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S02E67: Rapidly Watching Mando: The Finale!
22 Plays6 days ago
We're literally days away from The Mandalorian and Grogu hitting theaters, so it's time to wrap up our Mandalorian rewatch and share our expectations for the film. Join Bob, Phil, and Ben for one last trip through the Mandoverse... This IS the Way!
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Transcript
Mandalorian Rewatch Grand Finale
00:00:00
Speaker
It's almost movie time, so we're wrapping up Armando Rewatch and we're doing it real quick. Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome back to Short for a Stormtrooper and the grand finale of our Mandalorian watch slash rewatch. Phil and Ben are here and we are going to talk about chapter 24.
00:00:29
Speaker
That is season three, episode eight of The Mandalorian, The Return, which was written by Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni. directed by Rick Famuiwa. i It was aired on April 19th, 2023, if anybody is counting.
Episode Recap: Retaking Mandalore
00:00:44
Speaker
And the summary is Bo-Katan leads the Mandalorians in the battle to retake Mandalore.
00:00:50
Speaker
Din Djarin faces Moff Gideon for the last time. And the Mandalorians come home. A very succinct recap on a very action-packed episode. Phil, let's turn to you and get your episode on your first viewing of this. What did you think?
00:01:07
Speaker
Overall, I liked it. I think this is a ah very good finale. it I will say, like, overall, it felt, if ever so slightly shorter than I would have expected from the finale to a season. I think it only clocks in at, ah you know, if not counting credits, maybe youre around like 35 minutes. And some other episodes in the season were maybe more like 45. So I was expecting it.
00:01:30
Speaker
maybe a little bit longer, maybe a little more drawn up, but I do feel like they accomplished a lot here. And overall, I like that we just, you know, it obviously is a continuation from last episode, but we jump right in and there's great action sequences and there's great stakes. And there's some really, I think, emotionally resonant, interesting, exciting moments. um And overall, I think this is a good way to wrap the
Phil and Ben's Episode Reflections
00:01:54
Speaker
season.
00:01:54
Speaker
um And I'm, I think it it sort of ties a lot of the storylines together. So I'm very curious what they're actually gonna do for the movie coming out May 22nd, not sponsored.
00:02:09
Speaker
Right, yeah I was gonna say, you would think that we're getting money from Disney and Lucasfilm, but we're not. But yeah, yeah hey guys, you know Josh DeMauro, if you're listening, we're happy to even just get free movie tickets. But before we talk more to good old Josh, Ben, what did you think of this episode?
00:02:26
Speaker
I thought succinct was the right word. i agree with Phil. I was yeah surprised it clocked in as short as it did. i kind of wonder, I wonder if really 23 and 24 were kind of just one long script and they found kind of a moment to break it. And they said, cool, we'll stop there. And maybe kind of dressed it up a little bit. ah i I really enjoyed that.
00:02:48
Speaker
We tied up a lot of things. I think that there's a a lost art, friends, to you know sticking the landing, tying up your story threads, yeah and leaving your character in a place where you're going to be happy to revisit them again later, as as we are at the end of this episode.
00:03:04
Speaker
i was talking to my wife about this earlier today, the lovely Carrie, and I said, you know one of the things that's great about this is that You finish watching this, you're not you don't feel like there's some other story that's that you're in the middle of when you're going to see the Mandalorian and Grogu movie. you're You can start that one kind of fresh. The relationships are all kind of set and intact. You don't have any kind of baggage you've got to carry forward. I think it's going to be really good for them you know in a way that... um you didn't really see a whole lot of like in some of the Marvel stuff when they were all kind of interleaved with all the TV shows and you felt like, gosh, I really can't watch this without having watched, you know, three or four other things first. So that was really great. That's all the kind of external stuff though. Can we talk for a moment about how awful it is to have Beskar clad stormtroopers?
00:03:49
Speaker
That is the worst. That's pretty scary. Yeah. so and And also they have the force. Yeah. Well, those are, yeah well, those are Moth Gideon's clones, but yes, that they'll have the force. And I was like, what?
00:04:02
Speaker
They'll have the force? Well, that's if they'd actually been able to carry out the stuff with Grogu, I guess. So I'm glad that didn't occur. He seemed mad that he lost them. I'm going to say, but. That, you know, you bring up something that I think was for, for, one of the most interesting moments of this episode for me, and it it occurred to me kind of in the moment watching it, where Moth Gideon, in his own evil, perverted, despicable way, is mad at Mando for killing his quote-unquote children, right his clones that he has created of himself with the Force. And in the same breath, Mando is trying to save his child, Grogu, from Moth Gideon. And so there's sort of this parallel, good and evil, but like having their...
00:04:46
Speaker
you know having the stakes for their quote-unquote adopted
New Adventures for Din and Grogu
00:04:50
Speaker
children. right Obviously Grogu is Mando's adopted son, and we see that become official by the end of this episode, which is which is great. I really liked that moment. um So that was something that struck me as really interesting in this episode.
00:05:03
Speaker
Did you feel like the stakes for Grogu were especially high when the Praetorians that we saw kill one of the heavy hitters last episode, take him into a closed room and you're like, well, that little guy's going get squished.
00:05:14
Speaker
it was this It was a really scary moment. you know If I didn't know there was a movie coming out with that was called Mandalorian and Grogu, I would be genuinely worried. It could have been a flashback, but no. Yeah.
00:05:27
Speaker
Yeah. That kind of comes back to what we were saying is this episode and this season ends really kind of reset back to the end of episode one of season one. Right? so You've got Din. Well, now they're both Dins, right? You've got Din Djarin and Din Grogu together, and they are ready to go out. Mando's got this new contract with the New Republic. So now they can go out and have the adventure of the week again. And it seems like that's where the movie is going.
Speculation on Mandalorian Movie Impact
00:05:59
Speaker
So I don't know a ton about it. They've been pretty good about keeping something secret. We do know that the Hutts are involved because, of course, we've got Jeremy Allen White from The Bear playing Rod of the Hutt. And we know that the general plot line is Mando hunting down some of the old Imperial warlords. I think it's the the guys that we saw at the beginning of the previous episode on the hologram, that council. Those are the guys that he's going to be hunting down. From what I understand...
00:06:28
Speaker
that this was basically the plot for season four of The Mandalorian, that those scripts have been written. Jon Favreau, I was just reading today, said those scripts are still sitting on my desk. So I think that the general storyline of season four is becoming this movie that's about to come out. And it's going to be interesting to see what happens from here as far as the Mandoverse franchise goes. This does seem to be kind of a ah test balloon that they're flying up. And if this but up quote unquote bombs the way Solo bombed, and I think Solo bombing was
00:07:07
Speaker
was just in comparison to what you expect from a Star Wars movie other than what you expect from most movies, then i think they're just going to scrap the whole Mandoverse and just start over again with with Ryan Gosling and Starfighter coming out next summer.
00:07:23
Speaker
And that all takes place after the sequel trilogy. But if this so interesting yeah yeah if this hits, then I think that we will see it continue. We do know that it's going to continue into Ahsoka season two, and that's going to probably come out sometime this fall.
00:07:39
Speaker
They've announced that Dave Filoni is going to do this wrap up of the whole Mandoverse. Going to be a big movie. Everybody figures it's going to be called Heir to the Empire, which was the name of that first novel about Grand Admiral Thrawn. I would love that.
00:07:54
Speaker
But I was just reading a rumor today that said that if this movie doesn't really hit at the box office, that they may either turn that into a Disney Plus series or abandon it altogether.
00:08:05
Speaker
So it will be very interesting to see what happens. I'll say like Star Wars, and I don't want to get too ahead of because I'm sure we'll talk about the movie a little more. But, you know, I certainly have some reservations about a series being turned into a movie. That's, I think, a whole other thing. But, you know, Star Wars, I think in a lot of ways, from a theatrical point of view anyway, isn't kind of a precarious spot right now. You know, you look at The Rise of Skywalker and how much that movie was – lambasted i mean you know just like people did not like it i mean i i don't recall what its box office turns i'm sure it was pretty good but critically it was really bad and it you know it's sort of i feel like it you know we haven't gotten a star wars movie since it's been seven years right and if this one i personally and it's worrying i think for the mandalorian and grogu's box office returns i don't know
00:08:58
Speaker
what it's going to be because I don't feel like I've been seeing a lot of promotion for it. I don't feel like Pedro Pascal is on the circuit or Jamie Allen White or anybody is really on like the promotional circuit right now. And Disney is a huge machine. It's one of the biggest media conglomerates in the world. And it just doesn't really feel like they're promoting this.
00:09:13
Speaker
I um have to imagine $150 million, $200 million dollar movie um that connects to a lot of other, you know, pieces and TV series that they have in their arsenal. So I'm a little worried for these box office receipts, you know?
00:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, I've got the numbers on that. Let me see if I can find them for the notes. So it is currently tracking for an $80 million dollars opening weekend on Memorial Day weekend, on the four-day opening weekend, which would make it the lowest opening Star Wars movie. So Solo got $103 million, and it's tracking for $80 million. But they said this is the cheapest...
00:09:50
Speaker
Disney era Star Wars film that's been made at 166.4 million. So just a little over half the cost of Solo. Of course, Solo was the movie that they had to make twice with two different sets of directors. So, you know, that caused a little bit of a problem with the process. We don't talk about that. We don't, yeah. ah It's going to be interesting. So this note that I have says,
00:10:15
Speaker
that if it hits 600 million global, it'll be thought of as profitable. If it's 700 750 million, it'll be a clear win and then things will probably continue on.
00:10:27
Speaker
So does this seem like large expectation? Yeah, that's hard for me to imagine it, like even making 500. And I, I'm sure with like, again, like i haven't seen a lot of marketing, but I'm sure they're doing some maybe in more like foreign markets, potentially, like when you consider marketing promotional costs, plus splitting the cost of every ticket sale with a theater, they probably have to make 500 million to break even on this movie. And it's hard for me to imagine it, given, given where I feel like it's at in the public conscious. Look, Star Wars is a huge, huge fan base. There's no denying that. But it's hard to me to imagine that it can make
00:11:02
Speaker
that amount of money easily.
Marketing Strategies and Cultural Perspectives
00:11:04
Speaker
you know, could definitely happen, especially with foreign markets, but we'll see. I just do not understand Disney's philosophy around marketing movies and why you know why do you start hyping up Avengers Doomsday over a year in advance? And like you said, leaving this alone, it seems like they were like, let's go on May the 4th, let's go big blitz on May the 4th, May the 4th be with you, because now we're starting to see a ton of stuff come out around it. And you know yesterday, Harrison and I jumped right on the hu on the hype train by going to Burger King and getting Mandalorian bounty meals, which let me tell you, i really wanted to throw up afterwards. That was a lot of food.
00:11:49
Speaker
it just It was just okay. It was okay. But you know it was fun. It was fun to get on the hype train. And it felt felt like a kid again. So that was fun. but Yeah, it just makes you wonder, what are they thinking? I do think one of the reasons why Solo performed so badly was, number one, when they decided that it was going to be released in the spring instead of Christmas when it was supposed to be. That was Bob Iger's call. And number two, the marketing for it was absolutely horrible.
00:12:16
Speaker
Absolutely horrible. And people just didn't know that it was coming. or what Do you think there were people who maybe weren't ready to see, you know, ah Harrison Ford role being replaced? Because ah that guy's got to be a hard act to follow. You know what i mean?
00:12:31
Speaker
Yes. And that bothers me tremendously. That really, really bugs me. and just That's more about American culture than it is about anything else. I was really ready to see a different actor take that role, just like I'm ready to see a different actor do their take on Indiana Jones. And i wish that we had seen a different actor's take on Grand Moff Tarkin in Rogue One.
00:12:58
Speaker
But we did get that because, you know, it was acted. That part was acted by another actor whose name escapes me right now. that I watched Rogue One this last weekend.
00:13:09
Speaker
It was so great. But i just I lose my immersion when I see that CGI. Grand Moff Tarkin does not work for me. It's almost like when they you know when they do that for a lot of and really interesting like really iconic characters like, i don't know, Luke Skywalker at the end of Mandalorian Season 2. There you go. now for example it really just really took And it really did – I know I said it on the episode when we covered it, but that did really take me out of it.
00:13:35
Speaker
And I'm glad that they didn't revisit that in Season 3 even though they did do it in Book of Boba Fett. You can look at James Bond and Doctor Who as two British franchises where they change the main character and they actually change the character depending on who it is. but But one Bond to another is a lot closer than one Doctor to another, but it can be done effectively. And I wish that people would just let it go.
00:14:01
Speaker
It is sort of, it is sort of really interesting. You bring it up, Bob, about kind of like the American
Significance of the Darksaber's Destruction
00:14:07
Speaker
cultural consciousness around these iconic characters. You know, when Harrison Ford plays a role for 50 years, it's hard to imagine somebody else playing it because, you know, Bond or or like the Doctor, right, those might be five to 10 year runs. Daniel Craig was probably the longest for Bond, but they're not playing it for, you know, three, four or five decades in the same way. So our approach to it is a little different, too.
00:14:32
Speaker
ah Let's talk about a couple of key moments during this episode, though, getting back to the episode. The Darksaber being destroyed. That shocked me when that happened.
00:14:44
Speaker
And I'm trying to decide if I like it or not. So I wonder what you guys think. Did you like that moment or did you not?
00:14:54
Speaker
Maybe so, because in some sense, like... that's just a That's just a kind of a leadership bookkeeping problem. you know like Who defeated who?
00:15:05
Speaker
Who has the right to this thing now? ah Okay, well, whoever that person is, that person is king. you know like how about How about this? How about we just build our society over again and we'll figure something else out? Yeah.
00:15:18
Speaker
Yeah. It did seem like the Mandalorians grew up a little bit in terms of the story of the fact that, yeah, the Darksaber was destroyed, so now nobody has it, but they still elevated Bo-Katan back to leadership over the Mandalorians. So that was that was good for them. But just from the the sheer fantasy aspect of it, it broke my heart a little bit to see the Darksaber break.
Bo-Katan's Role and Leadership Shift
00:15:40
Speaker
is there some you're You're deeper in the lore here, Bob. Is there some like mystic reason why that's a unique thing, or could they make another Darksaber?
00:15:50
Speaker
I think that they could. i think that they could make another Darksaber or some other sigil of Office. We don't know a ton about the Darksaber. We know it was created by Tar Vizsla, who we assume is an ancestor of Paz Vizsla, the giant Mandalorian who died in the last episode, and pre-Vizsla.
00:16:12
Speaker
who was the first Vizsla. And there's where you get the name because it's like pre-visualization, you know, Lucas era creative naming of characters that he created. He was the first Mandalorian Jedi.
00:16:27
Speaker
And I think probably one of the only Mandalorian Jedi because- Is this in comics somewhere or is or was this in Rebels or- Actually, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if we ever saw it. It was talked about in Clone Wars, as I recall.
00:16:40
Speaker
So, yeah, no, I don't think there's anything mystical about it, but okay yeah, it was a little bit shocking to see it squished. that i mean that kind of leads to That kind of leads to the other question I had, which is some of the diatribe about this season of The Mandalorian, why why a lot of people did not like it was because they felt like the central character, who The Mandalorian actually was, switched from being Din Djarin to being Bo-Katan.
00:17:09
Speaker
And that she was really kind of the central character. It was her reestablishment as the Mandalore that was the central theme of this, as opposed to anything really having to do with with Din Djarin.
00:17:21
Speaker
he he got We thought the whole season was going to be about him being redeemed. He got redeemed like two episodes in. The rest was all about setting Bo-Katan back on the crown on the throne. So what do you think?
00:17:34
Speaker
It's really interesting point that you bring up and I hadn't thought about it while watching it, but now looking back, I definitely agree that, I mean, she, she, for all intents and purposes sort of a co-lead of season three, whereas I would describe her as much more supporting role previously. Right. And yeah, it is, I suppose that is a real through line in this. And she is with Mando for most of this season. They are sort of on these adventures together for a lot of it. So,
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, and I, it does, you are right that we don't really see, aside from those sort of first two episodes of of Din being ah redeemed, we don't really see much beyond that as far as progression in his storyline, right? And even with with Grogu too. I mean, Grogu does have some interesting moments, I think, you know, obviously eventually becoming, going from a foundling to an apprentice, right? That's the that the correct terminology. So so that's you know obviously interesting and I'm sure will carry over into the movie, but yeah we don't really see a lot from Mando this season overall.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah. How important is that though? Because let's think back for a minute to the sort of source material here, right? Like the first episode, first season, the immediate vibe you get is this is the man with no name.
00:18:49
Speaker
Eventually he gets a name. Eventually Grogu gets a name, but that's not important right now. The point is when you look at like those old spaghetti Westerns, the old Clint Eastwood trilogy, right? The Sergio Leone movies.
00:18:59
Speaker
that is not a guy who's got a whole lot of character growth. He's a guy who comes into the world and he acts on it. He does his thing. He's cool.
Din Djarin's Character Development
00:19:08
Speaker
Other people like may evolve around him, yeah you know, but he's fun, not because of how he, you know, ah changes as a person, but because of how he doesn't when we throw all these things at him.
00:19:24
Speaker
It's an interesting point, Ben, and I would agree with you, but I feel like the series sets it up in such a way, and it is really playing with those Western dynamics that, like Western movie dynamics that, um,
00:19:34
Speaker
Season 1 and 2, there is a ton of growth in his storyline. So it feels a little odd that we get a little stagnation of that in Season 3. But I feel like 1 and 2 is really about Mando finding his humanity through Grogu, right? He's sort of ah a heartless bounty hunter, but he finds something me to care about and also you know be connected to the broader Mandalorian community. So I feel like we get a lot of really interesting character growth in the first two seasons, but again, not as much in Season 3. Yeah, yeah.
00:20:02
Speaker
yeah I feel like for me personally, i really didn't mind because I have always loved Bo-Katan as a character. And I liked seeing kind of the end of that, what happened with Mandalore, with Mandalore,
00:20:15
Speaker
arc so i was into it and i think that can be a differentiator whether you grew up with well i didn't grow up i was an old man when clone wars came out but you know what i mean uh if you grew up with clone wars that you tended to appreciate this season a little bit more but who knows you think i think good Do you think there could be a Bo-Katan, like a live action spinoff series? I know she features quite prominently in the Clone Wars, but do you think there could be one or do you feel like she has to be a part of the Mandalorian? Do you think she could have her own series in the way, you know, in this live action setting anyway?
00:20:53
Speaker
Maybe, maybe, maybe that would work, but I don't know where they would take it.
Mandalore's Environmental Future
00:20:59
Speaker
Plus, you know, Katie Sackhoff is still fairly young, but Bo-Katan's got to be pretty old at this point because we were seeing her in the Clone Wars, and this is now, what, about 25 years later that this is all happening? So, yeah.
00:21:16
Speaker
I was going to ask, do you, or I should say it this way, I'll comment. I think that the the way you were describing it, Bob, in terms of being interested in the Mandalorians in general and Bo-Katan as a character, all that kind of stuff, my sense is that that's probably Filoni's hand at work in the scripts for this season, right? I mean, he likes all of it. So for him, I don't think it's so much a... ah old school ah Hollywood marquee who's at the top of the of the list. And we've got to make sure that person gets 70% of the screen time. um
00:21:49
Speaker
I think he probably wants to see the world expand. I think he told a great story about how Mandalore is resettled. And um one thing I was going to ask you is there's a little scene where they find a kind of oasis or a whole bunch of green natural growth. Yeah. And the guys that have been there for a while, they say, well, you know, this stuff grows everywhere. And Bo-Katan is like, I didn't know there were still green on this planet. And he's like, yeah, no, it's always been around, but it just needs room to grow at this point. And we kind of get this little hopeful note, maybe that, that Mandalore as a planet can be recovered. It can, it can regrow and heal. Do you think there's a
00:22:30
Speaker
Do you think there's a kind of story here that that connects to that? Or do you think we're goingnna see more of that kind of stuff down the road? I would love to see a healthy Mandalore later. i don't know if I'm that interested in the story of how it becomes green again.
Conclusion and Series Reflection
00:22:49
Speaker
That's a little bit out of the, you know, the the zeitgeist of what Star Wars would be about. You'd have to get some. Right. cre I mean, you know, we already have stories about trade disputes, you know, so you know have you just made probably the point of the episode. Yeah. So we could have, we could have, you know, ecological.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah. like lot Like, you know, diversity of the, of the, the fauna coming back, you know, we can see that. Let's be clear. I don't think my suggestion is that we should have a whole eco-tale episode of Star Wars or season. But I i think it's interesting, right? Like we, our our our mental state for all of the Mandalorian stuff is that these people are refugees. They're people from a world that's been destroyed and all that kind of stuff. And I think the the sort of glimmers of what we see in the planet is sort of ah speaking about symmetry again. ah
00:23:39
Speaker
a kind of a metaphor for the fact that, well, the Mandalorian strength itself, the Mandalorians that we meet and who we brought together in this whole thing, it's, they're not wholly gone either. Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:51
Speaker
Well, boys, we are getting close to another double-length episode again, which I kind of expected given that it was the wrap-up of all this. So we better pull it to a close. Just a couple things before we finish. First off, thanks again for doing this with me. It has been great to have you guys walking on this journey with me for the last several months. So appreciate that. And I know I get a lot of really good feedback whenever you guys are on.
Recommendations and Future Discussions
00:24:16
Speaker
So...
00:24:17
Speaker
Well done. This is the way. Happy happy to do this, ah Ben. You took it from me. I'll say it too. This is the way. This is the way. The other thing I want to talk about is with what's next. Of course, the movie is next, but I just want to remind you all, do not sleep on Maul Shadow Lord on Disney+. plus The new animated series, it is by far the best animated series that Filoni has ever done.
00:24:44
Speaker
And like, especially the finale, the finale, you will not breathe through the finale. We'll just leave it at that. It was absolutely amazing. So it is worth, you know it's what I think 10 episodes and they're half hour long.
00:24:59
Speaker
So couple of evenings and you can pin pound it all out. And I highly recommend it. to not just YouTube boys, but to our listeners as well, if you haven't listened. So we will leave it at that. Next time we are on, we will be talking about what actually happens in the movie. Phil's going to be in Greece and we're not going to wake him up at three zero in the morning to join us. So I think Ben and I will just talk about that.
00:25:24
Speaker
ah but we'll have Phil back on and get his reaction later. In the meantime, thanks again for listening. Make sure that you go see this movie, go watch Maul's Shadow Lord, and let's dive back into Star Wars.
00:25:36
Speaker
It's feeling good. We'll talk you soon. May the Force be with you. Who's that mindless choice to do? Podcasts, hope you see them through. Star Wars is your favorite unit.
00:25:48
Speaker
Let's chat for 15 minutes. Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short for a sporn trooper?