinking, oh, I need to find my own Havram. Like definitely we were pretty picky about and by picky, I mean really careful to follow the Holy Spirit's leading and not just logically pick the people that we thought needed to be in it. And I'm taking credit, but really this is all Gretchen.
00:38:27
Speaker
It's true, though. Anyways, but there but um as the Holy Spirit was leading us to different people, it was there was definitely a commonality of trust among them that has made this so much more meaningful for us.
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, totally. It's really been, mean, has been life-changing. It's really been, love, it's like my favorite part of the week when we get together.
00:38:58
Speaker
Yes, for sure. Okay. You have one more. One more. And this has been the most impactful. And I think I've talked about it a little bit on some of the other episodes, but the Barakas. It's okay. So it's B-R-A-H-K-H-A-S,
00:39:13
Speaker
right? So Barakas and it's tiny prayers or blessings. And that you said that you say throughout the day. And so like this was a tradition. it still is a tradition for a lot of Jews, but it's, they all start the same.
00:39:31
Speaker
It's all, blessed are you, Lord our God, King of the universe, who brings forth or who. and And they say it, literally the first thing that they say when they wake up in the morning and they open their eyes is, blessed are you, Lord our God, King of the universe, who returns my soul to me after sleeping. And blessed are you, Lord, our God, King of the universe, who it has the rooster crow when it's light out, you know, to wake me up. And just like they have one that's, you know, for when they go to the bathroom, like, thank you for, or like, blessed are you for, you know, making my body work in a certain way, like the, how it's supposed to, or like, blessed are you for clothing my nakedness when they get dressed. So it's all these things that, you
00:40:17
Speaker
I think one is we take for granted, you know, they they're doing it for all these little things. But also what I love about it is, you know, she she says in the book that the word for bless, so these brachas are called like tiny blessings, but the the other word for bless in Hebrew is also to kneel. So it's like these little opportunities that we can have throughout the day to kneel before the Lord And it's not just saying, thank you for this, God. like thank you that it's like
00:40:51
Speaker
That is almost like we're putting the emphasis on the thing. you know like Thank you for my husband. Yes. But like the way that this is worded, blessed are you, Lord, our God, for giving me my husband. you know It's like...
00:41:06
Speaker
it's It puts the emphasis on God who was the creator of that thing and refocuses us so that we don't make an idol out of that thing, which I think was just really beautiful. Yes. And this is something that we have found that applies or is easier to do when you have your Havram in the sense that we can keep each other accountable. And so whether it's a good day or a really hard day, we can nudge each other. And usually it's just over a text message, but we can remind each other of a blessing in that moment.
00:41:40
Speaker
And I love that refocusing constantly to say it's always going back to God as our provider or the the source of these things so that we're not making the thing itself an idol, like you said. And then what was the other part? Something about or reminding remembering that he is our judge.
00:42:02
Speaker
Can you yeah elaborate on that? Yeah. Yeah, there was there was one part that they were saying, even when something is going wrong. And she gave an example of, ah you know, like if a war is happening or if a trauma or something like that, they'll say something like, blessed are you, Lord, our God, King of the universe, who is the one true judge. And one, it's like finding the gratitude in those hard times.
00:42:30
Speaker
But two, what a great way for Joy's favorite topic to remember to surrender, you know, that he is the one true judge. So it doesn't matter what is happening here. Like he's going to take care of it. You know, you can kind of let go. i And I just thought that was super impactful.
00:42:50
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It actually, so the phrase, bless the beginning of it, blessed are you, Lord, our God, King of the universe, who is really familiar to us because in our practices of Sabbath, we have learned this ah this is a traditional Sabbath practice. You begin your Sabbath meal with a blessing over the candles, a blessing over the bread and a blessing over the wine. And and so we had learned it and our pastors led the way on this one in learning it both in English as well as in Hebrew.
00:43:27
Speaker
is that right? And so it became kind of like this well-worn path in our brains that before we begin the Sabbath meal, this is our reminder to to bring blessings to God. And then in the book, they elaborated and explained that at the Last Supper,
00:43:47
Speaker
Jesus is doing this as he is blessing over the bread and blessing over the wine. And the the translation gets it a little off and says something along the lines of like he blessed the food. And really what he was doing was he was doing a baraka. Is that how we're calling it?
00:44:08
Speaker
Baraka's. And he was just continually remembering or putting himself in a place of surrender and saying, blessed are you, Lord, our God, who brings this food from the earth, who brings the wine from the vine, who gives us light. And it actually kind of.
00:44:27
Speaker
from there kind of snowballed into what a lot of people believe we're supposed to do before all of our meals. We're supposed to bless the food. And really the focus and what Jesus was modeling for us was not to bless the food. It was to continually go back and get our eyes fixed back on Jesus or God as the source of the food. and that And that spirit of gratitude.
00:44:52
Speaker
And I thought that that was really helpful because, you know, you can get off in the weeds on semantics of like, when do I pray and when do I not pray for my food? And that's actually not even the point is what we're finding here is that it's about getting your eyes fixed back on Jesus and fixed back on God as your source every time.
00:45:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's been really, really, really helpful for me. And I've, I love it. It's my favorite part of the book. Yes. So good. Well, I'm not going to spend too much time on my part because i on my other podcast, The Mentor's Table, loved the chapter about it or titled At Table with the Rabbi. And it just went into great depth about the value and the power of a table. um You know, a table has always been really fascinating to me. And and i wasn't necessarily able to articulate why, but obviously i named my other podcast with table in it. So it meant something.
00:45:55
Speaker
And this book has helped me really understand why i do feel so drawn to a table. And it talks about Well, I just one basic principle of a table is that it's kind of the great equalizer. Like when everybody sits down to eat at a table, it doesn't matter what your social status is It doesn't matter how much money you made. It doesn't matter who, you know, everyone just needs to eat. We're all hungry. And we can come to this place that no matter how much we agree or disagree, there's a place that we all have the same need. And we can all come together and we all get that need met at the same place. And I think that that is really powerful.
00:46:35
Speaker
But I go into depth teaching about this chapter about the table. And so I'll just link that in the show notes if you want to hear that. But they are talking about how the table is looked at as a oath of protection.
00:46:49
Speaker
That whoever you invite to your table, you are honor bound to protect that person when they are in your home. And they give an example that even like when you leave, they like escort you out and make sure that you're protected on your way out of your home as well.
00:47:05
Speaker
I will just say for that part, like my big realization in that was the story with Lot, which always bothered me. like Lot had these you know two angels in his house and then people come and bang on the door and want the angels to be sent out. And instead, Lot offers his daughters. And i was like,
00:47:25
Speaker
Rude, lot. But this made me understand that like these angels were a guest at his table, which made him, he was honor bound to protect their lives with his life or you know with his daughters at that point. But like ah i it just made me understand that a little bit more, like that was the custom. And that was helpful for me because I really always struggled with that story.
00:47:52
Speaker
Yes, for sure. It also, i mean, it's a place where it's an invitation to relationship because you have the mutual trust and vulnerability that happens at a table. And so going off of what you're saying...
00:48:09
Speaker
When we think about a table as being a place where you're honor bound to protect the person that you've invited to the table, it's a place of mutual trust and vulnerability. Then a scripture like Psalm 23, where the Bible says that God prepares a table for us in the midst of our enemies, just opens up all sorts of new meanings. understanding that he is honor bound to protect us. He's not just like, oh, I see you're hungry here. I'll take care of you. But he's like, here, come here because now I'm honor bound to protect you. This is a place that you can be vulnerable and you can be safe, even in the midst of your enemies, even in the midst of this hard situation that you're in. And I think that that is so powerful. It also talks about how it
00:48:52
Speaker
It also talks about how a table represents like an altar um in the house. And it's a place where we can offer, like we were talking about with the blessings, you can offer your blessing or your sacrifice of praise to God. And i think that that's beautiful. But then also they take it a step further and say that if your table is an altar, then those of you who are the host, whether the parents or the host in the house, you are now representatives of priests. who are bringing people to this altar and offering these sacrifices of praise. And I think that that is powerful and just puts a lot more responsibility on us in a good way to to be intentionable intentional with our time around the table and not just you know bring screens or ignore one another and like do our homework or whatever. I'm talking as a parent of teenagers right now, but... insert whatever it is that's a distraction at your at your table. And then it also talked about how tables are a place of where covenants of reconciliation happen. And so in ancient Eastern tradition,
00:50:07
Speaker
when you had some sort of an offense with somebody else, if they invited you to come and eat with them, they were inviting you to say like, hey, let's have a meal together. And when we take our first bite, we're setting aside our offenses and we're never picking them up again. And um i just...
00:50:29
Speaker
I just get excited thinking about like, what if we did this today? Like what if we committed to laying down our offenses when we have people over and not picking them up again? Like how much how much more powerful could the kingdom of God be in evangelizing to others if that was the model that we lived out?
00:50:54
Speaker
I also was thinking in my, and kind of fleshing out my podcast, If you consider your social media platform to be a virtual table of sorts, it adds another layer of responsibility. And that's why I call my podcast The Mentor's Table, because I like this idea of a group of people coming together and sharing and interacting and having a conversation, not just the monologue. but then also this idea of we're doing life together. We're in this community together.
00:51:26
Speaker
And i think that if we were to hold the same level of sacredness with our social media posts as a virtual table where communities are getting together, then we could, again, be so much more effective for the kingdom if we didn't bring our offenses and we honored the other voices that were there. You know, like all the things that social media is just rife with division and fighting and all these different things. And we could instead create places where people are trusted and valued and protected and have these conversations that I think are really important. We could We could change the world, guys. We could change the world. That's what we're supposed to do.
00:52:15
Speaker
Yes, I agree. I love that. Okay. We have barely scratched the surface of all that's in this book. So we have much, much more. and I really think that i we highly recommend this one. this one Yes, it's so good.
00:52:34
Speaker
Go back, read it, buy it. We'll put a link in the show notes. But this is this is one. Oh, and i was just noticing if you have a Kindle and you have Kindle Unlimited, I'm pretty sure this one is actually free on Kindle Unlimited right now. I think it is. I think I got it for free. So yeah, yeah really good.
00:52:51
Speaker
Yeah, so you guys can take advantage of that if you don't want to buy the paperback version, which is only, I think, like $9. Yeah. And Joy teased this in the beginning, but we did find a way because because our haverim our book club has been so impactful for us. We wanted to figure out a way, you know especially since we're talking about these books once a month with y'all, we wanted to find a way to be able to include you a little bit more instead of just you passively listening. And so we found this app, it's called Fable, and it's basically like an online book club.
00:53:28
Speaker
and If you, we created a book club, it's called as we grow book club. So we will, we will post a link to this on our Instagram page. So if you want to join, just be on the lookout for that. I will probably do like a video tutorial or something, but you just go to fable, go to the link, you join the book club, and then each month it will list the book that we are reading.
00:53:58
Speaker
And it's really cool because it breaks it up in into all the different chapters. And then so you can post in each chapter section what your takeaways were or any insights that you had. You can create little quote cards. I'm doing it with another ah book club and I'm really loving it. So i I think that this would be really great for all of you guys. And then um That way you can kind of be involved in the conversations that we have and we can pull from what you guys are talking about when we're talking about the book each month on the podcast. And it would really be great if you all joined because then we could have a little bit We're just, Joy and I are really wanting to make this, you know, like everything that she was saying about social media and everything, we want to make this more of a community. We don't want us to just be speaking into the void. And so we thought that this would be an amazing way for you guys to join in with us and join our book club community.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah, and we're going to try really hard to get the rest of our Haberim to add stuff there too. So you can kind of get to know them as well. And the beautiful thing about this is if you're listening to this in real time, um you may be able to follow along at the same time as us. But if you're not, you can always, like these books always stay open. These discussions always stay open. So if you're listening to this a year later and you just got the book and you start reading through it, still go through and comment within the chapters of what stood out to you and we'll see it and we'll be able to continue that conversation. And I think it's really good because it helps me to have reminders because i get so much out of our book clubs. And then it feels like the next day it all just like falls out of my head.
00:55:48
Speaker
and Yeah. Yeah. If I am, if I have a chance to have like notifications pop up and I go back to books that we've read it I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. And I find, i think the Holy Spirit is always on this, but it always pops up at exactly the time that I need to be reminded of that thing, you know? yeah so Yes. Yes.
00:56:11
Speaker
Don't miss your opportunity to speak into our lives as well by adding into it. yeah Can we add Sitting at the Feet of Rabbi Jesus? Or are we going to start with, that was our January book club book, or do we want to start with our February one?
00:56:27
Speaker
Yeah, we're going to start with our February one, which is Captivating by, i think it's Stassi. Stassi and John Eldridge. Okay. So you can look and find that and I'll link it in the show notes. And then like Gretchen said, we'll get on Instagram and have a video there that you can, a tutorial that you can look at. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:52
Speaker
and start reading along with us and we'll try and do better with picking books and posting them right away so that you have time to read with us if you want to or very soon afterwards
00:57:08
Speaker
All right. Let's get into confessions. Oh, yes. So I'll go first. Speaking of almost dying in my car, ah I had a friend point out to me as I was sharing my story with her. She was like, oh, um do you think that there's like a spiritual component to you wearing tight clothes or heavy jewelry and having that affect your body? Because that's what i originally thought triggered it because that has bothered me so much in the past. And i was like, oh, that's a great question.
00:57:46
Speaker
I've never thought to pray about it and ask God. I've always just, you know, decided or logicked it out in my head or considered it too small. Like it goes away when I, you know, change clothes or whatever. so Why would I take that to God? And so my my confession is I'm just beginning to see some of the blind spots and the things that I have deemed too small, quote unquote, too small for God and not taking them to God and trying to fix them myself. And I really, yeah, I really want to start seeing more and more of those little things and take advantage of that opportunity to ask him about it.
00:58:25
Speaker
So. ah yeah
00:58:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:35
Speaker
okay okay Yeah. Mine is, I actually mentioned it or you mentioned it in last week's episode or pointed out to me, that could be your confession. And then I went with a different confession last week. And so I am bringing it this week, but it was I was talking about dance dance worship and you know how I get in my head about what people are going to think. And so it really is just that I've let fear of man sometimes get in the way of my worship of the Lord. So yikes.
00:59:15
Speaker
Those are going to be real pitchy laughs for you guys. Sorry. ah All right. well Bye. Bye.
00:59:25
Speaker
Like Sharon said.