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7. Are We Anti-Small Business? Exposing the Myths and Realities
69 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of the Exposeco podcast, Brian and Paul tackle a burning question from a critic, Tim from Garden City, Michigan: "Are we anti-small business?" Join us as we dive into the pros and cons of small businesses versus big corporations in the contracting world. With Paul’s 20+ years of experience in the industry, we share real-world stories, debunk common misconceptions, and offer practical tips to protect consumers from potential pitfalls. Whether you’re a homeowner or just curious about the balance between big and small businesses, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to Exposed Code Podcast. This is Brian. I'm here with my co-host, Paul.
Are We Anti-Small Business?
00:00:20
Speaker
Paul, how are you tonight? doing great doing great excited for the night nice nice okay well today we're diving into something that we've never done before we're gonna be talking about ah one of our followers those who follow us on social media he's been asking some good questions it's Tim from Garden City Michigan And he's objected on a few different platforms just to the point that he believes that we are anti-small business. And so I thought tonight this would be a great time to dive into this question. Are we anti-small business?
Pro-Consumer Philosophy
00:00:54
Speaker
we We're being pretty explicitly pro-consumer. And he's not the only one who's asked us this question. So we wanted to dedicate this episode tonight to Tim. Thank you for ah being a part of Expose Go podcast.
00:01:06
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Tim. We always enjoy getting feedback from our followers and and different people out in the the marketplace.
Small vs Large Business Experiences
00:01:14
Speaker
Just want to make sure that we're conveying ourselves accurately and and we're not steering what we're trying to do wrong, the people that werere we're trying to Help out the one steering in the wrong direction think that we're pro massive corporations taking over small mom and pops yeah so i think this is this is a great time because i think it's very much the opposite of what we believe in expose co being a contractor myself for seventeen years and being a small business.
00:01:42
Speaker
And even after that 17 years was relatively considered a small business, not a large corporation. Before we ah got out of the contracting industry, realized a lot about small businesses and and the benefits to small businesses over the years and the differences from small businesses to large businesses. The thing about large businesses is they are going to project a lot more of a security to the consumer and They're going to have a lot more polished sales skills and they're going to a lot ah lot of times be a lot more expensive as well.
Marketing Strategies of Big Businesses
00:02:16
Speaker
They also usually have a large marketing budget to go along with it. So it's not uncommon that a lot of consumers just fall into the trap of getting three bids from three large companies and they end up overpaying because they are only getting proposals from three really large corporations that they're all spending significant amount of money on marketing.
00:02:40
Speaker
and also overhead expenses and so forth and i said expose that's why we exist we exist to let the consumer know that you don't have to accept that you don't have to necessarily know that there is small businesses out there that will give you a way better deal and do a way better job in these larger companies.
00:02:59
Speaker
because we have the experience and the expertise to be able to point you in the right directions to say your proposals are way out of line you should probably look at going with a smaller mom and pop shop that's part of our are actually advice and our process is that when we see a project that is costing a lot more than we expect it to cost.
00:03:19
Speaker
and think it should cost based on our analysis and our expertise of what things cost in the marketplace. We're able to point you, the consumer, in the direction of a small business to a lot of times save a significant amount of money because you're not paying for the overhead expenses and the millions of dollars you're spending in marketing to capture those clients.
00:03:39
Speaker
So really, I mean, us at Exposco, we we're here to make sure that you're getting the right deal. And I mean, am I saying today that there's not large companies out there that will give you a good deal?
Retail vs Contracting Pricing
00:03:50
Speaker
No, I'm not saying that. But my experience in the marketplace is that the larger companies are usually more expensive. And, you know, when I come across a couple of proposals, and they're all from large companies, and they're all seem to be a lot, lot more expensive than a project should be.
00:04:04
Speaker
We're going to give the advice to, hey, you should probably call a smaller mom and pop and get a proposal from them to do a comparison and point them in that direction to see if that's an option that they want to go and save some money. So with that being said, I think big business has some advantages. There's also a lot of advantages to mom and pop, small businesses that take a personal interest into your project and you're not just a number and quite a bit of times there's ah there's a lot of savings that comes along with that as well because they are smaller. so that That's a quick explanation as far as our view on small business and big business. But like we said, there's there's no exact written rule to um everybody's situation. There's different companies that fit with different projects. And yeah, there's there's a lot that goes into it. People tend to think of big business like Walmart, Amazon, Home Depot.
00:04:56
Speaker
You think that those big retailers that can buy things in bulk so therefore you get cheaper prices than say like your average corner store plumbing store or whatever because they buy in bulk. But that how is that not the case in heating and air conditioning you are by choosing to go with a bigger vendor oftentimes actually paying more.
00:05:18
Speaker
rather in the retail market, when you go with someone bigger, it's oftentimes you're paying less. So do you get what I mean? Yeah, no, totally. And in the retail side of things, obviously, businesses are buying power. Well, and the contracting side, that's that that is the same as well. Like big companies are able to buy equipment at a lower price than this these mom and pop because they're buying so much equipment.
Training vs Personal Care in Business
00:05:42
Speaker
But also the mom and pops are in the day to day, they're running a lot more lean.
00:05:47
Speaker
meaning they they have a lot less people that are in their office space. A lot of times the owners out there actually ah selling the jobs. They don't have multiple support staff for different layers of ah quality control, management, human resources. A lot of times there's um a lot of hats being worn by one or two people in in those businesses. which makes those businesses, they run a lot with a lot less overhead. And in turn, they find themselves not having to have to charge as much or just by the way they run their business, they that's what they feel is a fair fair market value for their services.
00:06:23
Speaker
Now, when you get into the big business stuff, a lot of times there, they have investors to to answer to, to make sure that they hit certain profit margins. There's a lot less personalized. There's not as much personal care going and into your pricing, into your your project. it's It's more of a, what can we get it for the most we can get it for and let's do the job.
00:06:44
Speaker
Not to say that big businesses don't do a good job because my experiences, these larger companies, they're hit or miss.
Consumer Skepticism and Bidding
00:06:52
Speaker
Some of them are fantastic. They have amazing training for their employees that small businesses don't have where you have highly skilled people being able to perform the services in your home because the big business has been able to invest in their employees and smaller businesses find it hard to do that. But there's also small time companies that are family operated that the son or the daughter or whoever is is being groomed up to take over the business has been doing the job and they care about it. They know their names on it and they do a fantastic job doing the installation or the repair, whatever you're having them.
00:07:27
Speaker
hired for. so it's Like I said, it's never a one size fits all type of situation, but you've got to really be able to understand that there is a significant difference in those two situations. A lot of times it can be a big financial difference too. so That's why we're here, is we're here to guide you to make sure that you're not getting taken advantage of by big business. More rare, but small business sometimes does that too. So there's sharks everywhere in the water when it comes to contracting. That's why we exist. I knew it from when I was in contracting. I saw it all the time. People were engaging in and different sales tactics were that were, frankly, high pressure, greasy. And that's why we started this is because
00:08:15
Speaker
We're passionate about making sure that you have experience on your side and it's not just a let's trust a salesman that's that's in my home right now. When we get down to it, right there's no there's no exact answer whether we're pro small business or pro big business, but I can tell you what, we're skeptical about all business. and If you've got three big business bids, we're going to suggest you get a fourth bid from a small business and you need to mix that in. You need to get a little bit of everything.
00:08:44
Speaker
You need to have an idea of what you like and what you want, what type of service, level of service you're going to get. And we're going to help you make that decision and make sure that whoever you choose is actually doing right by you and not overcharging you. That's so key is we aren't pro big business. We're not pro small business.
00:09:04
Speaker
per se, because that's not what we're trying to be as a company. We're trying to be pro consumer. We're trying to be pro homeowner. And if that means um choosing a big business, then that's what that means. And if it means going with the small guy, it's just on a case by case basis. But I know for a fact, ah from your past and in your 20 plus years of being in the industry,
00:09:27
Speaker
that you do care deeply about small businesses because the reason why you're in this industry is because you got your start as a small business owner and you grew a business and you even after your business became a big business there was other people who are part of your business you help them to get their businesses started and so you've been there in.
00:09:47
Speaker
In this you've been the small guy you've been the big guy now you're in the firm corner of of the consumer the homeowner and i think that's kind of interesting that you bring that perspective and you're saying it doesn't really matter.
Risks with Small and Large Businesses
00:10:00
Speaker
if they're big or small, like they could be a shark either way. And I guess one of the things that we want to do one day in our podcast is have the war stories. I'll tell you that the only time which I was genuinely stolen from in a heating air conditioning situation was from a small business owner. They asked for the money upfront for the purchase of an air conditioning unit. They needed it in order to get the unit. And that's what they said. And we trusted this person. They gave us the best price. So it was like we saved a few grand going with this small business owner. But the guy took our money and hightailed it.
00:10:39
Speaker
He left well he did part of one of the job that we had but the other part he just ghosted us on and since he was a small business owner he just let his business go um he was gone and we were left with our our hands like in our pockets with nothing to do that that's kind of one of the dangers of of the possibility of that.
00:11:00
Speaker
Whereas in a big business, you do have a little bit more leverage because that there's staying power in that company is not going to likely ghost you completely, but maybe they will. Yeah. So there's risk in everything, but a large company, they can have really poor service and a extremely frustrating service where they may seem like they're ghosting you and they just actually just have such disorganization. I've seen that I've experienced that where you have a large company. Yeah. They don't, they don't collect anything upfront, but.
00:11:29
Speaker
They're, they're terrible about returning their phone calls. The people that work there aren't necessarily team players. They're not, they're not happy about where they're working. So they don't really care as much about the customers of that company. So, I mean, yeah, that's something for sure. That's where I go back to my exposed go tip of the day, where you don't pay your contractor upfront. I mean, it's, it's so crucial. I'm going through a war story right now, but I'll, I'll share that with on a later podcast about something that I'm going through right now, as far as, uh,
00:11:57
Speaker
paying some funds up front on a job and it wasn't even for air conditioning. We'll see what how the story ends. So I'll be excited to tell that one once it's done. But yeah, I mean the small business guys, you've paid people up front. There's no incentive for them to be prompt unless they're worried about getting a bad review or a bad reputation.
00:12:15
Speaker
so I stand by my comments when it comes to paying your contractor when you're satisfied with the project.
Advice Against Upfront Payments
00:12:22
Speaker
You know what? The majority of small business owners, it's part of a business to be able to get a line of credit.
00:12:28
Speaker
or whatever it takes to to be able to purchase the materials to do the project. And a lot of times on these residential projects, the project is only a turnaround of three to five days. So if they don't have the credit to be able to to purchase the materials for the job and then pay that credit off with the money that that you give them for a satisfied installation, I would kind of second guess as far as the quality of the company if they're not that organized.
00:12:56
Speaker
So it goes to say like small businesses. Yes, you have to start somewhere. Believe me. I started, it was just me in a van by myself doing service jobs. and I was taking on the jobs that I could take on. I wasn't getting too big for my britches. I was actually doing projects that I could afford to do. And from the get go, I did not collect money upfront.
00:13:18
Speaker
I literally worked for somebody saved up enough money to start the business when i started the business that means i had several thousand dollars in an account to be able to pay off paper material up front before i did the jobs for these people and what that did is it it instilled trust in my customer base that hey.
00:13:37
Speaker
I don't need your money until I'm completely done and you're completely satisfied. So I'm going to provide a service and provide a great service. and That's putting a lot of confidence in consumers and the majority of small businesses, you know there's there's an argument to saying consumers can be difficult at times. so that's ah That's a true statement as well. I mean i was on the contracting side. there is ah you know You're dealing with people all the time and you're dealing with a a very intricate situation a lot of times. and Sometimes there there can be where customers are just, they're hard to deal with. But if you are
00:14:10
Speaker
a good small business you do what it takes to make them happy at the end of the day and you know what you you work with those people and you get the job done you do it right and you make sure that you do them right and you get a good review at the end of the day and you move on to the next one and you keep performing, you treat people how you want to be treated. In the end, I mean, the fact that being not pro small business is I just don't understand so much the comment other than the fact if if he's regarding the deposits is a must for a small business, I would refute that and say, if you're a small business and you require to have a significant amount of money upfront,
00:14:49
Speaker
I would reevaluate why do you need that significant amount of money upfront if you're an established small business. there's There's many means to be able to make sure that the finances are there in order to start a project and finish it prior to getting paid. Obviously, you can take progress payments, but they need to be legitimately tied to a scope of work that's been completed. So like if they show up and they do 90% of the job,
00:15:17
Speaker
and they have to come back for the for putting a piece in that is a special order item, but the air conditioner's working. I mean, I have no qualms at paying them 80% of the job, giving them 80% of the the job that you agreed upon, given give them all that money and leave 20% for them for when they finish. And that's that's just smart. If you pay them 100% and all of a sudden it gets really busy and it's the middle of summer, I mean, you live in you live in Chandler,
00:15:46
Speaker
If they started your job in springtime and it was mild out and then all of a sudden your heat wave hit and you have paid them 100%, do you think you're going to be a high on their priority list to come out and finish your job? No, I hate to say it, but the contractors a lot of times are not the most organized people and they're going to go after the money. So the majority of the time. I mean, I'm not saying everybody's money hungry. There's good people everywhere.
00:16:11
Speaker
There's also not so that's why we exist we know that we've heard and experienced the horror stories seen firsthand what was done to people and that's why we exist we exist to protect you the consumer to make sure look let's just be smart about it let's save everybody a headache and everybody wins everybody wins I love that. you You know, from the business standpoint, a lot of what I've seen the contractors try to do is they want to capture your business. So they're glad to to get that contract signed. If they can get 50% or 25% upfront so that they guarantee you have skin in the game, they will. You don't have to do that. You know, people don't realize how much power they have.
00:16:54
Speaker
Contractors will do a lot in order to earn the customer's business. I think that's one thing I'm learning from you and your experience, but you know, a lot of times they'll start a project and if you've paid a lot or a significant amount, they'll start your project and then they'll disappear for two weeks. And because they've started that project, you're on the hook, but then they're gone. They're capturing other business in the other areas. And then when they have a moment and they're not starting new gigs or whatever.
00:17:21
Speaker
they'll work on yours and i've seen that time and time again in my own personal life they want to capture the business so they'll tear apart the floor that they're going to be tiling and then where are they for the next four days you know my house is in a construction zone and they're not working so i think that that's something that we're trying to make people aware of like this is a real thing that's going on And the reason why you definitely don't want to shell out money until that job is done, you want to make the the contractor kind of feel the need to be on top of the project, which they're guaranteeing that they're going to do, like keep them honest.
00:17:56
Speaker
I mean, I've dealt with large companies that, you know, that have tried to collect money upfront.
Identifying Payment Red Flags
00:18:02
Speaker
And I've told them, no, I won't pay until you guys are you guys are 100% done. I mean, the job's not a long job. So you shouldn't shouldn't be a big worry to you. I have no problem. I'll pay you the day that it's done. I will write you a check. You'll be all good. And so but I've had it where large companies, they become flaky after they get paid. I mean, it's large and small. I wouldn't say it's the rule that people are flaky after they get paid, but it's also not the exception either. So there's a good chance that if somebody's asking for money upfront, that should be a red flag to you. To me, that's a red flag. If somebody asks for money upfront, it's the people that don't ask for money upfront that I'm not skeptical of at all. Because to me, they have no worry about getting paid at the end of the day because they're going to do right by me anyways.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's the guys that need to have money up front are the ones that I'm worried about. Like, do you guys, why do you need this money? And am I ever going to see you again after I give it to you? That's why why we exist, right? Is we're we're we're protecting consumers from those people that will ghost to you. I mean, we're literally here to make sure that you don't get taken advantage of price wise, you get what you need as far as product and quality, and then on top of it, we're making sure that the job gets done. There's probably a whole conversation we could have from the contractor side, how they would protect themselves from a homeowner who decides not to pay or doesn't like gets the job or get, you know, hires them, but then doesn't really have the means to pay for the job. There's other protections that contractors can use.
00:19:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Uh, there's simple protections. I know California, I mean, you can put a lien on somebody's house. So, and it's very easy to do that. You can literally put a lien on somebody's house, which that means if you don't pay, then you can't sell your house. You can't refinance your house. And the bank knows that, Hey, there's a creditor that is knocking on our door telling us that you owe money.
00:20:01
Speaker
And we can't do anything with your loan. We can't do anything with the papers on your house until this, this lien is
Consumer and Contractor Protections
00:20:09
Speaker
paid off. So that is it from a homeowner's perspective, that can be a a scary thing. If you get a lien put on your house, obviously from a professional standpoint, it's not as big of a deal as you'd think, but we can get into liens another day. But they definitely, if you're ever trying to, I don't suggest anyone ever stiff a contractor. If a contractor has not done right by you, I would definitely try to work it out through means of arbitration or something like that. It's just.
00:20:37
Speaker
nobody wins by taking advantage of those situations. And a lot of times just having a sitting down and actually having a sit down conversation with somebody will work things out significantly and for the better. So yeah, we at Xposedco don't want you guys to have to get in that situation. And literally with proper pre-planning and just vetting of companies and and proposals and strategies, we almost eliminate the possibility of that happening just by experience and and knowing what that looks like and and being able to see the those the red flags and and know and to be able to steer you in the right direction. We're strictly here to make sure that you're
Engaging with the Podcast Community
00:21:17
Speaker
protected. We're not on the contractor side of things at all. you know It's not that we don't care about contractors, it's just that we're here to look out for your best interest. That's why we're hired.
00:21:26
Speaker
Really paid by you. Yeah, so that was a great um question and conversation started by Tim from Garden City, Michigan. If you are a listener and you are not on our social media pages, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we are on X. We would love it if you would join our conversation. If you have thoughts or comments or questions,
00:21:46
Speaker
We would love it if you would post those and and maybe they'll become a topic of conversation in a future podcast. Paul, this has been an interesting conversation at first. It kind of was ah confusing, but you clarified so much for us tonight. Thank you so much for your time. Awesome.