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Ep 54: Making a Creative Life with Julia Mallory
391 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, guest Julia Mallory returns to talk about how she's turned her life into art. We discuss believing in yourself, circumventing gatekeepers, and putting your work in the world on your own terms. Julia talks about how her creativity expands to other formats like reiki, and we discuss the necessity of creativity in surviving today's world.
Julia Mallory is committed to being a good steward of, and vessel for her ancestors' stories. As a storyteller, her foundational creative love language is poetry. She is the founder of the creative container, Black Mermaids, and a poetry editor for The Loveliest Review. Julia is also a visual artist and emerging filmmaker whose work has screened from Toronto to Iceland. Her latest loves include creating stop-motion animated collages and building TEN OH! SIX, a multi-generational community space for collective learning, connection, and creativity. Julia is the mother of three children and is from the Southside of Harrisburg, which she affectionately refers to as “the lil chocolate city that tries.” For more information, visit www.thejuliamallory.com.
RESOURCES
- Survivor's Guilt by Julia Mallory
- Breathe by Julia Mallory
- "Belle's Boy" by Julia Mallory
- "You are the Second Person" by Kiese Laymon
- The Salt Eaters by Toni Cade Bambara
Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr
BOOKSHOP
https://bookshop.org/shop/hoodooplantmamas
Apocalypse Still by Leah Nicole Whitcomb
About the Boy by Leah Nicole Whitcomb
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This podcast was created, hosted, and produced by Dani & Leah.
Our music was created by Ghrey, and our artwork was designed by Bianca.
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Transcript
Introduction to Hoodoo Plants and Cultural Heritage
00:00:01
Speaker
Hoodoo Plants, Mamas. Get your soul fed and your spirit ridden. This here ain't no trend.
00:00:12
Speaker
I possessed the power from way back when.
00:00:20
Speaker
Ancestors, they gather my urge. I conjure it, my ulcer. Hoodoo Plants, Mamas.
00:00:33
Speaker
We just out here trying to water our plants and mind our business, you know? Everybody from the deep south, man, everybody can have culture like us.
Meet the Hosts and Guest: Leah, Dani, and Julia
00:00:45
Speaker
Hey y'all and welcome back to another episode of Who Do You Plant Mamas? I am your co-host Leah Nicole. And I'm Dani B. And today we are joined by the wonderful Julia Mallory.
00:00:56
Speaker
Would you like to introduce yourself? Introductions are so hard for me. I consider myself a storyteller whose foundation of creative love language is poetry. And I'm just a creative person that's out here trying to do the most and do work that feels important and timely.
00:01:14
Speaker
So I'm excited to be back with y'all. I love talking to y'all. are one of my favorite podcasts. We're excited to have you back and to chat
Dani's Mead Wine Experience at the Farmer's Market
00:01:21
Speaker
today. So Dani B, how are you doing this morning?
00:01:24
Speaker
I'm doing okay. So I went to the farmer's market yesterday and I got some mead wine. i had never heard of that. don't know y'all have heard of It's basically wine made with fermented honey and and fruit.
00:01:38
Speaker
And apparently since honey is a more concentrated type of sugar, it ends up being stronger. ah stronger kind of wine which I did not know and I should have known when I took a sample and I was walking away to go you know look at the rest of the market I was like wait a minute felt a little woozy for a second like I only had two small samples so anyway I drank that last night it was a pretty small bottle so I'm a little i don't know if it's hangout hungover But it's like that fogginess you feel after... And I don't drink a lot, but I was like, I want i want to drink this wine and relax tonight. So, yeah.
00:02:17
Speaker
That's I'm feeling foggy. That was a long-winded... But I'm feeling foggy. I'm feeling foggy today.
Gratitude and Creative Thankfulness
00:02:24
Speaker
I'm going to say kind of similar. i also, last night, was like, I need to relax. And so ah someone gave us some recreational... ah
00:02:38
Speaker
some Some recreational products, and I was engaging in those last night. Julia, how are you doing? I feel really good. We gathered yesterday to watch a film to kick off the study circle that I'm trying to put together. And so it's always good to gather with Black folks and share our strong opinions and laugh and eat.
00:03:00
Speaker
um So I feel really grateful today and just being able to go at a slow pace today. Well, let's get into some gratitude. um Let's start with Julia. What are you thankful for today?
00:03:13
Speaker
a slower pace. That's what I'm grateful for, to be honest. Just moving at my own pace, which is um Sunday slow. What about you, Leah? I would say, and I think this is on theme for today, i am grateful for creativity and I'm grateful for the project that I'm working on. I'm working on book three of my series,
00:03:35
Speaker
And I'm 20,000 words in. And I'm having a lot of fun. So I'm just trying to remember that. Like, this is supposed to be fun. Don't stress out. Do my best. So what are you grateful for, Dani?
00:03:46
Speaker
I'm grateful for community. And I know it's an overused word. But I've just been thinking a lot about that for myself. And just how I've been lucky in that respect of being connected with people who have held all parts of me.
00:04:04
Speaker
as I've grown and sort of supporting that growth. And I guess I'm beginning to see sort of a like transformation that I've been going through and just how it just wouldn't have been possible without the people near and far that I've connected with, whether they have like actually so spoken to me or have just been an example for me about what life can look like.
00:04:31
Speaker
when do you stop holding yourself back in particular ways. so I'm really thankful for that today.
Is Life a Continuous Creative Work of Art?
00:04:37
Speaker
So today we really want to talk about creativity. This was inspired because a while back, I actually reached out to you, Julia, ah for advice on experimenting with different creative genres because I was having what I thought to be a creative block with my writing.
00:04:57
Speaker
And one of the things you said was a creative's life will go through many seasons and that sometimes it's a matter of is this a season asking you to engage with your life as a work of art and finding more experiences for connection and expression that don't just seek to be a finite thing that can be on a page and be published and these are your words verbatim this idea of making our lives a living work of art really struck me. And it's something that I realized I was not and am still struggling to do, like engaging with my life as a a creative thing, as art.
00:05:43
Speaker
And I think about it often. i've I've actually thought about it probably multiple times a week since that conversation. And I'm interested to know from your perspective, what does or can that look like?
00:05:58
Speaker
And what has it looked like for you?
Balancing Creativity with Life Experiences
00:06:00
Speaker
So this is going to be the example of like when your words come back to haunt you, because I think I probably could speak so freely about it because it's also advice that I also need.
00:06:13
Speaker
It's so interesting. I literally just had a conversation yesterday for another podcast and they were asking me, how do I balance out being a creative person while also making space for connection and for other people, like displaying and curating other people's work?
00:06:29
Speaker
And I was like, wow, I feel like there's a difference between making art and making a life. I'm going to repeat those words here. you Like, I think there is something... about our work is, yes, to do these things and put them out into the world, but balancing out that need of curiosity and connection um is's something that I'm always working through because I'm always curious. I always want to know the world around me. I want to read things.
00:07:01
Speaker
And then it's just this habit of, but at the same time, and it's been a struggle to be quite honest about you know, making life look like a work of art um since the pandemic, because the pandemic was an incredibly difficult time, but it was also an incredibly generative time for me.
00:07:18
Speaker
um Just the isolation and and and a slower pace and stillness generated a lot for me. But at the same time, now I find that it is I'm struggling to connect and be outside in the way that used to feel very comfortable to me.
00:07:35
Speaker
And so I sometimes see myself as like, oh, I'm in a movie. I'm in a short film. And then like from the time I wake up and maybe I brush my teeth, I'm like, oh, there's a soundtrack playing in my head.
00:07:46
Speaker
And I also work remote. I'm always at the house. So I think I've just been trying to figure out how can I stay open to like enchantment?
00:08:01
Speaker
you know, like allowing things like surprises, maybe taking an alternate route or pushing myself a little bit more to have maybe conversations or moments of connection that I would have just been like, I'm too busy to do this.
00:08:14
Speaker
So those are just some things that I've been been trying to work through, but I know it's not easy. It is not an easy thing when we feel like we have such limited time and everything is swallowed up by having to produce something or needing to make money I'm just leaving space. I don't know.
00:08:32
Speaker
Like whatever that looks like is is how I think I'm trying to reclaim some of that.
Belief in Self vs. External Validation in Creativity
00:08:35
Speaker
I'm curious about you too, Leah, as somebody who I sort of see both you and Julia in the same way in that y'all have both sort of y'all, I mean, everybody here is a writer, but the way y'all have took taken initiative and created your work by your means, like without compromise.
00:09:02
Speaker
And I know that Julia has also been a source of inspiration for you as you go through that process. But like, do you think about your life as a work of art? Or is it something is that something you've considered? Or Like, how do you practice creativity and just like your living, your everyday living?
00:09:19
Speaker
I do consider my life a work of art. And I think a lot of times for me, especially with the things I produce, like Julia said, I think it can be hard when you're thinking about money and when you're thinking about things.
00:09:32
Speaker
the algorithm and constantly produce, produce, produce. But I think for me, my struggle a lot of times comes from the fact that I don't like producing without a purpose. And so I don't like the idea of just posting content to post the content. Like I want everything that I create to mean something and I want it to help somebody. I want it to do some other function besides just existing.
00:09:56
Speaker
And maybe I want too much. Like I think, you know, some things are fine existing on their own. But I think for me personally, if I'm going to put all of this work and energy into something and offering it to someone else, I do want it to be my best. And I want it to be something worthwhile.
00:10:13
Speaker
Like I don't want to waste your time and I don't want to waste my time. That makes sense. um Another thing we discussed during that same conversation was about like everything.
00:10:24
Speaker
how sometimes a story or idea is supposed to be in a container beyond the one we're trying to put it in or force it When or if you run into this issue, what has been your process of figuring out? Because you you work with many genres.
00:10:41
Speaker
And so when the way you described it during the conversation, like when a story chooses you, How do you work through sort of figuring out what container it's supposed to be in? It's probably more so orchestrated by the story's refusal to fit where I'm putting it.
00:10:57
Speaker
That lets me know. It's rarely, I don't think, i don't think I'm usually coming to the table with, like, oh yes, this story wants to be a play. um And then as I'm working through it, I just intuitively know like, oh no, it's not working. There's usually something more um orchestrated by the work that tells me, no, this does not fit.
00:11:21
Speaker
um It's less of a, like, I'm just so wise that I just work in all these genres and I know. It usually doesn't work like that. It's usually... just the story either is, um like I have a two key examples that I can use.
00:11:35
Speaker
So when I first started working with the book that will become later Survivor's Guilt, when I'm talking about, you know, the whole point of writing Survivor's Guilt was to crystallize my experience after losing my oldest son, Julian, in 2017. And and To be honest, y'all, the first book that I was trying to write was a book about maybe how like animals and insects grieve.
00:11:57
Speaker
um And then I was going to try to somehow tie that back to the human grief experience. But that is the book that was absolutely not interested in me writing it. It was like I would like have these many starts and stops. But I think now in hindsight, I realized i was feeling like I was opening and somebody who did not really talk and process their emotions in a very public way.
00:12:19
Speaker
I thought I was being very expansive, but I think I was trying to put too much distance between me, myself and my own personal experience with grief. So that's why i wanted to put it into like another species and that just wasn't working.
00:12:33
Speaker
So the work itself, I think, was just resisting It it was just like, we're no, thank you. um this is This is not your story to tell or frame it this way.
00:12:44
Speaker
Then when I was writing, and this is something that's a little bit more generative, but I was writing, and Leah, you and I are both ah public, and I think, Dani, you might've been an editor for that story, for Sis Stories, Bell's Boy.
00:12:58
Speaker
When I was writing Bell's Boy, ah which is a story that is like rooted in like family folklore for me. I'm writing this story. And at some point I hear like this voice as it's, cause it's, you know, I'm using like ancestor names and and and this storyline that happened in my family.
00:13:17
Speaker
And at some point i basically get word. It's like, we're going to give you this story, but we want to speak for ourselves. And it was like, this is, this should also be a play.
00:13:29
Speaker
Like they wanted the opportunity to kind of talk more and have their dialogue in their story and their own words be more centered. So that is kind of how it's come to me usually when it should be something else.
00:13:43
Speaker
Now, there's like two processes to that. That's like already having an idea. and then there's how have I expanded into different creative lanes? And I always reference Toni K. Bambara, who ah in one essay says, you know, that she was back to the paints again because she needed a new creative language to express herself in.
00:14:03
Speaker
And so I think there's kind of like the big, like you're already like working on the work. And then there's the other side of that, which is there are things that you want to bring through, but you're feeling like what you're already working in just can't hold it. And so you got to use a different container <unk> it's it's a work through.
00:14:22
Speaker
So I find I've been obviously on both sides of those um experiences. and So I remember last year when my debut ah short story collection came out, Apocalypse Steel.
00:14:33
Speaker
And I cited you as one of my inspirations on our Patreon because I had seen your career and how you just put yourself out there. Whatever you want to do, you do it um You don't wait for other people's approval. And so I was like, I'm going to do this with this short story collection because I feel very confident about it And so I'll never forget when you told me that sometimes you just need one person to believe in you and that one person can be yourself.
00:14:59
Speaker
And that's been really helpful for me, especially because sometimes i don't be wanting to the believe in myself. But yeah, I can be the one person. I can be the validation that I need. And so I'm wondering if you would say that that has been your mantra for your creative life.
00:15:15
Speaker
And how has believing yourself impacted your creativity? And Leah, I just have to say, it has been incredible to watch you like generating your works and putting them out in the world. I think it is so dope. And I'm always going to cheer for folks who put themselves on.
00:15:32
Speaker
like That's just a huge part of my belief system. And so the belief in self is so fascinating. And I know that we all have different narratives and stories that are in our heads about ourselves. And when, and when does that enter?
00:15:46
Speaker
Because you could be raised very self-assured and then you get out into the world and then the world makes you doubt yourself. um You could be raised the opposite, you know, where folks didn't really believe in you, but then the world got here made you feel like you belong. So I think we all have to find, like navigate that.
00:16:02
Speaker
But I think from such a young age, you know, I think my family, just supported my ideas of self-grandeor and just have been very encouraging. And even when they don't understand, i will have to say, because I don't think my family now understands most of what I'm doing or what I'm into.
00:16:21
Speaker
I'm doing a whole lot too. So just expecting people to always be able to be like, you know, me and my significant other laugh about this all the time because I'm like, okay, babe, I have this coming up. And he's like, well, oh, I kind of remember that. and i was like, listen, I really do not expect you to, there's just no way. Like, unless I have like share my calendar with you, there's just no way to keep track of everything.
00:16:42
Speaker
But I think the belief in self is, i just feel like the things that come to you for, like they came to us for a reason. They came to us for a reason. And I'm not saying that the work just because it comes to us is perfect out the gate.
00:16:55
Speaker
But I think not being willing to try it out, I think that's a disservice to the energy that brought it through you. And I got to be honest, a lot of the early work that I generated, I felt very connected to like it being like a divine download. And so I think that also gave me a certain self-assuredness that, oh, I'm not, I'm not finna debate with people about its validity when my people gave this to me.
00:17:19
Speaker
Like, you can't even earthly understand some of this. Like, I'm not even, it just seems wild to me. And I think the more that I grow as a creative, one of the things when I was young, I always loved to read magazines and profiles about people.
00:17:32
Speaker
And how they got to where they were getting to. And I'm not going to lie. Sometimes I'll be looking and i'll be like, oh, okay. I see why things happen for them because they had, they had access to X, Y, and Z. So me comparing it, you know, as a hood born poor girl, I'm just like, is it going to shake for me the same way? Because I don't maybe have access to those resources.
00:17:51
Speaker
And so I'm saying that to say that I think in the modern world, like looking at things and how people get to where they're going, it doesn't matter at the of the we can compare ourselves to a thousand people, we all want to have our own unique journey, right?
00:18:06
Speaker
And so the reason why I brought up the profiles is because the more that I read about people's work and I see how people are creatively connected across different spaces, I think there's a real practical thing about people just being honest about their preferences and their taste and what they like and why they like it.
Subjectivity in Art and the Value of Creative Community
00:18:24
Speaker
And I just want Black creative folk to not be so worn out about the idea when they're not people's pick.
00:18:34
Speaker
Because people always making in choices about what they like for a variety of arbitrary reasons. And so if you are only going to ah let your creativity shine the moment when just somebody finds an arbitrary reason to like your work, I mean, that seems to be a very limited creative life, quite frankly.
00:18:59
Speaker
Folks like what they like. And I think that's why also creative community is important, right? Because we need people that are connected to us to even understand why we do our work. I know there's this big push to be honest with people about their work because if we don't critique each other, it will never get better.
00:19:17
Speaker
Okay, I hear that. But some of us, like, I think there's also reasons why people create the way that they do it sometimes. And sometimes it's just, it's not for us. And I think that sometimes as as artists and creatives, we might get caught up in that about why people may not resonate with it.
00:19:35
Speaker
But our work can also build an audience. Like, our work can also connect us across... space and time with other folks. So sometimes even that's why community, creative community is important because maybe people need to hear it in your voice.
00:19:49
Speaker
You know, it's only about so many things in life, y'all. We know this. But maybe somebody needs to hear it in your voice. There's a particular word that may unlock a memory. Maybe I never heard nobody use that sentence or that phrase.
00:20:00
Speaker
My auntie used to say it like this. And when I read your work, it just reminded me of her. Different things, you know, that's why I think it's so important for us to just be clear about why we're doing the work that we're doing.
00:20:13
Speaker
And it is scary to put your work out in the world and to take your hands up off of it. Like, I don't disagree with that. I'm not trying to minimize that. Because there's definitely times, I mean, I still have self-doubt.
00:20:23
Speaker
I still can get scared. My voice will still shake. I still have self-doubt. You know, I'll put something out and I'll read it. And I'll like, damn, I should have changed that. And it's like, I mean, but girl, what? What's done is what's done. People are going to take it as a whole.
00:20:36
Speaker
you know mean? Hopefully somebody's not going to hyper fixate on the thing. And if they did, I mean, that's fine. Because there was a point where I loved it enough to release it. out into the world. Baby, even if you don't believe in yourself, child, believe in the work.
00:20:48
Speaker
Like you're gonna pick one or other. Like if you don't believe in the work, believe in yourself. Okay, enough to put the work out in the world. If you don't believe in the work and believe in yourself that like, oh, I trust myself. So this must be good because it's an extension of me.
00:21:01
Speaker
Whatever you do, what's that song say? i don't care how you get here. Just make sure you get here or something like that. Like I'm butchering the lyric, but that's how I feel about our creative work, our creative labor.
00:21:12
Speaker
I don't care how you get there. You know what I don't care how the work gets done, child. Like, but make sure, like, make sure that the work gets there. Make sure the work is out in the world, outside of yourself. Because I always talk about, too, to me, some of the worst repressed energy is repressed creative energy. Because we think that's benign.
00:21:35
Speaker
You know what I think we recognize like certain other type of repression in ourselves, but repressed creative energy. We just think it's like, oh, it's just a thing that I didn't get to do. But after doing that child for so long, the 120 Morrison line, she's like, oh, just like any person, like any, which was like any person without art art. think an artist without tools.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah. Just like, like any artist would without the tools or something, she became dangerous. And listen, when we say, say dangerous, I don't think that's what we mean. That's not what we mean. The point you made about sort of waiting to be chosen to like really lean into your work, it kind of reminds me of this conversation around Dolce, who I wasn't like, I want to preface this with, I wasn't, I wasn't no super follower of Dolce. I was aware of Dolce though, before she began to have her moment, like a lot of people do, where they're underground for a while and then suddenly the mainstream wants to like,
00:22:35
Speaker
elevate them for whatever reason. And I was thinking about that because so many Black artists, especially Black women, Black queer artists, they really have to know that they are that girl regardless. And a lot of them do.
00:22:51
Speaker
Like, it did take being mainstream. Like, I think about Dochi. I think about the City Girls before they kind of had their moment. Megan Thee Stallion.
00:23:03
Speaker
I feel like that's important. That's an important thing to think about, like really knowing that you are who you are before somebody tells you. And I feel like a lot of people really underestimate that. And and also when they don't see that, like with Do Chi saying she's an industry plant, which a whole which is a whole nother thing, because they believe that that's what it takes to believe in yourself. Like they can't imagine that.
00:23:29
Speaker
Like this person already knew who she was. Like she knew what she's doing is important. what she doing What she's doing is impactful and that her art is impactful before somebody at the top decided, let's give that one some airtime.
00:23:45
Speaker
So, yeah, i've I've been thinking a lot about that and just like the so much work people have to put in that other people don't see. and assume whatever they want to assume, not knowing that you have been working like you were this person beforehand, if that makes sense.
00:24:03
Speaker
Oh, it makes a lot of sense. And that's what I also try to tell people too, just from my personal experience, being aspirational and trying to put myself in the right rooms without any work to demonstrate the commitment to my creativity It didn't do anything. So I think that's why I'm always encouraging people.
00:24:25
Speaker
Like what we say, if you stay ready, you ain't got to get ready. And so folks want to do things and we want the accolades and we want the attention and people want to be writers, baby. But are you writing?
00:24:35
Speaker
Like, are you writing? are you just making your art? Like, are you already committing the belief in self or the commitment to the work? It got to be one or the other, or like, hopefully it's both.
00:24:46
Speaker
So I think this idea of, and I got it from a very practical standpoint, y'all know I'm really really rooted in my local community too.
The Significance of Independent and Self-Publishing
00:24:54
Speaker
And I got to be honest, there are things that I wanted to do. And when you reach out to people and if they didn't see no evidence of it, like people really do, people really do spin you.
00:25:05
Speaker
They'll play nice in your face and then they just kind of never connect back with you. It's a lot of people that I used to reach out to wanting to work with, et cetera, that never really gave me the time of day.
00:25:17
Speaker
that now i don't I don't really do a lot of reaching no more. People who are constantly contacting me for connection because the work is out in the world working. And so that's why I always encourage people to, especially people want a lot of visibility with their careers. It's like, baby, if you ain't got no work, like if you were not doing the thing, and I always will tell people to, I am definitely a student of the Black arts movement. And I take a lot of cues from Southern um and ah rappers who a lot of times were not getting distribution deals, who ran the numbers and said it was not good. And they were selling work out their trunk, out the mom and pop stores. Like that was their distribution. So I always, like Black arts movement, like the industry as a whole was not trying to publish Black folks' work, right? So then we have Third World Press. We have broadside press, like people who are...
00:26:09
Speaker
setting up ways to put out Black work into the world and they are taking the means of production and doing what they can with what they have and and building the careers of the poets and the writers' names who we still call today.
00:26:23
Speaker
And so instead of waiting for 50 years for publishing to finally catch up, No, they said, what can we do with what we have? So even like okay, I'm gonna put some work out in the world. It may not be perfect.
00:26:36
Speaker
And I will also say, I know there's there's more than one way to have a writing career. So respect to folks who get get it how they get it. But I also know, like, people really do try to come down for folks who self-published and who are independently put and work out in the world, which is interesting to me because it's like, y'all don't like everything that's traditionally published.
00:26:54
Speaker
Why are catching more flat? Like, y'all don't like all the books that just because they came through one of the top five. Like... No. So I'm going to push against that every single time. And I think people are also expecting if you don't have a deal or if you don't have these things, they're not even really expecting humility. they're They're requiring a certain type of modesty.
00:27:16
Speaker
And I'm like... I just met you. You been waiting 10 years to get a ah deal. I've put out six books. You can't talk to me like what I've been working.
00:27:26
Speaker
know I'm saying? Like I've been in my hood. I've been people got my books on their shelves. You just can't talk to me like I'm nobody. And I hate that we also even do that to each other.
00:27:38
Speaker
So it makes sense to me to look like when you brought the music and bring Dolce and it just made me like, oh yeah, because these people already had motion. you know what I'm saying? She already had motion. So when they see you got the followers, they see you already have.
00:27:52
Speaker
the clout with an audience, then you become more valuable to them. But then sometimes like some, ah you know, some folks feel like, well, damn, I'm already been doing a work. Like, what do I really need y y'all for? Right now? Don't get me wrong. If it come with some, you know, certain type of access and maybe money, I can understand why it's attractive.
00:28:09
Speaker
But that's why I'm always like, i don't, there's so many avenues to put your work out into the world. It's only so many times that I want to hear that it didn't get picked up. That can't just be your story. You know mean? You wrote that thing 10 years ago and it ain't find a home yet. And so then what? It just died?
00:28:28
Speaker
It just died? Like, that's wild. Like, absolutely not. There's too, too many opportunities and options. for us to put our work into the world, whether that's, you know, small literary journals, um whether that's, I mean, I'm not even going to list them all because everybody knows that like, hell on a blog, you can make a text-based essay and post them pictures on Instagram, you know, but I think we also have to interrogate who we trying to be seen by and why does it matter if they see us, right?
Does Creative Work Need Mainstream Validation?
00:29:08
Speaker
And so once I realized like, oh, no, I just want my work out in the world because it seems important. And I feel like I have something to say. i think that was enough for me. That was enough for me. And even there's times you're just like, oh, should I try to do something?
00:29:22
Speaker
I'm just like, girl, there's a lot of ways to get here. So my words come back to haunt me, too. It's like I have to remind myself, like sometimes you have to remind yourself, girl, who are you and who are you not? For sure. There's so much that I want to respond to. Oh my God. But um i definitely agree with you. I feel like a lot of people look down on self-publishing because they kind of feel like we're cheating.
00:29:44
Speaker
Like, oh, you're supposed to submit yourself to this system. You're supposed to wait to get chosen. You're supposed to do all these things. And like you, I knew this woman who had 14 books before she had a book that was finally picked. And I was like, I refuse to believe all 14 of those books are trash. Um,
00:30:00
Speaker
Like, I think that a lot of it was just like, oh, publishing doesn't want these things for whatever reason. They were probably racist because she was a black woman, honestly. so I'm like, I refuse to believe that like what you're producing is bad and does not have a purpose just because the traditional publishing industry does not have a space for it.
00:30:22
Speaker
And in addition to that, I think a lot of people who are not producing, like you say, who see other people out in the world who are doing their work, And they're like, oh, I want these accolades, but i don't do want to do the work. I think one, I think it's perfectionism that's holding them back. But more specifically, i think it's this fear that they're going to produce something that's flawed.
00:30:45
Speaker
And we have been told that things that are flawed should not exist, that we have been told things that are flawed are not worthy of love. Right. And so I think a lot of people are really afraid of producing flawed work.
00:30:58
Speaker
and people criticizing for them because people are also very hypercritical and the amount of times i see readers who are like I hate every book I read and I'm like I don't think every book you read is bad like I maybe they have some problems you know but I don't think everything you read is bad I don't think every book out there is terrible I think there's a lot of good and I think there's some things that you may not enjoy. But like, I just really don't like this conversation of like, especially with Black people, this idea that only our best should be front and center. And I'm not saying Black mediocrity, but I am saying like, sometimes where you are at is enough. You don't have to be perfect.
00:31:39
Speaker
You don't have to be excellent. You don't have to be the best. So something around the perfectionism, and you know I've heard this discussion a lot about traditional publishing too, because the idea is that, oh, well you went through a process, so therefore it made the work better, which is so interesting because I, again, listened to writers over the span of their career, and I hear how writers will say, i had to make all these concessions.
00:32:06
Speaker
artists, whoever, people talking about how they have to make all these concessions so that they can get to finally do the thing that they feel like they've been compelled to do. The industry now finally respects them enough to let them talk in their own voice.
00:32:22
Speaker
And that's intriguing to me. The struggle that I have too is also how do we maintain our creativity under capitalism? that creates arbitrary scarcity. Because people always like, oh, there's enough out here for everybody.
00:32:37
Speaker
and I'm like, in what way? Capitalism creates a system where we don't have access to the enough for everybody. And then also if creativity is not commodified,
00:32:50
Speaker
then it also probably becomes a thing where you don't have super winners. We have like extremes under capitalism too. So people that are getting really, really lush opportunities and then people who are not, right? Even though both of them could be equally as talented.
00:33:08
Speaker
But if we only look at what capitalism is rewarding, we also, again, we start the we start to let that shape what we think is actually good. The conversation around mediocrity and critique and excellence.
00:33:22
Speaker
Oh, it's so nuanced. It's so nuanced because I think, can a work ever be perfect? When I think of perfectionism, just think of sterile, to be quite honest. What I would call something perfect is just something that just hit me in all the right places.
00:33:36
Speaker
Like to me that, and that's not even like, oh, maybe there was some missing periods or something, whatever, but it's like, I was all up in the work and it was all up in me. And that is perfect. Like how we say, oh, you're so perfect, right?
00:33:48
Speaker
We don't mean that the person person is like without flaw. It's just like what you're offering is so full. So I think even the definition around it Oh, the mediocre part.
00:34:02
Speaker
Oh my goodness. I, y'all, I have to be honest. I'm watching this in real time. Cause you know, I'm also trying to be, I'm a like ah aspirational cultural writer in some respects. And then like, so I'm studying that lane across like the last 30, 40 years.
00:34:18
Speaker
And people have been saying the same thing, child, for decades. Yeah. We always say the same thing. You know, people been saying, oh, the work ain't good enough. Y'all need to do better work. And then people saying, oh, well, I have limitations.
00:34:31
Speaker
You know, like it's always, we've been saying the same thing for decades. And so that's why even I think, again, when I watch who people were critiquing and who their favorites are, and when I see the inconsistency of that manifest,
00:34:48
Speaker
and the discussions that they put out in the world, I'm like, yeah, I really don't trust what y'all say. i just gotta be honest. And that's why I'm like, but really as a artist, none of that shit ain't my business.
00:35:04
Speaker
Like, and I think some of us get too caught up in it too. Sometimes we too invested in everything that's happening outside of our work because I think we're also looking for permission in other ways.
00:35:14
Speaker
Like make the work the main thing. Somebody gonna love it. Somebody gonna hate it. Did you sincerely like it? You know, i was talking to my significant other about that this morning. About art and talent. And if you as an artist no longer feel the thing, it's not even about if it's good or not.
00:35:33
Speaker
Just did you feel it? Did you feel it? Like that has to mean something. Like I think that's... Are you bringing sincerity to what you're putting out in the world?
00:35:44
Speaker
Because then I also think if you had to defend then I think you can credibly do that because you can talk from a place of sincerity of what the limitations were. Danny, remember when I put out Bails Boy and I remember there was a part in the dialogue and you said, Julia, I just feel like this just gets too fast or something.
00:36:02
Speaker
Or like something's missing here. And I was like, you know what? People have read the story. i haven't gotten that feedback, but I also don't disagree with you. But I also don't think I know how to fix it.
00:36:13
Speaker
So it's like, oh, but because I sincerely believed in the work, I can also sincerely be like, but something ain't registering for me of how to remedy a thing that doesn't quite feel like a problem, but I could understand you as a reader, how you might register it.
00:36:30
Speaker
Right. And I think that's because I'm sincerely invested in that story. So I think if we are sincerely doing our work too, like sometimes it's going to have to be enough.
00:36:44
Speaker
It's going to have to be enough, y'all. Like also it's an industry, but like I'm doing work that just feels important. Like whether it fits inside of an industry or not. I don't know. i think that's a challenge too. I also still have a nine to five. So I am precious about my work in a certain type of way because I'm just like, oh, you know, I have other means to pay my bills too.
00:37:07
Speaker
So I think maybe people who are depending on that and come specifically from the art that they generate, they might have to make a set of different decisions too.
00:37:18
Speaker
So I think there's just a lot of layers here, but don't none of it, ain't none of it worth talking about if there ain't no work that's produced from a sincere place. I know we got to take a break, ah but I wanted to mention around the publishing and having to make concessions.
00:37:36
Speaker
Because an essay that I'm always going to recommend is You Are the Second Person by K.S.A. Layman. Because, you know, people see him as like this super big deal writer, which he is. But he got stuck in a nightmare with trying to be traditionally published.
00:37:57
Speaker
To the point of a person trying to make him change a character to a white person. I think to a white woman, if I'm not mistaken. take the Basically take the essence of the work, just completely obliterate Take out the Mississippi, take out the Blackness, the Southerness.
00:38:16
Speaker
That's the work. That's the work that he's doing. That and essay is always so devastating for me because I can't believe how long he was stuck where somebody literally shelved his book pretty much and started pushing other people.
00:38:31
Speaker
And he had to just take it. And thank God he didn't be in. He refused to bend on this work. And now, you know, he was able to like buy that book back.
00:38:44
Speaker
Like, you know what I mean? And it is a cost when you don't be into that. But I feel like in the long run, it's worth it. It's worth it not to compromise on your work. And there's something really, to me, noble. And this is something I've, it took me a long time to get to because I used to feel like being chosen was the way.
00:39:05
Speaker
best been that's been a struggle That's been the there major thing that has been blocking me creatively or that has. um But the fact that people are like, no, I'm publishing this book. I know that you, even with you, Leah, like you experienced a lot of rejection around books and that kind of thing. And the fact that you said, you know what?
00:39:31
Speaker
Enough. Enough. Y'all are putting out self-published books that are comparable to books that are receiving these $100,000 advances. But people really put value in that and assume that somehow the work is lower quality because some white man didn't put his signature on the fact that, like, we can give you this check for us to push this book.
00:39:58
Speaker
Like, I don't know. I ain't gonna go on a rant, but I'm just saying like it sometimes it upsets me to be reading like really great work that is not invested in. And also the fact that other people don't really understand that like having a machine ba behind you does not automatically mean that your shit is like high quality or that is good.
00:40:21
Speaker
And I know it's subjective art, whatever, but I'm saying you People assume that people who don't have the machine, that their work is not good, and that's just not the case, especially for Black people.
00:40:33
Speaker
Okay? Cousin Key is a huge inspiration for me. Like, and I know that the way that he was hustling his books too, when the rejection came or when folks were not trying to honor what was uniquely created by him.
00:40:49
Speaker
Like I said, ain't mad at folks. Like, get it how you live. But when we talk about like having the machine behind you, I'm not going to lie. Like the machine is my people. Like the machine is the community connections, the folks that believe in the work, the folks that um or buying the book you know the folks that are you know I like my car one point was like a distribution center you know what mean so I would be at the gas station so I'm like oh you got them books on you I absolutely do like that's the machine you know um and then also like I said just paying attention all these devastating stories that come up out of the publishing industry of folks who thought they were chosen and then conveniently discarded when it no longer
00:41:29
Speaker
fits the image that the publishing lane wants to uphold. Nah, my work can't just be temperamental. it It just can't. We can take a break if you're ready.
00:41:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:41:48
Speaker
Let's get is into some ways you can support the Hoodoo Plant Mamas. One is through our bookshop where you can buy the books that we previously discussed with our Writing the Spirit guests. We also have a Hoodoo Beginners Guide as well as our top reading picks.
00:42:01
Speaker
We also have our top tarot cards and oracle card deck section. So check that out too. You can also buy Leah's books. On Bookshop, every purchase you make helps support our show. Check us out at bookshop.org slash shop slash Hulu Plant Mamas or hit the link in our show notes.
00:42:20
Speaker
Other ways you can support us include rating and reviewing the podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Instagram at Hulu Plant Mamas. We are no longer on the app formerly known as Twitter.
00:42:35
Speaker
So yeah.
00:42:38
Speaker
You can also check out our Patreon where we share exclusive video plant and spiritual content for only $3 a month. If you prefer a one-time donation, you can donate via cash app, cash tag, who do plant mamas or our PayPal who do plant mamas at gmail.com. Let's get back to the show.
00:43:00
Speaker
just So in the second half, we wanted to talk about how you have taken like this creative process as a writer and kind of expanded it.
Julia's Journey with Reiki as Healing
00:43:11
Speaker
Cause you have a lot of titles. You're an author, you're a collage artist, a filmmaker, poet a poet, facilitator, a grief worker. You're a small business owner with 1006.
00:43:23
Speaker
And you're also Reiki practitioner. And I'm very interested in Reiki. I don't know a lot about it. So I was wondering if you could talk about your journey into Reiki as well as walk us through what a session looks like.
00:43:36
Speaker
So I had always... And when I say always, I mean, there was a ah period in my life where I had heard the term and I just was not as familiar. And one of of the people that I really knew that practiced it locally was a white woman. And was like, oh, OK, that's interesting.
00:43:54
Speaker
Never really thought much about it, to be honest. And then in 2018, I went to an event, an event for women of the African diaspora that was They had used Howard Law's space. I think it was like maybe over the summer break or something. So no one wasn't necessarily in the space.
00:44:10
Speaker
And there were like all these different little sessions. And then one of the one of the things you can... go take a um take part in, people were offering, there was two Black women, they were offering many Reiki sessions.
00:44:24
Speaker
And I was like, you know what? I'm going to go try that today. So I didn't have my first Reiki session until 2018. And it was from an Afro-Columbia woman named Maria. I'll never forget her.
00:44:38
Speaker
it just changed something in me. Just the experience, just I felt like all this energy was just... being transmuted in my body and the things, the visions that I was seeing and the colors, I just was like, I want to experience this again. Like, I want to learn more about this.
00:44:56
Speaker
And also just the feeling of ease that I felt in my body. And at that point, i was a year out from from the death of my son. And I was like, wow, like what if he could be a healing tool for me for grief that can help like soothe my nervous system.
00:45:12
Speaker
And so when I came back home, you know, a little bit of time had passed and i was like, wait, I think there's a black woman that I know locally that had a metaphysics shop. And at that time i was also working on my book, Breathe about meditation, a children's book about a little boy that meditates with his dad. And I can't remember if she contacted me because she heard about the book or if I contacted her because I knew that she was like a black person that was into metaphysics and meditation.
00:45:38
Speaker
But anywho, long story short, we met up at some point in October, 2018. And i found out that she, like she was a Reiki master. And i asked her if she would be willing to attune me so that I could then practice Reiki too.
00:45:53
Speaker
I was really interested in using it as a as a tool to continue to heal myself through grief, but also maybe offer it to other folks. that needed it. So I've been practicing Reiki since the fall, late fall of 2018.
00:46:08
Speaker
So that's how I initially arrive um to that space. And for people that don't really know what it is, I'm still... kind of learning or trying to understand, but can you walk us through what it is and how how a session might look
What Happens in a Reiki Session?
00:46:24
Speaker
like?
00:46:24
Speaker
So walking folks through what a session is like for Reiki, around 2019, I had reached out to this Black woman folk herbalist, and then I found out that she also was an energy worker or a Reiki practitioner.
00:46:38
Speaker
And so me and my son of another, we went to visit her in another city to get you know, to get treatments. And I learned a lot from her technique.
00:46:49
Speaker
Her name is Des. And I think my practice is also informed to be quite frank with y'all. So Reiki is using light touch to transmute energy in the body.
00:47:01
Speaker
Some folks don't like actually touch the person that is getting Reiki session. For me, I do touch, I am like a hands-on, but I will say that I also believe that my approach to the work is out of a tradition of Black hand healers.
00:47:20
Speaker
So that's why sometimes I say I'm a very key practitioner for sure, because I also think that's what people recognize. I think people who recognize that terminology and that is how I arrive, you know, to this work. But I know that hand healing is something that is in a lot of cultures, particularly the Black culture. And so I consider myself to be a Black hand healer.
00:47:43
Speaker
When folks come to me for a session, have like a little form that I send people. I like to kind of know why people want to come. And when people come, we talk about like, we kind of like a little session in the beginning, you know, trying to figure out how I can add my intention to theirs during our session.
00:48:02
Speaker
And after that process, I use, um people usually, i have a like a massage table and people lay on that table. face up, like they lay on their back. And then obviously if people have other types of physical abilities, we can do things in an alternative fashion as well, just um just so that people are comfortable.
00:48:22
Speaker
And I usually start at the top of the head and I make my way across the body. You you remain fully clothed. ask people take off their shoes. I intuitively apply light touch ah on a top of the clothing.
00:48:36
Speaker
And I make my way from the top of the head down to the bottom of the feet. I will play for some of my clients. I do curate like a special playlist, depending on maybe what like I know about why they're coming.
00:48:49
Speaker
And I will play like instrumentun ah instrumental music. Sometimes I might also do like a little bit of aromatherapy, like have some sort of fragrance or something going, but not always. And then the session takes roughly about, for me, about 30 minutes when I actually start.
00:49:06
Speaker
But a full session, people usually come in. It's usually about an hour for the session. 90% of everybody that has come to see me so far, they usually at a bare minimum, they enter into a deep meditative state. And if not, they just outright like fall asleep.
00:49:20
Speaker
Like they kind of are so relaxed that they they fall asleep. All different things come up. Sometimes it's memory. Sometimes it's just color. Sometimes it's visions. Sometimes it's just a state of tranquility that maybe unlocks some things for folks.
00:49:36
Speaker
I will say, i also have people come... that have physical pain. So people come sometimes because they might have psychic pain or being spiritual, you know, like social, like emotional crisis or, um but sometimes people literally just have physical pain, right? Like I have somebody that came and they injured their knee.
00:49:56
Speaker
I have clients that might have different things going on and they feel their body just feels, I've heard their body just feels so much better after they come for a session. Yeah, I love that.
00:50:08
Speaker
I like the mention of like hand healing because that's something that if you grew up in church, especially a black church that you witnessed, even when people get the spirit or catch the Holy Ghost, someone will be behind them, hope touching them or holding them.
00:50:27
Speaker
Sometimes a person will just be standing there crying and a group of women. Sometimes it's ushers come, but also other older women in the church come and get in a circle and everybody's touching the person.
00:50:40
Speaker
Sometimes, and some people are praying, some people are crying with them, that kind of thing. And so that's just such a good point. And it's something that, yeah, it's something I'd be thinking about.
00:50:53
Speaker
We would love to hear about sort of how 1006 came to be, which is basically like this community space where that vision was born out of and why it's important, especially for your community.
Establishing 1006: A Space for Black Cultural Events
00:51:06
Speaker
And I mean, your community within proximity to you, because from what I can see, there's a lot of like, just like the programming and stuff seems to be centered on that space, on people in that area, which I think is really important.
00:51:21
Speaker
because a lot of these sort of, what do they call them, third spaces, they don't really exist the way they used to back in the day, especially for Black people, especially for young people.
00:51:32
Speaker
So yeah, I'm really interested in sort of the vision behind that. Before I go into that, i do just want to mention, i also, for my um approach to Reiki to a really formative text for me is Tony Caban Bars, The Salt Eaters, and just the experience that...
00:51:48
Speaker
you know, that the healer has, has trying to heal Velma. And it is something I always, you know, reference that book a lot of times when people come, like I try to like, I'm a very like practical person too.
00:52:02
Speaker
So I tried to bring in practical tools, you know, that for folks and, and reference things too, to just just let people know, like, you're not the first person in the world that has experienced this. Like there is,
00:52:15
Speaker
you know, y'all, we all kind of have these things that we're going through. So I just wanted to to shout out that book because I'm always referencing it in sessions or, you know, when I'm talking about it.
00:52:27
Speaker
But 1006, oh Lord. So 1006 is, I've been, I've described this so many different ways.
00:52:39
Speaker
The way that I even knew about the space physically is because one of my closest friends, had operated a clothing boutique out of the space for like a decade and some change.
00:52:52
Speaker
And she had been wrestling with over the years, like, okay, I think I'm ready to let it go. No, I'm not ready to let it go. I think I'm ready to let it go. i'm not ready to let it go. And... and It got to a point where it was like, okay, yes, this is absolutely a decision that is happening. And I don't know, for whatever reason, I found myself saying to her, just kind of came out of nowhere. I was like, I think I might be interested in doing something in this space.
00:53:21
Speaker
And my friend has opened her doors to me, other community members to do things in their... the whole time she's been open. So it was not like I never had access to the space because I have done some events in there.
00:53:33
Speaker
But for some reason, something just was on my spirit. And before I knew it, I had said, hey, girl, I might be interested, you know, if this other situation doesn't work out. And I said that to her in like maybe a week or so. She was like, yeah, but the other thing is not going work out. So what you trying to do?
00:53:48
Speaker
And I was like, uh, how soon do you need to know? Because I was like, I was talking all of that. And then i was just like, oh, i don't know about this. Then I ran the numbers and I just felt like financially, I was like, I think I could figure this out.
00:54:03
Speaker
Like I will be willing to so take the risk to do this, um to be in this space. So like 1006, the interesting thing is like a storefront, right? So in that way, it's really funny because I think even like...
00:54:21
Speaker
Culturally, it's like, sometimes it's like, it feels like like ah old school, like storefront church. oh You know, it also is like, you know, it feels like a used Black bookstore.
00:54:35
Speaker
You know, it feels like a lot of different things depending on what we're doing in this space. It's not even a terribly large space. But I was okay with that because I felt like I wanted a space to try out these ideas. I wanted a space to just say, hey, does community want to come here on a regular basis and do um Black events, things that center Black culture, like collective learning, curiosity, and creativity?
00:54:59
Speaker
But I also wanted it to be multi-generational. Um, because that's been like, I would say as a, as a baby poet, you know, that's post black arts movement. I learned a lot from elder black poets.
00:55:13
Speaker
And I just thought that it would be really nice to have a space to where young people, medium, middle-aged people like myself, and then, you know, elders could come together and,
00:55:24
Speaker
and learn and teach each other. So that's how 1006 came to be. We are like, I guess technically entering into the, we've been in the space for a full year. So we technically are entering into like our second year.
00:55:37
Speaker
I think it's how you kind of do the the math. I live in a chocolate city. I live in Harrisburg. We, I call us a little chocolate city that tries. And I think for the number of Black folks and brown folks that we have in the city, i wanted a place that you can at least walk by the window and always see something black.
00:56:00
Speaker
Like walk by the window and always see some sort of black culture that is represented, right? Like we don't have like an African-American museum. There's not even, I mean, to be quite frank, there is not a, like, you know, of course black folks, we take culture wherever we go, right? So I'm not saying that it's just combined confined to a building or an institution, but hell, when everybody else got buildings and institutions,
00:56:24
Speaker
but Like, you know, it is nice to just see our culture on display. It's nice to just be like, oh, wow. Like, you know, look at this first print edition of this Black book.
00:56:35
Speaker
To me, it's just nice to be able to do that in the space. We're also like a micro art gallery, right? So I have like featured artists sometimes. And so I'm trying to expand that that offering more. Like I like to have more like artists that are featured that we can have a pipeline to be able to move their work out into the world.
00:56:52
Speaker
We've done creative workshops. I want to, you know, continue that. It's just the reality is I recognize the limitations of trying to do everything and I know that I can't obviously do everything at once whatever I give my attention it grows but I can't give everything my equal attention all the time so I hope that more people will want to connect to and try out their things in the space and want to collaborate or sometimes just like use the space like not even just having to collaborate like oh 10 or 6 as a have a stamp or have any input in this but just people want to try out things in the space
00:57:30
Speaker
So that's a little bit how we get to 1006. I believe I'm committed at least through the end of this year. And then we'll see. You know, I put out the 2025 Black Mermaids calendar and it's like leaving space for the manifestation of miracles.
00:57:42
Speaker
And I don't just say these things. Like, I really believe them. Like, you have to put yourself on. You have to build the things that you want to see in the world. I think it's so easy to always be like, oh, we ain't got this. We ain't got that.
00:57:55
Speaker
I mean, who's supposed to come along and do it? Like who's supposed to come along and create the things that you want to see? So even in my own way, if I'm saying that I would like to see more Black cultural events that are just not rooted in nightlife, then who else is going to come and do it?
00:58:10
Speaker
This is just my attempt at trying it out and seeing what sticks or even how it introduces a vision for what is possible. So whether it happens at 10.06 or it happens outside of those doors, it is just trying to show that the work I think is important.
00:58:27
Speaker
And our latest offering, which I just, it's called Soul Salon. And it's taking two Black icons that have the same birthday. And we put their work side by side in the room and just kind of see what type of engagement, um interactivity and conversation happens when um when, you know, when that work is in the space. So the first one was Audre Lorde and Toni Morrison, who share a birthday. And then,
00:58:54
Speaker
We're going to be doing one for Tony K. Bambara and Aretha Franklin, who also share a birthday. So I'm really excited about that one because Aretha Franklin is was a very private person.
00:59:06
Speaker
Like she was not a yapper. I think mostly the way that we're going to continue to know her is through her music, right? But it'll be interesting to see how people bring their own feelings about Aretha. um I know my audience, the folks that are becoming a 1006, they will know Tony K. Bambara.
00:59:24
Speaker
a lot less than they know Aretha Franklin. So I'm excited to also introduce Tony Cabanbarra to, to, you know, to more folks as well. And then really excited for Mays because um May 19th, Lorraine Hansberry Malcolm X share birthday.
00:59:41
Speaker
And so it's going to be, it'll be Malcolm X's a hundredth birthday. So I'm sure, you know, we're we'll have, we're going to do something the whole day to commemorate that occasion.
00:59:51
Speaker
And then, you know, put in Lorraine Hansberry and Malcolm X's work in creative life, you know, both of them died, you know, tragically very young in their thirties.
01:00:03
Speaker
So, It is going to be interesting to even just see, you know, like, damn, like Black genius, like, you know, but how it continues to also connect with us and and build our lives across space and time. So, 1006 is the physical, like, all these ideas that I have that just can't live on the internet.
The Role of Physical Spaces in Cultural Exchange
01:00:22
Speaker
Some stuff, I just want to be in the room with people. Just a small thing about taking initiative, because, yes, that's one of my pet peeves about the internet.
01:00:34
Speaker
And people who always jumping in the comments or saying stuff about like black people don't do this or we don't have this. And why do they get to have this? But we don't.
01:00:44
Speaker
And it's like sometimes it's OK to like say this is something I want to see. What what might it look like for me to create this thing? And where can I find support? Because it's not easy. like There's stuff that I want to see. And I'm like, I don't have the resources to do that.
01:01:02
Speaker
So I'm to wait. Somebody probably doing it or somebody probably going to do it. But like, I feel like there's always critiques specifically of the community within the community about what people not doing.
01:01:13
Speaker
And sometimes it's like you just not paying attention is the other thing. Because a lot of people do decide, like having that community space is so important. And I would love something like that. and I do think it's important. And I do think we don't have a lot of those spaces for a lot of reasons. They pricing out people.
01:01:31
Speaker
they pricing out businesses even here in Durham that have been here decades. I've seen stuff like about people having to close. So it's like, there's limitations, but like, how can we, one thing that's been coming up a lot for me is like, what does the past have to teach us? Because we are going through like another, shout out to my grandma.
01:01:55
Speaker
She don't even be knowing. Basically we're going through another cycle of like this sort of, attempt to repress progress. So much change is happening and it was in its ha it's been happening so rapidly, rapidly um especially for Black folks and queer folks and that kind of thing. Then now there's no another rise to this, like, we got to crush this, just like they did when folks, when slavery was emancipated, just like they did when Black people finally started getting
01:02:27
Speaker
these yeses from the courts to give them the right to vote and the right to like not be discriminated on jobs. So like, what were they doing? Because they was working against a lot.
01:02:39
Speaker
Not saying we not, but I, I really try to remind myself the conditions in which are ancestors and these, and a lot of these people that we look up to, they was working under some conditions that we not at this time.
01:02:55
Speaker
Like, FBI following and harassing regular citizens. and I mean, they doing it now slowly, but it was just a lot of things happening that right now we're at a place where it's like we got some flexibility to really figure out strategies that are like relevant for today, but pull from the past, if that makes sense. And so That's what that brought up for me.
01:03:21
Speaker
Again, here I go, me and my tangents that ain't got nothing to do with anything, but yeah, that's all. It's all connected for sure. And I mean, to your point, I mean, that's exactly one of the things that I'm also you know hoping that we do at 1006.
01:03:36
Speaker
is where is the collective learning? couple of things I want to say. One, i think a lot of folks are very well-intentioned and good people when they're out here trying to respond to these times, like especially in a city like mine that is economically depressed, really doing the best that they can.
01:03:53
Speaker
But also, is there additional opportunities for us to really understand how we arrive in these conditions? And that's some of the work that I'm trying to do at 1006, like for the collective learning. You know, um the study, the the study circle that I'm trying to grow is called Subject to Change. And we use a variety of materials to talk about the main topics and things that are affecting our lives today.
01:04:17
Speaker
So yesterday was kicked off using this film. and you know And the film is talking about imperialism, fascism, you know dissent, all those big words that have everyday consequences for for us.
01:04:30
Speaker
And I thought it would be easier instead of just reading a book or a text, it would be easier to just watch it on a film right with some historical context. Because when you when we watched the film, it was like, oh my gosh, it was just weird like literally seeing the same type of signs that people have outside in protest today.
01:04:50
Speaker
So i think it's all of that is absolutely relevant when it comes to critique and people were like ain't nobody doing this. I will say the Internet, you know, Internet obviously has this good with its bad.
01:05:01
Speaker
And that is one of the bad parts of it, that people who would not even be. in the field who don't even care about certain things too, can just find things and just say, oh, this is bad. You haven't even read it. You haven't even touched it. You haven't even looked at it.
01:05:16
Speaker
Or you didn't even care about it before. And now in the internet, and I'm guilty of that too. And I do like lot times I reclaim my attention span because I'm like, girl, did you care about this before?
01:05:28
Speaker
You didn't. Why do you have an opinion about it now? Just because it's in your face, you don't have to comment. But the other side about it is we do be like, oh, nobody's doing X's. You know, and and as a person who is um very much into Black independent cinema, people are always like, oh, there ain't no Black movies only do this. And it's just like, child, do you, Black filmmakers out here making all types of movies.
01:05:51
Speaker
And then studying the history, I'm like, Black filmmakers, been making all types of movies like this ain't nothing new like black folks been pushing the envelope and making all different types of stylistic films but because we don't immediately see them or have access to them we think it does not exist so yeah I think all of that absolutely ties into the work that's trying to happen at 1006 like that's why the tangible touch it and Come and be in a space to be like, sure, complain, critique, but let's also do it in community so we remember how to talk to each other.
01:06:27
Speaker
i don't mind a good debate. I don't mind a good argument. I don't mind, you know, pulling out the the words and the quotes and the, like, I don't mind that, but I do not enjoy doing it online.
01:06:39
Speaker
And I had to remind myself that. It's like, oh, no, I have tons of things to say. But do I Sometimes I'm like, you typing it. I mean, I know this person. Now I'm going too hard. um You know, it's just too much. And I just like, oh, no, I want to be in a room with people.
01:06:54
Speaker
So I could realize when I see in your eyes that there's understanding. don't got to keep going in. Or when I see that you just never going care. I don't have to keep going in.
01:07:05
Speaker
Like, you know, just... Just bringing back that way of engaging with each other and also what it's like to talk. Like what about me say? Talk to me like you got some sense, right?
01:07:15
Speaker
Because we also know you watch the way people talk to each other, the way they would never talk to people if they were in person. <unk>s Like y'all. be talking wild just because why we not in the same room and that's just like y'all let's let's dial it back a little bit losing the plot this reminds me when you danny you were like some people need to be whooped
01:07:42
Speaker
no listen growing up in the south you know the kids picking up guns now but like You know, back in the day, people used to just go out in the front yard and fight until ah Big Mama came out and told everybody to sit down and get cursed out or whatever. But sometimes you needed that. We sit down and everybody talk about it. You know what I mean? Because...
01:08:05
Speaker
A lot of people I really do. I know it's problematic, but I'm just like, some of y'all, this whole getting on the internet and saying the most outrageous, hateful thing that you would never have the guts to say to people, just hateful.
01:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, you just don't know what it's like. It also tells me that I feel like maybe you never really say those things I've never tried out saying those things because they just say those things and never know what it's like for somebody to kind of like roll up on you.
01:08:33
Speaker
Like even just the threat of like, oh, no, absolutely not. It shows and I, you know, with this freedom of speech, but like everything costs like. Listen, they ain't got the back. You know, I, you know, I don't support whooping kids for real, but hey.
01:08:48
Speaker
They ain't got the back hand in the mouth before. And I just got to say, it's made something of a difference for me. OK, I be watching what I'm saying because it's been many a times i got too cute with my mama and my grandma. And before I knew it, it's so fast. So it happens so fast. And that's what I think some people need.
01:09:07
Speaker
Adults, not children. But I'm saying it did make a difference for me because I watch what I say to people.
01:09:14
Speaker
I just was raised in a way that like, ah my mama was real old school Southern and like you just, even respectfully, you just don't question, right? Which is not good. But my dad was more like, oh, you can say what you want to say, but you have to say it respectful. So I think I always learned too, like you said, watch what you have to say. And then as I got older, I was like, also talk to people like you got good sense.
01:09:38
Speaker
Like also make good sense when you talk to people. And so that's what also learned. But it like definitely been with kids and growing up, you knew you can't just be saying any old thing. Um, folk don't play that.
01:09:55
Speaker
So whether even if it's just a social consequence of people don't want to be around you because you're not kind or, you know, like on on the highbrow end, it's just like, oh, you're me. We don't want to hang with you. So the other end is like, yeah.
01:10:10
Speaker
Yeah, but you won't say that again, you know, type of energy. This is our last question.
Creativity as a Tool for Survival and Problem-Solving
01:10:16
Speaker
And there was this talk that I saw Toni Morrison did.
01:10:22
Speaker
i don't remember where or when it was, but I do remember her saying that poor people are creative because they have to be. and it reminded me of like when me and Dani, we've talked a lot about what it's like growing up in Mississippi And how you have to dream and you have to be imaginative and you have to be creative and resourceful to just survive because our government hates us. Right. But I think about the time we live in now and a lot of people who talk about being stuck.
01:10:52
Speaker
But like Toni Morrison said, creativity is the answer and it will require our dreaming and our resourcefulness. just to survive right now. So this is an open-ended question for both y'all.
01:11:04
Speaker
Is there anything that you want to say about the necessity of creativity in today's world beyond just what we think about as creativity? So I love the framing, the way that you opened up the question, because one of my biggest pet peeves is how people always make it seem like when you're poor, that you ain't thinking about nothing else.
01:11:26
Speaker
It's just all survival when you can't be creative and you're not thinking about creativity because you only thinking about your immediate needs. And I think that just kind of creates this idea of who gets to be creative and then also who gets to be be rewarded for their creativity.
01:11:43
Speaker
And then how do we also place value on people's creativity when it gets to be seen as kind of this, um, very self-indulgent reality versus it was done out a survival.
01:11:58
Speaker
And so I have a, I always have a problem with that. I'm like, I just, like I mean, and I get it. Everybody's talking about how it is rough sometimes getting to our creative projects because we have like jobs and all these other things that are stressing us out, but that doesn't mean that we're not creative, right?
01:12:12
Speaker
We are absolutely thinking about our creativity. We just maybe can't bring it all through at the same time or in this season. And as a means, it doesn't exist. So to me, the creative necessity, it opens up our world.
01:12:25
Speaker
Right? Like when I'm being, like when I'm in peak creative mode, I think it also is just like, I'm better at problem solving. I just feel like I'm better at life. So I think any opportunity that gets adults to be able to tap into that. That's why like, even like from a real practical everyday way, I've noticed there's certain events that have like got really popular. Like people like to do the wine and sips and things like that because they want, they want unlock their creativity. They want to be able to do something, even if it's not a consistent hobby or a career for them, people want to touch the material.
01:13:00
Speaker
And I think that that's why it's so important for us to have those everyday ways to do it. That's why I'm trying to do what I'm doing at 1006, just to remind people even creative power.
01:13:12
Speaker
Again, even if people are not making a career out of a particular type of creativity, but we literally need creativity for everything, right? And I think that is why we also notice when people, you know, like what Tony Moore said, something like, you know, like evil is so easy.
01:13:29
Speaker
Right. Evil was so easy. That's why even I think when parents are disciplining kids, it's so easy to sometimes just hit the kid and not have to like go through um they all the things that it requires to get the kid to understand without physical punishment. Right.
01:13:45
Speaker
So creativity is the thing that really, I think, unlocks our fullest potential. um And people are bringing that whether they cooking food, whether they doing hair, whether they trying to figure out how not to cuss people out, or they're trying to figure out how to cuss people out.
01:14:03
Speaker
There's all these different creativity, like we just need it. Oh, and what Maya Angelou said, you can't use it up. Like it ain't a thing that can be used up. It just, we keep generating it when we get to tap into it.
01:14:17
Speaker
And I think even when people are not doing like art, like with a capital A, you know, I think that's the difference between, like I was opening up saying like this, this between making art and making a life.
01:14:29
Speaker
And I think our creative necessity is really what determines if we actually have made a life. I love that. And I wanted to add super short, because I know we running up on the time, but One thing that I always, and i'm I'm sure, I know other people have said this, I'm pretty sure Toni Morrison has said this a lot, like the oppressor, the people that seek to oppress us, they so unimaginative.
01:14:54
Speaker
There's nothing creative about what they do. It's very kind of what you said. Evil is easy. It's boring, to be honest. So one thing that I always think about with creativity is us making it a point to be more creative than our oppressor.
01:15:12
Speaker
And we can. It's not that hard to be. And I have to tell myself that because sometimes I get into the mode where I'm like, I feel hateful. I feel rage. And I feel like I want bad things to happen to these people.
01:15:27
Speaker
Sometimes the people that ain't even oppressing me, people who are just like feeding into it, who will ultimately be hurt alongside me. It's like, it's not to say like, oh, they don't deserve it. I still feel like they do deserve it.
01:15:41
Speaker
But every, you know, some people can be redeemed and like there is nothing useful or creative or imaginative about me wishing harm on these people or me going out of my way to harm these people if I don't have to.
01:15:59
Speaker
So, yeah, just thinking about that in the context of my living, how can my creativity really sort of resist and not in like the whole everything about it is about resisting a man but no how can my creativity in the life I live really like be a repellent to so the repression that is trying to crush me. For me, my final thoughts, thank you, Julia, for coming. It is so great to speak with you again.
01:16:26
Speaker
i love talking with y'all. Thank you for having me, truly. Yes, thank you so much for speaking with us. Thank you so much for, like, always being open to, like, support us and even support me when I be jumping into your DMs with me and my drama with, oh, I can't write, whatever.
01:16:44
Speaker
it means a lot because it it just means a lot to, to have people that i to process this with. Cause you know, I got, I got, um I got my friends. I got my, you know, my close, close, close friends.
01:16:55
Speaker
They don't care about this. Like they support me, but like, girl, we don't know what you talking about, but we don't read it or we don't, we don't share it or whatever. But you know, so it's really nice to have just like an eclectic community of folks and friends that I can just go to and say like,
01:17:14
Speaker
I really need to process this with somebody. um And so I really appreciate you for being that support system for me and just like, yeah, and being in community with us. It's, you know, we met so many people because this podcast. And so it's just really been a blessing.
01:17:31
Speaker
Yeah. So that's my final thoughts. I don't know. I always just love talking to y'all. I think I'm always going to champion Black folks. taken responsibility for their creative urges.
01:17:46
Speaker
And I love being in community and connection with y'all. It's been incredible to witness y'all continued evolution. um And I just love everything that the podcast represents.
01:17:57
Speaker
And so thank y'all for considering me to be a valued member of y'all community. I really appreciate it. So if you like this episode, you can like, rate, and review Hoodoo Plant Mamas on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
01:18:13
Speaker
If anything from the show resonated with you, make sure to share it with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at Hoodoo Plant Mamas. Thank you for listening and we'll see you in the next episode. Bye. Bye.