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137. Bull, Bear & Beyond – KEFI Gold and Copper executive interview
2 Plays2 months ago
In this interview, KEFI Gold and Copper’s chairman, Harry Anagnostaras-Adams discusses what lies in store for the company after closing $240m in senior project debt capital for its Tulu Kapi gold project in Ethiopia. He also covers why KEFI’s shares have been among the best performers in the sector, more than trebling from their level of 0.44p at the start of the year.
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About ‘Bull, Bear & Beyond’
Bull, Bear & Beyond': features candid conversations with senior executives and from our own team of experts from across industries, exploring strategy, innovation, and the opportunities shaping their markets and 60-second pieces are a compressed summary of content designed to convey our message in a single, easily shareable hit.
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Edison is a content-led IR business. We believe quality investment content should inform all investors, not just brokers. Our mission: engage and build bigger, better-informed investor audiences for our clients.
Edison covers 50+ investment trusts, read about them here: https://www.edisongroup.com/equities/investment-companies/
Original interview published on 29/10/2025 and reposted as a podcast
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Transcript
Gold Investment Surge and Kefi's Success
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Edison TV. Now, we all know that gold has been a fantastic investment. It is up roughly 50% year to date. But what has done better than that? Or, to be more precise, which gold stocks have done better than that? Well, I can give you one. You could have bought Kefi earlier on this year at 0.44 pence a share, and they're now trading at 1.28. would say I'll let you do the math, but actually I'll do it for you. That's up three times in the space that gold has been up
Institutional Support for Kethi Gold and Copper
00:00:42
Speaker
50%. So what is catalyzing this move? Well, joining me now is the chairman of Kethi Golden Copper, Harry Anagnasaris Adams.
00:00:52
Speaker
Harry, thank you for joining us very much indeed.
Risks in Frontier Markets
00:00:55
Speaker
Just talk about through talk us through the catalyst we've seen in the last couple of days. Well, ah Going into a frontier market for our sector ah was fraught with risk, which in hindsight proved proved that it was very challenging, and we but we we managed it.
00:01:17
Speaker
And doing so with all those challenges over the past decade in a very lacklustre gold sector ah I suppose you could say suppress the share price um because of the frustration involved for everybody concerned.
Securing Development Capital for African Project
00:01:36
Speaker
But over the last ah few days, um the yeah fact that we've signed off the offering, accepted the formal offering of debt for 70% of the capital involved with developing the project means that um the the big money the big money, the big institutional money, the safe, highly disciplined, highly due-diligenced money has said that what we've put together is excellent and it's game on for development.
00:02:13
Speaker
So we've the debt offering we've accepted means that 70% of our development budget is covered, means we can round up, well we have rounded up, means we can finish off the equity portion now and start the development of a major gold project.
00:02:31
Speaker
Which I think is probably the highest margin, higher highest return proposition for development, gold development in Africa today.
Focus on Execution and Coordination
00:02:41
Speaker
um So I think what's happened in the last few days is ah the penny's beginning to drop, that the the dark ages are behind us, you know, and um it's sort of game on. into Into the sunlit uplands, as Churchill might have said. Yeah, or you know the train has left the station or or whatever you whatever. Exactly. So what are next steps?
00:03:02
Speaker
Well, yeah you know it's incredibly busy time and we're absolutely flat out. I keep getting asked, have you gone out for a big celebration? Have you had ah you know bottles of champagne? No.
00:03:15
Speaker
Fact of the matter is it's all execution now. It's all execution every day. From the site where the managing director has hosted the construction people out at site for them to you know prepare themselves to mobilise, checking everything, all very happy, all very raring to go.
Finalizing Equity Funding
00:03:38
Speaker
to the lawyers in the the hustle and bustle of the city of London, beating the hell out of each other over the final details, all ready to to the banks, ah basically yeah now that they've signed up, they really just want us to get on with it, and so everyone can make money and get on with it, to the government, to the community, everybody just wants to get on it. So I pivoted in my role.
00:04:05
Speaker
I pivoted straight onto finishing off the equity now. And that's the intense job now. And we've got we've got three big balls in the air, so to speak. I'm not trying to be crude here. But be well done, Edgweitz.
00:04:21
Speaker
but But you know, you've got a mining fund, you've got local fund capital, and you've got what do call A gold streamer.
00:04:34
Speaker
And um they yeah all of them are 50, 60 million dollar people, really. And we only need one of them. And they're all there milling around.
00:04:47
Speaker
and um Can you scale them back a third? Yeah, we can. Are they not up that? Some of them are not so egocentric that you can't massage it a bit, but you couldn't until we we nailed down the dead. And then you nailed that down. you know Having nailed that down, we now have to nail down of those three parties.
00:05:08
Speaker
um That's it really. And and you know jumping on a plane, zipping here, zipping there, closing it off really. That's what we're doing. And um in a month or so, we'll we'll have a big party by the sounds. you a big so A big signing ceremony. so Sorry, bounce away. signing ceremony.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's what we're doing. and I've learned healthy paranoia over the last decade, to be honest, now just to protect the project and survive that the dark ages, as we call them in the sector.
00:05:44
Speaker
not just dark ages, but doing so in a frontier market, doing so under duress at times. So I've learned some healthy paranoia. I've never been in court defending the company before. I've never had to deal with security issues of this nature before, but we've done it all we've built systems around us to tuna to do that going forward.
Overcoming Challenges in Ethiopia
00:06:03
Speaker
Can I ask you to reflect on the highs and lows of the last 10, 12 years? Well, you know, the the most intense moment to me of the whole thing was um when some of our people were kidnapped.
00:06:18
Speaker
And um we um we we took two months to talk them out, basically. We couldn't use money. If you use money,
00:06:29
Speaker
you You're almost a slippery slope. You're being set up as an ATM machine yeah and you can't do that. And it took two months. And that was intense. Talking about human life is a different category of management altogether.
00:06:41
Speaker
um Money and share prices don't even come into the equation. It's protecting people's lives. And that that was that was the most... That was my low moment, if you like, but we did it all all very well and we learned from it and um we know we're a stronger company for it, I could that way, and never again and it's been managed properly.
00:07:04
Speaker
The high point? You know, there's lots of bibs and bobs that add up to the fact that crafting this relationship and this position in Ethiopia the only country in Africa that's never been colonized.
00:07:24
Speaker
The country where the nationals have something in their DNA, which means that they're incredibly resilient and tough deep down.
00:07:35
Speaker
Otherwise, how could that be the fact that they've never been colonized? How can they be the base for the African Union?
00:07:43
Speaker
so and and And contending with all of that, however that expressed itself through the decade, And coming out of it as the first institutional quality investment in the country for for the private sector, ah when the country is taking off, um when the gold price has taken off, and to be appointed personally the consul representing the country for another country, representing Ethiopia to another country,
00:08:15
Speaker
tells you that that hardship that we went through sort of earned us a relationship and it doesn't come overnight. So the low point is the hardship, the the high point is that it actually positioned us as people that can be trusted and relied on to do it properly and with discipline.
00:08:37
Speaker
that That will stay with me forever. The rest of it is execution, money, you know, all the things that one does to run a business. But those are the two summary points I'd take from the last decade. You know, I've been a very bad husband. I've been a very bad father.
00:08:54
Speaker
ah very bit very well and fire and so I can tell you many things I'm not good at. but um But I think that would summarise what I'd take from the last decade.
Ethiopia's Gold Rush and Deregulation
00:09:03
Speaker
And tell us a little bit, what's what's the operating environment like now in Ethiopia?
00:09:08
Speaker
Well, it's abuzz. ah The country's going, whoosh, big IMF, World Bank development push. um The political leadership has discovered the world of private sector development. It was all public sector development until some years ago.
00:09:31
Speaker
And the fact that you can see now deregulation of the capital markets, floating of the currency, all sorts of things that are happening. It's like the tiger economies of Asia in 1990.
00:09:45
Speaker
They took off. That's what's happening. There's a gold rush. I'm told 14,000 excavators have been bought in Ethiopia with people rushing off into the into the you know backdrop back blocks to dig for gold. yeah It's like a gold rush. It is a gold rush.
00:10:01
Speaker
um But um all I can say is that um the the sort of the the initiation of the previous decade has prepared us with our eyes wide open, with systems, with controls, with relationships, which means that um there's no naivety left in in the beast.
00:10:23
Speaker
yeah you know it's It's all eyes wide open, well-disciplined, strong. And... and um I've fallen in love with the country despite all those hardships. A bit like a marriage, really, isn't it?
00:10:36
Speaker
You know, yeah you you fall in love, it drives you crazy, but you're still in love, you know? But... Well, it turns your wife doesn't see this where I've seen it in fire.
00:10:49
Speaker
hey she does drive me frozen but ah she understands yeah she understands like a naval wife so um yeah i i think very exciting in the country but it's it's not for precious petals or or uh you know fragile fragile people it's probably pretty strong to deal with the only country that's never been colonized you get pushed around yeah you gotta stand up and push back yeah Probably. Yeah.
Kefi's Expansion Plans
00:11:15
Speaker
So next steps um in full project launch later this year? Yeah. Yeah. And production late 27, early 28, is that? Yeah, it is.
00:11:26
Speaker
What we're looking at. And then I'm going to allow you a bit of largesse here. In five years time, what would you like Kefi to look like? What would I like her to look like? Yeah.
00:11:37
Speaker
Well, launching Tulikapi is a stepping stone. It's a critical stepping stone because it unlocks billions of dollars of cash flow. So that's clearly number one priority.
00:11:51
Speaker
But you don't go into a ah frontier market and invest all that time to help deregulate and unlock it without bigger things in mind.
00:12:06
Speaker
Tulikapi was chosen because it was nowhere near a border, meant all those issues that one confronts in fluid borders around Africa. It had no social or environmental legacy issues.
00:12:20
Speaker
So from the ESG viewpoint, it ranks highly. And from a pure economic viewpoint, the fact that it's high grade, free milling ore, ranks highly.
00:12:32
Speaker
So it's a stepping stone in a vision. In Australia, that same rock suite that you have where we are in Ethiopia has taken Australia from a backwater in gold and many other minerals to number two or three or four in the world in many minerals, including gold.
00:12:58
Speaker
um And I believe that that could happen in Ethiopia. And I believe the prospectivity is there. And I believe it won't take 50 years like it did in Australia. You can halve the tide just by learning the lessons that we learned.
00:13:13
Speaker
um So i see I see a huge country of prospectivity, the greenest, cheapest energy in the world now, the largest hydro scheme in Africa. So you've got green energy, cheap energy, the prospectivity that's made Australia great mis is there and not yet tackled.
00:13:34
Speaker
So i see I see a huge opportunity way beyond Tula Kappi. um You know, could be five Tula Kappis, whatever. But time will tell. they'll get it You have to dive into the swimming pool and swim around and deal with it.
00:13:48
Speaker
um it does isn't done from um from sitting in london or australia or anywhere else you've got to get in there and uh being you know starting off with a position that we have in tulukapi i think it opens up the possibilities for us so i see see a much larger organization with several several minds running and a big pipeline of opportunities What about Saudi? There was a suggestion earlier in the year, I think, that you might be looking to divest yourselves of your Saudi assets or your Saudi joint venture, including the assets. Is that still a thought? or ah Well, you know, the the fact that it was so expensive to keep up means we couldn't keep up.
00:14:29
Speaker
And, um you know, if the share price had been a different share price, we could have kept up, but we couldn't. And that's not... saying anything other than the facts of the matter.
00:14:41
Speaker
ah Now at at a 15% shareholding, you know, really, um is it worth selling it for the price that one would get for that position in the company versus the fact that it's going to start up its its gold mine shortly, it'll it'll you'll see it come through, and then it'll set stay start up the second one, not long thereafter, you'll see it come through, versus the fact that um A very large copper gold mine will come up within a couple of years. It's coming through already. You've seen it in our releases.
00:15:16
Speaker
So you've got this huge pipeline coming through, a very good relationship with our partner. who And we can change the mix between different projects as we go forward. You take more of this one, you take less of that one, that sort of stuff. It's a very healthy, whatever makes sense commercially. Yeah.
00:15:33
Speaker
I think that... You know, we' we'll no longer be in a position where it's painful to keep up. We'll no longer be in a position where we can't afford to be in two areas.
00:15:44
Speaker
And in fact, I think the opposite. I think it will be relatively easy to keep up. It'll be important to have two legs to the stool rather than just one. And there'll be opportunities to increase our beneficial interest in one project or another as we work it out with our partners going forward.
00:16:01
Speaker
So I'm no longer bugged by it. you know if if the If the sector had stayed suppressed, it would have been a headache. But it's it's not a headache now.
00:16:11
Speaker
And I think we should just play it out properly. The fact that we put the spotlight on it worked. Frankly, it flushed out all sorts of third parties with all sorts of ideas.
00:16:22
Speaker
it It put the pressure on the system to you know lay out all our choices internally, put pressure on internally as well. and we we we overhauled management, we we brought the projects up but up a few notches.
00:16:37
Speaker
um So it was a healthy pressure to apply to our to our situation and we're we're better off for it. But the most important thing is that there is no pressure on having to make a decision now and we should just optimize it with our partner.
00:16:50
Speaker
And that' i don't know if that answers your question. but Very thoroughly, I think. okay One more thing I wanted to ask you about, and you you touched on this in your last announcements, but there are also a couple of lithium licenses out there in Ethiopia that you're taking an interest in The world has changed.
00:17:08
Speaker
You know, it's just, you know, I've spent, it's probably probably both of us, you know, um we spent most of our working lives in an industry which is incredibly poorly understood.
Global Resource Security and Opportunities
00:17:25
Speaker
and looked down upon historically more than looked up to, despite the fact that everything you can see or touch is on the ground or mind, more or less, that we've done.
00:17:39
Speaker
And so the political rhetoric today of leadership globally, country leadership globally, is actually the rhetoric that's always been inside our heads, but it hasn't been popular before.
00:17:54
Speaker
you know, the role of gold in the world and the and the critical importance of resource security. It's been in our heads, industry heads, but not in political leadership heads or in or in general populist heads.
00:18:12
Speaker
So what's happened today is that not only has gold reclaimed its traditional role of the last 5,000 years and adjusting itself accordingly, but all of a sudden I think the West has woken up to the fact that China has played them as a fool for decades, I think, and put its foot on resources.
00:18:35
Speaker
But there's a scramble to somehow rectify now. And a lot of those resources are in in that that terrain of rocks in Ethiopia and in Saudi Arabia.
00:18:49
Speaker
and done And so it's a huge opportunity. that may It may be that You know, we have to be very careful not to distract. on our main game to put the the main game on the road.
00:19:02
Speaker
Maybe that we have to spin-off. I don't know, that sort of side of things, but we have to do whatever. sensible to do two things. Deliver on the main game of getting Tula Cup into production and unlocking billions of dollars of cash flow.
00:19:17
Speaker
And ah have a good think about with with our friends in in in the marketplace and in the countries about What do we do about the rare earths and the critical materials ah in these countries that haven't been properly assessed and tackled yet in a world where all of a sudden everyone's talking about it?
00:19:38
Speaker
So I think it's a wonderful opportunity. It's a bit left field at the moment. But um I think, you know, once once the show's on the road at Tulikapi, we could set up a separate team of people to have a good think about that.
00:19:53
Speaker
Excellent. Harry, food for thought. Thank you very much indeed. okay Ladies and gentlemen, that was ha Harry Anagnostaris-Adams, the chairman of Kefi Gold and Copper. Keep an eye on it. Have a look at it. As I say, shares you could buy for under a heaping earlier this year, now trading at about 1.28, up three times. And I'll tell you, when gold was down $250-odd or roughly 5% the other day, one of the only gold counters in the entire world that was higher,
00:20:21
Speaker
was Cathy. It's definitely worth a look. We'll be bringing you more such investments in the very near future here on Edison TV. But until then, you have a very capital day.