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Episode 10 - Twitch Hot tubs & Mass Effect Legendary Edition Review
11 Plays4 years ago
Recorded live on 5/18/21 @ twitch.tv/addtoparty
This week the boys discuss ethics in games journalism, the twitch hot tub meta, & Mass Effect Legendary reviews
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Introductions
00:00:16
Speaker
Welcome to Add to Party, a friendship simulator masquerading as a new show. I'm your host, James Hartwell, and I'm joined by Charles Umont, and I'm joined by Andy K.
00:00:29
Speaker
How are we doing, gentlemen? So my bath really hurts. OK. And I don't know why.
Neck Pain and Causes
00:00:37
Speaker
Like as of as of one hour ago, I can't look up without being in extreme pain. That's that seems bad.
00:00:46
Speaker
I don't know what I did and I'm just sitting here for the last hour. I've been sitting here trying to think what would make me throw out like my neck back like it's not my back back. It's like my neck back. I think we've we've we dialed into this last week, but I think we're coming back to your chair sucks and.
00:01:09
Speaker
This has nothing to do with the chair. That $50 is worth it. No. Oh, hey, it was like a $200 chair. I just got it. Oh, I don't know what to do. Like, I'm trying to do stretches, but I don't know what stretches you do for your neck back. What do you do? Let's let's let's demystify this part real quick. Neck back.
00:01:38
Speaker
what are you saying the back of your neck no i'm talking about like the part it's like my back right it's it's my back right below my neck it's not like my neck it's so that is a specific muscle group let's go let's look at the term that's what it's called
00:02:02
Speaker
It's like I'm so aware of it and it really hurts. The trapezius. Oh, my God. Well, how do I fix it? And what did I do to break it? I don't know. Break is a strong word. If we want to really actually find useful things, we probably shouldn't search break.
00:02:25
Speaker
But stretching is good. Some things that are useful for that is actually, you know, when you look down, you put your chin to your chest. Of course. Now, you know, have you ever tried putting your hands behind your head when you do it and kind of pulled down slightly to feel a stretch? No, let's try this. That is a good stretch. Listeners at home and viewers of live. Let's all Oh, I feel like I'm
00:02:54
Speaker
What am I unlocking here? What I would recommend, based on my experience, completely not a doctor.
00:03:08
Speaker
Is laying on the edge of your bed with so your shoulders and head hang off it and then also your arms hanging off it and kind of just let it stretch down towards the floor. So like facing up in the bed and then just kind of lean backwards and let and let your neck and arm stretch over your head down towards the floor. OK, I haven't thought of any of these things prior to this, so I appreciate it.
00:03:35
Speaker
Well, I won't try now because there's a cord on this microphone, but I will be trying afterwards. Thank you very
Daily Routine and Stargazing
00:03:42
Speaker
much. What were you doing today? Was anything special? Did you sit in a certain way? I worked. That's it. That's all I did. Okay.
00:03:54
Speaker
This is what happens when you work out and sit at a desk. I've never had this type of pain. That's why it's on my mind. I've never had this type of pain. I wouldn't be able to watch a comet. I wouldn't be able to. Why is that where your mind goes immediately? I don't know. Like why else would you look up? You can't look at an eclipse, but you can look at a comet. You got a plane flying in the sky. I don't think about that.
00:04:22
Speaker
I think about the comments. In a nice romantic way, Andy and I have gone stargazing. That is true. And stargazing is actually a very judicious use of the term, just because really it's more like when there are astrological events that go on and they show up on the news, we go, you should go see that.
00:04:51
Speaker
And we go we look outside. Yeah, that's good. And then we go back inside after like 10 minutes. Well, I can't do that. Well, is there any coming up? I don't think so. I know that you're safe. Well, that's safe. Well, you better get stretching that way. Oh, I better. I'll lay off the side of my bed.
00:05:11
Speaker
Well, thank you for the coaching me through that, because this is I'm thinking about this a lot right now. I'm even like leaning towards my microphone and what is it called? The trapeze, the Tripoli, the trapezius, the trapezius. It's all messed up. Well, Andy, you know what you should be thinking about?
00:05:31
Speaker
Take my mind off of it. Take me away, James.
IGN Charity Post Controversy
00:05:35
Speaker
Ethics in games journalism. Oh, God. Oh, no. No, no, no. Yeah, it's back, baby. But this time it's not about abusing women. Getting away with it.
00:05:53
Speaker
It's about trouble in the Middle East, which we are going to tiptoe around. Yes, we are not going to focus on the actual conflict itself. Yeah, because we're cowards, one and be none of us are qualified to talk about it. Not at all. I've tried to do more. I've tried to do more research on it. I just don't understand it. I just don't get it.
00:06:21
Speaker
But what we can have on uninformed and hot take opinions on is games journalism. There we go
00:06:32
Speaker
So I'm kind of paraphrasing from an article from fan bite that kind of summarizes this whole thing, but late last week IGN put up a charity page linking to a Palestinian child charity, more or less saying like, you know, help out their children being displaced or injured doing the ongoing conflict right now.
00:06:56
Speaker
Uh, and everyone went cool for the most part. Um, Saturday things got a little weird. It disappeared from the website. Like a 404 arrow page just came up and that's just nothing else.
00:07:14
Speaker
uh and then no one at IGN kind of knew what happened and then Sunday night a tweet went up on the IGN's account trying to explain what happened and more or less saying to the effect of
00:07:28
Speaker
Well, you know, this one specific charity doesn't coincide with our beliefs. And in fact, we want to save children everywhere. So we're donating $25,000 to save the children. And that's that. It wasn't.
00:07:48
Speaker
Because what then happened was, I believe it was late Monday, I think. Yeah, it was late Monday, yesterday. IGN, a number of IGN writers, editors, and staff signed a letter basically saying that they did not write that second message.
00:08:12
Speaker
They stand by their original message for the first charity, and that this was an incredible overreach by Ziff Davis and J2 Global, who are the owners of IGN, to basically impede on the journalistic integrity of IGN by changing the message or removing the message of something they disagreed with.
00:08:34
Speaker
This comes up a lot in, you know, real news, right, where corporate entities that own news organizations. Like Jeff Bezos, I don't remember, I think he is a majority shareholder, or at least a majority owner of the Washington Post. He does not interact with what the Washington Post reports on.
00:08:56
Speaker
Um, he does not have any opinion. He does not have any discussion about, you know, what they can or cannot say. So what we had here was a journalistic organization make a post about a charity. And then they had their corporate ownership, disagree with that, remove it and put out a lot. Yeah. And here we are talking about ethics and games journalism again.
00:09:28
Speaker
I'm glad there's a warning. Yeah. And I want to call out, though, that that article they post, they post it. It was an open letter. They posted a medium that was signed by a lot of the staff, the staff that match their names to a call out. I want to. I'm eyeballing it right now.
00:09:50
Speaker
I want to say it's it's north of like 30 to 40 people. And it includes, you know, heavy hitters like Brian Altano. Let's see. I only know Max Goldville. Max Goldville. Yeah. From Detroit. Lucy O'Brien. Zachary Ryan. Yeah. Brian McCaffrey. These are, you know, well-known names in the industry. Can you scroll down actually for the signed after post? Sure.
00:10:19
Speaker
I mean, you know, so notably the editor in chief did not sign this, which was, uh, which was the interesting part of the situation, which I also, to be honest with you, editor in chief is pretty in the hard spot because they are, they are literally that bridge between corporate group and the corporate. So I get it, but also.
00:10:46
Speaker
Probably still should have signed. Yeah, because they had already tweeted beforehand of their support of the original of the first message to begin with. So but, you know, still tough. I get it. I'm not completely. I mean, you know, putting words in his mouth. Right. That's what we're doing here. The editor in chief could not have agreed. He could have agreed with her mouth. Oh, her. I'm sorry.
00:11:13
Speaker
That's my male bias showing it. I actually try to use gender neutral pronouns these days and it still kind of slips out every now and then. The editor in chief, let me put words into their mouth.
00:11:28
Speaker
There we go. They may they may have not agreed. They may have not. They may have disagreed with it originally, but also if they posted up the first time, you have to imagine they gave some sort of sign off about it. So who knows? This letter also. Oh, go ahead. No, no, go ahead, Andy. Oh, I only meant to say this letter like had demands in it.
00:11:52
Speaker
I believe they wanted the post back. They wanted a meeting by Friday with IGN and higher level staff. They wanted an explanation. They wanted an apology. They are calling out. I was very surprised reading through the final bit of it that they want the people who hid it and lied to take responsibility.
00:12:20
Speaker
which is bizarre that people put their names on it. No, I take that back. It's not bizarre. It's great that people put their names on it, but I'm just not.
00:12:29
Speaker
I'm not used, at least in the things I'm exposed to, to people, you know, make this this strong demand for accountability. So we'll see it. This is this upcoming Friday that management has to respond. Well, you don't have to. Well, true. They don't have to do anything. And being a company, they probably won't. But the they did it. They put this out and a lot of people want it. And I was also. Oh, go ahead.
00:12:59
Speaker
No, no, no. Can you finish your thoughts? Still still ranting. Not so much a rant, but a little bit. I guess that's sad that I thought it. But genuinely, when I heard.
00:13:12
Speaker
the oh god I'm so sorry IGN I'm so sorry but like when I heard them getting upset or whatever and talking about journalistic integrity I was just like I was surprised that it was a big deal that a big company moved it down right I I thought we were all just kind of resigned
00:13:33
Speaker
to how the system, you know, works. And I think it's really great that they wrote this, that they called it out. And I feel bad that I took for granted or I didn't respect or acknowledge how seriously they took it and how important it was. And it improved my image, a lot of it.
00:13:55
Speaker
Um, I had an unfair opinion of IGN, but I was, I was really happy to see this and it genuinely made me sit back and rethink it. Um, so, so kudos to them and I am sorry that I thought less of it before.
00:14:10
Speaker
Well, I mean, one of the one of the things that's interesting, right? IGN is by and far away the biggest games journalism site still, right? Highest by traffic and, you know, numbers of measure, right? Compared to the next lowest one. And it's you just got to wonder why, you know, corporate's like, let's fuck this golden goose up, right?
00:14:37
Speaker
They're doing their job. I mean, I think, you know, IGN posted that thing and, you know, people free to disagree or agree with it as it were. But I don't think it really stirred anything with anyone. No. Right. Everyone was just like, yeah, because, you know, they're again tiptoeing around the topic because we are not experts. A lot of people last week were discussing the Israeli Palestinian conflict and, you know,
00:15:05
Speaker
And I think a lot of, you know, these charities were going out and everyone was like, OK, this is what Twitter is focusing on this week and that's fine. But then IGN's leadership said, what if we made the story about us instead? Yeah. So it was truly what goes through their heads. I do not know. I do not know. Yeah. Yeah. Charles, what do you think about ethics and games?
00:15:32
Speaker
Well, remember, my opinion of games journalism is like, they're very low. It's so low. It's so low. It's so low. In fact, if it were to keep digging a hole, they'd still be lower. That's my opinion of games journalism. Now, that being said, I'm not done. But that being said...
00:15:53
Speaker
It is still important that they push for what integrity that they do have. They do have a trusted following of people and readers. And it's important that if it's not them saying something, if it's not through their words, that they make it clear to everybody else
00:16:17
Speaker
that is not them. Because it's agreed, right? Like we said, they still have some of the best traffic. They have a lot of, I'd say, clout, a certain trust and pedigree with their site, if only because they're also some of the oldest still going. Quick, Charles, what's IGN stand for?
00:16:41
Speaker
I don't remember anymore. I've always Andy. Andy, what's an agent stand for? I don't know. International. Nope. I couldn't tell you. The Imagine Games Network. No. Yep. I remember that because I remember going to IGN trying to decide if I should buy an Xbox or a GameCube.
00:17:05
Speaker
And it was called back then the Imagine Games Network. It was like under under the fold. It was like IGN, Imagine Games Network. I think that was like the URL to question mark. I have to. That's my memory starts to get foggier on there. But yeah. Interesting. Well, I don't blame them for abbreviating goodness. So I mean, and you know, for me, when I heard about the initial news of
00:17:31
Speaker
there's it being taken down and everything else. I was wondering what would be the staff's reaction to it. And I was really happy to see that they had written up the open letter and signed it. Because one, there's no good publicity at all for the parent companies and the owners.
00:17:51
Speaker
that IGN signed this is, again, no one is on the corporate company side for this. They have, at the very least, that. And to be honest with you, with the way the games, journalism, and everything works, there's so many talented people, they can find themselves on other sites if they were to lose their jobs over it.
00:18:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. That being said, you know, it's still a sucky situation that they would put themselves into. So, you know, it's still very brave of them to do it. So I respect them a lot for still pushing through and getting it and making these demands because this is important if you want to maintain your integrity. Yeah. So.
IGN's Journalistic Integrity at Risk
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's I think IGN is still kind of seen as for a lot of people, it's like working there is you've made it. Right. That's the cream of the only other other step in kind of games journalism is to start your own thing. Right. But, you know, IGN, you know, now that Game Informer has basically died.
00:18:59
Speaker
Yeah, they were probably they were probably the other stalwart pillar, right? So IGN is basically all that's left. Did you know KTM still has a website? Yeah, it's just sad. I mean, I know people like think of Kotaku as being up there, but Kotaku is pretty recent in the grand scheme of things, not comparative to like IGN and IGN, I think, was like one of the first like
00:19:25
Speaker
pure gaming websites, at least that survived that original swath of happening in the early 2000s. I'm sure there were like hundreds, but IGN was the one that made it. So, yeah, I mean, it's just what it's it really, it really goes into our conversation last week, too, which is like the people who make these decisions are just so removed from any kind of normal reality that they're like, yeah, this seems fine.
00:19:55
Speaker
No one's going to care that we did this. And it doesn't. It's it's such a leap of thought to or leap of logic to completely miss this reaction. Right. To completely think this wouldn't happen. I don't know. And these people get paid a lot of money. Yeah. Well, the other interesting part, I mean, maybe they mentioned it in this article. No, no, no, maybe not in this not in the open letter, but the that there was a I.G. and Israel that caught
00:20:25
Speaker
that tweeted at the same time, that were just like, those views do not reflect us, which, by the way, is true. Technically, the IGN name is licensed out to other places, so they're separate groups. So the IGN Israel site had to make it clear, hey, we're not the same organization.
00:20:48
Speaker
We hope our IGN American staff will rescind this statement. But to be honest with you, if that's what you're fucking worried about, maybe you shouldn't license in such a way that it's like that. But that's all weird and a different topic in general.
00:21:09
Speaker
I think what it really comes down to is A, it's a sensitive topic. Obviously by the fact that we are just doing everything in our power not to talk about it and our opinions on it. But I think it's also, it's just the ownership of IGN kept making mistakes.
00:21:34
Speaker
Mistake one was pulling it down without talking to anyone. That sin on its own could have been forgivable. But then they put out a false statement reported to be by the editorial staff, which is like
00:21:52
Speaker
At that point, you're just putting words in people's mouths. So it's like they had a chance to pivot back. They're like, OK, we don't want you up there, you know, and then went and talked to them and been like, listen, you can we're telling you, you have to retract this and then, you know, you can have the fight on your own. But to have them retract it and then lie about retracting it was just like, oh, not a good look. But.
00:22:17
Speaker
But yeah, I'm I'm I'm happy they wrote that. I used to think IGN was kind of, you know, it was a little bit too mainstream. Right. It's very mainstream. They set the precedent of, you know, eight out of 10 is a bad score. Right. They it's or the eight out of 10 like IGN to me was always like it was which you didn't want to be. Right. Maybe it wasn't real news. And again, this is all in my head. I'm not I.
00:22:45
Speaker
I feel bad for saying it now, reading how they felt. It was it was it was not OK with me. So I used to think pretty badly of IGN, but they really care. And I was I was very happy to see that. I remember I went to the IGN Wikipedia page because
00:23:06
Speaker
me talking about going to it back in the early 2000s made me think about why did I go to IGN? Because I always remember not wanting to. And that's because there were five websites within a magic media, one of which was and sixty four dot com. Oh, was it really? Yeah. Then PSX Power, Saturn World and the next generation dot com and old ultra game players. Oh, yeah.
00:23:32
Speaker
But N64 on.com became IGN64.com. And I do remember being upset about that for like half a minute. To be young again. But let's step away from this minefield of a conversation and let's talk about something that no one's upset about.
Twitch's Hot Tub Meta and Policy Changes
00:24:00
Speaker
Women's using their sexuality on Twitch.
00:24:06
Speaker
God, if all the weeks for me to figure out that MLG air horn, this is the one. Yeah. Andy, I want to do this more as a conversation with you. If I say the words hot tub meta to you, what does that mean? I only know of this because I read about it about an hour ago.
00:24:35
Speaker
But before. Sure, sure. But no, I had been kind of hearing the rumblings of hot tubs on Twitch, right? I did not know it was called the hot tub meta. But essentially, I just knew that women.
00:24:56
Speaker
were able to, if they were in a hot tub, use or rather wear swimsuits. I wanted to say revealing, which I guess they are, but they're allowed to use it, but only in that circumstance. They can't play a game while wearing their swimsuit.
00:25:14
Speaker
but they can certainly sit in a pool. And it's if you think about this way, they can't wear revealing clothes and just play a game because then obviously, why would you wear revealing clothes? Exactly. That makes no sense. So. But if you're in a hot tub, well, of course you're going to be wearing a bikini. Come on, guys. What am I going to get into a hot tub wearing a three piece suit? No, no. That's right. There's no. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:44
Speaker
So Charles, do you want to throw something in before I give the ground floor to this?
00:25:53
Speaker
No, it's fine. Go ahead. OK. So, yeah. So Twitch and female screeners have been kind of in a war of escalation since I want to say like 2018 at this point, where it's it's kind of been this thing of, you know, I also like to clarify my my position on this, that sex work is real work. Women should. Yeah. Yeah. Women should not be ashamed or shamed, I should say.
00:26:22
Speaker
for using God, even that language is bad. But anyway, it's just that women should not be shamed for doing whatever the hell they want with their bodies because they decide what the hell they want to do with their body. Right. So clear statement one.
00:26:40
Speaker
Twitch, however, is a company which became owned by Amazon, again, I think around 2018, 2019. And part of that, what makes Twitch profitable is advertisers. Guess what advertisers don't wanna be seen next to? Essentially, softcore porn. So it's been this kind of battle of Twitch making rules, applying them,
00:27:16
Speaker
I can't say a case by case basis rate where you have different people making different rulings in different situations, which creates an appearance of having basically an unfair system. I'm not going to guess to whether or not. I mean, there's been a lot of claims that, you know, a lot of Twitch admins are fans of some of these stream of certain streamers. So they give some leeway where they don't give others. Really? I don't want to get. Yeah, I don't. Yeah.
00:27:34
Speaker
I don't want to say unfairly, but they apply them on a case by case.
00:27:42
Speaker
That's never been that's never been verified or proved or anything like that. It's all hearsay, but yeah, so but you know, so there's been these kind of crackdowns where I think it was cosplay at first, then it became body painting and twitches kind of shut those down one after the other. And now it's sitting in a hot tub and playing games and not even always playing games. Some point you just do just chatting.
00:28:06
Speaker
I mean, if you want to be clear about it, we're not using Twitch for gaming purposes. We usually get to record a podcast once a week. Exactly. We, in fact, don't stream enough to get affiliate status. I realized the other day looking at her dashboard. Oh, no. Yeah, I know. I have to I'm going to have to do some streaming in the off time. So our monthly numbers go up so we could become an affiliate, which again. But again, it's all about money, obviously. Right. So
00:28:35
Speaker
So this hot tub met has kind of come, you know, everyone's figured it out. Everyone's getting basically inflatable hot tubs or just kiddie pools off Amazon and using that to sit, using that to get around the rules and basically stream in a bikini or less, you know, and.
00:28:51
Speaker
and hot tub meta referring to breaking the system, right? Basically, yeah. They found a way to, yeah, basically get away with wearing a bikini because Twitch right now it was in it was in their terms of service that you could. So they said, all right, we will. What are you going to do? And we'll see. Well, they did, actually.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, so just breaking news as of like four o'clock today, um, which is Amorath, Amor, right? Amor Rance, right? Ran. Yeah. Yes. Amor Rance. Yeah. I mean, she's basically, I want to say the most popular female streamer on Twitch.
00:29:33
Speaker
Well, she's the most infamous streamer on Twitch. That's fair. The most followed or most subscribed is still, I think, Pokemon. Oh, that's true, Pokemon, yeah. But either way, Amaranth is a well-known name, especially for pushing these kinds of rules against the TOS and things like that. What they did announce today is that they will no longer, well, they will still run ads on her page,
00:30:01
Speaker
But she will not be allowed to make money off of them, which opens up a whole nother can of fun works about, you know, basically kind of taking advantage of her content, but not letting her get get money off of it. Granted, ad revenue is probably the smallest share of money that she makes off Twitch between, you know, only fans to donations, subs, other stuff like that. But it's still kind of shitty. I don't know.
00:30:31
Speaker
Yeah. I think even in her point, her thing was it's still not so bad for her, but it is shitty for any of any smaller streamer that is also making use of the hot tub meta because they will likely not have as many different revenue streams as she does. Right. I don't know.
00:30:54
Speaker
Twitch is going to be in this fight for a long time. YouTube was in this fight for a long time. If you remember the great demonetization wave of YouTube where all the creators on YouTube suddenly got those demonetization strikes on all their content, that's basically how they drove a lot of people off YouTube because, you know, Coca-Cola was like, Hey, I don't want my content next to basically porn. So beheading videos.
00:31:23
Speaker
Yeah, or beheading videos. Yeah. So that's how YouTube handled it, which was a very strict kind of. All right. We're closing down the Wild West. It's it's if it even offends anyone, you're getting shut down is basically how Twitch kind of handled it or to it. Yeah, YouTube. Twitch, however, like I said earlier, was kind of at least for now handling it on a case by case basis and deciding things as it goes. But
00:31:48
Speaker
I don't know how much longer they're going to be able to do that because it's going to keep pushing. Like people like Amaranth and other streamers, right? I frankly love the guys who are doing it too because men are not allowed to stream without a shirt on. But they can. Yeah, male presenting nipples. And you never forget streaming, streaming. Sorry. They can they can be in a hot tub.
00:32:13
Speaker
They can be in a hot tub without a shirt on. Makes perfect sense. God, like what's the. I don't get it. I don't get it. Like, what the heck? Yeah, I mean, one of the bigger issues with this whole thing, too, is.
00:32:27
Speaker
There's really two pieces of anger here. One is there's a lot of frustration on Twitch, the company, because they do not regulate their rules very well. They also don't communicate very well on anything, including what Amaran says in this article, which is they didn't tell her what was going on about her being demonetized. She had to reach out and go, hey, what's going on? And then somebody told her,
00:32:57
Speaker
So they didn't give her any heads up on what to change or if there was a problem at all, they just kind of did it. So again, a shitty thing to do if you are Twitch. But the other problem here is that because Twitch has been so inconsistent with everything for so many years now,
Challenges in Twitch's Content Regulation
00:33:20
Speaker
Everyone else gets mad at these hot tub meta streamers because they're just like, you're taking advantage of the system. Well, that's just what the system is like right now. Again, personally, if a place allows you to do this, it's not a foul.
00:33:40
Speaker
similar to competitive games or sports, if there's no rule saying you can't do this or it's still you're kind of like balancing the rules, it's up to the enforcement of the rules to keep it down before it gets too popular, which is something Twitch is not doing. I think. Oh, God.
00:33:58
Speaker
And then finally, the second point that I think is more sinister and important is that misogynists are also using this as a way to directly attack all of these women, and in turn, women that are not using the hot tub meta at all.
00:34:17
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And it's like, it's one of those things where it's a, it's a real shame where like people are just using the hiding behind it to talk a lot of shit to the people and not being mad at the system that's allowing it to happen instead.
00:34:33
Speaker
So it's just not good overall because of how much like you know It is the internet it can be suffocating to be focused with so much hate You know, so it's it's a shame because you know, we're never gonna solve the second one At least not in a timely manner, but we can do something about the first one at least Yeah, I mean
00:34:59
Speaker
The only argument, and I'm glad you pointed out misogyny because, frankly, it's never a good time to be a woman on the Internet, which is a shitty thing to say, but doesn't make it any less true. I mean, Alana Pierce has posted many has openly posted many of the things that she has received and dealt with for for daring to have an opinion on a game.
00:35:27
Speaker
But yeah, I think the only argument against it that I will hear is that Twitch still has this problem with parasocial relationships and underage audiences and
00:35:41
Speaker
It's not the streamer's responsibility to moderate that, but it is still a platform where it can exist. So that's not something I necessarily want to put on the streamers that they have to deal with it, but it is something that I think is worth discussing where it's like you have this website that can be used to expose
00:36:00
Speaker
growing minds to things they are not ready for. And that is not just including, you know, women showing off their bodies and scantily clad outfits, right? It also can be, you know, white, white supremacy, racism, all sorts of other things, right? You can screw up kids any number of ways using Twitch, but
00:36:23
Speaker
So it's not it's not it's not unique to this problem, but I think it's also something where you have to say, well, if you have enough people doing it, you can't also turn a blind eye to it. I because they're women, it's easier to attack. That's true. Yeah, that's the big problem here. It's like, oh, we're really vocal about this. All right. But the radical right we don't care about. Yeah. Attack the women. That's right.
00:36:50
Speaker
Who are they? Andy, Andy, let me be clear. Twitch is for gaming only. Okay. Gaming only. Yeah. Yeah. We should get off this site with our sometimes gaming related conversation. We're not having a game and relating conversation. We're talking about Twitch, which at the moment is not gaming. Yeah, it's can't even hold ourselves to our own standards.
00:37:20
Speaker
But let's fix that. Oh, let's talk about a game. Tell me the cure.
Mass Effect Legendary Edition Release
00:37:25
Speaker
Mass Effect Legendary Mass Effect Legendary Edition came out last week and reviews are really good. I picked it up today, by the way. Oh, did you? I made a special trip to Best Buy and bought the game. And now I will enjoy Mass Effect in 2021.
00:37:45
Speaker
Yeah, which I also got it on Friday and was playing it. And I want to temper your expectations, Andy. This remake is about putting all the DLC in and then updating the graphics.
00:38:03
Speaker
And then for Mass Effect 1, they updated the controls on the Mako, and then they changed the shooting system to be similar to Mass Effect 2 and 3. They did not change, they did not rehaul absolutely everything. So you will find the legacy of early era RP, early, was that third gen, I guess you call it? Yeah.
00:38:32
Speaker
RPGs in here. So I don't know what that means. Be ready for it. You'll know when you play it. Is it the reason that I don't like to play Western RPGs? Yes. Is it that? Oh, come on. Andy, did you play Kodor? I did not. OK. Mass Effect always struck me as kind of being like the evolution of Knights of the Old Republic. Sure.
00:38:59
Speaker
Which will get better once you get past one because two and three made improvements in your systems. But yeah, it's still there. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm looking forward to playing it. I've heard a lot of positive things. And a few article titles, to be fair, because I haven't read any articles because I didn't want any spoilers, but a few titles calling out, you know, you know, there's still Mass Effect one and stuff like that. And I was like, I don't remember Mass Effect one being that bad.
00:39:28
Speaker
like i remember the gun play being particularly bad and the fact that everyone's saying it's i i was surprised to hear you say that it's not a different game charles because i do everyone i've at least listened to talk about it said the gun play of mass effect one is vastly improved
00:39:45
Speaker
Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's that is one aspect of the game. But to be honest with you, what, what, what, what I identify as the game is more of the like, the experience total. So like, you know, the feeling of being introduced in the opening and how they set everything up and you know, the environments and everything else, that's all still
00:40:13
Speaker
mass effect of one, which I think is very important because it lays the groundwork for two and three. But I agree. The gameplay is a is a major component of the game, the gunplay. So, yes, they did improve that and it is better for it. But, you know, some of those other systems you'll notice are antiquated. There's just a lot of you're getting a lot of like
00:40:39
Speaker
You're like garbly. Oh, really? I don't know how to fix that. I don't know how to fix that right next to my mic. No, it's like network. I don't know how you can fix that without Senncaster just hating everything about life, but just letting you know. Sometimes you miss a couple of your words, just letting you know. But if you're looking at Twitch right now, even the model differences are pretty crazy.
00:41:04
Speaker
Yeah, they they did. They redid the lighting engines. The game looks a lot prettier. It plays a lot nicer. I think it's it's it's always nice to be like this is the definitive way to play Mass Effect one now, which is good, right? It's it sucks when they do these kinds of things that are like, yeah, but the original still better because of this than the other thing. This is like, no, no, no, every everything we like to still hear, everything we didn't like. Well, most things we didn't like have been improved.
00:41:33
Speaker
Well, I remember when I came out the first one, I remember thinking I can't believe games can look this good. Yeah. And now it's just like, oh, that's dated, which again, how spoiled we've become. But the biggest question is, should I play male shepherd or female shepherd?
00:41:53
Speaker
Um, I mean, because I get the impression that female shepherd is like cannon, whatever that well, people really like Jennifer Hales performance. Yeah, Jennifer. Yeah, great. Yeah, she did a good job. I always hear the thing with me is I play it twice. Usually I always play.
00:42:13
Speaker
male Shep is paragon and then fem Shep as renegade. Cause I think it's a lot more funny to hear Jennifer Hale like yelling out these just terrible things to people. And I think the male performance on the renegade isn't as good. Like it's, it's lesser in most ways to fem Shep and Jennifer Hale, but the male performance, I think is a little better in a paragon than it is in a renegade run.
00:42:40
Speaker
OK, all right. Well, I've got some thinking to do. We'll see. But I'm glad to hear it's being received positively. It's a landmark game. This is a lot to a lot of people. Well, remember, I'll say remember, it's not just one, it's two and three as well.
00:42:57
Speaker
Exactly. And to to kind of see people's reactions talking about like the nostalgia and the emotion of booting up this game and seeing it again, for some reason, it's I don't know why it's hard for me to make that connection, because I think of that like with like PS1 games.
00:43:15
Speaker
But 360 games are that way for people. And why shouldn't they? But it's it's kind of weird to see something that is newer. Jen still be, you know, looked through rose tinted glasses. Right. Speaking of 360 games, Lost Odyssey is if you have X-Box gold, Lost Odyssey is on sale for $4.99 on the X-Box store right now. Is it? Yeah. Why don't they put that on PC?
00:43:41
Speaker
Yeah, you would think, right? But I mean, it's you buy the 360 version, then it backcompats into the Xbox series.
00:43:49
Speaker
I do want to add one thing about the Mass Effect games. And we'll see how well two and three handle it. Because they didn't necessarily fully add too many additions to everything, one thing that definitely still needed it, and I understand that they didn't change it, could have added better options to character creation still.
00:44:16
Speaker
Uh, you know, I was like, I want to make my Asian character. And then I ended up making a tan white guy. And I was like,
00:44:25
Speaker
Hmm. I mean, I will say that is a benefit of playing on PC. The mod community for Mass Effect series has always been pretty robust. Yeah. But I know like mods are not unless you're a Bethesda game, mods are not allowed to be the answer to a to a game. But no, I.
00:44:52
Speaker
So, you know, I haven't heard anyone really say anything about to more or less. It's kind of like do the masterpiece still is nothing. They didn't change it. It looks about the same. What I've heard, most interestingly, is people coming back to three for the first time since it's since it came out and and then still going, yeah, it wasn't a good game.
00:45:19
Speaker
It's it's an incredible game sandwiched between two pretty OK games is really, I think, the legacy of Mass Effect. Yeah. Should I bother playing three? Oh, yeah, you still need to. Yeah. Yeah. You got to get to that color coded choice at the end of the game, Andy, to have an opinion. No, I like. And here again, here's what I'm going to say about Mass Effect three.
00:45:42
Speaker
My enjoyment of the games is Mass Effect 2, then 3, then 1. And 3 is great because of how well it ties everything back up. And then it's the disappointment in the ending, which is famous. That is the real problem with 3. Because I think all those storylines getting connected and everything else was pretty good. Yeah. I mean,
00:46:12
Speaker
I haven't played three since it came out. What from what I'm hearing, we may hear about more of this at E3 this year, but it it does sound like there's the summer is about to be a a desert for new games being released other than Mario Golf. But so I will probably come into Mass Effect to replay it maybe sometime in the July August timeframe. But
00:46:39
Speaker
Yeah, I from people I listen to and trust. I've heard a lot of them say it's like, you know, the ending gets a lot of the lifting for why it's a bad game, but it's it's almost more than that. It's it's.
00:46:54
Speaker
It's just kind of like the storylines are well connected to what you're saying, Charles, but like the gameplay and the set pieces, they feel very disjointed and it doesn't feel as narratively focused to say Mass Effect two was where, you know, you really feel like you're in this mission and, you know, it makes a lot of sense for what you're doing. Well, Mass Effect three had a very almost unnecessary time crunch added to it from a story perspective that then Cyberpunk had that too. Right. Where there's like there's a time crunch.
00:47:23
Speaker
Let me go do these hundred side quests. Yeah. And I and I and I understand that feeling with the story. I think what saves three and does add a lot more for me is the
Mass Effect Series Analysis
00:47:37
Speaker
best factories DLC, I think, is still the best DLC out of all three games. That's because it was main storyline content. But DLC. Well, I'm not even talking about like
00:47:51
Speaker
What's it? And no, I'm not even talking about protein that that like honestly didn't need it. It's the other ones. I think it's called overlords and then and then Citadel that are that's like the best DLC is so good. Like that should have been in the main game because of how good it is. But yeah, I don't care about the protein thing. That was like that barely added anything to me.
00:48:19
Speaker
Oh, Andy there when you get to three, they locked an entire character behind DLC and the original one pre-order DLC at that. And I disagree with Charles on this. He's pretty integral to the story. Like, I think you had a worse experience if you didn't play with him in your party. Hmm. He'll be in the game because it's legendary edition, but.
00:48:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. I'm a little bit worried playing it because I'm worried it's going to be one of those things where it's so important and so great to so many people that I don't want to use the word over height because I feel like it's disrespectful.
00:49:00
Speaker
But I'm worried I'm going into this with a lot of expectation and I don't want that to cloud write my experience of it. I Understand that well, I think to I think it may it may underperform Your expectations and the way people talk about it, but I still think it's such an enjoyable ride You'll still get a lot out of it. No matter
00:49:24
Speaker
If it's a great game, then I win, right? It's just I have to make sure. Yeah, I probably won't think it's as good. Well, who knows? Who knows? I can't make any assumptions right now. But it's really cool to hear how great two is for a lot of people. And I want to hear who you. Plus, we want to hear who you romance, Andy. That's the big thing.
00:49:45
Speaker
Oh, see, this is why I kind of like don't like these games is all these branching stories and all these decision trees. It's just like, what if I choose the worser story? Right. That's what I don't want. And that's why I like I'd rather not play these games because I don't like being able to choose the worst story.
00:50:08
Speaker
Carl's I'm going to ruin I'm going to ruin a little bit of Mass Effect two for him right now because I want to see his reaction. Andy, the last mission of Mass Effect two is called the suicide mission, and it is entirely possible to make all the wrong choices. I think I've heard that hinted before. And honestly, I mean, I'm still playing it, but that's an enormous deterrent for me. So that games do that. I don't I don't get excited, right?
00:50:36
Speaker
for that type of control in my story? Yeah, well, I mean, to be honest with you, though, I do think you'll have to just detach yourself a little bit and think to yourself, this is your story. If something happens, if you romance somebody, right, and then other people disagree, again, it doesn't matter. It's your story. And if you lose people in the suicide mission,
00:51:05
Speaker
Again, it's your story. The fun part about Mass Effect and when you talk to other people about it is how different your experience is to other people. Yeah. Sorry, Charles, but I think the thing too, right, is if you choose a character to fall in love with and one, and you manage to keep that character alive through two and one, because some characters can die in one, spoiler.
00:51:31
Speaker
you can then have this relationship with the same NPC through three games, which is I can't think of another game that really does that. Right. Yeah. And it can be very rewarding, you know, to see like that grow because it's not it's not a Legend of Korra situation where it feels like people didn't grow between every season. I think there's differences. Charles with the Legend of Korra hot.
00:52:01
Speaker
it was a good series it's just for some reason they still couldn't get it right after three seasons of character growth and i'll stick to it damn it you just don't like uh same sex relationships that's what it is they could have written that better
00:52:25
Speaker
No, but yeah, I think I was a little worried about Mass Effect Legendary Edition being just a cash in. And I mean, it kind of is still, but it's a good cash in, which is about the best I think we could have hoped from it. So well, and it lets me play it. Right. And it lets others play it, which is really the unfortunate necessity of these is that how do you keep it updated and relevant for people to play? Because at least within the Sony ecosystem, you can't. Yeah.
00:52:54
Speaker
Just stupid, but you get to play Lost Odyssey on your Xbox X or whatever it is. I can buy a digital version of a 360 game and then play it on my Xbox. That is so stupid. Microsoft is only doing that because they're losing.
00:53:14
Speaker
OK, good competition, good competition. I'm mad. Do you know what I was doing that it reminded me, too, that I own the digital copy of Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3 on Xbox digital. So I downloaded that, too. Yeah, I can't play my HD collection that I bought the special edition of so I could get that cool art book. It's like, oh, thanks for making an HD version. Still can't play it because it's on PS. Sony, you're stupid.
00:53:43
Speaker
But I can't. And with framerate boost too, I think. I said shut up. It's not fair. I'll get mad. But it's a good thing. We win by having this released. Hopefully. I also think this will be the first time that I'll pay for a Mass Effect game.
00:54:05
Speaker
Oh, no. OK, you have to buy it, then. Yeah, I know. That's what I was saying. I should buy it just for the clear that karma. I don't remember. I may have paid for two. I sure as hell didn't pay for three. What I can't remember. Yeah.
00:54:26
Speaker
Listen, I was I was a young, not well off person in those days.
Ethics of Game Purchases
00:54:32
Speaker
Nowadays, if I see a screenshot that entertains me, I'll buy that. Because you're involved. That's right. Disposable income. Right. When you're a kid, it happens. That's right. That's right, kids. Piracy is legal as long as you're under the age of 21. Yeah, let's be honest.
00:54:54
Speaker
Like, yeah, but once you get a job, come on. Come on. And I get it. It might mean you can only buy a game once in a while, but you're buying that game. You're not entitled to everything. OK, you're what's the frontal weight? When does the frontal lobe stop developing? Is that twenty five, twenty five, twenty six? Still by twenty one.
00:55:19
Speaker
You better you have to take responsibility. You don't get the twenty five, twenty six. So I had to make a decision between games and thirty dollar anime DVDs. I made my decision. You know, you got to get that starter box set and then you have to fill the rest of the box. That's right.
00:55:40
Speaker
Just a quick go back. In the terms of DLC, Mass Effect 3 Citadel, Leviathan and Omega are the DLCs that you play. We never played them. All of them incredible. Should have just been part of the main game.
00:55:59
Speaker
That's it. Yeah, I didn't play them. I think I played Mass Effect three of the first. Did those come out at release or a little while after release? I believe a little while after release. Yeah, I played it like for first week, something like that. So it'll be it'll be interesting. That's something for me to look forward to with Mass Effect three. But this has been another episode of Add to Party, a friendship simulator masquerading as a new show. I've been your host, James Hartwell, and encouraging piracy.
00:56:31
Speaker
And I've been joined by Charles. And I've been joined by Andy K and my neck back is feeling a little bit better.
00:56:42
Speaker
Go stretch on your bed. Thank you. I'm wondering. I am feeling a bit warm, though, because I have been drinking. I don't know if that helps muscles, but I might have found a different solution. I just want to put Andy Kay advocating for alcohol as the cause of and solution to all of your problems. Good night. What else is new? Good night.