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Personal Injury & Criminal Defense Attorney feat. Sean Villery-Samuel (Part 1)
100 Plays1 year ago
Today’s guest is Sean Villery-Samuel, an attorney practicing Personal Injury Law with experience in Criminal Law. He is a native of Beaumont, Texas, and in May 2009, he earned his law degree from Texas Southern University, Thurgood Marshall School of Law.
Sean was inspired to pursue a legal career by his father, who is an attorney in Beaumont, and a role model for the impact that Sean wanted to have with his career. He grew up watching his father help people, and knew that he wanted to help people in the same way.
Part of his motivation for coming onto the show is to bring awareness to an enriching career like law, that is sorely lacking minority representation.
He’s here to share his unique journey and encourage others. Building a successful legal career requires significant time, resources and energy, but he believes in the power of serving your community through law as a worthwhile endeavor.
Helping others in need is the foundation for his work ethic. And his favorite motivational quote, "The legacy you leave is the life that you live", underscores the importance of making the most of each day and leaving a positive impact.
He was recently promoted to non-Equity Partner at Provost Umphrey Law Firm, where he focuses on fighting for the legal rights of individuals and families, and balancing justice for the working man.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
It would definitely be something of me looking forward over the horizon, hopeful. Definitely some color. I can see a orangish sunset of sorts, something similar to what we saw in Destin during that time we were together. But it's those type of moments that makes me, that makes this all make sense.
00:00:26
Speaker
What's up world? I am your host, BA, and this is Take Your Homeboy to Work Day Podcast, your favorite podcast to learn about careers and trades. Here's what you can expect by tuning in. Each episode, guests from different professions share the arcs of jobs held, their education and training,
00:00:48
Speaker
skills and experiences, salary expectations, of course, and the intrinsic fulfillment that motivates them. So for anyone interested in hearing the firsthand experience of a career, let these conversations be your launching pad to learn more.
Meet Stephanie, the Guest Host
00:01:05
Speaker
Today, I am introducing a new concept and inviting a guest host to help me facilitate these conversations.
00:01:15
Speaker
And I am thrilled to introduce my vibrant and spirited wife, Stephanie, who is serving as guest host with me today.
00:01:25
Speaker
Hailing from Okaloosa County, Florida, Stephanie is a 15-year veteran in biotechnology and pharmaceutical sales. She started off as a sales rep and over her career has served in a wide range of roles that include national trainer, district manager, and most recently an associate director working on groundbreaking medical innovation that serves patients with genetic mutations.
00:01:52
Speaker
She's now expanded into career coaching and advocacy for getting what paid what you deserve. She's also a proud member of the Beehive, so you better have the right favorite artist when she asks you. I'm excited to have her on the show, and thank you for joining me today with this concept. Thank you so much.
00:02:11
Speaker
Hello, world. It's great to be here. It's always been my dream to be a host of a talk show, so I'm so happy to be accompanying you and loving what you're doing here on this podcast.
00:02:23
Speaker
Of course, thank you for your support. And I appreciate you bringing another voice and energy to the show. And I think it's going to go great with our guest today. Absolutely. Would you mind introducing our guest? Sure.
Spotlight on Sean, the Personal Injury Lawyer
00:02:35
Speaker
So today's guest is Sean Villarey-Samuel, an attorney practicing personal injury law with experience in criminal law.
00:02:44
Speaker
He's a native of Beaumont, Texas, and in May 2009, he earned his law degree from Texas Southern University, Thurgood Marshall School of Law. Sean was inspired to pursue a legal career by his father, who's also an attorney in Beaumont.
00:02:59
Speaker
and a role model for the impact that Sean wanted to have with his career. He grew up watching his father help people and knew that he wanted to help people in the same way. Part of his motivation for coming onto the show is to bring awareness to the enriching career like law that is sorely lacking minority representation.
00:03:19
Speaker
He's here to share his unique journey and encourage others. Building a successful legal career requires significant time, resources, and energy, but he believes in the power of serving your community through law as a worthwhile endeavor.
00:03:34
Speaker
Helping others in need is the foundation for his work ethic. And his favorite motivational quote, the legacy you leave is the life that you live, underscores the importance of making the most of each day and leaving a positive impact. He was recently promoted to non-equity partner at Provost Humphrey Law Firm, where he focuses on fighting for the legal rights of individuals and families and balancing justice for the working man. Thank you so much for coming on today and welcome to the show.
00:04:03
Speaker
Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's a pleasure for me to be here. Most importantly, I'm so excited that I'm on a podcast with my favorite alexanders. I love y'all and I appreciate y'all having me. Hey. Of course, of course. I mean, we were just talking, we were hanging out last year that I think us, the four of us has hung out the most out of any of my friends. So we always enjoy connecting with you and Mel and happy to have you on the show and glad we could do it in this format and learn more about you.
00:04:33
Speaker
Definitely, definitely. Thank you. And I'm looking forward to it. Awesome.
Sean's Career Journey
00:04:38
Speaker
Awesome. Well, so I gave the audience a brief overview of your career and who you are, but in your own words, can you share a bit more about yourself and your career? Yeah, yeah. I like to think of myself as a, you know, just a little guy from Beaumont, Texas.
00:04:55
Speaker
a place that I call a little big city. We're located in between Houston and the Louisiana border. So it's a lot of Creole folks out this way. But born and raised here for the most part, lived in Colorado for a bit when I was younger, lived in Aurora, which is actually right outside of Denver, Colorado. Moved back to Texas, moved to Houston. I lived there with my mom and my siblings until I believe my seventh grade, eighth grade, moved back to Beaumont.
00:05:25
Speaker
Live with my dad, I had a great time here. I had a cousin of mine that introduced me to Florida A&M, ended up going out there and that was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. Had a great time, met some great folks, which is largely a part of even while we're even having this conversation.
00:05:44
Speaker
At some point I decided to go to law school at Texas Southern, graduated from there, thought I was going to go into the DA's office in Harris County, but when I graduated there was a hiring freeze and what I've learned
00:05:56
Speaker
through my legal careers that oftentimes we have our own idea and opinion of what we need to do or what we believe what we want to do, but I now know even more that God knows where you need to be. Uh, so I ended up being back in Beaumont. Uh, it was supposed to be for a short state. I looked up, it was almost 10 years. I was practicing law with my dad where we did a lot of criminal work. And then in 2019,
00:06:23
Speaker
I made the decision that I needed to continue to grow. So I joined Provost Humphrey who had been around for over 50 years. It's a great firm and I came here and started doing personal injury. And I want to say in 2020, is 2020, 2021 around that range is when I was promoted to non equity partner here at the firm. And it's been a great experience for me so far.
00:06:50
Speaker
wonderful. And we are so happy that you decided to come out east and go to Florida A&M because that's where we all met. So thank you so much for sharing that. Just to go back a little bit to your major, I know that you majored in business in undergrad, but for the young people listening, what other degrees or classes or even extracurricular activities would you recommend
00:07:18
Speaker
to someone who's interested in getting into law? Great question.
00:07:23
Speaker
At the outset, what I want anyone to know is that as long as you have an undergraduate degree, you can go to law school. It can be in basket weaving. It can be in physical education. It really doesn't matter what your degree is in. However, when you have a degree that might have some type of government focus or pre-law focus, what that really is just doing is just kind of opening you up to the world of law
00:07:51
Speaker
a little bit before anybody else. Me having that business background, it would help me, I guess, if I went into mergers and acquisitions and things of that sort. But for the type of law that I do now, many of the things I learned then still helped me to this day because I still have to understand numbers. And when I'm negotiating, I have to know what my end goal is and how do I get there. And these are a lot of the skills I learned in undergrad. So I definitely believe
00:08:21
Speaker
putting yourself in a situation or a degree program where it's challenging that is the most important thing i can tell you and i say this. I thought i used to work hard and study hard and undergrad but when i got to law school i realized i was never studying i never knew what it really meant to lock in and buckle down because law school.
00:08:44
Speaker
Not only are you learning a lot about just everything in the legal world, majority of it is learning a lot about yourself. You're going to hit that day one day where you're going to question, why am I here? Why am I doing this? I can't do it. And you're going to push through
Mock Trial Experience and Legal Skills
00:09:00
Speaker
it. And you're going to learn that you're a lot stronger than you really are and you can persevere.
00:09:06
Speaker
Kind of circling back to the original question, what should you get involved in? I think if you're an undergrad and there's legal clubs, mock trial teams, those are definitely worthwhile. During my time at FAM, I was a part of the nationally ranked mock trial team we had.
00:09:23
Speaker
And that really made me much more comfortable in the courtroom. And it really has created a leg up for me in the legal world. So that when I went to try my first case, I wasn't uncomfortable. I had been doing it for years. I knew exactly what I needed to do. So, availing yourself to those type of opportunities will be invaluable. But taking those courses that will challenge you, challenge you,
00:09:45
Speaker
will be beneficial not only in a law school path but just in general in life because one thing we all know is that you're going to encounter those difficult days regardless of what job or career path you may be in but your ability to push through that will be tested in law school and that's why I think those are some of the things you should do.
00:10:06
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you. I wanted to pick your brain about your experience on the mock trial team. I guess in what ways, what similarities were there when you were preparing for the mock trial team that you've also found in the career that you found as you're preparing for a case nowadays? That's very good. That's the mock trial team.
00:10:25
Speaker
Yeah, very good question. Um, so, you know, my mock trial coach, uh, who passed last year, I believe, uh, Ron Raven now, he was a, yeah, he, yeah, he passed. Uh, he was a legend at FAM, uh, in the school of business. Um, my freshman year, I was, uh, I don't even remember.
00:10:49
Speaker
how I was introduced, but oh, it was a guy by the name is Norris Wright. He was on a mock trial team and I ended up becoming friends with him. He was an upperclassman and he told me to come on out and check it out. Before that in high school, I was a debate guy. I did that for maybe a year or two, but I really was a theater kid.
00:11:09
Speaker
I started doing theater in middle school. I did it my ninth grade year. I had an opportunity to go to the Houston High School of Performing and Visual Arts in Houston. I auditioned. I got in.
00:11:23
Speaker
And I turned it down. I turned it down because they didn't have a basketball program. I would have had to go somewhere else and play. And the funny thing is I would have been there during that time where Robert Glasper and Beyonce and all of those people would have been there. So that would have been interesting. But the reason
00:11:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I would have been there during that time funny enough. But the funny thing is I, like I said, I didn't go because I couldn't play basketball. And then I stopped playing basketball in my senior year because I started working. I was working a shoe store and I just really enjoyed helping people. And I didn't think basketball was going to be my ticket to college. So I buckled down and just focused on my
00:12:04
Speaker
academics and my desire to help people. And I said all that for this reason. So when I started doing the mock trial, I came into it initially as a witness. I wasn't one of the attorneys. I was a witness, but I still had to learn everything as if I was the attorney. I still had to learn the rules of evidence. I still had to learn the objections. I still had to learn all of that.
00:12:28
Speaker
So even though I may not have been participating as an attorney my first year, I was still introduced to it. And all of those things that I've learned back then, I still used to this day. So when I make an objection, I'm always going to do it the same way. I'm going to lead with the rule, and then I'm going to explain why I believe this to be so. That was something I learned from Ron Ravenel in undergrad.
00:12:52
Speaker
Whenever it comes to the way in which I cross-examine somebody, the thought and the effort that I put into it is directly tied to the lessons I learned from Ron Ravenel. When it comes to my understanding of really trying to connect with those I'm talking to, the audience, the jury, that comes directly from him. So when asked, what are some of the things that I
00:13:15
Speaker
have taken with me from my mock trial days to today, it's pretty much everything. There's nothing that I didn't do then that I don't do now. And as I said, because of that experience, I came out ahead. So when I was in law school and I participated in the mock trial, I already knew what I was doing. When I left law school and I went into starting my practice, I already knew what I was doing. So again, as I said, FAM has given me so many gifts.
00:13:45
Speaker
which has allowed me to help so many people and one of the gifts was of Iran Ravenel through my experience with my trial.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I remember at the last, our 15 year after convocation, we spent maybe like an hour up in his office after we walked through the school. Yeah. And you know, you could just tell the impact that he had on you and all the other students and, you know, his history that he had in his office was amazing. So, wow, I'm sad to hear that's passing in, but his impact was definitely felt. And that's what I like to remember and hold on to is that the people that he has touched
00:14:22
Speaker
They have that have chosen a career such as this that ripple effect reaches further beyond than he could ever imagine And that's what I you know when I was teaching at Texas Southern Law School for a while That was always my hope is that doing that period of time those young lawyers that I had my hands on for however long is that Some of the things that I've learned through my experience
00:14:45
Speaker
that I was able to impart that upon them and they can help people that they have yet to meet. And that's always my hope, is that what I'm doing today will be able to help people 10 years, 15, or generations from now. Respect. Respect.
Pathway to Law School Success
00:15:01
Speaker
Wow. Well, I was wondering if we could break down what law school is like.
00:15:06
Speaker
I guess first, if you could explain a little bit about the application and the process to get in, and then each year, year one through year three, are you learning something specific? What is the process of going through law school like?
00:15:22
Speaker
That's a very good question. I'll start with the first part of your question as far as the process of getting in. My process was a little bit different in the sense of, so for undergrad, I applied to, you know, I can't even count the number of schools. The last school I applied to was FAM. I didn't know FAM at the time. I had a cousin say, just, you know, apply. We were all gonna go, was four of us. The week before we left, he decided not to go, but the three of us, we still went.
00:15:52
Speaker
But when it came to law school, I applied to one law school. I wouldn't suggest that to anybody else. But I actually thought I was going to go to Howard. But I had a cousin that was at the law school at Texas Southern at the time, Michael Sterling. And he called me and said, come on home.
00:16:09
Speaker
And I did. My dad had graduated from that law school. I had a cousin there at the time. So I said, why not? So like I said, I applied to one law school. I took the LSAT. I didn't study like I should have. I was too busy focusing on enjoying the end of my college days, enjoying the frat. So I didn't do that.
00:16:35
Speaker
I would have loved to have taken a LSAT prep class. And I recommend that to anybody that is considering law school. And I say that because of my experience of taking the bar prep. That was invaluable. There are some tricks and some tools and exercises you can do that would allow you to score higher on the LSAT by simply taking advantage of these classes. So if you have the means and the resources and ability, I definitely suggest you take that.
00:17:02
Speaker
But took the LSAT, got the application, had to do a personal statement, and I did different versions. I did one that I thought was right. I sent it to a friend of mine, Golden, and she said, Sean, that's not really letting them know who you are. So I started from ground zero, did it all over again.
00:17:24
Speaker
And by the end of it, I really felt that the personal statement was a good depiction of me. And the reason I think I want you to those that are considering going to law school to really consider and spend some time on your personal statement is think about it this way.
00:17:41
Speaker
This is the only time somebody will get to know who you are. You know, the first impressions are the most important, but these individuals, they may never have the opportunity to sit down and meet with you. This is your first time. So what do you want them to know about you? What do you want them to take away?
00:17:57
Speaker
Everybody's going to have a story of overcoming adversity, but what makes yours so much more special and compelling? Think about those things. And that's what I did. And I do believe it worked out. I got in, obviously. But even that was a strange story because I had sent my application off and it was the week before law school. I hadn't received my letter back. I didn't know.
00:18:22
Speaker
So I called my cousin again like, hey, you know, I haven't seen my letter. I don't know. He like just come on down and we'll get this figured out. Exactly. And that sounds like my money. He was not even in Houston. He was on an internship somewhere else. It may have been in Chicago. So two of my other line, me and Brandon's other line brothers,
00:18:43
Speaker
Dwight and Brandon Kiel, we all drove to Houston and we literally drove up to the law school, not having no letter, not having anything, just, I'm here. Mind you, orientation has started, so there's people in class. I'm just showing up and it just so happened the Dean of Admissions was a bruh. I met him and he basically told me, okay, you're in this section and you start Monday.
00:19:11
Speaker
And that's how my law school journey started for me. It was different, like I said, from a lot of other people. So what would be some of those takeaways from my story? I definitely suggest applying to more than one.
00:19:28
Speaker
I also suggest applying to those schools that you think you can't get into because you never know. I don't know whether or not I would have gotten into any other law school. I don't know. Do I believe so? Yeah. But I don't know. I definitely believe if you don't reach higher than what you think you can attain, you'll never know. So I definitely suggest applying more than one and applying to those schools that you think are outside of your reach.
00:19:56
Speaker
Two, take the LSAT prep course. That will be invaluable. Your scores will be higher than otherwise because really what those prep courses will do, it forces you to lock in and study. That's really what it is. And it makes it easier. Instead of trying to eat the elephant all at once, it's one bite at a time. So that's invaluable. So
00:20:21
Speaker
That's what I would suggest and recommend as far as getting to law school. Now, once you're in law school, what does that look like? Well, I can tell you your first year is going to be challenging. For a lot of people, it's the worst year of their life. But I like to think of it as difficult of a time it was. It was one of the best years I've ever had. I enjoyed my 1L year. But I mean, that doesn't say that
00:20:49
Speaker
That doesn't mean that I didn't have my own obstacles because life doesn't stop when you're in law school. You still will have your relationship issues. You still will have your family issues. You will still have just life issues. But one of the benefits of law school is that you will form additional friendships that will last a lifetime.
00:21:09
Speaker
When I went to law school, I thought I had all the friends I needed. I have my frat brothers. I have my friends at FAM. I was good. I wasn't looking to making more friends. I really wasn't. But I've made some friends that are lifelong buddies and
00:21:25
Speaker
I mean, to the extent we've been in each other's weddings, we visit each other in different states. And when things get difficult, there's other people that you can call and reach out to because they understand some of the challenges and struggles that you go through because they're walking the same path.
00:21:43
Speaker
So it is difficult, but they're very fulfilling. My one L year, a lot of my day looked like I would get up, beat a class, class started eight. I mean, class till a five, it wasn't hour after hour, but probably two classes in the morning, two in the evening or an afternoon.
00:22:01
Speaker
Once I got out of class at five, I will go directly to the library. I would stay there until it closed at 12. Once it closed, I would more likely than not either go home or go to a Starbucks or go to another 24 hour library where I could study probably until two. Go to sleep, wake up, do it all over again. That was Monday through Thursday. When it came to Friday.
00:22:27
Speaker
When it time to get off, I gave myself one day that was Friday. And that was only if I could afford it. If I did everything I needed to throughout the week, I would give myself that Friday evening. I would hang with my friends, my family, that was my day. Saturday, wake up, maybe not as early, but as soon as I wake up, I'm studying all day. I study till at least five, six, then maybe relax that afternoon again with family, friends.
00:22:53
Speaker
Sunday, wake up, if I didn't go to church, study, and now I'm preparing for the next week. Any given day for one class, I might have to read 200 pages worth of different cases. So that's why I had to spend so much time. Now does everybody do it that way? No. But what I didn't want to look back on
00:23:16
Speaker
If I was not successful, think about what else could I have done? Because by the end of my 1L year, I knew I did everything I could. So that 1L year is going to be very, very challenging. You're going to learn about yourself and you're going to know whether or not you're going to make it through law school. That is going to be the year a lot of people decide if it's for them or not.
00:23:38
Speaker
And then going into the second year is better. It's better because now you have the ability to pick and choose the classes that you want. There's still some classes that you have to take that year, but you have more free will. That 1L year, you're taking a designated set of courses. You're going to take contract.
00:23:56
Speaker
You're going to take evidence, you're going to take criminal law, you're going to take torts, you're going to take property, you're going to take civil procedure and legal research are some of the predominantly classes that you're going to take. Like I said, 2L year, there'll be some different levels of some of those same classes.
00:24:13
Speaker
But there'll be other classes that you can take, such as constitutional law and things that might intrigue you a bit more, such as business law, different things. Your schedule isn't going to be as demanding. Whether or not you decide to study the same way will be on you. I didn't study the same way all the time.
00:24:30
Speaker
I still put in hours and just because of the way my schedule was i would be done with my week by thursday so my weekend will start on a thursday so we had a lot more time to spend with each other but your focus kinda changes your second year because now you have the ability
Internships and Career Aspirations
00:24:48
Speaker
to be.
00:24:48
Speaker
engaged in law review or mock trial or moot court or different organizations on campus. But you're also trying to set up your internship going into your second year. Fortunately enough, after my 1L year, I had the ability to clerk for a
00:25:05
Speaker
Uh, brilliant, brilliant criminal defense, uh, criminal defense attorney by the name of Norm Silverman. Some of the things I learned from him, uh, during that summer, I have taken with me to this day. Uh, and the reason in which I, uh, meticulously go over documents is because of what I learned then, uh, after my second year, uh, again, because I had the goodwill and good fortune of a dad that was a lawyer. I worked for my dad for that summer. I did criminal defense work.
00:25:35
Speaker
But during my 3L year, I interned with the Harris County District Attorney's Office and that kind of sparked my desire to go into work for the DA's office. The criminal defense or the criminal justice system is something I've always been interested in. I thought at that time I wanted to go into the system so I could make changes within the system. I thought it was one thing to fight against it, but another to be a part and to try to change.
00:26:04
Speaker
idea at that time was to start the DA's office in Harris County and then to go into the US prosecutor's office. That was my plan. As I indicated, God had a different plan that I now appreciate even more. But that's kind of what you have to look forward to in law school. Your 3L year is going to be more relaxed. Second year, you're looking at internships. Third year, you're trying to hopefully find a way to
00:26:34
Speaker
get you a job offer. But one thing I can say about the legal career, unlike many other degrees, professional or doctor degrees,
00:26:44
Speaker
With that degree, you are a walking business. You can stand on the corner and you can get business. There's not many professional degrees where you have that ability. Even with a medical degree, you still need others. You still need a place where you can do your practice. But with a law degree, you can do that from your house, from your car, from anywhere.
00:27:08
Speaker
It doesn't matter how you start because this degree will give you the ability to do things and walk into rooms 10 years from when you start that you could never imagine. Wow. Well, thank you for that thorough explanation.
00:27:24
Speaker
What my key takeaway was from all of that is you need to be prepared to work. So for any young people listening to this, the fact that you might not have gotten the letter or the acceptance doesn't mean you quit. So I love the fact that you all just drove up to the school and found the right person to talk to.
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah. And I believe that we have to do, whether it's if there's something that you have to go and take it. ago, uh, championships ar you know, aren't one the do believe that if you w to succeed, you have to a to all the options and out there because it's not to you one. And then when
00:28:15
Speaker
But you are really fighting even a higher burden, if I can put it that way.
00:28:24
Speaker
Definitely, for sure. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. So, you know, a lot of your work or not all of your really has been about focusing on the individual, whether it's in criminal law or personal injury law, you focused on the individual versus maybe going into corporate law. And so I imagine you think that that how will you know that that has an outsized
00:28:47
Speaker
value to society versus going into a business. Can you talk a little bit about the value when you were focused on an individual through criminal law, personal injury law? Can you talk about the value that you are bringing to that person or to that society that you appreciate more versus going into corporate law? That's a very good question.
00:29:09
Speaker
like to think of myself as someone that has always been people driven. I think back to like when I said when I was in high school, excuse me, my first job was at a shoe store. I really enjoyed helping people and I really gave all that I could to the extent where people were giving me cash tips because of how much I helped them. Who knew?
00:29:36
Speaker
I'm getting a swig water, sorry. But I was always, I've always been people driven. And because of that, I've kinda, even when I was in undergrad, that's kind of where I found myself. Never really sought out leadership, but I sought out opportunities to help others, which in a way kind of have always led me to those types of positions. The reason I think I'm so people driven is because
00:30:05
Speaker
of just my life experiences. I know that I am not where I am today without people investing in me. And because people invested in me, I have an obligation to invest in others. Sometimes that is mentorship, but sometimes a majority of the time that is the career path that I have taken. Are there ways that I could be making a lot more money? I'm sure.
00:30:35
Speaker
Would I have been as fulfilled as I am now? Probably not.
00:30:41
Speaker
I know there are friends and family that have had encounters with the legal system in different ways. And some of the experiences they have had is that the person that was representing them really didn't care about them. They were just a way to a means. And I never wanted to be that type of person.
00:31:06
Speaker
those that I represent to feel and know more importantly is that when I am your lawyer, I am doing everything I can for you and more importantly for your family, because I recognize what I'm doing in these moments, they have a lasting impact. Everybody that I represent, everybody that I represent, what I'm handling for them is the most important thing in their life at that time.
00:31:33
Speaker
And I recognize that and I appreciate that. So it's not a situation where you're just a client. You're not just a defendant. You're not just a plaintiff. You're a person that have real life experiences that have come to me to help them in a situation where they don't know what else they can do or where they can go. So I believe
00:31:54
Speaker
with the career path that I have chosen. It's really a gift God gave to me and it's my ministry. I would like to believe while
00:32:03
Speaker
everybody will go about their practice of law the same way as me. I recognize everybody does it. So it's my responsibility and obligation to share and give others an experience that will push back against some of the assumptions people might have. So when somebody might hear that
00:32:24
Speaker
Oh man, quarter pointed attorneys, they're not working for you. They'll never go above and beyond. There's going to be somebody say, well, that wasn't my experience. I had somebody that didn't treat me any different than anybody else that went above and beyond that gave us all that really cared about me, not only in that moment, but what I was going to do after today. When you have
00:32:46
Speaker
people saying that personal injury attorneys are only money hungry and really just trying to get to the next book that I will have had a client that will be able to push back and say nope not the one I've had the one I had actually cared about me and my family and then wanted to hear the stories about what it was like
00:33:03
Speaker
when I wasn't able to sleep at night and I had to sleep in a chair and what my future was going to look like in the days knowing that I had pain and he made sure that those that were accountable for this understood my story. That's why I do what I do because at the end of the day, if I ever find myself on the opposite end of the stick, that's the type of attorney that I want.
00:33:27
Speaker
Wow, that's great. Respect. And they're so fortunate to have someone like you representing them, because as you mentioned, not everyone practices that way.
Attorney Pay and Career Insights
00:33:38
Speaker
I've always been curious about the pay structure for attorneys. So you mentioned you could be making a lot more money in some other sort of practice. So right now in the role you're in,
00:33:51
Speaker
Is your pay structure salary and a portion of settlements, or is it just 100% a portion of the settlement that you get for your clients, and how is that decided?
00:34:05
Speaker
Very, very good question. And because of my experience, I'm going to kind of answer this in two ways. One, before I joined a firm, a large firm at that, I was in a solo or small practice with my dad and I. And that's one of those situations you eat what you kill. When I came into practicing with my dad,
00:34:29
Speaker
I had the opinion or the assumption, I thought, I'm his son, my dad, oh, he's just gonna give me clients and I'll be able to, I'll be all right. My dad, he taught me the importance of getting up, working hard, going to get business and doing a good job. Because if you do a good job for one person, that creates a great opportunity for that person to pass on your contact to another and get you more business.
00:34:56
Speaker
So coming in my first couple of years, you know, I didn't do well. And let me take that back. Not that I didn't do well. I didn't make as much money as I thought I was. Right. And then you have to consider the market that you're in. And I was fortunate for that because while some of my classmates that graduated were in some of the larger cities and in the solo practice, such as myself, depending on what type of practice they wanted to have,
00:35:21
Speaker
they would have been competing with many, many, many more people. I was in a situation where there was still quite a few people that I was competing against, but I was in a smaller market. I had a professor in law school, my property professor, she taught me, she told us, she said, if you really want to make money quick, what you need to do is go to a smaller community and set up shop because you can be
00:35:47
Speaker
the only attorney out there and you will do well. It's one of those situations where I've been told by many mentors is that you can what they say you could be a big fish in a big pond or big fish in a small pond. It's up to you. I understood that didn't really appreciate it until I got older. But starting out
00:36:09
Speaker
of practice when you're having to kind of get it from the ground up. And I was doing pretty much everything. I was doing criminal. I was doing family. I did some wills and probate. I wasn't doing personal injury at that time because I honestly, I didn't think I could. I already knew in my mind I wanted to do criminal, never really even
00:36:29
Speaker
thought about personal injury at that time. So it took some time to get the wheels rolling. Once I started developing a reputation, the practice started to grow more and more. As you get better at your skillset, you can start commanding a fee structure that others coming into it might not be able to. But at the same time, because my reputation at that time,
00:36:55
Speaker
I started or I became one of the contract attorneys for one of the felony courts out here in Jefferson County. So what that meant is that now every month I knew I had some a certain amount guarantee coming in and that was substantial for my practice at the time because now
00:37:12
Speaker
I knew I could always cover my overhead instead of always worrying what type of month we were going to have or what season we were entering because all seasons aren't the same as far as your practice and what you bring in.
00:37:28
Speaker
Once I had that contract with the county, that allowed me to kind of start changing the way in which I wanted my practice to be. Because in the ideal world, when I was in solo practice, when I had my criminal practice, really what I wanted, I wanted to get to a position where I was able to make enough of money so that I could start picking and choosing the cases that I wanted.
00:37:52
Speaker
that was always what my structure was. Now, coming into a law firm, it is different, it is different. And we'll talk about that in three different ways. You can go into working for the government, you can go into a personal injury law firm, or you can go to what we consider some of the big firms, your Vincent and Elkins, those type of firms, your Sidley Austin's, that are representing corporations.
00:38:19
Speaker
Coming out of law school, joining those firms, you are in the very, very, very high six figures. Mind you, you don't know anything. A lot of times it's simply because the school you may have come out of or you may have graduated at the top of your class, but when it comes to the practice of law, while you may understand the coursework, you really don't know anything. So you're coming in old situations, you're getting a buttload of money, but again, you're going to be
00:38:49
Speaker
generally drafting a lot of documents, reviewing a lot of documents, doing a lot of the grunt work. You won't get into the courtroom for a while. That's just the nature of it. Going into the government, obviously you're not going to be on a pay scale where you will be able to drive the Ferraris and all that type stuff. But I would like to say that the work you're doing is fulfilling and it's needed because it's the government workers, the government attorneys
00:39:19
Speaker
in large part that help keeps the wheels turning of this country. Now, do I believe there are some things we could do to improve that system? Yes, obviously, but I do recognize how important and how much of a sacrifice it is for them, because a lot of those individuals that have, for example, gone into the DA's office, they could have chosen to go into private practice where they could make more money. They could have chosen to go to a bigger firm where they could have made more money, but they've made a choice to work for the government
00:39:48
Speaker
uh, to help, uh, protect the community. And I appreciate that. Um, so you will be able to make at least a good solid foundation. You won't have those same concerns of somebody that's in a private practice that is every month thinking about, I have to bring in certain amount of cases so that I can cover my overhead. When you're working for the government, you know what you're going to get and you're going to have benefits. Uh, but then now shifting to kind of the situation that I'm in,
00:40:17
Speaker
Here at the firm, there's three different levels. There's an associate, there's a non equity partner, and then there's equity partners. As an associate, you're going to get a salary, but you won't be able to make any money off of any of the fees or cases that you settled throughout the year. That is the downside. But the upside obviously is that now you're in a situation where you have a salary, you have benefits,
00:40:42
Speaker
You don't have to worry about overhead. You come to work, you leave. That's a good situation. Now, when you become a non-equity, things change. Not only do you have a salary that is increased, so you know you have a good, solid foundation, still don't have to worry about the overhead, still have good benefits. But the difference is, now I have the ability to
00:41:07
Speaker
receive a portion of the money that I bring in throughout the year. But every firm is different in how they structure their bonus system. And that's what we're talking about, anything on top of your salary. Here at this firm, which is different from a lot of places, and I really, really appreciate it, is that
00:41:28
Speaker
In order to get to your bonus, you have your overhead, but you have to cover your overhead by two. So that means whatever my salary is, I have to make that by two times. But I'm also responsible for my assistant's overhead. So whoever I have worked for me, underneath me, I have to bring in at least two times of their overhead.
00:41:49
Speaker
Now, once I bring in or meet at least that amount of money, now I'm getting into the bonus. Let's say I have a year, a bad year, where I never get to that point where I don't cover my overhead. Here at this firm, fortunately, I don't have to pay back anybody. I just don't make a bonus that year.
00:42:06
Speaker
But let's say I do get to a point where I cover my overhead. The first $100,000 over that, there's different breakdowns of percentages of what you get of that amount of money, of that fee credit. And let me say it this way because it can get a little bit confusing. Let's say I settle a case and the attorney fees is $30,000. I don't get all of that $30,000 as far as my fee credit.
00:42:35
Speaker
Now, the firm gets that money, but the credit that goes to me, I don't get all of that. I get a portion of that. If I brought the case in, if I originated it, I get an additional portion of that. So even though I may have brought in 30,000 to the firm, I'm not going to get 30,000 worth of fee credit, if that makes sense. So what we're talking about is fee credit, and that's what your bonus is structured off of. So once I cover my overhead of that portion of my fee credit, the initial 100,000 has its own mathematical
00:43:05
Speaker
calculation of what I would get off of that fee credit. But once I clear that initial 100 over my overhead, the sky's the limit. The percentage of what I can make goes up, but there's no cap on what I could make. So if I brought in $20 million in fee credits in a year, Lord Brooklyn, I would love that, that type of year.
00:43:29
Speaker
that that salary structure of what I could make would be substantial. Now, not all firms are structured this way. Some firms are set up where if you haven't covered your expenses, meaning if I spent 10,000 on the case and I didn't, I didn't make any money off of it. And let's say I made 30,000 in a case before I get any of my money, I have to pay them back what I, oh, meaning the expenses.
00:44:00
Speaker
here at this firm, the way it's structured, it's not like that. So it's very, very incentive, incentivized for me to try cases, to go in and work as much as I can. And that's why I appreciate working at a firm like Provo or something.
00:44:17
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Take Your Homeboy to Work Day podcast.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:44:20
Speaker
This concludes part one. Check back in on Friday for part two. But before you go, we need your help to spread our message. So please subscribe, like, and rate five stars wherever you get your podcast and on LinkedIn at Take Your Homeboy to Work Day podcast. Thank you.